Signs they are a narcissist

Have you ever found yourself looking back at a relationship and asking, how did I miss that? Where maybe in hindsight you see tactics of manipulation or signs of grandiose or covert narcissism, but at the time, you had no idea. Well, today I have a different style of video. To help you navigate these questions, you'll get a behind the scenes view of a live one to one coaching call with Alex, who has just come to the startling realization that you that he had been dating a narcissist. Through this coaching session, we'll discuss not only the red flags that we typically miss, but why we miss them in the first place. The patterns that we have from the past that make us attractive to narcissists. And most importantly, I'll show you how to stop repeating these patterns so you can finally have the relationship you truly deserve. In my experience, there's usually a pattern with the person not saying that the person who attracts the narcissist has anything wrong with them. There is a typical pattern within how you are, how you act, how you talk. And so for me, dating wasn't the first one. I didn't know that though. I did not know that until at least 40 years old. So what, what was true was that I fit a certain pattern. So let me kind of explain the pattern. I was kind, I was agreeable, I was generous, I was willing to work hard for the person. And, and I would give off those kind of signals of, you know, wanting to please them, wanting to serve and wanting to be nice to them. So when you look at yourself, do you see anything like that?

Yeah, I mean, I do. I try to be impeccable with my word. I do what I say I'm going to do. Like my word means something. And then, yeah, I'm honest, I'm loyal, I try to be generous. Like, I've tried to actually cultivate these things because to me, in my mind, I think that they're good qualities and they're things that I want to be with people that, that I'm close with or people that I care about and just in general too. But yeah, I mean, I would agree with, I would agree with that assessment for sure.

Yeah. So that's. So that's kind of the problem. And that's, that's the bulk of the coaching that I do is really helping people understand all those things that are noble and virtuous and have really created a great life for you, unfortunately, make you a giant target for people who want to use you and manipulate you. So there's a Balance about being unmanipulatable and also generous, you know, and not, not someone who is boundaryless and not someone who's generous to a fault, not someone who's loyal to a fault. So. So that's kind of the striking thing. And I work with all nice people. I mean really, really kind, high functioning, very successful achievers. And these are the people that are targeted. And it is because when you look bright and shiny and also they can check to see are you usable. Are you going to do what I say? Can I manipulate you? Can I make you feel a little bit guilty and make you do a thing like that is kind of where it starts.

Yeah, yeah, I can see that happening. I can see that. I mean that's when somebody is, you know, does this. These types of things. To me I do have the capacity, I have the capacity for whatever like to be. To set boundaries or whatever. And I attempted to.

So tell me about how you tried to set a boundary and in. If we can get really specific about the kind of scenario or the words you use. Because I think that's where that's. It's just such a key part of this, of why it doesn't work or why that one worked and that one didn't.

Like for example, there would be just, you know, super silly stuff where it was like around that, that, like I said before, that pattern that would happen about once a month or once every couple months. And then something silly about the dishes, right? The dishes aren't clean. So she feels unappreciated because the dishes aren't clean. And I'm just telling her like, look, I, I do the dishes like all the time. I do them literally every day. I've done them every day this week. And so for you tell coming to me, telling me that I never do the dishes, that's just not true. And then just she's just in a, you know, all this, you know, emotional stuff coming out from her right against me, attacking me. And so I straight told her, and I had told her this a few times where it's like, look like if this is really how you feel, if this is really this big of an issue for you, then maybe we need to figure out like a different living situation.

So tell me about what it. Because a lot of people are going to get, you know, they're going to be neat freaks or whatever and they're not narcissists. So what is it about this that you feel does kind of go or you know, in your personal experience felt like a narcissist trap.

Just like the level of emotion and the level of attack on me.

And let me, let me ask you a little bit. Sorry to cut you off. Let me ask you a little bit differently. So when you're dealing with a narcissist, you're going to get that kind of a, kind of an argument for control and domination where another person, like, I am a total neat freak. I don't like stuff around. I am not trying to control others or dominate others. I would like people to be clean, you know, so it can be controlling but not dominating. It can be controlling but not manipulative. So you can be emotional and not be trying to use your emotion to get somebody to behave in a certain way. It's, it's when it crosses over into that area that, that, that's kind of the red flag zone. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I mean, that's just one example. But I, I would say that it, it was, it is a valid example because she would use it to try to guilt me and then to try to control me.

I mean, there you go. That's what we're looking for.

Yeah.

Tell me how the guilting you worked on you. Why did that work?

Well, it. Essentially, she's trying to make me feel like, ashamed of the fact that I'm not. That I didn't do these dishes. She's trying to like, plant this emotion of guilt and shame onto me that I haven't been doing enough and I'm not showing up and not caring enough about the relationship. And she's making it mean all these different things that literally some dishes in the sink for, I think any, for Norm, any, for any normal person can just be a simple conversation that's like, hey, like whenever you get a chance, if you could, if you could do those, like, that would be awesome. Right? I mean. Or, you know, hey, I'm gonna do this, like, and, and then, and so sometimes there would be normal conversations like that, but it would be, like I said, this pattern where this would happen around, around that type of frequency, either once a month, once every month and a half, something like that.

Right. So do you know the cycle of abuse? The cycle of abuse and how that works? Kind of how you. Okay, so there's a cycle of all kinds of abuse where there's abuse and it gets pretty toxic. And then it's kind of like the tipping point. The person is afraid you're going to leave, so then they behave until they think they've got you back under control, and then they start to abuse so when you're saying it was this cyclical thing that that's pretty common and it's not even really. I don't, I don't think they even are, you know, really recognizing that they're on an abusive pattern in that way, other than they're feeling confident that they have a certain amount of control or, or a certain amount of domination around something. But as soon as they feel like you're kind of not behaving, then they're going to escalate. And then when you get too far up here feeling powerful and pushing back, then they cool it off and try to keep you around. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does make sense. And like, again, for me, since I haven't been in that close relationship with a woman for that period of time, like, I, I kind of just attributed part of it to being. Because she would also say, like, oh, yeah, you know, it's because of my hormones or because of this. And so, like, that's where I kind of got lost for me that this was like an intentional perhaps thing that was going on at this cycle.

Yeah. So I think that's a really valid point. And I know people that are going to listen to this are the roles might be reversed. So in. Narcissists are going to use whatever they have going on for them. If they are. Have some sort of disability, they will use that as their reason. If they're sick, they'll use that as their reason. If they're female, they'll use whatever they think is going to work. If they're male, they're using a different thing. So it's really. When you're trying to look at, like, what was that? What did I just see? What did I just witness? You know, I don't even know that it's important, you know, to label it narcissism. It's more important to see what was that pattern, how do I not fall back into that and how do I spot it? So for me, the key thing there is using what she was presenting as a vulnerability as a weapon against you. And that is super toxic. And it doesn't matter if you're a narcissist or not, or if you're just a plain old manipulative girlfriend, like that is what it is. Or, and, and, and likewise. So for a lot of people, they use their financial hardship, like in that covert way, you know, oh, you know, I just need help. Or it's that, that moment that you're kind of feeling a little bit of pity for them and you're feeling sorry for them and allowing unreasonable behavior.

Yeah, exactly. And it made it the way that it was framed up like that. It made me excuse it much more than I should have.

Yes.

And so that was where. That's where the big problem was. I mean, I could give you other examples too, is like we would be at the gym and then you know, just these, all these accusations of me, like, looking at other women when I'm really not, like, I'm really just kind of minding my own business. Like if somebody walks in front of me or is in my field of vision, I'm just like, see them or whatever. But there was, it wasn't anything like what these accusations were.

Yes.

And then that would, that would again, try to shame me, guilt me, try and trying to use it to say that, you know, I sense essentially that I'm not a good man or that I'm not a good, you know, partner, because I'm doing these things. And, and for those things, it's just like, it's so out of left field that I'm just like, yeah, like, and, and, and granted, you know, that her attacking me in that way, like, caused me to get defensive because I'm just like, yeah, like, I wasn't doing that. But there's probably a better way that I could handle that in the future. I'm curious what your thoughts are, but when you're basically getting attacked or accused of something that you don't feel like you did anything wrong, but you still don't want to be understanding of the person. I don't know, like, what your thoughts.

Are on that, but yeah, that's a, that's a good question. So for me, because I was raised by narcissists, I wouldn't be defensive there. I would have just felt guilty, like, oh, I did something wrong. Not that I thought, oh, I was looking at someone, but something I did made him mad or something I'm not making him happy enough or, or now he's upset at me and I have to fix it. So it more went into that very hyper vigilant space where I'm all eyes are on him, trying to figure out, like, how do I make this better? You actually seem more like you've got a head on your shoulders. You're more grounded in reality. I was not, I was totally trained to not have a self and to not have my own feelings and to believe anything that anybody said all the time. And it's hard to imagine that. But that's. That is where you get to after Years and years of being with narcissists or raised by them because they are teaching you that your feelings don't matter. My feelings matter. Right.

Yeah.

Your experience doesn't matter. It's my experience that matters. Doesn't matter. If you think you were looking at her. What I saw upset me, and it's your fault. So that's more how it goes. But over years and years and years, you kind of start to lose, like, what actually happened.

Yeah.

So the. The fact that you were defensive is. Is good because somewhere in you, you knew that this isn't right. Right. Like, this isn't what I should be doing.

Yeah. And then that example. That's an example of just, like, a red flag. That is just like. I'm just like. Because in my mind, I'm like, she's just. She's being crazy. I didn't say that to her, but she's being, like, the level and depth of insecurity. For her to come and attack me in a way like that when I wasn't even doing what she's saying. Yeah. Is out. Is abnormal. Is for sure. Like, you know, and so. But I'm curious.

So let me just kind of qualify that, because it. There's a lot of reasons why someone might do that. What? There's, you know, ptsd, there's trauma responses. There's people that, for whatever reason, they're anxious. They're anxious, attached, so they might be like, oh, you're gonna leave me, or, oh, you're looking at someone else, or that maybe they got cheated on before. So. So I just want to make sure that we kind of separate, like, what happened there with you is different than that. And. And I can show you a little bit of why that's different. So what you're looking for when you're dating someone or when you're like, I might be with someone, that's not good. You're looking for a pattern of. They need to control me and dominate me and not just control what I do, but control me by telling me what I did and how I should feel about what I did and what I should be doing better to be caring for them rather than myself. So a reasonable person who's just insecure is like, oh, you know, that girl was so cute at the gym. And you were looking at her and you say, oh, yeah, well, she was pretty, or whatever. And. And then you can talk about it and be like, you know, I hear that you're insecure, or I'm insecure, or whatever. And you can work through that. When you're dealing with this kind of toxicity, it is more, I am using this as a weapon to guilt you, shame you, make you feel small and make you want to serve me. Really is. At the end of the day, do my video.

I want to make that distinction as well. Because, yeah, think you're right. If it was just. And that's where maybe I didn't see what was going on because, like, in my mind, I'm like, this person is crazy, crazy insecure. But like you said, if it was insecurity, they would probably bring it up in a more kind of softer manner. Like, hey, like, I noticed that you were looking at, like, whatever. That's what they thought that I was doing. But with hers, it was like a vicious attack. And it was like a stonewalling, like, you know, arms crossed, like, Like, I can't, you know, just like this basically this like, malicious type energy toward me.

Right.

And so I don't know how to describe it really, but it's like, it's kind of just, again, the blame, like the. The attacking the.

Yes.

Like, I'm. I'm a bad. Basically, I'm a bad person. Like that. Because I saw you, like, looking at these other women or what. Or whatever. That's the flavor of the day in this example. Right? But yeah, that's how it would come up with, no matter what. I mean, it would be about, like, going out too. Going out to hang out with my friends and again, that type of thing, that type of shaming to the point where he's like on the floor sobbing in tears because she's twisted my words to say that I'm trying to go out and, you know, pick up other women because I'll get a drink with my friend, which is, you know, it's a completely different thing. Right. And then using. Using my, like, twisting the words with the word salad, too, to go and ask other people and then bring it back to me and say, oh, my boyfriend wants to go to the club and. And pick up girls or something and then go club without me. And they were like. And yeah, everyone said that that was messed up. And I'm like, okay, well, that's never what I said. So you're just like going out there and getting all these opinions of people for something that I never even. You know what I mean? So, like, yeah, yeah, I mean that it would always be like that type of energy of what I'm talking about. And when things were good, they were fine. We'd have normal. More normal conversations. But when this. When she got into this emotional, like, whatever triggered her, when she got triggered by whatever it was, it would become this whole nother level of things. And then, yeah, the tears would come out or, you know, yelling or. Or just don't like that. All the. All the. Across the board with all that type of behavior, whatever.

Right.

Yeah.

So let's. Let's look at that because this is what keeps you on the hook, right? Otherwise you would have been gone right then and walked out and be like, sia. So what keeps you on the hook is the irregularity of this pattern. Like, you're saying, sometimes she's just nice and sometimes she's like this. Now, why. Why that's important to look at is when you look back at the nice times, you might start seeing a pattern of, oh, I was doing what she wanted, and when I didn't do what she wanted, this is what I got. But it wasn't that she was nice and not nice. It was, you behaved or you didn't behave to her.

Rules.

Can you tell me, like, the very first time, when you look back, like, what was the very first red flag that you missed?

You think, well, it was probably something small, just, like, irritability to criticism. Yeah, that wouldn't really count as one of these bigger things that I'm mentioning. But that was the first kind of red flag that I noticed, was just like, me telling her to do something or be careful because she, like, drove over a curb, and then she's like, just don't tell me what to do. Like, don't tell me that. Don't tell me that. After I just did something for the most part, the first three months of dating, everything was good. Everything was perfect. We hadn't, like, moved in together or anything. I had an Airbnb at the time, and my Airbnb ran out. And then when my Airbnb ran out, I was like, yeah, like, I'm probably gonna be heading out of town or whatever. But then she was like, oh, well, just come stay with me. So I go over to stay with her. And again, like, the first couple months of me staying with her, like, she's cooking for me all the time. She's doing, like, all this stuff that is really nice. And so it kind of just like, I feel like, damn, like this girl really likes me a lot. So this is really. I'm like, this is really fun. Like, we're having a good time hanging out with each other. But, you know, there was a time actually during that, when I first started staying at her place where she, like, said, I love you, and then she was trying to get me to pay it back, and I was just like, well, you know, I'll say it back like, when I feel like it's true, but I don't want to, like, jump the gun on this type of thing.

And have you heard the. The term love bombing? Have you learned about that?

Yep, Yep, I have heard that. And I mean, it makes a lot of sense considering everything that happened towards the beginning of the. Of the relationship. But then again, like, there are a lot of things that I see online that it wasn't that ramped up with this particular person. Like. Like, I see it with other people. And maybe that's because she had an idea that I wasn't going to go for that either.

Well, it depends. So if it's a grandiose pattern, it's going to be over the top. I mean, like, over the top. If it's covert, it's going to be pretty. It. It's going to be kind of like an infatuation feel.

Yeah, yeah.

The thing. Yeah. So the thing that I just hearing this whole pattern and why I think it's so interesting and important to watch videos and learn what you're dealing with. Like, for me, I just love the puzzle of it. I want to know what I'm dealing with. I want to know who that person was or why they ticked that way. Because I don't really need to diagnose someone. I need to know for myself, like, what is that so that I can see it again. Spot patterns. That just makes me feel safer in the world.

Me too.

So the thing that is sticking out for what you're talking about, which is a little bit different than the just the straight up covert narcissism piece, is the dysregulated emotion part of this. And so in general, the COVID narcissist is going to love bomb you in a way that makes you feel really needed, really special, really wanted. It's not going to be like the Prince Charming coming in on his white horse for women. Like, it's not that kind of a thing. It's much more subdued. Or like, you know, you're the one that I've always wanted that early. I love you. The early. Let's move in together. All of that is pretty on track. What is different about what I'm hearing in your pattern is this high, high level of targeting blame with emotionality. And so that dysregulated emotion and with a. It seems like a pattern of fearing abandonment Would that be.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. So have. So that is a little bit different. And that might be borderline, and you can have narcissism and borderline and covert narcissism and borderline and all that good stuff. But that is a different situation. And what is different about that is so in. In general, when a nurse, when you are done with a narcissist or the narcissist is done with you, they do a thing called discard. And like, you just don't exist. You're. You're dead to me. I'd never see you again. Right. Borderline doesn't do that. Borderline wants to want revenge for that. They can't handle the disruption. They can't handle that emotionality of being abandoned. And you are still the target, and you will remain the target until they have a new one.

I actually researched borderline first because that's what I thought it was. And when I started researching it, I came across the COVID narcissism. And the COVID narcissism is really, really what it looked like at the end of things. But I think that they're both very similar. They're both a lot of overlap. So to me, it's like I don't really know what it was. And kind of like, to your point before, it's like it doesn't really matter what label I want to put on it, really, because it's just. It's. It is what it is. It is like what you know, and, but, but again, spotting the pattern of behavior. But yes, you're right. The fear of abandonment was a big thing. And she always framed these things, these emotionalities in that kind of way. Right. It was always that I'm not a good enough partner. I don't appreciate her enough, I don't treat her well enough. I don't do this, I don't do that. And always framed in, oh, you're going to go cheat on me, like this type of stuff. So it was always kind of coming from that larger theme of being abandoned. And so you're right, it may be borderline.

I mean, yeah, it might be. It might be covert either way, because a fear of abandonment could be triggering, you know, dysregulation. It could also be triggering a narcissistic rage. So, yeah, either way, it's not going to be fun. It's not going to be easy to deal with. Right. So how are you feeling after having left us? Are you gun shy about dating again? Do you know what to look for right away or how to protect yourself going forward.

I am a little bit apprehensive about getting close to people. Um, I've, I've gone out, you know, talked to different, I've had different interactions with. And so like, I'm not like afraid to talk to people or anything. It's just that getting close to somebody or actually getting in a relationship, I am a little bit apprehensive and I, I, I am kind of aware, I guess, if you like judging off of, you know, our whole conversation here and whatever. Like, if you have any, any pointers for me.

I do, I do, I do. And I have, I have a very weird way of doing this and it's really helpful for dating, so. And I call it dating with your body. So what happens with online dating, with app dating, with all the post Covid dating is we've become very, very accustomed to dating with our mind. So we'll look at a person or we worth thinking about them, like, do I like them? Am I attracted to them? Whatever. That sets us up for a pretty dangerous situation because your mind has already made a case for this person or against this person. Now if you think about like evolution and how we all evolved, we evolved to be around a person in real life. And so I tell all the women, all the men, date with your body. And what I mean by that is put your body next to them and stay on that. What does this feel like here right now? And don't date with your mind right there, which is going to make exceptions, justifications, stories or whatever. So because your body is so much smarter than your mind is able to be at at that time. So for instance, you're looking for being relaxed around a person. Can I be relaxed? Am I stiff? Am I tense? Am I like, is my shoulder weird? Am I shaking my foot? Or am I like sweating? Not because I'm excited, but because something's off here? Or am I actually attracted to them in real life when I'm next to them? Which is very different than seeing a picture, right? So I would say that and then I would say for anybody that's ever dated a narcissist or raised by them or married them, divorced them, is you have to. Most people are like, I'm just so afraid that I've lost trust. I'm so afraid I can't trust myself that I'm a bad picker or I just don't know, you know, I'm so dysfunctional or I'm unhealthy, right? So what I will say almost always gets us into this mess is being overly positive about a person and not enough discernment, not enough skepticism. And that might sound really unoptimistic and very negative, but it's, it's kind of like you got to bring down the optimism and you got to be checking actions, not words. And that takes time. Stewart, when you're on a date, it's like, I like her. We'll see. You know, so far, so good. It's a yes until it's a no, but it's not a 1 million percent yes. And I'm not diving off this high dive into a relationship anytime soon until I have these certain traits and habits checked. And you're looking for. Yeah, needing to control, needing to dominate, sensitivity to criticism. You're looking for somebody who's trying to elicit pity big time. That's covert. That's what you want to be looking for. You want to look for someone who doesn't need a lot of attention, a lot of affirmation all the time.

Yeah.

Do they have a life of their own? So what do you think about that? How does that sound for you now.

That, that all that sounds like, you know, good because I, I do notice there are people that I'm in their presence and it just feels a little bit off and, or they say something, it's just like, what is this? And, but yeah, I mean, with her it was just so different. It was just very, I felt good around her, to be honest with you. Like, it wasn't until things got weird and she got triggered and all these other things. But what I did notice is that attachment is that kind of neediness that she had that was kind of right to the beginning because she was just, you know, all wide eyed, like googly eyed about me. And I suppose that fed my own narcissistic traits.

Well, it, it, every, every one of us needs to be needed. We want to be wanted. I mean, that's normal, that's good. For me, I did like 10 years of dating after my divorce and so I went on a lot of first date, like a lot, a lot, a lot of first dates and very few second dates. But with one guy that I ended up dating for a while, I did not see the COVID because I, well, I didn't even know it was for starters. But he just seemed so genuinely nice. Like, I just absolutely didn't see that it was manipulation at all.

Yeah, yeah.

Kindness.

Me too. And to be on, like, to give you an example, I even, you know, I brought her around my family like multiple times. But the Last time at Christmas, right before she ended up betraying me, my grandmother was like, oh, my gosh. Like, she just loves Alex. She's just in love with Alex. You can just tell. And, like, that's what my family thought. So she thought she had my whole family fooled, too, I guess. And, yeah, just to me, I rationalized it too, because in my mind, like, I am a really good partner. Like, I'm looking at it, like, when she says stuff like, I'm lucky to be with you, that, like, that she meant it. And maybe the part of her did, I don't know. But, like, I didn't take it as, like, oh, this is just a big scheme, you know, I don't think it's.

A calculated scheme, but, yeah, I'm lucky to be with you. Big red flag. I'm. I don't know what I'd do without you. Big red flag. You don't want to hear that. That's. That's. That's. That's when you run.

Yeah.

Unless you've been together for, like, 50 years and they're saying that after that.

Not a long time, that right away. But yeah, I mean, I think it's just.

I would say even in the first three years, you don't want to hear that yet.

Yeah, that's.

That's.

Yeah, it was. Yeah. I think it's just all of the. The over complementariness. I mean, it's like, you like it. I want it to a certain degree, but I don't want it to that degree where then it's like. Just feels. Yeah. I mean, there's something weird about when you're complimenting somebody so much because it's almost like there's. On the flip side of that, there's something expected then. Right. Or something. It feels like it's being done in a way that's. It's kind of like when you. That law of reciprocation, right, where you, like, do something for somebody and then you expect something later or something like that.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I think I just talked about that in a recent video. Just. It's almost like that salesperson, like, trying to hook you in. Like, now you're gonna buy, Right. Because I've been so nice to you.

Yeah, yeah.

There's all kinds of different reasons that somebody would be super emotional. They might be, you know, bipolar, they might have trauma, they might be having some kind of PTSD episode. Like, all different reasons. What the toxicity part or the real scary part is are they trying to use it as a weapon to Control your life and dominate you.

Right.

So that's where, that's where you just have to be really strong, really, and, and protective about like, what was that? What did you just do there? Why did you do that? You know, so like, yeah, don't go out with your friends tonight because I, I'm just so lonely and you know, how could you leave me back here? Like then you just talk about that right there. Like that doesn't work. You can't do that to me. You can try it again. But I'm not going to stay here if you do that again.

Yeah.

Instead of, oh, I really hurt her, it's like, no, we can have either raise up to this level and let's have a real conversation and if I hurt your feelings, I can deal with that. We can work that through. But if you're doing this to try to get me to stay, that's not going to work for me.

Yeah, yeah, I like that. And that's the thing. Is it like, what is this? You know, what is that right there? Like you pointed it out. Because that's all well and good. We can have a conversation about this if it's something that actually is, you know, you know, bothers you or anything for that matter. But having a calm conversation about something versus this type of like blame and, and tantrum. Yeah, the tantrum is completely not acceptable. To be doing that and then trying to use that to make me feel bad.

Yes, exactly. So that's, that's that coercion, that's that manipulation and that's the super toxic part that actually is. You have to play a part in that. That, that's where, that's the you problem there. Because believe it or not, other people aren't going to be manipulated by that. They just, they bounce right away. And hopefully you will now bounce right away. That doesn't mean that if a girl cries, you like get up and leave and never talk to her again. Because that's not what this is. So you just have to be really good at going, is this, is this being leveraged against my good heartedness, my generosity, my kindness? Are they actually using the good in me to try to hurt me?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think part of that too is like maintaining almost, you know, it's. This might sound weird or bad maybe, but just a little bit less empathy. Because I think what, sometimes what happens for me is like I get so swept up in the other person's emotions and how they're feeling that I'm not able to read the situation objectively anymore. And because I'm feeling what the other person's feeling. And so if I can remain a little bit more emotionally detached and just be. Not allow my emotions to get to take over, then I'll be able to see that for what it is like you're saying.

Yeah. So that's. That same thing that I was talking about is like, date with your body. Because what you do there is actually not real empathy. That is pretend empathy. Because when you're with a narcissist who's playing you and you're empathizing with that play, you're actually not reading real empathy empathy, you're reading fantasy and projecting empathy there. Projecting kindness where there isn't. So when you're in your body, you will truly empathize with a person, and you'll be like, I don't know. Have you ever sat across from somebody who just starts crying and they're, like, doing this whole show and you're like, I don't feel anything. This is weird. What are they doing? Yeah, no, that's true empathy. Because you're actually reading them.

Yeah. That's a really interesting distinction because. Yeah, that's so. Such an interesting way that. That you're putting it. I never thought about it like that, that, like, I'm projecting my own.

Your own good nature onto somebody that doesn't.

Well, I think it's because I have a blind spot there like, that I've created because I. I've decided that I want to see the good in this person. And that. That's limit. It's blinding me from the truth of what's going on.

100. 100. That is every one of my clients. That is me, that is everybody that watches my channel. That is what we do. We want to see the good in them. Sounds so correct, but it hurts us so badly.

Yeah.

So now what I say is I want to see the truth. I want to know the truth about them.

So do you have even, like, a phrase, let's say, because like I said, like, when things are good with her, I felt, like, relaxed around her, but it was going on. What you're saying with the body thing, I did feel, like, icky or just weird with these situations when she did this stuff.

Yep.

Is it. Have like, a certain phrase, like, do you say, I want to see the truth or how do you remind yourself to kind of see it objectively as that's happening?

Yeah. So I. How I look at it now and. And how I talked to my clients. Like, the words we use is like, I want to see the truth. I need to see the truth. I want to see the truth as fast as possible, really. Instead of. I want to keep this fantasy going for as long as possible. I want to. I want to know who I'm dealing with at the end of the day. That's really what I want to know. I want to know, are you dangerous? Are you going to hurt me? Are you strange? Are you fine with some quirks? Like, I just want to know what we're dealing with here.

Yeah.

And I also love my life. Like, I love my life. And I am just fiercely protective of bringing in any kind of drama or chaos into my life because I've worked so hard to get to this life after all that.

Yeah, Yeah, I agree. And I. I'm the same way. And that was really part of the ending thing, was an argument about texting. I told her, like, look, during the. During the day, I'm not going to be texting you because she started flipping out, attacking me that I wasn't texting her enough or texting her in the morning or asking how her day was. And. And I'm just like, you know, again, this was like, over the phone. So I was like, all right, like, I can text you in the morning. I was like, if that's that big of a deal. But then what happened is I text her in the morning, and then I. Because I didn't text her in the afternoon, it's almost like I didn't. It. The. The goal post shifted. It's like, okay, well, this is. This is ridiculous. Like, yeah. So I like that. And I'm going to kind of do that for myself like that. Keep that in the back of my mind that I want to see the truth. I want to see. And. And I fiercely want to protect my life, too. I mean, what I'm creating here and what I'm doing and what I'm working on, that's not going to change for anybody. It's not like I'm just going to throw that all away just because I have a relationship with somebody. I mean, that's not how life works and.

Right.

Not how it should be either. So. Right.

So you're. You're a health guy. Right. You work out, you eat well. Like, you wouldn't just eat something probably without knowing. Knowing the ingredients inside, right?

Yeah. I mean, for the most part, same thing.

Don't date until you know what you're dealing with. Just. Just check the ingredients and you're looking for. Is she manipulating me? Is she real? Watch her Actions don't watch her words. The words don't matter. You're looking for how she is over time.

Cool.

Cool.

But, but yeah, like so just the last point then. So just when that's happening, when you're in that moment, you just feel into your body like this feels. And you just kind of get a feeling like this feels off.

Yeah. You're so. We are animals. We live in an animal's body. So if you think about, you know, if. If you were walking through the jungle and you felt a jaguar staring at you or, you know, you get that creepy feeling like, this is not safe, this is not at ease, something's off. Now you can have that because you're nervous that you could totally have that. But you have to just stay checked in. Like, what is this? What am I feeling? Is this attraction? Am I nervous? Is this like too charming? Like, is she coming on too strong? She playing me? Does she have an angle? All of that is going to be read in your body when you're.

Yeah. You know, that's actually making me think because there's a lot of baby talk that she would do and a lot of kind of over the top stuff and now. And thinking back on it, I always was kind of like there were the certain things that you do that just made me feel a little bit off, like a little bit weird. And like calling herself a baby all the time, she'd be like, I'm just a baby. And so it's like getting into that type of thing that puts her this kind of victim thing too, also where she doesn't have to take accountability for anything going on. She can put all the responsibility for how she feels and her emotions and everything onto me. It kind of all was like feeding into that, I guess.

Yeah. So let's. Let's fast forward. You're on a date, you're with a new person, you've never met her before, and you start to have. For me, I. The first thing I would feel was, oh, I'm supposed to solve something here. Or like, I'm supposed to be doing a job here. Like, I'm either supposed to be entertaining or I'm supposed to be funny, or I'm supposed to be like making them feel good about themselves or something. So it was like when I was way too focused on them, I wasn't paying attention to am I relaxed or not, Am I enjoying him or not, Do I like him or not? Like, I'm not even checking in with myself, I'm just checking him. And like always thinking who am I supposed to be here?

Yeah.

It wasn't until like later when I met my husband, I'd done a lot of this work that I. The very first thing I noticed was I was. I had had this injury from yoga for a really long time and I couldn't sit cross legged very well. And I was at a. Was at a concert and he sat next to me and his leg touched my leg and my pain was gone. It was just like, I'm not holding myself tense and I just realized, oh, I can just. I'm weirdly relaxed. And his leg was touching me and I was like, that's weird because it always hurts in this position. And here I am, like able to just relax. Like I'm in my living room even though I'm at a concert sitting on the grass. So. So I already knew this and I was working on this with my clients and with myself and that was kind of my weird first sign. Like, oh, your body feels okay around him. And maybe, maybe this is a thing. And that's where I just kind of kept going. But I know it sounds strange, but it really does work.

Okay, and that was for your current. Like that?

Yeah, my current husband. Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. That's awesome. Yeah.

Yeah.

And again, that's why it was confusing because, like, I did feel good around her a lot of the time. It was only when she started acting in this type of way that we're talking about where I. But that's where it was confusing is like, I do feel around her a lot of the time though too. So.

Yeah, and you're not gonna always feel good. You're going to feel like you can be yourself, like you can occupy yourself is really what you're looking for. Because you know, when you're with somebody, like, they could be upset, they could be angry at you. That's not gonna feel good. You're working stuff out. When you're first meeting a person that's not supposed to feel good, but you can. You feel like you're. You're allowed to inhabit yourself.

That maybe it was something like borderline where it's almost like, like switching into a different Persona or something or, or only happening when. When she got triggered or something. That's why.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, people ask me all the time, like, you know, my employee, I think they're a narcissist. Should I get rid of them? No, no. There's a lot of them in the world and you can work with them and they're not like, as Long as you know what you're dealing with. I mean long term relationship, having families, all that kind of stuff. Like you just really, really need to be prepar prepared about it. But it's not like, it's not like you can avoid them in life. So you're not automatically going to be like, oh, this person is a covert narcissist. I can't. If I enjoy any part of this, then they must not be. No, you're looking for a pattern. They're cool, then they're not cool. How are they not cool? And what do they do when they're not cool? And you're looking for that pattern over time.

Yeah, yeah. And, and I definitely get that what you're talking about, like when they're being not cool or when anything is a miss. It's like this really weird feeling like bodily sensation. Yeah, so I see what you're saying.

Yes, it's a body sensation of being disoriented, off balance, things don't make sense. I feel confused. What am I dealing with here? That kind of a thing. And trust that part of yourself. Studying the signs of narcissistic abuse is crucial for everyone. But what's even more important is to learn to spot the narcissist before they do any damage. The most difficult narcissist to spot is the COVID narcissist. But if you know what to look for in everyday conversation, you can learn to spot them within seconds. So click this video next to learn the five ways to spot a covert narcissist in any conversation to make sure you're always one step ahead.