Quitting Corporate Life to Build £££ Multi-Million SAAS - Jack Bayliss | Midnight Podcast Episode 30

Right, then back with episode I think 29 of the midnight Pod, we have Jack Bayliss. I guess I was put in touch with via Isabella, who were just speaking about. Context of that story will remain private. Who I met like four years ago via being in York. And then you went to York Uni.

Yes, I did.

And then you've got a pretty interesting story. We were just chatting for like 10 minutes prior. Got into like the corporate world, I guess, and then escaped it via. Similar to the guys from Crep Sheath, which you just told me. You know, it's a fucking small world. I feel like this whole entrepreneurial sphere is very small. And now you run a few different things. Yes, Aftermarket arbitrage and then NFT emporium.

And then I have shares in an Amazon based group as well.

Oh, sick.

Yeah, yeah.

So a lot of different things. I guess, as usual we'll just chant to a load of different shit, as we always do. First question is just like, basically, who are you? What do you do? Like, how did you get started? And I guess we'll go pretty chronological to be interested, to go back to like childhood and then when you got started.

Yeah. So I basically, it all started for me when I used to work in a gym and I had a ton of spare time when I was in the gym. Like I was supposed to be doing admin work. And then at the time, my girlfriend at the time, like said to me, there's these new Yeezys coming out and I knew nothing about him. And I ended up sitting on the queue whilst I was in work. I got throw. And then like, I managed to get them and like my head completely fell off when I realized I could make like 300 quid on them. And I was like, that's the easiest money I've ever made in my life. And it was sort of from then that I took like the interest in trainers and reselling. That's where it all started. So we were in like the guys who you had on, on the last pod. Yeah, we. When. When there's these cook groups where you get these communities of people who are all going after these trainers. Like we were in like pretty much the original one went back when Ollie started and so that's. That's where it all sort of began. And then we.

When was this? Sorry, just like seven years.

This was. Yeah, this was probably about six, seven years ago. Yeah. So it was in between college and university for me.

Right.

Yeah. Because I took. Took a gap year in between college and uni and worked full Time at a gym.

Yeah.

But the gym made me want to go back into education. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you plan on being a PT first then, or what?

I wanted to do nutrition.

Right.

Yeah. So. Because I used to compete in natural bodybuilding, so, like, that was my life. Yeah.

I used to want to be a natural bodybuilder. When I was like, 17, I went through a phase of just eating, like, cottage cheese.

So that was literally my life. Like I lived and breathed it, but, like now my focus shifted from a plastic trophy to wanting to make money. That's where that's sort of like what you. Because it's so demanding you. Like, I couldn't do both because it was literally. Yeah, that was my life. So, yeah, we, we sort of scaled up the shoe reselling on a personal level and then I went to uni and just carried on doing that throughout uni. So. Supported myself through uni. Didn't have to have a job.

Yeah.

Never really had any financial issues. I was paying my mates, like, almost everyone in my flat. I'd be like, get them to enter stuff for me. If they won, I'd be paying them all. Like, it was. Everyone was making money, everyone was happy. And then. Yeah, so like, I, I, My, like, time university, as I was saying to you earlier, like, I. So I did accounting and finance and I was always wanted to go into investment banking and then take a very structured route, end up on the buy side, do some, like, asset management and then end up at hedge fund. Like, I always had, like a very clear path.

Did you watch Wolf of Wall Street?

Yeah.

Like a lot of people. Yeah. And think that that world is as glamorous as it sounds. I went through a phase like that as well.

Yeah. I think, I think pretty much every young lad does on there. Like, it's, it's natural. Like, I was, yeah, I was so focused on it. And so, like I was saying to you earlier, when I did my internships at the hedge fund, the boss there said to me, like, get a first, make sure you get first. Like, I, I had no social life at uni in my final year. I went out once. Like, I was literally like grinding, like, committed to this, getting this first and Which I got. And then, like, I'm glad that I worked as hard as I did at the time, like, because it then led on to me, like, getting all my other opportunities and over internships. But looking back on it now, I do think I missed out a lot and, like, I was a bit tough on myself.

So did you decide you wanted to go into investment banking after having done the shoe reselling and just not saying.

Yeah, so it was. I was doing it.

Why didn't that ever take?

Like, because so, and this is the thing, everyone around me at the time when I was shoe reselling, they were saying to me, why aren't you starting like aftermarket, like, so they were saying, why haven't you like a company like aftermarket three years prior to me starting it? Because they were all like. Because I'd already told them about the group that I was in and they're like, why don't you do your own, like set up on your own and. But for me it was like, I don't think I had that confidence and that was something that I lacked and I just like sort of kept my head down and just badgered on my own. And then, but then I got to the point where I was like, I would. I like, I seen the success of the crep chief lads like, and I knew them like. And like, I was like, I can do this.

Like you from similar place.

We literally live down the road. Like we grew up together.

School friends.

Yeah.

Oh, right. Okay. I feel like it's always like this.

Yeah.

Like people that do end up doing my.

My little brother is best mates with Milo. They grew up. They grew up together. They've been like best friends since nursery.

Yeah.

My family's friends, like it's, it's. Yes, it is. So. So yeah. Whereabouts are we up to? I can't remember doing.

Pursuing uni.

Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah.

Both.

Yeah. So I never really seen like the long term in that. I never really thought I could do anything with it so. Because I'd always just done it on my own Y to sort of when. When them lads, the crep chief lads came together as a group, I was just still on my own doing it and that's sort of where like I didn't really think I could do anything with it, I think. And I was so like, I think I'd always been very focused on my education and taking that structure path like my family or like my uncle, he's Cambridge educated, extremely smart and like I think from a young age I've always been like. It's always been drilled into me like that I've really got to nail my education.

Yeah.

And yeah. So we. It was after, after I pretty much finished uni, started an internship, finished that internship, then had like a six week break before I started my full time job. And it was in that six week break that I started aftermarket so like when Was this?

Like two, three years ago?

No, like it literally 18 months ago. Oh yeah, yeah, it was like, it was like. Yeah, yeah, it would be 18 months ago now. So I literally like the day that I started my job was the, that the website went live. So like they collided and then yeah, like obviously lockdown hit. And for me that was like it benefited the businesses tremendously because everyone's at home, everyone wanted to make money, everyone had the furlough money coming in. Yeah, more time on the hands and then yeah, there was just so many more opportunities came up with obviously all the supply chain issues. So when we were able to leverage that and then, yeah, so it exploded and then it got to the point where I was like working long hours. My bosses at my corporate job were like, I was seeing the hours that they were putting in and I had a rough gauge on what they were earning for those hours. Like I would get Messages at like 3 in the morning and like I was just like, I know what, like I have an idea. Yeah, I have an idea of what you're being paid and you're having to work until three in the morning. Like it's like, it's just the system's like so messed up how the guys in my M and A after work and it was just like I don't want to sacrifice that. I'm going to see like when I kept putting my time into the businesses, seeing them grow. Like when I told my bosses about Aftermarket because I only told them like pretty much a month before I left, like their heads were like blown off and they were like, how have you been here so long? Like, and they like said to me like they were really supportive of it. So they said to me, you go like if the business fails, you've got a job there, just pick up the phone. Like so they've been really good about it. But yeah, it's, it took a while for me to get to that point to be confident enough.

So when did you quit your job?

October.

So just gone? Yeah, like so five months ago. Yeah.

So I like, I had to get like for me I, I needed like a lot of reassurance. I know not reassurance. I seek advice from a lot of people. So I, I'd go back to all my, where I interned at, I spoke to my managers there. They put me in touch with some guys in vc, this guys in vc then put me in touch with two lawyers that had just quit their full time jobs lawyers to launch their app. And like they walked me through the process and sort of like said, they said like they were pre revenue and they just took the leap and they were like, mate, you need to do it now. And then when I was speaking to like vc, they were like, if you want to, if you, if you want investment. We're not, there's no chance we're gonna invest in you if you're working a full time job as well. Like we need to see you fully committed to this and that. It was those sort of things that made me think like, if I want to take this business like to the next level, I just need to jump now.

Yeah. So how did you, you went through the whole of uni thinking that M and A, like corporate world was what you really wanted to do?

Yeah.

So even right up until the end of you and you convinced?

Yeah. So for me, like my whole life was structured.

Yeah. Were you doing any like reselling during uni at this point?

Yeah, so I always reselled. I'd say in my final year, probably in my final year I pretty much dropped off, but I had enough money banks.

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A reselling that like I didn't, I didn't have to worry like about working or anything like that. I was literally just fully committed to my studies in my final year.

And you went to York Uni? York, yeah. Why did you. York for uni. I swear it's a good uni.

Just a city, so.

Because I Went to Newcastle.

This is like, this is 100 the truth. So I. So I supposed to do biological sciences. Like, this is on the background of the nutrition. Like, I was interested in that. Sorry. I got accepted there but I decided like, prior to getting my results that I wasn't going to go if I got accepted because I just didn't want to go into that field anymore. So I was in New York at the time. My girlfriend had to give me my results. So she's like, you've got this. So then I rang up like clearing, like, no, I sat. I sat on my phone with my mom and dad and I literally picked the course that had the best name. So I seen like accounting, business, finance and management. I was like, that sounds fancy. And that is literally how I picked it. Like, I was like. And yeah, we just went from there.

And is that because you knew you wanted to go into that world or you just.

I've always wanted to go into business. So, like, I've got, like I said, so my uncle is really successful. He's. He was a consultant. One of my other uncles is an md. Like he's been MD at some big firms. And like, I've always been surrounded by that sort of corporate world.

Yeah.

Like my dad's in the same sense. It's like, it was sort of like natural for me. But the accounting, like, that was horrific. And that, that's, that's like. Yeah, that's part of the reason that I had to leave. Leave my other job as well. It's just too. Too time consuming.

Yeah. So getting started with the business, obviously six weeks before you started that job. Yeah, yeah. Did you know anything about how to start like an online business?

Because obviously absolutely nothing. Literally. I, I knew what, like from being in that original group at the start, I knew what needed to be in there. I knew I had all the contacts to get all of the software that I needed. I'd sort of built relationships in years and years, so I knew that everything was in place if I wanted to make this happen. So I literally, I wrote like an ebook, like, covered everything that I've ever learned. Like, and then we then put that in the group. That was like the first thing we did. And then, yeah, we just, just took it from there and literally just adapted as we went. Like, when we started, like, looking back on it now, it was probably a bit of a shambles, but you've got to start somewhere, haven't you? And now we've got it to a point where it's, it's Runs like clockwork.

And at the start, then after that, six weeks.

Yeah.

Like, how legit of a business was it when you launched it? Like, did it. You get customers quickly or.

No, no, no, no. It was slow at first. So, like, on launch day, I'd like, I'd done so much. I put so much work into it. And it's my brother's birthday. We went out for his birthday meal, and I got one sign up, like, to the business. And I was just sat there, upper face, like, slapped ass was like, I failed. Like, I've put this money into it. And I was just like, I can't believe it. Like, I've wasted so much time. But then I just felt like I just need to keep going, keep going. And everyone around me was saying that at the time. I just don't let your head go. And it was. It started picking up pace and then as we got to. So launched it in beginning. Let's say beginning of August, and then it started picking up pace around about December.

And this is on a monthly subscription.

Yeah.

Similar to Crep Chief. Yeah, yeah.

And then it coming into, like, December, January, February, it just exploded.

Yeah. And how are you getting customers at the start?

We literally. So I hired a guy before the company actually launched. I just spoke to him about the idea. It's called Food Review Club. And like, he literally just goes around to take away places around the country.

I swear I've seen probably the same guy. It's like some really fat guy.

Yeah, yeah, it was probably him.

Yeah.

So, like, he. I like, because I wanted to target the general public, so I wanted to go for people that had no idea what reselling was, and I wanted to be that training ground for them because there's already an area of Twitter, a high, like, really experienced people in the sneaker game. But the culture is so toxic. Like, if a beginner comes in and asks a question, they'll get laughed at. I wanted to be the solution to that and bring newcomers in and then be the stepping stone. So we. I thought, right, let's go. For someone who I know he's good on camera, can sell, but he's not. He's got an audience that are engaged with him and will believe and trust in him, but aren't aware of reselling probably whatsoever. And it just like the first, like, couple promotions didn't. Didn't work, didn't do anything. But the more he kept laying it on, it got to a point and then, yeah, that just exploded everything. It was like the perfect searches, influence marketing Basically, Yeah. To start with.

Yeah. And then that is a niche choice to do some food review, but probably makes sense. Yeah.

There was, like. Yeah, there was reasoning behind it, like. But, yeah. So then now we've gone into. So we work with Tom Skinner from the Apprentice, because he's just a character. Like, he's brilliant and he. Yeah, he does great for us. And we work with a few car guys as well, and we are.

Do you do any paid social.

Yeah.

Facebook ads as well?

Yeah, yeah. Like, that's. That's something that I want to sort of. I want to understand that by myself, because we're paying a lot of money to, like, agencies the moment. And I don't even know what I'm getting from the money, if that makes sense. Like, I don't see the return on investment and it's getting to a point where it's like, I wanna understand this myself so I can do something about it.

Yeah.

Because I don't. Like, we've been through, like, three. I think we've been for three agencies now.

Yeah. I went through seven over two years.

And, like, none of, like, the one we've got now is good, but the previous ones, like, they just. Like, it was just false promises, but we can do XYZ and just none of it came off. And then, like, I. I've lost so much money on ads, like, paying these. Com. Like. Like, I think our first one. Well, no, our second one we worked with. So, like, for clarity, now we pay, like, the company three grand a month now to manage them, but the company before, and we were paying them, like, seven grand a month and they did nothing, like. And I was like. And I'm just like, I've wasted so much money on it. Well, I guess it's learning.

Yeah. Yeah. And how quickly did you think, like, was there a point where you thought I probably could. Could quit my job before you actually did?

Yeah, yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Like, when. I think it was when the revenue of the business got to about four grand a month. And I was like, so we're doing over 40k a year now. Like, at that point, our margins were ridiculous. Like, if. I'd probably say, like, when. When we were just doing four grand a month, like, it was probably costing under a grand to run.

Yeah.

And then as we scaling it, like, it got to a point where, let's say, I think when we were at ten grand revenue, it was two grand to run.

Yeah.

So it was like.

Yeah, because margins always shrink.

Yeah. And then that, like, now it's. It's tough for us, but we. I think it was at the point when I like, and I said this to my boss at work, like when I was earning my day, I could pay myself my daily, my daily wage for my company. What I would earn in the month though. And that was like the point where I was like, I can't be wasting more time on my corporate job when I've got this opportunity in front of me that's paying me so much more that needs my attention.

Yeah.

And then that's from the like. So the guys that I run the NFT group with now, they were initially members of my group, then employees, then we're all mates and like now we start a company together.

So you've got the NFT Emporium. Yeah, that's what it's called. Right, yeah. As well.

Yeah.

And there's something else I know.

Yeah. So there is another one called Resale Concierge.

Yeah.

So that's one that I, I helped the start up of that but I don't have any sort of influence on the day to day run of that. I literally just helped it from the ground up and then I just take my kit back.

Yeah. Right. So obviously scaling the business while working a corporate job that I guess a lot of people would say is like fucking really good job. Like. Yeah, classic path, I suppose.

Yeah.

Why did you. Because I, I never went down like the whole, I never got sucked into like the corporate world because I was, I don't know, I guess I just like figured out what I was doing while I was in union and dropped out and that was just my path. But it seems very different to go from wanting to be like, I guess a big time like corporate player. And that's.

Yeah, yeah. My end goal was properly entrepreneurial. Yeah. Like my, my end goal was to like be a partner hedge fund. That's what I wanted.

Yeah.

But so I think it was for me it came a lot of it came from like the partner at the hedge fund I interned at when he like recognized me and like sort of like accepted me that like I then idolized him and I was like, I need to like do everything I can to make sure I impress this guy. Like because I want to be back there. Because like he said to me, he said one day, one day you're going to be hiring my son. And like that like I was like, like if he, if he's. Yeah, like if he's saying that to me, like it meant, it meant so much to me at the time because like I'D When I was trying to get internships, I said I got, I got that through networking. I applied for like over 100 internships, that I was nailing them and I got nowhere, like, and obviously getting that and then being appreciated by someone who's in one of the most prestigious firms in the UK was like massive for me. And then that's. I think that's where the tunnel vision came from. And it was sort of like, I know that I can, I can earn upwards of. I could, I could be earning like three quarters of a million, like up to a million. And then, then if, if you like, if you a hedge fund and then you take, you obviously take your management fee and stuff like that, it sort of becomes millions and millions. But now I know what it's like to get that to that point and I, I realize as well that that was never for me. Like the guys that are going to get them jobs are way more academic than me. Like, I've got like a. I'm not that numerous brainy guy. I'd rather like build something and just work hard at it. Like, it's like for me, stuff has never come easy. Like, I've never pick something up and like been judged, been fluid with it. I have to work for everything. And that's why I feel like what, like why I work well with these businesses. Because I'm willing to put it, put time in from the ground up and just wait until it will make sure that it. Keep.

It keeps going. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I'm probably gonna go off on a fucking tangent here. So it's kind of. I was at this like house party last night, which was like, it was a bunch of. It was called like an entrepreneur's house party. And I was like, whatever. Like I kind of, I knew the sort of people that be there before I went there. I'm not going to call any names, but it's a bunch of like VCs and like, in other words, like a bunch of people my age that are investors but have never built businesses and aren't entrepreneurs. Yeah. But think they're a big fish because they're spending other people's money.

Yeah.

Like one of those. Kind of similar to the whole like city vibe. Yeah. I put a tweet out as well. Maybe I'm just bitter because like it's never been my thing. But like, what did I say? Like, you walk around like Mayfair, whatever, like Barclay Square and I'll just be wearing like this outfit and then you get some kind of in like suit, you know, they think they're better than you.

Yeah, yeah.

100%. But you know that they're a corporate slave and I can go to Brazil tomorrow and do my own thing. Do you know what I mean? So like it's so different. It's a different way of viewing the world.

Yeah. And like that.

It is a different skill set as well though, like you're saying. I think some people love to. I'm probably gonna get fucking cans of like calling out corporate culture. But like they think that like that is everything because they can make money. But like the way I've always thought about it is there's like three pillars to like how you get paid. It's like money. Like money, location, freedom and like enjoyment, I guess.

Yeah.

So like I always thought, well, I'd rather get paid. I would rather hypothetically make 100 grand on a laptop doing some I love that's creative or whatever than a million quid in an 18 hour a day desk job where I have to be in the city for 40 years until I'm 50 or 60. So I mean.

And that's close. Yeah.

And the irony is I could probably make way more money anyway building a business that I'm passionate about, which is what I'm in the process of doing now anyway.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's just most people because of like school, university, fucking media conditioning, like genuinely, without being too conspiracy theory, like they just don't see it that way.

No. And it's okay. Like I was. If it wasn't for like the thing is. Yeah, if it wasn't. I love like the idea of the ripple effect like where if I wouldn't have got that pair of trainers on that day. Like, so when I got those, that first pair of trainers, I had no money in my bank. My mom and dad had to transfer me money like that. So many things could have gone wrong with that transaction and it all just fell into place and that changed my life. Like, and it's now like if I hadn't done that, I would probably be in that, that position of just being stuck in the nine to five.

Yeah, it's mad. Yeah.

Literally. Yeah, yeah. It's that that one transaction seven years ago has completely changed that.

Gave you like the little spark of our. I can do my own thing.

Yeah. I, I found out how much money you could make and shoot. I had no interest. I didn't even know it was a thing. And it's like. Yeah, it's, it's like I love reflecting on Stuff like that. Like, that's when it gets a bit.

I spend way too much time reflecting on, like, every element of my life. Yeah, it's like a movie scene in my head every time. But, yeah, we're only 25 minutes in, so I'm gonna bring it back to, like, normal shit before I go too deep. Coming back to scaling the business then.

Yeah.

Like, was it. Obviously it was literally you working, I guess, in evenings, weekends, whatever.

Yeah.

Alongside your job to start with. Did you, like, scale a team around that eventually or.

Yeah.

So how did you.

Basically the setup was I launched at the start. I luckily got given a Twitter that was in that field with like 3,000 followers. So I put up a, like, just like a. A post to like an application form to work for us. And this was before we started. And I basically hired a load of students at the time, like, and they were all really passionate about trainers. So they came in at the start and they, like, a lot of them are still with us today there. We've only had two people leave in, like, since we've been running, so, like, we've had low churn. But for me, like, my. My routine became start work at probably around about half eight. I'd work until about six. I'd then study for me ACA from six till like nine and then I would work on aftermarket from say like 9 till 11 or 9 till midnight, like. So then I got to a point where I was like, getting in a rope because I had no life. Like, I would, like, the gym fell off, relationship fell. Like, I was like, just work, work, work, work.

Yeah.

And then that's when it was like. Yeah. So that's when I then, like, I was making decent money, but I knew that I had to hire more people. So my brother now works for me full time and we've now got a team of around about 15. They've expanded to run the day to day. So it's now. Now at the point where I generally could get away with not looking at the discord all day.

Yeah. Is it fully remote? Do you have an office?

It's fully remote, but the. The apartment I'm moving into, my brother has like, the top. The top floor is an office. So we're going to start bringing some of the lads in there.

Yeah. Sick. Sick. And how do you see? Like, obviously I'm. I don't want to reference the previous episode too much because it's similar to Crept Chief, but, like, how do you see? What do you think the vision is for a business Model like this is it just to. I guess, obviously, ultimately it's a SaaS business, right?

Yeah.

Software as a service. Do you think there's, like. Is there a ceiling in terms of how many people you can get because of the way it works, like being reselling? Because I know the previous guys mentioned that.

Yeah. I think in my opinion, there is a bit of a. There's got to be a ceiling because, like, we can see with the larger groups, like, the damage that can be caused throughout the resale market where, like, if you let 10,000 people lose a product.

Yeah.

The price is just going to fall through the floor. Whereas if, like, a thousand people were controlling the price of that product, it would be hyped up. Like, it's like, it does get to a point, but for me, I. I want to take aftermarket and make it more of, like, also, like a lifestyle brand. Like, I don't want to just be benefiting people financially. Yeah. So I want to start working on, like, mental health entrepreneur, like, bringing in entrepreneurs to do talks, motivational talking. So, like, business coaching. Like, we want to sort of bring people more value than just financial gain.

Yeah.

So that we can assist them in other parts of life. Because, like, it gets to a point where, yeah, we can provide every flip that's out there right now. But then how do you differentiate yourself from the other groups that are also providing every other flip? Because the. Pretty much every group's doing the same. Like, there's a similar. Yeah. Like, it's. So it's like it. It is what it is. It's. But it's. It's like little things like this where I want to bring in more value than just financial. And, like, we've had a good response so far in terms of people wanting to see this. Like, because a lot of people who do want to start their own businesses and all want to scale, they want. They want that initial support.

Yeah.

So, yeah. Something we're looking into.

Do you think it's a business that ultimately you could sell and get an exit from?

Yeah. So when I was speaking. Yeah. When I was speaking with vc, they put, like, evaluation on it. And I've worked. So my accountant also does, like, a lot of corporate finance stuff, like ESS in, like, M A. And he's put value on it as well. Like, and if someone. And like, for me, working M and A, I knew what multiples of revenue. I knew exactly. I. I got to a point where I was like, I know what my company's worth now. And, like, and then I'd heard it off these guys as well. Like the vc. When the VC guy like pretty much said to me the same as what I'd been thinking, like, I was like, it was mind blowing because I, I like to go from. So it was 2, 2000 pound. It cost me the initial to start it. And so it went from like a 2,000 pound investment. It's like a seven figure valuation within eight, nine months.

Yeah.

Like, and for me that was huge. Like, that was something that was like, I never thought it was gonna happen. Like, I thought aftermarket would be something that I'd make money from for a few months and then I just close it and now it's a different beast. But yeah, like I don't think right now I wouldn't sell, but I'm interested in hearing valuations of it and what.

Yeah.

And seeing because for me it's like, it'd be interesting to see who would actually. Who's actually in the market to take over company. Because for me the only other people is like, let's say Crep Chief would just acquire us or acquire another company. So I've got approached by a group with 200 members to buy them last week, but it just, it doesn't make any sense. Like they want it, they want me to buy the company, but to keep them separate. Like, not merge.

Yeah.

So I'm not going ahead of it, but it's sort of like the only other people. But I don't think anyone from a VC realistically would come into the space. Like there's no one in it. It's like it's only the bigger players and like the crap Chief guys are the biggest in the game. So it's like, it's sort of like bigger than you. Yeah, yeah. Like they would.

How much bigger do you know?

I reckon, I RECKON they're about 2.5 times bigger.

Yeah.

Well, there's five of them, one of me. Four of four or five.

Yeah. I've always thought that this. I've always been a solo founder because I've always thought why would I want to split the fucking pie with five people or two people? But I guess everyone's different. Has there ever been like chopping the change between topics here? But there's ever been like, has it been any like beef being the fact that you come from like this same place and shit and you're in a similar.

Oh yeah. Like they know like about this, like who started first. So they started first.

Yeah.

So like there was a lot of like and I was Literally speaking to Will about this last night when we were out together, like, I was devastated when I found out they set up a group. And, like, I was involved in it because me and Will started reselling together. And then Milo got on board, then Brad and Tom. Yeah, Literally everyone just started getting on it. And then I went to uni. And that's sort of like when I became distanced from them. And then. But I was still reselling. I still talked to them all the time, but then, like, they never told me, so this is like a funny story. So, like, they never told me about the group. And I got, like, linked to it on Twitter. Like, someone messaged me, said, what's this? I was like, I don't know. And then I went on to Discord. And, like, Milo had spelled his name backwards so it was Olim instead of Milo. And he's like. He confessed it to me in Santa Fe. He was like, yeah. The only reason I did that was so that you wouldn't realize it was me. Like, I was just like, yeah. So it's like the walls, like. And, like, it. It did hit me hard that because we'd all started together, I. The original group, so it's called One Stop Cop. That was the, like, the original one. I brought that to them. And then, like, I was like, we've all been in this together. Why am I not including this? And it was like. But I get it. Because they were all seeing each other in daily basis. I was at uni, stuff was different.

You copped out. Yeah. You pussied out this entrepreneurial.

Literally.

You chose that. Chose the green pillar, whatever it's called.

Yeah.

Do you think having obviously, like, I guess a proper education, but more importantly, like, experience in the corporate world, particularly in the shit you were doing, I think that helped you set up the business, or do you think it's completely different skill set?

The. The thing that I think that it's helped me with the most is actually being able to deal with people, like, and sort of handle basic customer service. Like, we. The way that, like, some of the people. Some of, like the young people that I come across who've had no experience in, like, working a proper job and all they've done is reselling.

Yeah.

They're like, actual, like, manners and way of speaking to other people is appalling. And, like, it's like, you want you. If you ever have to. Well, not once. If you ever have to step into the real world, like, you're gonna have a shock because you're not gonna Be able to speak to people like, the way you do. Like, it's like constant beefing. Like, like keyboard worry stuff. And like, it's like, like. So I had a conversation with someone the other day and I was like, I was asked. So they, like, they filed a charge back against me. And that's like, really damaging for our business.

Like, I've dealt with, yeah, literally seven figures in 2020.

Yeah, I, I, I literally. Because I knew the guy. So I asked him why, and he just went in on me saying, like, you're a pussy. And I was like, what do you mean? I've asked you a question. Like, why, like, some of these people you come across, like, they just don't know how to interact and they, they don't know how to have a mature conversation. And that's what happened.

Majority of the country. Yeah.

And that's what I feel like people.

That are in the real world.

Yeah, that's, that's like what I feel like for me, I, what I've learned is being able to approach anyone and be. Because for me as an owner, I'm, like, liked by pretty much every other group owner. And like, like, for example, the crep chief lads are hated by a lot of other groups. I'm in a good position with everyone because I feel like I've always kept good relationships. And that's what I feel like the corporate, like, sort of life told me.

Yeah, yeah. Don't burn bridges.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. And that, that's like the most important one. Don't burn bridges. Like, that's something.

Yeah. Actually was speaking to a mate in Brazil about this last week and yeah, it's like a half an hour conversation, I think. So. True. I would make the effort not to burn bridges even if I thought someone was complete cunt. Because it just, it doesn't look well on you.

You don't. Like, this is like.

And I know people that have burnt bridges. Someone that was actually on this podcast, an early episode.

Yeah.

He just, he basically cut off all his mates over nothing. And I'm like, what are you doing? This is gonna, you're really gonna regret this. Yeah, yeah. Because you can't go back on that.

No.

No. People. Yeah.

It's like. And that's it. You never ever know when, when something's gonna come in under. Like, there's a. At the most, like, like, for me, like, feeling like I'd failed trying to get an internship and then managing to find it from someone at the gym, like, the most unexpected time I Just returned back from uni to train at the gym, and then one of my old friends from working there managed to plug me with a hedge fund job. Like, it's stuff like that that you, like, you've got to maintain. Like, you can't think, you can't ever think you're better than someone and detached yourself from. From, like, where you. Where you come from.

Yeah, so true. Like, I always say that you can lose all the money in the world, but if you got a good network and experience, probably most importantly, good network from experience, then it's fucking like you're fine.

Yeah. And if you. If you've got that in place, like, I'd also believe that if you'd lost all your money, if you've got that in place, you're on the right path to getting it all back again.

Exactly. That's kind of what's happened with me. I lost a lot of money, but fucking. You don't lose the connections you have and experience you have and then you do it again and it's. And it's five times easier.

Yeah. So how. How, like, did you deal with that? Because for me, I'm very, very worried about. So as quick as aftermarket grew, I'm worried about it crashing just as quick. And it's something that plays on my mind all the time, like, as we. Our, like, the business has been strolling the past month and like, yeah, I.

Think start 2022 has been bad for a lot. Yeah.

We're getting hit the NFT groups, everything in our sector has been hit hard. And it's sort of like, for me, it's like, like, it's a bit like, what's gonna happen here?

And I find this such an interesting topic. So, yeah, like, sorry, I cut you off. No, no, Karen, your question is, how did I deal with that?

Yeah, like, yeah.

Yeah. I kind of discussed this broadly, like, on a few pods, but, like, for me, it's always just been like, literally, I could be like. I mean, what am I trying to say? I guess I've genuinely never been worried that I won't work out. Yeah. I genuinely mean that from the core of my being, because I know that I'm good enough.

Yeah.

I think that's key. I'm not deluded. I know I'm good enough. I know people around me are on a certain level as well, and I know that I'm fucking, like a sicko cunt if I want to be. Like, get it done. I just, I've always. That's just a mindset like. And yeah, I felt very close to like losing everything when Fucking like this time last year, like a bit before. But I knew I'd work out and I did work it out ultimately and like made the very best of it. I made pretty good out of a very shit situation.

Yeah.

But I think, yeah, like, I guess it was humbling because, yeah, I went from feeling like I was on top of the world and like everything was perfect to ultimately what I would say is like rock bottom really for a few months, but then I now feel way stronger.

Yeah.

Which is such a cliche and. But like, I know a lot more about the certain sides of business. I'm way more experienced. Yeah. I reckon I know more than any dom that's got an mba, to be honest. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like genuinely, like, because I dealt with all these funds and like lawyers, a lot of problematic side done it all.

You've not studied at all. Like, you've.

Yeah, exactly.

Like you've experienced it first hand. And when. When, like, if these businesses are solely owned by you, that pressure is all on you, like.

Yeah. So that's why I went down a different route with this next business. So now I raise a bunch of funding for this. Yeah. But, yeah, then that was mainly because I just didn't want to do it myself again. Yeah, but again that was. I've got a mad network and like some of the investors are crazy like the built literally unicorn businesses and. But that network's come from the compound effective other I've done. So like, even the bad stuff that happened.

Yeah, yeah.

It still ended up actually got me certain things that I met certain people through that I wouldn't have met if she hadn't gone bad.

Yeah. So you. And the end result has been positive, like from.

Yeah. I feel like if you ultimately. And it comes back to what I was saying before, like, if you ultimately try. Try and do the best you can in any situation and keep like a moral compass. Yeah. Then usually it'll come good, I think. Yeah. As long as you fucking like face. Face the music when shit goes wrong.

So like on just out of interest. Yeah, yeah, out of interest. What. So on the top of moral compass. So like we get absolutely railroad in our industry for what we do.

Yeah.

What do you think about it? Like, because.

Well, I can see why. Because. Not that I agree with it, but I imagine it's the whole. I think there's two sides to it. I'm going to sound controversial here. I think the market that you're selling to is. It's a, it's a, I guess a lower portion of the kind of the market in terms of like lower income jobs, that sort of stuff. And I think there's a correlation between that and people that like to talk shit online.

Yes.

Because I experienced it when Neon beach went wrong.

Yes.

It was only people that were from certain walks of life that would make these threats online. Because anyone else knows that's not how you deal with the problem. Like. Yeah, like keyboard warriors.

Yeah.

Generally have similar backgrounds and shit. What I'm trying to say. So I think that's the first one, but I guess it falls into that. Does it fall into like kind of the whole guru category which people hate? Like teaching people how to make money?

No, no. But literally the only haters, they come from consoles.

Like bots and shit.

Yeah. But even when we were just doing sneakers, we got no hate. It was sort of accepted. It's this console thing that has just ripped it all apart and parents saying the kids couldn't get this and like, like, and this is it. So like for me, I've experienced it now where. So sky came to me and said, we've written article and we want your opinion on it. Like. And so I was like, okay, give them my opinion. Like that. And they said like, blah, blah. And then he went, right. It was the next day actually. He said, the article's live. And I looked, there was no other story. The whole thing was just what I've been talking about. He'd pasted my name everywhere and my company and I'd never given permission to.

Use it in a bad way.

Yes.

Horrendous saying. It was like a scam.

Literally. Just like when, when the guy was interviewing me, I got off and like my mum was like, how'd it go? And I was like, it wasn't good though I could tell he had like the interviewer had. He was passionate in a way that he hated what I was doing. Like he already came into that closed minded. And yeah, he then portrayed it horrendously. It then got picked up by every other news outlet. It did the rounds. Loads of death threats, blah, blah.

Yeah.

It then quietened down. Yeah.

Makes me feel better that other people have been there.

It quiet down. It picked up again. It went around even worse. But then like we were getting people from Russia, like this was a couple weeks ago. We were getting people from Russia, like Taiwan, Singapore, France, join the aftermarket, like everywhere. And I was like, what is happening with this? It's crazy. And then. But all these are all negative Stories like, making me out to be, like, the devil. And then the BBC add a documentary last night on us showing the flip side of the coin.

Just. Just specifically on you or the whole.

Me and Aftermarket on BBC. Yeah. And it's. It's a good watch, to be fair. I'll show you later. But it's. They. They show the flip side of the coin because. So I'd film with the BBC before the Sky News article dropped. And then when he seen what happened and what they'd done, he was like, I know that you're not this bad person. So he was like, right, we're gonna. We're gonna work to actually show the flip side of the coin. So then they got members, like, people's lives that we changed.

Yeah.

Like, people that are doing reselling to keep a roof over the head and, like, to show that. That it's not just greedy kids. People are doing this for legit reasons.

Yeah.

And it sort of provided that contrast. And.

Yeah.

Like, it's. It's come, like, again today. I've been flooded with death threats again. Like, and. But it's just like, if you've got time to sit at your laptop, death threat to me, like, go and buy something up, be productive, do something else.

Yeah. Like, I've said it so many times, it's the truest thing ever. Like, no one that's written hate online ever has done anything with that.

Because I don't feel like.

Not even, like, a small thing. I've never written. Hey, online.

I've never. Yeah. I've never ever felt the need to go into someone's, like, Instagram comments or anything and just, like, railroad. I don't. To me, it doesn't add up.

No. I just should feel sorry for people like that. Like. Yeah, it's fucking mad. Yeah. The whole, like. I think anything at scale online just attracts some sort of hate, doesn't it? Yeah, because the whole keyboard warrior nature, like, because it's online, people feel anonymous.

And it's same thing with, like. I even watch it with, like. Like, for example, food we could. We work with. He doesn't even. He literally provides free videos online. Reviewing food and the amount of hate that he gets, like, it's not even nest. What? What? There's no need for it. I don't. I don't get it.

But, yeah, I think it's because ultimately a lot of people live very sad lives and just their outlet is hating on people that are doing stuff that they never had the balls to do.

Yeah.

That really is It.

Yeah. And that's like, so this, for me, like, like touch on this. This is like. And I say it's my mates all the time and it probably winds them up. But my uncle said it to me and it literally stuck with me and it changed, like, literally, like, it changed my life. So my uncle said to me, like, it's not a dress rehearsal. And like, when I heard that, like, I was like, I've only got one shot of this life. Like, I want to make sure that I have the best life possible. And like, I will do whatever I can to make sure that I have a good life, but my family have a good life. I want, I want my kids to be supported and then my grandkids to like, I want like generational wealth. Like, I want everyone to be looked after. He's like, at the end of the day, like, if you want one shot, why not do absolutely everything? You can take up every opportunity.

Yeah.

And it's like that for me is like, it's. It's so motivating and I don't understand, like, for me, like, it doesn't add up when people are just happy. Like joy staying static in one place. I get that, the security. But it just doesn't. It doesn't make sense to me. Like, my personality.

Yeah, I completely agree. But that's because you wired different if you're an entrepreneur. Like everyone that watches this podcast.

Yeah.

It's just a fact. Like the whole 99.1% whatever, like cliche, but there's no better or worse. But it just, it is a different way of viewing the world and it ultimately comes down to a create over consume mindset.

Yeah.

I always say that like it's on the fucking Midnight Co website, but it's so true.

Yeah.

Like, if you're not ultimately a good barometer of like, I don't know, if you're just doing cool shit. I think it's like if you're making more than you're consuming to like make a podcast instead of watch Love Island. Yeah, Dog's crying, something like that. And like. Yeah, I just think most people aren't wired that way or they've been conditioned to believe they aren't that way. And probably a combination of both. And. Yeah, I guess when it's like someone's happy just doing nothing, that's fine. There's no problem with that. But when they start hating online, that's a different ball game.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's sad.

And start. Start projecting that hate onto people that actually are doing something. Like that. That. Yeah.

And then I think you probably get people that stop doing the thing in the early stages because they got hate or something.

Oh, yeah.

So I used to get hate for putting YouTube music videos out when I was 17 on YouTube and, like, whatever. And I actually stopped doing them.

Yeah.

Yeah. That wasn't my career path anyway. In the end, it's kind of deep.

It's the point, isn't it?

You've got any experience or something like that that might throw you off a path that could have been interesting.

Yeah.

It's such a shame, but I feel like that's like.

It's a massive one that we YouTube in it. Like, anyone who's starting YouTube at the start, I'm pretty sure everyone gets railroaded.

Just content of any kind. Yeah, yeah. It's actually so true. But, like, literally every single thing ever since starts from nothing. Yeah. That's the thing, I think people, you have to remember, like, every business, every celebrity, sports person, whatever it is, if you don't make the first move, whether that's like buying a domain name, like, with me doing this first episode, I was probably shitting myself. Yeah. If you don't do it, you'll never know. If you don't do it, it will never become anything. And that goes, like, even, like, as far as, like, speaking to a girl that you like.

Yeah, literally.

Actually, though, like. Because I completely agree with the, like, it's not a dress rehearsal thing. Like, I've started getting to that point now. It's like, if you don't ask, you won't get with anything. It's not gonna happen.

And that's it. Like, you've gotta. You've got to, like, test it and you've got to see what you can do. Like, there's no. There's no. There's no time to. There's literally no time to waste. Like, don't wait. It doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it's so true. So true. Come back to the business end quickly. How was that? And we touched on it brief before we start recording. Like, what was it like when you quit then? Because obviously, like I said before, I never went into the corporate world. So you had quite a big contrast, I guess, from having that. That structure to having, I guess, no structure apart from the structure you give yourself.

Yep. So what was that like for me? I still 100% struggle with that today. It's something that I'm getting better with, but because I was conditioned from uni and working so many hours, like, just studying to then going into my job and doing like literally like, like I said I was doing let's say 8 to 11. Like every. I was working all the time and then going into a job where it's like I'm actually free now. Like.

It's a big difference.

It's like. So for me like, and this is like I speak to my friends about it all the time because I struggle with it. Because if I'm not constantly busy and this is what a reason why I want to go into investment banking because I knew that I'd be essentially work like a dog. I knew that I'd be like made to work because if I'm not busy all the time, my mindset's going like. And I want, I want to be busy. I want to be doing something productive.

Agreed.

And for me it was then. Now I'm at the point where I'm constantly second guessing things because yeah, we've got freak. Well I've got another company as well. But let's say four companies set up now and I'm, it's like they all pretty much run themselves and it's sort of like now what do I do? Like, like I find myself like, I like it's like I do the bit, I do what I need to do every day but then I find that I've got more hours left where to me I should be working because I been conditioned to be that way and I do want to be working but it's just finding what I should be working on. And that's where I need to improve now. 100 like I need to know where to allocate my time better. But I guess like from only running a company for let's say 18 months, that's going to come with time where I'm gonna have to learn because it's like with like let's say aftermarket, it's only ever been good, good times until right now. Now's the bad time. So it's now where we need to learn how to deal with it.

And why is it a bad time.

Now in terms of cancellations, skyrocketing and membership sign member acquisition cost.

Yeah.

Is memorizing cost going up. So like we, we were at a point like in lockdown. We were doing like let's say anywhere from 20 to 40 sign up today and we were getting like maybe one or two cancers a day. And at the moment we're getting let's say 5 to 15 cancels a day and then on average free sign ups a day. Like it's, it's declining. But then like we had the BBC today, so we've. We've been absolutely flooded today. Today's been probably one of the best days ever.

Yeah.

But like, we can't rely on that. Like that's gonna go. That effect is gonna wash away. So it's. For me, I have to find how do we. The post lockdown post. Like when everything does eventually get back to normal, like, I have to with this extra freedom that I've earned from leaving my corporate job. Like, I need to know how to utilize that to make these sign ups consistent and then also bring our cancellations down to a point where we're steadily growing, we're not falling again.

Yeah, yeah. I think lockdown, I mean it was definitely a boom for same with me in 2020. I'd like my best months ever in the middle of 2020.

Yeah.

And then had issues. But then 2021 was harder for a lot of brands as well. But I think, yeah, you just pivot, don't you pivot and work it out. Like, at the end of the day, I don't. I never get that stress by like, I mean, I don't really watch. I don't watch the news anyway because there's a lot of negative propaganda. But I never get that stress by like world events and shit because ultimately, like every business and person is experiencing the same thing. Granted, they're different foundations and different starting points, but like, I feel like ultimately if you just focus on the fundamentals of having a good product and like good service and I just feel like it works itself out ultimately. Like, there's obviously ups and downs, but.

So have you ever found yourself at a point where like, so obviously you've had your success and you, you still got it, but have you found yourself like, like where you've got too much free time, you don't know what to do with it? Because this is what I'm struggling with.

Like, I probably, I probably felt that in like mid-2020, when everything was probably like the peak it's ever been in terms of numbers and had a lot of people working for me and shit felt very smooth. But then, But I guess, yeah, it's like, it's like when it rains, it pours for good and bad, I think. I think life's very much seasoned. And then it felt like it fucking poured negatively for like 12 months. And then I was dealing with loads of issues and then I guess now I'm busy because I've been past few months been working on this next thing. But and yeah, I didn't feel that busy for a while because there's only so much I could do and now it's like two weeks out of launching and I felt really busy again. I don't know. So I guess yes, but there's always summit to like I suppose what maybe comes with experiences, the things I would think about now and shit is going well is like planning for when it's not going to be going so well and because it's always going to be ups and downs.

So for us with aftermarket, what we've done now is we've now launched Amazon as like section. So Amazon for us is consistent sales. Like you can walk into any, any supermarket around there, pick up a lot of stuff, sell on Amazon, pretty much make a 30 ROI. Like it's pretty crazy. And that's like steady. It's every day of the year you can go do it. So like we're now that like that's the next venture like for us. Like that's what I'm trying to do to keep myself busy, like to focus on building that, progressing that because that hopefully will future proof us once the consoles and everything else go away because they're not going to last forever.

Yeah, I think there's always something to. Probably comes down to like if you enjoy the business as well because like there's always something to build in it. Like I feel like, yeah, if you're a true like entrepreneur and you're not just in it for like short term money which by the way I think most people at least in like the online sphere probably are. Yeah, like chasing short term cash. And I know a lot of those people, they're not really building anything but like if you are building something legit that you're passionate about, then I think there's always something to do because it's just what you do in it. Like there's always something to work on at the next thing, whether that's the next bit of content, like the next product release, something you find it and like yeah, there's always a, I guess it's like a carrot on a stick or whatever. Like there's always a goal. Yeah, yeah, fucking moving. And you'll probably never get there because when you get there there's a new one. But yeah, I think, yeah, it comes with experience I suppose and like maybe age and yeah, because I just think now I'd be way more prepared for knowing that when, like when shit's going really well, it's probably not going to go really well forever. Like, even if that's, like, your personal life or. Yeah. Yeah. Because. Yeah. I mean. Yeah.

Oh, no, it definitely happens.

And now I feel like I'm on the up again.

Yeah.

Where things are actually aligned quite well and I feel, like, excited again. But, yeah, I went through a long time of thinking, like, have I lost, like, the. Have I peaked already? Yeah. Now it's like, now I definitely haven't. I've just had a taste of certain stuff. Yeah.

See that. Because, like, that's been my exact worry as well. Like, it's that in some. What some. Obviously, like, some people wouldn't class it success, but some people would like success at an early age. Like, it's like, it. I feel like if I. If this all crash and burned, like, I don't know, like, it would hit me so hard. Like, I don't know what to do with myself. Like. But I guess that's where it falls, that, like, you get to a point where you will not let it crash and burn. Like, you will keep working no matter what, to make sure that the businesses survive. Like, or. Or you then switch on to the next thing that you know is gonna work.

You pivot.

Yeah.

That's the thing. Like, you don't lose. Yeah.

Because that's not gonna go, is it? Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

Like, you always got more context than you have before because it's like.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, like, if everything did crash and burn, what would you do tomorrow? Start again? That's at least. That's what I'd do.

Yes.

And that's what I did.

Yeah. Yeah.

Basically, obviously I'd do that. What the fuck else would I do? There's probably a lot of people that are watching from the sidelines that. From, like, back home, whatever. They're like, oh, he'll go and get a normal job now.

Yeah.

It's like, nah, I'd literally like the. I'd rather die than give up on my potential.

Yeah. The thought of that, for me now, like, going back to, like, a 9 to 5 is terrifying. Like, I never want to have to experience it, and I don't think I ever will.

I don't think you have to. If you've got. If you got, like, big enough balls to back yourself, like. Yeah, I think that's what it comes down to. Like, you just. You're gonna do it. Just fucking. Are you gonna figure out. Yeah. At the end of the day.

Yeah.

I just truly believe that. And, like, yeah, some people just aren't wired that way, but those that are, I think, ultimately the ones that end up doing it because they believe they could and they did.

Yeah. It's what it comes down to being like. Like, it's like that cliche term of like, a salary being a drug that, like, just. Yeah, it's like a dream killer. Like, it, like. And it is because if people. If you want the safety of that salary, everything else is constrained. Like. Yeah, to a certain extent. Yeah. Well, yeah, it is constrained. And like, it was with me and like. But now, like, it's even the little things. Like, when I was working full time, I couldn't get any viewings to go and try to get an office. Like, because no, everyone was doing stuff midweek and I was obviously working all the time. And it's little things like that where, like, you then appreciate the freedom because you're like, I can go and expand the business in ways that like. Like just looking for an office. It's simple, but it's like, you know it's gonna be beneficial.

Yeah. Do you think getting like, I guess kind of similar to me, like, a taste of, like, making big money when you're young. Because that's ultimately what it is that you're driving, like, a McLaren and shit. And I'm a big car guy, so I can relate to that. Like, do you think that is all it's cracked up to be? Because I often say this to people that, like, I used to get messages being like, oh, like, your life's so perfect or whatever. And particularly when I was probably flexing more on Instagram and shit. But I think you just realize that it's all about, like, the pursuit of the next thing.

So it's exactly that. So for me, it's like, people can, like, people say it to me all the time. Like, my mates, like, from when we're at high school, they, like, they think everything's like, if they see, like, the characters of, like, oh, my God, like, you're doing so well. But that's not what. Like, that's not what I'm focused on. Like you said, it's. That's not like, what I look for as like a. I don't know the word. Like a reward. Like we say, like, reward mechanism. Like, I don't get that out of that. It would be seeing the business grow or reaching your tag. Like, reaching. I'd rather reach new, like, revenue milestone with a company than have the car and sort of be sort of like, in quote unquote, what other people think is, like, living the dream because it's not like, when I got that, like, so much other stuff was happening. Like. And like you said, it's not. I feel like I'm waffling a bit, but it's like, it's not what it. Like once you get it, like, you realize that. Well, for me, I thought it hasn't been that hard to get. And I haven't got that sense of, like, overwhelming that I thought I would have. When I've got it, it's.

It's very fleeting.

Yeah. It's become like. It's put. Like, this was, like, too easy to get. Like, it. Not to sound like. But it. But it felt like that at the time. It's like this. And. Yeah. Like, it's just. It's not for me. It's not like, for me, it. The money does not make you happy. It's like, it's progress that makes me happy with, like, the business. Yeah, that. The money. The money. Money that is like a. Something I'm really big on. Is that, like, I've been like, some of the lowest of my lows when my business was the biggest. Like. But if you keep focusing on, like, the. The actual, like, progress of your company, for me, anyway, focus on progress of a company and having that. That goal as opposed to, like, what car I'm driving or what watch I'm wearing, that. That is more rewarding and more intrinsically benefiting me than driving a flash car. Like. Like, now I don't have a car.

Yeah. Neither do I need. But I actually remember. I think this is such an interesting topic because probably not that many people at a relatively young age have experienced it and then had that, like, spiritual awakening or whatever. But I remember driving my green Audi R8 in, like, May 2020, and this was like, peak Covid numbers. Everything was great. I remember stopping and being like, why do I feel so empty? And I wrote a note in my phone and think I've still got it. I don't know. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was like. It was like, fuck. And it was shit. Like, living things over material things. Like, it was like a bunch of bullet points and it'll be some shit that I'll probably put in a documentary in, like, 30 years. But it was like. I still think that, like, cars and stuff are sick and, like, it's just fun. But, yeah, it's a classic case. You have to have it to realize that it doesn't fill a void.

No. Yeah, that's the thing.

It does. Yeah.

Like, yes, it's Fun. Like, I had, like I said, driving Santa Fe in that car, the time I thought we. I was like, Santa Fe. I was going. Picking up girls in the car. Like, I was on. I felt on top of the world. And at that point, it was brilliant. But then, like, you realize that it's not. It's not all, like, yeah, at the time it might have, like, reflecting back on it now. It's not everything. Like, it's not. It's not. You don't need it.

It's a good story, though.

Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, but like, I'm. That's the thing. Like, I'm. I'm very grateful for having that car like, it, like, pretty much for the Santa per trip. Because it was like. It was insane. What, Like, I was like, there and, like, driving down there. It was an experience. And it was something that, like, I'll never forget. And I always say, like, and this is like, how I'm living a bit at the moment in terms of enjoying myself is like, you can't put a price on your memories. Like, and I'm having, like, a really good time with friends and we're doing stuff that, like, is making us happy. And if other people, like, other people are saying to me at the moment, like, oh, like, I'd have to take a loan out to come out with you and stuff like that. And I don't like hearing that. Like, it's like, like, you're constantly focusing on the financial aspect of it when we're just like, we're not thinking about that, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

So, like, yeah, I do. Like, people are constantly, like, trying to anything that, like, I feel like I'm doing a lot at the moment. Like, if you're just going on holiday, like, like, like, I went to Paris like, a few times, like, so with the Crep Chief lads. Like, they. We went last week and then I went with the NFT guys. One of the Crep Chief lads, Brad, messaged me from Crep Chief on Thursday. Put flight tomorrow, question mark. I was like, I'm in. It's fashion Week.

Yeah.

Like, and then it was like, yeah, like, but then people messaging me, like, and, like, they sort of like, bring it. Like, I feel like I get a lot of, like, negative, negative. Like, they talk about my experiences negatively because they just focus it on money. They're not saying, like, you look like you. You look like you're really happy. You enjoy yourself. It's like, how much money you spending? Yeah, it's like, that's not what this is about like, it's not that.

And yeah, I completely agree. Like, I think there's a bigger point there. Like, you get the whole. I've never, never ever agreed with the whole hustle till you fall, you then live, like, mentality, which is kind of like, was a bit more pushed by like Gary Vee and shit, like a few years ago. It's kind of changed a little bit on that because I've always tweeted about this, about studies and Twitter loads because the organic region is mad. But I was like, yeah, it's. It's about. I think you can build something great, like a proper business, but still like, make mad memories and like travel to sick places.

Yeah.

And that's why I went to like Brazil for like 10 days. Yeah. Three days notice. It's just crooked and that.

Yeah, that's what it's about.

Mad stories.

Yeah.

I still, obviously I'm not doing that all the time. It's probably like 80, 20, but. Or 9010 more realistically. But I've always lived like that. Like the past few years, like, I guess even when shit was like, really, I guess in my mind, like rock bottom, I was still like traveling and shit. So I guess it was never that bad. But for me, that, Yeah, I couldn't imagine thinking, oh, like, I'm gonna. I don't know, I get to where I want financially, say quicker if I don't do any of that, if I don't ever party, if I don't ever speak to girls, all this shit. Like, I just don't subscribe to that. Yeah. Because I could fucking get cancer tomorrow.

So this is it. So, like I had like, like in my family we had like, like a serial number of events that like, happened, like, where, like so many people's in my family's life changed like overnight, like, and then from that, like, down, like every. Like my mum and dad and then became like, so supportive of me. Like, they were just like, just do it. Like, do it like, because you don't know what's gonna happen. Like, so, like. And like, it is. It's like seeing someone who's like in your family, like, the pitch of health deteriorate over like, so the short term, like, so rapidly. Like, it's like, like this can be taken away at any time. It's like, yeah. And then this is what annoys me. It's like people like, yeah, you're being stupid with your money. Like, why are you getting a car? Yeah, save your money. Like, you. Why are you doing this? And it's like, yeah, because, because we live once. Like, we live once. Like, and if I want to be 20 and if I want to enjoy myself, like for every, let's say for every stupid, like what you would some people class as stupid, let's say get in a car.

Yeah. How about that?

I'm for every sort of cliche, stupid decision. I'm also investing in something. I'm making a smart decision.

Yeah.

Like I'm doing something that will protect me for my future, but I'm also then enjoying myself at the same time.

Yeah. It's getting that balance right. Yeah. And like.

We don't need to be like, we don't need to be like, like a squirrel, like just burying all our money. Like we.

Yeah. I honestly think like if I died tomorrow, for the amount of years I've lived, I'd be pretty satisfied. Like I've done some mad shit. And I reflect on this sometimes when I'm on like flights. Like I was on 12 hour flight to Brazil fucking off my head and like red wine and champagne and shit, which is what I always do on flights. But I always reflect on this shit because you don't have Internet on the plane or at least I never, I never get on the WI fi or whatever and I just think. And I write notes and shit and I was just like, yeah, fuck. Like there's been some ups and downs, but it's been a pretty mad ride given that I came from like a normal family and shit. Was never given anything.

Yeah.

It's just me.

Yeah.

But I've always been someone that's like just done.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'll literally go to Australia with one day's notice. I've done that before. And that's probably just like, because I'm a loose cunt at times. But I don't know, I think it's better to live that way. At least that's the way I thought. And like I still have like obviously a compass so I can't be doing that all the time. And like. But it's getting that balance right. And I just think a lot of people sadly will probably get to 30, 40, maybe they'll fucking die and then they haven't. And it's not even about. Granted you need money to do certain things. But like just even like, I don't know, starting that, starting recording that album they wanted to do. Yeah. Yeah. Which on that note, I need to start releasing freestyles because I've been saying that for months. But like, yeah, I think a lot of people are shaped by society instead of what they want to do. And it's so freeing when you just fucking start doing what you want to do and being who you are instead of trying to fit a mold.

I can only imagine, like, Fee, like, for this being so new to me, like, because I reflect on it so heavily and it's only been like a year of my life. Pretty much this changed, like, let's say, like, this time, this time last year, I didn't have the car, didn't have, like, anything. Like, I was still living the same. So, like, for me, it's all happened, like, very quickly and it's like, I still reflect, like, and think, like. Like, I didn't think that life could be this crazy, like, this could happen. And it's like, for you, this has been ongoing on it and it's. It's.

Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Since I was, like, magnified. Yeah. Yeah. 20, 21. Yeah. It's always been. I've never. I guess I've never been in the rat race ever.

Yeah.

And I never will.

I love the confidence of it, like, because, like, you know. You know, don't you. You back yourself enough to know.

Yeah. It's not even. A lot of people say that's arrogance, whatever. But, like. No, no, it genuinely comes from. I know I'm good enough because I've spent years building skills. Like, it's just a fact. Like, I just put me in a room in a laptop and I'll build something. Yeah. Like, no matter the circumstances. And it's just experience. Yeah. A lot of bad experiences and hard experiences and network and everything I said before.

Yeah.

I just think, like, if I can't make this next one work, then, like, who can?

Yeah. Yeah.

I honestly think that it's like. I don't know. Yeah. It's just like the. I think about late at night and I think if you still back yourself after taking, like a big L, like I did, then, then, you know it's real.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like that Drake line.

Yeah.

You are who you think about or something.

Yeah. I know.

You know it's real when you are. You think you are, like, you've.

Yeah. It's 100 commitment in it. Like, because it could have been like, in that, like, feet. If a lot. If that happened to a lot of people, they would have definitely just reverted to the 9 to 5 because it would have felt like they can't risk it. That happened again, like. But.

Yeah, I get shivers when I think about it. Yeah.

I just.

I genuinely rather Die. Yeah. Not than have a 9 to 5. I mean, than pursue my potential.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just mean that from the core of my being. And I think if you don't feel that way, like, true entrepreneurship probably isn't for you.

Yeah.

And like, I just know who I am. Yeah. And like, it just. Something's coming. You have to think that way, I think. And yeah, it's kind of deep. It's just the fucking game, isn't it?

Like, it's all part of the game.

Yeah.

That's what keeps exciting.

Keep playing, keep building. Yeah. Fuck. Do you think you've lost friends by like leaving? Because I guess you again, like spent a few years in the corporate world, which I never did, so all my mates have always been entrepreneurs and shit. I guess like my new mates, like, how is that? Do you find people like, resentful towards you?

What?

I guess your Instagram and shit is quite flash. Yeah, mine used to be more like that kind of turn it down a little bit.

So. So, yeah, so.

Or do you think you just naturally to lose friends and make different connections?

Yeah. I'll be like, totally honest with you. Like, when I was at uni, I didn't like, because I got to a point where I was at folks, I'm sure that I didn't have a lot of mates. Like, I was like. I think I had like four close mates and then that probably right now is at three that I only speak. No, I only speak to two of them from uni. So it's like I've got. But so I've got two small mates at a small circle there from uni. And then like high school, I've got two mates from high school still speak to. And then obviously we've got the crep chief lads, but they're in same circle so it doesn't really count. But the. The rest of it, like, I think we've experienced people being like resentful and like we. We hear about the comments and stuff all the time. And it's like I had to learn from those guys. Like, I like, learned from like the crep chief guys that like, you just can't take it on because.

And that.

Because they started to experience it earlier than me.

Yeah.

They then sort of like reassured me through it because as soon as people like, it was even like members of like aftermarket, if they started to find out like they had a nice car, we start to get hate for it. And like, it's sort of like, yeah, like you have to learn how to deal with it. But my mates, in terms of. My close, close mates, are fully supportive. Like the ones that I've kept from high school and uni, they, like, love it and they thrive off it. And that's why they're going to do well as well.

Yeah.

Because they don't see that jealousy. It's not like that. And that's when, like, I feel like if you've got that mindset of, like, you can celebrate other people's successes and you're not going to get envious to a degree where you're going to start being negative about them. That is when you know you're on the right path as well. Like, as soon as you start, like, being envious and hating on someone for being successful, that's when you know that, like, for me, I think that is when you're spinning your wheels and you're not progressing yourself and you're just hating on the fact that you're watching someone progress and you know that you're essentially not, and then you're stuck.

Agreed. What do you think the hardest thing's been? Going from, like, stability to. Well, not stability, but I guess, like, more normal job to balls deep into entrepreneurialism.

It's probably what we touched on before. It's. It's more so the utilizing my time as effectively as I could be. Like, that's the big one that I need to learn how to do. I feel like at the start, when I launched Aftermarket, I was so, like, in that slam six weeks when I started it, I was working on it around the clock with, like. Like, I was working with a guy from, like, the US from a website. There's a guy from Singapore for, like, some of our software development. So I was up, like, all the time.

Yeah.

And I loved that. But then once it all got set up, once all the staff got put in, and then it starts taking over and it's like, it's smooth sailing now. Like, it's like. So then now I need to know how to utilize my time to. To keep it growing now that. So is that hard for me to explain? Because I don't. I. Yeah, I struggle with it. I struggle, but I guess that's what I'm gonna have to learn with time.

Yeah. What's your vision for the next, like, five years? I guess, personally, I'm with the business. Do you think that far ahead?

I. I think in our industry, it's quite hard to think that far ahead because, let's say, stuff like the PS5s, they came up out of nowhere and Everyone had to adapt. Like, but for us, there's always going to be another wave. So it's like, what's the next hype? What's the next product gonna be? So we've gotta remain, like, adaptable to that, but in terms of, like, actual milestones of the company. Like, I want to take aftermarket to. Like, I'd be happy with aftermarket being a point of, like, around about 3,000. 3,000 members, I'd be happy with. Right now, we're sitting about 1200. The peak we've been at is 1400. If we could take it to that, we'd be sweet. And then I want to sell more companies. Like, I want to get into something, so I'd love to get in something that isn't software as a service. Like, I want to get something that, like, I. I was, like, really passionate about the food industry. Like, I wouldn't mind having a double with, like, a restaurant or something like that. Yeah. Like, it's like, something that is a little bit more predictable because we've always, like, I feel like you firing ads out and you don't really know if someone's gonna buy at your ad and sign up. But, like, if you've got a restaurant and you know, it's good, you know, people come through the door.

Yeah, it's Evergreen.

Yeah. If it's good, it's like, it's. I feel like it's. Yeah. Like, I want something that is a little bit more stable and like. Like, I tried going into property. The first one I bought, like, it fell through recently, but it's like, for me now, it's not even worth putting money into property for me right now. Like, I agree because, like, focus on a business.

Yeah.

And it's like. So, like, I put. So I put, like, 50, I think it was 15 grand deposit down on this flat. And at the same time, I bought and then. Well, I bought an NFT. $30,000. That NFT right now is worth, like, $80,000. And the 15,000. But what's that worth? It's worth the exact same. Like, if I bought the property, it would be worth, like, what? Like, pretty much exactly same. Like, it's sort of like, there's better. There's better ways I can utilize my money right now and, like, sort of expand what I'm doing. Because I want to, like. Like I said, like, I want to get to a point where, like, my kids don't have to work. Like, well, no, I want them to work, but, like, I want to be like, if I. I want to feel comfortable. It was like, if I wanted to provide for you, like, you wouldn't have to work if you didn't need to. And then I want that. And then grandkids, like, that's a big one for me. So, yeah, it's. It's sort of just focusing on the companies now. We'll take the NFT group from. We're about 400 members. I'd be happy taking that up to a thousand because we check, like, we charge more on that. Margins are a lot, a lot better on that as well. Sort of. Yeah. And then grow the Amazon business. Like, that's the new one for us. That's the one that's like, for me, like, yeah, like, that's. I need to be careful what I'm gonna say on that. But I want to be like, I think that we can do really well in the Amazon space. Like, the guys we've got on our team right now are excellent. And for me, that's the one that is going to potentially future proof us going forward.

Yeah. So, all right, I guess to wrap things up, because I've got fucking go for dinner in, like, 45 minutes. Before I done our own house, to be fair, I always asked the same question. We've probably gone forever. If you give three bits of advice to yourself, I guess I usually say when you started the business, but maybe for you, probably like seven years ago, when you got into reselling and just started being interested in.

Yeah.

What would you say? Three pieces, three bits of advice to yourself at whatever age you were then. Okay, so like just about life as well. Just broadly business, like, anything.

So I think the first one would 100 be, like, back myself more, like, and actually have that belief that, like, if I've got that little idea in my head, if that spark goes off, like, pursue it and see where it goes. Like, explore your curiosity. Like, if you've got a passion, then there's no point. Like, we'll go back to the. It's not dress rehearsal. Like, if you've got a passion, why not explore it, like, and see what you can make out of it? Because you only, like, you only get one life. So do you want to do it doing a job that you're not going to enjoy, or do you want to try and live the best life you possibly can? And that's. You're probably going to live that best life if you're pursuing your passion. I think secondly, it would be learn to switch off more and sort of, like, learn how to enjoy myself. A little bit more because it's. For me, I'm doing that now. But it's took years and years and years. Like, like I said I was in a relationship for six years when I was at uni.

Didn't even cover that.

Yeah.

Tried not to.

When I was at uni, like, I didn't. I literally didn't go out because I was studies and getting a first. Like, it's like, now I've learned that to really appreciate, like, life and what we're doing, you've got to wind down and relax a bit.

That's too.

Yeah, Yeah. I think number three, I think it's just got to be that. I think. I don't know if it relates too much to my first one, but it's literally. And it's like something that, like, I know I. I don't know if the correct chief lads, if you ask them this, but they might have said it, but it's literally, like, literally just do it. Like, I think they said that. Yeah. Like, you've got to, like, if. And like, if you. If you've, like, got something that you're interested in, like, as long as you don't, like, give up with it, like, you can't. You literally can't fail. Like, for me, I was, like, devastated on the first day of my business when I got one sign up. I was like, I've. I've lost here. But if you keep, like, if you keep going, like, you're only going to come out on top and that. That's it. Like, so it's. If you never risk. If you never, like, they're saying something like, if you never risk losing, you can never actually win in life. Like, if you stay at, like, risk is no risk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Facts.

If you do not risk the loss, you cannot be a winner. Like, and that's like a big one. And I'll say that I've got a better third one. It would have been to, like, is another saying. It's like, when it feels, like, scary to jump, that's when you jump in. Like, for me, with my job, like, that's when I, like, I should have took the leap a little bit earlier, I think, and trusted myself and backed myself to do it. That's a sick.

All right, on that note, we'll wrap it up. That's been an interesting one. I hope it was interesting to watch. I think. Yeah, it's probably therapeutic for you to speak about that.

100.

Yeah. Pods every week, as usual, been very, very consistent with this. If you're enjoying the pod. Subscribe, leave a comment, tell a friend all that good shit. We are growing pretty consistently which is nice. Might try and up the production quality the next few episodes. I'm gonna hire someone to do this shit. I've decided. But yeah. Cheers for watching. Hope you enjoyed. See you in the next episode. Pe. Sam.