Launching Space Goods, Daily Routine, Mindset & Relationships - Q + A | Midnight Podcast Episode 36

Next question. Do you think entrepreneurship is something you are born with or develop as you grow?

I genuinely think it's 90% born with. And I'll tell you why. Because I have a twin brother and he is categorically not an entrepreneur. No matter if you put him in a room, give him 100 million quid, he would not build a business. Right, we're back with another Q and A episode, the second Q and A episode of the Midnight Pod, and probably the 32nd, 7th ish episode. I think this episode might be sponsored by potential sponsors that we've just signed up, which is good. We're taking the fucking pod more seriously, turning this thing into a business, monetizing everyone that's listening aggressively. And as usual, we're back with. Well, as before, we're back with Jack.

And Salvi version 2, doing the flat chores. Co host.

Yeah, the fucking Q and A. Co host. We'll probably do one of these, like, I don't know, once every month. And I thought it was relevant to do a second Q and A because I'm like, a month since launching Space Goods, there's a lot of people that follow this shit. Know some of those questions on there are about that and a bunch of other things. And yeah, Q&As are just easy album fillers because it's way easier to do ourselves than get another guest on. Because we've officially reached the point where. Well, we. I've officially reached the point where everyone I know has been rinsed and has been on the pod, so we need to start out reaching to people and shit. And it's becoming a bit more difficult and work. But, yeah, these Q&As are interesting.

Yeah, I reckon. I think last.

Probably ask you a few as well.

Yeah. Last time we longed out a few questions, so we'll try and do some quick fire ones and then go deeper into the more lengthy ones.

Yeah, and some we didn't answer from last time and then some are new ones.

Yeah, mix it, match.

Try and make sure we didn't. Don't do the same questions again.

Yeah, Yeah, I can't remember. All right, well, we'll kick off then with. This is an interesting one because we've talked about it a lot in terms of you launching Space Goods. I guess now everyone kind of wants to hear how it's going in the sense of what you're comfortable with, revenue wise, and how you're approaching it. And one of these questions is what your approach is to paid traffic and influencers and are you comfortable Losing money.

Yes. I think to touch on the first point, people saying how it's going, it genuinely has gone well, it's gone. Probably. Probably as I'd hoped. There was a good and organic response obviously, but like organic I just kind of didn't really count anyway because it's not sustainable or scalable. But then it turns a lot ad spending shit. Started aggressively testing, running on TikTok, Google and Facebook. So I just kept it pretty simple, working with a solid agency who I trust. And yeah, it started to scale up. We spending like a grand a debt. What was the question? We're spending like a grand a day on ads?

Well, yeah, I was just about, you.

Know, the main issue is stock. Like only launch with 3000 units which only 150 grand worth of revenue. So yeah, I'm intentionally holding back on spend right now. So like the numbers are looking good given it's brand new, it's one product and it's like a new market. So what.

So now the second thing was basically about how you're. It said are you comfortable losing money essentially with the starting phase and we have spoken about this, that you know, the momentum first kind of approach.

Yeah, I definitely am comfortable like, like three sets back, five sets forward sort of in a way because obviously I've already paid for the stock. So even if like my triple L numbers first little plug there. Even if my triple L dashboard is like a net profit loss on the day, you know, I'm not, I'm not like cash net loss because I've already bought stock and I've already bought 8,000 units. Got another 5k coming. So yeah, I suppose I'm happy to a level to be losing money. Like the CPA is looking good and obviously considering a lot of people are subscribing or will subscribe because it's a consumable product. So bear not in mind.

I think you're in a unique position where you've done this before multiple times. So it's very much a fail fast mentality because there's no point. Like when you first start out, obviously you want to kind of take it slow because you don't know what's gonna happen and whatever. But you'd rather have data quick so you know what's working, what's not and spend more, get momentum. And that's what I think like being comfortable losing money. That question comes into it because it's like you are for now.

Yeah. And also, yeah, it's a mix of experience knowing like what I'm doing in Terms of it's not like it's my first store and I have to make money on, on the first day because obviously I have money in the bank. I also have experience but I also have a road map to if I get to the point where, you know, it's technically losing money but we can prove that we can grow the out of it, then I'll probably just go and raise a load more money with investors, which is, which I already planted the seeds for. And that was always like in my head a potential roadmap if it starts. Well, if and when it starts scaling aggressively. But right now it's just putting the first card down the table. Right. The first three weeks at this point there's clearly a market for it. The reviews have been genuinely good. We sold like what, I don't know, a decent chunk, like a quarter of the soccer ad or more. I don't know what that is. And yeah, it's starting to ramp up. The numbers look decent and I'm confident I can scale the fuck out of it. But the next step is do a first three months because I think that's a solid period to have actual data from.

I think going on to the you saying raising money again in the future, which is like a key, key thing you want to kind of do moving forward. What are the metrics you're building now that investors are going to look at in the future and say yeah, this is right, so we're going to, you know, putting a fuck ton of cash to take it to the next level.

Yeah, like the main thing. And I was very intentional with why I did one product and why is it subscription products and why it's a early market. All these like tick the boxes in terms of like, you know, potentially raising millions off investors and taking it like fucking athletic green scale. Which has always been the plan. So yeah, the main thing is that LTB to Cat because like if I can prove that hypothetically my CPA is 30 quid at, you know, we spent a million quid, we've got whatever that is, 33000 customers at 30 quid. But it's not profitable technically because they're all paying for one month of 40 quid. But actually if we know that people would are likely to stay for three months, then we can spend more on ads up front then to plug that cash gap you'd go and raise a bunch of money and that would be the perfect scenario for an investor to say, I don't know, let's put 2 million quid into it and scale it to like 30 million run rate, hypothetically. Because if you can prove that the customers are there, you just need more cash in like the interim, three to six months before they become profitable and they're subscribing, then that's. It's like. It's like a SaaS company.

Yeah, basically. Well, we were talking, wasn't it like they have the. They're willing to spend like 800 pound on a customer because they know it's gonna. They're going to make the money back kind of thing. Well, that's quite a mad stat. Pretty high for SaaS companies.

Yeah. Obviously right now it's a bit early to say how long dons are going to stay. Like customers are going to stay. Because if a customer stays for a year, say average 40 quid, call it 400 quid a year, then you could spend 300 quid to acquire a customer. But obviously if they're only paying 40 quid in the first month, you'd have a big gap between those two things and that's where raising money would be very sensible and make sense. So, yeah, that's kind of the main thing, like the LTV to cac, really. LTV to cpa, whatever you want to call it.

All right, next question. So being in business with close mates slash brother, what's your take on it?

Well, I've never really. I've always been like a solo founder, but I did, I did have a business with Ollie from Saw with us and it didn't go very well because, I mean, it was complicated because we're at different stages in life and shit and he was a good mate, which I don't think helped. I think it can definitely work. I think it comes down to just being self aware. You have the gym thing.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, for context, my, my previous venture before this, I had a gym account that I had. I co founded with one of my best mates. Grew it to like 125k on insta and then, yeah, I built. Built a new brand since then. But I think one of the key things I learned from that is it's very hard to. Well, we're at uni at the time. Nice. It's pretty hard to stay together all times that you need to be almost in the same room to like.

Yeah.

Get shit literally going quick. Yeah. And I mean besides that, just in general, I think you definitely need complementary skills. So like in a business, for example, one person charges the finance side, one. One person charges the creative side because they're Two completely different, but complementary skills because that's what's needed in the business kind of thing. Yeah.

I just never met anyone where I thought I needed them, to be honest. And.

Yeah. A jack of all trades kind of thing.

Yeah. And probably as well, like, maybe I'm just my character. I'd rather just be in charge of everything.

I'm kind of the same. It's like there's a stubbornness. Yeah.

Co founder, maybe when I'm older and it's like, I don't know.

I think that there's element. It's like perfectionism because you always think you can do it better. And it's like it's a blessing and a curse because obviously ultimately your vision is what pushes the business forward at the start. But that perfectionism aspect is. Yeah, it's a curse because you find it difficult to release control. And, you know, releasing control is freedom. That's what everyone wants.

So, yeah, I feel like now, to be fair, it's kind of the perfect scenario for me. Like, I'm still in charge, I'm still the founder, which is maybe an ego thing, but now I have other shareholders and wise people that have given me money and, you know, elements of their brain power to help me scale this thing. So for me, that's like the perfect balance between. They're obviously not co founders, but they also have a vested interest financially and emotionally in the business. I didn't have that before, but now, now I have that. Granted, it means I own not 100% the business, but still own the vast majority. And I'm still the only one making the decisions at this point.

Yeah. Do you want to talk about smaller slice of bigger pie that. That approach to what you're doing now? Because it's a very. It's very different to what you've done previously. I think it's interesting because, Yeah, I.

Mean, basically, and again, it just comes. Comes from experience and meeting people that have, like, actually made like, massive money and like, few of which have been on the pod and they did not own 100% of their business and, you know, one of them owned not even 50% of the business. And yeah, like, I would rather, you know, hypothetically, in five years have even like 30% of a billion or even 300 million or even 100 million than 100% of what I nearly had two years ago of like, I don't know, five, 10 million or nothing. Worst case when it goes wrong because then you haven't got the right backing and people helping you make decisions and Shit. So I think that's just a bit of like a maturity thing, like realizing I don't need to have 100% of something. Because if you just look at all the best, all the biggest examples of like successful startups, broadly speaking, but then specifically like ecom brands, probably very rarely does the founder own 100. I'm like, why do I need to earn 100? As long as like I'd like to be like recognized as the founder and the guy that made the thing. And you can still be that even if you end up earning 10%.

Yeah. But I reckon like when it went again, when it's like eight figure level, it then becomes a game of people. Like what people are going to drive the business forward and what flaws in the business, what flaws do you have in the business that you can fill with someone else who's an expert in that field and you're not kind of thing.

Yeah, exactly. I think everyone, I think it's hard to have that mindset when you're like 18 or even 20 or whatever. But I think when you've done it, done some shit for a while and works out what you're good at and not good at, then yeah, you just recognize that you probably have a much better chance of being successful and being very successful at a large scale by having a slice of a bigger thing rather than all of a smaller thing.

Yeah. I do think this bit of a tangent. I was thinking at the start you do kind of need to be good, good, not great at everything to get started. There's a big difference between good and great. But you know, when you're first starting out, no budget and there's a lot of questions about how much budget do you need. Realistically you're not going to have thousands to put in. Maybe you do, but like most people don't. If you're interested in getting in the space and yeah, you know, there's so many components then you need to have a good kind of creative eye for what converts on paid channels. You know, does the website look aesthetic? Is that going to convert like finances? Are you look tracking everything on a granular level because so many fees and shit you just don't account for. There's so much. And yeah, at the start it's good, it's good because you're a one man band but you learn the trades of everything that make a business work. And then as you grow and you get more money and you start to have more cash to put into other things, that's when you can offset it to people who are better than you in those fields.

Yeah. I honestly reckon any don that's been in the trenches for like two or three years minimum is like way more equipped for the world broadly of just business than probably anyone that's gone to uni and got business degree.

Yeah.

Or even like potentially even a fucking mba. Depends what scale you've got to.

Yeah.

You just see so much and have to get equipped in so many areas. Like even just basic shit that's really boring. Even men don't realize how many skills are actually required just to even be relatively competent at building something online.

Yeah. There's a mental toughness to it as well, because it's like a game of who gives up last. Realistically, it's like it, you know, it takes a lot of willpower to stay. Stay doing one thing for a year plus, like let alone three years, let alone people like Jimmy who did his. Had his brand for nine, 10 years.

Or whatever it was. And then it compounds though, because obviously confidence comes from. What's the term? Confidence comes from experience. Yeah.

It's fact.

If you, if you see that it can work to a level.

Yeah.

And then another level and then people around you do it to another level, then it's like, well, obviously it's going to work. Just a matter of time.

Agree with that. I always had the analogy when I was kind of at the start. It's like once you see the light at the end of the tunnel, that's what gives you the kind of it. It basically just shows you that it's possible and you can sometimes take other people's light at the end of the tunnel. So like if you see your best mate do well, or people in a close circle, like someone does well, they act as some level of inspiration that it is possible, whatever. And you can take that and then. Yeah, but there's definitely levels to that shit. Like now that we've grown our businesses, like we see people who are on.

An even bigger sales access to the next level.

Yeah, yeah. And that never stops as well. Like I realized that and you listen to these billionaire podcasts or whatever and it never changes. So like, I recognize that now and I, you know, I accept that. But yeah, it's just a constant game.

Yeah. It's like certain guests we've had on telling us about the hanging out in Dubai with billionaires, who to them are the equivalent of them to us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then there's probably some fucking. That billionaire is probably hanging around with Jeff Bezos, who's The multi billionaire.

Yeah, legit.

Not that it's all about money, but.

The levels to the game, the video is like that. The guy in the car looks up at the helicopter or some shit.

Yeah, there's always the next thing.

Yeah.

Yo fellas, quick one. First bit of promo for the pod. You may or may not have heard I released it for ecom course a few months ago. Basically spent like six months making it because I was in between businesses as you probably know. If you follow my shit, I must say, 12 hours long. It's fucking quality content. I was gonna drop it at like 1500 quid with some bullshit guru y webinar and all that rubbish but as you know it's not my main thing. I'm working on a new brand right now, very very fucking much in the trenches which is why I think it's actually a better course than everything else out there. It's built on real experience of my brands in the past and my current one. I think it's super, super valuable. If you're interested in ecom, you're already an E comm and you want it to get get into e comm 0 to 1 starting a brand from scratch then definitely worth investing in. Link is in the bio of this video or podcast, Spotify, Apple Music, wherever the you're listening or watching and enjoy.

The rest of the pod. What's your must haves in the product when you're looking to build a solid brand around it, repeat purchase potential, how much competition is too much differentiation potential, etc.

I mean I literally never even thought about any of this until I I started working on the most recent brand which is Space Goods and that's after like six years of doing so like previously and I've said this before, another podcast when I started Midnight and previous, I just don't even know. There wasn't much logic to it. It was just like maybe it was instinctual and I didn't think there was logic but actually it was like initiative or whatever but I didn't really think about it. But yeah, I guess for Space goods, yeah, I mean I literally sat down six months ago, whatever it was, with a completely blank slate and said what boxes do I want to tick knowing what I know now? One of them was massive gross margin, so like 80% plus. One of them was subscription potential, so ie consumable. The other one was I want it to be fucking small and light so it can ship easily and not give me the headache like neon signs did. The other one was I want it to Be a market where it actually feels early and it's not massively saturated yet, even though I don't think saturation is really a problem. But something about mushrooms. I looked around. There's literally no brands in the UK doing, doing it, at least not the way I want to do it. So some in America. So it ticked all those boxes and then like the psychedelic element was like controversial and part of the strategic narrative, I guess. Like, you know, this could be this if this happens. So therefore the business could, like, even if it becomes massive as a supplement brand, which it will, then there's. We're not even tapped into the next level of what it could be. So, like, yeah, probably even more now since I've launched it, I think, fuck, I guess for me at least it's definitely like the perfect product and market.

What do you reckon are the most challenging aspects of. Because you've obviously reverse engineered everything. I think you're in a good spot because you have the hindsight of knowing how your other brands operated and what the metrics were margin wise and what the. You know, the fact that Neon was shit to ship because it was so heavy. Like, you've got on paper the perfect brand. But, like, what would you say the challenges are, if there are any. Like, they might not be.

Well, the first challenge was, fuck, I've spent six months working on one product. If this product doesn't have appeal.

Mmm.

It's not like you can fucking release another color tomorrow. I mean, I mean, yeah, it's not like we've got 200 SKUs and one of them's a flop. It's one skew. So either works or it doesn't. So that's the first thing. But that was calculated anyway.

That was more like calculated risk, I'd say. But yeah, it was your intuition's way better now, just because you know the market.

Yeah, I suppose the other risks are maybe it's easier to. For a competitor to copy it, but then at the same time, I think it's actually way harder in many ways because it takes months to develop a product like that. Whereas a neon sign brand can rip off a website overnight, which happened many times. Same with like jewelry, to be honest. Like, so fucking competitive, so replicable. Every product looks almost the same with every brand, regardless of what any of them say, I think.

So high barriers to entry becomes a big perk when you've been running something for a while, let's say, or you have access to capital to invest in a product that's not already made already Made because then you're taking yourself off the whole Alibaba, AliExpress in and it's not something that someone can just drop ship. It's something that's been made. Takes eight plus weeks to build. And there's a high moq that most newbies can't afford to.

All these like TikTok and Twitter fucking.

See the same shit.

Dropshippers do not have the patience to develop a product for 6 months, seem like not make money on it.

5 ads today of some shark slippers or some shit. There's a winning product for you.

There's all these. Yeah, all these fucking shiny object syndrome.

Yeah.

Dons from like so many of them. Yeah, I think they all think they're ballers but the second their product dies that not everyone. But yeah, I'm just throwing shade on certain people in my brain right now.

I think in my, in my experience from, from my brand which I won't reveal today.

But.

Yeah. Well, I think you get at the start you kind of, you're just grateful for what you have. Something's working. It might not necessarily have all the metrics that make the perfect business on paper, but you just make it work like you know. Yeah, you do everything in your power to keep the momentum going. And then I think the next stage is getting a better product that has close affinity with better metrics. So you kind of use that starting product as a proof of concept in a niche and then once you've built that up, you built up a customer base, you get this compound, this compound effect of you know, having a customer base you can sell to again with this new product that you make in the future which has the, basically everything that you said with the higher barriers to entry, you have more capital to invest in a bespoke product. You know, like that's, that's, that's I think the most realistic route for a lot of people. But like now because you're in a spot where you've done a lot of shit, you have capital, you can make the perfect business from the get go because you had the capitals to it and the knowledge to make it happen.

Yeah, defo.

Let's look at some other questions then. Advice to a 17 year old starting ecom. Pretty broad one. I'll let you lead.

I feel like these questions are really fucking hard to answer because I'm not 17 in this current ecom climate. But I think the first thing, well, 17, you're probably in school. Just fucking start something. Even if it's. And it will be the Shittest website in the world. Start something and know that it'll be shit. That's honestly like the first thing. I think the second thing would be like just join as many like free online communities as you can. That's probably discord more than Facebook groups these days. Just like. Because that's what I did. I wasn't 17 but like 20. Whatever. Just start speaking to like minded people because one of the biggest challenges you'll have is no one around you probably gives a fuck about E commerce. Then you become. You might think that you're doing the wrong thing, whatever. But yeah, just join loads of free groups and I probably say watch YouTube for like three hours a day and then get on Twitter. It's actually reach it.

I thought, you know, like the whole thing of if you don't have mates who are in the E comm scene, like back in the day with you for example, you don't, you don't have a lot of people doing the same thing as you because it's quite unique down the business route. But the fact you're indulging in so much E com content they become your like your close five people who make you join me.

So it's like at the start, yeah, like online mates.

Yeah. You literally have to go all in on just understanding the game and you can get that through fucking pods like this. Like the fact you're 17 and asking questions because you're already in this sphere of E Com. Like you're in the right place. It's just a case of getting started.

Doing God's work on this. This fucking. Yeah, all for free as well. That's why we got sponsors. Someone's got to pay the bills. Yeah, that's definitely the advice. You can't give more specific on that because it's too broad. Yeah, yeah, but I think that's just solid. It sounds obvious but it actually is the case. And yeah, just another thing like ignore anyone that fucking says you can't do it. Which is like the other side of the rejoin all the positive shit but also block out all the bullshit which there'll be a lot of more around you physically. Like Don's laughing at you. Fucking school bullies that are yet to get a full time job at KFC after school, all that sort of stuff because that does happen in very blunt.

Terms is don't take advice from anyone who's not in a position that you want to be in. It's like financially.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Which is sometimes like, you know, when parents aren't as Supportive. Mine, Mine were like, I'm not hating on my parents, but, you know, say you can't do it and they're not in a position you want to be in. It's like, why would you listen?

Dog is a disgrace.

Okay, so podcast puppy. Yeah, what. What gives you the drive inspiration to do what you do? And where. Where do you create ideas? I think we touched on this, but we were.

That's kind of two questions. I don't know. I think the first thing, what gives you drive? I honestly think that's like you either have it or you don't. Like, to an extent, I suppose that initially, yeah, I just always knew I wanted to. When I was like 12 years old, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. Like maybe I didn't even know what entrepreneur meant by then, but I knew I wanted to do something. I always felt like the odd one out, which probably everyone does. That actually does cool shit in the end. To an extent then, yeah. I guess like drive recently is because I fucked up the last business and it really pissed me off and I felt like I had a lot to prove. But that's more circumstantial. But like the baseline is just knowing what I'm fucking knowing. I want to do something different, knowing that what I'm working on is what I'm good at. And. And then yeah, I guess ultimately wanted to build something massive and have a legacy because it's not just about fucking making money online. I think it probably starts with that. But yeah, I'm not that guy that wants to make a bit of money online and disappear to Bali because I know a lot of people are and they pretend they're not, but they truly are. So.

Yeah.

How about you?

I forgot the question.

What drives you? Well, that's the first part.

Well, we. In the. In the previous pod, I mean I've always been like a creative, I'd say like I used to make similar to you used to make home. Home movies. Be all into that. Mainly because my dad was so into films. We used to watch films together basically. Yeah, it's just like those little things that happen in your childhood that create this butterfly effect of me doing that made me want to make movies and as a result of that make better movies, do photography and anything related to creative shit really like in that field, learning Photoshop and Adobe Premiere literally when I was like 16, 17 and then taking that into the gym thing I did and editing is ultimately what got us to like an alright following. But yeah, I used to do like these Muscle, anatomy, things that were like kind of no one was doing at the time. That's what made us viral and basically just grow fucking 100k in like a year. But yeah, those, those, those traits compound. And then now it's like I'm. I'm directing a movie to the world and we've discussed this, we have the same thing. I literally feel like my brand is like my live movie that everyone's watching and it's fucking sick. I love it.

Yeah, it is. That's the cool thing about building a brand. Like I've watched back that 80s fucking film we did for space goes like 15 times.

Yeah.

Because I'm actually fucking amazed how sick it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What was the second part of the question?

Yeah, inspiration. Where do you create ideas?

I honestly always have a ridiculous amount of ideas and then I guess over time you get better at curating those ideas and choosing which ones to actually fucking work on. Because I was not the here's what I'm gonna do at 18 and work on it guy. And I know a few people that are. And I'm very jealous. Fucking. I've had like seven econ brands. Like, a few.

That's a lot.

Like one that did six figures, one that did seven figures, one that did eight figures and burned. And now, now the ones figures. But that's a lot different brands in different spaces. I just have a lot of ideas. But yeah, again, like, is that genetic? Is that. I think an element of it. An element of it is genetic and like baseline creativity. Because I've always just been a fucking weirdo. I have just a lot of ideas and shit. But then it's also the confidence to act on those ideas.

Yeah.

Because everyone's got ideas and they're actually very worthless.

Yeah. It's like, it's weird. It's like a case. It's this nature, nurture debate. It's like you must have consumed something different to other people to have better ideas than them. It's like, what is. Why, why aren't you.

Rainbow dust.

Yeah.

Product placement. I forgot to put it in.

Do it in a break. But yeah, I think it also depends. It depends on the brand you're running as well. Because like, if it's a. If consumable for. For mums, like, you're not going to do a rap video for content. Like you're going to curate it to be tailored for that demo. So, I mean, it's everyone's dream to create a cooler brand because then you're actually doing cool shit that you like but ultimately like, you know, if you have a brand that's not cool but it's making money, you're still going to make it work. But it's just that. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Me. Me personally, I get a lot of inspo. Just from I suppose music videos and shit. From an editing point of view there's a lot of. So that modern. Those modern edits like in all the rap videos and share like that following. Following the right people on. On Insta. I'm a bit weird. I follow like these Photoshop accounts because I'm always amazed like how much shit I don't know from these things that I used to do that took way longer than it should have. And it just give. Watching those guys do shit gives you ideas because it's like very. A lot of graphics and even with you and like the whole space aspect like you might follow it might be an account with space related animation to be fair. And yeah. I don't know.

It comes from a million different sources and it.

And I follow a lot of graphic graphics accounts.

Yeah. Because yeah, I mean you definitely. You probably get influenced by like shit you've seen the people you've met. You don't even realize it necessarily because like yeah, I've traveled a lot, met a lot of different people from different places seeing like different businesses and shit.

We're counting down the days till we see a gradient packaging, aren't we? For your. Someone ripping your space. Good shit.

Oh right. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking hell.

Yeah.

I don't know where the obsession with pink comes from, but I've just always been naturally drawn to that. That's maybe there's like some scientific reason. There's maybe some shit.

I saw Hong Kong like or Tokyo. Yeah.

But I was into it before. I mean maybe properly obsession started then maybe. Yeah. I don't know like when you just click with something like aesthetically.

Yeah.

And yeah, that's always been a concert like the whole pink nighttime vibes for me.

Yeah.

But it's definitely become more intense recently. Like I was in a shop today sawing out a certain pink dial watch might be on the next episode because no one's wearing a fucking pink dial.

Especially not one from MK Watch. Yeah. Next question. Who your. Okay, who are your mentors or people you follow? I think you go I've got a take on this. But yeah, you go.

Honestly, I would never say I've had a mentor but I definitely followed a lot of people. Like back in the day I literally used to follow like Ben And Lewis from gymshark back when like that was like super young. Just because I had an interest in and follow the other brand founders. Probably like just following brand fan people like Gary Vee Guzman, Christian Guzman. Yeah, Don's like that. Just like people doing cool online are probably followed.

Yeah, Guzman was an og.

Yeah. Matt Ogus.

Yeah, that's.

That's old school. Yeah, Used to follow those guys a lot, I guess. Mentors maybe in like recent months I've kind of got people in my life I would consider a mentor to an extent because they're like invested in the business and. But that's only now when I'm like 26. So I don't know, like, I guess other people, I guess even just mates and people I've met along the way have been like, you could say mentors in a way because you share ideas and shit, but never had like a formal one or anything. I don't really get where this like glamorous idea of a mentor comes from. It's very like Americanized.

It's the same. I feel like it's on the same level as entrepreneur. I hate saying entrepreneur because everyone says it. It's like everyone says, oh, I got.

Laughed at in Sarah House the other night, which is very mean. Finally got a fucking membership because I said to that girl, oh, you weren't there. It was with Tyler, she was some drunk girl. Said, and I knew before I answered. I literally said, you're gonna laugh at this because we're in Soho House where everyone that isn't an entrepreneur says they're an entrepreneur, but don't even get me started on that. And she said, what do you do? And I said, oh, I'm an entrepreneur, I build E commerce businesses. She was like, haha, of course you do. Like thinking I was lying, but whatever, I didn't really care. But yeah, it's just funny.

Yeah, yeah, I literally has. I think the reason I don't like the word mentor is because ultimately like you want to, you want to build relationships rather than like. Because the people that I consider mentors that all like that other people, other people would consider mentors based on the context of scheduling in an hour and just catching up on the business. Like they become mates though. You want to be mates, not fucking mentors.

Yeah.

So I mean like when one, you definitely earn your stripes when you have some history to what you do because then you become like a, a lot more interesting to other people and that's just something that you build over time. Like you can't Shortcut that like experience breeds connections really.

Yeah. Credibility.

Yeah. And yeah, I think paying, paying for mentors is like, it is definitely a good thing but you want to be really specific with what you want to know because it's like, I think I heard an example, it's like you're not going to go to the Tim Cook or something and just ask him something because he's, he's operating a trillion pound brand or Trinity brand, whatever. It's like he's way above what level we're at now. So you want to find someone who can answer the questions that you have and just be realistic with yourself about what you want to know and who's going to solve that. Yeah.

I think in summary the way to get mentors, if that's what we're calling it is just. Yeah. Build an element of credibility and just meet dons and have strategic sends with them. That's what I'm going to call it. And a strategic sense by the way.

Yeah.

It's a term I coined and put on Twitter the other day. I don't know what the exact definition was but it's the act of getting very drunk with people of high power influence or intelligence to strengthen relationships and break down socio economic work related barriers.

It's actually facts though.

I've just made that up on the spot.

Yeah, that's good.

That's what it is.

Someone's got Urban dictionary that and then.

Send it to you and basically. Yeah. Meeting cool people in like borderline work session scenarios and getting to know them because no one wants to fucking mentor you if you're a virgin and you can't speak because there's so many. Honestly there's, there's a few I'm thinking of. I won't name them that watch this podcast Message Me and they're just comes across so like forced and fake and yeah. Be yourself and fucking share your vision and ideally something you've actually done, that's probably the main thing.

Mm.

And then you attract people that. Because people that made money and like are older or whatever.

Yeah.

Usually like there's only so much pleasure they can like fulfillment they can get from fucking buying houses. They want to help the next generation of like legitimately high potential entrepreneurs and shit. And that's where they, they get a lot of fulfillment from that. So build. Yeah. Put yourself in those positions.

I think realistically if the founders or the positions that we're in we. You drop the corporate facade because you've got no one to please. So it's like if someone else, if someone's acting too professional to you, it becomes unauthentic because you know, that's not reality.

Yeah. I literally swear on every sing single call I ever have with like people I've never met.

It's like an icebreaker. It's like, look, chill.

Like I literally say like I don't give like somebody contacts. And some of them were like, oh yeah. Because like they're, I don't know, some sales exec for a 3 PL, for example.

Yeah.

So when you've never been in the corporate scenario, the corporate world, like, you just, you tend to be more who you are, I think.

Oh yeah.

Because you're not used to any politics or whatever or rules.

Yeah. Next question. It's from the same guy. Actually got quite a few entries from him. Top three important thoughts you took from all of your podcasts.

Important thoughts? Well, like, top three tips from the podcast. Yeah, I guess I'll try and freestyle that. What, from my guests, I assume.

Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Compound.

Yeah, well, I'm assuming that means like what I learned most from guests. I'll try and choose three.

Yeah, maybe like your top three favorites. I know one of them because we fucking talk about.

Yeah, like number one is probably building the strategic narrative of your business or brand. And again, I don't think that's applicable to like drop shipping. Well, it's not applicable to like early stage drop shippers or whatever. But like if you're trying to build a business to get like filthy rich from a big exit the strategic narrative and go watch Alex Packham's episode, I think episode 22 or 23 sold his business content cow speak about that a lot in that. And yeah, I think that's the first time I heard that concept and I've not shut up speaking or thinking about it since that's the first one. Number two is probably just massive success actually takes a lot of time. So even if you worked on something for like two years, which is ironically the longest I'd ever worked on one brand, like how the fuck are you expecting to get 100 million pound exit in two years? It doesn't basically doesn't happen like ever. I mean there's probably three cases. It does go watch the hair burst episode to reference that with Jimmy. I mean I'm just picking out probably like the highest tier episodes in my mind at least. And then third probably general theme that has maybe come from everyone I reckon is ultimately don't even start working on something unless you're genuinely passionate about it and would probably do it for free regardless of the financial outcome. I think that's the third thing because it would. If you don't actually care about it, you fucking will give up.

That's what comes down.

Reach your first hurdle. Basically.

That's what it always comes down to. That I said earlier. So it's a game of who gives up last. And if you, if you think about that, it's just true because if you give up at the start, you're never gonna get the end goal that you've been looking for. And then ultimately the longer you play the game, like the more you get out of it.

Yeah. The better you get.

Yeah, yeah.

I think probably those three. But go and watch the whole of every episode and you'll probably learn something. And you get my watch time and engagement up as well. So that'd be good.

Okay, next question. What are your thoughts on building a brand in a market you don't care about, don't align with, but has a lot of opportunity for a new player?

I personally couldn't do it and I said this a billion times, but I know people that have done it and it probably comes down to you. Like if you're not gonna get bored because you don't care about it, when shit gets hard, then fine. But I think statistically you probably are more likely to give up or not succeed if you don't care about yourself. Just can't see how that's not the case.

I think another thing that doesn't make it boring is if you're in love with the process rather than the actual kind of brand itself. I know people who are in niches that they don't necessarily like, but the process of making it the best brand possible with the resources they have and their creativeness to bring ideas to reality. It's the bringing ideas to reality that creates the most fulfillment.

Yeah.

And I get a lot of that as well. So it's like a mixture of cool brands fulfilling your creative needs.

Yeah, I think just fucking being self aware because it's different for everyone. But just don't lie to yourself. Like I could not run for example, a women's skincare brand even if you guarantee me that it was going to make me like a billionaire. I mean maybe I could.

But subtweet on that is actually referencing Ezra Firestone, which is perfect example. See as boom.

Yeah. Which is 14 year old women.

Yeah. Which is fucking smashed it to be fair. It's 100 mil plus. Right?

Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. So they're here. Me Obviously just likes the process more maybe. But yeah, I've always just built shit that was actually for me and I liked. But yeah, there's no right answer on that.

Yeah, definitely. I know when I first started out I wanted to hear kind of what the metrics were behind ad spend and shit. I think it is quite useful when you're first starting a brand. What is the ad spend on your. I suppose nowadays every structure is different but yeah, in general what's the spend first week? Let's say it may be different now we don't get into them.

Was he asking me?

Well, yeah, in general and I think, I think you're a good example because it's a modern day version of like what needs to be done on Facebook to get it to the next level kind of thing.

So, so what's the question?

So like the, your spend on Facebook, like how. What is the spend in your first seven days? We don't have to go past that but like for the first seven days.

Well, the first seven days I had an ad spend limit of 192 pound per day because it was a new account which is a realistic ball. So the ad spend was whatever, 192 pound a day for seven days which is like enough to get going but obviously not enough to like test and scale. And now that that ad spend limit is off. So it's a lot harder than that. But yeah, that's what it was.

Yeah, I think it's very, it's actually very. Well, I say it's very easy to scale different position. But it's like once you have the. It's proven creators first and then from there it's just pretty much CBOs and cost caps and. And that's just the easiest way.

Yeah, I don't even know what that means anymore. I'm not in the ad account luckily. But yeah, obviously I have enough understanding. Yeah, yeah, I'm not, I'm. I'm the conductor these days rather than the musician.

Yeah, but I'm a conductor that had.

A past life as a violinist, so I have context.

Yeah, I do think it's important because you're in a different stage where you obviously have the capital to offset your media buying to an agency. But like probably, I don't know, 80, 90% of people who are watching do all this shit themselves.

That's an interesting debate in itself though.

Because.

I still think even if you borderline can't afford it, you have a better chance of success giving it to an expert than trying to do it. Yourself, unless you literally know what you're.

Doing.

There'S a deal to be done with any agency or freelancer wherever. Just fucking pay him on performance and just. I don't know. Yeah, I mean you can't afford to pay them but you can't run the ads yourself and there's a win, win situation potentially.

That is interesting point. I always offset. I always outsourced Google from the get go. I think that's the easiest.

I never run Google.

It's always the easiest outsource because I think the actual cost is cheapest versus like Facebook and everything else or just Facebook which is obviously the main engine.

It's more reliable.

Typically. Yeah. But like I don't. I'd always get charged like at the very start it would be like a grand dollars and like that Facebook is normally like two or I don't know. So yeah, at the start I definitely say Google. It's just so subjective. Me personally, I outsourced Google from the start. Did Facebook, TikTok, Snapchat, two years maybe. Yeah. Two and a half years. And then like now I'm offsetting it and it's actually so blissful because. But it taught me a lot and it even, you know, I'm glad I was in the trenches in the, in the account because it just teaches you the process of marketing like ctrs and cost per click. All those, all those terms that very new starters won't know about.

Yeah.

It comes back to the jack of all trades. Things where you need like a bit of understanding on every component of a business that makes it shit work. Yeah. But then ideally you offset it to a media buyer and that's like the position you're in where you have the capital to do so. Yeah.

And also have the context. Having spent millions on ads, myself and multiple agencies. So like, yeah, I'm a weathered, weathered sailor in that respect.

Yeah.

So yeah, I know what I'm looking for and I understand what they're talking about. Even if I might not understand exactly how to execute it. And 2022.

Yeah.

If I was doing it myself, sure.

Hard things, finding a good agency.

Very hard. Click the link in my bio.

To.

A potentially good agency.

Yeah, all right, I'll try. I'll find the next question, I guess off the top of my head while I'm looking. Difference between brands and drop shipping.

I've definitely seen quite a few good ones in there.

But brand, branded a brand versus a drop shipping store. You're taking it like if someone's doing drop shipping now, how can how do you recommend they go to the next level and make it a brand?

Well, fundamentally, the difference in that conversation is, to clarify, in my mind at least, drop shipping is all about. And I spoke to Greta Van Real, right. And she's like, famous in this space, like four years ago.

Is that the one with the strategic send?

Oh, yeah, her and Nathan Chan from Fandom magazine. I distinctly remember this conversation. So I was dropshipping about then, and I asked her when I should move to branding, and she said, it's like four years ago. In Australia? No, Barcelona. And she said dropshipping is. Is stacking. Branding is compounding. I was like, all right, cool. Yeah, I get that. And basically what she's saying, yeah, like, drop shipping is all about how much money can I make now, you know, until it stops working or the product dies. Branding, I guess, is what I'm doing, you know, putting a shitload of money into something that's probably not gonna be profitable that soon. But you're building an actual unique proposition in a market and you're creating something from scratch, which is way harder to do but way more valuable to a potential buyer. And that's how you know you're not gonna sell a drop shipping store for 100 million quid. It is not going to happen. You're probably not gonna sell a drop shipping store for 100 grand either. Very, very rare. Even if you hear these stories, most of my bullshit. But yeah, everyone, everyone should get started with drop shipping. That is category. Unless you got loads of experience and.

Loads of money, it resets the clock.

But I think a good way to do it is start a store and then see how you can pivot that to a brand over time.

100%.

Which is what plenty of people we know have done.

Yeah. Including me. Like, yeah, literally. Yeah, I think that's.

I think that's the ultimate solution.

Yeah, it actually is.

In terms of roadmap from nothing to something.

Me personally, you learn the ropes from drop shipping. Spend however long doing that. For me, it was like a year. And then once you get a very good understanding on all the components that make it, like, make your store. If we're talking about stores work, then it's about what products can I add and make the brand more valuable and how do I make these customers loyal to the brand. And then you start looking at return customer rates and customer experience, because that influences return customer rate. And like, everything is about product quality, customer experience. Just having a operationally sound business that can grow and is attracted to investors, and then you Know, you might get investors to put money into the business, then all of a sudden you're running a fucking eight, nine figure brand. So, like, that's ultimately the sort of the journey for a lot of us boys in the space right now, I guess.

Okay, stop chewing this.

It's quite funny. It's just an easy one. Have you ever had an ego death? 5 grams of shrooms alone in a dark room will change your life for real.

No, I have. I've never had an ego death. And, yeah, I also.

Yeah, how.

Yeah, that's a crooked question, given it's a public podcast.

I mean, my. It's quite funny seeing. We're not funny, but it's just interesting seeing Mike Tyson's take on it all. I personally don't. I don't.

For context is something that's commonly referred to as. When you take a very large amount of psychedelic substance and he basically. Well, as he says, lose all sense of self and ego and you become almost like at one with nature. That's the general gist. I haven't gone that far, to be fair, myself. Yeah. So, yeah, no, not yet. I would definitely love to explore that level a bit more, maybe.

Yeah. Next question. Do you think entrepreneurship is something you were born with or develop as you grow?

I genuinely think it's 90% born with. And I'll tell you why. Because I have a twin brother and he is categorically not an entrepreneur. No matter if you put him in a room, gave him 100 million quid, he would not build a business.

How similar was your upbringing?

Exactly the same. Went to the same school board line, went to the same uni before I dropped out. Same city, different unis.

Do you have same friend group on that?

Yeah.

Oh, really? Fucking hell. Yeah.

So I genuinely believe it's largely, largely genetic. I just can't see how it's not because. Don't know. I've just seen so many examples that illustrate that. I. My brother is the most obvious one. But then, like, friends and I guess there's an element of maybe when you get a taste of something, working to get around the right people, then you can kind of train yourself to have that mindset and view things the way an entrepreneur would.

Did your brother row?

Yeah, but he wasn't as good as me. He did all the same shit. He copied me. I'm convinced it's largely genetic.

Yeah. I think at the same time it comes down to, like, fundamental traits, because going back to the not giving up, giving up thing, that's discipline and so like if you're, if you're not engaged in a sport or something at an early age and you get these discipline traits that you carry over into business, which is a big, a big part of business, to be honest. Like taking your, your previously. Okay, I've lost my train of thought. The shit you used to like, you know, at the gym, for example, like that was for me, that was my, that's where I got my discipline from. But for you it's for, it was rowing. It's different.

Yeah, but then I also know people that were elite level junior athletes, student athletes, current athletes do not have an entrepreneurial bone in their body because they're incredibly disciplined. But they just, they could not ultimately create something for themselves from scratch. They just, just couldn't. So that's where I think it's interesting. I mean, I think maybe the best entrepreneurs have both. They're like genetically an entrepreneur or have the traits that become an entrepreneur.

Yeah, I guess.

And have like the experience in life. I may be sport being brought up a certain way hang around the right people, eventually that makes them like ultimately the top level killers.

Yeah, it's nature. Nature, nurture. I think it's an unanswered debate. It's very subjective. Like in your case it's from your perspective, it's genetic because your brother's not the same as you.

It's a larger genetic. Yeah, that's definitely the starting point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it is an interesting one.

You don't like this one because you can talk about your fucking 5k PBS and shit. Current daily routine, including building the brand plus current running and training. Yeah, this guy has been fucking.

I've, I've got ridiculously shredded recently. I don't even know where it's come. It's happening like the past month, but he's seeing veins. Yeah. Looking back to like the Iman episode, for example, I was a fat fuck. Well actually wasn't a fat fuck, but like I was two stone heavier and relative to what I look like now, look.

Shit, what's that in kegs?

I was like 93 kilo then. No, sorry, more. No way. More like 99 kilo then. Now I'm at 87. So 12 kilo, that's like bang on two cent.

Yeah, I mean 12 craigs is quite a lot to be fair.

But yeah, I suppose my general routine hasn't really changed much. But I suppose my routine generally is like work from like 8am till 4pm Kind of like deep work, whatever you want to call it, like Lunch somewhere in there. Then I have my training period basically in the day which is between like four and six. And now that looks like I'll sprint 2km to the gym at like flat out pace which by the way is way harder than running at the same pace for longer on the way back because I'm not warmed up. Then I train for an hour generally. I've started, I do weights and I was doing a lot of like crossfitty style like circuits in the gym. I've sacked that off since I started doing running. So I basically do like push, pull, push board. I don't really do legs because my fucking chiropractor told me that my spine's fucked and I run a lot. So yeah, I'll do like push on a Monday but I've started whacking in calisthenics at the start of a session. So I'll do like pull ups and shit. That's only recently a standard like push weight session. Always push it really hard and then I'll run like 5k back from the gym with my gym kit on with my bag and shit. And that recently has just been like the ultimate fucking pair. I've like found the pair that works for me like weight training, like as heavy as I can, a bit of calisthenics and running like 7k a day.

Routine is so good.

It's just a routine.

Yeah.

And then at the weekend I mix it up a bit. Like today I went on the track and did a lot of shit. Normally I did like a 10k run and maybe gym as well or just a 10k run and I basically, I haven't, haven't had a day off recently in terms of like weekends. Yeah, it's a good routine but I mean I've definitely been drinking a fair amount like wine and shit which to be honest I think that's like a little vice of mine and I don't think there's massive. I think wine's all right. Like I'm neck in pints and shit.

Scared of balance. Really. Like I want to not drink.

Yes. I don't know, I feel like, yeah, it's like an optimum balance and everything really. Like, I mean probably the best shape of my life but aesthetically and cardio to an extent probably on par with what I was when I was like rowing.

Yeah.

Like I ran a 1735 K the other day with a bag on after the gym. That's actually filth. I was shocked how quick that was.

Reads David Goggins book.

Once I read David Goggins book. Honestly, that made a difference. And then I ran a 38, 40, 10K. But that was like a month ago.

Here's voice in your head.

And 37 something soon. And yeah, I've just. I'm trying to be aesthetic and functional and it definitely training like a savage. Like, I feel like you have to earn that every day. And when you do it, it always makes the day better. You look better, you feel better, you feel like a bad. And. And yeah, it affects every area of life. Like. Yeah, your confidence, your looking back. I'm actually ashamed. Like, the shape I got in last year, I wasn't in bat. I was still going to the gym, but I think it was. It was the lack of cardio, which I was. This had so much of when I was like a teenager.

This was a neon year though, right?

Yeah, I was just stressed and fat. I mean, I wasn't actually fat, though. Like, I still looked all right, but like, compared to where I am now. Yeah, I look like. Even my face, like, the face is the biggest difference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can't believe it. Like, how the Was I even getting girls?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, 12 kilograms is. That's a lot. That's a lot of weight.

So. Yeah, now it's like a maintenance thing. Diet's been on point, though.

Diet is 70%.

Like, we don't even have shit food in this house, so it's impossible to eat crap.

Which. Which is a life hack, by the way. Like, refrain from putting anything shit in your cupboard that you know you're gonna binge on. Yeah. Ultimately, if you have healthy cupboards, you're gonna eat healthily. It's like literally. It's so simple.

Literally all I eat now pretty much apart from like going out for food. And even then it's like steak or whatever.

Yeah.

Is what, like fuel? Fruit, frozen fruit, rice, chicken? Steak.

Yeah.

And then like yogurt, like natural yogurt. That's literally it. Like, but I enjoy it. It doesn't taste bad. Like.

Yeah.

When you get into a routine that's, like, enjoyable.

I also think it's healthy having some sort of vice that isn't too.

Wine is my thing.

It's not too detrimental, but it's like a. You feel like it's a treat and then that kind of levels you down from your very strict lifestyle from a health perspective. And then.

Yeah, I can track calories or portions or anything. I just eat what I want.

I am, to be fair at the moment.

I mean, for me, I can just Tell I want to train you like a mad. At least in my head.

Yeah.

And I eat what. What feels right.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. And then, yeah, I guess after the gym I generally work for like another three or four hours or whatever, go to the sauna and that's like a day.

Sauna's a life hack as well.

Sauna's huge.

Yeah. If you don't come out with at least one new idea, then you've done it wrong.

Yeah. It's actually so true.

All right, Advice for another advice question. I guess it just allows us to go down tangents, but advice for a 16 year old entrepreneur running a digital marketing agency.

Fuck it up for a start.

Yeah.

Who the fuck are your clients?

Yeah.

You're 16. No offense, but is that harsh? I mean, don't even have to advise on that. I mean, my advice would be why running an agency if you're 16? Because you don't know anything about running ads. I mean, well, maybe you do. I would find it hard to be credible at 16 if you're offering paid services to clients, if I'm being honest.

Yeah, I think.

But I just ruined that kid's dreams right now. So let's pull it back.

No, I think there's. It's very easy to see, like, it's hard to seem authentic when. Because I'm sure you got a sales pitch that you probably got from Imam or something. And like people can. Because at the end of the day you're talking to founders and like what we were saying earlier about the whole corporate facade thing, like, if you've got this whole professional sales pitch pitch on, there's me, I'd see straight through it. I literally like, tend to stop. Like it's not just not worth my time listening to some stuff.

He hasn't given any context on if it's going well or not, which is why it's hard to answer. But my gut instinct would be, how is anyone signing up as a client if you're 16?

Because respect is like major respect for getting involved.

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.

I reckon at that age, at 16, it's more a case of learning the ropes and like you're in a very sick position to do that because you're so young. Like, it's like, yeah, we always say if we were, if we were 16 or 17, knowing what we know now, then Jesus, like, where would we be five years on AKA where we are sitting here today?

Well, more than five years for me. Fucking ten years.

Yeah.

More than five years. Years.

Yeah. I can quit math Mate. All right, well off from that, I guess. What's next for space kids? I guess. Let's go back on.

Is there more good questions?

I know, not really, to be honest.

I swear there was something about girls in there. We've got to get some weird ones in.

Let me have a look, I swear. But answer that, then we'll go. I'll find some shit. So what's next in terms of how you're approaching the next of scale based on stock being a problem.

Yeah.

Etc.

Now it's like the first cars down the table. There's clear demand for it. It clearly works. There's evident good performance on a lot of ad creatives. So the first step was building out like, like creative systems. Because when you've got one product, the only variable really is the ads and creative. So I've kind of nailed that to an extent. So now it's just doing that and giving it time. Stock is another massive one. So I'm figuring out how much stock I can get. So we can scale potentially to like 3, 3 to 500 grand a month in like the next few months, which I think we can do. So yeah, ultimately it's pretty fucking simple. It's just a case of putting the shit in place that allows me to then put the foot to the floor on like ad spend and scale. So again I've done it before and it's just a case of executing it and ticking off any teething issues which there have been like a few like issues with like the three pounds, you know, noting down any early customer complaints or like consistent themes that need to be fixed and shit. But it's intentionally a very simple brand. There's one skew right now and there we will be for at least like the next six months. Even though I have other shit I could launch, I've decided to just focus on the one product. Scale it and like hypothetically, why couldn't I scale to 100 million revenue one product in my mind that that's possible.

Yeah. The actual, the only lever right now that's preventing larger scale is stock. And when you're a stock based business it actually is very hard.

Yeah, it's frustrating.

Yeah. Because like you feel like there's so much in the tank to scale but ultimately you've gotta have. You have to strategically spend. So.

Yeah, exactly. Run out quicker than just.

Yeah.

Think about the front end of the business. Like spend more, spend more, spend more and more room.

Yeah. Which is so easy to do. Yeah. You chase the numbers and like you have in the past. I think you've learned from that. But like it's fucking. Yeah, it's tough.

Yeah. Don't scale just because you. Just because you can scale. When you scaled everything like the stock, the cash flow and when you know.

It won't affect the other areas of the business that are just as important, AKA customer experience. And I mean product quality is just a given, but yeah, customer experience ultimately, which if you're in the dropshipping scene is probably something you're not like too focused on right now.

Yeah.

But then, yeah, the switch, it's the difference. Having a job, you can earn some quick good cash from drop shipping, but then the long term cash which is ultimately made in the exit is only achievable from a brand.

Yeah.

All right, Crooked then.

Like three or four or five tops. More within like an hour. Within like an hour.

Yeah. All right, well, we'll go on to this one. What are the top three traits you look for in a partner?

I don't know why I wanted to answer this.

Yeah, I feel like you wanted this to come up. Future GF. Also, what's your take on dating apps? So 2 and 1.

It's quite an interesting question.

Yeah. Christ.

I mean, yeah, like, I think like with anything you build experience in relationships and with, with like dating and stuff, like you literally get better at it and understanding like what you're in it for, you know, what's normal, what's not, etc. Etc. And I learned a lot in my previous relationship and I learned what, what wasn't going to work for me long term. So the first bit, like for a girlfriend, I mean an obvious one which I didn't really realize in the past was like just for me, like even things like, you know, just having shared interests, like I couldn't be with someone that was not interested in their health or you know, eating clean or working out and I might, that might sound flipping, but like when I was with someone that wasn't that they reflected on me massively and I lost like that habit, which was such a good habit. Didn't lose it entirely, but now it's. I'm in a much better healthy place. It's like I want someone that's going to support that. So that's like the first thing.

Let me just add that like with. What would you say their role is in when you're building a brand and it's fucking like trenches spec, how do you feel like a girlfriend would impact that negatively?

That's a different question, I think.

Yeah. I'm just kind of adding to it because it's very relevant.

I think it can. I definitely think you can have a girlfriend to be an entrepreneur. I don't subscribe that, you know, you can't be in the trenches with a girlfriend because in many ways, you know, But I think they would have to understand what your priorities are.

Yeah. If that is a priority, normally understand.

I guess that's probably the second point actually for a girlfriend. They would have to respect and understand my ambitions and however that looks. That doesn't mean you fucking can't spend any time together. But, but for me maybe that means, I don't know, we only hang out on weekends. Like, you know that my priority during the week is trying to scale the fuck out of this thing. It's what makes me happy, blah, blah, blah. And it's also going to potentially give us, if we're in a relationship, a better future life, whatever that is. So that's for the second thing, like just understanding. You just spilled wine on me. Just understanding what your ambitions are. And the same way I would expect them to understand I don't know what they want to do. And so that's probably the second thing. I don't know. I think the third thing is just being attracted to them like actually like on a deep like spiritual level because. Which, like, I don't know, I think there's a big difference between just like thinking someone's fit and like fully fancying them. Like on like a personality level, physical level, not just that mental level. So. And being like being like in emotion, not emotionally, like mentally stimulated by them.

Like shared emotionally. Shared emotionally. Yeah.

Being on the same page and like getting each other like fancy in each other because yeah, that is massively important.

I think trying to get across the priorities thing is probably the hardest bit because it's like we're so wired towards the business orientated goal that it's quite, it's quite hard to.

I mean I would, I would like to have. I wouldn't mind. I think it's a lot of pros having a really nice girlfriend that fucking. That it almost feels like it's not possible because so rare. Fucking really fit girl that gets the vision. It's really good for me in terms of like healthy and shit. I'm on the same page. That'd be really nice. I'm not opposed to that at all. But I think it's hard to find because it just is.

Which leads on to the dating app question. Start. Yeah, well, I don't even know what the thing was, what's your thought?

Dating apps, what's your take?

Yeah.

I'll keep it pretty brief but like, yeah, I've used dating apps loads over the years. Like fucking everyone has.

What's your favorite? Pom?

No, I probably used to use Tendy when I was in uni, then I use Henge a bit. I genuinely don't use as much as I used to because I'm just, I don't know, like, I don't know, like growing up. More quality over quantity in my mind and that maybe I've just grown out of it and not grown out of it but like, like it's less exciting to go on a date with a.

Girl now you want an organic coffee shop meat?

Yeah, I would love that. I would love an organic. Yeah, like I don't know. I've dated plenty of girls over the years. Some of them have been good, some of them haven't been good. Some of them being. Well, one of them was a long term thing, most of them weren't. Some of them went on a date, never fucking spoke to them again.

It is difficult though, because we've spoken about this before. It's like, although the ideal organic meat would be the best scenario. We're in a modern age where everyone is on.

I think it's past the point of dating apps being cringe and weird. Like it's not especially post Covid. We're not push that progression on. Yeah, Instagram's a dating app as well, to be honest. Yeah, I think that's probably a bigger dating app than Hinge or Tinder. Like it might start on Hinge or Tinder but like anything that comes from those usually, you know, develops on my Instagram and shit.

And Tinder's a uni app, to be honest. Yeah, like it's definitely for the nice. It's very uni oriented crowd.

But yeah, I mean in summary, I think dating apps are fine. I don't see why there's any difference ultimately. Meeting a girl on date on a dating app, supposed to meet in a coffee shop because at the end of the day if you meet them on a dating app, you're still going to meet them in person at some point.

Yeah.

And that's when like, you know, you either get along, you like each other or you don't like the dating apps. Just the initial contact point which in many ways you could argue is better than like a nightclub or a bar because you're probably sober and you, you know, there's expressed mutual interest. So I Don't see the problem with it. Although at the same time, I would 100% much rather meet, you know, my future wife in a library or a coffee shop. Well, I can. A more. A slightly more organic setup. Yeah, I was gonna say something else I'm not gonna say on camera. He knows what I'm gonna say.

Yeah. Fucking hell. Nearly a bottle deep as well. All right, so have you thought about entering retail stores? I know, I know you touched on it.

Can we get more philosophical questions or what? We've just been speaking about girls, but.

You want to talk about girls.

No, we want to talk. Is there no more like philosophical ones that aren't business?

Why don't you look. Have a little look? Because. And just.

Well, I mean, retail stores. I mean, quick answer. Yeah, I would definitely like to do retail stores as space goods, but probably shit like Selfridges or Whole Foods or whatever.

Yeah.

More than like fucking Tesco, Waitrose or anything like that.

The payment terms on retail shit is.

So 90 days or whatever.

Like 180 days.

Yeah. And then you're literally fucked. Unless you have investors, you're probably quite fucked.

Yeah. And I heard they like squeeze down your margins because they say like, we can take you off the shelves anytime. So like, yeah, yeah, we need it cheaper or you're off kind of thing. They have a lot of leverage over you.

Well, I've got a question. Not a question, but we need a full body about Consalvo story. So are you going to share your story and current brand at some point? And if not, why?

Interesting short answer. Yeah, eventually. A bit on why I haven't already is a good question. I've never been, never been public about anything. Like my Insta is just my life as it's been because I went to uni, built the brand like in final year uni. So it was a kind of behind the scenes thing, but just obviously documented as if like as most people do on Instagram, just normal shit. Trying to implement more Ecom related stuff. Now I think, like, I've got to the point where E Comm is such a big part of my life, it's like, why would I not document it? Because that's ultimately who I am and like, is where I'm destined to be. Because going back to that film thing, I've always been interested in making shit. Like I'm at a point where I'm literally making like what I've always kind of wanted to make, I suppose in terms of being. Being in a position where I can like commit to A process that I love anyway. Not getting too cringe on that. But yeah, I'll do it eventually. I think I've. I suppose a little, little teaser. Always been in the growth hacking scene. The gym account definitely did a lot for me and that it wasn't like a meme page gym account by the way. It's like a personal brand more type thing with my best mate. Learn a lot from that. You realize that there's an underworld to absolutely fucking everything. And there was these like telegram groups and shit I got exposed to when I was 16, 17 and just seeing that at such a young age and realizing that there's this underworld to social media. I guess from a growth hacking perspective, I never looked at the world the same. Like it's pretty deep. But I literally, I knew going on to LinkedIn I'd had like a LinkedIn bot that would. When it. When it wasn't a thing because it's now it's everywhere. But I literally, when it first started, I was already on that made a LinkedIn bot agency was the only some peer uni from that. Like I've just always been growth hacking. I was just like, I've kind of growth hacker. Like. Yeah, I kind of put that. I took that title recently because I was looking back at the shit I was down. It's like, fucking hell. Yeah. I have always been in the social scene just trying to grow shit. Like maybe not completely authentically. That's the one up. And by authentically I mean like my bots and shit to send messages and just all that crooked shit that 99% of people don't know about, which I personally find very interesting. Yeah, I mean that's, that's enough for now anyway. We'll get into it in another, another pod. I'm sure at some point.

Right. There's one question I noticed here when we invite Andrew Tate on the podcast. His success in every possible area. Well, Andrew Tate did reply to my tweet when he was in London. He just left on his private jet apparently. So I'm sure he'll come on at some point. It would break the Internet. So if he's watching this, if anyone's watching this, just like tweet him, like remind him because I'm sure he's in London probably quite a lot. So that's one, one question actually maybe quite interesting. I'll ask you. How do you find London to live inspiring or hard to focus?

Oh, mate.

Which I think I find it hard to even see how they see the.

Other side of that it depends where you start, because I grew up, like, near Watford, so, like, kind of in a countryish area. And going to London was just a completely different environment. And obviously you and Fred were here. Like, I know Fred from school. But, yeah, I knew, like, the next step was to be in my own spot with my mate Connor, who was also Nikom. And, yeah, we had a place together. It was like. It was a big kind of risk, I guess at the time it's like paying London prices for a new pad. Like, at the time, it's just. It's a big decision to make, but also the best decision I ever made in my life. Like, now being in the position. And when we hear a lot of people say, oh, your network's incredible, it's because you put yourself in a position where, like, you have access to a network. Like, if you're still living at your mum's place, in my opinion, it's very hard to get the same level of exposure to these cool dons who've done shit because they're not in their mum's place.

Like, I think if. I honestly think. If you even think that moving to a big city is a net negative, then you're like, big NGMI energy. I just. I don't. I don't see how that could be a negative.

Yeah, Lonza's lit, right?

I mean, I guess, yeah, some people prefer to be in a village and, like, by themselves and shit, but it's just not for me.

Solid.

Trying to see if there's any more.

One more question.

I did just notice scrolling along here, you took a picture of a Pure Gym, or whatever it is promo. They spelled your wrong piece of promotional marketing, which is just us. Ultimate irony in it. Sorry, it's the gym rather than Pure Gym. It says everything about that as a brand, doesn't it? Because you're amazing. They put Y O U r. You are. I've seen that before in a gym like that. They actually spell their own marketing shit wrong. Just fucking hilarious. Is there any solid ones? I mean, maybe not. Maybe you can pick one, but if not, we're like 1 hour 15 in anyway. Yeah, yeah, we can do another fucking one next time because some of these questions are pretty shit.

But, yeah, we're almost better off going down our own tangent of, like, everything. Maybe in another one, because we're towards the end now. But. But I guess, yeah, big things coming from space kids. It provides a much better platform to talk about shit because now you're actually doing a lot of the process which before was just a waiting game because you're waiting for stock to be ready, brand to be done, people to hire that would make shit work. Like now you're actually doing all that. It's scale time and it's very relatable to maybe people who are in a similar spot and want to take their brand to like X amount which you're heading towards. Whatever.

So yeah, and I'm just putting a lot of pressure on myself by speaking about it publicly which is yeah very intentional and I know I can execute again. I've done it before so. Yeah. And then the same with the pod. I've decided to take the pod more seriously because fuck like why am I doing it if we're not gonna at least try and make it? I wanted the biggest in this space. If not the biggest.

Yeah. And 100% I think it can be as well.

Pink lights, real talk, people like it. I now need to start. Yeah. Actually leave a comment if you have any guest suggestions. Cuz get all the fucking fellows listening to the pod. Helping to grow the pod. Yeah, because that is the hardest thing right now. I mean I need to hire someone to do it. But yeah, I've like rinsed my immediate network to an extent that there's a few more big episodes coming that people have probably been waiting for. But yeah, if you have a guest suggestion or whatever, just fucking leave a comment or DM me and we'll try and make it happen. If you've got any closing comments before we wrap up, we can do another Q and A next month, isn't it?

Yeah, I mean I quite enjoy these to be fair. I think the first one is like the idea of just speaking normally about shit was like I don't know on camera it's just a bit weird. But ultimately we're regurgitating our conversations we have on a day to day. I think actually living with this go going back to like your surrounding environment being being with someone who's in this. In the E comm space or. Or whatever you do and being able to bounce ideas off each other is actually so much more beneficial than you can imagine. Like we both. I think we both done a lot in this house since we've been here.

Triple S program.

Yeah. Triple S program. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Might start posting some more shit on the Insta. So plug shamelessly.

Yeah. All the boys building personal brands.

Yeah. At Consalvio.

Where the fuck's my blue ticket?

I will get.

I'm actually. I got scammed again the other day from some cunt trying to get me a username.

Not gonna comment further on scam twice.

Now, but yeah, I've been scanned twice waiting for that. Bloody brilliant. Send the check, anyone's got a blue tick plug, don't scam me. But yeah, as usual, I think we'll wrap it up there. Yeah, Decent Alepp, subscribe to the Pod, share with a friend, all that usual shit. We are growing, but I need. I need to slap this thing to like 10k subs plus asap. So we sat like 3 to 4k subs now for a while and it's pissing me off. But all good things take time as we know. It's like bamboo often a lot of growth under the service and then it'll explode. Yeah, drop a comment with some suggestions, what you think and cheers for watching. We'll see you on the next one. Peace.

Sam.