The Rise of Generative AI Video Tools

I don't think I've had as much fun with AI as I have in the last, like months playing with these tools that are coming out right now.

People are going to be very addicted to these things, right? All the tools are getting better too.

Now we're starting to wonder, did Sora kind of blow it?

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Hey, welcome to the Next Wave podcast. I'm Matt Wolf. I'm here with Nathan Lands. And today we're going to talk about AI video. There's been these really interesting AI video generators out there, right? We've had Gen 2, when we've had Pika Labs and we've had Leonardo Motion, and there's been all of these really cool AI video tools, but they've really been kind of just that, just sort of cool, right? They haven't really had great practical use cases. We haven't been able to create videos with one of these tools and legitimately use it as like B roll or make like a really good film out of it. They've all had this sort of weirdness to it. That is until we got a sneak peek of Sora from OpenAI earlier this year. When everybody saw Sora, we saw this AI text to video platform that made videos that actually looked realistic. And pretty much everybody in the AI world got ultra, ultra excited about Sora and what it could possibly do and how realistic it can make these videos. But then we never got access to it. We never actually got to play with it. We kept getting teaser videos. They gave it to like a handful of creators. Like three or four different creators were allowed to use it. And we got some demos from that. But still to this day, most of the world hasn't gotten access to Sora. Well, now we're starting to get some alternatives to Sora that are looking pretty dang good. We recently got Luma, who released their Dream machine. We have Gen 3 from Runway, which has been sort of teased, but we haven't gotten access to it yet. And now we're starting to wonder, did Sora kind of blow it? That's kind of the discussion we want to have today is, you know, where is AI video going? Where did it come from? Where's it going? What's available now? What's coming in the future? I think there's a really interesting discussion here.

I think probably the general consensus online right now is that OpenAI did wait too long. That's kind of what most people think. I think I disagree with that, honestly. Like, I was probably one of the first people on Twitter, like, doing, like, really big AI video threads. Like, right when it was all first starting, like, that was like one of my main, you know, like, things I was doing every week was like, putting out here's the top AI videos this week. And I kind of stopped because I. After Sora came out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because, like, they had videos were kind of cute. And then Sora came out, I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, sure. I can get clicks on this and views. But I feel kind of dumb putting out, like, here's these amazing AI videos after people had tall. Sora know by them putting it out so early that it's made everything else look bad. These new ones are, like, catching up. Like, especially like Gen 3, I thought was pretty amazing. Dream Machine's pretty awesome, but still, they don't look as good as Sora. And so what I would say is, yeah, it's not released yet, but whatever they showed then is going to be better by the time it's actually released, most likely. And so when they do come out with something, you know, it's going to be, you know, almost kind of like how, like, I think Apple back in the day were, like, they would come out with the very best product. Maybe it wasn't out first, but it would be the best when it came out. No one's actually found real use with AI video yet. And it feels like Sora is most likely one that when it actually comes out, it'll be the first one that will have real use. And that's why they've talked with Hollywood and other, you know, like, they've been talking to major studios. Apparently, right now the main players are sora. I mean, OpenAI sora as well as probably gen 3, because gen 3 also, it looks like it's just like, barely behind Sora.

Yeah, no, it's funny you say that because, like, I used to make a lot of YouTube videos about men. Look how far AI video is coming, right? And I would show off, like, how much better Pika Labs has gotten or how much better Runway Gen 2 has gotten. And I was. And then we had stable video diffusion, and there was all these different AI video models that came out, but they were all, you know they had weirdness to them. Right? Like, every video, for whatever reason, looks like it's moving in slow motion. People would, like, morph. They would start looking like one person and then morph into a completely different person. All the AI video models I've seen so far still really suck at hands, right? So there was all of these video tools that were kind of cool, but then the OpenAI went and showed off Sora, and now I was like, okay, well, they just raised the bar of what AI coolness looks like. So now anything I ever show off in a YouTube video, that is me trying to say, look at this cool new AI video tool looks lame compared to Sora. So I kind of stopped making those kind of videos, but now I'm making them again. Because we're starting to see Gen 3. We're starting to see Luma's Dream Machine. We're seeing these other tools pop up now.

Yeah, it is exciting. Like, Dream Machine you can actually use. So that's. That is the exciting part. Like, it's not as good as Sora. It's probably not as good as Gen 3 either. But it's not that far, far behind. And you can actually use it right now. Like, I saw your video where you made a music video, you know, and I thought that was awesome. Like, oh, it's like, oh, that's actually. Yeah, I wouldn't, like, put that on TV yet, but, like, that's probably like, six. That's probably, like. That's probably like six months or 12 months away from being, like, almost like, TV quality. And the idea that you've got all these new tools that are coming out, you got, like, you know, Udio and I don't know, it feels like we're at the very beginning of, like, this creative explosion where all these tools combine and there's. The level of art and entertainment in the world is going to go up dramatically, I think, because everyone's gonna be able to make this stuff. It's gonna be awesome.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think it's a buzzword, but it really democratizes video creation. Right. One of the things that I'm really excited about is just B roll, right? I make a lot of YouTube videos, and I don't like to be just on camera the whole time. I like it to change what you're looking at. I want the video's pace to keep going. And oftentimes it's hard to find B roll. And when you do go find B roll, you're searching for, like, stock video sites, right? I use Storyblocks is the one that I use. And when I go through Storyblocks, like, you can find videos that are sort of relevant, but you're not fooling anybody that it's not stock video. Right. It all looks like stock video when you have, like, that corporate conference room and like, five people in a suit are all leaning forward over, like, a conference call or something. And everybody's seen those exact videos. Even if you haven't seen that stock video footage before, you just know what stock video looks like. And so this really excites me. Anything I can imagine, I can say any wild thing I want on one of my YouTube videos, and now I can create a little bit of a B roll for that. Whatever random wild thing I said was.

Did you see how good Gen3 is at text in video?

I haven't yet.

It's perfect.

I'm actually at Augmented World Expo right now as we're recording this, and a lot of these tools and announcements are dropping while I'm at this event, so I haven't actually been seeing as many of the demos. But I will say about. About the Luma Dream Machine is that it's really, really good when you start with an image and you turn that image into a video. But if you go in there and you enter a text prompt and try to generate a video from a text prompt, that's what I did. It's not great.

Yeah. So. So Gen 3, the CEO, he's the CEO of Runway. He's been showing clips on Twitter, and I saw one yesterday. He showed like, five in a row of, like, text. Like, you know, you read out your name, you know, Mr. E. Flo. Or you read out the Next Wave text on screen. Or Lore. Text on screen is perfect in Gen 3. I mean, to the point, it's like, crazy. Like, okay, you type in something and you want to be talking about time, and you want it to have sand coming down, or you want the words to come fly out of something, and all of a sudden there's sand dripping down. Perfect. Another one where, like, the words actually were, like, being, like, dragged through a jungle and they were made of dirt, and then they popped up like, like anything you want to do with text, like, for, like, advertisements or B roll or, like, intros to a show. It's. That's already very, very good now. I was. I was kind of surprised. Like, I want to type in lore and see what pops up when you do that.

Yeah, no, that's. That's awesome. Because, I mean, even most of the text to image generators still struggle with getting the text in the image for the most part. So to actually know that we're getting like a video one that can do that as well is. Is pretty crazy. The other thing about the Gen 3 is all of the clips that they've been showing off, I believe are 10 seconds, ish, maybe even longer. But when it comes to Luma's Dream Machine, you can only generate 5 seconds of video right now. But they did just add this extend so that you can get five seconds. And then I think it pretty much uses the last frame of that video as the first frame of the next video. And so it's extends it that way. But when you do AI video generation in that way, because it's like building off of the last one gets a little bit worse quality. Right. Every single extension looks a little bit worse than the extension before it.

Yeah. And I heard something from the Luma Labs team saying that right now, yeah, they could do one minute videos, but with their current model, apparently after five or ten seconds, like the animations just kind of stop. Like if you had a character doing like an action scene, running around with a gun, shooting it all around by 10 seconds, the person's like kind of just like standing there with a gun, looking around or something like this. Like the model's not fully there yet in terms of a long, long clip. And so apparently that's the sweet spot currently for them.

Yeah. And the other thing that I hear about Gen 3 is it's really fast. Right. I think I saw Cristobal post something on Twitter about how like it generates about 45 seconds, where I don't know how much you've played around with Luma Dream Machine, but they have. You have to wait in a queue and then once you get through that queue, then it takes two minutes to generate. Minimum two minutes. I've actually found it's probably closer to like three minutes. But the very first time I ever used Luma's Dream Machine, I logged in, tried to generate a video from it and it took seven hours in queue before that three minute generation happened. So I actually typed in my prompt and I had it open thinking, oh, it's going to generate anytime now, anytime now, anytime now. And eventually I just like walked away and went and ate dinner and probably like watched a movie with my family and then came back and it was still in queue. It actually all said and done. It took seven hours in queue before it finally.

And then you got an amazing video, right?

No, the video was horrible. I Did the prompt a monkey on roller skates? Because that was the first AI video I ever generated back when I was playing around with Model Scope. Really, really, like a couple years ago. And so I wanted to see, okay, this is a monkey on roller skates that I generated two years ago. This is a monkey on roller skates using Luma Dream Machine. The Luma Dream Machine version was worse than the version I made two years ago with Model Scope. And it took me seven hours and three minutes to generate. And I mean there. So there's actually, there's actually other video generators too that a lot of people have been comparing to Sora. There was that cling that came out of China, but you had to have a Chinese phone number to use it. Although I did hear some people just entered their like US number and they got access anyway. I haven't attempted yet. I don't know though. Nothing that I've seen from Kling makes me go like, oh, this is Sora level. Like, I don't know, it just right to me. I never saw anything that went that's on the same level as this stuff. But I have seen stuff come out of Luma's Dream Machine. I have seen some of the Gen 3 videos where I'm like, that looks pretty damn close. Especially when you start with like a. A realistic looking image or even a real image in Luma and have it animated. It's actually pretty dang good looking.

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of scenes coming out. I mean, I'm especially impressed by Gen 3. I think it looks pretty amazing. Like there's parts where you can see, like if it was higher resolution, it's not high enough resolution yet. It would already be good enough to put in as like B roll in like major films.

Yeah.

So that's exciting. And then did you see the stuff with like anime, like little anime clips? I mean like it even does anime pretty well. And so yeah, I don't think I've.

Had as much fun with AI as I have in the last like month just playing with Suno and Dream Machine and Udo and all of these tools that are coming out right now. You know, it reminds me about two, I don't know, two and a half years ago. Two years and a couple months ago when Mid Journey first came out and I started playing with Mid Journey for the first time. And like I just like lost sleep. Right? Like I would stay up until 1:30am Just generating images going, can I do this? Can I do this? And then when I learned about Stable diffusion. And I fine tuned a model on my face and I was able to make myself Superman or make myself riding a horse or myself an astronaut or whatever. And that was the next time I was like, all right, I, I just lost a whole day of my life playing with this, generating images. Well, now I feel that way again with the combo of like Suno and Leonardo's new AI image generator and Midjourney and.

The Dream Machine. Like to me it is so much fun. I made that video on YouTube where I showed myself making a music video and I used Suno to make the video and then Midjourney to make the starting images. And then I took the Mid Journey images and I put them into Dream Machine to animate them all. And then I used DaVinci resolve to edit them all together. And.

That video actually probably took me a good like 10 hours to produce just because of all the waiting time for the processing in Luma. But it was so much fun. I was like so blown away with some of the videos that were coming out of it. Not all of them. Some of the videos were really, really impressive though.

Yeah, and all, and all the tools are getting like, better too and like more fun to use. Like even Mid Journey now you don't have to use it on Discord. They have the website and that interface is so much more pleasant to use. And also the personalized feature. Have you, have you tried that out yet?

Yes, in Mid Journey I tried it on and off.

I'm like, oh yeah, the one where it's like personalized for me. Yeah, I like that better. That is kind of cool. And to realize like long term, all these models are going to learn whether it's like the, the, the AI art, the videos, the music, games in the future, they're all going to learn what kind of stuff you personally like and help you amplify your own, you know, your own creativity. And it's, it's just, it's exciting to think about, like, yeah, these are all going to get better. This is the worst it's ever going to get. And just imagine in like two years how fun it's going to be to like produce music and videos and whatever you want. And it's probably all gonna be like way faster too. A lot of this stuff is probably going to get almost instant. There's no reason this stuff can't be instant. It's some point. So imagine that you could just like type in stuff instantly and you've just created a song, you've now created a video and you're like in. In real time, like, editing these things together yourself. It's gonna be awesome. I'm excited.

Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's gonna have essentially their own custom Mid Journey model, right? Like, I can enter a prompt into Mid Journey, you can enter the identical prompt. And if we're both using our own personalized model, we're gonna get two probably pretty dramatic outputs because it's gonna make one for my taste and one for your taste. And I just think that's really, really cool. I think, you know, the other side of the coin of this conversation is the type of comments that I've been getting on my YouTube video, where I made a music video or when I actually shared the music video over on X and on Instagram is, you know, I start getting a lot of these comments of, like, oh, great, you're making a video that's helping people, you know, perpetuate the downfall of the music industry. The downfall of the video industry. Oh. These tools are trained on copyrighted material. So, you know, this is just as, you know, bad as stealing the original material and using that in your videos. And those are the types of, like. I mean, not most of the comments, but I'm seeing those kinds of comments, right, of, like, the copyright implications. The implications of, like, if I can make music with this, then that diminishes the work of artists and all that kind of stuff. I'm personally in the camp of, like, I call BS on all of that. I don't think it diminishes anybody's work. I think the fact that I can make an AI image that I think looks really cool and the fact that this person over here can actually draw it with their own hand and make something that looks really cool. I'm way more impressed by that version than the version that I made. And I think I always will be just by the fact that a human was behind it, making it.

Yeah. Did you see the. The blowback that Ashton Kutcher got when he was. He was talking about? He basically. He got access to Sora. He said it's good. And he's like, it's going to change Hollywood. And he made some, like, really, like, you know, big statements about it. And people are like, oh, my God. You're like, you know, you're turning your back on. You went with tech over, you know, Hollywood now, and you're, like, turning your back on creators and you're okay with screwing them all over. And he was like, no, I. You know, I think humans are still going to be involved, but, like, yeah, of course entertainment is going to evolve like it always has. Like, like, you know, obviously over the last 20 years, you know, CGI has like, really taken over Hollywood. Right. Like, like, like how many major films use cgi, Right. Like a lot of them. Now this is a further evolution of, of entertainment. And I think that's like what humanity. It's kind of like our purpose is to evolve and continue getting better and better. So. Yeah, but you know, there's, there's a natural instinct to be worried about change. Like, change is scary. And so I understand like, people being worried because, like, yeah, there probably, there probably will be periods where there will be some job loss related to this stuff, for sure.

Yeah. And I, I mean, George Lucas, he was, he was asked what he thought about all this AI stuff, right. And his response was essentially, well, it's all inevitable. It's. It's going to happen anyway. Just like, you know, you know, we were doing everything with practical effects, and then we got computer graphics and we started doing everything with cg and now we've got AI and, and so like his sort of analogy was like, when cars started to come out and people started going, yeah, but we're just going to stick with horses. Well, you can stick with horses, but these machines are going to keep going. We're going to keep evolving, we're going to keep improving them. You can stick with horses if you want, but that's not how the world works. We're going to figure out new, better, innovative solutions to accomplish the same goal. That's just what humans do do. We try to figure out how to get more efficient, how to optimize processes, how to get better at what we do, how to use technology in our favor to leverage that technology to make our lives easier. That's what technology essentially exists for, is how can we use tech to make the things that used to be more manual, less manual for us? That's how it's always evolved.

Speaking of evolving, did you see where the Gen3 Runway they were talking about? They put up this blog post about how they're creating general world models. Like, that's apparently that's the way that they are producing AI video now, which was rumored that that was what Sora was doing as well, is that they're actually, they're kind of creating an idea of what the world is like a model of it.

Like a digital twin kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

And that's why it can be so consistent. Right. That's why you could have a train actually moving and seeing things as it moves is because it's kind of produced a world that it's inhabiting.

I think that's fascinating. And to think that like, you know, Nvidia has talked about this as well, you know, and Nvidia, who just became the number one company in the world, think about how, how that's going to change. Games, you know, videos, like, like imagine that like the online games now, like the worlds are so limited, but like, it seems like with this new technology you'll be able to, you know, create. You could, you could create kind of like how Minecraft, you know, you go in the world and like, you go to the edge of it and it produces more. Like imagine those kind of things with AI where you get to the edge of the world and you get the edge of space and like, oh, here's now the new planet or here's now whatever. Like it's infinite, it goes forever. Like those, those things are going to become possible, like at a really high fidelity. Not like Minecraft go.

Let the game developers hear you say that. Because if there's any group of people that are sort of more vicious towards the AI community that are sort of pro AI, it's the game developers. Like, I've, you know, I've had debates with people that are in film and music and things like that and you know, some of them are pretty upset by what's going on. But I have never seen the level of hate on some of the stuff I've posted from then, from what I've seen from some of the like game developer community. If you talk about AI taking over game development, they're probably the first ones to like, just absolutely try to destroy.

I mean. Yeah, I mean, the reality is though, the game industry is in a really stagnant moment. Like the game industry, you know, it's worse than what's happening in Hollywood, I would say, where, you know, the games are so expensive to make that everyone just copies the previous game and gamers are getting tired of it. I think, I think that's why you see the growth numbers have stagnated.

I feel like there's a big like sort of renaissance of like indie developers right now. Like most of the games that I play, I'm a big gamer myself, most of the games I play are from indie studios. They're not the big AAA games.

Yeah, yeah. And AI is going to help them, like, and sure some of them will be resistant to it right now, but once they see what it can actually do for them, we're like, oh, you can Be like five people who just. You can now compete with ea. You know, you can. You'll be able to produce an entire world. You'll have help with the storylines, with the characters, with the creation of the art assets. That's all coming in the next two years. And so I think it's going to be great. We're like, oh, yeah, the game industry is very stagnant now, in my opinion. And I think that's going to change in two years. And, yeah, sure, people are yelling about it right now, but it won't matter. Some people will lead the way and then everyone else will have to follow after that, I think.

Yeah, yeah. You know what would be a really good guest for this show that I think would be really fun to talk to is somebody who can intelligently speak to us about copyright law and how copyright law is going to be impacted by a lot of this stuff. So I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but in my opinion, copyright law is part of the big perpetuation of AI. So all of the companies, all of the people that are out there, like, fighting against AI because they're worried about it using copyrighted material. I sort of have this opinion that they're pushing AI forward faster than had they just, like, not brought this stuff up. And the reason I say that is, like, look at, like, stock photos, right? So I had a blog where I actually hired a editor to come through after I wrote a blog post. Sort of clean up the blog post and then add imagery to the blog for me. Right? Well, they came in and they added some images, and I looked at the blog post, thought, cool, this is cool, let's publish it. We published the blog post. I assume the images they use were just from a regular stock photo site. Well, it turns out they did a Google search. They pulled a photo that was owned by the Associated Press, and I got an invoice in my email for using that photo for $800. So for this one photo that was used on the blog post that my editor grabbed from Google Images, I had to pay $800 for the right to use that photo. And I emailed him. I'm like, well, can I just take it down and use a different photo? And they're like, no, the damage is done. Pay the invoice, essentially. And so in my mind, when I saw AI image generation, I went, awesome. I don't have to, like, worry about that anymore. I could just go generate any image I want now. And so, like, these, like, copyright pressures that they're putting on creators are, are pushing creators towards using AI. Same with Suno, right? You look at something like Suno, how many people have you heard of that put up YouTube videos? Maybe there was a song playing in the, in the YouTube video. They got the video copyright struck in and either had the video completely removed or had 100% of the monetization from that video go to the copyright holder. I've had that happen where I made a 30 minute video and maybe 10 seconds of that video had an audio clip that was copyrighted by somebody else. Just kind of an oversight. It slipped. Well, because of that 10 second clip, all of the revenue for that full 30 minute video had to go to the copyright owner of that 10 second clip. That doesn't make any sense. That's not fair to me. Like give them 10% of the revenue, not 100% of the revenue, you know, so that kind of stuff comes up. Well, now that stuff like Suno exists, we what am I going to do? I'm not going to go use music that I find online. I'm just going to go generate the perfect song for that video right now. However, had copyright law been a little bit different and creators were allowed to, you know, use some images they find online or use some music that they find online in their videos without worried about like it affecting them, their livelihood, I don't think people would be jumping to go and generate music with Suno or jumping to generate images with Mid Journey as part of their content as quickly because they can just use content and stuff that was created by other people. So I have this opinion that I really, really think copyright law needs to change. And if copyright law is different than it was now, it would actually probably, you know, stop as many creators from jumping to using these potential AI tools. Anyway, that's the end of my little rant about copyright.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think this will be a moment where copyright's forced to evolve. Like, you know, copyright is so complicated. I mean, my last startup Binded, we ended up pivoting into copyright, which was not the initial intention. I spoke in front of, I spoke in Washington D.C. about the future of copyright on a panel and I still feel like I barely understand copyright. Like it's so complicated, you know, and I met with the guy who was at that time heading Creative Commons and talked to him a lot about, you know, copyright and all the issues and you know, Creative Commons was always interesting, but also Creative Commons is so complicated. Like there's so many different versions of Creative Commons and it increases so much cognitive overhead of, like, okay, which one do I pick and how do I do it?

And.

And it's. It's all so complicated. I. I don't know where copyright goes in the future because just like.

Yeah.

I mean, in the new world, it almost doesn't make sense in its current state. Like, I think there should be laws around, like, okay, if you directly copy somebody, like, in this, like, you know, it's, you know, Michael Jackson. And now you've got Michael Jackson singing in the song. Yeah, yeah. Like, probably his estate should be paid something. But if it's not directly copying people, I just. I don't see how copyright exists in its current form, like, ten years from now.

Yeah, yeah. And I don't know the solution either. Right. Like, I don't. Yeah. I do think that people that spend the time to create the art, people that spend the time to make the music, to, you know, generate the stock video, to take the photos, I think they should be compensated for the work they're doing. I do think that's important, and I don't know how that works. I mean, right now, copyright is just kind of the best solution they got. But I don't think it is the, you know, the final solution. I don't think it's the. I think the way copyright works and the way that companies are going and sort of, you know, slapping down creators for using the content is.

It's just. It's not helpful to their cause in the long run. Right. I think that's sort of my opinion on it. Right. Like, you look at, like, TikTok, and what was the. What was the company that took all of their music off of TikTok for a little while and now it's back on. But, like, you couldn't use Taylor Swift's music and you couldn't. There's, like, all these artists that you couldn't use on TikTok because they're. The deal with this music company. And TikTok fell through. I don't know if you remember that. A couple months ago, what ended up happening was a lot of the artists that were on this record label, they got a ton of exposure because content creators were using their music in their TikTok videos. And like, there's bands like AJR, who. I'm actually a big fan of AJR. They actually credit a lot of their.

Their.

Their fame and their success and their music growing, blowing up to the fact that Tiktokers were using their music on their, you know, their little clips and things. So people Heard the songs in the TikToks. They, you know, TikTok always put the name of the band on there, and then people would click on the name of the band and go find more songs by that band. It was actually a really, really good growth mechanism for these bands to allow content creators to just use the music on their videos. And then when the record label had their beef with TikTok, the record label shut off this stream of, like, awareness around these bands. It just doesn't make sense to me. Like, the way copyright works right now just doesn't make sense. Let content creators use it and let it be an exposure mechanism for these things.

I mean, so I saw an article yesterday saying that Perplexity is trying to figure out some kind of deal with publishers to, to pay them. And I think that could make sense when, like, you're directly citing something like, okay, yeah, this is directly from this article, and that's where we got the information from. And now I'm doing some kind of payment or revenue share deal for something that's. That's that clear. But with art, it's way more complicated because it's just like, artists have always went to, like, art museums and things like that to get inspired. That's what AI. That's what the AI art models are doing. They are not copying the art. They are they. Yeah, music too. They are getting inspired by it. And so I think it's different. And I don't see how you ever properly reward those people for having created that. The same way you don't pay, you know, if you got inspired by going to an art museum, you don't go back and pay, you know, some famous artist. Right.

Well, I mean, it just. I feel like music's even muddier, right, because you have bands that go and sample other bands, right? So, like, you know, Run DMC goes and samples Aerosmith for, you know, Walk this Way, right? You get stuff like that, and now you've got multiple artists in the mix and, you know, it's just the waters are really muddy and, you know, I feel like I've beaten this horse to death. I just. I think you and I are both on the same page here of like, yeah, like, we understand why copyright exists. We understand that creators need to get paid for what they're creating. It just needs to be rethought somehow.

A lot of things about, like, you know, the, like, you know, I'm. I'm pro capitalism, but, like, the whole system is probably gonna have to be rethought at some point. Like a lot of things stop making sense in the next 10 years as things become more and more abundant, you know, and there's less scarcity.

Especially like with robots. Like you combine AI and robots and a lot of things have to change. Like a lot of things. So.

About that last week, I'm excited.

About the robot K pop bands, right? You get, you get like five robots that can all sing and you put them on, you teach them dance moves and you put them on stage.

Yeah.

And now, now people are gonna go watch these and then they can just like clone those robots. And then it's like the Blue Man Group, right? Like the Blue man group can do tour, like multiple tours at the same time because it doesn't have to be the same Blue Men at every single group. Right. Like, are we gonna, is that the future of like music, entertainment? We're gonna see like K pop robots singing on stage, but they could be doing multiple futures.

Yeah. There used to be this thing in Tokyo that was like a robot show that you'd go to and I think it was just like girls dressed up like robots or something and they may have like one or two real robots that did some small moves or something. Unfortunately they stopped doing that. But that used to be a huge, a huge tourist attraction. Yeah. I think in the future people are gonna not have to work as many hours because AI is just going to make people so much more efficient. And you combine that with all these new technologies. Yeah, we're gonna have some really amazing live experiences and yeah, music and robots and everything you can imagine it's gonna be. You know, a lot of people are so scared of this that I'm like, imagine where we're gonna be in 10 years. It's gonna be fun. Like the world's gonna look way different than now. Stuff out of movies is gonna be coming real. You know, it's a very exciting time to be alive. Like, at least for me. You know, it's hard to get me excited about things like, like regular day to day things. Right. I find pretty mundane and so I'm like, yeah, for the world to change more. That sounds great. Yeah, you know, I'll be excited to wake up every day. That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, it's going to be exciting. It's going to be fun. I'm loving all the latest AI video, AI audio, AI image tech. I love seeing it progress. But at the same time, you know, I still love real art. Like I still love going to shows and watching bands play in concert, you know, I still love making my own music with a real guitar and, you know, and actually playing something that I'm proud of. You know, I like looking at art that I know was painted by hand with oil paintings or watching a video or a move. Going to the theater and watching a movie that I know took, you know, two years to produce. To me, I don't really see AI eliminating that stuff, which is what I feel like most people are scared of. I think more likely we're going to see AI sort of cut down the process of, you know, maybe some of the small B roll they use in videos or to like fill in the backgrounds of videos with like fake actors. Right. Like, I think the people that are really in trouble in Hollywood are probably like the extras, if I'm being honest. Right. Like, yeah, you have like a scene with a big crowd. Well, with AI now, I mean really just with visual effects in general, this doesn't even require AI but with visual effects in general, you know, you can have just that front row of people, be real people and then everybody behind them. I'll be generated. With AI you don't need to fill in with extras. Right. So I think that's probably going to be the most affected group in Hollywood. But overall I think we're going to see some big change. I have no clue what it's going to look like, but I think it's going to be fun to continue to have conversations about it.

Yeah, I, I kind of think it may be more extreme than what you just said. I mean, I kind of think that you may replace all actors at some point and the humans do become more the niche product and that. But I don't know, right. Like it may be like, you know, yeah, people read books, but how many more people watch movies and like, yeah, the AI stuff might become more like the movies and the human stuff, maybe more like the books where, yeah, people, some people enjoy that, but a lot of other people don't care.

So I agree and I disagree. I, I, I, I agree that I think they will be able to make full movies without actors. It'll be like they can AI generate it, but I think it's going to be like a genre, Right. I think you look at like Disney movies, right? For the longest time you had all of the Disney movies that were drawn by hand and animated the old fashioned way. And then Pixar came along and then we got this like 3D style of movies. Well, Disney didn't like ditch the old style of movies and only make the 3D Pixar style movies. Right. They still made Frozen and Moana and all these other movies long after Pixar came out. I think it's just going to be a different style of movie. I think people might go to, like, creators will make movies and it'll be a big deal with the fact that they use like, AI for it. And there'll be like its own genre of like, movies that used AI actors. But I still think people are going to want to go and see talented actors act out their craft. I still think that's going to always exist. I don't think AI is ever going to completely replace it to a point where Hollywood is only making AI generated stuff. I just. I don't see that happening. I think humans like watching other humans too much.

Yeah, I agree. I just don't know what piece of the pie that's going to be like. I don't know if it's going to be like, yeah, they want to see humans, but how many people is that? Like, is it like 5% of the market wants to see humans or is it like 90%? I'm not sure yet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is why I think it'll be like its own genre. I think you got people that will just refuse to see it. Like, I don't really go and watch rom coms in the theater. Right. But that doesn't mean there's not a market for them. Right. So I think.

Right.

I just think it'll. It'll find its own market. I mean, right now they've already done like screenings of AI films in theaters and stuff.

And.

And to be honest, I love AI. I don't really have any desire to go and sit through a fully AI generated movie right now. I just don't. The tech isn't good enough that I'm. For me to be that excited about sitting through that, you know, show me something that's really impressive in two or three minutes and I'm good. I don't need to sit through an hour and a half movie.

Yeah, yeah. I'm really excited for the idea of like, you know, movies where it's almost like when I was young, I would read those books, you know, where you can like make choices, you know. Did you see that? Yeah. And then Netflix did that with that. What was it? Bandersnatch or whatever it was called. Which was a cool experiment. I'm sure it was really hard for them to do. I'm like, I'm sure the cost produced that was quite high. And that's probably why they didn't continue doing it. But, like, with AI, you're going to be able to do that kind of stuff. I think that's going to be a huge genre. It's like you're watching the movie and it's like, oh, something just happened and, oh, yeah, I want to do this. And now it generates it. And when it gets to the point where it's actually the quality is good enough, where it's like, okay, it's 99% as good as a Hollywood movie, that's going to get so fun. Like, oh, yeah, I want the character to go. I want him to go pick up a bottle on the bar and smash it or whatever crazy thing I want to see happen. Just to be able to, like, say that out and then it happens. That's going to be so fun.

Yeah, it is. And the cool thing about that, that I think the movie studios will absolutely love, is the replay value of that content is huge. Because every single time you watch that. That film, it's going to be different.

Right.

Like, that's where I think gaming is going too. You know, we've talked about this in the past too. I think gaming, all the dialog in gaming eventually is going to be generative. They're going to have guidelines they need to stay within so they don't sort of spoil the rest of the game or anything for you. Right. You can't go to a character and say, hey, how does the game end? And it just tells you, because it's trained in the LLM. Right. Like, it's got to have some sort of guidelines. But I think gaming and the sort of choose your own adventure content on Netflix, I think both of those kinds of things are inevitable because for the studios that create it, it just like infinitely cranked up the replay value, the rewatch value of that content.

Yeah, yeah. If I think of it, like I've mentioned it before, but like Baldur's Gate 3, massive world with like a huge story and the characters are super interesting and you can make all these different choices, but in reality, the story is kind of mediocre. It's like, it's not great. Like, some of the Dungeons and Dragons stories are like, they're okay. Like, the world's awesome. And so I'm like, for sure, AI can probably do as good of a job on the story. And if you could just create a new world every time, being able to type that in and then it just produces all that that is going to be. People are going to be very addicted to these things.

Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, you already have so many games right now that are already procedurally generated, right, where the story doesn't really revolve around the world that you're in because the world's different every time. Right. Minecraft, Valheim, Fortnite. Some of the most popular games in the world are procedurally generated where every time you get dropped into a level, it's, you know, following a set of guidelines, but that level is a completely different level that most likely nobody else has seen before, you know, And I think AI is just going like. And that is what increases the replay value of a lot of these open world survival games is every time you play it, it's a totally different game than the last time you played it. AI just amplifies that, in my opinion.

Yeah, big time.

So, yeah, it's going to be really exciting times. We're both excited to see how it plays out and we're going to keep on making videos and podcasts and sharing the journey and showing what we're finding. So make sure that you like this video. If you found it helpful, subscribe to this channel if you aren't already, because we have some amazing guests coming up and a lot more fun, interesting discussions like this. And once again, thank you so much for tuning into the Next Wave podcast.

We.

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