Serial Entrepreneur on Inventing, Brand & Philanthropy - Saif Siddiqui | Midnight Podcast Episode 18

Right, fellas, back with episode 18 of the Midnight Pod. You'll notice we're in a different location for once. We're actually in Dubai. Like we're taking this shit global. This is not the main reason I'm here, but I thought while I'm here, getting some sun, meeting new people, we're trying to get a few pods in and I guess we have Sef Sadiqi. That's the correct way to say your name. Right, got it. Right. This is a fucking freestyle episode, I guess. Like all our episodes. To be honest, I literally met this guy once, like maybe three, four weeks ago on top of Soho House, which I'm still trying to get a fucking membership of, by the way. If anyone's gonna help, please shoot me a dm. And then a mate was telling me, like, your background and like, some of the stuff you've done.

Josh.

Shout out Josh. Josh for sure. And Arcellan, by the way, who's kind of letting us use his sick flat for this podcast. I literally arrived feeling like shit and I still got a bit of a blocked nose. Forgot to bring a bottle of wine as a thank you.

And now we're drinking his Macallan.

Now we're drinking his Macallan.

Yeah.

Is that what you said? Macallan. Fucking whiskey. And I'm not a whiskey drinker, but yeah, try and make it up for him. But yeah, shout out to those guys. So I guess, yeah, first question. As usual, it's not even really a question, but just like, in this case, I feel like it's more relevant because I've literally got tiny bits of your. What you do and like your background and shit, but I've not fucking researched and. Amazing. I love that horse's mouth.

That's great.

So, yeah, just tell me what you do. Here you are. We can dive into a lot of weird shit.

Alright, cool. So my name is Seth, born and raised in Holland. I've been in London for the last 15 years. Fifteen years now, pretty much like half of my life. And the last, like five, six years. I've also been spending a lot of time in New York and Los Angeles, where essentially, because I started a fashion brand back in. Was it 2016? Yeah, 2016. In the summer, I launched a fashion brand and that sort of went viral on the Internet. And yeah, ever since I've just been traveling the world and that's why I'm in Dubai right now. I'm opening a little store in the Mall of Emirates. It's super exciting. I've never been To Dubai. Really? So this is quite a. Oh, really? Yeah, there's like a very rapid stereotype.

Here and think this guy goes to Dubai all the time.

I have never been to Dubai before.

Oh, really? This is the first time.

This is the first time.

Fuck.

And she just came out with, like, no intention and, like, just figure it out. Yeah, these people from the Mall of Emirates reached out and. Yeah, I have no idea how long I'm going to be here for. I'm like, freestyling the whole thing. Yeah, it's super fun. Yeah. So essentially, yeah, I have a fashion brand, and then I work in the solar industry as well. I have a big aim to try and help as many people as we as I can with, like, solar panels and just, you know, helping this thing called energy poverty, which I'm pretty big on. And. Yeah, and then I have a little consulting agency and a marketing agency and a few things. Manager, a few other things. It's always. It's always a hard question, really, when someone asked me, what do you do? Because I'm like, I'm doing fingering multiple pies. Yeah, yeah.

So the fashion brand, that's the. Am I right? That. That's the scarves for celebrities to stop Paparazzi.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's fucking interesting and weird and crazy at the same time. Yeah, yeah, Tell me about that. Where did that come from?

So I thought it would be cool to just ruin pictures, like, because at some point, everyone was taking pictures of everything, food and people. And we would go to, like, clubs or restaurants, and there would be random people, like, Snapchatting and taking pictures, and then it would be posted the next day online without anyone's consent. And I don't know if you remember, like, a couple of years ago when Facebook had this, like, moment where people that were going for, like, job interviews and, like, tagged pictures was, like, a thing.

Yeah, yeah.

And essentially it was around that time when I realized I was like, all right, everyone always wants a perfect picture, but I'm sure there's going to be people that don't want pictures of them taken. And. Yeah, so that was the main idea. Like, I'm sort of an introvert as well, so I'm not always like, I don't know. I find it weird when people just take pictures that I don't know, to be in pictures, essentially.

And then.

Because then celebrities jumped on top of it because obviously they're very prone to. Well, the privacy is a big thing to them. Just because paparazzi and you know, fans and people just like attack them all the time. So they really know what they have privacy concerns, essentially. And you know that that moves into like safety and security and all that fun stuff.

Yeah.

So. So, yeah, then celebrities jumped on it and then it went viral in 2016 and ever since that, it's not just scarce. We also do, like fashion, like clothes. I do interior design, pillowcases, curtains. I can wrap cars.

And is it all like anti picture spec?

Yeah.

This, this first whole premise of the brand, right?

No.

Or is it not?

No, this is, this is like the intro to what I'm trying to do. Right. So this is just a stepping stone to all the other tech products that I wanna, I wanna launch, essentially. I have like a whole list of products that I've always wanted to.

To launch under the same brand.

Under the same brand. Yeah. And this, this anti paparazzi thing essentially is sort of like I could, you could call it like the first collection or the first drop.

Yeah.

And then from here I want to go into something completely different, under the same brand, but not fashion related. So I just really want to take it into like the tech world and that kind of thing.

So it's not a clothing brand?

It's not a clothing brand.

That's interesting.

Yeah, it's just the first.

By the way, what's it called?

It's called Issue.

Yeah, I did have a look. I'm just shooting names.

Yeah. Ishu. And then the Instagram thing is what's the issue? So some people get confused. They're like, oh, is that the brand's name? I'm like, no, it's just Issue. It was just like some.

Yeah, you have to get the username somehow.

Yeah. Weird name around it.

It wasn't started aimed at celebrities, just. Just random people like you or I that would want to absolutely fucking not be in pictures.

Yeah, you're the same. I can vibe that you're the same kind of person that you find it a bit weird if people were just randomly taking pictures of you.

That's probably because I always look fucking shit in pictures. Like I'll go out for a night out with the boys and there'll be one picture I get sent and it's me and my eyes shut or smiling and my teeth just look like I need to go to like the Middle east and get them sorted. Yeah, that's interesting. And then you mentioned like Jay Z and shit off camera before, which I don't want to be that guy that fucking dies. What's the crack? Because, like, Josh was telling me you have all these, like, celebrity contacts and whatever. Is that. Is that a result of the brand.

Or is that, like, that is a result of the brand, essentially? Yeah, yeah. So the brand, when I came up with it, was because I'm an entrepreneur. I like having different businesses and doing a bunch of different things. And I know the power of celebrities, you know, So I get to work with them on so many different fronts, not just on the brand, but, you know, helping them get brand deals. And I help startups and young CEOs reach people that they could never essentially reach or even pay for. So, you know, I'm in a fun position now where I get to, like, essentially just help people, which is my main aim of all the businesses that we. That we. That we launch, you know.

Yeah. And going back then, because I feel like we've missed a lot of stuff, whether that's intentional or not. You say you started out in 2016?

Yeah, yeah.

And you're how old now?

I'm 34.

All right, cool.

I was 28 at the time. Yeah.

What were you doing before that? I guess, like, primarily in your 20s kind of career time, as far as most people.

So there was. There was a long period. So I worked at William Morrison IMG for 5 years in Chiswick, in Richmond area. And IMG is International Management Group, which essentially they own part of Wimbledon, or they own Wimbledon. Wembley Stadium is this.

IMG is in, like, world. They're models.

So that's a department. So that's a department within the IMG conglomerate.

Yeah.

So you have OMG Models, you have IMG Sports, you have IMG Media, you have IMG Entertainment. They own all of the rights to, for example, all of Premier League. So all of the footage is owned by one company. And then if another company or a brand wants to use the footage, they have to buy it from IMG Archive. Then there's IMG Sponsorship, which does Wimbledon and Wembley. And so I work with them for, like, five, six years in London. And from there I just essentially, I just worked there to understand what corporate life is like. Yeah. Because I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur and start my own business. And it was sort of just like a stepping stone of, like, figuring it out what the industry means from a agency point of view. So I managed a couple of football clubs, a couple of football players. I still do that on the side. Like, when a football player needs, like, a Nike deal or an Adidas deal or something, I'll hook them up. So I did that for a Couple of years. I was always interested in, like, managing and consulting different brands and organizations and what I did as well. Ever Since I was 14, I just started creating different patents and products, like designing new things and inventing products, essentially. And a couple. There was a couple of good hits in there. 99% of them failed. Like, the products that I thought would be quite cool. So I watched Honey I Shrunk the Kids way too many times.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That's basically. Yeah. So inventing stuff and connecting the dots for people. That's. That's what I've always done.

Yeah. Fuck this. This already seems like a fucking. We could go down so many angles. Yeah, that's a lot of things I'm like.

I just never know which direction it could go, you know? So.

Yeah. Cool. It's a fucking very colorful career so far, it sounds like. So inventing stuff, like, what was some stuff that actually worked and went well and what was the context?

Yeah, the scarf is one. Then me and my family, we had a patent or we have a patent, which is any woven fabric around any sports ball, which essentially means that Nike Adidas cannot make a football or a basketball out of cotton, denim, any woven fabric. So what we did was we created a football made out of raw denim. And then in Holland, we have a street football culture. So you would manually, like, you would play with them, play with the ball on the streets. And so you would manually stonewash this football so it get, like, rips and cuts and tears, sort of like how we buy jeans now. So it adds, like, this whole dimension of. Of a football or a basketball or a tennis ball. So we still own the patent. So that's one of the products that did really well. We started licensing that out to a bunch of different people, brands. I mean, sorry. Then I have a couple of inventions in the solar space as well. And it's just. Just waiting for tech or for the market to catch up at some point, and then it just works. So there's a lot of things parked essentially for when the time is right, and then we just launch it.

Yeah. I'm gonna struggle to name this podcast on YouTube. There's so many fucking topics.

Yo, fellas, Quick one first bit of promo for the pod. You may or may not have heard, I released a fucking ecom course a few months ago. Basically spent like six months making it because I was in between businesses, as you probably know. If you follow my shit, I must say, 12 hours long. It's fucking quality content. I was gonna drop it at like 1500 quid with some bullshit guru y webinar and all that rubbish. But as you know, it's not my main thing. I'm working on a new brand right now. Very, very fucking much in the trenches. Which is why I think it's actually a else out there because it's built on real experience of my brands in the past and my current one. I think it's super, super valuable. If you're interested in ecom, you're already in E Comm and you wanted to get into E comm. 0 to 1 starting a brand from scratch, then definitely worth investing in. Link is in the bio of this video or podcast. Spotify, Apple Music, wherever the fuck you're listening or watching and enjoy the rest of the pod.

So yeah, coming on to the, the solar energy thing you mentioned. What's the deal with that? How did that start? What is that? Okay, where is that going?

So I lived in India for five years and like normally we could sit in a place like this and then all of a sudden like the electricity would like switch off.

Yeah.

Like total, like regional, like blackouts.

Yeah.

And so I was there from like a young age and I saw this happening. Like I said, I was there for five, six years. And you know, the end, like the poverty levels in India and other places like that are. It's. It's not, it's not a good look, you know. So I've. I've always been sort of keen on trying to help as many people as we can. And then I real. I found out the numbers that there's 1.2 billion people that suffer from energy poverty where they don't have as much.

But yeah, it makes sense.

Energy poverty, it's crazy. It's literally 1/7 of the planet doesn't have a light bulb at home or in their huts or whatever.

Yeah.

Which is a lot of people, right?

Yeah. Fuck.

And we're sitting in like Dubai and we complain if our wi fi doesn't work or, you know.

Very true.

I feel, feel very spoiled in that sense. And being in the year that we're in and like the technology evolvements, I'm like, we should be able to like work together somehow to figure out this little thing of giving them a light bulb. And then who knows what kids can do? Like they can do their homework at night and maybe that one kid who was doing their homework all of a sudden cures Covid.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? But just by giving them a simple light bulb. And it was also inspired by Akon, the music artist like he started like donating light bulbs to. I think he's reached like 400 million people now, which is a big number, you know.

Yeah.

But there's still a billion people left. So I'm like, if I can just contribute to that a little bit, then at least I've done my job by the time I pass away or something, you know, so just try and get light bulbs out there. Solar technology is evolving. It's getting better. The whole world's talking about it. The only problem right now is batteries. But I think that's slowly gonna, gonna improve over the next couple years. And it's just a very interesting space because solar energy, essentially a lot of people jumped on it, but they jumped on it too soon. Yeah. So when people started investing into solar, solar panels were really expensive. And over time, obviously you want to make the product a lot cheaper, so the prices dropped. So all the people that were really into it lost a lot of money. So they kind of hate it at the moment. So they're not a big fan of it.

Yeah.

However, like, technology is getting better, so I feel like slowly the world will get there. There's a lot of good solar initiatives going on and you know.

So is it a charity then or are you trying to build technology that makes light easier to access these people via solar?

Yeah, I'm, it's. I don't even know what to call it, to be really honest. I don't.

It's a venture of some sort.

It's a passion project. I'm not saying it's a non profit. I'm not saying it's a charity. I'm not saying it's a business. It's just something that is humane and it's something important for, for us to do. Like, it just makes so much sense.

Yeah.

You know, so yeah, that's, that's my like biggest passion. So all these other things that I do, like this issue brand and the scarf and the clothes and the celebrities, essentially, they're all stepping stones to try and get, raise awareness for it at least. That's at least the least I can do. So whenever I do interviews, I'd like, I'd love to talk about that way more than I do talking about a Jay Z or Kevin Hart or like all these celebrities and stuff because, you know, it's, I mean, it makes a good clickbait thing. I get it, you know, but there's much more to it, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, solar to me, I'm very passionate about it and I don't know exactly how I'm gonna do it. Like one of my life goals is to just, just bring solar panels to the world. That's it.

So, yeah, mad, that's a good goal, I guess.

Yeah.

So where is that now then, like in terms of impact that's had so far? Or like what, like the next step is.

Yeah.

Or is this still like early stages?

No, we've actually donated quite a lot. Like I've built, I've helped, I've provided solar panels to schools in, like in refugee areas. I've donated about 100,000 lanterns to different places. I've donated, like, we've, we've created a couple of cool solar panel products. So where I'm with it now is I'm creating consumer facing solar panel products.

Yeah.

Because right now, how I look at it is solar panels look very industrial, they're very confusing. You don't really know what it's, it's not sexy. So I'm building a brand around solar panels essentially to make it a bit more cool, make it a bit more sexy, make it a bit more clean.

Yeah.

Change the packaging, change the description of it, the usage of it, all of that fun stuff. So one of the main products that I'm launching next year is a solar powered basketball hoop, which essentially is basketball hoops that you see outside.

Yeah.

I've taken out the backboard and put a solar panel in there and then there's a light hanging over it and there's a speaker inside and a charger at the bottom of the hoop so that kids can play at night.

And it's all good idea, right?

Yeah.

Such a simple concept. But I guess especially in like third world countries, that would be mad.

Exactly.

Because they have light and they can play sport.

Yeah. So that's the next.

Kobe Bryant's coming out of that. Potentially.

Potentially, you know.

Yeah.

And to me, like, I had this like random idea one day, I'm like, oh, solar powered basketball hoops. And then I'm thinking, oh, I'm sure someone's tried it. Or, you know, I'm sure it exists. And then I googled it and there's not a single picture that I found online or any indication of it. Which then blows my mind. I'm like, if you look at America, how big that country is, how many entrepreneurs there are, how many tech entrepreneurs there are, how big the sport is over there. I'm like, no one's ever put one on one together and put a solar panel in the backboard, which is already the size of a solar panel. And these things are already outside like.

It just, just to be asked. Maybe they can't make enough money from it or something. I don't know. Maybe the motor is not right in, in the western world. Yeah. For most things probably. How are you funding this sort of then?

All out of my own pocket. Yeah, it's all out of my own pocket. Like I'm, I'm very like if I want to do something, I believe in it myself and I just do it all from my own, at my own speed as well.

Yeah.

So it's not like I don't have Elon Musk money. So I can't like you know, just anyone.

I guess no one technically is what it's.

Yeah, no, it's, it's all passion really. And I figure it out as I go along with everything and I think like I come up like this issue brand for example. We don't. I mean it's advertised on the website a little bit, but we donate with every single sale that we make. So even if I sell a scarf to like a fancy person out of that, you know, there's a good profit margin on there.

Yeah.

So I get to, it's sort of redirect the budget to try and fund the solar business. So that's how I currently do it. Yeah. So yeah. Which is why the fashion thing is important for me. That's why I'm opening Mall of Emirates store. And like all these pop ups that I'm doing around the world is to essentially just fund all of these solar projects of mine.

So that's like the North Star. Everything else is just either like fun or leads towards that.

Yeah, yeah.

That's cool. Do you think, was there a point. Well, two part question. Do you think then that you get more pleasure, satisfaction, fulfillment, whatever from the pursuit of that rather than making money then 1000%. And was there a point, a significant point when you realized that had that switch?

That's interesting. Yes.

Because I feel like I've had similar things. Yeah.

I think a lot of people, not.

Quite the same, but yeah. I don't know, maybe like guys growing up, when they get to a certain.

Point, you know what it was? It was Shopify, you know, like the, the noise that you get on your phone. Cha Ching.

Yeah.

When you make a purchase.

Yeah.

So when I launched the brand, I used to turn it on like it.

Was loud, you know, people have that on, you know. Yeah.

It's like Cha Ching. And like it was so such a cool feeling to know.

Oh.

So I just made a Sale or whatever. You know that feeling that you get, like, it's just a hit of something. And after a while, I sort of started losing the love for that sound. And I was like. And then I started, like, digging deeper. I'm like, why is that? Like, why am I not as excited as I used to be? Or do I not get that hit anymore? And then I realized, because it was all related. It's a cha Ching sound. It's money related.

Yeah.

And then I went, okay. I started, like, I started digging deep, and all of a sudden I went, okay, wait a minute. What if I donate with every single cha Ching a solar light to a hut or a family of four or five people in a hut, Then I've just helped a family with literally energy. Like, I've just given them light.

Yeah.

So now I associated. I started associating that sound with helping a family. And I've had that now for five years. And I. I've fallen in love not with the sound, but with the idea of with every single cell I'm helping a family. I'm not with every single. It's not about the money anymore. It's about helping as many people as you can. Yeah. And to be really honest, I feel like the business has only done better ever since. Money. Money has never been like the aim for anything. Money is like a result of the work, but it's not the target. It's not the goal. The target is to do something that you're passionate about that you love, and then money will come with it. The same way that, you know, an actor doesn't become an actor to become famous. It's just a result of the job. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So do you associate the brand from a market perspective with that cause now or do you mean just.

I don't.

Indirectly, you just donate.

Yeah.

I don't, like, put it on the fucking checkout page and.

No, no, no, no, no.

Probably should. To be fair.

A lot of people say that to me, but I feel like I don't want to. I don't want people to. It's just a passion thing for me.

Yeah.

You know, and I get. I get it. Like, a lot of people said it, like, especially in the E Commerce space. Or like, you know, you don't advertise it, you don't say it, you don't tell anyone. Like, you just do it. But that's. I'm like, but that's because I want to do it, you know, I don't want people to. Yeah. Just to Me, it's just. I don't know, maybe you're right if you're rugged.

Well, yeah, I mean, I guess from Brandon perspective. But if that's not the goal, then. Yeah, I get that. I feel like. Yeah, well, like, I mean, I feel like everyone has to go through a period of. In like, entrepreneurship, particularly of like, maybe like chasing money and putting it on a pedestal and then getting a taste of it, you know, I don't know if you buy, like, in my own experience. Went through a period of. Started making money like pretty young when I was like 22. And then like recently, like, fucking lost loads of money, which changed my, My perspective, but we'll get onto that.

Yeah, but you gotta, you gotta lose it to appreciate it. Yeah, I think that's a big.

But I went through a phase of like, buying loads of flash cars and had all my dream cars and shit. And I still think that's sick. Like, and I don't, I don't have a car at all right now, but. And I will in the future again for sure. But you like, a realized that.

The.

Initial hit from like, I don't know, I bought a fucking Ferrari last year. And then genuinely after like two months, it was, ah, this is just impractical as fuck. I mean, especially in London. But yeah, you lose that. Anything that's material. I think I wrote like a note down in my phone when I was having like a fucking existential crisis while driving. I was like, wait a minute, stop. And it was like, anything that's effectively not living or has a living impact is kind of so fleeting. Which is like, obvious and everyone says it, but yeah, I don't know. I think you have to go through it yourself to realize because, you know, anyone else that maybe not experienced that or has maybe never had any taste of like, making a bit of money, but like, oh, you, you know, it's. That's my goal. Like, and do you know what I mean? And then you get.

Don't get me wrong because I mean, we do remember that time before when, you know, money does help with, you know, working on your projects or scaling your business or, you know, it does help with a lot of things, but it shouldn't be the goal or like, because it's materialistic. Like when. Especially when you do materialistic things.

Yeah.

Buying fancy cars.

I guess that's what I mean. Like, I realized that via materialistic things, but at the same time then I fucking had the business issue that everyone that watches this podcast knows about lost like fucking nearly all my Fucking money, like. And. Well, not all of it, but, like, lost that. Lost that, like, cash flow day today because the business went fucks. And I guess that gave me a newfound respect for money, which is a good thing. I think it's going forward until I think everyone thinks they have that. But. And then. But I was probably always a bit. Looking back a bit. A bit stupid. Like, I didn't plan for, like, a rainy day. Probably, like.

Yeah.

But when she was going. Well, I.

It's also a learning curve. It's also a learning curve because I've been through the same. Where I feel like I've blown money or I didn't treat it the way that I would treat money now or whatever, but I'm happy that it happened back then and not later in my life.

Yeah.

So I look at it as a lesson. I'm like, I'm happy that I lost that money. I'm happy that I got punched in the face because now I know how to duck. Now I know what to do.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So you appreciate things differently now. And I think. I think it's a valuable thing. And it happens to a lot of people. I almost wanted to say to everyone, I don't know if that's true, but, yeah, to a lot of people, you make money and then you lose it.

As fast as you make it properly.

And then you make it properly.

But that's how I feel. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like, up, down, but the next time up, it's gonna be consistent and building foundations. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's been, like, an element of that that I've, like, learned in the past year. But like, even, like, I've got a little sausage dog.

Yeah.

And it cost me, like, four and a half grand. Like, pedigree dog. Obviously, it's not about the money, but.

Like, for a dog.

Yeah, for a dog, it's a lot. But, like. And I honestly, like, I've, like, gradually come to like him more. I thought he was annoying when I first got him. It's off a whim and he was everywhere. But he gives me more, like, joy than a sick watch or, like, car does. And obviously I still think those things are sick, by the way. There's nothing wrong with that. And I still want a Patek Nautilus and rose gold, but 100%, I know that I'm. By the way, for sure. That's the great thing about watches.

Yeah. But it's not a car.

Yeah. Or like, a sick car, which will fucking depreciate But. And they are so sick. But like this little dog every day is happy to see me, like no matter what. Fuck, let me take my slack off. But yeah. Yeah, it's just like a life lesson, I guess. A lot, a lot of entrepreneurs, I think. Yeah. Like you said, pretty much every entrepreneur will fucking go through.

Yeah, it's a lesson. I think it's part of it.

And then it becomes more about like the fucking process or like what you're trying to achieve.

Yeah.

Whether that's solar panels making people feel good in a like outfit or anything.

Yeah.

You can attach more, you can attach value to anything. Like obviously you need money to make it happen, but yeah. You just look at things a different way.

Absolutely.

That's kind of my point.

Yeah.

So absolutely. I feel like everyone goes through that.

How old are you now?

26.

26. Right.

I feel like I can get a. I'm so.

I know. I'm so impressed with these you and you know, a lot of people around me here, I'm like, everyone's like 24. Like he's 24. Look, look at, look at this place.

Yeah. Well that's what I look at him and think he's two years younger.

I'm 34. I'm 10 years older than him. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I.

There's always some younger guy with more money.

But the fact that you're 26 and you're already aware, I'm like. Cuz I learned these lessons when I was like 30. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I'm like. And I thought I was there early when I was 28 with the scarfs, like with that launch, I thought I was like doing. I mean I did all of the other like inventions and like rng, all that stuff. But that was like my first like big, big hitter, you know?

Yeah.

I was like, oh, I was 28. And I felt like I was pretty young at the time. And now like as I'm like meeting more people, like holy shit. Like you guys are like 22 and like are so well aware of your surroundings and your thinking and your mindset and like your understanding of life and potential and you know, these lessons that you've already learned. I'm like, you guys have such an exciting. I mean I'm saying as if I'm like 60 right now, but you know what I mean? I'm like, you're in the twenties. Like you've literally only is in the UK as well, like after eight. No, sixteen or something. Seventeen when you Drive a car. Like you get your seventeen. Like you've literally just had a couple of years of having your license and you're already talking about changing the world and your mindset. And I'm. I'm super impressed with that. That's super cool.

Well, yeah, I suppose, like the thing I struggle with on the flip side, that is a lot of my friends are actually younger than me and doing way better than me. So for example, Iman that came on the podcast just using one example, which you wouldn't mind me saying, he's fucking 21. And I look at him and think, Jesus Christ, the guy's wiser, richer and better looking than me.

I'm dead. That's hilarious.

But I mean there's always.

Yeah, there's always got to be somewhere.

There's always some.

There's always somewhere.

There's always something where younger, taller, faster, whatever.

There's always a faster, bigger dick. Whatever it is, there's always whatever. But that's not what it's about, you know? But yeah, no, but it's super impressive though. I think, I don't think that was a thing 20 years ago that like 20 year olds were like doing life like world changing stuff or like having that mindset or anything. I don't think that was the case. Might be wrong.

But yeah, I agree. To be fair, I reckon I've met.

A 19 year old that I feel like was way wiser than I would like.

Yeah.

That this person was like teaching me about life. I'm like, you're 19?

Yeah.

Like you've literally. You're 19. Like what? And I'm super much respect for this person. She's a genius.

I was like, yeah, some people just have some weird like, like an old soul. Yeah, there's something going on there.

Amazing. Amazing to watch.

It's definitely like beyond biology in some people. Yeah, it's like some spirit shit.

Absolutely. It's like. And also for sure, it's like they've lived like five lives. Lives for, for that person to be now 19 in this world. Yeah, those are the people that are gonna like change the world. And like that's the future of everything, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I mean I think we can go down so many paths to that, but I think social media is like probably had like a net negative effect on 99% of people. But on 1% of people it's probably given them and like it has to everyone, but most people just haven't used it properly and 1% of people have used it to like Learn from people on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. And then built. Yeah, like, built this world awareness and like life skills and. And like business skills. Super young, which probably wasn't possible 20 years ago.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a very good point. Yeah. It's just mad the world has changed a lot.

Yeah.

I'm just. I'm just curious to see where it's going to go. And that's the funny part about everything. Like, about the future, you never know. Like, we don't know what the world's going to be like in five years from now. Like, we have zero idea.

Yeah, well, I really hope it's not everyone wearing a fucking VR headset, plugged into these things, looking like 20 stone jelly monsters. Which is, I think, where this Metamask thing is. Metamask. Fucking meta. Meta universe, whatever it's called. Metaverse is going, yeah, it's kind of scary.

It is scary, but it's also, It's. It's a new. It's a new world. Like, it's a whole. It's like the Internet 3 rebranding itself. The one thing that we were talking about yesterday, actually that I thought was quite funny is the fact that Metaverse, everyone's on top of this thing right now, right? Like, every single meeting I'm having in Dubai, every single second chat is metaverse and NFTs and bloody, bloody blah. And the funny part about it is I feel like everyone's forgotten who's behind Metaverse.

Yeah.

Right? So Zuckerberg and all of the Facebook data protection, privacy about. Everyone hated Facebook at some point, right? Going, this guy is messing us about, blah, blah, blah. And then he announces this metaverse, and everyone's like, all right, cool, let's all jump on top of this.

Jump into Zuckerberg's castle.

Yeah. He's literally going to be the president of the world of the Metaverse. And we're all fine with it. We're all just ignoring it because we've all got our own plans or ideas of what it could be, what it is, etc. Etc. So we forget about the Facebook element of it. You know, don't get me wrong, I. I have an. I've had an Oculus for months. Like, I super love that thing. I'm a big golfer, so sometimes I brought it with me to Dubai. I'm like in my room. I'm like, playing golf and stuff, going to topgolf and mini golf. It's amazing. I super love it. But, yeah, I'm quite interested to see where it goes. There's a lot of potential around it.

Yeah. It's fucking weird bringing it back to you then for a second. Oh yeah, the third pillar. And this is the way I think about it is you mentioned an agency that you're involved with. Yeah. What's a lot about the marketing agency? Yeah, marketing agency. Where does that fit into your, your day to day, your past, your present, your future?

It's, it's again, it's a, it's a very like passion project. So I left IMG William Morris to create the marketing agency.

Yeah.

Because I was making a corporate shitloads of money and I was like, I can just do this for myself. I'm Dutch, I live in London. There's a lot of Dutch players that come through the Premier League. I know most of these people. I can help them with brand deals and support them, help them. And then I just wanted to expand it and then it went into like actors, Hollywood musicians, screenwriters, everything basically. And I created like a management agency. So we manage like artists and we just help them with brand deals, branding.

Profile and press and so just clarify your. In your corporate job at img you were involved in talent management and sponsorships? Yeah, yeah.

So I essentially just took that idea and modernized it a little bit.

So what, what sort of clients? Like obviously footballers and shit. I don't know if you can say any of them. We all NDAs and so on.

Yeah, I mean there's a, there's a, there's a few big names in there, but essentially I just, with the marketing agency, all I do is I just connect the dots for people. So like a celebrity and a brand or let's say you start a watch brand and you want to get involved with a celebrity. Yeah, I don't. It's not. When I say a brand deal, I'm not talking like, oh my God, pay us 100,000 for a post or. Yeah, no, no, I'm talking about like a lifetime relationship building situation where a celebrity and the brand actually grow together and you benefit from each other's like target audience and fan base and you create like an authentic relationship. Not just celebrities. We do it with a lot of like impactful, like Nobel Peace Prize winners. We help them a lot. Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's literally like building relations. So I work with an agency called 128, based out of Canada, Toronto, Shout Out, Dave and Cam, my brothers, who they literally, they've spent most half of their life in Kenya. So any celebrity that's ever been through Kenya to To help with charities and all of that. They're the guys that look after everyone.

Yeah.

And they've mentored me and helped me with relationship with building and understanding the value of helping people and helping the world. So they call, they call themselves an impact agency. One to eight. And they work with Natalie Portman, Selena Gomez, Nick and Joe Jonas, all of the YouTubers, Morgan Freeman to Jennifer Aniston to Nas to everyone. Like, they're amazing. And what their agency actually represents and who we work with closely is we do impact deals. So impact that helps the environment, helps the people, helps education, helps children, helps these good causes. And then yeah, it's, it's all about good vibes, essentially. And that's what my marketing agency does. It's about, you know, if I feel somewhat. It's not about the money, it's not about fees or whatever. It's like if you have a good cause and a good idea and we like you and you like us, then we just build a relationship and yeah, that's. That's it.

And how does the business structure of that work then? Is it, is it like just fee based or like percentage based or what is it like broker or is it, is it slightly different?

It depends. It depends on. Sorry, my phone's blowing up right now.

Yeah, let me just make sure the mic. All those Tinder messages.

Yeah. Anyway, no, it's, it's all different. Like all the deals are different. Usually it's just like a commission that we take. We don't do like all this retainer stuff. Or it's just more like commission. If you make money, we make money. If you don't make money, we don't make money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So three main things going on. Like, I feel like one thing that's preached in like social media into, well, just in general to like young entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs is like focusing on one thing. Obviously you're not doing that. Do you think you need to choose one thing to do it? Well, because I guess you're not doing that. But then there's a bunch of other questions off the back of that. But like as a base premise or does it completely depend on who, what where, when?

Yeah, I think, I think the statement diluted focus equals diluted results is a big one.

Yeah. So if you like chase three rabbits catching on the same shit, you, you.

This is a mentor of mine who's on Wall street in New York Stock Exchange. Shout out Fabian, he said you cannot do more than three things well at the same time. And I live by that. So I do three things. So I have to. Solar marketing. Yeah. Anything beyond that, I feel like it just becomes a little bit too much or you're diluted or you are not as focused or it becomes a bit tough. So focusing on one thing, thing is super, super important, but it doesn't mean that you can't do anything else. And if, and I mean, like, I, I think I do quite a lot, but I still believe that I'm very focused. Like I'm still, I, I'm focused and I get the job done and then I move on to the next thing. It's not like I leave it halfway, do the other thing, leave it halfway, do the other thing, leave it halfway, come back to it. Now if I start something, I make sure I finish it, then I jump on to the next thing. I finish it and then I jump on the next thing and then finish it.

Yeah, yeah.

There was another part to the question.

Well, you're thinking, just thinking there's loads of angles now. We answered a lot. Yeah. Because, yeah, I was running like two different econ brands last year at the same time, which I found fucking difficult. But maybe that was harder because they were both in like the same arena and they were like probably competing with each other, other to anything. Well, they weren't, but like, yeah, it's complementary. Like one was jewelry, one was, was, was neon lighting. So like very different, but both complementary, like skill sets in terms of. There's the same strategy for both of them really. Like Instagram, fucking Google, all this. Do you think it takes like life experience to get to the point where you can manage three things? Like, could you be 21 years old, start three businesses at the same time?

I mean, I don't know everything, but I would say, yeah, why not? Why not?

That's what I'm saying.

Like these 19 year olds, 20 year olds are geniuses. Yeah, like they're geniuses. So I mean, I struggle personally to do four or five things at the same time.

Yeah.

That's why I stick to Fabian's rule, which is like I said, called it Fabian's rule, like, as if you can Google it. It's. My friend called Fabian and he told.

Me about this rule.

Yeah, but yeah, no, I'm sure. Why not? I think anything is possible. That's, that's the beauty of entrepreneurship or humans and like you can literally do it. But if you want to do it well, like you got to have passion for it. Like you got to have like resilience. You gotta be disciplined, you gotta put in the work ethic, you gotta, you know, just not stop. You gotta fight. You gotta go through all of the crazy, the ups and downs. Like, it's not for everyone. Everyone. You're making it harder for yourself if you're doing three things or four things instead of starting one business and just doing that. But like you said, you know, you had an E commerce business and you did two things at the same time. It might have been tough, but, you know, it's doable. You did it. So.

Yeah, because don't take my advice.

Like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just answering your question. I feel like I'm.

No, no, it's good. I guess it's not advice. It's just what. What you think. And that's the whole point of this. Like, Skip, it was different. Different opinions because now, like, I'm very conscious with ecom, so I'm starting this fucking mushroom psychedelic wellness style.

Congrats. Congratulations on that. By the way. I'm Dutch, so I fully get.

Yeah, well, I spoke to you about it on that rooftop fucking, like, elevator pitch back like a few weeks ago. Yeah. So we've raised a bunch of. Well, raised the first bit of funding for that now because it's the first time I've gone into the fundraising world, which is a fucking. Yeah. Job in itself.

But. Oh, my God, it's terrible.

Yeah.

I mean, a terrible place.

I'm completely winging it. But I think there's probably an element that's good to that because I don't have any corporate training. I just, like, even putting a deck together was just, like, probably so anti corporate that it worked because it just is what it is. And this is. This is me and et cetera. But because now I'm very conscious of try not to do two econ brands at the same time. So I have a billion ideas all the time. So now I'm doing that and then this podcast. But the interesting thing with that is that I feel like working on this podcast actually makes the business better. Because like I was saying to you before I start recording, like, there's people that I've DMed about coming onto the podcast who have now, like, they're now potential investors and they've helped me with, like, certain parts of the business and because there's like, context on video.

Yeah.

That's on the Internet, fucking everyone. I. E. The podcast, which they then listen to. There's like that trust there because they can go back and listen to stuff. I've spoken about it builds that rapport.

Yeah. It's sort of like open sourcing.

Yeah.

Entire thing, Right?

Yeah. The whole premise of this, like, the first episode was me talking about fucking up my last business. That was basically it. But it's interesting because it's like, if I didn't put that out, some of these people. I'm not speaking to you about coming on to the new business. Probably wouldn't even. Wouldn't even have replied to my message because they can listen to an hour and a half of that, and that's better than any fucking pitch deck, basically. Like, obviously, I need a pitch deck to say what the new thing is, but it builds up that trust.

Absolutely.

And it's interesting. I just think there can be synergies between certain things that actually working on more than one thing, granted, one might be fucking paying you and the others a passion project.

Like.

Like this is. For now. Yeah. I just think. I guess the rule of, like, focusing one thing doesn't necessarily apply in every case or to every person. That's what I'm saying.

No, I think every person is different.

Yeah.

You know, I'm sure that there's people out there that can only do one thing, and they should only do one thing, but it doesn't take away the fact that there's people out there that can do five things. Three things at the same time.

Yeah. I think three sounds like a good limit because obviously, like, I think so.

Like, I've applied it because before this, I was doing a lot of stuff. And then when Fabian told me, he was like, yo, you can only do three things. Well, and I'm talking. This guy is like a legit guy. He's. He's a great guy, like a mentor to me, you know? So when he. When he said that to me, I really took that to heart. And then I started applying it to things when, you know, because I'm a creative entrepreneur, so I want to do a million things and change the world and do this and do that and do this and. And also, like, when I went, actually, that's. That's a good one. Like, when I went viral with the scarf, I started saying yes to everything that was coming in all these emails, all these people. Everyone wants something like collaborations, brand deals, sell this, that. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And in the end, I did fuck all because I said yes to everyone, you know, and then I went, wait, there's. There's something wrong here. And I started applying the three. So right now I can only do three Deals at the same time. And then once I'm done with the three deals then I can talk about the next three deals.

Yeah.

You know, but I'm not going around saying yes to everyone. If someone comes at me now I'm like, okay, give me a couple of weeks. When I'm done with this, then let's try and figure it out.

Your fellas, quick one. You may or may not have noticed there's been a bit of merch, so to speak, in recent episodes.

Episodes.

We've got two different things. We've got some of the retro style OG neon beach posters that designed like four years ago. You may have seen that on my Instagram. And then we've got some of the best selling OG viral style neon signs that basically did start that entire craze about two years ago now. So yeah, if you want to add something to your home, office, your living room, just anywhere sick basically that you want to add that extra thing to and support the channel, then you can check that out. Link is in the bio Midnight Co shop. And yeah, just an esthetic item to complement the process, I suppose. Cheers for watching and enjoy the rest of the pod.

Yeah. Right, quick whiskey break and toilet break I guess as usual on the pod. Now I want to come back to the brand for a minute because I feel like I get fucking hate comments saying half these guests aren't about E Comm, all this bollocks, etc. Etc. So you've been running that for like five years, you said. What is that fully online? Is that like retail as well? What's the deal with that?

It's mainly online. Sorry, let me just. It's mainly online but we do pop ups as well, like pop up stores. So I did one in London a couple of months ago, doing one here. We sell in Harrods, Selfridges as well and a couple of like concept stores in different places. But yeah, the main thing is online E commerce that, that side. However, I don't do the Facebook ads. I've never gone down that route.

You don't do any of that at all?

Never. Which is like I speak to people. I was like, what's wrong with you? He's like, why?

I would say that as well?

I don't know, I just, I haven't figured it out yet.

Have you tried it or.

No, but just like it's just been organic growth.

Yes, that's what I mean. So like the sales are coming from somewhere. So they're not. Because that's probably better than Facebook is.

Oh yeah.

It's obviously way more profitable. Shows people actually fucking care about the brand and shit.

Yeah, I don't know. I've never done like ad spend and all of that fancy stuff. It's all. It's always just been organic because it's like it makes the news and you know, celebrities wear it. So it just goes viral. Yeah, if there's a video posted, it just goes viral or like. Yeah, that's just how it's been for the last five years.

And how did that get going, like, viral wise? Obviously you come out with a product. What was the first thing to. Obviously most people jump to like Facebook ads, Google Ads, TikTok ads, whatever these days. Yeah, you've never done any of that. So how do you get started if you don't do any of that?

Through the marketing agency. So the, the actual like PR side of things and you know, articles get written up. Like we've appeared in every single magazine and platform, Vogue to Forbes to CNN and all of that fun stuff. So like all of the like traffic has just come from there. If it gets posted on Reddit, it goes viral. News covers it quite a lot. Yeah.

And you pay for that shit or is that like connections?

No, it's all free. Like just people want to do interviews and just ask questions about it and it's not. No, we don't pay for any of that. Never paid for a single article that's written. And there's like.

So you basically never spent money on marketing is what you're saying?

Yeah, basically.

That's mad and like celebrities and shit. Was that just. People started buying it because they were an obvious fit for the product or.

Started reaching out to us. So they buy stuff from us directly, I guess. I guess their friends or their family, like of a famous person. I guess their friends or family would tell them about it because it's one of those things that you could, you know, gift to a celebrity, I guess, if that's one of your friends or your mates.

Yeah.

So it makes, it makes a cool gift, I guess. And. Yeah, no, they just, they just buy it online. Online and. Or they contact us and we build a relationship. They like sometimes, like, if there's like a PR agent or something involved, they would ask us if, like if we would seed it to them, like give it to them for free. Which initially we start. We did for a bit and then after a while I just had to stop it because it was just becoming a bit too much and we're just losing money because everyone wants free stuff. So. Yeah, now, now everyone just buys. I haven't said that most, like 99% of the celebrities, they want to pay for it. Even if I would offer it for free.

Yeah.

Like I've offered a few people. I'm like, oh no, I'd love for you to have it. And they're like, nope. We see the grind and we understand where you're coming from and it makes a lot of sense and we don't mind spending on it. So.

Yeah. And most of the customers, celebrities on there.

There's a large, there's a large portion of celebrities, but it's not just celebs. It's basically just people that don't want unwanted pictures of them appearing or some. I hope people buy it for the design element of it as well. Some people buy it without even knowing what the functionality behind it is, just because I think it looks cool. But celebrities are a big, big group for me. But it's not my only goal. It's just, it's just part of it just comes with it.

Yeah, yeah. And how much is the product? It's super, super expensive, right?

No, it's like they're cheaper than Yeezys. That's how I put it. You know, Like I, I like, I get a lot of comments. Like on Tick Tock, I got a funny comment the other day or Instagram message saying, I would love to buy one but I have rent to pay.

You know, a lot of brands to get that. Yeah.

But it's like it starts at 260 quote quid.

Oh, yes.

Which is not crazy.

But that's for the scarf, right?

For the scarf, yeah. And then like, okay, a T shirt is like €200 that we just launched with Baller collaboration.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was last week. A couple of days ago, actually, we launched a collaboration with a Dutch brand, Baller B A L R. Yeah. And they're owned by three football players, three friends of mine, Dutch players.

I've always wanted to own that brand. I've seen that brand for years.

It's, it's a very good.

It's massive, huge.

That thing. They're like, it's public information. So I'm not like giving away their numbers, but I think they're on like 22 million a year. Like they do really well. And like I was in Istanbul last week before I came here and I went to the bazaar and you had like Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Balenciaga and then a Baller T shirt. Like, like the, the fakes and stuff. I was like, wow, that's such a cool achievement to like.

That is cool.

Be listed and that. And yeah, so that's a super dope brand by Damie de Zio, who used to play at Spartak Moscow and Ajax. And he had an unfortunate injury. Well, he got kicked in the face during. I think it was the Euros. And like his jaw just got misplaced and he had to. Yeah, he had to stop playing. And he's always. He was always intrigued by the fashion industry and lifestyle. So he sort of created a brand which emulates the life of a football player. So all of the luxury lifestyle and, you know, all that.

The name makes sense now.

Yeah, yeah. And then there's Algeria, Elia and Gregory Fander Vio, who was at psg. I think he went to bar as well for a while. But yeah, so it's those three guys and they do well, the Dutch. And I've been, you know, we've been talking about it for years and then we were going to launch it just before. And then covet happened.

Yeah.

So we had to move everything up and now we just launched it on the 1st of December. So I'm super stoked about that.

What products is that?

There's a lot. So there's a winter collection. So we got jackets, hoodies, T shirts, joggers, we got shoes. We got a bunch of different things. We got. We're dropping our own NFTs, which I only found out last night. Like a baller nft and then like an issue baller NFT of the whole collection, which looks super cool. Cool. Yeah. So, yeah, the bottle collection is super dope.

Is it all the same pattern for this? Yeah, for the first stuff, essentially.

Is the branding.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. So it's sort of like how Louis Vuitton has like a design. And so the pattern is something that we've patented and trademarked. And that's really, really, essentially what I'm trying to push out. So I'm trying to. So the issue brand essentially shows should be known for the pattern and not for the product. Like a scar for.

Right, yeah.

So the. So I can put it. So the solar panels that we've made are in my pattern. So it doesn't look like a typical solar panel. They look like it's the first branded solar panel, essentially, because no solar panels are branded. They all look the same.

That is cool. That's cool. Yeah. And you said obviously you want to do loads of different products that aren't just clothing. Yeah, obviously solar panels is one of them. Yeah. What else is on the on the radar.

I don't even know yet. Yeah, Like, I mean, sticking to the, the Metaverse conversation from earlier, sort of like we have it for your avatar. You can, you can clothe your, your stuff, which is an actual physical product. And then I'd love to, I'd love to sort of drive the brand to go towards a more like technology based company. Yeah. So producing like manufacturing maybe our own phones or maybe even build a car. I sound very Elon Musk right now. Just what I thought when I said car. I didn't mean car. Like, I've thought about it before, but it could be anything. That essentially is what I mean. It could be art pieces, could be anything. Anything could be a water bottle. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know yet. It's literally like, it'll just come to me one day and it'll be like, all right, cool, this is what's the next. Next products are going to be. But I've created like in the, in the fashion realm, like there will always be a fashion element to it as merchandise of the brand itself. So I've created like, like James Bond gadgety kind of products.

Yeah.

So like children's clothes with like a GPS tracker for their parents so they can always, you know, don't have to worry about their kids like running off or being kidnapped or. You know, I've, I've seen, you know, I've had moments at a beach or something where our cousin's just gone missing and everyone's just like panicking, running across the beach, trying to find this little cousin of ours. And, you know, so, yeah, that GPS trackers. Then I've created a belt with a hotspot inside of it so you can travel and always have WI fi.

Yeah, that's cool.

But it makes so much sense to me.

Like, that's like a similar way of thinking of the basketball light. Yeah, the basketball panel.

Yeah. And then you just put them together. Take two cool products, put it together. That's essentially all you have to do.

Yeah. Do you think there's any. Is any brand you look at and like, they're doing kind of what I want to do or they're doing that well.

Apple. I'm a big fan of Apple. Like the way that they've just revolutionized like design, because I'm big on design and the way that their packaging is and like, it's just perfect, you know, like opening the new imac. I just did that like last week. And it's just such an experience to just Unpack it. You know, I love that element of experience with products. So I think that's, that's probably up there then. I'm a big fan of artists like Alec. I see a couple of Alec Monopoly bits here.

Yeah, I was about to say that I think it's subconsciously in my head. So I'd seen that when I walked in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so I think Apple is a cool brand. I'm a big fan of Nike. I've always admired Nike for what they do and. But I don't think my brand is similar to any other brand. It's just how I want to do it. So I can't really compare it to another brand really.

Yeah. Is there like an end goal for the brand? As in like once we've reached a billion people?

Oh, in that sense?

Well it's really, that's kind of one sense I suppose.

I think I'm gonna keep like running the company until I've sort of, or the company outgrows me and I can't keep it up myself anymore. That's probably when I'll personally exit it or get someone else to run it instead of me.

Yeah.

But in terms of like I want someone else to buy us out or something, I don't really give that that much thought. I think there is, there should, there will probably be, there is probably a number that if someone comes up to me and says, hey, what do you think, Let me run it.

Yeah.

Then I would probably say yes. But at the moment I'm very passionate about it. I'm just involved in it and it's just like, you know, I get to travel to Dubai, I get to travel to Istanbul and London, New York and like all these other places. So it's sort of like it's, I've created a life around it essentially. But yeah, yeah.

So would you say it's a lifestyle business more than a let's grow the shit out of it business or.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd say so. I mean growing is super, super important. Like obviously that's why I'm here. Like this is the first time we're gonna take over like the uae and then from here I want to take it to Tokyo. After Tokyo, probably take it to Australia. I've already done the us, uk, hometown. I've only ever opened like a pop up store and done a few bits and bobs. But I've not actually like done it the way that I should do it. But I think it just comes over to like over time it'll figure itself out. Like, I mentioned it in another podcast I did last week with someone else where I consider the business is like five years old and it's sort of. It's just a toddler right now and it hasn't really built its own character. Like, I don't know when it's going to come yet because it's only five years old. So I really think of it in like a human sense, you know, like a human age I'll put against it. So it's my baby and the baby's five years old, but I don't know what the baby is going to do as a profession eventually.

Yeah, that's interesting. So I've never run a brand for more than 18 months by itself. Maybe I'm just thinking way too short term and I get. Get too greedy too quick.

Yeah.

Because even this new thing, I'm like, I'd like to build it to sell within five years. But maybe that's. I don't know, maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. I guess. Everyone's different.

Everyone's different. Every business is different, you know, So.

A business that you're passionate about as opposed to one that you're trying to build just to like sell and make X amount of money. But yeah, that's interesting because most people these days, but especially feel like young entrepreneurs who are like watching, I reckon, start like econ brands or whatever because primarily for money and like they want to build someone to sell, but they probably forget that like you can actually build something you're super passionate about and actually fucking enjoy and design your life around.

I think that's one of the most important, important things is to just enjoy it. Like if you get. If you're happy with whatever, then that's why you should run with it. Like, if you do something like, I would rather be broke. Sorry, this whiskey's strong. I would rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable. Or, like have a job where I'm making like 7 million a year and I absolutely hate my life.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? I'm like, that's not what life is about, man. Like, you're supposed to wake up, be happy, you know, help other people love and be loved and, you know, everything else just comes from there. So I'm very spiritual right now.

But no, it's good. It's probably what a lot of people need to hear, to be fair. Do you think on that? Because, like, a lot of people would say to that sort of message, oh, yeah, but if I. But Right now I have, like, literally no money and, you know, I need to build this business or this brand or this E Comm store to fucking, like, feed myself. Like, how do you balance, like, enjoying things and working on what you're passionate about with ultimately, like, covering, you know, the bare essentials, like fucking food and.

Because obviously bills and rents.

Yeah. To the majority of the world, like, statistically, that they have to think about that first. And I think that's why a lot of people ultimately don't end up pursuing stuff that they might otherwise do, like the passions, all this stuff. I mean, it's a fair point, but, yeah, like, it's super important to pay your bills.

Like, don't get me wrong, like, you have to have money to get done, like, at the end of the day, Right?

Yeah.

But I think, like, as an entrepreneur, what's that saying? Like, you jump off a cliff and you figure out by building a parachute on the way down. That's sort of what an entrepreneur really is. You know, you figure it out on, like, whilst you're doing it, like, don't stress too much about it. Like, of course, like, you have responsibilities and bills and like. I do. Like, we all do, you know, But I would say, like, reduce your cost so that you don't have to worry too much or, you know, get out of that or stop buying. Wasting money. Like, I. I see a lot of people that say, like, oh, you know, I've. I can't afford to start the business. But then they're wearing Yeezys or, yeah, they're buying Jordans left, right and center. And then they're, you know, they're shopping all the time. I'm like, dude, if you'd not spend all that money on all that crap, you could have started the business, like, seven times.

Yeah.

You know, it's like. Like, it's your own priorities. Like, where do. Where do you invest? You know, like, are you investing into assets? Are you investing into liabilities? Are you investing into, like, random crap? Like, you know, and starting a business doesn't even cost that much money, to be really honest. If you do it like. Like how I started it, like, from. With zero investors, is I made one scarf, sold it, made two, sold them, made four, sold them, made eight, sold them. And I organically just did it with every single sale. It takes longer, for sure, but at least, you know, you have a healthy business.

Yeah, very true, to be fair. Yeah. I think on that point, like. Yeah, because I. I get DMS about it. People thinking I know what I'M talking about, but from like 16 year olds. And yeah, I think the, the general answer is like, just try and immerse yourself. If you're interested in like building brand brands and econ, then just try and get into that as much as you can initially, like on the side of a job or uni, whatever it is, if you're studying and then. Yeah, just get around people. That's another point, actually. That's what I forgot I was going to say. So you mentioned like a mentor. Fabian.

Fabian.

Fabian, yeah. Like, obviously that's, that's just one guy. But like, how? Because. And because the question, I get in DMs all the time, I'm like, fucking know the answer. And I don't even have a personal brand and people still DM me this shit. Well, I guess I do to an extent now, but a small one. And people like, well, how do I find people to learn from? Like, how do I get around the right people? How do I network? What do you think the answer to that is? To like the average Joe who's maybe realized they're interested in like entrepreneurship, but they come from a standard XYZ background where most people aren't. Like, how would you start immersing yourself in those circles? Cause I have my opinion on it.

But when I get to get mentors, you mean.

Well, yeah, I guess to like to start surrounding yourself with the right people and potentially get mentors and, you know, just build the right circle. Because I think that's so important.

I think it's super important. I'm quite big on the fact that I don't like negativity. So anyone that, like, I only surround myself with positive people that use positive words that, that like the wording and the, the structuring of their sentences are very positive and uplifting. And to me, that's always been a filter to good people essentially. Like figuring out who good people are.

Yeah.

Is their mindset and how you meet them. I mean, you have to put yourself in positions to be in the same room as people and it takes time. It comes over time. And something that my brother, my older brother preaches to me all the time as well is, you know, mentors and people in general, partners or whatever, like they, they help you in certain areas of your life at certain different times. So it's not like one mentor knows everything and that's your guru or something. Like, I think you should have multiple mentors teaching you about, about different things or from their experience or just the way that they are as a human being. And if you sort of aspire to be like them one day, then I think that's, that's a first go to, you know, like, I mean we all have friends or you can reach out to people from LinkedIn to Instagram. Like it's, it's not that hard to connect with people anymore because of this whole social media and Internet and all of that. So. So I think it's a bit of a lazy excuse if you say that you don't know how to do it. Just you have Google in front of you. Contact someone, like, what do you expect.

Them to just knock on your door and be there?

It's free, it's all there.

Yeah.

You know, like, how did you meet that person? Google them. Found them on LinkedIn. On LinkedIn and we started a conversation and now we're doing business together. Yeah, you know, it's not rocket science.

Yeah, true.

What's your, what's your opinion? Because you said you had an opinion.

Yeah, I mean, I guess less so on mentors. I want to ask you about that again in a second, but like, yeah, so for example, I had some 18 year old guy message me off the back of one of these podcasts, whatever, saying like, how do I meet other people doing E commerce? Because I would say probably one of my biggest assets, which isn't money, funnily enough, which probably people don't speak about enough, is I've got a pretty good network, I guess, for my age, I think, and particularly a good close circle of people that are doing similar, etc. It's like, you know, it's good to feel like the smallest fish in a good circle rather than the opposite. Oh yeah, but people are like, oh, I'm interested in ecom, none of my friends are, you know, I'm at uni, whatever it is, I live at home. How do I start hanging around with you or you know, people above whatever it is. I guess the answer is firstly, you got to fucking. You've got to build some value or some element of brand for yourself. And like that doesn't happen overnight. Like one guy commented saying, you're so lucky that you have people that are in similar shit. And I was like, well, I'm not lucky at all because I went to uni, I was in school, no one was an entrepreneur creature. I went to uni, no one was an entrepreneur other than me. I dropped out, I didn't fucking know anyone. I was like, fuck this. Spent all my money going to, getting an economy ticket to Singapore to go to some event An E Commerce event. And that event I met like 10 people, some of which are now like my best friends. And I had like the butterfly effect.

Yeah.

So I think that's, that's kind of the answer. It's like you have to create your own initial momentum and then start building some like, credibility because, for example, like some 18 year old kid, like wanted to, I don't know, fucking go for dinner and talk about E Commerce, but he's never done anything like I. On the low level. I still am, but relative to him, like high level, there's not really anything in it for me, Jeremy. And by the same token, I couldn't message, right. Maybe I could, but like, it's unlikely. If I message, I don't know, some fucking billionaire tech guy and say, let me take you for dinner, he's gonna reply. Because there's no, like, there's no like mutually beneficial scenario there, really. It's just me, like trying to rinse off him. So I think you have to like climb the steps gradually, like maybe hang around with someone that's six months ahead of you and then like build your own shit and get some credibility and like follow through on things you say you're gonna do. And then people start to respect you in that sense and, I don't know, be fucking honest about things, whatever it is. So that's how I think you do it. And you start to build circles by the things you've done and the credibility you built in certain circles. And then also on top of that, always consciously putting yourself out to meet the next people, which is what I've probably not done enough of in the past, but started to do more of, primarily through this podcast, which was kind of the underlying reason to do it, other than it's fucking therapy for me talking about shit.

Yeah, I bet it is. Yeah.

Because then you meet other, other people that are ahead of me and XYZ things and, you know, hopefully there's an interesting conversation and a fucking glass of whiskey which sparks something.

Yeah.

Which maybe becomes a relationship or doesn't.

But yeah, I, I agree with that. You have to, like, for example, I think that's a good point. Like the, the getting an economy ticket and go to Singapore. I think if you put yourself in a position where you're uncomfortable, like by flying out to Singapore or like how I did, like I flew out to China a couple of years ago by myself, not knowing the language, not knowing where I was staying, who I was meeting with, nothing. Like I just went out. And then you meet people And I've done the same. Like a couple of years ago, actually, before COVID So I spent a lot of time in New York and Los Angeles and I wanted to move out of London because I've been in London for 15 years and I feel like I want to take that next step in my life, that next chapter. So I started focusing on moving to the us and everyone was expecting me to move to New York or Los Angeles because that's where I have an office in New York. And Los Angeles feels like home to me. But at the time same decided I wanted to go to Silicon Valley, even though I had never been to Silicon Valley in my life. I've only been to San Francisco once for like a couple of days, for a couple of meetings, but not. Not actually into like Silicon Valley Valley, you know, and it's the Bay Area. And I started looking for places online and I just wanted to get out of my comfort zone because if I went to New York, then I would be surrounded with the same people again. If I went to la, I'll be surrounded by the same people again. That's why I wanted to leave London, to get out of my network and build something completely from scratch. And I think once you get to Singapore by yourself, that's when you're going to meet people, you know. But if you stay comfortable and you play it safe, then I don't think it gets you that far.

Yeah, it's actually so fucking true. Like, you basically need a bit of balls initially to take that first step, whatever it is. And then there's a phrase which I think is so true. Like, experience breeds confidence. And like, then you start doing shit. I was like, maybe you have like, first make your first bit of money, drop shipping, whatever it is. Like, that's how I got side. And then there's that credibility. And then you think, well, yeah, I've done something. I can. I think, like, momentum is so key in life. I've been wary of myself, particularly the past year where, like, I don't know, you have like a few losses and, like, you lose momentum. And then I'm like, fuck, wait a minute, like, momentum slowed down. I need to switch things up here. Which is kind of what we were speaking about, like off camera, which is a primary driver of that. Like, whether it's a fucking breakup and you switch everything up and that sparks something again. Because, yeah, I see it in econ brands as well. Like one of my brands last year, when the other one started going tits up my jewelry business, which was a fucking Good business. It was doing, like two and a half million quid revenue run rate, profitable, barely touched it. But I took my eye off it and it lost moment momentum. And it's very, very hard in E Comm, in my experience and in life, but particularly in ecom, to, like, get momentum again.

Yeah, but it's not impossible.

And, like, yeah, momentum's so key, though. It's one of those things that, like.

Every area of life, of course, yeah, it is. Is. But it's not impossible to pick it up and build it again. You know what I mean? Like, momentum is great and it's like a wave, you know? But, yeah, I'm. I'm a big believer that there's always another wave. There's always another bus coming, there's always another flight, there's always another one like that. It doesn't stop. And I feel like a lot of people get very emotionally attached to the first wave or the first thing or, you know.

Very true.

But, like, you're super young, dude. Like, you've got so much potential of, like, when you're already doing great, but, like, there's so much more coming, you know, and that's the optimistic side that you need to look at, where it's like, the future is going to be so bright, you know, you got to, like, for example, like, when Covid hit, everyone was, like, playing the victim. Well, a lot of people were playing victims.

Yeah.

But then the real, real entrepreneurs are people that smashed it because they. They sat on it for five days going, Covid fucked it up. And then, all right, but cool. It is what it is onto the next. Like, how do I fix it? How do we pivot the business? How do we adapt? How do we learn? How do we grow? What can we do? How can we benefit? How can we, you know, like. And those are the real entrepreneurs. Those are people, like. Because if you play a victim, especially like, Covid is a perfect example. I saw a lot of people that call themselves entrepreneurs started using Covid as an excuse to not jump on a call or not drop that email or not work, because it's Covid. I have to stay at home. I can't work. It's fucking bullshit. Yeah, you can. If you really want to. You can send an email. Even if it is Covid. Like, you can make that call. You can have that Zoom meeting. You can. It's. How. How do you react to a scenario? And as an entrepreneur, like, you have to adapt to the market. You have to adapt to what the market tells you. Like, you have to be able to switch it up and change and just be optimistic about the fact that it took me a couple of days. Like when Covid hit, I was going to move to Silicon Valley. Didn't happen. I was going to do this boulder clap. Didn't happen. I had all these plans like everyone else on this planet for 2020. That's going to be the year. It's a round number. This is the time for us to go. We've been building up towards it. It was the fifth year, let's go. And then something happens. But that's just life. Like you just got to roll with the punches and accept move on, on to the next thing. Like not get too caught up and, you know. So what I'm trying to say is that there's always another wave. There's another way to build up momentum again, you know?

Yeah, I think definitely if you keep in the right mindset. Because I was assigned to be fair, like when the fucking Neon brand went to. So I've probably still got like fucking emotional distress attached with it. But like I was working on. I did the second I knew I was no longer going to be involved in that after this fund bought it out and I decided I wasn't going to work with them beyond the six months. I was like, well, what's next? I was already working on the next thing. And like, I think someone asked me, did you not want to have a few months off? I was like, what? Watching Netflix? Like, I know I'm not going to make 100 million doing that. Let's move on to the next one where I maybe can.

Absolutely.

So, yeah, I feel that it's fucking true.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people. Yeah, I just think that it's so true. Like real entrepreneurs, you see, who's actually got fucking balls or whatever it takes in a fucking buzzword when. When shit goes wrong. Like Covid, like everyone can be a baller when everything's going well. Yeah, but how do they react when everything goes wrong? There's not many people that experience, like, no one shares it.

Absolutely. Like one of my friends who is in Australia right now, he's had a couple of successful apps and then when Covid hit, he managed to get his hands on Covid tests, like PCR tests. Yeah, but this is like I'm talking early, like in London, if you Google a COVID test, like he's the go to guy. Like, he's the one.

Yeah.

And he had zero medical experience, but he's an entrepreneur. So any managed to like have his network. Right. And he had. But all of a sudden this guy became so big that the government and the UK needed to back him. Because he's the go to guy.

Yeah.

You know, so. But he has no medical. He made about £200 million.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. That's opportunity.

I feel like we need to cut that out. The money thing. This shouldn't be about the money thing. But.

Yeah, it's.

But what we're talking about is the adaptation of. Listen to the market. Figure it out and work your way into it. And then he. The government had to back him, you know.

Yeah.

And it was just like a. I don't want to say overnight thing because I think his experience with the apps and all the other business that he did led him to the stage where he could do it. Take the. Have the balls to just start it up without knowing way too much. Like knowing too much. And then eventually, like, you learn on the job. That's what he did.

Yeah. I actually read a tweet. It just made me think of that. It was something along the lines of like. It was like someone was saying that, like, you should never get into an industry that you don't have prior experience on with a startup because you don't have any experience. But the flip side is if you have no experience, like in that specific industry, for example, he was an entrepreneur, but didn't have the COVID experience, then you actually probably end up doing it better and quicker because you don't have any, like, I don't know, like corporate baggage. You don't have the red tape that you don't have. This is how you should do it. It's kind of like me again, I'm trying to get. Well, I'm getting it. I'm not trying to. I'm getting into the fucking mushroom space. Like, I didn't know shit about this stuff three months ago, but. And like, it's funny because I've had calls for certain people, like certain investors, for example, and just like people I spoke to about, and they're like, you know nothing about that. That's. Why is that gonna work? But my view of it is I haven't been bogged down in, like, the medical taboo of it. So I'll figure it out and I'll come at it from a fresh perspective.

Absolutely. Like a funny story. Like, I work for Mattel as well as another job, which is the toy company which owns Barbie, Hot Wheels, Fisher Price. Yeah. So as my inventor job, basically. So. But toy inventions and toy inventors is a thing like, there's about, I want to say around 600 companies or individuals that are toy inventors for all the biggest toys that you can think of.

Yeah.

And a couple of years ago, I got in touch with Michael James Dolan, who was the CEO of img, funnily enough, as well as Bacardi Global for seven years. Super genius, like, older guy in New York. And so he's on the board of Mattel, public listed, like, listed company. Yeah. And he was like, seth, you're an inventor. I want you to go to LA and go to the headquarters, meet Richard, the president of Mattel, and I'm sure you guys will have share some funny stories. So I flew out to LA, sat down with Richard, who is like the CEO of Mattel, and he was like, we work with 600 different inventors, but they're all toy inventors. And it's always the same toys that they come up with. You're an inventor, but you have zero toy apart from the ball. You have zero toy experience. Would you like to become one of our toy inventors?

Yeah.

And I was like, yeah. So essentially they brought me on board because I'm. I'm not in their traditional space of toy inventing. I'm going to bring a fresh take on it and I'm going to create toys that don't get pitch to the board every week, you know.

Yeah.

Because toy invents, it just became repetitive, essentially, and then. Yeah. Sort of pitching to them and. But it's coming from a different perspective, essentially.

Yeah. I think it's so key, like, just going against the grain and, like. Yeah. Like, because I have, like, no corporate business experience, so like, now doing this fundraising, like I was saying to you before, I don't know if you said that on the podcast or off, but. Yeah, like, I've never done a pitch deck before, so I just made a pitch deck of like 10 slides. And it was literally like, who, what, where, when, why? And I was like, well, this is what I'd want to read. And I've, like, added to it and tweaked it, but. And, like, one of the feedback I had from a few people was like, this is like, the most authentic thing I've ever seen, because I literally spoke about my mental health challenges in the pitch deck. So it was relevant. Instead of being like, we're doing SWAT analysis. I don't know. I feel like it went down pretty well, certainly for the right. The sort of people I'd want to work with anyway, because it was just authentic, honest and Authentic.

I think that's the most important thing in life. Yeah, just be honest and real and authentic. I think people like the pitch decks that screw themselves because they start believing their own lies, essentially. But if you're honest, like, you did your pitch deck and mentioning all these things there is like, it just. It just comes through. You can bullshit someone who's telling the truth, you know, so it's like, it's the most amazing thing to. To be that person and to put in your pitch that well done to you. Because that's literally what it is. Like, if you're just honest, you get shit done, you know? And if you start making up, like you Google what a SWOT analysis is, and then you have to type it out, even though you're struggling to figure out what you have to type out or. Yeah, like, it doesn't come from the heart and it's not real, like, because I'm the same way. Like, all the business. Like, it just comes from truth. It's just what it is.

Yeah.

There's no, like, blah, blah, blah. It's not colorful. It's just, like, straight to the point.

Yeah. And it resonates with people, like, even as far as. But I swear all the time I've got in there, which, whatever. Like, maybe that's rude, but, like, that's just how I speak. So, like, I've had calls with, like, these fucking investment funds and shit recently, and I'll just fucking swear for, like, an hour. Like, not, like, rudely, but, like, just authentically. And I think in certain cases, maybe I think I should be wearing a suit and fucking and not swear and stuff, but that's just not me. Like, I rock up wearing, like, I don't know, green tracksuit bombs. I mean, it's a zoom call, but, you know, and like, in a way, if people either get that or they don't. And. Yeah, I don't know, I. I find the, like, the contrast between, like, the corporate world and, like, the entrepreneurial side of business very interesting because, like, you get all these, like, I don't know, people and, like, generations that are brought up, like, thinking that you have to wear a suit and you have to speak a certain way. And like. Like classic examples, like, lawyers have to use big fucking words and everything they ever say. So I just say how it is. There's a real. And like, just on that, there's this. You've probably seen it, like, this meme chart which is all over, like, Twitter. It's like, low iq, average iq, high iq, and it's like a bell curve. Okay, you. I'll show you probably seen it. But. And basically the idea of this, you can apply it to like everything. So like stupid people will say something really simply. People that think they're clever will use massive words to try and sound clever. Then really clever people will use the same words as the stupid people. And it's the same like crypto. Like stupid people, crypto. Oh, it makes sense. It's going up by it. Like average IQ, 110 IQ. Oh, you shouldn't buy it. It's risky, blah, blah, blah. But like save money, all this shit. Clever people buy it goes up. It's just funny because you can apply it to so many facets of life and I feel like corporate jargon is one of them. You can also apply it to. Yeah, I don't know, it's just, it's just funny. People need to Google that. Google like bell curve IQ or something. You'll probably see it. It's like, it's like those meme faces.

That's amazing.

It's fucking funny. But yeah, I just, just think it applies to so many things.

This is water, by the way, not a shot glass.

Yeah, I think I got a short glass worth of water. I don't know why I got short glasses out. Right, bringing it back then, before we wrap up briefly, because we go down so many fucking things. What is the goal and plan for you over the next. I guess firstly, like the immediate future, but I guess on top of that, like, like longer term or is it more fluid than that? You don't have like exact I am things you're trying to achieve?

I have a goal to just always like, wake up happy and like, just do good things. I, I have like certain targets, but with the world that we're in today, you never know what's gonna happen. Like, Covet's just like, it's a bit unpredictable. Which is why I came out to Dubai, because I didn't want to risk the London thing again. And so I try not to plan too much far ahead. But yeah, I think I want, I want to, I want to make the brand like, well known out here now and then Tokyo, hopefully next and bring it back to the uk. I think that to me is important. And then obviously I have the solar panel stuff launching next summer.

Yeah.

And I'm just building towards that really. And just meeting good people like yourself and just like, just have good vibes around me, that's, that's my ultimate thing. That's. That's all I want. Really?

Yeah, yeah.

What about you?

What about me? Geez. Well, yeah, I wasn't expecting that. I suppose immediate goal is. Well, I suppose the broader goal, like over the next few years is to build the Mushroom Wellness brand. Because I feel like that's something like the way I'm coming out. I'll have to send you the fucking deck just for reference after this. I'm talking.

I just wanted this one. We met at Soho House the first time. I think it's absolute genius. And I think you're 10 years ahead by doing this hallucinogen mushroom business. Essentially, it's going to be the next, like, cbd, thc, weed legalizing, and all these different countries because I'm Dutch. So we used to sell. Well, we still sell truffles and mushrooms in kosher, but it used to be a lot more. And it's like a normal thing. You know, people microdose and like, it's a. It's a normal thing over there. So I feel like you're. You're. You're ahead of the. Ahead of the game, I think, which is super interesting. So the people that do want to get involved with you, they're. They're going to have a very exciting roller coaster because it's only going to go up, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about it. So, yeah, I guess, like, yeah, goes over next few years is fucking build that and then see what I can do with this podcast on the side. But yeah, I feel like that brand is quite interesting. I mean, I've not even launched it yet. It's fucking pre revenue, but it's like the intersection of I can do something really cool, like aesthetically and creatively, because that's where I come out. Everything from as like a designer, but also like something I'm really interested in, but also something I think the world fucking actually needs. So I said, oh, fuck, this shit could be huge. So.

And it will be.

Yeah. And it has like actual meaning to it, I feel like, actually help a lot of people and shit, potentially. So that's really the plan. Final question then, which is a bit of a fucking typical one. But I always ask it now it's becoming a thing. If you could give advice to yourself back when you were like 18, 19, 20, like, maybe 1, 2, 3, whatever. A few key bits of advice just about life and business, whatever. And you have. And the most important bits, what would they be with the perspective you have now?

Don't be so hard on yourself and have patience and just let the universe do its thing. Like, yeah, okay. Like, you have to work for stuff. But I. I feel like everything's already written out for you. Like, it is. Like, it already is planned and you just gotta let it happen whether it's good and bad. Like, don't fight it too much. Like, just take it easy. You know, just be. Sorry. I'm just mic. Just. Just be nicer to yourself. Because I'm quite. I'm my own, like, critic. Like, I'm very harsh on myself. I'm very, like, go, go, go, go, go. Next. Next. And like, you know, and it's. I think it's A lot of entrepreneurs have it, but it's also something that I feel like makes me different to the rest because I push myself beyond. Like, I really, really push myself. So, yeah, the advice I'd give my younger self would probably just be, just don't be so hard on yourself. Like, just let it flow. Let. Let. Let it be, like, and focus on the little things like that. And that's another, like, Covid lesson. Like, what's actually important, you know, your family, your friends. Like, being nice and not into this, like, materialistic, like, mindset. Just be. Just be happy with the little things and then everything will be fine. Like, if you don't. If you don't. If you don't appreciate the little things, you don't appreciate the big things. Yeah, I just said that for the first time, and that sounds actually pretty cool.

That sounded profound. Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, that's. That's it. I'll leave it at that.

Yeah. Sweet.

Cool.

All right. Cool with that. Yes. 90 minutes easy flies by. That's episode 18, 17, 18, I think you said.

Is that 90 minutes?

That's 90 minutes already. Yeah. It goes by quick. Yeah. If you're enjoying the pod, subscribe, as usual. Recommend it to a friend. I said 52 episodes in 52 weeks. I will be doing that. And yeah. Hope you enjoyed the episode. See you in the next one.

Thanks.

Yeah, it was fun.

Yeah.

Good to have you on peace. Cheers for watching. Bye.