Generating £ Millions Online at 18 Starting from Zero - Franco Crean | Midnight Podcast Episode 32

Right. Then back with episode 31, I think of the midnight pod. I just said I wouldn't put an episode number on it, but I do it up habit every time. We've got Franco Crean, who is the youngest guest we've ever had on the fucking pod at 18 years old. But he's got an interesting story. And I actually went on Franco's pod, the 44 pod. What, like a month, maybe over a month ago?

Yeah, like around a month ago.

It's very therapeutic, just sitting there talking about, like fucking life on the other end. And hopefully that's what you can do today.

It was a deep combo.

It was very deep combo.

We went in.

I was in like an emotional state at the time about a few things, so I just let it all rip on that fucking pod. But I think it was good to fill that five year gap prior to the shit I started talking about in the pod.

You do like a lot of podcasts. I know you've been on. I remember that was on.

I've only ever been on. I've been asked to go on a load. Well, I say a load like three or four recently off Twitter, but they're all like the classic zoom ones where it's like some cunning America who wants to just. I went on two previously, like years ago, one like four years ago, one two years ago. And then nothing. Nothing else.

I can't lie, Podcasting is just. It's just fun. I really enjoy it.

It is fun. Yeah. It's always just therapeutic and shit. But I guess, as usual, I don't do any fucking research on my guests and I have an idea of, like, their background and like, what they do and their credibility and shit. But yeah, I'm gonna fucking wing it and just learn a lot about you today, I suppose, and your story. But first question, as always, is just who are you? What do you do? And I guess for you there's probably. Well, there's certainly less. Well, it depends when you started your shit. But being young doesn't necessarily mean you're inexperienced. And I think that's a misperception a lot of people have online in like the Twitter sphere and shit.

And Yes.

I mean, I didn't even start at E. Comm when I was your age. So that's.

Yeah, that's the interesting thing is obviously I'm 18 now, right. I first like made a Shopify store in like 2017. So yeah, that was like ages ago, right. I was like. I think I was 14. Like, if. I mean, obviously ages ago. I don't know, four years. So if you. If I mean, to me, it feels like that's probably enough time to, I guess, I don't know, fail enough to deserve to win. Like, I guess on my sort of time, like, that's it. Like, I just feel. I don't feel like it's like, oh, you know, I got Shopify worker when I was mad young. Nice. Because I just started when I was, like, very young. And then, you know me, I was consistent enough, I guess, to get it to work like, two years later, which you probably expect.

And was that always like, drop shipping then?

Yeah, literally drop shipping. And I guess, yeah, introduce myself. Who am I?

Yeah, go right back to the start. And I think it's always useful to go, like, chronologically.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Just kind of bring us up to date and then we can dive into.

Loads of shit, pretty much. My name is Franco. I'm 18 years old. I live in London. This is actually, like. I think I move out in, like, five days, so.

Moving to Argentina.

Yeah, man, Argentina. It's interesting, but, yeah, okay. Pretty much I've been doing, like, drop shipping e commerce, literally since again, like, 2017. So for quite a while. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've pretty much done every business model that there is, honestly. Like, obviously I tried the whole, like, trading thing. I tried, you know, I mean, this and that. I used to depop drop shipping. Like, I used to do drop shipping on ebay or when I was like, 13, 14 to like, try and just get money here and there because, like, there's no ad spend on their platforms.

Right.

So it would. It was just easy. I was making, like, I don't know, 1 to 2k profit, like, a month in school. I was like, high school and stuff, like, on the site. Like, I've never really, like, worked a job. I've always tried to do things online. I always tried to, like, find a way. I guess that's pretty much what I did in terms of that. But, yeah, so been doing drop shipping, I guess, for. For quite a while. Got it to work March, like, it was like, March, April 2020 time. So, yeah, I guess literally just start, like, the lockdown pretty much. I remember, like, what, a month into, like, the actual lockdown?

Yeah, it was a boom for a lot of people.

I don't know. Yeah, literally. And I was kind of like, obviously, yeah, it was like a lockdown is a lot going on, but, like, I was just kind of happy to just not be at school anymore, you know, this is before, like, I left school. Right?

Yeah.

And I was just happy to just not be at school. So I literally had time to, like, focus through all that. And actually, what's interesting is a month or two before the lockdown, I had my first agency client. Because I run, like a marketing agent, Right. Kind of like, I'd say more on the side.

Do you?

Yeah, man.

I have an issue and there's a lot of things going on, honestly.

But I have like an agency, so it's just like Facebook ads, right? Yeah, like, too, too crazy. But I had my every man and.

Their dog is an agency these days.

Yeah, honestly. But that's what I mean. I've started it again because it's one of them things where you don't really need to invest that money because I didn't have much money. Right. So I just. Yeah, I mean, I got my first client, then it was a 2.5k retainer, and I pretty much had, like, no Facebook ad experience anyway. Like, I had like 400, 500 pounds, like, just with like, stores that never worked, like, experience, I guess. But the client took a risk on me and gave me pretty nice retainer. And then, yeah, I kind of learned Facebook ads from, like, using their ad account, I guess.

Yeah.

To be fair, I got them good results. But obviously, like, it was, you know, regardless of money, like, I learned a lot from it. And that was, you know, I attribute a lot to that because, I mean, that's. That's the reason why I started the agency as well. So I can sort of, like, practice on other people's money, I guess. Yeah, and it worked out. But, yeah, that's. That's pretty much it. And obviously, yeah, drop shipping full time since 2020 April, which is when I had like, my first, like, winning product. Winning products.

Yeah, I remember those days.

This is the thing, man, because you did dropshipping, when was it?

I guess peak would have been like 2016, 17. 18.

Yes. Man, that's like, when I only first heard about it.

Yeah, it's mad. So, like going back to when you're 14 then, I mean, fucking sounds even silly saying like, 14, because I wasn't even. I, like, thought I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I never did anything like actually online till I was like, 18. But how did you, like, what was the trigger to what was the first thing you did? Because obviously you mentioned agency dropshipping.

Yeah, yeah.

Ebay.

Yeah, I mean, I did a lot, but I guess at the start it was more like unsophisticated stuff, trying to just get Something to work, you know, Know. So I guess, yeah, it pretty much started, I guess, the whole, like, online thing, sneaker reselling, you know, it's very standard. I literally, like the whole, like, easy trend. I was, what, like, 13, 14, when it was sort of like, popping off, maybe even actually 15. It was that sort of, like, timeline, I guess. But that's where I, like, start to get, you know, some sort of funds. And obviously, I only did it because, I don't know, I was in school. I wanted to, you know, get some money. I. Here's the thing. I always felt so, like, I just despised, like, asking my parents for, like, money just to get something. I was like, why am I, like, to get, like, some clothes or something? It's like. It's pointless. And obviously, like, I just wanted to just get my own money. So I also didn't, like, question what I buy, you know, so I could just do whatever I want to do with my money. So I guess that's why I kind of got started. And then, you know, it sort of opened up the whole world of entrepreneurship, I guess, going from there. And then, you know, obviously I kind of wanted to just get more and more money, pretty much. And you got to go in London? No, man. No, I actually. So I'm from, like, a village which is kind of, like, I say, like, near Birmingham. It's like 30, 40 minutes away from Birmingham, but, I mean, we went to a village there.

But you're originally from Argentina, right? Am I making that up?

No, you make it up. So pretty much my family. My family is. I'm half Argentinian.

Yeah.

Yeah, my mom's from Argentina. Yeah.

Okay, cool. So you're 14, doing online shit like, is. Because the question I always get is, like, how do you meet people that are doing similar shit? And, like, where does that come from? I assume were you, like, the only person at school was interested in that shit or what, to be fair?

Yeah. Especially, like, the whole shop. I think obviously there's. I think there's, like, one, maybe two people doing, like, C3.7, but nothing really properly. I'd say I was always like, the guy like, that's doing it, but. But no one really knew me for it because I didn't really tell anyone what I did, to be honest with you. I kept it very quiet. I don't know. I just never really, like, sort of telling, like, too many people, so got like, three cameras pointed at me now talking about what I do. But I guess back then, I didn't really, like, sort of people not knowing, but I just didn't really want to just. I mean, it's not important. I guess it's sneaky. Resell on the side. It's not big of a deal.

Yeah.

And then the whole Shopify thing. Yeah. So it was just because I. I did so many things that like just pretty much all of them failed, you know, So I didn't really, like. I never really had anything to post about, you know. But yeah, so I guess in terms like actually meeting people, like networking, because I did do like quite a few things to try and like network back then. Like, I think it was when I was 14. So 2017 or 2018, I can't remember. It was that sort of time. I don't know if you've ever been to one of them, but I got an email from Shopify. It's like they did like an event.

Yeah, I've never been to one. I've seen the emails. Never been to one though.

Yeah, I got the email and I went. It was like a free event in Birmingham, right?

Yeah.

And I don't know. Sure was that. This was when. Sure wasn't even like too. Too crazy. Yeah.

Yeah.

But they, they were hosting like a whole thing about it.

Oh, really?

I don't think it was obviously the owners, but it was like performance marketing team, I think.

Yeah.

And yeah, so I literally just went. I was on my own, so I. To be fair, it was even a big thing for my parents to let me go to Birmingham because obviously I was like 14, 15, but I was like, I have to go, you know, like, it looked, it looked really good. So I went. It was a really good event to be fair. And obviously like, everyone's like freaking out. Everyone wanted to speak to me, which was pretty cool. Like everyone.

You were so young.

Yeah, yeah. Because I was baby face man. I got the most babiest faces. So everyone wanted to speak to me and I don't know why. Also, it's so random. It was a free Shopify event, so I don't know how they funded it, but literally I remember after this. I don't know why I remember this, but they ordered like. Like there was a good amount of people there. It wasn't like that packed, but it was like cinema actually. But they ordered like 30 or 40, like pizzas. They ordered just so many pizzas. And then there was just like only like a few people went and ate like there was just like stupid amount of pizzas left out. I don't know why I always remember that. But yeah, Shopify you're wasting your money, man.

Yeah, fucking hell. So when did you. Did you finish school? Like A levels and shit? Because I guess you literally A level age, which is mad. Yeah, that feels like fucking age ago for me.

So, I mean, I didn't do any of it. I did B sex in the end. So I did like football with. With school. Yeah, obviously I went to like high school ever and then back in sort of my area and then I did like football and I wanted. It was actually like a football education program with Aston Villa. So it's pretty good. And pretty much what we get to do is we'd like play a game every Wednesday. We'd, I don't know, like train every day. And then also we do school.

Yo, fellas, quick one. First bit of promo for the pod. You may or may not have heard I released a fucking Ecom course a few months ago. Basically spent like six months making it because I was in between businesses, as you probably know. If you follow my shit, I must say, 12 hours long. It's fucking quality content. I was gonna drop it at like 1500 quid with some bullshit guru y webinar and all that rubbish. But as you know, it's not my main thing. I'm working on a new brand right now. Very, very fucking much in the trenches. Which is why I think is actually a better course than everything else out there. Cause it's built on real experience of my brands in the past and my current one. I think it's super, super valuable. If you're interested in E Comm, you're already in Ecom and you wanted to get into Ecom. 0 to 1. Starting a brand from scratch, then definitely worth investing in. Link is in the bio of this video or podcast. Spotify, Apple Music, wherever the fuck you're listening or watching and enjoy the rest of the pod.

So that was pretty good. So I went to school there. I'd had to get like train like every day, like an hour or whatever to Birmingham to go to school. But it was worth it and whatever. But they were always really lenient with me. The teachers there were really nice. Now I'll touch on a second about what sort of happened in the end because I sort of stopped going to school.

But it was always like, I'm trying to work out.

That's the thing. They would always let me just like. I don't know, just like be late. I'm not to say that. Yeah, whatever. But they would always let me kind of be very lenient.

Right.

And then anyway, lockdown Happened, whatever. I actually made quite a bit of money, you know, through like E Commerce and stuff. And I kind of wanted to do it full time. I got back into school September, I was like, this is not for me, man. And then literally by October time.

When was this? September 20th.

It was right after lockdown, so it was September 2021. 2021? Yeah, I guess.

Oh, shit. Recently?

Like six months ago, I guess. Is it 2021?

I can't remember. Yeah, I can't.

It feels like. I don't know. It feels like quite a while ago now, shortly. 2020.

Yeah, I'd imagine so.

Yeah. 2020. So September 2020, I guess. So I went back into school and then October time. By October, I'd already been like, nah, this is not for me. And then because I'd always. I'd never really wanted to go to school to finish even. I remember like GC level. I was like, oh, I want to drop out. Telling my mom I want to drop out. She was like, you're not dropping out. And then. Yeah, so I was doing like vtex. And then I spoke with my teachers, had a conversation with them. Sort of told them what. What it is that I do. Because again, no one had a clue sort of what I was doing. I actually gave them my product. I guess it was a bribe. I literally gave them because I had like custom packaging.

Help your math sheet. Just start a store. They take.

I swear they literally. They were given like. They were asking me questions like, oh, how do you find like these products? Like, I want to start one. They're starting with these questions and stuff. And then. But yeah, in the end they. They kind of. We reached an agreement, I guess, and I stopped going to school. I didn't have to go to school anymore, but I did end up actually getting grades. I don't know how to do it. Worked out kind of nicely. I didn't really have to do much. I pretty much did like, no work, I guess after the point of me stop going. But we kind of worked out. I don't know, an arrangement. And yeah, I got my grades in the end, but I stopped going to school from October 2021 or 2020, I guess. Yeah.

So when did you make dropshipping work? You said you made a bit of money and shit. Like when was that? Obviously you've been doing this shit since you're like 14.

Yeah.

I keep laughing at. Because this seems so young, but when did you like crack it?

So.

And how did you do that? I suppose.

Okay. Yeah, for sure. So basically I pretty much like, I guess total dropshipping revenue up until my first winner was like, I don't know, probably a thousand, like literally pretty much nothing.

Right.

I never actually had any like success. Never really had any product that sort of clicked at all. Even though this was back in the day when it was supposed to be much easier. But obviously I was just clueless. I didn't. I kind of pretty much went into a self talk other than obviously YouTube. I never really bought any courses, but other than like one that I got scanned with. But yeah, basically, yeah. So like April, like times when I had my first product that worked. Galaxy Projector. Yeah. Bang, man, that was, I mean, I guess I was pretty early to it.

Like actually two of those fucking next door.

Oh God. No surprise, man. You probably pull off me. No, definitely not. But you know what I mean? Like that was when it popped off. So I kind of got on it early. And there's a funny story of actually the ad that I ran. So pretty much obviously. Yeah. So April 2020 time is when my first product works.

Everyone locked inside, interior line, just buying.

From me, I guess. And eventually I went from like. Yeah, the store was like obviously from scratch. So I guess total revenue, I've done like a thousand and then within 20 days I've done a hundred thousand, you know, so it scaled like pretty fast and then literally consistent hundred thousand months for quite a while. And then I started to get other products, you know, running obviously simultaneously. And then since then it's just, I don't know, full time, you know.

And how are you scaling that? Purely Facebook or tick tock or what?

So obviously back then there was no real like TikTok ads, but Facebook ads was huge for me. So I started with Facebook ads scaling up and then Snapchat ads was pretty big as well. And then Google was pretty big as well because I mean we actually sold neon lights. Yeah, I'm sure. You know, Google Ads, I believe we were getting like 20 rowers or 10 rowers. It was, it was insane.

Yeah.

For the neon lights. So yeah.

And did you start with literally like zero money then? Because obviously a lot of people always say, and like I've had so many questions over the years, like how would you even get started in drop shipping? Because like people say you can start with no money, but you can't start with literally no money. So like obviously there's a balance. And then when you're trying to make ads work, you gotta invest a bit of money to get some momentum, get some data, get moving so how did that work for you? Because people always ask me that and I'm like, I don't even remember when I first started running ads back in like 2016.

I mean, I guess obviously I just, like, just before I had a little bit of money from obviously depop drop shipping, if you guys didn't already know, like deepops, like just an app like ebay or something like that, where I list products, like on eBay onto Depop and I just take a cut. So I made probably like, I don't know, a few thousand max. Like for like 4,000. Yeah, I think I had like 3,000 left. And then, yeah, I did like a store or two just before my main winner and had like a thousand left in my bank after that because they didn't work. And then, yeah, so I guess I had like a little bit money. A few thousand from just previous, like drop shipping from platforms, I guess, and where it's organic, you know, I don't need to pay for ads. So I guess that's kind of how I started it. And I used that money to go because I always wanted to get Shopify to work. I always came back to Shopify because I was like, regardless of what I'm doing, deeper. It's not scalable at all because it's.

Literally that sort of shit. It's more like. I don't even call it a business. It's more like a. It's like a hustle or it's like a legal scheme online to just get some bread. Yeah.

When you're like super young. And it was just a little bit of thing. And that's the thing, obviously. I knew for a fact that all the money I made, like I said. I literally said this out loud. Like it was, it was, it was. I was like, I'm literally gonna reinvest everything because obviously I was what, 16? It's like it doesn't really matter legit, you know, Even now I feel like 18. Like, it doesn't really matter. Like, I can just reinvest pretty much most stuff. Like, especially like if it doesn't work out, it's still not that big of a deal. I guess that's kind of how I see things.

Yeah. So how did you. Was it literally you running everything then when shit started to work? Like when you say you found a winner? I always laugh at this shit because, like, I view it as like a meme nowadays when I used to do this shit, like finding winners and shit. Like, were you testing loads of products back then? This is like Nostalgic for me because I used to do this shit. I used to launch like three products a day.

Really?

Yeah. Back at like.

I've never been a MAST Test.

Yeah. A mass test. Is that a term?

I'm cringing, I guess, pretty much. I've met again, I've never been a mass tester. I had probably five, six, seven products max. I've tested until that winner.

Yeah.

I guess every single store that I run, I know for a fact it's gonna like work before it's like.

I guess.

Yeah, there's probably testing, but I'm like very sure, you know, like everything is lining up. It's like literally everything is lining up for it to work. You know, I've analyzed everything and I only run products that other people are making money with right now. I'm not trying to be the first to reinvent the wheel when it comes to drop shipping at least.

Yeah.

You know, because like I have the proof that someone's making money with it. I'm just gonna do better than them and like improve on them.

Yeah. So how long did that last, that product? That's the thing, like back in the day, dropshipping. I got it to like 800 grand a month at one point. Back in the day, Jesus.

But then never been at that level. That's crazy.

I mean it wasn't. The margins weren't that big, but just chasing revenue, to be honest. But I just wanted that big screenshot but would die, you know. Yeah. A month or ad account problems, etc, etc. I'm sure you've had all that. So how long did that work? And then what. What came next?

So. So that one product, the Galaxy Projector, I guess I was running, I said I want product. I also had other products in store. Yeah. It wasn't like. It started off with the guys projector, but then it became a lot more. It was actually, I would say probably as close as you can get to the writing level of drop shipping, like branded thing. Because we had custom packaging. We had very like fast shipping. Like we. Because it's like we had stock in China that I already prepaid for. It was. It was still from China, but it's like they had to source it, you know.

Yeah.

So we had all that. We had custom notes, we had. It was a proper, proper business. But it lasted for a year, I would say maybe a little bit less. So it was a decent amount of time. And we even got like offers to like exit and stuff. Like it built up pretty well to be fair. And the social Media page was huge. Even I remember the one, the main ad that we scaled, it was the TikTok and it got like 50 million views plus. And pretty much like, just because we obviously scale it, like ads even like Snoop Dogg commented and he's like, oh, I copped one, I need like a few more. It's like, I think I honestly, I feel, I feel like that one comment attributed, like, get so many sales, probably because it was like the first thing people saw. And it's literally the most social proof you could need. Snoop Dogg Biden. Yeah.

Verified account. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's mad. So do you spend more on Facebook or TikTok?

What now?

Well, then with that product, there's nothing.

On TikTok because it wasn't. It didn't exist, but it did well. We got beta access to it, so I was super early TikTok ads.

But the ad that got 15 million views, that was.

That was Facebook Instagram, like.

Oh, right, okay.

Instagram feed. So, yeah, so back then it was definitely pretty much the majority stuff was sort of Facebook 100%. And even now, like, I do TikTok ads, definitely. I've sort of got more of a team now who kind of handled that stuff. But Facebook ads still. Still pretty big because obviously, I don't know, people, you know, sort of thinking, get the impression that Facebook is kind of dying out. Yeah, everyone's just obsessed with TikTok right now.

But I'm.

I don't know, I see a little bit through it. I feel like, I don't know, it's obviously Facebook is the most biggest platform in the world, I guess, you know, if you think about. Obviously. Well, I don't know, maybe TikTok's sort of competing now.

Yeah, it's interesting that. So what happened when that died and what happened next in terms of what you started working on?

Yeah, for sure. So I already had like a few products still running, so I guess I had like other stores. I was focusing on all that. Like, I had another one that was doing pretty well, but I guess from then on, you know, I just started focusing on the stores. And also I built my agency to an all right level. I guess it was like doing like 10k a month profit.

Yeah.

At that sort of point because I had like results.

So when you start that then. Because like, fucking hell. All these people doing a billion different things.

Yeah, it gets a little bit overwhelming, especially dropshipping when you've got like so many different products and just stores open. It's like just a headache that's the only thing. But yeah, agency, obviously I started it. I guess I said it so long ago. I remember cold calling when I was like 15, going to like, oh shit. Yeah, this is, this was ages ago. But again, I feel like I've tried everything in the book when it comes to actually getting something to work, but I didn't even make like. I remember I spent the whole summer focusing on it when I was like 15. I was must be in 2019. Wholesome. I focus on my agency. I didn't get a single client. You know, I did so many cold calls. But I was doing it wrong. Like why was I trying to get local businesses? You know, like that's not the way online is actually the future. Right. So yeah, I mean that's the whole of the story. But I guess I have some of those clients, so I kind of see it. I guess. My agency started February 2020, so right before my first winner. And then, you know, I started to get more clients. More clients, more clients and kind of built up and then yeah, I guess between July.

So you've been running basically since you started having success with the online stuff, you've been running the agency and. And your drop shipping stores at the same time?

Yeah, I feel like they go quite like hand in hand.

Yeah. So how about 2021 then? Like pretty much a year after 2021.

Was a pretty big year for me, to be fair.

What was the focus drop shipping wise and agency.

And how did that split?

I'm trying to build the picture.

Yeah. Trying to sort of get an idea. I mean definitely 2021 agency started going a lot more than I guess I thought it would, but mainly, yeah, dropshipping is still like. Dropshipping has always been my bread and butter man. Like, and it still is, you know, Like I've still got a bunch of stores running, but I guess, yeah, like especially kind of back then. Yeah, I mean it's always been a balance. Honestly. Like it literally has always been a balance. There's never been like one too crazy more than the other. Like again, I don't. You don't not. I'm not sending 20, 30 looms a day. You know, I'm not doing all the hours. Like I'm not too crazy. Like I just have like a few core clients which just serve me pretty well. It's like I'm just making them good money and it works out. It's just no brainers. And like again, like if I have a client that I don't like, then it's gone. You know, like, I don't worry about it, but 2021 was a bit of like a crazy year for me. That was when I first like moved out and I started experiencing life, I guess, like going obviously from like just like living in a village to living in like London, the sea.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know, like, I guess people call it a risk moving out like 17, you know, I mean, I don't know. And my parents thought I was crazy when I sort of suggested, you know, But I don't know, I feel like I just wanted to get myself out of my comfort zone and like actually just get it done because I'm going to move like these type of places at some point. I may as well just do it now.

Yeah. So in terms of like scale then, obviously dropshipping, doing way, way more than agency in terms of revenue. Like how did that look in 2021? Like what sort of numbers you pump.

In like 100 months with like obviously my stores. So I guess that's like always been.

Kind of like how many stores? I always laugh people say stores because I, I take the piss out of it now. But we can get on to that shit. But yeah, how many and, and, and why do you have multiple? Because, yeah, I never used to be like that. I. When I was back, I mean, I only did drop shipping focus for like 18 months. Really? 18 months to 2 years when I was traveling and then I got back into like the brand building space.

Two years? Pretty much, yeah.

In terms of like pure AliExpress not trying to build brands with custom products. Yeah, less than two years.

Why did you stop if it was like.

Because it became very unfulfilling. I think I spoke about this in your podcast.

Yeah.

And I was just like, I was getting so many ad account bands and shit. And I know people that are still drop shipping now, but I wonder where like. And they're like much older than you. They're like my age. And I wonder where they going with it though. Cause it's like they're always looking for the next.

And I know what you mean, the.

Next kind of scheme to make it work, to keep having an income rather than compounding their efforts.

I agree. I feel like especially.

But I think at your age, Fucking hell. I mean, I don't want to be ageist because it's obviously more about experience, but I still think. Yeah, I don't think it's like a problem to be fucking drop shipping like when you're 18, but I think people that do it for like 10 years and don't ever progress. That's where it becomes like, the bigger.

Picture is, of course, branding, of course. Because that's just where, you know, the real money's at. Like. Yeah, these hundred thousands. Yeah, that is like real money. Right. But like, obviously you can't exit, you know, a drop shipping store for eight, nine, like, figures. I mean, that's not. Yeah, I mean, God knows if that's happened, but, you know, I mean, like, that's not realistic. So obviously the real money is in branding, in the exit. And I guess for me, yeah, I still do drop shipping, you know, runs it, runs up good money. I make good money from it, you know, and I'm trying to sort of like, you know, reinvest and I guess, you know, do all that, the whole thing, I guess. But the main thing for it is the skills. You know, I learned. I've learned so much from doing it and it's been the biggest, like, learning experience. You literally get paid to learn, I guess when you get it, like, I do agree and I'm sure you wouldn't have been able to like, do that, do all the things that you've done now like, without like, dropshipping. I feel like that's why most people in ecommerce start with drop shipping anyway. Obviously that's not the main reason, but.

Yeah, I think you basically have to. Yeah, like, it's 100 the best way to get started, I think, like, just figuring out, you know, basic. How to set up a website, how to brand something to a basic level, how to market in it. Like. Yeah, if people were put in a room for two years and told to make a drop shipping store, I think they'd be better off than doing most degrees, honestly.

Well, I mean, to be fair to most online, most businesses anyway, for two years, you learn so much.

Yeah.

Probably outweigh a degree.

No, I completely agree. It's like. Yeah, I'm just thinking back to when I did all that shit. I like, tried to have a clothing brand ship. I did have a clothing brand actually, before I got into dropshipping. That was called Dusk, which I tweeted about the other day, which I never really speak about here.

Did you speak about on the podcast. I think I remember you.

That got to like low six figures in revenue and it was like. It was like a clothing brand. It was back when I was like 21, but. And then me and my mate fell out, we had a legal dispute and then I fucking went traveling and going to drop shipping. So I was like, how can I make as much money as possible quickly with Ecom. That was basically the mindset at the time. And then came full circle back to building brands and whatever. But yeah, I think it's the best way people to get started. But I'm always confused how to. I feel like not the best person to answer the question that people always ask me. You probably get all the time as well. You'll get someone. I get DMs saying, like, I want to get into E commerce and people that know fucking nothing because everyone knows nothing when you start. But they're like, I actually had a DM the other day and I fucking answer all my DMs because I feel like it's like God's work or some bullshit. But this guy said, I want to start a brand, but I don't have any money or experience. Like, should I do drop shipping? And I was like, well, you know, it's hard to put myself in that position again. But what would you say to that?

I mean, I mean, obviously if you've.

Got money, how does someone get started and what should they focus on if they've got a thousand quid, you know?

Okay.

In your experience.

So when it comes to like, so because I get a question a lot, it's like, how much do I need to start drop shipping?

Yeah, that's always the question.

Yeah. I guess the way that I see it and the way that I sort of, you know, positioned it myself as well, I was like, okay, I'm not gonna be able to like comfortably be drop shipping, spending money on ads because obviously that's how you're gonna get. Well, okay, there's. There's two things actually. This is made me realize, but obviously, okay, we're talking paid. I'm not going to be comfortably be able to test products consistently and like, actually, you know, take one L and be able to straight away jump and make a new store and start testing the product. You won't be able to do that comfortably unless you have, in my opinion, £2,000.

Yeah, I agreed.

I would say because I feel like testing product wise, you can probably dropshipping wise, you can work out for products, you can get an idea if the product's gonna work or not. Within around £200, in my opinion. Yeah. So that's why I said in terms of that, however, there's massive opportunities come up very recently, huge opportunity which is making people go from pretty much, I don't know, nothing to do a lot. And I don't know if, you know, it's obviously TikTok organic.

You know, like I said, I hear all about that on Twitter all the time.

Yeah, yeah. I mean it is the new buzzword, to be honest with you, I feel like. But I mean it pays like if you think about it, you literally just have to upload a TikTok and then you can like get like that breakthrough. Which is, which is nuts.

Yeah. So what was that? I think you probably saw this. It was a, that like back cracking product that.

Yeah.

People say people have like calculated it did 3 million quid organically or some bullshit, which I don't know how it is. But yeah, like, you know, could have done that because you got 100 million organic views.

Jesus.

Yeah, which is insane. Like you'd have to spend millions on ads to get that on Facebook.

It's crazy. Like if you think about the actual like all the impressions spring, just the eyes on that, that product and that store. But yeah, I don't know. Here's the thing. I'm not qualified to talk about TikTok organic at all. You know, I've never really done it too much much. I've got a team actually that do it for my stores. Like I've got like team and they upload, I don't know, three to five tick tocks a day to try and get some to go viral and then it's perfect for me because obviously I run ads so I then use that as content. So it goes hand in hand. So I guess anyway regards to if they go well or not, I'm happy because I'm paying them and I'm getting content so it works out. However, I don't know title Organic is definitely probably the next like gold gold gold mine. I don't know, I feel like, you know, I've got friends personally as well who have literally just, you know, posted it even right outside like my apartment, I had like two mates who, they came over to mine, chill for a bit. They went downstairs, filmed a tick tock in Canary wharf. It got 53 million views and they made like, I think it was 70k in the day. Like $70,000.

53 million. Yeah. Just on a drop shipping ad.

Just a drop shipping. Yeah, drop drop shipping product, drop shipping ad. Like it was literally just obviously it was, I don't think it was positioned necessarily as like an ad. It was more of just like just showing off the product. I guess it was, it was. Because here's the thing, a lot of the products on Digital Organic are just unique products. They just, yeah, they're just kind of cool, I guess. Like, and I've seen some of the most random products in TikTok Organic, and I feel like that that's also kind of the con is that, like, you can't just run, like, I don't know, a product that could work on Facebook ads because it hasn't got that crazy factor of going viral.

Hmm.

Because, yeah, there's functional, but there's nothing cool about it that's gonna make it go viral. So you have to run, like, some, like, just weird products that just are gonna go viral, but they also. They may not convert that well because no one actually really wants them.

Yeah, yeah, agreed. How many issues have you run into, like, ad accounts and payment processes, if anything? Because that was probably one of the big reasons that just eventually just turned me off drop shipping. It was like the fucking stress of. Yeah, I mean, e comms always stress, but like, particularly dropshipping when you know. Yeah, you run risk of that sort of way more.

I've lost count, honestly. Obviously, because I'm a drop shipper, man. Like, you know, there's so many issues, like, on the day to day, obviously. There's what payment holds. Yes. There's. There's ad account bans. There's all of this. It leaves such a sour taste in my mouth. And there has been times I did take a big break from Facebook ads because I kind of actually didn't really have a system to just get around it. Like, I was banned on, like, pretty much all the accounts I had access to. But, like, now. Yeah, I mean, I've got a nice setup where I've got. I've got a verified bm, I've got an agency account, I've got a profile. So it's like, ban me, I dare you. You know, I mean, like, yeah, it's difficult for them to ban me now, I guess. And even if they did, it should be quite easy to get it back. Like. I don't know. I don't know if you even. I don't know. Have you done much advertising recently? I'm sure not.

I haven't. Oh, I haven't myself. No. I mean. Yeah, I don't run out of myself anymore. I mean. Yeah, I won't be for the new brand either, really.

This is one thing I also want to ask with the product. Is it advertisable? I don't know.

Yeah, it is. I mean, I'm doing a Q and A pod all about that shit tomorrow, so we won't go into too much. But is. Yeah, I mean, it's just a supplement. This is the thing. It's like you were saying before, like so many people think my product is a class A drug, which is probably good in a way because it's like that sensationalism and it's the way I'm marketing it and I want it to be controversial and polarizing and I want people to say, what the fuck is this? And very marmite, you know what I mean? But it's just a supplement. At the end of the day, it's legal ingredients, like obviously it's legal. People think I'm selling a class A drug.

So it's definitely a TikTok organic product. I guess that does it very well.

That's the one thing like you were saying before. Like it's a fucking. It seems like a gold rush right now. And for the first time TikTok is a platform genuinely where I feel like I organically, at my age don't really get it. Like I feel like I'm too old for it. So there's loads of guys on Twitter that I've been speaking to. I'm gonna hire someone from Twitter, basically just fucking run it organically. And that seems like the new agency model. Like people are just. Or a new way of running an agency. Just people charging. They seem to all be American right now, but just charging to run your organic tick tock and basically promising I'm.

A client of that. Like, you know, I mean like literally.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah. As I said, like, obviously, you know, I got people my tutorial that's. I guess I'm a client of that.

You know, how often does it like hit then? Because guess obviously with organic you're not paying for ads, but you're effectively paying for the person to run it and like influences and whatever.

I mean, it really just depends how good they are, you know, I mean like I'm. I'm very new. Like I literally just hired them very recently. So I guess it's. I don't, I don't know, as if I haven't really gone viral, you know, but I've definitely had like, you know, like products have gone semi viral, I guess. Nothing crazy. I mean, again, I don't know, I can't really talk on because I'm not. I don't know anything, but I don't do it. I don't really want to. Like, it's not really my type of field. I've always just been a paid advertising guy, honestly, because I feel like I'm pretty good at what I do when it Comes to ads. I kind of know exactly.

Do you run all your own ads to then?

Yeah.

Every single one?

Yeah, I've tried.

I think it's harder when drop shipping as well because like if you're like trying new products and shit, it's like starting from scratch every time. And I think an agency. Can we do that testing?

Isn't that rocket science? So it's like I'm not gonna hire an agency to test. Yeah, maybe when you're at scale makes sense. But yeah, I mean I have media buyers in my agency anyway, so. So like I've got like what, one media buyer and like it's fine. So I guess I can just utilize my own agency anyway. But also me personally, I'm, I, I like running ads. Like I kind of enjoy it, I guess.

I used to fucking love it.

I'd like because it's just, it's just cool, man. Like, I don't know, I spent like.

Three hours a day like launching ad sets and shit back in the day.

When I did like wake up. Was it the first thing you checked, your ads manager?

Yeah. So why did you launch an agency then if you make all this money dropshipping, I mean obviously like launch at the same time.

Yeah.

But do you think there's obviously pros and cons to both models? I feel like people getting started genuinely say like, should I start an agency? I think more people probably do that to be fair. Or should I try and get into ecom dropshipping, build a brand, etc. Etc. You've obviously done both. So you're probably quite a good person for people of a similar age or that are wanting to get into like the online business sphere.

Yeah.

Which I sometimes forget is not what 99% of people do because like it's easy to think when you're in these worlds that everyone's an online business.

Yeah.

It is a bubble, honestly. So what was the question? I mean, how do you think they compare? And I guess why do you do both? And having experience of both, like what would you say to people that want to start?

So here's the thing, it's like again, like I'm not on the day to day trying to build like you know, the craziest agency. Right. Like it's not like I'm scaling it to like, I don't know, like a million million pound months right now. I definitely do want to take it like further and but I just haven't really like, I guess, I don't know, I've been sort of focusing My E commerce stuff, I guess. So that's sort of like that. But again, like on the side, like Daisy does. Well, right. It is, right. So that's kind of like, I guess something I can never say no to. And I've got clients I've had for a while, I'm sort of, you know, working with and all that. And it's, it's just, it's pretty sweet. However, I don't know, man. I feel like when I'm doing drop shipping, I don't feel like I'm actually in business, if that makes sense. I don't like, I pretty much don't feel like I'm doing business. I feel like I'm just like an Internet kid, just on my laptop.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Whereas like I used to feel that this is the thing like with agency, like I feel like I'm actually running a business. I'm actually doing something, you know, I enjoy jumping on meetings with a prospect and closing them on a deal, you know, I know is going to, is going to make me like, I don't know, very healthy amount, you know, or just like a retainer as well. Because obviously drop shipping as well. Like I've had months where I've gone from making I know what, 20, 30k in a month, like profits initially, the next month, bang, I made nothing. Probably lost, I don't know, a thousand testing. Whereas like the agency is just, it's just consistent, it's nice. So I can never say no to that. And as I said, man, like, I don't know, I just, I do enjoy getting on like sales, sales meetings. I do enjoy actually sort of managing like just the data of an actual business. I guess that makes sense.

It's more sustainable I think for sure. I think that's why most people, I definitely think there's more people starting agencies now than there are getting into E Comm. Whether that's trying to build a brand or drop shipping. I always kind of joke that people run agencies because they don't have the balls to start a brand. And I still actually believe that by the way, even for all the people that run agencies that are on the pod and shit. I mean it's different for everyone. Of course I say that flippantly, but what would you do if you could only choose one?

Oh, brand building.

So E commerce for the long term.

Yeah, yeah, E commerce. I mean, brand building. Yeah. I mean 100% because an agency, yeah, it's cool but like it's you, you got to do some like crazy Stuff to be able to hit like these crazy. Here's the thing with my agency as well. Like it's so calm. I just don't like, it's just alright. I don't really think about it too much. Like, you know, I probably work on it every now and again. Like every now and again, but I work on it. Like I don't know.

Do you run all the client ads yourself or do you outsource it?

Well, I've got a media buyer now so I guess we've got that. But you know, I still do like jump on it. But when it comes to actually like I don't know man, to hit like the crazy, go crazy with an agency and you know, things the craziest level, like you have to have like, I don't know, swanky office, all that. Do all that. Like I guess. Well you don't necessarily have to but at some point it's going to have to go a bit more corporate.

Yeah.

Right. Whereas I don't know, I feel like with E Comm and a brand like even with Neon beach, obviously it's my story but obviously you took it to like huge level. I didn't. You say you think it was probably on the UK's biggest brands without like the least amount of people or something like that.

Yeah, it was, I mean definitely the biggest I've ever seen like in terms of Instagram growth.

Yeah.

But it was, yeah, it was a classic. Fucking grew too quick, failed too quick.

But that's what I mean man, like, like that you can't get out with like anything else. And also branding, you can express yourself.

Yeah.

Which you definitely done with.

Yeah, I spent yesterday fucking doing this 1980 shoot which will come out by now. But yeah, that was definitely me expressing myself 100%. Yeah.

I don't know. But also you know, I guess obviously I'll do all that.

I don't know.

I guess also I like, I like an outlet. So that's why I guess with Econ I have ideas and I do have like you know, certain brands that I want to build in the back of my head and certain ones I've got in process of building which I don't probably can't really touch on too much because I guess in the background. But 100%, you know, that's the long term vision is building a brand and using all these skills which I've learned from my agency and from Econ because it's, it's all. Yeah. So it's all applicable.

Right.

So I don't Know that's kind of the long term vision, but also I guess, yeah, even with, even with the podcast, you know, I, I like having different, different ways which I can kind of express myself and I guess that's also one I've been doing. But. Yeah, man.

So agency and drop shipping, I feel like, well, I mean you're so young but like you've obviously been in the game a while. Like what is the plan in terms of. You kind of touched on the fact that obviously dropshipping is pretty up and down. It's not that sustainable. I think it's more like I've always viewed dropshipping and even I've seen it myself as like a, a great way to, if you can make it work, learn a lot of shit and make some money. And I still think that like the cash approach in like dropshipping, if it works is better than building a brand until you potentially exit from it anyway. But like, are you already thinking about what you. I know you mentioned there's a few things working on the background, like is there anything pending soon or are you happy doing what you're doing now and just fucking see what happens?

Because yeah, like am I just gonna continue just keep on doing drop shipping? I definitely don't want to do drop shipping forever. Obviously, you know, I don't think it's something that obviously it's definitely good to get, get started with it. You know, you can take some crazy levels, you know. However, it's not like the long term play, I'm sure. Obviously the skills from it. Yeah, 100%. Obviously you can use it for forever. But yeah, definitely branding wise is something that I want to get into and taking a lot of inspiration obviously from the stuff that you've done and obviously loads of other brands, I want to just build something that actually makes a difference. Right. I don't know. I've got a lot of things in my head of I guess what I want to do. I'm still like kind of, you know, work out the full long term play, you know, like dot to dot, all of that. Like I guess exactly of you know, how the future is going to be. But I'm sure there's so many, you know, different. I don't know, no one knows what the future can be. Obviously you can have the best idea.

I definitely didn't know I'd have done all the shit I've done when I was, when I first started when I was like 20, let alone fucking 18. Well actually I had a clothing brand when I was 18. But it was a piece of shit and did like 300 quid in revenue. So. Yeah, I think that's the thing. Always makes sense, looking back, like. Like, people say that, like Steve Jobs says that. Weber. But it's fucking true, I think, for. Yeah, yeah. Anyone that's, you know, wanting to get started or has been in the game a few years and just generally, if you're fucking young, which basically is like below 30, realistically.

Yeah.

Just fucking work on what's ahead of you and just. I feel like it does genuinely work itself out if you just put in the time and effort on something.

This is. This is the thing that I feel like it's so easy to get the misconception or just kind of just become. Again, I literally see this whole world that we're in is like a bubble. Like, it's not like online business space.

Yeah.

You know, because even though the fact that it's brought, like, someone like me, you know, together with you, like, you know, I mean, like, the fact that we've networked and stuff like that, like, it's nuts.

Yeah.

Like. Like, honestly. But think about. Obviously, if I don't. I was at university, I wouldn't meet, like, anyone in this sort of space. I wouldn't be anyone who's, you know, I don't know, been through what you've been. I wouldn't be anything, you know, I mean, like, it's. It's crazy. Yeah, obviously. So I feel like it's such a huge role. But also it's very easy to kind of think, like, the. I don't know that, for example, even me, I'm like, oh, man, I'm getting a little bit old now. Not that, but I'm like. I feel like every now and again I need to kind of remind myself, you know, Like, I'm like, damn. But I kind of feel like, oh, I need to get this stuff working now. It has to happen now. Which, yeah, I guess is a good mindset. But also it's kind of damaging, I guess, at times because it's obviously putting on stupid pressure. But I feel like also probably that mindset has also helped me push myself a little bit harder.

Yeah. We were saying in the sauna earlier, actually, like, I. I think about sometimes if I knew what I know now when I was, say, 18, like, you know, like, I'd probably be a billionaire by my age. I mean, maybe not, but, you know.

You need to teach me everything that, you know. Please.

I still feel like I don't know. There's always there's always levels in it. Like some of the guys I've had on this podcast, like Jimmy from Hair Burst, for example, who's financially the most successful person we've had on it's particularly an ecom. And yeah, like, I speak to him and I'm like, fuck, what do I need to know? Do you know what I mean? Like, there's always someone more experience or whatever. I think it's just getting in those rooms, which is the hard part.

Yeah, that's a lot.

Which brings me on to you. Fucking, like. So did you finish school? But did you officially finish school and get like.

Yeah, I got BTECs, I guess. BTEC, BTEC business, BTEC law, VTEC. I t. Yeah.

Right. Okay. So you finished that, though?

Yes, I got my grades and. But I stopped going to school, I guess, like, kind of.

When did you move to London?

I moved on. Well, I was supposed to be in school, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it was issue this time last year.

Okay. And what was the thinking there? Like, was that because again, this is something so many people DM me about. They're like, oh, I'm not around anyone that thinks anything like, me. Like, I want to be an entrepreneur, but I haven't even started. And like. Right. Do you know what I mean? So you obviously move and you're like 17 to London. That is pretty ballsy, to be fair. Like, what was the. The situation? Did you know anyone? Did you go by yourself?

Literally, man, I knew. I knew one person who was moving a few days after me to London. That was it. I didn't know anyone in London. I had pretty much. I probably knew of some people, I guess, and maybe the ecommerce. There's not too many, to be fair. I guess, like, if we're talking like dropshippers.

Yeah. Mass testers.

But you know, me, like, I. I pretty much knew one guy, Josh. You know Josh.

Yeah, yeah.

He was moving. Like, we were gonna, like, move together, but we ended up getting our own place. So, yeah, I got my apartment. I moved in a couple days before him, so he was the only person I knew. But pretty much, honestly, within like, a week or two, I'd network like. Like, man, like, I had like, a huge bonus, huge circle, but I'd had a very strong circle within, like, two weeks. Yeah. And it's kind of funny. It's because it's. It's pretty much all the youtubers I used to watch when I was a kid. When I was a kid, you know, a few years back, you know, like, so that was kind of who I networked with because they all live in my building or a lot of them like live in my building. You know, I sort of met one of them and then they kind of invited us to a party. And then from then on I'd met like loads of people and then. Yeah, it kind of did that. So. But I feel like that's, that's the thing. Like even like living in London, like the type of people you meet are so different. And even I always look back and I was like, like, especially when I was like 17, it's like, damn. Like all my friends are like 20, 21. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's so different to just like when I look back on, I guess what my friends age should be. Obviously if I was still in school, like everyone's obviously the same age as you and everyone's exactly in the same sort of place. But yeah, it was, it was one of them decisions where it wasn't. I didn't move to London to network. I moved for a lot of reasons, I guess to get out my comfort zone to literally kind of, I don't know, become a bit more independent. I wanted to get that experience straight away because, you know, it's.

Yeah, especially if you didn't go to uni and shit.

Yeah.

Didn't like move away.

That's one of the things that I said. I was like, you know, in like a few months time anyway, if I was a typical, typical person, I'd be going to university. So it's not actually that big of a deal. So. Yeah, like that's, I guess that was the main thing. And also, yeah, networking, of course. Because the networking you can do here is a joke.

Yes. How did you meet, for example, Josh then? Like, because people don't even know where to. Like I used to meet with people through Facebook groups. Literally like Facebook groups. That was the thing back in like 2016.

Full of scammers now.

Yeah, yeah, A lot of them disappeared.

So I met through Instagram. I honestly, I met my. All my friends. Literally all my friends except for like one guy I've met through like just Instagram and Clubhouse, you know that. Clubhouse. Yeah, that's literally it.

Is that still a thing? I swear that blew up and disappeared.

It blew up and like I was, I was on it for, I guess the time for the blue. It was finished like two, three months and they just died out. It was just. Yeah, no one uses anymore or at least as far as I know. I definitely Don't. But yeah, literally all my friends are from Instagram. I guess women talking, like, E Commerce or. Yeah, even you. Like, I met you through, like, Instagram. Yeah, that, that. I mean, it's crazy to look back on, like, literally my whole circle, I guess, is. Is people I met through online. Like, I don't have any friends.

Like, putting yourself out there and sharing about Ecom and that. Because again, so many people message me saying, how do I fucking meet people? And then it's like they've DM me from an account with zero followers and a blank profile picture. So. Well, I have no context on who you are, what you're interested in. Like, no one does.

But just so I knew that I had to, like, because obviously I had like a, I guess, personal Instagram account that I used when I was like, in school and stuff. And I was like, okay, I really want to get into this Ecom thing. So I think when I was like, 15 is when I started my account, but the one, I guess is my main one now. So I started that account, I was like 15 years old. And literally I'd like, no followers because I knew, like, obviously no one doing business, but I literally just followed business people. I kind of in the position that I wanted to be. And I guess every time I was on that Instagram and I was getting motivated anyway, and I was kind of, you know, learning, let's say, even though I'm using Instagram stuff, but, you know, I mean, I was kind of like getting something out of it.

Yeah.

A lot better than just, I guess a standard Instagram where I'm just seeing like, I don't know, like some random girls.

Yeah, you know, like.

But yeah, like, pretty much, yes, I made the account purely just followed like, people in the business space, started like, connecting with some of them as well. And then I started also putting out document in like, E Commerce. Funny. Actually, I remember posting like, like 60 pounds, like Shopify screenshots like a day. And I was like, yo, yo. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'm coming up. Right. But yeah, I guess that that's one thing I did is definitely make. Make sort of a new Instagram. And this is one thing I like to recommend to people as well, is 100% like, you know, sort of make. Get a bit of a social presence. Doesn't have to be like, you don't have to be an influencer. Just have something where you can kind of. Yeah. People. And also people can understand who you are when it comes to, like, context. Yeah.

So if you message them or do anything. Yeah, it's so true. Like, you don't need a personal brand, but you need like something.

Especially if you document the journey. Like, bro, I look back on it and all my stuff, like from. Obviously if I go in the archives of the stories, it's actually like, it's nuts to look back on. It's kind of like, damn, I had.

Like nearly a thousand Instagram posts the other day and I was trying to work out how the fuck it got to that. Because I've had an Instagram account like nearly 10 years, which is mad. But even then that's like a post every three days for 10 years. Roughly. Like what? I don't know. I must have just posted a lot of trash in the house.

The drop shipping life.

Yeah. But it's quite cool to look back on just even from personal level. I wish I'd done that when I was. As in. I'm glad I did that. But I wish I'd done more of like, maybe not necessarily putting it online, but just like filming like somewhere where.

You can kind of like in a vault where you can kind of.

That's why I started using Twitter like six months ago, because I think it's quite a. That's obviously more that you can share.

Thoughts and shit rather than just like an online notepad.

Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, in 10 years time.

Yeah.

I can look back and say that's something I shared at the time, you know, about the business or whatever.

Even like the whole like the Kanye documentary, man, this made me like.

Oh yeah.

Stuff like bros.

I think everyone thought that recently.

Amazing.

I was thinking about how I could potentially even make. Start filming a documentary about building this next brand, but like film it for like five years.

Yeah.

And then release it in five years. I mean, it's fucking mad. Like job and Admin doing a documentary.

But I always find it crazy how like, I guess Kanye was pretty much nothing and then like some guy was like, yeah, film your whole life.

Yeah. He had. He thought ahead and thought, yeah, that's mad.

Yeah.

Because it would be so sick to look back on.

Yeah. Honestly. Jesus.

So, yeah, that's actually something I would recommend a lot of people do is just fucking film more shit. Even if it's just for personal use.

Yeah. Just doc.

Don't have to post necessarily. Like document.

I always look back on it because it's just. It's just cool to look back on. I don't actually, like. I don't know, it's just funny as well to look Back on it, obviously. Just see, you know what I used to do because again, like, honestly, there's a good three to six months of pure me posting trading charts.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? I just started, I just started laughing.

I think everyone goes through it, wanted to be an FX trader stage.

Especially when you're like, when you're like naive. Yeah. Like when I was like 4, 14, 15, it was literally like because you get these flashy ads which you get from dropshippers, bear in mind. But you know, you get, especially those trading people, you know, you get so many flashing guys, flashy ads. It's like, oh, you know, make, make money overnight.

Yeah, a lot of that's gone away to be fair in it. I think they've been regulated heavily by the FCA and so.

Yeah, well, like the cpa.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of people as well then. Because I feel like I'm just asking UDMs that I get from people that similar to you. So I feel you're qualified to answer them. But like people ask me all the time, oh, is it worthwhile moving to like a big city? Like it's expensive and like, do you think that's been like net? But it definitely has. But like, has that paid for itself in terms of like the actual expense of doing that? Obviously you have to be in a position to be able to like move out and especially to a place like London.

But yeah, 100. It's expensive. I'm not gonna say it isn't like, especially like the area that I live in and even like this place and this place is amazing, you know, so just, you know, living in a nice, a nice place, 100% living anywhere in London is expensive. But especially if you want to live in like, you know, a nice place. And like, you know, I really wanted to have like the whole like all in one where you've got like a pool. It's just, it's just a nice touch, I guess.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so yeah, it's definitely expensive. However, 100% net benefit, I would say like regardless of. Even if, let's say I spent all the money and I went broke, the experiences that I've got from, from living here is incredible. And again, like I was like, again, I mean my sort of mindset was too. It was like, I'll be 18 by the time like my tendency ends, so it's like I can't really lose.

Like that's how it ends. That's mad.

But that's the thing. It's like I would have already Had a year of living like in London, like an area or whatever, so I can't really lose. So honestly, man, the experience has been crazy. I've had. Yeah. I mean, there's been some things that just. A lot's happened. Right. There's a lot of business stuff, a lot of social stuff. I've kind of. Yeah. I've got out of my comfort zone so much. I feel like I've grown a lot as a person, you know, because there's a lot of, like, me. Yeah. Like just, you know, on zooms and stuff, like talking to people, but like being like, actually there and speaking to people and, you know, actually, I don't know, connecting with just people who are doing just some. Some really cool stuff. It just. Just hits different and you get you by just being there. Like, I've got myself into rooms that I definitely would not have been able to get into if I did not live in London.

Yeah. I think it's like a compound effect in it.

Yeah.

Because I always notice, like, some people seem to just hate London and some people love it and a lot of, like, grads move here and probably can't really afford to like, properly live here and so on. Everyone's experience is different. But I always notice when I leave London and like, go home to York or whatever, which I rarely do these days. And then I realized, oh, wow, it's actually very different living in the center of a big city. And if you want to think bigger and, you know, be motivated and have access to certain people, then I definitely think it's the right thing to do. But, yeah, it's just been self aware because some people love that countryside.

I mean, that's the thing. Like, it's not. It's not necessary, you know, to do big things. You don't have to. Like, there's countless people that have, like, just stayed in. Like.

Yeah, there's people about in the pod, run big brands and I mean, like. Like live at home.

Yeah, exactly. But however, like, you know, it's. It's just. It's just. It's just you get experiences that you cannot get anywhere else. And I know, like on Twitter, it's like a big step in like a trend to. To hate on London.

Yeah.

I know there's some points, I guess, here and there, like, you know, compared to, I guess you went to Brazil recently, right?

Yeah.

And obviously, like, I'm going to South America soon, so I don't know, like, it's a completely different life there. And. Yeah, I guess when you think about It. How? How? Like, I don't know, like, the London prices and a lot of it is pretty much just like, hype, I guess. Like, apparently my apartment is worth a million. A million pounds?

Yeah.

Like, but what, like how? Like, it's. It's not. It's not big. It's not big. It's a one bedroom apartment. Like, it's. It's 500, 600 square foot.

Oh, it's pretty small. Yeah.

You mean like, that's not necessarily big? Like. Yeah, like it's fine for one person, like, to be worth a million. I don't know. But obviously that's just in London, because the area, however, like, when you go to these places in South America, I've even had like, you know, people, even my media buys from Colombia and like, the money makes it go so much further there, you know, so it's.

Yeah.

I mean, so different.

So have you done much traveling then? Because I did a lot of traveling. Like Bali. Bali, particularly. I was right about Bali. It's sick. But like, I also kind of like take the piss out of people that. And there's a lot on. A lot of them on Twitter, they're like, on London and say, oh, like, you get this done that there's someone I'm thinking of. I'm not gonna say the name. They'll like, literally live on Alpha Don. Yeah, there's a lot of them, but like, X person will, like, talk. They'll be like, oh, London. And then this person lives on a farm in a. In like a shed in Paraguay and like, goes, oh, I don't pay tax. Yeah, but you also don't know anyone and you live in the field.

Yeah, like, all right, cool.

I see like kind of arguments or bad weather in London, whatever, but everyone's different, of course. But I think, yeah, I think it's important to experience different cultures and shit and something. Decide what you like, that's it.

Work out what's for you. Because there's. There's so many ways that you can live life. Like, you don't have to, you know, live in like, I don't know, like a penthouse or something like that. That doesn't mean that your life's gonna be good. Yeah, you know, but like, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. I guess that's your question. I've traveled a lot. I mean, I've been trying to make an effort to travel a lot more because it's fun and also because, like, I do like, getting all these, like, new cultures and experiences and especially recently I mean, in the past year I've traveled quite a bit, especially when I've been in London. And this is even why, you know, I could just extend my London contract. It's like, no, I want to, like, actually travel also without feeling guilt of, like, I guess just leaving my London, like, crib, like. Yeah. For so long. So, yeah, that's it. I just want. Just now. I guess it's kind of a fresh start. I can literally just travel. I can go anywhere. I'm going to argue, obviously, but I guess, yeah, I have traveled quite a bit and it's, it's, it's open my eyes, I guess, to what. What there is in the world in Argentina.

For how long?

Three. Around, like three months. I haven't actually decided fully.

But you go by yourself.

Yeah, but I've got family there.

Yeah.

I want to get like, my own, like, apartment, I reckon. But yeah, so, like, that's kind of the goal. It's like a monk mode. I guess that's pretty much the gist of it.

So I made that phrase famous.

Honestly, bro, I'm trying to sort of like. Yeah, just, just, just, just sort of like focus in.

Yeah, no, I definitely think, yeah. Anyone watching that's like, young and. Yeah. I just think it's criminal not to travel and go to new places if you can, particularly be in the online space. And this gives you a new perspective and grass is always greener. I will say, though, because I think you always think, particularly when you haven't been to certain places, Bali, Brazil, fucking whatever you think, oh, like, that's gonna cure my hate for what I do in the UK or whatever. But everything has pros and cons. Like, for me, like, Bali and shit were. Sometimes it'd be like shitty weather here and I think it'd be lovely to go and get a bitter in Bali and just completely move away from London again. But then it's like, I think it's important to compound your social life as well in one place and like, build a reputation in a certain place. Yeah, like, I think that's something you think about a bit more when you're a bit older. But definitely important to try new places.

This is the thing that I always kind of like. I'm like, oh, I just don't. I can't answer this question. It's like, I don't know if you can, but, like, where do you want to live? Like, I guess where do you want your, like, place of living to be for like, the rest of your life? I guess, obviously you don't have to.

Live in one place. I think London. Yeah.

You think it's gonna be London? That's like.

Yeah, because I can't now. I thought about this, like, I think my parents would love me to move back to like York, but it's not for me. I mean, maybe when I'm like 50 years old, I don't know. But yeah, I just think London has the best mix of factors and in terms of like, places to live, I think it has the best. There's so many sick areas that I think, again, you have to get really rich to live in the best, best places of any fucking city. But anyone watching that, watching this pod, is trying to do that. So, yeah, London for me, I think.

I mean, this is the thing.

I guess I like the idea of having like a village by the sea in Italy and shit, but maybe more. More just for like a summer thing.

Well, I have it like a. I don't know, like living. Living off the farm, you know?

Yeah. I don't know.

I think I would definitely not be able to do that to us. I can't even cook, man.

Everyone on Twitter says that. Shit. Fucking village by the sea. And just like, no GMOs go off the grid. Like F off. Like, come on. It's all just a big meme.

Have you ever done that where, like actually gone off the grid?

No.

Well, obviously you've done that whole like deactivate social media thing, right?

Yeah, for a while.

And then I wouldn't call that going off the grid.

You know, I don't think I could do that again now because really I just. There's so much benefit to. Again, it depends on the context and the person, but I think there's. There's a lot. I think it's net beneficial as an entrepreneur to share stuff that you're doing in terms of like people you can meet and the opportunities you can create. Yeah, which is why I just. I don't get it when I get like a random. I get a lot of DMs these days off the back of this pod. I get a random DM from some 21 year old that wants to go for a coffee and it's like, it's an anonymous account. You have no pictures of who you are. Anything you've ever done. Your profile picture is a pink screen. Like John. I mean, so private account. Yeah. I just think that definitely is benefit to putting yourself out there a little bit. 100, like, I recommend people do that.

The opportunities I've had from social media I mean, I guess pretty much most of my opportunities are from social media. If you think about it. Like if I didn't have a social media account, like I, I don't know man. Like it's, I wouldn't bleak. I get so many opportunities from it. Like even like. So, bro, I can't even begin to explain the amount of like things that happen on the day to day, you know, people that approach me, people that I've met through social media that like, as I said, all my friends, like, I guess I'd have no friends if I did on social media, but you know what I mean? Like, I guess, I guess that's sort of how I see it is. Yes. It's def. There's definitely a lot of like, like on social media.

Yeah.

But in the, in the long, in the long run, it's just that, I mean like also it's, it's net benefit, you know.

Start to burrow in the sofa. Yeah, no, I completely agree. What's the plan for the next year then? I mean I always feel like I asked this as a question when we're like wrapping up, but is that something you think about, particularly at your age or are you just fucking trying to do an experience as much as possible?

No, I'm definitely, I've definitely sort of coming across a plan, I guess, you know, I've learned a lot, you know, especially in the past like few months, the whole year that I've been in London, you know, about like myself, who I want to be, my identity and I want to sort of, you know, become, I guess and I guess the plan for the next year definitely, you know, I still, I study drop shipping, you know, 100% agency build up. I feel like I want to sort of focus on the agency a little bit more. So build up to a bigger level. Because also regardless, like you can exit econ brands. Cool. But you can also exit agencies. Yeah, like people don't really talk about that.

Very true.

Especially when you've got clients. Especially when you've got retainers and it's, I mean it's just pretty nice. However, I feel like I just want to just experience a lot of. And definitely in the next few months, I mean I've got a lot of like trips planned, man. Like even so I've got like Italy coming up next, like few weeks, I think Dubai. I'm going again for the podcast. We're going to film like well obviously, you know.

Oh yeah, you film with him. I met, I met with him copying all my guests.

What Can I say? I don't know. Obviously I met him when I was in Dubai last.

Yeah, he's a good guy.

I mean, there's so many people in Dubai. So many people in that sort of area that. That I'd love to sort of get. Get on the podcast. 100%. Yeah, he's a chill guy, but also, you know, USA. I'm going to Miami.

Miami's high risk.

What do you think?

I've been. It was a bender, really. Yeah.

I've never been US in my life, so I don't even know what to expect. But I'm going for, like, crooked bro. I'm going for this, like, this. This like an E. Comm thing. It's an E. Comm event. It's on a super yacht.

Oh, really nice.

It's gonna be like loads of people there, I guess, like in the US Space. So, I mean, that's gonna be interesting. Gonna film a lot of podcasts out there as well. Like with, I guess, like, I don't know, US Dropshippers and US E Commerce people and just US Wales. I guess we'll say US Wales. So that's kind of the plan in terms of that. But then, you know, then I'm going to Argentina and then I'm gonna live there for a bit, three months, kind of just, I don't know, maybe discover a little bit more about myself in general. Again, learn Spanish, which I have to do because, you know, a lot of my family is Spanish. Especially obviously over there, you know, they're all Spanish, so I can't really, like, speak to myself. So it's kind of difficult. Yeah, so I need to learn Spanish, man. Like, it's something I have to do. Continue to run it up, I guess, in between sort of the plan. But then I guess from then travel a little bit more. I've never been Bali. Would like to do that. Yeah, you said. I've heard a lot of good things.

I think it's open up again now.

Yeah. Yeah, I believe so.

I want to go again. I've not been about two and a bit years now. It's fucking mad.

Didn't you say that it's kind of hard to focus there?

I mean. Yeah, there are a lot of distractions. I think that's always the case with traveling anywhere, to be honest. Yeah, but you can get like a sick villa set up. There's a lot of, like, nomads and like online people there. I think it's a great place, particularly for like, people getting started in the online sphere. You Think to go to is pretty cheap.

Well, yeah, it's super cheap, I believe.

Nice weather generally.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I definitely want to visit Bali and then, I guess, kind of working out where I want to settle down and I don't know, it could be London, it could be, I don't know, Dubai. It could be anywhere, man. I don't know. I don't know. But there's loads of places.

Dubai, Yeah. I think a lot of people attempted by Dubai.

What do you think about that? Like. Like the whole, like, the buy thing.

Personally, not for me. Everyone bangs on about like zero tax. Like, what is that the only factor of life? Like, it's not in my opinion. I just. I just don't like the fakeness of it.

Why?

It's not. It's great weather, but I actually think having great weather all the time, I would personally find quite distracting because I'd be somewhere, well, I'd want to sunbath, maybe I'd get old. Get old a bit. Or whatever. But yeah, it's just not for me. I think the whole culture is very. It doesn't really have one. It's kind of like fake. And it's basically a new country, isn't it? Like 100 basically become a thing in like, pretty much the past 10 years. There's a lot of great parts of it, but I always just feel a little bit uneasy in Dubai. I don't know, like, it's just not for me.

There's a lot.

I think it's great for holiday.

Yeah. Yeah.

I just want to live there.

I went there for the first time recently and yeah, like, there's a lot of, you know, the cringy, like, you know, Brits become like. There's like Essex abroad almost exactly. And there's like, you know, the influences there or like the, the random, like, women that have been flown out by like, Wayne line across and you know what I mean?

There's pretty much like. No. Well, I think people have said this, like, jokingly, like, there's no, like, organic women that you can pull on a night out in Dubai. So, you know, take from that what you will, but good. Yeah. I mean, whether that's true or not, I'm not entirely sure.

I don't even think I'll be able to go on and out. I think 21.

Yeah, it's 21, yeah.

Oh, God.

But, nah, it's not for me. But I mean, a lot of people love it.

The thing is, I guess to be fair, I'm really bad with the Cold weather, I can't lie. I don't know what it is. And this is what I've sort of learned when in London, because I don't even go out. Like, I've got balcony, amazing view. It's like, I don't really sit there and I don't really actually do anything there. I've got chairs, but I don't actually, like, I'm literally, I'm like. I really like the idea of it. I romanticize it, but I'm like, I go outside to sit there and do some work and I'm like, man, it's too cold. And I just go straight back in. So I guess maybe doing like winter there because you only have to do six months. Yeah, that's one thing, potentially.

But don't quote me on winter there being good.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not fixated on anything like that. And that's. That's months to come, but that's always an option, you know, I guess, obviously, zero percent tax. I did get shafted this year, to be honest with you, with tax. I can't lie. I wasn't very smart.

No drop shippers. Well, not just drop shippers, but particularly, you know, just young entrepreneurs don't speak about. Yeah, there's any of that. Particularly drop shippers. Because, like, often. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think that sort of shit, it's like stuff that makes you grow up.

Did you ever have any, like, encounters like that, I guess where you.

Yeah, I mean, the one thing I think I said on episode 20, which is actually filmed in Dubai, the biggest error I made and like, in that realm of things was spending a load of money from the business, not really thinking about it, and then having to pay myself a massive retrospective dividend, which basically means paying. You end up paying a massive tax bill on money that you've already spent. So the tax bill is then paid from another future dividend.

Oh, man.

So it becomes a very vicious cycle.

Yeah.

And yeah, I ended up having to pay myself like a 350 grand dividend, which is ridiculous because I didn't even think I spent that much money.

Yeah.

And that's just like personal money. So, like shit like cars, traveling, watches, meals. But I don't regret it, to be honest, because.

Did you go extravagant? Obviously, yeah, there's like.

I never thought I did really, but I mean, I obviously did.

It does add up. Like, you don't realize the times. Especially even me.

Yeah. This is when I was like 23 a few years ago, like, primarily. But again, I don't regret any of it.

No way.

I've done.

That's it. Like it's stupidly young. Like you can't lose at these ages, you know.

Yeah, it's just like, I think broadly speaking, like, you know, accounting, taxes, like what's, what's the business expense? What's not all that sort of shit stuff that no one's ever gonna speak. So boring in the Twitter.

It is so boring, but no one.

It's just then at the same time it's stuff that you don't. How could you know? Because you come out, you drop out of uni, don't go to uni, you finish school, you start a fucking business. Like it's no resource for that, but.

It'S like they don't, they don't want you. So I don't know why they don't even touch on. It's very true.

I think it's a massive problem.

This is. I'm very passionate about the whole, the whole school system. I honestly like, because I've been in it very recently, right. And I remember even ever since the age of like, you know, 13, 14, like just sitting in classroom, I sort of learned this whole, like got into soul, like self improvement, like space. And I learned that there's actually something more to life than just the whole typical route that you're kind of, I guess, I don't know, maybe forced or brainwashed into. I guess there's so much more to it. And from, from. From whenever I sort of learn about that and that point, it's. It was kind of just painful just being in lesson because it's like, what am I even doing here? You know, like.

Yeah, I'd be interested to see what happens with like the school system and probably more particularly like the uni system, because that's something you don't have to do, but a lot of people still do. But I don't have the answer for that.

I wonder if. If the rate is less now. I actually don't know. Maybe. Is there more or less people going to uni?

Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what. I think it's great. Uni is a good thing to do for the majority that don't. Don't have another plan, which I didn't either, which is why I went because I wanted to. It's a good way to get away from home, meet people. There are good parts. But yeah, I just think like. I think stuff like the, you know, business degrees and so on and I think that is kind of worryingly, worryingly outdated. In a lot of cases, it's very.

Expensive as well for what it is. Like, I don't know. But also, then also there's the whole mindset of, like, people, like, in a second, because it's just preconceived. It's like, yeah, I'll go to uni. I'll pay 9,000 a year. Like, that's, that's, that's fine. But then when it comes to investing.

Like, the smallest amount, it ultimately is the system. And, like, yeah, it's not even a conspiracy. It's just. It's literally what it is. But I'm not sure what a better answer is for most people, because that's the thing, I think. I think people have to remember when they are, like, in the entrepreneurship space or whatever, like, most people aren't. And by definition, most people can't be, because if everyone was, then this. It wouldn't work, right?

It wouldn't work. Do you think maybe they're sort of neglecting some people that have maybe that potential but aren't even exploring it? Because they don't? I guess, yeah, probably. Because I feel like all of us are in this space because we got exposed to it. You don't just randomly just, you know, I mean, like, you don't randomly just think, oh, I want to do E commerce. You need to get exposed to it at some point. But, yeah, there's no real outlet for it to be exposed, especially in the whole school system, which is what everyone does. So I don't know, I feel like there should be at least something that, you know, they. They do classes on. On so many things. Like, like, like, obviously you've got, like, I don't know, P.E. you've got, like, obviously sports. Like, you know, you've got so much going on. You got science, you got whatever. But I don't know, I don't understand why there isn't, like, kind of a class where you could, like, open your mind or even just like, you know, a workshop or something like that where it could kind of like open your. Open your mind a little bit. Because, yeah, there's business class, but that is not business at all.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, man, I don't have the answers to that. I think maybe one day, you know, maybe you should go and step in parliament or some and try and make a difference. Ultimately, that's where this sort of, you know, gets decided.

I don't think they want to make a difference, especially how much money they're making. From the whole season.

Yeah. Facts. I mean. Yeah, it's a crazy one.

If they wanted to make it the.

Whole uni thing could speak about for hours.

Yeah, man.

Yeah. I think it's hard. It's hard to suggest an alternative and people get so heated when it's like, well, you know, survivorship bias or whatever. Like it's easy people to say that don't need to go to uni or. But everyone's different 100. But yeah, it's a hard one because I was so frustrated when I was there. I was like the. Is this. But that was my experience. Some people have great experience a lot.

On like your degree. Like I don't know how did it work out? So obviously you stopped going, right? You dropped out.

Yeah. So I don't even know. Yeah, I guess I've paid for two years or whatever.

Do you just charge it to the game that kind of.

I don't actually know. I think. I think I haven't paid it back yet. Really. I don't know. Unless you check.

I don't even know how that works. It's one of those things you scammed.

Probably need to pay it back. I don't know.

Yeah, get some interest is probably added up and yeah, probably.

I probably get a letter from Hm. I say after this podcast. All right, to close things out then. And I feel like this is an interesting question to ask when you're still 18, but I guess you've been doing like five years, like what three bits of advice would you give to your 14 year old self? And I guess to like anyone that is kind of that sort of age and they watch this sort of shit, they know they don't want to go down traditional route.

Okay, that's a good question.

Interesting way to reflect. Yeah.

Honestly, I feel like the main thing is kind of just take a step back. Don't. Don't rush into anything because that's kind of what we're told to do. Like we're told to pretty much do you know what they want us to. Again, like the whole system, like it's kind of like you do. It's so easy to sleepwalk into just decisions which are being made for you, not being made by you.

Yeah. Sleep well. It's good.

Right? So that's. That's the very first thing that I would say is kind of just take a step back and actually decide for yourself. Have. Have a think and actually, you know, work out kind of what your passions are already. Obviously you don't have to work out your passion but work out what it is that you like doing and then think, you know, okay, what can I kind of do to get close to this? You know, you actually need to know for a fact that you can do pretty much anything. Right? That's, that's, that's very, like, you can do pretty much anything in the side, obviously, that you get given. Because limiting beliefs are just a huge thing which kind of set people, you know, stop them from. From doing what they. What they want to actually want to do, you know, and also other people's opinions. So I guess that's probably the second thing is just don't listen to anyone. And that's. I guess why I didn't even want to tell people because I just knew that it would get shut down. And it did get shut down. I was literally. I remember there was a math class that I was in once, and I was. This one guy was fully just laughing at me in my face when I said I was an entrepreneur. You're not an entrepreneur. You know, I mean, it's, it was just. It's. It's funny to look back on now, but it's just something that always sort of sticks with me.

Yeah.

Because. And that's probably one of the reasons why I didn't really tell many people, and that's probably one of the reasons why I made a new Instagram, because I didn't want it anyone to sort of like, you know, sort of see. You know, I mean, I guess that that's kind of one of the things, but, you know, not say you shouldn't tell people you're doing, but it's literally just don't. Don't care what these people are thinking. You know, I didn't even want on that. That's the start. But yeah. And then the third thing, you have to be prepared to just obviously fail. Of course, that's standard. But the way that I see it. Right. The way that I see it purely, is that you have to purely fail enough to deserve to win. And that's. That's.

I see you tweeting about this, this all the time, bro. It's like you're afraid.

Exactly. The second I actually first, like, he said that, I was like, damn, that's actually so true.

Yeah.

Because a lot, A lot. I took so many Ls, and we all have. But it's like, that's fine, but you have to just. You have to. I have people that come to me, they're like, oh, I tested one product. I spent. I spent £200. And I made nothing. Man, this is so long. Yeah, fair enough, man. You do your thing because like, obviously you don't have the right mindset. I came into it knowing that I was gonna lose money. I came into it, I didn't care what. I sort of got back. I actually, I didn't never even thought. This is the thing. I never even thought of the numbers. I didn't glamorize 1k days. I didn't glamorize all the, you know, I mean, like to get, to get started because obviously everyone sort of puts like 1k to get your breakthrough. I guess. Yeah, that's sort of, I guess, what I've seen. But I didn't even think of the numbers until I started hitting them. I was like, oh, whoa, okay. I can actually, you know, you can hit 10k days. I didn't even realize that 10k days was possible, honestly, when it came to like drop shipping and stuff. The most I'd ever seen is like 3k days up until I started hitting these 10k days. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, okay. You actually can be, you know, I don't know, 16 and so. But generating. Yeah, around a million. Like what? I didn't even think about it. I didn't think it was possible until, so it sort of happened. But I guess we're on a bit of tangent, but that's, that's pretty much how I see things. But I don't know. Yeah, I guess maybe I said three points there.

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah. No, it's good. Yeah, I think.

Yeah, man. Yeah.

Your perspective is particularly interesting. That's why I want to get you on. Because often I forget that even like the stuff I speak about is quite far removed from people that are literally like 16, 17, haven't even started. Because I often feel like that was so long ago for me. It's not that long ago for me, but like I can't really relate to a 16 year old that's got 50 quid and doesn't know how to start now because it's kind of hard to give advice to people like that. So I think your perspective is more interesting because it's more recent and yeah, I think. Fucking alfred for an 18 year old doing something right.

Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate you having me on, man. Honestly, it's. It's been a pleasure.

Yeah, always. Always. As usual, subscribe to the fucking pod. More episodes every week. Trying to step up the production quality. There's three, three angles in this one then if you've noticed. And yeah, just share it with a friend. We are, yeah, doing 52 episodes this year. I think this is episode 31. I'm enjoying it. It's always therapeutic. And we'll see you in the next episode. Cheers for watching.

Peace.