How to Start, Biggest Lessons, New Brand, Harsh Truths & Life - Q + A | Midnight Podcast Episode 29

Well then, welcome back to the Midnight Pod. This is, I guess, fucking episode 32 or something. This is the first ever Q and A episode. Highly requested. I guess just answer load of shit about. Well, primarily the new biz and shit which people are constantly DMing me about, but also just fucking questions that people want to know. And I guess to preface this, like the whole pod has never been from a position of, oh, I've made it. These are the answers. It's always just I've done some shit. Very transparent about the ups and downs, as everyone knows that watches the pod and this is just me documenting my thoughts and I guess thoughts along the way really. So, yeah, fucking take everything I say with just a pinch of salt. It's my experience. It's not the answer, it's my opinion based on what I know now. And yeah, I've definitely not fucking made it. But obviously documenting the process to trying to make it so as we all are really.

So big disclaimer.

Yeah, that's the disclaimer because otherwise I feel, I mean, doing a Q and A, I'm answering actual Don's questions, but I'm still winging it as much as anyone else. I might just be a few years ahead of some people that watch the pod and many years behind others.

So, yeah, I mean, it ultimately comes down to experience. Like even the guy came on recently and just said he started when he was 14. Just goes to show, like, it's all about when you start.

Yeah, exactly. And I've been doing ecom, like since I was like 19, but properly for like five years, but I guess full time, five years, which is quite a lot of time. And yeah, I suppose in like the past year particularly, I felt like I became a bit more like weathered as an entrepreneur, having had that massive up, but yeah, still in the trenches building the next brand. So, yeah, a bunch of questions. This is Jack, by the way, out of the shadows. Tell them. Tell them who you are and what you do briefly.

Yeah, I mean, context. I'm usually sat about three meters from every podcast, so front row seats. Been living here for a few months. Lots happened. Yeah, it's been a.

Since the breakup.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's a legal topic on this pod now that we've given it a lot of attention. Yeah, yeah, Being an Ecom since 2019, similar kind of story to a lot of people. But we'll get into your story today and kind of Q A on you. Do another one about me, another day.

Yeah, yeah, we're doing on you, definitely for sure. But yeah, I put a Q A out on Instagram and Twitter. So, like, a lot of the questions are a bit weird. We're not gonna answer all of them. There's probably. I don't know, I think there was maybe 100 questions from that, but. But you're just gonna pick some.

Yeah, I'm just gonna go through and.

We'Ll probably discuss the answers and shit. And again, yeah, it's just like off the cuff, really. And I'll try and answer them. I think most of them are to do. Well, a lot of them are to do with space goods. A lot of them aren't. I think maybe try and kind of go like 50, 50. I don't want it to all be about space.

It's quite a lot of generally common questions as well. So we can just both discuss it.

Pick what you think are most interesting. We're not gonna answer all of them. We'll probably do like an hour and see where it goes.

Yeah, I guess. I mean, the first one is quite general. I think a lot of people who haven't started in econ maybe would be kind of keen to know.

Yeah. Ones that you think are good.

Are we doing name drops? We're keeping it confidential.

I mean, maybe say a first name.

Yeah, I mean, this one's from.

Unless they say they don't want to.

Be mentioned, but yeah, from Matt. So feel like a mountain's climb right now. But how difficult would you say it is to escape the rat race and make 30k in Ecom quite general? Easy to talk about, I think. Yeah, you go first.

Are we both answering? I mean, chime in a little bit.

Yeah, I'll just come in this.

I get DMs about this all the time because people. Well, I guess to be fair, I think we. Our circular friends, whatever, and people are on this podcast, been quite like. Well, I certainly feel like a bit of a unique position in the sense that I've had a taste of, like, success. I've always been in the game. I know a lot of much more successful people, many of which have been on the pod. But I wouldn't. I genuinely wouldn't class myself having made it yet. I've definitely had taste of it and been. And a fucking big taste of shit going wrong. But yeah, to escape the Matrix, I suppose to ultimately, like, do your own thing is what you're saying. I find this quite hard to answer because I've always done my own thing. I've never. I never got into the Matrix. But that was because I was so consciously, from the age of like 15, was like, fucking, I want to do my own thing. I knew when I went to uni, I wasn't going to finish uni. I just didn't know what I was going to do. And then I had an Econ brand and, you know, go watch episode 27, whatever, that's that full story. But I think the headline figure on that for me is I actually think the scariest and like riskiest thing is when people get into. They. They lose the opportunity to get started young because they get into the wrong crowd and then they get into a grad scheme or whatever it is, and they build like this normal early 20s, whatever, post uni life. And then I think it's a lot harder to escape the matrix. Whereas I. You less so, but still did it, as in you, because you finished uni, but like, yeah, barely. But yeah, I suppose that to answer the question, I think anyone can do it, but you've got to be willing to fucking be different to everyone else. And that's the hardest part, because if your circle isn't on the same page, which no one is, by the way, when they start, you have to fucking meet people. I remember being in uni, skipping nights out because I was fucking working on Facebook ads.

Literally, that's such a big indicator.

I still went out and sent it all the time, but yeah, not all the time, but enough. But there was that, fuck, I'm the outlier. But I don't want to be like everyone else. Not because they're bad or worse.

Just.

It's different.

Yeah. I also think there's a lot of signals that kind of, like when in the early days, you know, if it's the right path for you because you're willing to sacrifice a lot more than anyone else. And you know, if you're in it for the right reasons, if you kind of. You're not just thinking like a lot of people now who want to get into it, it's mainly for the money. And you see a lot of people.

Tweet about finance supercar, like I had myself before, you know.

You know, if you're in it just for the money, the reason it won't work is because it gets so hard and there's a lot of stress that you're gonna. It's gonna be easy to quit. And as cliche as that sounds, that's ultimately what it comes down to. You gotta be passionate with. Passionate about the process, not. Not necessarily the niche. Yeah.

Like, I honestly think you have to want to escape the Matrix, which basically means do your own thing so bad that you'd rather die than not make it work. Like, I think that's the intent that you have to feel. I'm not saying go and kill yourself. It doesn't work. But I genuinely believe that's how intense they are. I didn't want to get into the Matrix, whatever we're calling it.

And willing to lose all your money.

Yeah. I've fucking lost a shitload of money and been through hell, I think, as an entrepreneur more than most people, by the way.

Yeah.

And I'm still fucking doing it because I couldn't do anything else.

That entrepreneur intrapreneur debate we were having in the sauna, it's like, what's an entrepreneur? Well, the entrepreneur is when you like the kind of process of scaling and, like, doing what an entrepreneur would do, but without the risk. So you get these scalers in big core companies who are sick of what they do, but they don't necessarily like the risk that comes to being an entrepreneur.

Yeah.

Most of them don't. Yeah. Starting your own business, which is fair enough. You need those people, otherwise how are you going to build a good team?

Yeah. But I think the problem is probably more than entrepreneurs. There's entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

The other day was just like, cons that just speak about shit all the time and everyone knows them. I know plenty of them.

Yeah.

And more people are them.

Yeah.

And I ultimately comes down to, do you do anything that you say you're gonna do? It's like all it comes down to. Don't say, gonna start business and not do it.

There's people that have been saying it for years, and you know that it's never gonna work for them because they've been saying it for five, six years that, when are you gonna take the action? And that's what I mean by signals. Because if you were really in it for the right reasons because you love the process, you would have started five years ago. Like when you were saying you were going to start.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm quite trendy now to want to be an entrepreneur, but, like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Anyway, so I think that kind of answers that one.

Yeah. To be fair, the question was such a tangent. The question was, how difficult is it basically to make 30k? That was the kind of. The extension of it. Escape the rat races.

Well, I guess he's saying 30k because that's what he needs per year to replace his job.

Yeah.

And I think making that sort of level is not easy, but it's so achievable for a lot of people if you're willing to put your balls on the line and grind.

Yeah.

And things get exponentially easier. Not easier, but you obviously get exponentially better. And your access to certain things and like, obviously grows over time. Like, you could spend two years getting to like, make your first grand online. I certainly did. And then in the next three years, you could potentially get to like a few million in revenue and fucking have your dream life. Yeah, we making like 3, 400 grand.

A year online, so it's possible as well.

So, yeah, I think the answer is you can definitely do that. If, like, if you can't get to the point where you're making 30k, like effectively profit is what you're saying.

Yeah.

Like two, three years, then you're probably doing something wrong. In my opinion.

I think the best route to go because I always thought I was late to the party when I started because I was on 2019. I always thought, wish I was around in 2017 when dropshipping, like when you kind of got into it. That was around that time and like, you know, scaling 800k months. But I feel like there's been.

Yeah. Not investing any of it in Ethereum, though, because I fucking didn't know anything.

Yeah, it coulda woulda, but there's been a resurrection on that side of things. But in TikTok, so it's like the same opportunity but with 10 times as much exposure to what drop shipping is. Because that is so easy. Like, you know, just searching hashtags and TikTok.

Even Franco, that came on yesterday in the episode 18. Yeah, actually this episode came up before, but he was fucking 18. And I'm sat there thinking, jesus Christ. I feel like an old cunt that doesn't know shit compared to what I didn't know shit compared to him at 18. But everyone's different.

Yeah.

And everyone's timeline's different, but. Yo, fellas, quick one. First bit of promo for the pod. You may or may not have heard I released a fucking E comm course a few months ago. Basically spent like six months making it because I was in between businesses, as you probably know, if you follow my shit, I must say, 12 hours long. It's fucking quality content. I was gonna drop it at like 1500 quid with some bullshit guru y webinar and all that rubbish, but as you know, it's not my main thing. I'm working on a new brand right now. Very, very fucking much in the trenches, which is why I think it's actually a better course than everything else out there because it's built on real experience of my brands in the past and my current one. I think it's super, super valuable. If you're interested in ecom, you're already in E to get into Ecom 0 to 1 starting a brand from scratch, then definitely worth investing in. Link is in the bio of this video or podcast, Spotify, Apple, Music, wherever the you're listening or watching and enjoy the rest of the pod. Yeah, I think that answer that question. Let's move on to another one.

Yeah, okay. So this is good ones, huh?

Pick out good ones. Enjoy these.

Yeah, yeah. I mean this is about budget as well. So I mean I'll pick a few kind of starter questions because I'm sure there's a lot of people who want to start. Colin, what would you say the best approach is to launching an econ brand with a low budget is able to be done with only $200? If so, what steps should you take and how would you allocate it?

Yeah, I mean I always think about this because when I started in the econ space, I literally had no money. As In I had 40 quid in my bank account. I was working the burger bar. So like I don't have, I've never been given money until recently where I raised investment, but that's a different ball game. Anyway, we'll get on to that. So I was definitely there and I think most people actually are like people kind of use the fact I don't have money to start as an excuse was that first you get a part time job and everyone can get a few grand together. I, I literally wasted a few grand working in John Lewis in 2015 on my first clothing brand, Gentry Club and I put it into stock and I sold 200 quid of it and I was like, fuck this. So that, that's like proper fucking from the bottom. But I mean $200 is enough. Yeah. So when he says brand, I mean you're not gonna be buying custom stock if you've got $200. So by brand you could definitely start a drop shipping website that is branded. You've got your own logo, your own name, all that sort of shit. Yeah, I think you'll struggle with $200. I think maybe like 1-2k is a good starting point if you're going to be running ads. Although now you can run TikTok organic on Twitter, make it 100 grand in a month, profit legit, pinch of salt with that shit.

But I think taking a step back, the biggest skills that are going to move the needle are the psychological element of what makes things go viral. Because ultimately, if you have no budget, you're going to start organic. That's just like a fact.

If you have $200, you cannot run out of $200.

No. So at that point, if you only had 200. $200 to spend, you'd be. I'd be going through TikTok, looking at all the videos that have gone viral. What, you know, like, Tick Tock, maybe buy all that stuff and seeing what the hook is. Like, how long is the video, what captions did they use, what sort of product is it? Like, all these things kind of compound to make a video go viral. And you got to understand that and replicate the process with similar or similar products or, like, you know, things they don't have to be because all these Facebook products, they're making, like, a resurrection on Tick Tock. So look at what used to work and do it on TikTok. Yeah.

And also just do fucking everything by yourself. Like, I don't think people realize that. Like, I mean, even now, like, I do pretty much everything myself with this new brand. Even though I've got a load of money behind it, like, to an extent. But like, even like Midnight City back in the day, like, I. I used to film all the ads. It's like three years ago, I used to film all the ads. Not all of them, but a lot of them. Just me speaking about the product, looking like a fucking retard to the point where I got recognized in Bali because Don saw my ads. And then obviously with Neon beach as.

Well, like, fucking all that shit was in my bedroom.

I reckon my bedroom's the most viewed bedroom in England in 2020.

What did that video get? The Neon one?

Oh, there was multiple. With 10 million plus views.

Yeah.

And it's like tier one countries.

We were saying how, like all these.

Even when. My point is, even when you've got money, you should still be fucking hustling to do it yourself if you can. But you should build those skills when you have no money right at the start. No money and experience, more importantly.

Yeah. People overlook as well how many skills actually required at the start to kind of. Or how many you need to know. Because ultimately you get to be a jack of all trades at the start. You're going to outsource everything you want to know. The content, creation, how to schedule an ad if you're not doing organic, how to make a Converting website. It matters less when you drop shipping because it's like you get the impulse buyers who would buy from a dropshipping store or the kind of people.

A point on that. She just like, more broadly is like, you're not gonna make any online business work if you're not a smart cunt. Like, basically, like, you have to have a level of just like hustle and wits about you to be good at anything. Like. But I think the competition and standard is so low, especially like culturally these days. Like, Don's just. I'm probably at canceled for saying this, but, like most doms just don't do much. They literally just watch TV and after they get like, they go to work or they go to uni, whatever it is. Like, if you're just even learning from YouTube videos, I think you're in the top, like 5% potential hustle or ability.

Yeah, yeah, I can't. The amount of hours I spent just watching YouTube videos, watching like courses and shit back at uni, I was doing that instead of the. Yeah, yeah.

That's like the first Facebook groups as well.

So accessible. Even this pod, mate. Like, the value from this pod.

Can't watch all 32 episodes.

Yeah.

Learn something then. The problem is you.

Yeah.

So, yeah, there's so much free shit out there. Like there's literally shit from fucking people that. Way better than anyone we've had in this. Well, certainly way better than me for free. Like so much shit. So.

Yeah. Should we wrap that question?

Yeah.

Start organic, basically.

Yeah.

Okay. How do you stay productive? What does an average day look like for Mathesus? I added that bit. Yeah.

I mean, I guess my days have been fairly similar over the past few years, probably for a lot of entrepreneurs in general and specifically like ecom entrepreneurs. I think the first point. How do you stay productive? I'm definitely not productive all the time. Like some I go through phases. I think the one guiding thing that's always. Literally the past five years that has guided my day is a list, the power list, which I got from Andy Frisella, MF CEO Podcast. Best podcast ever. If you want to get into entrepreneurship, go listen to every 365 episodes. It's basically just writing the five things you need to do tomorrow to move the fucking needle in your life. And you write it the night before. And I still do that today, so that guides the entire day. Don't always get it all done, but it might be literally as simple as buy a domain, register a Shopify account, and, I don't know, fucking Find a, find a product to launch with, like. And even now I have a list. Like what was on the list today? Fucking I don't know. I think one of the things on the list was confirm who is running TikTok Organic for launch. Because I was like toying between three guys on Twitter and talk about Triple S. Yeah. So that's what guys, my dad, Triple.

S. We weren't just basic. I think the thing about Triple S, which is a program we kind of made, but it's more the mental and physical side that contributes to like just being an all round killer. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. I think routine is most important thing. I thought what does an average day look like? I mean genuinely, I get up at like 8. I fucking. I used to get up earlier. I probably do like deep work from like 8 to like 1 fucking eat lunch. I don't eat breakfast. I eat lunch. Fucking walk the dog in the afternoon now. Then I do a bit more work. Then I go to the gym at like four Usually that's like two hours. Then I come back, eat dinner and then like do like creative shit in the evening.

I mean what was your. What's.

I don't really do anything. We don't really do anything other than certainly Monday to Friday. Like, I don't really. What? I don't watch TV or anything like that. I just never have. I just don't actually. Don't care. Like it's not even. I'm trying to be a hustler. I just don't enjoy it compared to.

Working on TV's fucking small.

Yes.

Yeah. I think finding your flow is definitely because ours is similar but different at the same time. I go to bed a bit later, you go to bed a bit earlier, get up earlier. It's like I just find that works for me. So it's not like a cookie cutter thing, what you find. Another question just on that for you. What, what are you. Are you finding it hard to do shit now? Because obviously you're waiting for product. How much have you got to do?

The past six months were fucking weird because. And it's been pretty much bang on six months since I left the whole Neon Beach Midnight City Wayflyer set up behind and I went solo again. And I literally from scratch was like, I need to build a business. And then I spent the past five, five, six months working on that alongside the pod and shit, which is like casual. And I was like, fuck yeah, I don't have that much to do. But then it kind of. You literally don't really when you're starting something like it's kind of. It's not really a full time thing until you have customers. And then in the past like month I've suddenly felt like I got busy because products on the way have been shooting loads of content and shit. And then when it's like when it rains it pours.

Yeah, 100%.

And now for the next probably fucking five years I'll be busy as shit again. Which I like at least you've had.

More attention to detail on branding and shit. Which ultimately I think is gonna separate you from every other brand that's doing anything remotely similar because that's like your source. I think genuinely like branding is such a important thing. Like there's so many. The COVID boom and you had all these drop shippers coming to the scene like this like what we saying earlier. Yeah, they're dropping off now.

Get onto that. Reckon. But yeah. Do they even answer the question? I suppose I think the power list and having some sort of routine is great and you have to make your own routine, do your own shit and that's the biggest difference to having a job or being in uni or being at school or whatever it is. It's like if you don't do it, no one will do it and if you don't get up and do something, nothing will happen in your life.

Yeah, like period.

It doesn't exist. Obviously when you got a job you're kind of told what to do to an extent.

Yeah.

So I think headline.

I think a lot of questions not even on here but it's something that I used to think about. Well something I used to do but found hard because obviously you'd be occupied with a full time job let's say or at uni or whatever and you only have a certain amount of time in the day to exert your efforts into ecom or making something. How. How would you allocate your time to like making ecom biz work for like for the first question, for example, when he's. He's in the rat race.

I think it's as simple as like most people finished work by what I'm probably home by 6 7pm 6. Probably most people.

You don't go to.

Bed till at least 10. Most people like just stop watching TV, stop watching Netflix. I know it sounds cliche but if you want to fucking move the needle, you don't do that stuff. People spend hours scrolling through social media just even if it's as simple as promising yourself I would Dedicate an hour per day which you can get a fucking lot done in an hour per day by the way. Just put your phone away.

You got any more though?

If you want it. Yeah you do but like to start. Well to start with like even fucking 15 minutes a day like probably committing to something is better than nothing cuz. Yeah and it is harder if you got a job and stuff. Like I have mates that I spoke to recently from back home that like full time job, they want to get into stuff but honestly they're just entrepreneurs. Like you know they would have done it seven years ago if they're really into it but I think just putting time aside and at the end of the day like if this comes back to the original point, if you actually fucking want to like build something more than you want to breathe basically then you've always got time. Simple as that. Yeah, that just isn't an excuse.

That's what it takes isn't as well.

Yeah, exactly.

I'll speed through some, some and we'll just get quick answers because there's quite a lot.

You don't have to answer all of.

Them anyway but no, no I'm just gon pick and choose and while you're answering I'll look through some shit. Generally wonder how it can, how can you spare one? So going from idea to product in hand like the product development side and then you've had a lot of kind of experience especially with this brand. Like.

Yeah. So what's the question?

It's. I mean the question is kind of there in terms of like talk about going from idea to product. Like what's the process going for. Yeah, for physical product development.

Yeah.

I mean specifically the space.

I've got a lot of experience with that now I suppose. I think it's, it's very, very. Again it requires a lot of skills and a lot of context to do it in general and to do it well. As in if you, if you put most people in a room with this, what I said before, if you put most people in a room with a million quid and a laptop and six months and they're trapped in the room and had to build a business or brand, they still couldn't do it. Because most people assume if I had all the money in the I don't have money like that that's the get out of jail free card. I don't have money so I can't do it. But it's not true because it's fucking difficult. But I guess to summarize how I'VE done it in the past and probably particularly with this brand because it's like a completely custom product from scratch. Maybe I can get on to how I came up with the idea in the first place later on, but starts with get having an idea of what you want to make, which basically will come from, you know, looking what else is on the market. Like, how can you improve it? How can you change it slightly to fit a certain niche, how could you make it a better version? And just. I always build products around what I want myself because otherwise how the fuck could I know what anyone else would want, like? And that's the most enjoyable for me. So, yeah, figuring out what you want. So you want X product, roughly. The next step is probably a lot of people get stuck is finding who the fuck can actually make it. So whether that's a UK manufacturer, like it is in my case, China, Alibaba.

Google it as well.

Google fucking, I don't know, shoe manufacturer Europe and go through 100 listings and email 50 of them. And then you start to get conversations. How much might it cost to make? What's the minimum order quantity? All right, so I need five grand to make this product. Potentially. If it's another product, maybe I'd need a grand. If it's another type of product, maybe I need 50 grand. So like just, just get an idea of what you could do and then from there ultimately it comes down to.

How the market reacts as well. I reckon. It's like if you get a sample, you can make content with it. So just make exactly everything sounds cheap. Like, yeah, see how the market even.

Buy from other brands is almost cheaper than buying a sample because you can pay retail rather than sample price. And then, yeah, I guess you fucking then go into like design phase. Like, what's the brand gonna be? What's gonna look like, how much gonna cost? How long is it gonna take? Have you got a physical sample of your own versions for the next step? You then spend maybe probably a few months tweaking it and then ultimately you put an order in and you buy stock. But that in a summary is kind of it. And I think the two things of that requires most of is, well, three things. It's an awareness of what you want to do, then it's a knowledge of how to do it and then it's ultimately capital to fucking make it happen. So yeah, yeah, that's how you do it.

Okay, when, when space is coming out, that's a big question. Everyone's.

Yeah, probably like two weeks. I'm literally Waiting on everything. Everything is done pretty much now. I just, I, I could have, I reckon I could have done quite a decent amount of revenue just organically pre ordering it. I didn't want to do that. I made that mistake in the past with Midnight City and stock didn't land two months later and Trust Pilot got fucked. I'm looking at I think Monday the 9th of April. Look, I'd literally spoke to supplier today. Is that Monday the 9th? It's around then. So 9th of April? Ish. So about two and a bit weeks. So like two weeks on Monday.

Cool.

I think. Alright, next question. This might be the most knowledge ever dropped on a pod.

Next question. Many, many people start brands. Few scale to 7, 8.

Oh, I read this one. It's quite deep.

Yeah. Few scale to 78 things. What separates your group of mates?

Yeah, I mean it's a good question but again like just to preface that, like I've scaled to seven figures with a brand. I'm a drop shipping. I scaled eight figures with a brand and then it, which I was very public about, probably more than anyone has ever been and obviously, yeah, and I'm very, very, very confident I can scale this next brand to at least eight figures. But it comes from experience but I guess to bring it back, I think, yeah, it's easy to forget that a lot of people try and start ecom brands and literally don't get anywhere with it. It's probably most people to be honest. I think a few things, I think base level of like potential skill plus like actually being a fucking doer, which is very, very rare and plus like years of actually trying which certainly for me has been the case. I've literally been doing this like seven years, been in it full time for five years, which is mad. And then on top of that probably the most important factor is because he's like alluding to like a group of mates. You end up building a group of mates because if you have certain success and certain experience and certain qualifications in the game, you then attract other people that also have that and then that's probably when it becomes most powerful is that you end up compounding each other's success level of performance because you're all doing it like. Yeah, it is unique. Like literally got all my mates running seven or eight figure businesses in their twenties. Like literally like minimum multi seven figures.

I mean I didn't know like how long ago when Fred introduced you?

About two years ago maybe.

Yeah, two years. But it's genuinely like law of attraction when these common interests what, bring people together in the first place.

Yeah.

And then when you get to a level which takes like, you know, the seven, eight figure mark doesn't necessarily come in the first year. And more often than not, yeah, it doesn't come in the first year. It's like third. There's a lot of compounding. And then we say a lot. It's like when it rains, it pours and all the nuts and bolts and shit that you've been putting together for years to all these iterations, whether it's logistics or product development, everything, it all comes together and then everything just fucking works. And that's just, that's when it's commitment because you're putting a shit ton of efforts get there. So I think what separates, I think our group as well, like, we're fucking committed and that's like probably the biggest part. And then the, the, the skill level as well is.

Well, yeah, but you become the average of the five people hang around with and like, again, it's a fucking cliche, but it's literally the most true thing in the world. And then people hear that and they're like, okay, well, fine. But none of my mates or my people around me are into entrepreneurship or whatever. It ultimately comes down to find new mates. Not that you should sack off your old mates because I have loads of mates that aren't entrepreneurs. Well, not loads, but like, good day one mates from back home and shit. And they'll always be my mates. But yeah, I think you need to put yourself in a position to meet those people. And that in itself is like, takes balls and takes hustle, like I've said a billion times. I literally got an economy ticket to Singapore when I was 20 or 21 and went to this event. And I credit that event. It was a shit event, really, in hindsight, but the people I met there, like, the content of it was just fucking mean spec.

But then taking a step back, I.

Met loads of people, like, and then some of them are my best mates now and they, they literally had the butterfly. I wouldn't have met Fred three years ago. I met that one person there that I then met someone else from, who then recommended I go and meet Fred. Yeah, for example. And everyone follows Fred.

Your friends aren't going to make you rich, though. Like, that's. I think that's the biggest thing. It's all well and good finding people who are in the same space for your own sanity, because your life becomes econ when you're in the, in the scene. So having other people to bounce off is sick but you have to put the commitment in yourself and you know.

I think the basic way to go, you have to do something yourself in the lonely trenches first. Yeah, it was drop shipping back in the day. Yeah and building a brand at uni with my one mate at the time, Ollie, that was interested who's now running saw. And then yeah, if you like ultimately you attract similar people. But also like we said on a previous board, you have to put some content, you have to put yourself out there a little bit. Whether that's just going to an event or whatever it is like, you know, you're not going to meet like minded people that are on the same page just in the pub statistically. So yeah, yeah, having the answers the question but ultimately comes down so you gotta be fucking like at least decent on what you do. And that comes by putting in the graft initially. Like you're not gonna meet people that are a high level inverted commas if you've not done anything basically.

So yeah, agreed. This is quite interesting because I mean it's a metric that kind of goes beyond the beginning level of starting an ecom brand. What was your returning customer rate goal for space goods? Does that make this a fucking. Yeah, I mean, good metric to build.

I was very intentional in terms of what I wanted to do when I came out the previous two brands I literally, literally sat down for like two months, not like two months flat, I mean like over about two months. And like reverse engineered the market I wanted to get into, which is the first time I've ever done that by the way, because everything else is very much just oh, I like jewelry, let's launch that. Oh, it worked. Oh, I like neon signs. There's probably an opportunity here. This time I was a bit more engineered and calculated and the key thing for me was I wanted a massive product margin, like 80% plus which you get in this product and generally supplements. I wanted a consumable which I'd never done before because subscription LTV, etc. And I wanted something that was fairly what compared to other shit? Not that crowded yet because it was a market that's kind of surfacing now, especially the way I'm positioning it. It's very new. So returning customer, I mean Chrysler, I'm not really sure but the whole, the whole like metric it comes down to in terms of like guys like Jimmy from Hair Burst as well that I spoke to about it, who had a consumable brand is like CAC to LTV ratio basically or LTV to cac, whichever fucking way you put it around, you know, if someone's going to spend £30amonth, say roughly 300 quid a year, then you can spend, you know, you can spend 150 quid potentially to acquire them or even 200 quid if you've got an 8% product margin. Not necessarily on the front end because if they're paying monthly and shit. But that's basically the key metric. So returning customer. Right. I mean, I guess they're saying how many people. Well, how many people come back? I mean obviously the goal is not for them just to come back, is for them to subscribe indefinitely. Basically that's like the key goal with any subscription brand. I think like for example with Huel, which is like probably a billion pound.

Company at this point, 80 plus or.

Some, I'm not sure but like I've been buying fuel since literally like five years ago. Not every month, but I think I've, I think my, I must have spent a thousand quid on fuel in the past like year, 18 months.

Yeah.

I haven't cancelled it because I take it every day.

Yeah. The amount of subscriptions I have that are just, I forget about and just can't be asked to cancel.

So yes, I suppose, like what's the returning customer? I mean I hope that off the top of my head like at least 50% of people that try it would want to subscribe to it. I don't know if that's realistic number but ultimately like the headline metric is LTV to cac, which I don't know how high that would be, but at least like 2 to 3 plus to be probably viable for scaling.

Yeah.

But it's my first time in the consumable space, so. Yeah.

From who I've spoken to as well in terms of like when you're going for exit and what's. What metrics are considered good. 30% is pretty good benchmark. Anything above is like obviously exceeding the benchmark. Okay, what mindset hurdles have you had to tackle building the biz and how did you do it? That's very relevant.

Yeah, I mean I'd say I like splitting things into three. Like I feel like the first mindset hurdles for me were when I was first getting started and I hadn't done anything and I literally was working at a burger bar while running Facebook ads on my lunch break. Like it's not even, it's not a sob story because fucking most people start like that, but that's literally how it started. So that was the first mindset thing. No one else around me is doing it. I've never seen anyone be successful, but I want to do this shit. So that's the first thing, like, broadly, which probably most relatable to most people. I think the next mindset thing was when I was like, 22, when I started making, like, big money drop shipping. She's quite fucking young, to be fair. Like, doing the revenue I was doing, it's doing like 500 grand a month. Probably average, like 22. Back in the Bali days, what was.

The mindset when was 800k a month?

That was November 2018. So 23 would have just turned. Yeah, that's big numbers, to be fair.

That was free plus shipping.

Yeah.

Days. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I guess what was the mindset then? The mindset hurdle? I mean, it's probably loads of things. I'm trying to split it into, like, tangible categories. I think then actually went through a mindset of like, oh, fuck. Like, this dropshipping is working so well, but it feels like easy money. And I didn't. And I wanted to build a brand, so I started building brands. Dusk Clothing brand and like, Gentry Club and shit. Way before I got into dropshipping, I just got into drop shipping because I needed to make cash and it fucking worked. And I built the base skills and Facebook was cheap. So the mindset then when I stopped dropshipping, like the end of 2018 and was like, let's go cold turkey. I've made like 300 grand in the bank. This is great. I want to build a brand again. So that was kind of probably one notable hurdle. I think the biggest hurdle was fucking last year when Neon beach went bankrupt, like, as everyone fucking knows, like. Yeah, I was literally suicidal about that for about six months. It was absolutely hell on earth for me. I think that that, like, January, I mean, the primary period was like, November 2020 to March 2021, when I basically got bailed out by fucking fund at Wayflyer.

What was the light at the end of the tunnel at that time? Because obviously you couldn't. Nothing could have gone worse in your.

Head because you genuinely think, other than, like, family or personal health issues, which unfortunately I haven't had in, like, the past year. I don't think it could have got much worse as a young entrepreneur.

Yeah. So what was the light at the end of the tunnel that got you through that then? Like, the hurt, especially that being such a big part of your life.

It wasn't much like the end of a tunnel for a long time. I mean, like, the first thing was I have to fucking. Someone's got to put seven figures into this situation to fix it. So that was the four, four month focus, making that happen, which ultimately did happen. I learned a load dealing with like lawyers and shit. I basically had like crippling anxiety 18 hours a day and no one around me knew what was going on. Yeah, no, that was the best thing. And then there was a bit of pressure off when ultimately I basically became an employee in my own business with 20 equity. And yeah, I was like, fuck. Like, this is like comfy now. But I'm now not doing at all what I wanted to do, which is build my own thing and get really rich doing it.

What was that phase like of being.

In the six months, six months from March to September 2021. And then I got. I literally got offered. Do I want to stay on and get a bit of equity in this group that they're building and a big fat salary, which by the way would have been like 1% top, you know, like 1% money, whatever. And 99% of people will be like, that's a fucking amazing opportunity, take it. But I just, I guess the light at the end of the tunnel was it would be such a great story if I go through all that shit and then I go on to build an actual monster brand, which is always what I've wanted to do. I've never done it yet because I've never been consistent enough.

Yeah, maybe knowing you could overcome the situation.

And so that's why I've been so gassed, like finally getting this, this thing to light in like the past month. So I don't think people realize, like, the mental hole I was actually in when all my creation died previously, like, literally. Hell, like, I don't know. That changed me as a person, to be honest.

And, well, we speak about this a lot. I think your experience is compounded in the right ways to create something even bigger.

So, yeah, I believe, not in an arrogant way, but just in like a fucking fate kind of way. Like, if I can't make this next brand work with the experience and I've got now especially the negative experiences which drive me even more, then it's like, fuck, I don't know who can.

It's nothing to lose mentality. Yeah, honestly, that's fucking dangerous.

Like, I feel quite dangerous. Yeah, it's just like, fuck, let's just have fun with it, enjoy the process and see how fucking big I can take it. Yeah, lit.

All right, next one. And this is another kind of Disclaimer just to answer the comparison between space kids and psychedelics.

Yeah, so this has been an interesting point. So the whole like billion dollar brand idea, right is that I believe, I mean it's happening already all over the world. Like the legalization of psychedelics, like they were back in legal back in the 60s. That's why it's called like the renaissance is happening again. I believe is like it's going to be the biggest thing for like healthcare and wellness and new product brands in like the next decade. And I keep saying it because it's easy to understand, but it's like I think it's 10 to 15 years behind CBD in the, in the sense that cannabis used to be seen as super. I've never really been into weed and but like cannabis used to be seen as, you know, like some loser in his mum's basement would smoke it and now you have, obviously it's not the exact same as cbd but you know, I have middle aged women that will take CBD drops, taking a kid to a private school and like so many more normal things. So yeah, the long term vision is psychedelics are still illegal pretty much everywhere. But I think that's changing. So I want to build a brand that's ready to build beautiful micro dosing effectively. Products like gummies, powders, cans which don't exist in the world legally yet by the way, pretty much anywhere apart from parts of Canada where it's a bit of a gray area. But it's not a psychedelic in version one. It's the best legal alternative. So what I mean by that is like Lion's man mushroom, Cordyceps mushroom. Like basically a very potent, a genuinely very potent and powerful and strong. Way stronger than like 99 of other brands intentionally blend of adaptogens, mushrooms and nootropics basically. But the way I'm positioning it is very controversial and polarizing and probably a bit confusing is because it's, I'm saying it's a microdose imitation which is kind of just a marketing angle in a way when it works because people are questioning it. Yeah, I mean it's, it's not. This isn't the first time this product's ever been put together. That's what I'm saying, like in terms of ingredients and shit. However, the way I'm publicly saying I really want to build a psychedelics brand and this is what the brand is kind of all about. But we can't do that just yet because it's illegal. That's very different. And I think that is important as well because the brand getting the reach it will get, it almost becomes like fucking. That's gonna help push that market into. Into reality. And I want to be the brand that's pioneering that, particularly in the UK because like we're a few years behind like Canada and America and all this sort of shit. So it was the same as cbd.

I think Neon gave you that first movers advantage experience because that was like, then, now you've been there, you know, like what Mark? Like the feeling you get when you enter a new market that hasn't been captured yet and the fucking crazy metrics that come with that. It's almost like you've identified a new market for that and you want to chase that same exponential growth from something that now hasn't been made yet.

For me, this market and this brand genuinely feels like the perfect combination of something I'm creatively interested in because it allows me to like pink shit. And it makes sense of the brand of like. I just love that it's a product and a market that I genuinely believe is very early in a very potentially like multi tens of billions pound market, maybe even a trillion pound market. And it's something that I personally use and I'm fascinated by in terms of like, use psychedelics, I use nootropics, all this. So I'm building it for me first and everyone else like me.

One of the other questions was how does it make you feel? And I think like in terms of when you use Space Kids. Yeah, because you're using it already. Like.

Yeah, I've been using it the past. Well, I've used like similar shit before and I basically, you know, the way I build products is take what's there and make it better and make it my own version. But like literally I ran out of some like the two days ago and I was just having coffee and it definitely feels different. I mean the three primary things with the first product, Rainbow Dust version one is focus, calm and energy. Really. So without the crash. Without the crash, yeah. Take it once a day and feel those things really. I mean it is different to just having a coffee. There is caffeine in the products. Some people don't like the fact there's caffeine in the products. But again, like I said, I'm building it for me. I personally think having caffeine in the product makes it overall a better product, but it's ultimately a work mode product. Like that's where I was starting. Like, I think there's three primary categories I'd like to get into in the next like two years. And they are the focus slash, like create category, like get your head down deep, work, make happen, sleep I think is a massive one. And then actually being a product category around sex could be very interesting because there's a lot of brands that are starts pop up in that space and it's still pretty taboo, but it's fucking worldwide obviously.

And it's very Viagra equipment or what?

Yeah, I mean like Viagra I guess would be classed like medicine rather than like supplement but shit like tabs, chocolate that if anyone's in money Twitter, they're kind of going into that space. So. Yeah. But ultimately to answer how it feels, it's basically a work mode product.

Yeah.

And it gets you in a great state and I genuinely know it's a massive difference and I think everyone else will.

So cool.

That's what it's all about.

To start with little switch up. How important is creativity as an entrepreneur and how do you cultivate your own creativity?

To be honest, like I, I started in this whole entrepreneurship thing. I'm definitely more of a creative naturally than I am a business person. But I'm also very good at being very. I reckon I'm very competent at a lot of things which I mean you have to be as anyone is that runs a brand like we said before. But I definitely think where I'm better than most people, like, and even they would probably say themselves like better than most of my mates that by the way made more money than me. A few, a lot of them is just like the whole branding and marketing side and ideas. So I think particularly with this new brand, like I've just really fucking just gone balls deep with like the whole branding thing and it feels like the culmination of all the other shit I've done and I'm kind of just having fun with it, to be honest. And I've stopped even calling myself like in my Instagram bio, an E Comm entrepreneur because it's not about just econ. I've changed. It's like designer and entrepreneur, whatever. But that is actually how I feel. So I guess I'm very creative, probably more than most entrepreneurs, I guess like design wise.

How do you cultivate it?

I mean, how do you cultivate it? Fucking take rainbow dust. No, honestly though, like, I think.

Yeah.

I think cold mate creativity, because I. I'll go through phases where it's like writer's block, whatever it's all about, you have no ideas. Whereas in the past month I Think I've had more ideas than I've ever had in my fucking life.

I think one thing on that though, when you notice when you look back, like if you're on Shopify, what's that time time machine thing? You look at your old sites you used to make and.

Yeah, like even Neon beach two years ago. Yeah, it's not that long. It was honestly a pile of shit. Like automatically.

You must have thought at the time it was good. Like I did. Yeah. Like it's crazy to see how that.

Just proves that experience and like just context and doing certain things a lot.

And your creative eye, you like tune your eye over time by seeing so many competitors. Like the deeds face is very like pastel colors and all that stuff. Like you just see that and emulate it in your own practices. I guess one interesting thing that we were discussing, I found, I found out for the first time that we both wanted to be film directors when we were younger. And it's like I think that part in terms of being creative, it's a quite a. I'd say it's quite. For me and you, I'd say it's a pretty natural thing. That started when we were young and then now it feels like we're making a live movie to the world.

Yeah, so true. I think most like E. Comm. Specifically entrepreneurs, to get started, it usually comes from a place of like artistic or creative passion. I know like Fred started Sanucci, he won't mind me saying, because he was really into like hip hop music. He wasn't even into business, he just fucking loved hip hop and then that was his outlet. And for me, like, yeah, probably I like used to design logos. That was literally it. That was the one in too. And then I was like, oh fuck, what could I do with this logo? Oh wow. I could actually make my own brand. Fuck.

And that's the passion for the process which makes it impossible to quit. Because you love.

Yeah, exactly. Rather than being like, and I want to make money. You see it all the time. And like I've seen it recently. Like you'll get some don that's like a bit older and they're fucking trained as an accountant or like maybe they're a high paid lawyer and now they want to start a brand and they're fucking clueless because they have no creative baseline from where it comes from and it's already forced. And I mean a lot of those people by the way, build great businesses because they've come at it from a slightly more experienced way. But I Think the majority of people that watch this, especially younger people, when they get inside, it usually stems from a creative interest. But how to cultivate it. For me, like in terms of getting in like the zone and shit, I think just fucking. I listen to a lot of music, I watch a lot of shit. I like Pink Lights. Like everything just helps me get in that space. And for me, yeah, basically everything in my life that I enjoy comes from like wanting to make shit feel like a movie.

Yeah, 100%.

That really is it.

Yeah. So cool.

Find your own flow.

I mean, there's loads of questions. Yeah, there is quite a lot. Who are your mentors or people you follow? Not. I'll let you answer, but I don't.

Think I would ever say until like maybe the past few months that I would have even now. But like we get into that. I never had a mentor beforehand. Like my mentor was just YouTube.

Yeah.

As it is for everyone.

Yeah. 100%.

Don's always say, like, especially like Americans, who's your mentor and shit? Like, what do you mean? Like walk down the street, meet a billionaire. Why would he mentor me?

Yeah. See, I think it's a very fluffy word. Like the same as like entrepreneur. Like everyone likes to overuse it and say, who's your mentor? I think our mentors are mates just purely based on the, the high level conversations that we have and enjoy and can bounce off each other and then that in itself just helps us all to grow together and it's. I think that's why. Yeah. I mean, mental wise, as you say. YouTube.

Yeah. Never really have one. Like follow certain people which everyone fucking has access to. Like I follow. I'd obsessively follow the founders of big brands, even ones that didn't have a personal brand. I'd let you find out. I'd go on company's house and find out who the fuck owns certain brands.

Yeah.

Like Jimmy actually being one of them. Like I followed him for three years. He's been on the pod, I guess more recently. Like I wouldn't even say I have a mentor now, but like some of my angel investors in the new business are kind of a bit more formally mentoring me. Alex Packham being one of them who sold his business content cow who was on episode 23. So I guess like that's kind of like a more formal thing. And then there's a lot. There's a few guys that we both kind of speak to that I guess are more informally kind of mentoring.

But they're like, they enjoy the conversations. Yeah.

People that you meet through an opportunity for them as well. Like potential investment is generally the opportunity.

Yeah. There's a big difference between paid mentorship and like mentorship that you've just earned through being their mate first kind of thing. Because you learn a lot from someone with experience. I think a lot of new starters who want to get in the space quickly will feel like they have to pay someone a lot of money to get this secret, like, recipe for making something work. And you just got to take it step by step and you're. You're almost better off grinding with that trenches mentality first. And you will find yourself in the right circles and whatnot because you've done the hustle that's got you to that place. And then once you get to that, once you get to that point of right, something's fucking working. I can talk about with other people who are doing similar. So you like bounce off of them. Then you naturally meet people you've had more experience than you and you learn from them and that's essentially they're your.

Mental, like the natural flow. It's just a ladder.

Yeah, yeah. Legit.

There's always people below you, so to speak. Like experience, wealth, connections, whatever is. And there's always people above you.

Yeah.

And you genuinely have access to people maybe a few years above you. And that comes through building shit and putting yourself out there. Because, like, even through this pod, I've met some mad connections like that are potential investors and kind of mentors in a way. But if I hadn't put myself out there and spoke about the experiences I had, I wouldn't have been, you know, like qualified to even meet in the first place. So. Yeah.

Cool. What our platforms are you going to be running? Space kids from off the bat.

Tick tock, Facebook, Google. That's it.

Yeah. Be a Snapchat or. No.

Now I wouldn't. I used to consider in terms of like the way I'd look at ad platforms, I would consider Facebook and Google being like tier one. I would look at, I mean, TikTok. I would previously have looked at stuff like TikTok and Snapchat as kind of tier two ad platforms. And then like tier three would have been like Pinterest, Taboola, Adroll, like programmatic, like Hulu Rats. Yeah. Whereas now I would consider the big three tier one to be TikTok, Google, Facebook.

Yeah.

And then kind of everything else is tier two at this stage.

Snapchat is working for some people at a high level.

Yeah. I've never, never heard about it being like number one, like tier one focus, though, in terms of spend in a.

Couple, like maybe two years ago. A year ago, it was 40% of Rev for me pre. And then iOS 14 hit fucked it all up. And then it was just obviously Facebook, Google now. Yeah, I mean, it's working again now, to be fair, but I think if you have the dimensions, like, for example, if you're making TikTok ads and you've got. You've got the dimensions for TikTok, you may as well recycle that content onto any other platform that you know.

Yeah, like, I literally haven't. I'm not even fucking sold a pouch yet. Right.

Yeah.

It comes down to just focusing on what I instinctively know from experience will have the most impact and also keeping shit quite simple.

Yeah, yeah.

So they're the three. They're the only three I'll be running to start with, certainly for the first probably six months.

What about organic as well?

Organic TikTok. I mean, organic, like YouTube, kind of. This is actually a pretty powerful platform. But yeah, currently think. I mean, I would get. I'll fill up like a pinch. I'll have someone run like the Pinterest. Organic, but it's not a main focus.

Yeah. I mean, you got asked this at the end of the last pod, but I don't know if you had time to think about top three biggest lessons you've learned from your journey so far.

Yeah, I kind of got asked, didn't I know. I mean, there's definitely been a lot top three at the top of my head.

Just do one and then move on.

To be fair, I think the first one. And again, it's kind of like the system mindset, but it actually does apply. I genuinely wouldn't take advice in any aspect of life from anyone that's not doing sort of what you want to do. Like, if you want to be an entrepreneur, run an ecom brand, you shouldn't be taking advice from parents. Well, parents, basically. And unless they're entrepreneurs, that's myself included. It pains me to say it, but it's just true. But like, maybe a more specific example, like, don't take advice from a uni lecturer who is maybe. And I've literally been there, like, they'll like, tell me that doing my own is stupid. Don't take advice on those people. Like, take advice from people on YouTube that are running businesses. They should become your initial mentors. So that's like the first thing, I think. Secondly kind of covers like, girls and like social scene and like people which probably big one that no one speaks about. Enough. Don't change who you know you are deep down to satisfy certain social crowds or situations. And what I mean by that is, like, there's probably like some don in uni right now who knows deep down they fucking want to be creative and like, I don't know, start putting like music videos out and like building like a streetwear clothing brand. But they don't do it because all the mates fucking do drugs every weekend and they don't want to be the one out. So I genuinely think don't. And that goes for like girls and shit as well. Or guys if you're a girl, or guys and girls if you're the other way around. Don't fucking. I've made that mistake as well. Don't bend who you are and what you want to do and the way you want to live to satisfy anyone else, particularly when you're young. Because I don't think you have to compromise. You'll end up attracting the people that should be in your life. And the ones that shouldn't be will eventually disappear. That's the second thing. Third thing, Just fucking get something done every day.

What percent of it?

Yeah. Honestly, like even when. And I've been had some fucking dark times, particularly in the past year, but I would always just get up and get something done because if you keep chipping away, something will happen. Like, people don't realize the power of like, nothing happens overnight. If you do something every day over like three months, literally.

I was gonna say we. Six months.

I didn't even have the idea for Space goods.

Yeah.

And now I think, now I'm utterly convinced it would be a minimum 100 million pound business.

Like you're one decision away from changing your life.

Yeah.

Like, it's deep, but it's true.

They're probably the three. I think they're pretty good ones. Top of my head.

Yeah. Sweet. So we got a guy. This is more of a case study.

So, yeah, there's a few of those.

Guys been working pretty hard for the last 2, 3 years. Hit 30k drop shipping slippers in summer, 21 results died. Wants to travel the world, all that shit. On the verge of taking a minimum wage job and he's gonna be miserable, etc. Actionable advice to avoid that situation.

What, because he's been dropshipping?

Yeah. He said he tried to replicate the drop shipping slippers or whatever and it hasn't worked for him. And now he's on the verge of taking the job route. Yeah, Yeah.

I think it's probably a lot of people like that and they would jump to the conclusion that it's like survivorship bias or whatever from anyone on this podcast that makes it work or whatever. It's difficult to put myself in that position. But I think. I think the most important thing when ultimately comes down to a lack of financial resource, means he has to do something he doesn't necessarily want to do. But even the lack of money, you can always put yourself in certain situations, which, for example, like even getting a minimum wage job, fucking go and give a CV to a hundred ad agencies and just say, I'll fucking, like make coffee for you if you let me just listen in on something. Like, that's better than making burgers in my dance.

Yeah. If you're gonna get a job, make it relevant kind of thing if you really want.

I think actually the better way to put that is there's the resource everyone always has, which most of it don't use is like Hustle and time. And it's like, kind of like Gary Be spec, but it's fucking true. And like, I guess the way I use that when I had zero money and was first getting started was I would fucking spend all my free time joining Facebook groups, learning about Facebook ads. Like, that's free to do, Jonah. So I suppose use what you have abundantly, which is hustle and time. That's the first thing. Because if you don't have money, you can't spend money on things and you might have to get a shit job. If you are getting a shit job or have to get a job or do what you don't want to do, at least do what you don't want to do in an environment which potentially has opportunity. Because, like, yeah, like the fucking. There is opportunity everywhere if you can prove that you're, like hard working and you're hustling shit. I think the third thing is, why am I putting everything into threes?

I think being more specific, this guy sold slippers. 30k, didn't work.

I'm assuming he's run out of money. So if he's run out of money, it's gonna be hard to suddenly start a new business. So that's why I'm treating it this way. I'm saying slippers and at least be pragmatic and make the best of a shit situation, if that's what's gonna happen. By putting yourself in a room or place, which you can do through hustle, which is free, by the way, that you might be able to get Something out of it. And then I think at the end of the day that comes down to ultimately if you've been doing something for years and you can't make it work, something is wrong with either your approach or lack of skills or something. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. I mean you're not going to be.

A professional footballer if by my age you're not in an academy. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I honestly think like Tick Tock Organic is, is a gold mine for people who actually just want to get started. For this guy specifically.

Yeah. I think make content as well. That's something I wish I'd done more when I was younger. I know Gary Vee says this shit, but he's actually right. Just filming on a phone, whether it's an iPhone 4 or an iPhone 13.

Yeah.

And just sharing who you are just gives you so much potential leverage in a lot of situations. Whether that's giving out a cv, I don't know, trying to meet people that potentially you could get like a part time job with or work experience with. So start building your personal profile and obviously if you don't have any experience or you haven't got any achievements so to speak yet, that might just be what you're interested in, what you want to do and just being honest about your situation because I. Even with this podcast, look, look at the impact that's had like on a small niche scale.

Yeah. I guess that just comes down to like what you're really in it for because the mention of traveling etc and he wants to be able to brand, I guess if you. Yeah. TikTok is for people who are just getting started. And the beauty of TikTok is you don't have to be a creative genius in terms of like the, the edits and stuff. Like TikTok is nice, like it has to look native to do well. So that's a blessing in disguise for someone who's not good at editing or whatever because like you can do a fucking phone video and it could go viral. So yeah, I mean, to be honest, I'd look at Facebook winning products, there's so many fucking videos on that. And just go through that list and see if you can do it on TikTok.

Yeah, you gotta go like war mode.

Yeah.

And I was in fucking war mode the past six months trying to like build my momentum again.

Yeah.

And particularly when you're like literally getting started and you basically let's. Assuming you have no money, no connections, experience, you've just got to go fucking like David Goggins mode and treat it.

Like a lab test. You have all the. You have like each product is a hypothesis of whether it work or not. You do X, Y, Z to see if it work. If it doesn't, move on to the next. Don't get emotionally attached. Just make sure you're doing it systematically so you're not getting caught up for too long on one thing and you just go from there. She knows. Good. Next one.

Yeah, yeah, I reckon do like five more maybe.

Yeah. Cool. Do you see space goods in retail?

Yeah, that'd be cool.

You're gonna say where? Because we've spoken about this.

But yeah, I will say where. I mean, again, this is from speaking to people like Jimmy, who's on the pod 7 can fucking go watch that. Like, I think like half of their business was retail. Like a lot of these big brands, not all of them, but a lot of these big brands, particularly ones that get big exits, they're not all econ, they're not one channel, they're like Omni channel, they're multiple channels and I kind of like envision this out. So like the way I want to start in terms of product category, like that's for type of products I saw it was like four main types potentially like supplement wise. Because I don't want anything to be like tablets and medical and all that shit. I want it all to be like enjoyable, creative, whatever. So the first product is a powder because it's very versatile and kind of easier to make, to be honest. The next product coming is going to be a gummy. But then after that I see like retail product opportunities being like canned drinks. I mean I've never done that before, but I think this could be fucking huge to have like a psilocybin canned drink and then stuff like bars as well and then potentially stuff like drops, I think could be cool in retail particularly because the packaging and brand is so mad compared to everything else out there. So yes, I do. In terms of where I'd want it to be, probably like Selfridges, Whole Foods, Soho House. There is a brand in sohe House right now through a competitor of mine. But their brand's shit.

They're not a water one. And so is that something else?

There's Trip CBD in so house as well. They're a sick brand in the CBD space. But yeah, I want it to be quite like up market kind of cool. Exclusive.

Well, Waitrose spec on that, I think.

Waitrose too mainstream. Yeah, thought about that. But yeah, the answer is yes.

Cool. Next one. Do you plan on documenting? Documenting the journey and the growth of space kids?

Yeah, I do. I mean the way I'm kind of doing that is basically partly through this podcast. And then I started using Twitter like six months ago and that's not, I guess, kind of blowing up. Like I built a pretty small like semi cult following on there because I've been sharing so much about building the brand and I reckon I'll continue to do that because firstly it's gonna be in 10 years time, it's gonna be super interesting to look back at. But secondly, I think it's just like it's only net beneficial to the brand. I think if you're authentic and share the process and for me that is the case. So yeah, I will go and follow me on Twitter links in the bio.

Cool.

It's top of your wine cunt.

Yeah. Do you want to do it while I find a question? Would you ever consider mentoring someone one on one guiding them?

No. Like people do DM me that like to be honest, I think I get. I give out way too much shit in terms of like I've literally got on calls with doms that message me from the podcast.

Don't say that you're gonna get an.

Influx half an hour. And I just was like, yeah, I'll do it. Because it felt like fucking nice things to do. I didn't charge them or whatever. And I replied to literally every single DM I get on Twitter and Instagram, which to be fair is quite a lot these days. It's probably at least like five to 10 a day, which I know is fucking nothing but influences and shit. But no, I just, I'm not at that stage to be one on one mentoring someone. I need to fucking build my own business and do that. So I just physically don't have the time for that. I'm happy to answer DMs and shit. And to be honest, that kind of is one on one mentoring in a way. But I don't know if someone wants to give me a hundred grand day rate then maybe I'll say yes. Yeah, no is the answer.

A couple more and I'll finish on a bit of a longer one.

So yeah, we could probably go fucking hours.

Yeah. Classic. What your daily non negotiables that have helped you level up.

That's a bit of a fucking neat question.

I didn't more like fitness and shit, I guess. That's what I got.

I think like some like shit that's always helped me in being consistent is I was. I like going to the gym and training hard. I've been running a lot recently but like that's been since I was 10 years old. Like I used to do football, then I was in rowing. I did rowing for eight years which fucking I probably credit is the single most important thing I ever did before going to entrepreneurship. So like training hard. I think that's one thing. The power list is another. I know again it sounds cringe. We touched on earlier like writing the list the night before for the next day. That is literally non negotiable. There's been a few days I don't do it probably 5% of the time but generally Monday to Friday I do that sauna.

Yeah.

I suppose like more recently like on the triple S program like the sauna.

Is a non negotiable but people are gonna be fucking.

It's not that deep because when I travel and shit we don't really do it but. But just I guess sauna slash meditation, you know visualization thinking about.

Yeah.

Not enough people spend time actively thinking instead of trying to do all the time.

Yeah.

And it's so powerful deciding what you actually want.

Yeah. And most of the times it comes your life whatever.

Yeah, it does legit like so other things.

Cool. So this a bit more technical so we'll enjoy talking about this question. To be fair it's quite good. So purple teeth by now. Yeah, legit. Can you do more technical pods talking about different parts of running a business, how to improve them. So like logistics marketing.

Do more of these Q and A to be fair. They'll be fucking banging.

Yeah.

Do one every other week.

That's what we talk about pretty much all fucking day. Just regurgitating our combos.

But that build your personal brand as well.

Yeah. Hell linking bio chaps.

Jack, was it? Yeah.

Conservio.

What's the question?

Yeah, so just like the. The different parts of running a business, how to improve them. So that's just logistics and marketing as to.

But isn't the question just do more pods on those things?

I mean yeah, but we can see what you're asking. He's just saying can you do more technical pods. Talking about. But why don't we just talk about that the actual technical parts of running a business. Logistics, marketing. Yeah.

Yeah. Alright. So this might be my like borderline autism but I've always. And it's the way I split it up my econ course as well. I've always thought of an E Comm business or just a business but I guess an e Comm business. This is literally how I structure my Google Drive and always has been for like five years. So I don't know how you do this shit, but I think of it as five categories. The first one is product slash brand, which to be honest is the biggest one. It's basically what is it? Second one is marketing. So how do you get it in front of people that might want to buy it? Third is logistics. So how do you make it real and make it move to customers? That's probably like the most complicated one. And the other two are like smaller but as in as important. The other one's customer service. So how do you fucking keep everyone happy? Which isn't always the case. And the fourth one is admin. So like accounting, fucking tax bullshit. So that's the way, literally the way I view a business.

Yeah.

And I think it's actually a very good way. So if anyone wants to steal that, they're the five categories. Product, brand, marketing, logistics, customer service and admin. And I think you can't go wrong structuring things like that in terms of like the way you organize Google Drive. I literally have five. I have the brand and then five. You could get five folders in Google Drive for each of those. Granted the first three are the most. The most busy.

Yeah.

Particular the first two. But that's how I think about it.

In terms of improving it as well. I mean, I'll kick off like an example for me and you can kind of just emulate with an example you have. So like one thing that has made such a big difference is knowing your fucking numbers. Like having a sheet, a calculator, even like get a guy from Fiverr or Upwork or whatever to create some sort of table that you can track every day and it breaks down everything cost, the true net profit. People overlook how much like you're actually losing from fees like fulfillment cost that everything. There's so many different fees that just take away your margin. And the quicker you understand what your true margin is, then the quicker you know how much you can spend to acquire a customer. So I think having clarity on that is like one of the biggest, biggest levers for like driving cash in the right areas to grow.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Customer service wise, like have you. What did you find? Excuse me, you have like a army of fellows.

I mean, I'm not the one that asked about customer service, so I went very wrong.

Yeah, but that's kind of a good example because like that's. You had a. You must have had a shit ton of customer service deal with how I guess gorgeous.

It was like 500 tickets a day at one point.

Yeah, that's mad.

I mean, to be fair, one thing I'm trying to get better at, it's probably not as relevant to, like, most. Listening to the pod is like, trying to like, fucking think by working on the business instead of in the business, because I love working on the creative parts of the business. And then I'll be like, like, would Elon Musk be doing this right now? Flippantly, like, what would a billionaire do? What would the billionaire superhero version of me do? Yeah, and I tweeted about that the other day, but like. Yeah, so that's kind of a technical part I'm trying to work on. Like, again, it's less relevant to like beginners and shit. But how can I start thinking like, you know, billionaire business owner in terms of removing myself from doing everything or like doing a lot of things still and actually like put shit in place, like systems in place. And it's still something I struggle with. I used to struggle with it even when the business had a million and a half quid a month coming in in revenue, like for a while, and I was still fucking doing like my own social media management. But yeah, everyone's got their own focus points and shit.

I think ultimately the most important thing is product and customer. Like, you got to make the customer happy. With. With TikTok being such a boom at the moment, all the dropshippers are having a frenzy because they don't have a page score that they have to look out for. Like, so you're Gonna Facebook in 2016. Yeah, you can finesse people, fine. You're gonna make money, but you're not gonna make a brand because u like, the product catches up with you and if you're selling a shit product, you can't brand it. You're not gonna get any repeat customers, I. E. You're not gonna create a brand. So like, in terms of getting repeat customers, in order to get there, you have to make a lot of things work in the business to, you know, you're better to over deliver than under deliver. We were saying. We were talking about this earlier. Yeah.

To be honest, the whole like e comm sphere, which is genuinely mostly like beginners to some extent and like Twitter and YouTube and stuff, it basically only ever talks about marketing.

Yeah, no one actually talks about market.

No one talks about product.

Yeah, like fucking people.

How you can spend this and get this back. No one fucking talks about the more important categories which the Number one most important thing is the products. That there's a fucking fact.

Yeah.

You can hide from that for a few months on dropshipping or whatever. Which I've done the past.

Let's elaborate on product because I think that's like newness and shit. Because that's. That was huge for me as well. And it's gonna be huge for space.

I think the biggest thing I learned actually from doing midnight to like 5 million in revenue. I think I got it to over like, over like two and a half years. Decent amount. And then neon, which is slightly different. But I never got right with those brands was. Was the newness. And that's what I'm trying to get right with this one. But like, people just love new shit. If you haven't got a flow of new products and like, you have to think like three to six months ahead with that shit.

Yeah.

Why? It's fucking hard. And most people never even get to the point where they're running a brand for long enough to even do that.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think product super important. Like, no one really talks about like logistics, I. E. Like fucking getting stock through customs and shit and like shipping it to people. And basically people only ever talk about marketing is what I'm saying.

Yeah.

So think about marketing is a way to get a great thing out to the right people. But it's not gonna help long term if you ain't got back in as well.

A good analogy that I heard recently was the whole like, you get taught how to take off and fly the plane and you're gliding, whatever. You don't get taught how to land it. So with that, I mean, the exit. When you get an exit, no one tells you how to deal with that whole process. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing. Like there's the mainstream and the mainstream topics with high CTR for these YouTubers who create and is. Yeah, I made 100 grand in a month. This is how I did. Like. Yeah, yeah. This, like, this is the ad strategy that I use. Whatever. But yeah, maybe. I mean, we'll probably. For another pod in terms of the tech. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the time? Would you still build space, kids, if you knew you would never make any serious money with it?

No. I'll tell you why.

Because.

And I'm honest enough to say that I. It's the perfect combination. I'm genuinely passionate about it creatively. I love doing wavy shit, but if I can never make any serious money with it, then I would never be able to achieve my Goal of getting filthy rich and been able to do like, helpful things in the world. So however, though, having said that, I'd rather build space goods and hypothetically get to a net worth of 5 million quid than build a tampon brand and become a billionaire.

Yeah.

But if I could never make any money like beyond where I'm at now doing space goods, then I wouldn't do it now because it's quickly touching a point, I think too many people in this society because it's become like full of champagne socialists, so to speak. And like the whole social media culture has become very left, I think, which is just a. Nothing wrong with that. But like a lot of people saying shit that they don't actually have any context or experience or anything to back up, I. E. People basically saying, like, money doesn't matter and like, oh, rich people are like fucking evil and shit. So no, the only way to have an impact on anything in the world, like broadly speak, to have a bigger impact on any area that you care about is by having access to resources, which generally means capital, which means making money. So, like, if you want your business to fucking plant a tree for every T shirt that someone buys, 100 million people buy T shirts, you're planting more trees. Yeah, but also on like a personal level, if you build a lot of personal wealth, then you can have more impact than someone that doesn't have a large amount of personal wealth on shit you care about, if you allocate correctly. So, yeah, my view is that it's actually, it's a good thing to get rich. I've always thought that. And strangely, I think people that often actually come from money but then don't have to build anything. Like hate on rich people and shit. Hate on people building something. Because for some odd reason, like, wealth is now considered a bad thing when actually like someone like Elon Musk, easy example, obviously, like I think the richest man in the world or whatever now, technically, he's had a way fucking bigger, way more positive impact on the earth than probably anyone right now, certainly in the past decade. If you look at the amount, like the net amount of people, employees, like people that drive Teslas, whatever. So, yeah, anyway, that's just a side point. Yeah, it's not a bad thing to get rich. I think it shouldn't be the only priority, but it's definitely a realistic element in life and it's a good thing.

Cool. Last question. It's kind of like, well, so three favorite brands right now that you don't know. Yeah, three favorite Brands even support.

I'm gonna say, like, obvious ones, but like, shit I actually use.

Yeah, it's easy to sell your competitors like that. You get into my three favorite brands.

I mean, Apple's got to be in there because I think everyone fucking says that. But, like, I use their all the time. I think they've managed to stay cool even though they're mad, mad scale. Whereas. Don't talk. But I think brands like gymshark have become, like, a bit cringe now. Now they've got a bit bigger, whereas Apple are obviously a hundred times bigger than that. Maybe even a thousand times bigger. And I still think they're cool.

I think, though, with gymshark as an.

Example, it came up in conversation last week, so I just thought I'd drop it in.

Yeah, I'm not even gonna go off a tangent. We're just fucking.

Apple's one of them. Fuck. I'm not actually. I don't actually follow that many brands. You know, I think two. I think two J's is cool in terms of jewelry. I mean, I can't say Fred's brand because you just said it can't be, my friend. But I looked at them in the jewelry space. They kind of cropped out of nowhere, and I thought their content was really sick. So that's another one.

What's that? There's a website that does top 10 landing pages.

I think Pangea is cool as well.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're good.

I've actually never bought that shit again. I just looked at them. It's like they're a pretty new brand. They're, like, cool, but also have, like, a moral purpose, which is, like, reducing waste and shit. So I think those three good examples.

I think as an extension to that question, because I know you have mood boards and Pinterest and you have Spotify playlists and shit. Like, you do have these things that kind of build your.

I get massive inspiration from bands and music, massively. Like, the whole aesthetic thing.

You have a space, good Spotify playlist, don't you?

Yeah.

So it's like. That's what I mean. Like, the amount where. Where's the inspo for those?

The three bands that have, like, aesthetically and musically are like, artists. And I'm very eclectic, by the way. I listen to loads of shit, but definitely the 1975. I've always been obsessed with their aesthetic. I'd love to do a fucking collaboration. Secondly, a band called the Midnight, which do, like, fucking. I think it's only one guy, actually. They do all the synthwave shit. And then what other band probably did.

You get that from? Midnight City. Did you say that from them?

No, I didn't, actually. Someone else asked me that. I might have done. I don't know. I've always liked the word midnight. And then Laney is another band which had, like. They did, like, the breakup song that I was obsessed with for a while and shit. But, yeah, I've always just been to that, like, aesthetic, like pop rock, synth and Pinterest.

All your mood boards and shit. Is that similar vibe, like, just 80s? Yeah.

I mean, it's not even necessarily 80s. It's like. Yeah, I guess I've always had a genuine draw to, like, the pink, retro wave, synthwave, vaporwave vibe, like Ferrari, Tessa Ross's, like, Miami Vice, all that.

It's all kind of psychic. Like, the shit, it's quite psychedelic. Well, your mood boards.

Yeah.

Even before this brand, it's always been like that.

Yeah, I've always had a draw to that. Tried to do it, Midnight City, and it really made sense. Neon was obviously very neon and pink, but then the business got fucked and now it's like a renaissance with that whole aesthetic. And obviously, like, the shoot I did the other day was like, yeah, that you just. From my brain. And it's like an 80s movie and it's fucking beautiful, in my opinion. So.

Nice. Wrap it.

Yeah. I mean, there's probably loads of other questions, I reckon. Be quite good to do Q and A, like, maybe once a month or every two weeks or something, because it answers more specific shit rather than just getting guests on. And it's obviously easier to do Q and A to get guests on, like.

No, expect.

Yeah, exactly. But hope that was useful. It's like, nearly an hour and a half already. If you're watching the pod, subscribe, recommend it to a friend, all that good shit. And we'll probably do an episode with you at some point.

Yeah, Come out of the shadows at some point.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Cheers for watching. See you on the next one.