Alex Auerbach - Sport Psychologist for the Toronto Raptors

McLean, I'm your host and today my guest is Alec Arabak. His key topic today or our discussion and focus for today's chat will be actionable tips to reach and achieve peak performance. So for developing athletes, parents of of athletes, and of course support staff and coaches, you'll definitely get a lot out of this chat, so make sure you stick around. If you've got any questions, use the comment section below to post them through and we'll find some time at the end of this interview to answer your questions. But thanks for jumping on Alex, on the other side of the world. Really appreciate you jumping on and sharing with us your time and your experiences in elite sport.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here with you.

For those that aren't aware of your work mate, do you mind providing a background on what you've done so far in the industry?

Sure. So I actually started my career as a college football coach, was an intern for a couple NFL teams and really gravitated toward the relationship side of the business and so found myself searching for that a bit more, a little less of the X's and O's and a little bit more of how do I help people navigate their life, achieve their full potential, be the best that they can be on and off the field or court. And so went back to school and got my PhD in counseling psychology with kind of a double major basically in sport and performance psychology. Did my residency University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and then went to University of Arizona where I ended up taking over the mental health and mental performance services in the athletic department. So fairly large Division 1 athletic department in a Power 5 school in the States. And then in March 2020 had the opportunity to join the NBA's Toronto Raptors. So I've been there for I guess three and a half seasons now because we had the strange bubble year and then a relocation year and a couple other years. So it's been a fun ride. And in my day to day now I oversee what we call player development, which is kind of off court development, things like leadership ability, life skills, basic kind of character skills, as well as mental health and mental performance for our players, coaches and staff.

Fantastic. What an important role. And have you noticed in the industry over the last, I guess five years, awareness is sort of an interest has grown in this area of mental health, but also from a performance side, I think so.

I mean you've seen a number of players come out publicly and talk about mental health, whether it's John Wall or Kevin Love or DeMar DeRozan, Simone, Biles, Michael Phelps. Like, the list goes on and on. And then, you know, interestingly, one of the undercurrents I'm hearing more and more is actually TV shows and Netflix shows. So if you see things like, you know, all or nothing on Amazon or the Formula one series, or golf series on Netflix or tennis series, these athletes are talking about things like performing under pressure, managing their mindset, taking care of their mental health. And so the narrative is really starting to shift. Where it used to be kind of taboo to talk about any of this stuff, now you're seeing athletes pretty openly talk about this is an important part of their game. And as a result, organizations are starting to shift their approach where now it's more okay for an organization to say, here's a resource that we offer you to kind of navigate this side of it. So it's definitely blown up in the last few years, which is awesome. And I think we're just at the start of that trend. We're really going to start to see mental health and mental performance infused really in all kind of sectors of high performance industry, because everyone's starting to recognize and appreciate that so much of what you're doing to be a peak performer takes place between the years.

Yeah. And how much of your role would be focused on sort of the coaching staff and assisting them to work with the athletes compared to one on one with the athletes or presenting to the group of athletes?

Yeah, it's a both. And for me, I mean, I think you want to operate at multiple levels in a role like mine. Right. So of course, if a player comes individually with a specific challenge, that's often an opportunity to give them some really unique, tailored, structured things specific to their challenge. Right. You know, and that might not be applicable to, you know, in my case, the other 15 players. Right. But then of course, you want to work with the coaching staff to really cascade things around mental performance. Right. So whether that's how we effectively manage transitions or bounce back from mistakes, or even just the way we communicate with each other, I think those things go a long way from a team perspective to promote better mental health and better mental performance. And so, you know, it's hard to put a quantified time on it. Right. What percentage is what? But you try to do both as best you can.

Yeah. And going back to your career, who have been some strong influences or mentors, if you like, that have helped shape your philosophy.

Oh, it's a great question. I've been super fortunate to have a handful of good people who have kind of guided me. So my first mentor in this space was a guy named Scott Goldman. Scott and I worked together on an intelligence test called the aiq, which basically measures an athlete's ability to see and process the field, how quickly they react, their learning efficiency. And he kind of introduced me to sport psych and all the potential use cases essentially for someone in our role and what we could do to really make the role influential, from making draft decisions to helping players feel, think and perform better. He was sort of pivotal and foundational in my transition from coaching to this space. Obviously, my grad school mentor, a guy named Trent Petrie, was really valuable sort of training me and helping me get here. But I've had a number of other friends and good influences kind of along the way, ranging from guys like, you know, Steve Magnus or Justin Sua to guys like Joey Raymaker who's at Notre Dame, or Tyler Bradstreet or a couple other friends I've got in the college space. Alex Thompson, Blakely Lowe, just a number of people who have been super, super valuable for me, all kind of operating in my same world, really helping push my thinking, help me elevate my game, and sort of introduce me to other ways of doing things. I mean, obviously I have my way or my set sense of how to best deliver, but it's great to learn from some other really talented folks in my space. Yeah.

And for the sports psychs listening in to this podcast, how helpful has that sort of coaching background that you did early on your career, when you look back, has that helped, in hindsight, been a helpful experience as a sports side?

For sure. I mean, I think coaching teaches you or exposes you to a number of things that you might get less exposure to in grad school. Right. So standing up in front of a room and giving a break, presentation, getting really clear on how effectively you communicate ideas, what does or doesn't stick. Right. Even understanding how to work with this college age group, I think is one of them. And then I think what's super unique about it is oftentimes coaches will sort of push back against sports pych because there's a sense that you haven't done it before. And I'm even experiencing that a little bit right now in one of the conversations I'm having. And for people to be able to say, like, oh, wait, you did this, like, you did the. You did the coach grind. Like, you know what that was like to wake up super early, go to bed super late, sleep in the office. Like, things that I don't actually love about coaching culture I want to endorse but are sort of like part of the, how you get into the club. I've done and lived those things and so it does bring a little bit different level of respect and also for me brings a little bit different level of empathy. Right. Like I know what it feels like to work 90 hours in a week, to coach a game on Saturday and to lose and to coach a game on Saturday and to win. Right. And what those experiences look and feel like. And so there's just a different way of being able to connect that I found super valuable in the work that I do.

Yeah, you touched on something there, the coaching culture. And you do hear about in Australia how it's, you know, it's another level over in America in terms of the hours that are put in and sleeping in your office and where, where do you see that from a, you know, is it sustainable? How do you see, you know, from coaches from, from a turnover point of view for those that have, have been able to do it over a long period of time, have high success, do they have a better life balance or do they just simply have an unbelievable work ethic and get used to it and adapt?

It's very hard to find coaches that work those ridiculous hours who have a well balanced life and well balanced life at home and a satisfying life at home. So they might have some success on the field, but they are probably dealing with other things away. That's been my experience. Yeah. And I think, you know, where we should be trying to move the coaching culture I think is to a little bit more of a place of thinking of coaches as high performers too. Right. The same things we advocate for our athletes, sleep, nutrition, hydration, exercise, mental fitness. These things also impact coaches. Right. And so working until 11 o' clock at night, 12 o' clock at night, getting up at 4 in the morning, 5 in the morning, like sleep is a huge, huge part of your performance. And your whole performance as a coach revolves around decision making and communication and emotion regulation. You're basically cutting yourself off at the knees doing the one thing that's going to help you do all of those things. Well, you're just cutting it short. And so I think where we want to head or where I'd love to see coaching head is to a place of more sustainable lifestyle, better success. But it is very challenging because the pressures that coaches are facing to win now, win quickly, build the system, recruit better players, deliver a championship in two or three years, stay at the top of the Game. Often the way people feel they can best solve that problem is simply more time and more work. And so I think we've got to push that a little bit too. You know, I think a really simple parallel here is to draw to the business world. Right. You know, when a company is forming or venture backed startup gets started, you're not looking for that company to be a unicorn in 12 months. You know, you're looking for that company to try to be successful over 5 to 8 to 10 years and give people time to build and grow and develop and match the changes in the landscape. And so there's probably a sweeter spot for coaches where we're not expecting a two year turnaround or a three year turnaround, but we're really thinking about building a program, building a culture, giving coaches time to sink their teeth in and let their message permeate, get their players into the system and extend that Runway to 5, 6, 7, 8 years. Where assuming they're not totally destroying what you're trying to build as an owner, you're giving them an opportunity to really see their vision out, I think will ultimately allow coaches to feel a little bit more comfortable actually focusing on themselves as a high performer as a part of creating that winning culture.

Yeah, well said. And from a highlights point of view, are there any that sort of spring front of mind from your career so far? I imagine working the NBA there'd be a few. But even perhaps outside of the NBA.

Yeah, gosh, I mean, I've been fortunate to be in some pretty cool spaces. Right. So, you know, highlights for me would be, you know, my first NBA draft. You know, I've. I've been fortunate to work with some players who have done things like ask me to pray with them pre game. And I'm not a religious person, but to be invited into that space with someone is really meaningful. Right. It's like deeply personal and feels impactful. So, you know, I've had those moments. Obviously going to an NBA playoff series is pretty remarkable. Going through Covid and bubble gear and you know, life with no fans was also interesting. I don't know if I'd call it a highlight per se, but definitely an experience. You know, relocating a franchise internationally, like, I've had some pretty wild fun rides in, in the pro sports space for sure.

Yeah. And on the flip side, challenges, obviously. I could talk about this. With elite sport comes pressure. What have been some challenges that you faced and I guess how have you grown from it as a practitioner, from a professional point of view?

Yeah. Gosh, I mean, there's probably too many to name, unless you want to spend the rest of the podcast on challenges. But I think the big ones for me are building relationships with players. And some of that just takes time. But oftentimes problems emerge before the relationship is formed. And so, you know, navigating those spaces, I can certainly think of some missteps I've made there. I can think of times where, you know, I felt like I wasn't the best clinician for someone or wasn't able to give someone my best work. I can think of mistakes I've made just generally sort of with how I've thought through a problem or, you know, the ways I've communicated something. And so I think for me, what I've really taken from those experiences is one, you know, better sifting through who I can and can't be for people, knowing that I can't be all things to all people. I've worked hard to let that go and sort of build a team around me that can round me out and help me deliver to everyone, versus me having to be that person. I think being really thoughtful and intentional about how I communicate certain things and the messaging I'm sending and, you know, making sure I'm accounting for all the different stakeholders who are part of my system, I think is really, really important. And then I think for me, you know, working at this level, there's just been kind of a constant underlying pressure to know more and think about problems in a more creative, dynamic way. And so I've tried to sort of push myself to keep learning, keep growing, keep developing, and figure out newer, better ways that I can help our athletes be the best that they can be.

And the. In terms of the topic, achieving peak performance, I guess for those that haven't felt peak performance or don't think that they've felt it, what does peak performance look and feel like, do you think, from your point of view?

So it's tricky because I think sometimes people often think that peak performance feels like flow, and flow may or may not be a peak performance. And so to me, peak performance is really about those kind of un. Unique circumstances in which you express your full potential in the context of a competitive event. Right? You do something that you've just never done before at a really, really high level, and you sort of establish a new PR that you're now constantly trying to replicate. So sometimes that can feel like flow, right? It can feel like being fully immersed in the situation, being incredibly responsive, losing track of time. Things feel almost like effortless Even though they're effortful, but it can also feel really hard. Right. It can feel like a grind. It can feel like wishing things would just be over. It could feel like pushing yourself past where you feel like is reasonable. So there's not one set way to sort of define a peak performance. And that's why I look toward that kind of external outcome. To say like this, this was really good. Right. By all objective measures, this was better than what we normally do. And there are specific things we can then try to replicate that bring us more close to that level consistently. That's what we're after.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's reaching a new, new ceiling. And does that and the feeling of it, has that got to do with the, the context of the sport demands in terms of how hard it feels? I imagine something like a rowing pr. It's going to feel very different to, you know, someone like Steph Curry having the best shooting night that he's had for his pr. Or is it. Or does it just depend on the athlete themselves and how they interpret it?

I think it's both. Right. I think it's the individual, like, how do they get ready, how do they perform, what challenges are they facing, how much energy do they have? And then, yeah, there's the sport element to it too. Right. You mentioned rowing, but I mean, track and field, endurance, running, like these are all essentially sports that boil down to effective pain management. And so it's unlikely that that's going to feel great on mile 23 of a 26 mile marathon. You know, you're probably not feeling super flowy and free and floaty. Right. But you might see that or feel that in basketball. And so, you know, I think it just depends on the sport. There's no right or wrong, but I think that's what, what kind of makes it interesting is that how you feel might be different, but the way that you can get there, some of the skills you can leverage, I think cuts across the sports.

And what are some common challenges that you help developing athletes with and I guess for the listeners, some solutions to those challenges.

Yeah. For developing athletes in particular, I think one of the hardest things to do is to create and develop and implement kind of a set of high performance habits and routines. You know, so for many elite developing athletes, most of those athletes have been kind of at the top of their game, you know, through whatever point that they're playing at now, even if you're playing, I'm thinking of North American sport, but like really elite club sport. Right. At aau or an academy for a soccer team, you're still at the top, right? Even if you're surrounded by other great people. And so often what's carried you to that point is some physical attribute, right? You're taller, better, faster, stronger, more skilled, whatever than your peers. But at a certain point you're going to come to a time where everyone's kind of the same, right? The bell curve is really shrunk and most of you fall in this really narrow peak. And so how do you then separate yourself? And I think a lot of that boils down to really the way you prepare. So what does a high performance, you know, pre performance routine look like? What habits do you implement to get yourself ready and stay ready regularly? Whether that's things like mindfulness practice or breath work or actively working on your self talk. It also comes down to how you execute, right? So how can you quickly, you know, bounce back from mistakes, learn from failures in the game, stay present, stay focused and then how you debrief, right? The way in which you process the outcome of your game or process your practice, how frequently you revisit the steps that you've taken to get to this point. What could you do better? What could you be doing differently? Whatever you learned, I think those kind of core bucket of skills, which are all really self regulation skills, that's what we know as scientists and sports psychologists, separates the best athletes from their just not quite their counterparts. Right. And so I think as a developing athlete, the more you can be working on those skills and putting those into practice, the better that you're going to be as you get to the higher and higher level.

Yeah, yeah, it's a fair bit to unpack there, but I guess let's start with the how to deal with failure or making a mistake and moving on to the next one and staying present. Is it a matter of working out, using that as feedback and working out what actual things you need to do differently for the next situation? Or is there an element of putting it behind you that almost bidding it. What's your philosophy in educating athletes that struggle to sort of move on after making a mistake in a game?

So, so I think it's, it's actually I see the two as pretty linked, which is I think people often feel difficulty moving on from a mistake in the game when they don't have a great system for managing the mistake afterward. And so if you, if you don't have a way that you're going to process these mistakes that you've made in the game, which by the way like is happening at every level of sport. Right. Like the best NBA shooters are shooting 40% from three.

Right.

So 60% of the time there's a mistake. Right. Or there's not the optimal outcome. And so I think the best players create a system for themselves to process that mistake at the right time. Right. Which is usually honestly not in the moment. Right. So if you're in the middle of a soccer game, let's say, and you miss a pass or you overshoot it, or you miss a wide open net, it's probably not the time to be wondering, well, next time maybe I'll lean a little bit forward or oh gosh, I wonder if I would have done it this way, how would that have turned out? Because all that energy and focus is being directed away from what's happening in the here and now, which is really where we need your attention for you to perform well. But if you've got a good system in the system I like to teach athletes is really a three question system. It's what did I do that I want to keep doing, what did I do that I want to do differently and what did I learn? If you can just practice that system repeatedly, you've now given yourself essentially permission to deal with this mistake after the game because you've got a good framework. And so what I often work with athletes on is learning how to implement those questions and ask themselves those questions at the end of a game when it's still fresh, when there's an opportunity to learn, but the mistake is passed and it's not so intensely felt. Right. But then it also allows them to give themselves permission essentially to not deal with the mistake actively in the game, not process the mistake in the moment, and instead know that it's okay to move on because we're going to deal with it in a few minutes.

Yeah, love that. That's some gems there for athletes and like you mentioned, coaches as well, where we make mistakes as well in the moment. So to be able to understand that, it's probably like you mentioned, not the best time to reflect and ponder on it in the moment, but to move on to the next one. Working on being present and in the moment, it's probably, I imagine there's a time where it's quite easy for people to get distracted at the moment with social media and the amount of technology. How do you find what are some sort of important habits or practices if you like to help with concentration?

Yeah, I mean, I think the foundational practice here is mindfulness practice. You know we know regular mindfulness training can improve concentration, can improve focus. And so a simple place to start is just five minutes a day, right, of focusing on your breath and really sustaining that attention as you get distracted, coming back and returning the focus to the of the breath. And that that act of being distracted and coming back to the moment can actually help strengthen your ability to be present. So I think that's a really simple starting point. But there are other kind of creative things you can do to help direct your attention. So the other really simple intervention I love is it's called win. It stands for what's important now. It's just when you find yourself kind of out of the moment, one simple way to bring your attention back is to just ask yourself what's important now. And the answer to that question should help you lock in and redirect your attention to whatever you need to be focusing on. And so, you know, I think mindfulness is great for sustaining that kind of practice over time, but you can come up with little tips and tricks to help yourself in the short term when you get distracted. And I think, you know, the third thing I'll say is recognize that it's part of it, right? Like we live in a high distraction society. There's a lot of things pulling for our attention, buying for our attention, even in the middle of a sporting game, right? Like you're dealing with teammates giving you feedback, coaches giving you feedback, the actual play of the game, parents, whatever, right? There's a lot of stakeholders who are offering essentially what could be distractions up in the context of the sport performance. And so having this ability to redirect your attention from that back to the here and now via mindfulness training or what's important now, I think are great skills to leverage.

And you mentioned earlier, I think it was the separation between the great and everyone else is their ability to prepare and their routine and, and having their processes down pat. For athletes that haven't quite found their weekly routine leading up to a big game, how many changes and tweaks would you make in one week? If you're starting to add in things like mindfulness and new things to your routine and then how many times do you think you need to stick at something before you recognize that's not quite resonating with me and effective? Is it three or four times? Is it a gut feeling? Is it consulting a professional? Obviously it's a challenging one with the broad topic, not speaking with an individual in mind. But yeah, I guess for developing athletes, trying to add some new things to their schedule. How do you work out whether it's working well for you or not?

So I'd say one thing at a time is the way to go and treat it like an experiment. So try one thing, run it for a little bit. But one day is probably not enough. You're using this as a scientist, so think about yourself as a person who's trying to understand what helps them perform best. However much data you need to gather to answer that question is how many days that you should persist. What I will say is people have a tendency to give up early. So you know, mindfulness I think is a great example. I've worked with countless athletes who just say, I just can't meditate, I just can't do it. Oh, it doesn't work for me, my mind won't slow down. Well, like that's the point, that's the point of the exercise is, is to get used to what it means to slow your mind down. It's to get used to sort of clearing your mind, if you will, and being really focused. And so if you're experiencing that, that's great. Like that's part of the exercise, right? That's what we want. Because that distraction, that sensation that your mind is swirling, that's a distraction. And you can come back to the breathing and it might be super rapid and you might get distracted a lot, but the more you do it, the better able you're going to be to be present. So again, just one example, but I think often people sort of try like eh, it just didn't feel great. So I'm going to move forward. And it's like, okay, there might be times and instances where that works, but by and large we really need a larger set of data points to be able to say this does or doesn't work and here's why.

And what about coaches and support staff? How can we help to help athletes achieve their optimal peak performance?

Yeah, I think coaches and support staff, I mean a part of your role is to create one, create a high performance environment, right? So create an environment where people feel like they can express themselves. Create an environment where people's autonomy is supported, right. And they're encouraged and given choice. Emphasize things like competence and mastery, sort of emphasizing development and progress and growth, focusing on things like how connected people feel, the cohesion of the team. Right? These are all principles from self determination theory. But there are also things that increase intrinsic motivation and enhance performance. So I think, you know, rule number one or priority one for coaches and support staff is essentially creating A context where high performance can emerge. Right. So, you know, if you look at elite levels of sport, Olympians, for example, the primary stressor Olympians identify that undermines their peak performance is actually organizational issues. It's not lack of preparation. It's not anything else. It's, I have a difficult relationship with my coach, or there's a lot of tension when I walk in the building or people seem focused on the wrong things or they're putting pressure on me. It's not, oh, the environment's really set up for me to be maximally successful. And so I think that's. That's priority one. And then I think the second thing I'd encourage is talk to your athletes, right? Talk to them about how they're using mental skills, what are they doing for mental training, and kind of lean into that. Right. The same way that we expect athletes to lift weights, eat well, to get kind of in peak physical condition, we should have expectations that athletes will need to train their mind to be in peak mental condition. So these things that we often talk about as qualities that athletes have or don't have, right, Things like mental toughness, like, that's a set of skills that you can learn. That's not a trait someone does or does not have. And so part of your responsibility is to figure out, how do we then give athletes time, skills, resources to do that. And that's maybe where you want to bring in a professional or you want to consult with a professional to help you do that. But I think those two things are really, really important for maximizing the performance of your athletes.

Yeah. And how about for the junior pathways? Like, do you think there's an element of bringing it in when they're starting to learn the sport, learning, you know, the power of their breath and being able to reset and. Yeah, these skills that we're teaching the elite athletes. But what age should we be starting learning these skills?

I can't say. I think there's a specific age, but I think obviously there's different factors you have to deal with, Right. At what point can a young kiddo sit still and kind of do some of these things is obviously a big one, but in general, I would think as early as reasonably comfortable for this athlete, Even if it's just one minute of breathing and paying attention to your breathing, like that's something you're just introducing them to. The idea really, that their mind has an impact over the way that they perform, that how they feel or what they think about has an impact and influence on the way that they perform. And so I would look at it from the youth standpoint as let's introduce them to this idea that this is relevant, that this is important. Let's have some fun with it. You know, I'm generally a person that doesn't believe we should make youth, youth athletes all that professionalized or too serious too early so that we reduce the risk of burning them out or attrition. But I think introducing some of these concepts and talking about them, right, like these are what the best athletes in the world do. And you can do it too. You know, let's try this mindfulness exercise for 30 seconds. That's a great way to move the needle on some of this stuff.

Yeah, fantastic. And for the programs or perhaps coaches are listening in, they're looking after a community, local team don't have access to a sports psych. Is there apps out there or websites that resources that people should be aware of?

Yeah, there's a, you know, Headspace is a great app for teaching mindfulness. Calm is fine too. There's some great websites out there. Believe Perform is run by a guy named Chris Shambrook, who's a really talented sports psychologist out in the uk. He's got some great resources and there are some lovely books for coaches. You know, there's a book actually called Sports Psychology for Coaches that will walk you through the basics and how you can implement it. So I'd encourage, you know, using some of those resources. But just, you know, plenty of free stuff exists out there to sort of promote peak performance for youth athletes. Those are just some of the starting points.

Yeah. And on that topic, thanks for sharing those resources. I'll add them in the show notes for those that might be driving listening into the recording. But at what point should there be some red flags where coaches and even parents looking after a team where you start to think, okay, there's probably some professional help that we need to bring in here. What are some signs?

Yeah.

From a mental health point of view.

Yeah. I mean certainly you want to look for, you know, changes in behavior. Right. So if someone is just behaves differently than how they've been in the past, that's often a sign that something's up, I think. You know, quick to anger, quick to frustrate, quick to quit.

Quit.

These are all signs that something more significant might be happening. But then I would also be looking for kind of functioning across domains. Right. So, you know, are grades suffering at school or is this person spending less time with friends than usual? Those, those might all be signs that there's something just a bit deeper going on that warrants a little bit of exploration. And what I'd say is, when in doubt, don't be shy. Like, there's, you know, it's okay to say to someone, hey, you know, it looks like you're having a difficult time. I wonder if it'd be helpful to talk to someone or just say, you know, if you're a parent, hey, I've been thinking about this a lot for myself. Like, I'm going to go talk to someone. Do you want to do it too? You know, sort of modeling for them what it would look like to ask for help. I think oftentimes, especially for younger, you know, kids and adolescents, it's really hard to have the language to say, I need something. And so if someone can sort of help them give voice to that, it can be a really powerful way to get them the access to the and professionals that they need to take care of themselves.

Yeah. And we touched on cognitive fatigue from a coach's perspective. But for athletes within long competitive seasons, like the NBA and in Australia, afl, what are some ways to limit cognitive fatigue? And if you're in that state as an athlete, what are some ways to sort of work your way out of it?

The number one tool for getting out of this is act is rest. Right? It's rest and time away from the game. And so that means time where you're not actively thinking about, in my case, basketball. Right. So we often think of rest as like, oh, your feet are up on the couch and you're lounging around at home. But if you're lounging around at home watching film on your iPad, you're not really resting, right? You're not recharging, you're resting your body, but you're not resting your mind. And so for me, it's time for fully separated from this experience so that you can just give yourself an opportunity to learn, consolidate the information and recover. Right. So I think that's priority one. Sleep is another really important factor when it comes to managing cognitive fatigue. And then I think the third one is taking breaks throughout the day. Obviously, it's hard in the context of a practice or a game to find little moments to take a breather. But, you know, in the NBA, for example, like if you're taken out of the game and you've got 90 seconds before you have to go in again, it might be okay to just do a minute of mindfulness. It might be worthwhile to just spend a minute focusing on your breathing or just completely check out you know, and that can be scary for people to acknowledge because we often want our athletes on the bench cheering or fully engaged. And there's merit to that, too. But if you really want to get. After reducing cognitive fatigue, fatigue, you've got to give people a chance to just detach and then come back and refocus.

And is that something that you work with the skills coaches with in terms of being aware of perhaps when an athlete is going through a mindfulness routine when they're on the bench and respecting it?

Yeah. I mean, we talk a lot about what mindfulness might look or feel like and how to sort of give people space and time to do what they need to do to get ready or stay ready. And so, you know, it's. It's. There's not usually like a universal marker, right? Like, hey, if he's doing this, you know, don't, don't go over there. But it's more about, you know, helping coaches tune into this. This as a possibility. Right. Hey, you know, if you see a guy at the end of the bench with a towel over his head, let's say, is a very common NBA look, right? This might be a sign to just leave him for a couple minutes. You know, you don't need to go over there and intervene. You don't know what's happening under there. And so just kind of allow that to unfold and. And the athlete will come back when they're ready to perform. And you see this across sports. Right. Football, soccer, baseball, you know, all athletes have these little kind of subtle cues where they're sort of showing you that they're needing some distance. And I think the main thing is just actually tuning in and respecting those cues versus focusing on what you're trying to accomplish as a coach. Right. I need to really give you this feedback, or you've got to hear this coaching point, or I really need you to see this play right now. It's like, is that actually true? Is the benefit of doing that better than the cost of disrupting their recovery? Like, I think there's just some nuance to interject in there that can help us make better decisions as coaches around how to help athletes perform better?

Sure. Yeah. Makes sense. And for the teammates, so athletes listening in, even leaders, what are some other cues that you can do to help if an athlete maybe is going through an element where they're in a bit of a bad patch, they've made a few errors in. In a game, what are some ways that you can build a relationship with an athlete? So you know that a certain cue for them can help get them back up into that prime state.

I mean, it sounds simple, but ask, you know, like, I think so much gets. We try to make sport, like, kind of mystical, right? Where it's like, oh, you know, I just know. I just know when he feels off. Or, oh, I know this guy needs five shots to get his rhythm. So let's like, maybe. But you could also just ask the question. Question, right. Hey, when you're suffering or when you're struggling, like, what would be most helpful for me to get you back into the game? And you'd be surprised what guys come up with. Right. Or gals come up with. Sometimes it's like, I just need a fist bump. Hey, I need you to remind me what my assignment is. Oh, it'd be super helpful if you told me a joke. Like, there's no right or wrong answer. Right. It's just about what does each individual need? And so what I'd really encourage is ask the question. Right? Like, try to get to know your teammates better. Of course you want to pay attention to what their body language looks like when they're struggling, how they respond when they make a mistake. But I wouldn't read too deeply into that because body language is not a universal phenomenon where every time someone hangs their head, it means something is wrong. So we need to be careful with that kind of assumption. And that's where I think asking the question becomes so powerful.

Yeah. And we've touched on sleep and how important it is. What would be your sort of top three tips that you give with athletes that are learning to improve their sleep hygiene, improve their sleep quality, particularly after a game when they're might be a late night game and the arousal levels are really high and they find it hard to sort of get into that rested state.

Yeah. So tip one is cool down your body temperature. Tip two is wake up at the same time every day. Tip three is have a good bedtime routine. Right. That you can repeat no matter what time it is. We could go deeper. You know, there's probably more tips, of course, but the. The main one actually is make sure you wake up at the same time every day.

Fantastic. Is there anything on. On this topic in terms of achieving peak performance, Alex, that we haven't touched on, that you'd like to before we start to wrap up?

Yeah, Gosh. I mean, I think I just want to maybe double down on one point. We've touched on it, but I want to double down on the idea, especially for developing and youth Athletes and parents and coach coaches like, this is an act of experimentation, right. So to me, peak performance is kind of like it's an emergent property, right? It's something that comes about from really good preparation, good study, a set of good habits, the right mix of environment plus fundamentals. Like, there's a lot that goes into consistently delivering really high quality results. And so as you're working with youth athletes or developing athletes, understanding and appreciating that, it's going to take some time to get to that right answer. And rather than being frustrated or wanting to speed it up, it can be really encouraging to just say, you know what? Like, let's just try some things together, right? Let's see how this works for you. With the ultimate goal being that we want these athletes to become essentially scientists about their own performance. Right. We want them to think really deeply about what they need and then figure out how to get that for themselves, which involves a lot of testing, iterating, experimenting, failing, feedback. Right. Things that just take time. And so I'd really encourage people to just lean into that because there's not really a shortcut to consistent peak performance. But if you're going to do the work to be a great scientist about your own performance, you're going to quickly figure out what you need to perform at your best consistently. And then it's about making sure those things happen time and again.

Yeah, yeah, it's so well said. And I guess the way I would interpret that listening in from an athlete's perspective or even just in general life, like all experiences are going to help you if you have the right processes in terms of, you know, it's feedback and you never know when you'll go through that moment again. But if you've got the processes to deal with it better, it's going to only set you up for better success. Right.

100%. Love it.

Yeah, it's great, great. That growth mindset and how you said experiment with it and it's. Yeah, it's a great way to look at it. Thank you so much for sharing with us your experiences with it and what's worked. We believe that success leaves clues so you know what's relevant for the best athletes. And it's great to be able to filter that to any athlete listening in. And like you mentioned, parents and coaches going into more the personal side of the podcast, mate. And your work life, do you have any pet peeves or anything that sort of makes you angry in the industry?

I mean, in the industry? Yeah, yeah.

Or working with Athletes or, you know, part of the, part of the job.

Yeah, I mean, you know, there's always, there's always frustrations around. You know, I think for me, there's just a lot of noise around my profession. Right. One of the things I struggle with is almost anyone can call themselves a mental coach. Right. Which is a bit scary, you know, and so for me, that's, that's always a little bit of a peeve for someone who's gone through, you know, a ton of training to get to this point and has tried to do things, you know, sort of by the book, if you will. I think it's, it's always a little disheartening when someone comes in and calls themselves a mindset coach. But you learn to, you learn to live with it because it's part of the process. And then on the personal side, I mean, not that you're asking, but you know, my biggest pet peeve personally is when people leave the microwave numbers unclear, cleared after they take something out early. And that happens a remarkable amount in the team kitchen. You know, someone will heat something up and they just leave it. And so it's, you know, at a workplace that's. That bothers me too.

No one's actually mentioned. It's funny too. It resonates because my microwave door is always left open. That's a pet peeve for me, constantly closing that every day. But it's the little things in life. What about your favorite way to spend your day off?

Oh, man, I love spending time outside, so I love hiking, spending time with my family. We're kind of an outdoorsy group of people. So, you know, walk in the park, walk along the lake, hiking, if we can get away. No, no question, that's where I'll be.

And we're recording this podcast midway through or early part of Ch. 2023 in April. What are you excited about? What are you most excited about? What's on the horizon for 2023?

Yeah, gosh, I'm most excited about like these kinds of conversations. Right. I'm excited about the opportunity to share more about what it means to reach peak performance, to achieve your full potential, to try to share some of these science backed principles to a larger and larger subset of people. I mean, I know everyone kind of has an innate goal of sort of being the best that they can be, but a lot of people don't know how to get there. And it's a really, really hard process. And so for me, I'm looking forward to kind of continuing to have these opportunities to share as best I can with whatever audience and you know, hopefully do more of my own kind of creation to help people have that opportunity to put some of this into practice.

Yeah, that's fantastic mate. You're doing great work, clearly making a big impact on the industry and really appreciate your time. For those that want to ask any follow up questions or follow your work, where's the best place to get in contact terms of socials?

Yeah, you can find me on Twitter, lexauerbachphd, LinkedIn, the same thing, alexauerbachphd. Both are great platforms for reaching out. I answer basically every DM I get. Sometimes it takes me a little bit of time to get there, but I do get there. So happy to connect and share ideas with anyone there.

Fantastic. And for those that have tuned in halfway through, make sure to listen to the whole YouTube episode. And we'll actually publish this episode pretty quickly in 24 hours. So this will be released tomorrow so you can listen to it on your favorite podcasting app. Our next live chat is with Scott Smith. That's this Thursday 27th April at 2pm Australian Eastern Standard Time. So I'll see you guys then. Thanks for tuning in. Cheers again, Alex.

Thanks, Jeff.