Why Figma Make Might Be the Most Important AI Tool of 2025

What if your Figma design could become a working app just by asking? In this episode of the Next Wave, our guest is David Kosnik from Figma. He showed us a demo of Figma Make, a mind blowing new tool that turns your designs into live working code with nothing more than a prompt. Whether you're a designer, a founder, or just someone dreaming up ideas on the train, this is the next evolution in software creation. No more handoffs, no more designer versus dev debates. No more just collaborative multiplayer magic live in the browser.

David walks us through how Figma make.

Builds dashboards, games and real data powered apps on the fly. He shares figma's vision, lessons learned from their first AI rollout, and what the future of design and creation might look like in a world of AI native workflows.

If you want to see the future.

Of product design, this is it. But before we get started, you know, we spend a lot of time on these episodes and it would mean a lot to me if you could hit the subscribe button. It helps us grow the show and get on better guests to provide more value to you. So without further ado, let's jump in with David Kosnik from Figma.

Being a know it all used to.

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David, thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me. Super excited to be here.

Yeah, you know, kind of a crazy story. I've been a user and a fan of Figma for a long time. Actually, originally one of my designers, my previous startup Binded, he told me, you've got to try Figma out. And I was like, oh, okay, I'll try it. And I've loved it ever since. It's been awesome to see how big figma's become and how it's become kind of the standard. And then when AI started happening, I was like, oh God, I hope Figma's gonna be okay. I mean, just everyone's using figma now, all the designers, but what happens when AI starts to come into the picture? How is that going to change things? And then I saw Dylan introduce Figma make, you know, maybe a few months back and I was like, okay, I've got to get someone from Figma on the show. And also just to learn you know, how it works and like where you guys are planning to take Figma in the future? Yeah, I think. Do you want to start off like explaining what figma make is a little bit and then let's just show them how it works.

Yeah. And maybe before jumping into Make, I should mention. So Figma AI has been around a couple of years and we have a ton of AI features embedded in all of our products. So you can use them in figjam to summarize stickies and help you brainstorm inside of figma slides, you can generate images and rewrite text inside of figma sites, you can fill in content as you're building out your site. We've totally rebuilt our search engine to use multimodal embeddings so it can search by text, by frame or by image. But the thing we're most excited to talk about and focus on today is our biggest Net new gen AI native product, which we're calling Figma Make. Yeah, so figma make is a prompt to code tool that lets you get started with either natural language or a screenshot or a Figma frame. And it will write code for you and show you an interactive, playable version of the app that you can riff with. We've built it to be multiplayer first, so multiple people can be in here chatting alongside each other using code, visuals and language. So just to give you a quick sense of it, I'm going to use one of these starting prompts for a data dashboard. So you can see here the prompt is Create an intuitive and visually appealing dashboard that provides users with a whole bunch of more specific things. I'm going to go ahead and send this off. And you'll see here the model is starting to reason, so it's starting to think about, you know, what different components it's going to need. It's summarizing its action plan and now it's going ahead and starting to write some typescript files. Over here we're seeing the code starting to stream in from the model based on this prompt. There's actually a whole file structure of different components here of code that's been preloaded and generated by this. And sometimes it can take a couple minutes, depending on the complexity of the thing you're asking for. While this goes ahead and streams, I'm going to pull a little bit of Martha Stewart and swap this out for another version of the exact same prompt, which I already ran ahead of time. So this is the same prompt. You can see the whole set of reasoning it did, and it went ahead and Created the first version of this dashboard application. You'll see one thing it just immediately followed up with is, please note, Figma make is not designed for collecting personally identifiable information, but we can actually add a whole database to this to make the data real. Oh, wow. So we can go ahead, I'll show you that in a second. But we recognize for lots of applications, from prototypes to internal tools to straight up things you want to publish, being able to persist data, real data and connect to data sources is really important. So anyway, we'll look real quick at what it actually made. So it says, you know, here's the dashboard. You can see there's some interactivity and hover states on this chart here. A couple different charts showing different breakdowns. So this actually, you know, looks kind of nice. There's a hover state, there's a list of project entries. Some of this stuff is not fully.

Hooked up, but it gets you started, right? This seems like a great way to like prototype something.

Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, one of the things we've really seen too is that this brings a whole team together where, you know, we've really optimized for designers, which talk about more in a second, but everyone can come in here and start riffing and building on this simply with language. And so I'm just going to go ahead and create a new project here.

This is a test project using Supabase, which is a third party tool we integrate with that basically can host data. And so you can see here it stood up a database based on the underlying schema of the prompt of the project I was describing where it's going to store this data. And it's also starting to write now server code, not just running code that will be able to handle what happens when you click buttons and you want to add new things and store them. And so this is a really powerful piece of functionality to make these things long lived.

That's awesome. And so it just figured out the schema you needed and I guess if there's anything that you might have missed, it'll go and update the database and add new tables and everything like that.

Yeah, exactly. And this is something you can iterate on over time, say add new columns, add another table for users, not just for revenue, as an example, right here. And so yeah, this is a really powerful sort of building block to make even richer experiences. And so a lot of what we're starting to see people use this for is building richer sort of higher fidelity prototypes and interactions to prove out ideas and get more feedback on them. And so traditionally in the product design process, making mocks and Figma is great. Even making traditional prototypes in Figma, where you hook up noodles to connect workflows, is really powerful. But also it's kind of time consuming. And there's also a limit to what the fidelity is of those experiences. You know, there is no data stored on them. You know, they're not actually code backed, so you don't get the full fidelity of interactions. And so what we've seen is people using this both if they don't have the skillset to engage in Figma design as fully as other, you know, professional designers, and also for designers to pick up where Figma has traditionally ended. You know, a lot of designers don't know how to code that deeply. And so it feels like a superpower to get something where you can bring in your designs and keep going.

Yeah, totally. I mean, like, I'm an okay designer and an okay coder. I'm not amazing at either one. And I've always like, when I use Figma, I was like, okay, you know, I spent a lot of time making something beautiful and then to go actually code it, oh my God, it's a lot of work. And usually when I go code it, I end up getting lazy and it looks slightly different. Like, okay, that's good enough, that's close enough. So I was like, if I could actually get my beautiful design and like press a button in the future and then be able to tweak it in AI, that would be amazing.

Totally, 100%. So while this is chugging on the database piece, which you can imagine, I just wanted to show sort of a couple other pieces. So maybe just to pause the database example to give you a sense of how this works with design systems. We know design systems are really important for teams. They create consistency for users and what to expect out of the product. And so they allow you to have a next level of consistency.

I'm super curious about how does the design system work with this? So I may not even know the full functionality of like regular Figma, because I know you can like save colors and things like that. And fonts.

Yeah.

Is it beyond that? Can you like save your button types and all kind of things like that?

Yeah, great question. So basically taking your design systems in Figma, which have tokens and variables, they have, you know, colors, fonts, themes, and converting that into something that can be used basically as an input to this generation. And so actually over here I did have an example where I converted the same output into the Figma simple design system, which we've open sourced and using those set of stylings instead. So you can see it's like now using this sort of Figma branded aesthetic. And we're excited to do over time, much more here. A lot of requests to use my literal components and I can show you the workflows we have for those today as well.

Yeah, that seems powerful. I've been using Claude Code and Factory both a lot more to create, you know, prototypes and just play around. And, you know, one thing is like, getting them to actually follow design systems. Like, the best thing I figured out is like, you can kind of like map out part of your design system in like a markdown file or something and hand to them. But then it keeps forgetting. So if you had something just directly in figma, it seems better to me.

Totally. Yeah. And I should mention as well, like, you know, people are used to riffing and editing in Figma, so it's not just in prompts. You know, you can use this kind of magic pointer tool and starts to go ahead and just riff on things.

In line and you can do that with your team. There is the multiplayer aspect of this.

Yeah, exactly. So I can go ahead and share this file and everyone sees the same thing, just like you expect from Figma design. And actually multiple people can chat. So you see my avatar here in a multiplayer file, you'll see other people's avatars with their prompts. And something we've invested a lot in is making that work across modalities. So if someone makes changes visually here versus via prompts or even versus via code, it all plumbs through to everyone else. And so we want this to be a surface where an engineer can come and riff with the PM and the designer and make their own version on like. Okay, here's how exactly this should feel.

And how does the multiplayer work with the prompting? Like, I assume it's one person prompting at a time and then like what everyone kind of sees, like, oh, okay, it's. I mean, they just see it happening and they had to wait, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, good question. Basically, what happens while a prompt is running is that, you know, you get a loading state and you can pause it to run a new one. And so everyone gets that same experience. You can either like, wait for the thing that's been running to finish running, or you can kill someone stuff for you. And we found that works pretty well so far. And, you know, if. If I want to start riffing on this, I could have like an inline contextual prompt for it. But I could also like jump on over and see exactly the piece of code that corresponds to this and start changing that directly as well there, if I have that context.

You know, I grew up on irc. For me seeing this, I'm like imagining some crazy collaborative project where everyone's just like messing around and making something together and like just sharing the link online would be fun. But yeah, I can see how teams could actually get real use out of this.

So yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that's been the magic of figma always is. Like Figma was born on the web, it was multiplayer first. It's just sharing a link. I think there are starting to be more and more of these prompt to code tools, but I think we have put a ton of effort in to making this work really well with your team across different Personas and modalities.

Yeah. I'm curious though. Obviously Lovable has been taking off and then there's V0 and there's a few different ones. So I mean some of the functionality looks similar, but you know, what's the main difference is? The main difference is it's more like designer first, that you can actually kind of get in there and tinker with the designs and things like that.

You know, I'd say first and foremost, this whole category is really early.

Yeah.

You know, like we talk about the whole space like none of these things existed like a year ago. It's like this whole space is getting figured out right now, which is really exciting. And a lot of that is, you know, building on the new capabilities of these models and trying to figure out the workflows that make sense. And so I'd say right now we've invested a ton in multiplayer as the sort of core thing you come to love and expect from figma and a lot on Interop with the rest of figma. Say you have a mock. You're trying to build a sort of interactive visualizer for a solar system. This is a traditional Figma layer just from Figma design. I'm going to literally hit copy paste on this thing and go over here and say make this interactive. And what you'll notice here is like there's a little Figma icon here. Like this is not actually just a screenshot. This is all of the rich structured data that comes over with this. It's every layer name, it's every token, every variable, every property. And we have done a ton of work on quality to be the best place at generating high fidelity results from designs. As a starting point. And we've seen a really high percentage of our users start with designs as well. And we've optimized for that. You know, even in the blank prompt box, we say at the top, like, put your design in here. And so I'd say one of the things we've really focused on is taking the workflows designers already have in Figma and letting it go much further to express things at a higher fidelity through code, through interactivity, in a way that's much lower effort than people have had before.

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When I think about Figma, you know, when it was first suggested I use it, I used to use Photoshop back then. I still use it a little bit. But you know, using Photoshop to create, to design a website is a pain. Like just dealing with all different layers. There's a lot more manual work to do, small little changes. And then you get into Figma, it's like, oh, everything's easy to move around and, and then not only that, but then like, you know, you guys started giving all the like code or you give like the CSS rules and all that kind of stuff you can use. And so obviously this is like a natural evolution, like, well, okay, not just give you the rules because then if you don't know how to code, that's hard to know what to do with. But now literally just create the code for the designer.

Totally. Yeah. And so here, this example finished cranking. So this was going to bring in a mock that had different itemized planets or the solar system. And you can see based on literally make this interactive as the prompt and the underlying structure of the design that we brought in it inferred that each of these different planets is its own entity moving at different speeds. They move around the circles. It created this functional speed scrubber that works. If I click on one of these planets, there's an overlay that comes out.

Did it know that because of the layer names or did it actually look at a picture or how did it know that? How did it infer that?

Yeah, that's right. So if I go back to the original design here, I can drill down a bit and you can see each of these different planets has been sort of itemized with a planet name. So like Uranus orbit along with the arc that it takes. And so we found this kind of context is incredibly helpful for the model. And so you take a random screenshot and give it to any of these tools, they'll do okay, especially if you could write a longer prompt. But to the point of like, where is Figma different? Is like Figma is already the workflow design teams, product teams are using to articulate design intent, to detail out specific workflows. And that data is super, super valuable to models and they can pick up so much context from that to make the output really, really good with a lot less effort.

Makes sense. It feels like you guys have done a good job. When I was thinking about Figma doing AI, I was like, well, right now, at least from like Twitter discourse, I know Twitter is kind of a bubble, but you know, it feels like the design community is very passionate about things. And in terms of AI right now, you know, there definitely been some coordinate like the design community that's kind of anti AI or at least that's what I've been seeing on Twitter. And it feels like you guys are kind of doing a great job of making it clear like, hey, this is not replacing you. I mean like if I was a full time designer, this is amazing because like for me, whether you're designing or coding, you know, it is the art of creating things, right? You're creating things out of nothing. And now the idea that you could be a designer and not know how to code and you created something out of your brain and turned into a real design and then now you turn it to a real product. That's just like, that's amazing. I don't think most people realize how magical that is.

100%. Yeah, it's been totally awe inspiring and I think we've been blown away by just how much people can make with this. And so maybe just to finish the demo section with a couple fun examples from real customers. This is one of a map and this looks a lot like a mock. And I think traditionally a designer might end here, but you can actually use this map and that's one prompt to add that level of interactivity and imagine the feedback you're going to get in a user study around exactly how this works to find Coffee shops based on this. Another fun one. This was for a conference collecting all of the different iconography and the logos for a team that was planning the conference. And so it became a little bit of like their micro site for the design system of the conference that they all put together in Figma and published and sort of added all this wraparound with Figma Make. That is so cool. We've seen internal tools start to really take off as well. And so this was a really fun one of like a color palette generator that someone on a design team built to make it much easier to get the right sort of compliant colors with the exact mixes and different scenarios. And like this is the kind of thing that is so much more powerful as an app that you can explore and send around relative to like a static thing. And you never would have gotten a, you know, internal tools team to fund. Right. But now someone can actually like go ahead and post their team because they.

Don'T have to wait. Right. They just have the idea and they design it and then. And then it makes it totally.

And the last one, like, I've just been blown away by stuff we didn't optimize for, you know, based on how good these underlying models are. And so like people have built full on 3D video games in this, which is like kind of insane. Here's one that someone built which is. I haven't actually even finished this game. There's like a whole different world, a bunch of different spells. There's like creatures that are kind of come out and start going after me. I'm like, wow, this is insane that like, you know, literally just through prompting you're able to get to this level of expression.

You should make a, like an old school RPG with this. I used to play EveryQuest. That's actually how my career got started.

Yeah.

Yeah, it reminds me of playing EveryQuest and like kiting mobs and like you got to do a spell and you got to run a little bit, then they're still coming at you.

Yeah. Someone actually recreated Doom. Oh, cool. Which was pretty wild.

Very. So I'm curious, like, who is the user of Figma Make? Is it going to be primarily designers or are you guys trying to reach out to people beyond designers as well? Because I definitely see how this becomes a superpower for designers. I am curious, you know, how other people outside of design would use this or how they get value out of it if they're not a designer or if you guys don't care about that, you're just serving designers only. And if other people use it, that's great.

Yeah, yeah, great question. Yeah, we optimize for designers to start and so we've done a lot to, as I mentioned, bring over that context from Figma design, but also make this a great place for whole product design engineering teams to work together. And so the fact that code is there and you can change that, the fact that you have a pointer and can directly change different aspects of the experience, all of these have been designed so that your designer, your pm, your engineer can use this as a collaborative multiplayer surface to iterate on what the product experience should feel like together, which is what Figma's been great at historically as well. And so that's definitely been the core right now, I'd say we've started with prototyping as a hero scenario and we've been surprised how blurry the line is between what is a prototype and what is production. And as soon as you can publish and start sharing with users and getting feedback and start using code libraries to hook it up to a real backend to storing data. We've seen people pitch VCs and get funding on things that they built in Figma make without anyone else involved with real users using it.

Yeah.

Wow. And so I think we've been just totally blown away at the breadth of cases people are already using it for. And maybe to share one more example, we did a ton of dogfooding on this before it went live. It was really helpful in iterating on quality. We generally have a dogfooding oriented culture at figma, but this was over the top that we called it the Great Figma Bake Off. And we had like 20 different meeting scheduled for the whole company in every time zone where people from the team would be there to answer questions or troubleshoot or help you work with bugs. We had a competition like what were the coolest things people made? And all sorts of people made inspiring things. And I think one of the coolest ones for me was someone on the HR team who had zero design background, zero technical background. They used Workday as their source of truth for people data. They found a Workday API and they built a game that uses the real people data of the company that shows four faces and four names and you had to guess who is who. And it became viral within the company of people playing this game and trying to get to know their colleagues. That's crazy. And I was like, wow, this is something that no one would have funded as an intel performance rapper.

What the hell are you talking about? Right. That's why I pitched that. Right. Yeah, let's go spend resources on this. Totally.

And it's like, you know, it's a Persona we didn't optimize for. Like, we didn't build Figma make for HR people.

Right.

But it's just been totally inspiring to see, you know, how accessible it has made the process for everyone.

It's awesome. My friend who used to run a design agency in San Francisco, just imagining, you know, for him, like, you know, when you're pitching new clients, if he could have just like designed things and then just had a prototype there, that's just nuts. Right. Compared to like, oh, here's a design, like, here's a prototype that works, you know, that's just totally. I still want to go back to what I said previously about like, if you guys had any backlash on this from designers, because I assume you guys got some. I think I saw some online a little bit when it first got announced, but I assume, you know, if I was a designer, even if I didn't like AI, maybe at first I'd be like, oh, this sucks. It's AI. And then I'm start using it in my day to day work and it's like, oh, it's making my life so much better. So like, how can you keep hating it? Is that kind of how it went?

Yeah, I'd say just to zoom out from the story of MAKE to the story of figma AI, we shipped stuff last year at config 2024 we shipped a feature called Make Designs, which was our very first attempt at a prompt to design product inside of Figma Design. And so you could say, make me a landing page for xyz and you would create it not as a code backed prototype, but as native Figma frames. And we messed up in a bunch of ways on that. We messed up explaining how it worked. And so there was confusion on that it used off the shelf models and templ that it customized. And it was funny. We had called the project internally, first draft and the whole point of it was to solve the blank canvas problem, get you started, make it so that we're doing your laundry and your chores and you're doing the creative part as a product design team. And I think Make Designs, even in the name implied much more than that. We're going to do the whole thing for you, which is not, yeah, designer.

You don't need to do any design, just we'll do it for you.

Totally. And like, you know, we, we are a design company. We are for designers. And so I think it was definitely a big learning and like how we talk about these things and what they're for. And I think with Make, I think what we did right was we started with things that designers have trouble with and they can't do, which is getting into the code layer. And so we sort of start at the end of the process where a lot of people do get stuck today with the current set of tools. I think it felt like something net new as opposed to automating parts of the process that I have a lot of opinions, expertise, taste around, which was not our original intention, but easy to come across wrong. I think that was definitely a big learning for us in general as a company that prides itself on being advocates for design as a function and champions of designers is like making it really, really clear that this is kind of trying to give you new superpowers.

I am curious, like, where does Figma and Figma make, where does this go? Like in three to five years, how does this work? Like if you're a designer.

Yeah. I can't make forward looking statements.

Why?

I have two kids. I have a six year old and a three year old and my six year old over the last year has started playing iPad games. He's like addicted to Duolingo. He's like a daily active user. That's awesome. Learning math and chess and that kind of stuff. And he started using make before we launched and I was like curious to see as a very much not our target Persona, like how understandable would it be? And he is like hooked. Like he will beg me to spend more time on make and you know, walking home from school or you know, at the grocery store running errands, he'll be like, I had an idea for a new one. Daddy. Oh, that's so cool. Like you know, he's made like six games now and he'll sometimes come home from school with like a sketch of like a map or a level and he's like, take a picture of this. Like we should use this as a starting point. Oh man. And honestly, it is like mind blowing and I'm so jealous.

Yeah. Imagine being a kid, like you have any idea, like, yeah, I can actually make this now. The AI will help me make it. I have an 11 year old son, he grew up in San Francisco, run a bunch of like tech and game industry, like executives and people like that when he was little. And so you got to see all this kind of creative world there, right? Like artists and things like that. We used to have like artist parties where we draw on the walls and he'd be there with artists drawing on the wall. But now we live in Japan, you know, Japan's great, but he's no longer in that kind of environment. I have been showing him things like replit. I showed him repl it. He loved that. Like he made like a little website with that, but the websites were really ugly. So I was like, okay, you know, and he didn't really like how ugly it was, which I think Replit and those guys have gotten a little bit better. But I think some like Figma make where he could actually like go in and tweak the design itself too. Would be awesome. For him to be able to see the whole process of making it look good and then actually shipping it would be incredible.

Yeah, I love his feedback and bug reports and requests.

Okay, I'll get them to you.

I think to your question on what's the future look like five years from now? I think it's like making the path from idea to production, idea to reality so much shorter. And seeing even game toy examples with my son makes me realize the way people think about the workflow, the way you think about what's possible, the way you explore ideas is going to be totally different. And I think in this new world, design is even more important than it has been. And design isn't just pixels. It's empathy for users, it's understanding of your target audience, it's knowledge of current workflows and where they fall short. It's exploring the whole solution space and thinking deeply about each of the nodes that you might not have had time to in the old world. It's sending down every animation and interaction of the experience.

One of the things I'm really excited about in that future is software is going to get frickin awesome. Everything is so much more thought through, so much more explored. Every fit and finish is going to be better. And by the way, there's going to be a lot of low quality software too.

Yeah, totally.

Like there's just going to be more software than has ever been made.

It's like in the early days, the web. That's why I've said in the podcast before now, grip on Iris. Like the web used to be like fun, you know. Yeah, it was messy, it was, you know, it's total mess. But it was easy to get in there just like tinker and make websites and now you don't really see that anymore. So I'm hoping that stuff like Figma brings that back where like yeah, the web becomes fun again because people can just have ideas and just easily make stuff.

Totally. Yeah. I think we'll see like, you know, even more long tail personalized experiences for different schools and communities and like people building stuff for themselves and the stuff that's built for everyone being even more sophisticated and helpful in a wider range of scenarios.

I think you'll probably see some really interesting experiments around collaborative creation of things too. I think you'll see communities actually creating new kinds of projects and stuff together would be fun.

Totally cool.

So this is a total theoretical scenario. So imagine you had a time machine and you're in a New York time machine. You get out, it's 2050. What's different? Is anything different? Does it look the same? Is it still the same bagels and pizza? Is there other stuff going on in New York or what's going on?

I mean, New York bagels and pizza are not going anywhere.

Hopefully.

Honestly, 2050 is so far like 10 years, let alone that far is like, man, I have aspirations. There's whole conferences on this stuff and it's very hard to predict everything. Right.

It's something I like to riff on and let's hear what people say.

It's a great prompt. I mean, stuff I'm like personally excited about. Waymo's coming to New York. Figuring out how my kids get to playdates and stuff is hard. I'm excited for AI to get to a level of trust and safety and rollout to like the point where getting around in the world is like a solved problem. And like that seems like it's happening, which is super exciting. Like Waymo is fantastic. Health is really hard. I personally have celiac disease and was diagnosed about two years ago and it's been a whole learning journey about, you know, what can I eat and what are my sensitivities and so forth. And lots of blood tests and follow ups. And you know, Even for me, ChatGPT has been like so helpful in understanding what the terminology means and all of that. And I think in broader access to that level of expertise with verifiable trust and awareness is going to be huge for society. And just like people understanding what's happening in their lives and things that are really core. Yeah. From health to finance to dealing with the insurance because their house burned down, to all of those kind of core fundamental things that are like anxiety provoking, complicated and scary. And it's hard to get experts who actually understand the whole system. And so I think that's going to be like incredibly meaningful in Ways that are like hard to really internalize still. And then there's like the really out there stuff of like, are we all going to have neural links or glasses on our faces that like understand the world around us and are chatting with us? Are we going to have moon colonies by then? Is everyone going to be living longer? I hope all those things are true. And I'm an optimist and a tech futurist, but you get into singularity theory type questions at that point. Yeah.

Once you approach the singularity, all bets are off. Who knows what the hell happens, Right? Yeah. The health thing, that's something I think about a lot. Because if you think about a doctor, they go to school for eight years or whatever it is, a lot of it's about reading a lot of books and trying to retain as much of that knowledge as possible. And maybe if you're lucky, they retain 5% of the knowledge or something and over time they get more expertise by dealing with patients. But obviously AI could take in all that knowledge and over time actually understand all that we've learned and then start expanding upon that and then combine that with also collecting more data on us individually. Even down the lowest level possible. It seems like AI will be able to understand us in the future. Eventually we will have AI that like, okay, Nathan, what's going on with your body right now? There's could be things totally unexpected like, oh, some cancer started for this reason and, and then we can kind of solve it this way. That sounds like sci fi for people. But I really strongly believe that's coming. It may take like 20 or 30 years, hopefully it's more like 10, but that's going to be such a game changer for people.

Yeah, I'd say also you know, just on the, you know, the role of AI in these, in the workforce as well, you know, I think we'll see as it continues to evolve and capabilities come out. I think in every sort of industrial breakthrough and revolution there's been concerns about what it means. And ultimately people have learned new skills and been even more productive on things that are even more meaningful. And so I'm personally really optimistic and excited and I think seeing people like my son start to use figma make and tools like it in totally new ways makes me feel like there's just new frontiers to work on and what work means will change.

Yeah, as a designer, I think when we have robots building things, I mean being a designer is going to be, it's going to change. Maybe almost like an architect, you're literally Designing new buildings on the moon or Mars or wherever we go. And a designer will be able to actually come up with things. Maybe AI assisted, maybe they do it themselves, whatever. Probably a combination. And then the things become real things and digital things. It's going to be such a crazy time to be alive.

Totally. Yeah. I can't wait for that.

Cool, man. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we got off here?

Honestly, I was kind of curious. Your hot takes too. You've tried a lot of these tools. What's your sense of where the market's going, how you see Figma fitting into it?

So I've only played with Figma make a little bit. Quite honestly, I played with it yesterday. I like to have people on and, like, try to have a real response to what they're showing me as possible. Versus, like, yeah, I've actually tried all of this. I know everything you're doing and now I'm faking and pretending like I don't know what's going on or like I'm learning something new, but I play with it a little bit. Exactly what I was hoping it was. Especially the fact that you can just like, like, import the design in and have, like, start from the design, because I feel like the market, like, you know, what lovable is doing, it's great. I do feel like it's saturated. There's going to be. There's a lot of players in that space. So I think, you know, I've also had on Matan, the founder of Factory, who's competitive with Devin and like, Devin and Factory. I think that's interesting. That's like a different side where it's. It's all agents and it's more hardcore and like the Enterprise encoding. And so, like, it makes sense that you're not competing directly with level or V0. You're doing something more for designers. And so I think you guys are on the right path. You know, it definitely seems like way better than what you guys announced in 2024, quite honestly, I remember seeing that and like, O is, you know, it's not. I don't know, it's. It's kind of confusing and I can see why designers didn't like it. Figma make seems like the right path. Like, this is something that gives designers superpowers. I, you know, I haven't played around with the product enough to give you, like, honest feedback. Like, oh, it's amazing and it all works and. But at least conceptually, and from what I've seen, the early version of it it looks great.

Cool. Well, yeah, I appreciate any candid feedback at any point.

Yeah, I'll try to play with it more.

You know, as I said, we're just getting started, you know, in general in AI in this market and I think at FIGMA AI as well. And we have a lot of really exciting stuff coming and we're very focused on so any and all feedback from you, your listeners. Really excited for and yeah, stay tuned for some fun stuff ahead. Awesome.

It's been great having you on here. Is there anywhere like people can find you online? Are you active on Twitter, on LinkedIn or anywhere like that?

Yeah, I'm on Twitter and LinkedIn. David Kosnik K O S S N I C K Cool. And yeah, thank you for having me on. This was super fun. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Sam.