My Mentor & Investor Reveals How to Get Rich Building a Brand - Documenting the journey - Bonus Ep

Right, bonus episode for the pod. Document the journey. We'll do like 10, 15 minutes. James. Jimmy Hill, as he's famously known. So a few of you know I've been speaking about. Jimmy came on the pod back in February, sold his sick brand Hair Burst to JD Group back in September.

Was it September? Yeah, last year.

Passing this around. Yeah. So him and business partner Gwil. Henry. Gwil. Henry Gwilliam. Yeah.

Yeah, Gwil.

We've only got one mic. It's gonna sound weird, but. Yeah. So we've agreed a deal for Jimmy and Gwil to invest in my brand, Space Goods, which I've mentioned a few times, but I thought it'd be interesting for the documented purposes to basically chat about from your opinion, why. And I'm still gonna sound like I'm blowing, smoking my own brand's ass, which I am intentionally, a little bit. But why you think it ticks box boxes on paper as a good starting. As a good starting point as a brand. But then what I need to think about over the next sort of three to four years, call it three years to position it for an exit. Because I feel like everyone that watches the pod that's in Ecom, everyone talks about they want to build 100 million pound brand, all this sort of. You've actually built a massive business. I made a lot of money doing it. Most people haven't or they talk about things that they're going to do, but you've actually done it. So from your perspective, just want to talk about that, really get your. Your opinion.

Where do you want to start?

I guess, well, maybe from your perspective, why you think. And well, if you do think that Space Goods, you obviously do you chosen to invest in it. But I suppose actually, yeah, like first thing is it. Because obviously you've invested in other brands as well and you probably invest in other ones in the future. All DM him asking for that though, by the way. But like, is it the brand? Is it the. The business itself? Is it the founder, is it the market? Like, what would you look for? I guess in my case and other cases, in an investment opportunity.

I think with Space, is that close enough? Is that going to work? I think with Space Goods, first thing was without licking your ass, the founder. So I think you've kind of done it already. Didn't quite work out. So that's like a bit of a plus. You've got a massive chip on your shoulder. Yeah. So I think you're gonna. You'll grind through shit to get there. So I was like that's like a bit of a tick. I think spacecu is the type of product is. I think I could generally help because it's not. It's a consumer product. Right. So that's kind of what my experience is in. So I felt like that was quite good and I was always happy to help you anyway, so I thought I may as well get paid for it if I'm going to invest. Yeah. And yeah, I just think our skill sets are actually quite different so maybe that could actually work quite well. I think you're like quite creative and a bit loose and I think I'm probably a bit more operationally minded maybe. I don't know. So I just kind of felt like. I felt like I could help but I also think you're the right person to be the founder, like just pushing on with it and growing it. Does that make sense? Is that a fair summary? And then the product wise, I think we've talked about this a lot but I think in terms of things I look for, like I've been saying to you the last few weeks, like I'm really keen on pushing subscriptions through just purely from an LTV play, which I think is really important and we're probably going to be testing things out over the next few weeks about how that can come a big part of the brand.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. I feel like I probably look like I've teared this video up to just be fucking licking mine and the brand's ass. But yeah, I definitely think, yeah, I think like I said to the other night, I think my biggest attribute is probably just the chip of my shoulder and a decent amount of experience to be fair, which you don't really. I'm now mature enough and probably experienced enough to know how much I don't know, which is the ultimate irony. It's like that Dunning Kruger effect or something like that curve. Whereas before I was a bit arrogant, probably thought I could do it all myself. Didn't know where my blind spots were. Like things like the finance, now I've got like an FD in and all that shit which you're about to speak to after this. And yeah, obviously like I've just come to the view. I probably always thought I had to own the whole thing before but obviously money helps massively of course, getting capital in. But yeah, like fucking hell, it's like a win win for me, like getting investors in. And obviously you aren't the only investor but you'd be the biggest one and probably the most actively involved one. You and grill who's not here. Yeah, it's like fucking. In my view, it's like I'm getting money. The business is getting money, which helps the business. It makes me more accountable because I've got people fucking checking in. Particularly, like, more active investors. I imagine you will be. And ultimately you then have the business's best interest at heart because you're financially invested. Not that that's probably your primary goal, because. Yeah, I mean, you've probably made enough fucking money to not be too fussed about making another XYZ million from this. But maybe you are. But, I mean, I suppose that's another question from your perspective. What, like, where's. Where's the most benefit for you in investing in a brand? Because obviously you're pretty much retired. Like, you're only going to work on stuff you enjoy, I would imagine, to an extent. Like, is it. Do you care that much about getting a big return? Obviously, I imagine you do, but, like, what things you care about.

I've tried. I've been trying to figure this out over the last few years. I think my number one focus is, like, enjoying it. That's pretty much the goal, is enjoying it. And I think anything in life, like, whether it's sport or business or like golf or whatever, like, I think just like, winning is quite enjoyable and just seeing things progress. So I know I'll enjoy, like, being on the sidelines and like, having a chat with you about it. And as long as it's going well, I'll enjoy those chats. It's just nice to see things grow. And if I can invest in. And I'm like, part of that growth, then great. It just makes me feel good, I think. But I wouldn't. Yeah, I just probably that's the most important. Just enjoyment. Not too. I mean, getting a return on money is a bonus, but it's not. Yeah, it's not the primary goal, really. It kind of isn't. It isn't. I think it's. It's good to be financially invested and you sound like a. The end result is you get money, which is good, but really it's just about seeing something grow and. Yeah. Seeing people do well. Love seeing people do well. You know, it's like one of the best things, being around winners and stuff.

Yeah. Right. Gonna try and keep this fairly short, but I'll get onto more specific ecom stuff in a minute. But we've sort of spoke about this at dinner a few times out here and shit. And a lot of people I think, would probably imagine it. I mean, I've thought about it. Not that I'm fucking anywhere remotely close to your level of financial success at all, but I would like to be. Do you, do you ever worry that like, because you've like made it financially and obviously that's what like a lot of people that watch this podcast want to do. I certainly want to do, et cetera, have that like freedom to do basically, well, do what you want when you want. Like where do you get most fulfillment life now? I mean obviously you kind of just spoke about from an investment perspective, but also where do you see yourself investing your time over like the next few years? Just from like a lifestyle day to day perspective. Like do you have the desire to fucking get your hands really dirty in the trenches again or are you way past that? Is it other things like, like investing in brands? I don't know, have you got other fucking completely non business related interests you want to pursue that you maybe don't speak about in pods and that? I don't know.

I mean I'm still involved in Hair Burst still, so that's still a goal for me. I'm less involved in terms of like the day to day now than I was in the past, but I'm still heavily invested in that. In terms of enjoyment, I think like I'm literally just as it is like on this trip, on previous trips we've been on recently. I'm just trying to figure that question out. Not a simple answer. I think what I have realized is I think a goal is super important. So I kind of did the hair bursting for like 10 years. I spent my whole time was just focused on that one goal. And I think I didn't realize at the time, but having that goal was actually a big driver. I assumed that I was just doing it because I liked it. But then when it comes to a chapter ends and a new one starts, you reassess like what you're doing with your time and stuff. So I'm still trying to figure it out. I think I enjoy having conversations with interesting people. That's like number one. Yeah, a lot of people are interested in founders. That's like another plus. Yeah, I think it's post they're saying I'm fully not involved in Hair Burst in like I don't know, three years time or four years time, whatever. That's probably when I'll really answer that question. But I actually don't know. Don't know what I have realized. I do need a goal. Whether it's like a running Time or a golf score or a new business thing would have to have an end target. And then chasing that target, I think is where a lot of fulfillment comes from, not the actual achieving it. When it's done, it's done.

Does money make you happy? And I know we sort of spoke about this on the pod before and you mentioned that obviously like for you, you'd made a significant amount of money pre exit, which I don't know if that's common or not with founders, maybe in your case slightly more than usual. So it's not like it all came at once. But now at this level you probably have an even better perspective to answer that question. So what do you.

If you was to say like the quick answer probably be no, but I think it gives you the opportunity to be happier. Probably what I think the answer is. If you just cold question is, does want to make you happy? Then no, because one or two things in your life could not be quite right and you definitely do. What I mean I've had, I think I said in the pod last time, but I've probably had some of my lowest moments when I've had money before I had money, you know. So I think the short answer is probably no, but I think it does give you the opportunity to experience better things, get more pleasure I guess from things and have more fun. The opportunities to be happy and maybe bigger. I think a level of wealth is important, but it's not been a category that can make you happy.

No. Alright, cool. It's probably something shit I could dive into. If you had two mics it'd be easier coming on back to Ecom then for a second. So obviously stuff you've been speaking about with me and like a lot of other founders starting brands and that, I'm probably gonna fucking attract a billion competitors now speaking about this, so don't give away all the secrets but for me, say there's a three year timeline. I know we spoke about that and that's probably relatively quick, but calling it a three year timeline, like say there was a gun to my head and I've got a, you know, get 30 million pound exit in three years hypothetically, or you know, get to a level that's like fucking properly like set for life, like big deal, whatever, whether it's 30, 10, whatever, what should I focus on in terms of, and this is applicable to any founder, but I'm just using me as an example, what should I focus on business wise and terms of like growth, revenue, profits. Obviously there's a lot of Debate. You know, you read about companies raising a shitload of money, never been profitable, but still getting big exits. But the economy's changed a bit now, like. Yeah, I guess, broadly speaking, what should I focus on? It's probably a very long answer to get to a point where you've got a very acquirable business in like three years time.

Yeah, I think the first point is probably a lot of things are actually out of your control when it comes to exit. So like the macro environment now is, is changing with all the stuff that's going on with the economies and stuff. So like post Covid, like money has to go back into the system because so much has been printed, inflation's really high, like the need for consumer goods has probably gone down. So all these things are going to, for some business an opportunity and some businesses a bit of a something that can trip people up. But I think three years from now, I think if you're looking to exit now, which obviously you're not, I think it's more of a concern. I think three years from now, hopefully everything should be okay, but that's completely out of your control. I think people sometimes ignore that. What's going on in terms of what you should focus on? I think what I want to try and avoid is like growth for growth's sake, which I think a lot of brands do. So we spoke about, haven't we? But you could have. If you've got an lv, that's just simple numbers. If you've got an LTV of 100, but you're, you're paying 80 quid to get a customer and after cost of goods you're kind of at a net zero, even though the revenue might be going up. I see it all the time. Like there's a brand I saw probably four months ago doing tens of millions revenue, but all the money used to go into Facebook, basically. So you, basically you're acquiring customers but not at a profit. It's not a loss either kind of break even, but you're just kind of pumping it. For pumping it, you turn the ads off and the business disappears. So, so the conversations we've had have been around how do we diversify away from just purely ads, which we've spoke about quite a lot and just trying to increase the LTV as well and just trying to get to a point where we feel in control of the level of profitability that can be made. So whether that's through retail, other channels or whether it's through AOVs and LTVs going up as well, and just trying to methodically grow rather than just like throttling it, which maybe is what you did in the past, because bigger revenue and revenue growth is important and you want to see that growth, but it's really about what's actually going underneath to make it a sellable asset, I think what's quite important. Yeah.

Yeah. A long road ahead. Trying to think what else I want to ask you. I mean, that was kind of the main thing for this little segment. Do you think, looking back, and this may be last philosophical question. I know you mentioned you felt like you. Do you think you sacrificed a lot of elements of your twenties that you regret? Because maybe I know you said, like, you should have balled out more when you were making money when you were younger and stuff, basically. Is there anything you regret from your 20s because you were so focused on the business, or do you think. Do you think it's possible to have kind of a few questions, or do you think it's possible to enjoy life, travel, have good relationships with mates, girls, whatever it is, while also putting yourself in a position to get that, like life securing exit. Because I often battle with this and part of me thinks I shouldn't fucking speak to girls topical. I shouldn't fucking drink, I shouldn't go out, I shouldn't go anywhere, I should lock down for three years and just focus purely on getting that exit. Then a bit of me thinks, well, if I'm doing that, probably fucking unhappy then wouldn't do my best work anyway. So I guess that's a very broad question. But how have you found that balance? And on reflection, is there anything you would do differently or do you think it's different for every founder? Because that's a lot of questions in one.

But yeah, I think one thing that came to mind when you were saying that was something I've been thinking about quite a lot is something I've been thinking about quite a lot is the balance between time and age. So, like, this could be. Definitely be wrong, but I think I'm going to enjoy age 33 to 40 more than I'm going to enjoy 70 to 77, for example. So when asked with the question like, should you spend money on things and have a good time now, I don't think there's any better times than enjoying your money yesterday, because as you go, I might be wrong. Maybe, maybe age 70 to 77, probably still go on holidays, probably still having a great time, maybe fulfillment is actually loads higher because you probably more settled, you've got wife, kids, grandkids whatever. And that's probably a whole new experience. But if you can afford to do both, then why not? So, yeah, we had a discussion at me. I thought maybe when I was in my young 20s, maybe I should have just not just saved every penny and whatever, you know, But I had my own reason for that. Maybe because I was. Don't know, I wasn't used to having money, so I just saved it. That was kind of like my default thing. So I think that's a fine balance between time, age and money and how every day now is worth more than a day when you're older, potentially. That's kind of like the spectrum I think we're talking about. And I can look back and go, well, I spent age 22 to 27, I mean in Leeds, small office, office every day, did that way. But it doesn't necessarily mean that's the right way to do it. And I think going forward, I wouldn't. My next business, if I do decide to launch another business, I'd just be fully remote from the go. Whether you can. What I've noticed in my younger brother actually is the challenge then is are you. Does your personality suit that type of work that we've discussed about? Being just in this bit here, it's quite difficult to actually focus. So it's about position. If you do travel, positioning yourself in a way to work so I can look back and go, maybe I did have regrets, but maybe because I did that is why I manage to build it and exit. You never really know.

Yeah, yeah, Interesting. What we're talking about the other night. Time, like how time flies and shit. I feel like I'm getting old, but then you probably feel like you're. I'm young and it's all relative. And then the Next person that's 45 probably thinks you're fucking young. But yeah, all right, final question. And you asked me this the day. Where do you see yourself in 10 years then? Because, I mean, I can't fucking. I could sort of answer that. But maybe for you it's even more, even more open ended because I think I said I'd like to fucking, for me, probably have like a wife and kids and have a massive like private equity fund. Pool party. Pool party capital. And we've just got like a 20,000 square foot villa in Bali and being like a fucking loose cunt, but making billions with the boys or something. But that's probably a bit more of a pipe dream for me at this stage. But for you, you could do that tomorrow. So where do you see yourself?

10 years.

Yeah.

This is why it's quite good doing this because this is going to be on YouTube for like however long. So we can look back at this in 10 years. Honestly think right now I ain't got a clue, but it could be what I'm resisting is like throwing myself into a brand new thing, like deep. Because what my biggest worry is if I do that, I know, I know how quick 10 years went with growing hair bursts. So I'm very cautious about that. So I'm really taking my time with it. I think I really, since the age of whenever I read the four hour work week, like when I was probably 20, something like that, always prioritise travel. So I'm going to continue to do that. One thing I do think is like how long, how long does that remain super enjoyable and is there another way to do things? I don't know. Like a lot of people my age are kind of. I'm 33 now. A lot of people are settled kids. I'm sure that happen at some point, but I haven't really got a plan. I'm quite enjoying just. There is no early end to this. I'm just kind of like living my life day by day at the moment. So it's quite hard to answer. I'd like to think I probably continue to invest, work with interesting people, want to enjoy my work. My investments are ticking along so I should be like very secure for life. So still trying to figure it out, but it's. It's definitely not. I think a lot of people who exit go through the same thing. It's not, it's not easy to figure that next bit out because you have a big goal for so long and you hit it. Then what? I don't mean I'm nine months later. I'm still trying to figure it out, but hopefully still doing some business. I enjoy investing and enjoying life. Very vague.

And if I were you, I'd buy a pink Rolls Royce, Colin and Black Badge. But maybe you're less grotesque than me. Right, we'll wrap it up there as usual. I don't know what this is going to be. A podcast or if I can document the Journey episode. Maybe a bonus episode. Subscribe to the Pod Pool party Social Club coming soon in some way. And yeah, see you in the next episode. Cheers for watching PE.