Justin Hill, Hill Law Firm - San Antonio Love Fest - The Michael Girdley Show Episode 41

Hey everybody, Michael here. Welcome to another edition of the Michael Girdley Show. Um, today I had my buddy, uh, Justin Hill, who is a lawyer here in San Antonio, uh, come in and we did a whole episode about San Antonio, uh, and things around that. We also talked a bit about how personal injury works. This is something I never knew how that type of law, uh, worked as, as well, and that business worked as well, but a ton of San Antonio content. I only came up with 3 different business ideas during the podcast, so I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. And here is the episode with me and Justin. Hey, Michael here. Today's sponsor is Harbor Capital. So Harbor Capital is a firm located up in Austin, and they are a real estate private equity firm that focuses specifically on light industrial assets across the state of Texas. So Levi and his team, I've gotten to know them pretty well having worked with them as an advisor over the past several months and excited to have them sponsor today's episode. So, you know, what they do is basically, you know, acquire these real estate assets using their own money and investor money as well. And then they manage them over time for cash flow and appreciation, hopefully with everybody winning throughout that process. So, They're excited about what's going on and I've seen what they're doing. And they're also building a portfolio designed to weather both the ups and downs of the economic cycle. So thanks to Levi. Thanks to Harbor Capital for sponsoring today's episode and helping me on my never-ending quest to make the Michael Girdley Show a break-even podcast. I'm so excited to do that. And thanks again to those guys. Check them out at harborcap.com. and here, back to the episode. Coming to you live from Corpus Christi, Texas, which by the way, Justin, thanks for being here. Um, I have managed to insult Corpus Christi basically on every podcast episode I've ever done. Uh, it's, it's, it's a streak I have going on, but thank you, thank you for being here.

Well, I think it's fortuitous. I was meeting with a guy today who's moving to Corpus and I told him I'm sorry and he was like, please don't remind me. So, you know, that's what I was doing today as well. It's an easy town to pick on.

For those of you don't know, Corpus Christi is like 2 hours away from San Antonio, which according to most of the universe is 5 hours away from the rest of the universe. Uh, you know, so that, that tells you something about Corpus Christi. But one time I came down here, and it's on the water, it's on the Gulf of Mexico, and, uh, I'm like out at their like yacht club. Have you been to the yacht club that's in the harbor? It's kind of like the yacht club they went to in, uh, in what's the name of the golf movie with the— anyway, don't worry about that. The one where they— Caddyshack. The one, it is basically, it still looks like that. And so I'm talking to the guy, I'm like, you know, we're so excited about what's going on in San Antonio. San Antonio is like killing it, it's doing super great. And he's like, that's not happening in Corpus Christi. It's like this old rich guy. And he goes, Son, Corpus Christi is where good ideas go to die. I was like, whoa, whoa, you do not want to use that for the Chamber of Commerce.

So, well, you were in the, you were in the yacht club though. You had to have somebody get you in, didn't you?

They had amazing fried shrimp. That's all I remember about it. They were like ginormous, ginormous shrimp. So, so you and I have bonded over that.

So you go down regularly?

No, I don't. I actually don't like it here that much. The beach is not that great and it's too hot. So, so anyway, I agree with all that. Yeah, I, I got here an hour ago. I've been sweating the whole time. Um, so, so I think you and I have bonded a lot over San Antonio. So I never really— you asked me why I was in San Antonio. Why are you in San Antonio?

Uh, when I got out of law school, I contacted the guy I wanted to work for, and he had 6 offices, and he recommended I move here, and I did. Sight unseen.

Sight unseen. So what was your first impression when you got here and how old were you?

So I moved here when I was 24 or 25. Uh, I mean, my, my first impression is kind of my current impression. It's just an easy place to live. It's an easy place to make friends and, you know, there's not much pretense to it. It's, it's a really nice place to be.

Yeah. So what, I mean, what do you, so there's a trade-off to that, right? Like if you're in a place that's easy, then a lot of times people just take it easy, which I think you and I talked about on your podcast, which by the way, thank you for having me on your podcast. Also, thank you for making me feel really insecure because you haven't recorded any podcasts since I was on your podcast. So, but yeah, well, I listened to it and the first 3 minutes you're like, hey Girdley, what's your favorite restaurant in San Antonio? And I was like, I love that the taquerias exist. And then you're like, which one? I was like, oh, I don't actually eat there. I just love that they exist. I just I think it's great that they're there. I just, I think it's great that we have them. I don't actually eat there. I mean, I can't eat that stuff. I'm old.

You're not built like a guy who eats at a lot of taquerias. I kind of am, but you're not.

I do not. I do not. I, I don't know. I'm losing weight, which I'm pretty excited about. I'm under 230. So 6'5", 230.

So I saw your posts about your, your weight goals. That's, you have really detailed goals.

Yeah, do you, do you think that reflects a personality problem, or—

I mean, yeah, casting stones is probably not the best thing I should be doing right now. Uh, no, it's just a very good personality problem for me. Yeah, well, be between you and your therapist or significant other.

Um, yeah, I've been to a therapist a few times. It's, it's been a bizarre experience because I'll just walk in and I'll just be like, okay, well, here's who I am and here's what I think about stuff. And then they're like, are you okay with that? I was like, yeah, it seems going pretty good, I'm fine. And they're like, okay, we'll finish early.

Just kind of a tune-up.

Yeah, like, you seem cool, no problems. So nothing's really bothering you? No, I mean, I got stuff, but it's no big deal, you know, it's like everybody's got problems.

So, so just, uh, just to check in, um, yeah, there's family members involved. So trade-offs of San Antonio. Yeah, I mean, uh, So for my industry, I don't think there's many bad trade-offs. And really, from a personal perspective, I didn't think there was when I moved here. You know, now as I get a little older, you know, we don't have as many flights as some places, but, you know, we've got a, we've got a lot of things here that bigger cities don't have. And some of the trade-offs are things that really don't affect me in a real way. I'm not doing a lot of international travel. I'm not upset that our museums don't you know, compete with Houston because our zoo does and our botanical garden does and a lot of other things do. So I mean, you know, trade-offs I think start to get into kind of the minutiae of a big city when you really think.

Yeah, we went to the San Antonio Museum of Art. We went to the San Antonio Museum of Art last weekend. My wife and I just had like a 2-hour date afternoon. I was like, let's go to SAMA. It's 140 degrees outside. Let's go. Stop our brains from cooking inside of our skulls and go to our museum. And you know what it was? It was like going to one of those buffets where they have like a little, like, 3 sections from every single culture. Like, it was amazing, you know? Like, so you go to like, you know, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, or you go to the, you know, the Asian Museum of Art in, in, in, in Houston, and you're like, man, like, after an hour and a half of looking at, you know, contemporary Asian art, you're kind of over it. At our museum, you know, because it's got to represent all this stuff and they bring kids through there, so they want to expose them all these things. Like it was great. You just get one room of like some pottery and then you're on to the next thing. I just, I loved it. I was just, it was like, it was like the, the Asian buffet of art.

It was wonderful. Yes, Sam, I don't think if people have never been, a day's not enough time to see it. I mean, you really need a lot of time at that museum.

So my, my wife used to docent there and, uh, she told me that when they would have, and so the docents would like help, uh the classes like come through, so they bring kids' classes on buses. And she said they had one picture that was like of an elderly woman in a bathrobe, and she was nude head to toe. And so they would— at the time they had, um, the classes, the schools would request to be routed around that picture so they wouldn't actually see it. I was like, oh, that's like the cutest— that's like the cutest San Antonio thing ever. Like everybody just so uptight about And then you— and then the funniest thing is you walk past and there's like a, a very, you know, like an older woman naked, and that wasn't okay. Then right next to it was like a patero, which is like a young woman naked, and everybody's like, great, no problem. I was like, this is something wrong with this. So wrong.

Yeah, yeah. I have not, uh, I don't, you know, I don't know if I can recall any single specific thing I saw there other than just kind of being overwhelmed because I thought it was going to be a small collection, and it is not a small collection at that museum.

Yeah, and it's in a great setting. It's like an old brewery. Like, it's really— some of our best stuff is in old breweries. Yeah, that's what I'm about to say today.

Have you kept up with what the zoo has going on?

No, what does the zoo have going on? We have a world-class zoo for anybody listening. I think the same too.

Yeah, and they just got, uh, $10 million in the bond, and they're actually one of the beneficiaries of the old Pearl Development TERS. So that TERS money, tax money, is now going to go to the Botanical, the Witte, the Zoo, and Sunken Garden. So they're actually going to have some city money for the first time, and bond money. Uh, they're putting in a big gorilla habitat. They're gonna like 5 times or 10 times expand the size of the elephant habitat. Uh, the entrance— there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there.

Yeah, that sounds really good. So yeah, I mean, for people listening, the San Antonio Zoo, I think, is world-class. I mean, is it— do you think it's the best zoo in Texas? It's got to be pretty close.

And I mean, it wins a bunch of awards. It doesn't have the number of visitors as Houston does, but it wins awards.

Yeah, it's not really fair to compare with Houston. They have like 3 times the number of people, but like it's in an amazing venue. It's like an old carved out like limestone quarry. And, you know, it's just got this like super cool feel to it. It doesn't feel like a lot of zoos where you're just like out in a field with concrete. And then they've brought in like typically your zoo is like somebody who's like grown up in their career, like work with monkeys and they suck at building like, you know, something that's a good experience. And ours appears to be run by a guy with amusement experience. So like he comes from the entertainment side of things and I think it really shows in the product.

Yeah, he's a real transformational leader, I think, because, you know, it used to just be run by zoo people and now we realize and we approach it as though it's an experience for people. So all ages, all types of entertainment.

Yeah, I have a pitch for you. I think it's an amenity that San Antonio needs, and I think we're the right people to do it. Are you ready for this? Okay, are you sitting down? Yes, you are, because you're, because you're on video, I can tell. Okay, so I was watching this YouTube video. This is— these are two things happened to me lately. I was watching this YouTube video, and this comic, uh, decided, you know, in London they have like 6 airports, right? Because they're it's not big enough to have one serious airport. So they have Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, and then one called Luton, which Luton is not really even really Luton Airport. It's L-U-T-O-N. It's actually 60 miles away from downtown London. Like, it's just basically like, it's like it would be like San Antonio International Airport featuring Austin. Like, it just doesn't work, which is 70 miles away. So, so this guy, he spent £4,000. And what he did was he went and he went and ordered a bunch of like white, like vinyl cloth. Okay. And he cut it out and he went to an airport called Gatwick, which is the number 2 airport. And he found the flight path on the way in. And he made like a, you know, like the Hollywood sign, like the big white letters. He made that. But the sign at Gatwick Airport, he said, welcome to Luton. Luton is 60 miles away. And so he did it so when the passengers were landing to this airport, they would see the sign that's like, welcome to Luton, which is just, which is like a total, like, like totally wrong. So he did this and the pilots start to see it and then the passengers start to see it. And then for the first few days, the passengers are like freaking out. They're like, they're doing the call button and stuff. And it's just like the most British prank.

Ever.

And then it goes viral, like, on the internet. So if you have a chance, go on YouTube, do the Welcome to Luton prank of what this guy did. And it was just awesome. It was just so cool that this guy did it. And of course, there's some, like, stick-in-the-muds that think it's terrible. But, like, like, I think, like, that was super neat. So I saw that, I saw that. And then I drove back across Texas, and we stopped at the Cadillac Ranch, right? You're familiar with Cadillac Ranch? It's like you know, this artwork that's outside of Amarillo, and it's got these like just random cars that everybody— that some artists put there. And you go out there and you can spray paint them and hang out and walk around in a field. Like, it's just this neat art project in the middle of nowhere. And so I was like, we need this in San Antonio. Like, we have so much straight-laced stuff. All the things you just listed were super straight-laced stuff. We need like somebody— we need some group of people to be coming up with creative things that you're just like, Oh, this is a place with a sense of humor and some character and likes to have a little fun. And like, I think our first project needs to be to find the flight path into the San Antonio airport and put up a big-ass Welcome to Austin sign. Like, I think that's our first, our very first one. And I think we're the right people to do this. And then I think we're also the right people to get kicked out of San Antonio.

If I recall, you maybe live close to the flight path, don't you?

I live under the flight path, which is not great. You actually— you need to be off the side. You got to be off the side of the flight path so they can see you outside the window.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where that would be. I'm open to all suggestions though. Uh, I think speaking of immersive art, have you been to that pinball or whatever they call that thing, the like immersive art experience?

Downtown in the Travis Park building or something else.

That sounds right. What's the name of it?

I don't know. I can Google it. Immersive Arts San Antonio. Have you been? Yes. Hopscotch.

How was it?

It was called Hopscotch. It was cool. I mean, it was— it's—

it's—

yeah. Yeah. I think we need more stuff like that.

Yeah.

I think it was amazing. I mean, I think the business model is pretty challenged. I don't know how they're going to make it. You know, it's, it's downtown, which is, you know, under COVID struggled a lot. And it's nowhere near kind of the core touristy area, and the parking kind of sucks. But other than that, it's great. So I really loved it.

Have you ever been to Meow Wolf in Santa Fe?

So true story. Last week, I went on a cross-country mountain biking trip with my buddy who turned 50. And his only stipulation of the whole thing was when we got to Santa Fe, we weren't allowed to go to Meow Wolf. He refused. He thinks it's just— he's an Englishman living in San Antonio. He thinks it's— he thinks it's just garbage noise and totally lacking in artistic merit.

Did y'all ride to Santa Fe?

No, we— so my buddy's grand scheme was to fly to Salt Lake City And everybody was going to buy antique Range Rovers and then we were going to drive them back to San Antonio to celebrate his birthday, stopping each day to mountain bike for 2 or 3 hours in the kind of mountain biking hotspots on the way back. So there's Moab. We stopped at a place called Phil's World. There's some famous stuff around Santa Fe and then Palo Duro Canyon. Like those are the 4 stops over 5 days. So it turned out that only he bought a Range Rover because not everybody else was too chicken to try to drive an antique Range Rover cross-country. And then we got stuck in a bunch of wildfires. So, but yeah, part of the way when we stopped the day, we stopped in the day to mountain bike in Santa Fe. He said, we're not going to Meow Wolf.

Are there lots of antique? Are there a lot of antique Range Rovers available in Salt Lake City?

Evidently, for some reason he found them there and that was the place we were going to go. Um, yeah.

So no mountain biking.

Uh, there's great mountain biking in the area. You can go to mountain bike in Park City and all that kind of stuff. But, um, yeah, I flew out there. I rented a Suburban. I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna try to drive a Range Rover. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was amazing.

Did y'all get to mountain bike anywhere?

Yeah, we did. Um, we did Moab. We did a night ride in Moab at midnight at a place called Slickrock, which is pretty famous. And then we did— there's one of the most famous mountain bike trails in the world, this thing called the Whole Enchilada, that's basically 30 miles and 6,000 feet down. We did like the middle 40% of it. And so that's basically like— that kind of mountain biking is like really different because what you're doing is you're just like— it's like yoga, like you're holding yourself steady. On a mountain bike for like 2 hours, but basically just rolling downhill. And then we went to a place outside of Durango called Phil's World, which is the best mountain biking trail like I've ever been on in my whole life. So it's pretty fun. So problem with Palo Duro is everybody was tired by the 5th day and they're just ready to go home and see their family. Plus we went to one of those like eat your own, eat 72-ounce steak places and you get a t-shirt. The night before and we ate at 9 o'clock, so everybody was super hungover. And my buddy ordered 2 pounds of Rocky Mountain oysters and I was like, "Why are we eating this? Aren't we going to feel bad tomorrow?" Nobody cared. I'm sweating because I'm down at the Corpus Christi area and it's freaking hot here. But no, I mean, it was interesting because Rocky Mountain oysters, we were super worried that they were going to taste funny or whatever. And the lady's like, She was like a young, a young waitress and she's like probably 22 and she's like, they taste like chicken. Don't worry about it. So they— and she was right. They taste like chicken.

If you bread and fry anything, it kind of tastes the same.

Tastes the same. All right. So the Mary Prankster's idea, I want you to noodle on that because I think we could transform this city and get run out of here as quickly as possible.

Yeah, I don't know how much San Antonio likes a big joke. But we should, we should test. I don't think, you know, nobody does that here.

Nobody does. No, I think it'd be awesome.

So, uh, we haven't— we have a mutual friend in Ryan Pape, and, uh, speaking of biking, he sponsored the big, uh, you know, the Tour de France ride during Fiesta. His company sponsored it, and Alberto Contador was here. To kind of, uh, whatever. He was an ambassador to it. So Ryan's group got to take him to dinner one night at a sponsor's dinner, and apparently he ate fried oysters thinking they were fried chicken, and he's deathly allergic to oysters. So San Antonio almost killed a Tour de France winner. Uh, that would have been a good story. Not a good prank, but a, but a big story.

Ah, that's amazing. Yeah, hopefully— that would be terrible. That's some inside baseball. I heard also his English was very brutal. I heard it was very difficult for people to understand him.

That, that, that was part of the problem in explaining that they were oysters. And, uh, he kept eating them thinking they were chicken because it said chicken fried, but they said he had to be shuffled off and, uh, maybe medicated.

That's super rough. So have you ever gotten into cycling or no?

So gotten into, I mean, that's kind of a hard— I did do the, the Tour de France thing. I rode the 25-mile. But I also did King William pretty significantly the day before, so I wasn't sure I was going to make it. I did make it. I did not feel good, and then I ended up getting multiple flat tires. My chain fell off, and I almost had to walk my bike across the finish line, but I did finish.

What, uh, what kind of bike do you have?

So I have a road bike that was in great shape. I'd got it tuned up, but I didn't get it fitted And so the week before when I rode it, my hip hurt. So I figured I'll just ride my mountain bike, but I didn't tune it up or really even do anything. I just threw it in my truck and drove out there and it was not in good shape.

Not in good shape. Um, so the road bike is too small for you. You can't fit in your road bike.

It's not too small, but I just need to get it fitted.

Ah, super cool. All right. And then who—

now I have a professional fit.

Who fixed your flat tires? You did that yourself or some guy on a motorcycle, one of the help?

So it wasn't flat. He just kept airing it up and then I would go like one more mile and then he would air it up again and another mile. So the last 4 miles were pretty slow. It was a slow leak.

Got it. All right. So for people that don't know, this is—

but I did finish.

Good for you. I did the— I did the slightly longer version. I didn't do the longest version. I did the slightly longer version. So it was all right. 60, uh, the 60, yeah, the 100 kilometers. So that was pretty fun. Yeah, lots of hills. But, um, yeah, so like we, we showed up and we were confused about where to park. So I ended up like starting like 30 minutes late. So the first hour and a half, all I was doing was passing people like a jackass. Like you feel like such a jerk, uh, when you're— because some of those people were like really working hard to do 25 miles and I'm like Hey, how's it going? You know, I'm just going to blow past you at twice your speed.

So, you know, Ginobili, uh, Ginobili made good time.

So world famous NBA player Manu Ginobili was in the— he did it.

Yeah. And then one, some guy that was even taller than him was in his group and they were, they made really good time.

Where did they do the 100 mile or what did they do?

No, I think they did the 25.

Oh, just the 20.

And our mayor, I believe, started the 25, but he just went like a mile and bailed out.

What?

Because he had other super jacked, he said.

Yeah, he's super jacked.

How do you do that?

Oh man. Yeah, I think— I feel like that's such a cool—

that was good for the city.

Yeah, I mean, I, I feel like— and maybe I'm interested in your opinion on it— I feel like our mayor, who seems like a very good person, had such an amazing window of opportunity to try to transform the health prospects of San Antonio, given how healthy he is and how much he likes to work out. And like, I never hear it talked about anymore.

Yeah, I don't either. And I don't know if you ever kept up on Fort Worth. That mayor there, she was an— she was kind of an older lady, if I recall, and she really transformed Fort Worth from a health and fitness standpoint. Um, it's really kind of neat case study if you read about it. But yeah, Nuremberg is even, you know, he's a picture of health too, so he could have been probably pretty, you know, transformative in that. But yes, there's some other issues in his tenure.

Yeah, the COVID thing, speaking of health, was kind of challenging. But like, whenever there's like a joke about like, my mayor is more jacked than your mayor, it's pretty— it's pretty much, pretty much he's like the poster boy for that.

I think he used to be a personal trainer, maybe.

Jeez.

Before city council.

So he went from personal trainer to city council. That means there's, there's hope for us in terms of our political aspirations.

I think that's right though. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he was mostly doing personal training prior to running for city council.

Fascinating. So would you ever run for political office?

Do you know different?

No, I have no idea. It sounds great. It sounds like a good story.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's true. I mean, he went, he went to Trinity and then, and then I think was doing a lot of personal training. Uh, would I? I mean, I think if the stars aligned, I would consider it, but I wouldn't have any interest. I mean, that, like, city council and stuff, those people are so overworked. And I mean, you know, it's kind of a thankless job.

Yeah, well, I only recently did we start paying them more than like $25 a meeting. Like, like it was just, it was unbelievable. Unbelievable. I still think it's like $50, $50, $50 a meeting.

No, no, no. I think, I think they make a yearly salary of $50,000. But like Mario Bravo and I, you know, we're pretty friendly. And the hours those people work, the ones that really want to do their job and really be in it, I mean, it's a, it's an all-day, everyday job.

Why do you think that many Sanhedonians don't understand what that means to be a politician? Like, that's a— that is, that is a— if you're doing it right, like, you know, I don't know Mario, but it sounds like he's the type of politician we want, who's somebody who sees himself as a community servant. Like, I am just so confused why people don't get— wrap their head around you have to pay somebody a living wage to ask them to do like a full-time job, like as a public servant. Do they expect people just to work for free, or like what What doesn't work there?

I think that whole— and I am in no way a historian of San Antonio politics, but I think for so long, uh, you know, there was kind of that Good Governance League, and there was sort of this group of people that took over a lot of elected office that were also independently very well off. And I think from a voter standpoint, if you're looking at electeds that are already, you know, in the haves category, you probably aren't interested in making sure they get paid But as a voter, you should probably think, I want the everyday guy in there looking at my concerns. And to do so, we're going to have to pay some people to be in there because we don't just want the elites. But San Antonio, I think, has a really interesting political history that includes a whole lot of strange, you know, coalitions that sort of took over local government for a while. And I'm sure there are remnants of that in voter attitudes to this day.

Yeah, super interesting. So one thing you asked me, which I thought would be a really interesting podcast of San Antonio political history. Yeah, I did read our county judge's book of our political history. It was kind of boring. Oh, cool.

So I read Scully's book and it was not boring.

It was amazing how, like, if this is our former city manager who was like, went to war against local public service unions. And they just set out to destroy her. And it was amazing to me how terrible her publicist did in terms of getting her out there. She should have sold 2 million books and she sold 20,000, I think. Like, why she was not on Fox News— like, well, no, I— it at the time actually was really, really poignant, right? Like, like, at the time Illinois was having budget problems because they like have all these pension obligations and everybody would just give in to the unions and stuff like that and not balance the needs of the unions with the public. And, you know, like, I was like, oh man, like, she could totally parlay this into bigger things. And like, the book got written and then she's at the beach somewhere. Like, it's fascinating.

I think she— I think she consults. I think she probably does okay consulting.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, she was right.

I mean, totally.

Yeah. Like, for those of you listening, we had a situation where like they did projections of what healthcare costs and the labor increases for fire and police were going to start to cost our city budget. It was like it was going to start to eat the entire city's budget like very soon if we didn't do stuff about it. And she stood up and like, and kind of what you expect in their contracts too, like We were—

we as taxpayers were paying to defend police officers or firefighters if they were arrested for domestic abuse. I mean, so as a taxpayer and as a city, we were taking positions in these fights. We had no— that's not a good look, you know. There were things that just shouldn't have been in there.

Uh, paying for people's divorces, like, that was like, are we really paying for some firefighter's divorce? Uh, it's just—

is education regardless of whether it had anything to do with the job.

Just nuts.

I mean, good for the unions to get it. It was just unsustainable.

I'm glad we ended up somewhere more sane, I think. Um, so you asked me when I was on your podcast, what if I could change anything about San Antonio, what would I change? I'm curious what your answer to that question is. And maybe you didn't ask me that question, but it sounds—

it sounds I don't remember asking that question. Uh, you know, I, I think the city should put more— yeah, no, I mean, I think the city should put more, um, there are things that I think our city really needs to help support and perpetuate. I mean, you look at the symphony right now, I'm not a symphony guy, but there are kids that could be. And our public theater is, you know, they're always cash-strapped, and it's our only professional theater in San Antonio that does lots of kids programming, programming. But for this bond, I mean, the zoo is going to be kind of slowed down for a long time. And these are things that in other cities, they get city support. And I wish San Antonio would do some— make some effort to really ensure that those organizations last. I'm not saying they should be fully supported, but there's a benefit to our city to have them here. And I feel like some of those things get lost, you know. And then just from a standpoint, I think the city really needs to do a better job in development. I mean, forever and ever development has been a pizza slice starting at the Pearl and moving, you know, kind of triangularly up through the city, it seems like. And we're, you know, look at Woodlawn Lake. I mean, there are all these just pearls in this city that are beautiful, and because they are not in sort of those corridors. They've just kind of been ignored, and I think that's unfortunate as well. We, you know, we should have a whole city approach to city government in a way that I don't think we have for a long time, but I think we're starting to at least in voice focus on.

Yeah, so Woodlawn Lake is, you know, this beautiful urban lake that we have. Why, why have we not made that what Lake Austin is to downtown Austin. Like, it just, you know, you can go out on that lake in Austin, you see these pictures of people, oftentimes beautiful people in skimpy, skimpy bathing suits out on paddle boats, like, or, you know, paddleboards. Like, why have we squandered such an amazing resource right in the middle of our town? Like, I don't know, it just, I don't understand it. Are people, are we, is it, is it full of things you don't want to swim in? Or what's the problem with Woodlawn Lake?

You know, I wonder, there's, there's likely an answer to it. Just like downtown was sort of stagnating for so long because you had these investors sitting on properties they wouldn't develop, and, you know, you have to wonder, is Woodlawn Lake area just kind of sat on by investors or people that own rental homes and won't update them and won't, you know, improve them? There's got to be an answer to it because just from an aesthetic standpoint, it's beautiful and it's way bigger than you expect, and they've got great, you know, Fourth of July party. And that whole area is kind of coming around, but it just seems to be coming around slowly.

Yeah, I don't know. These all sound like problems I don't want to work on. They seem really hard.

Well, between your podcast and Twitter, I don't know how much time you're going to have on your hands, Michael.

Uh, yeah, I'm trying, I'm trying. Um, okay, so is it your answer to— Uh, tweeting, I've really slowed down on tweeting. It's maybe like 3 or 4 a day and 1 or 2 threads a week. Yeah, just trying to make it sustainable. I mean, I think you see on Twitter these people that go in there and they go hard for a certain period of time and they'll disappear for like 2 months. And you see it, I think, also with like YouTube creators as well, like they disappear. And Mirko, who's quietly listening in and helping us make this podcast awesome, is like, I texted him today. I was like, dude, I don't— I think I need to slow down a little bit on production cadence because I don't think it's sustainable, you know? And I think that's, that's something I've really kind of been mindful of. And then I tweeted yesterday, like, I've tried to change my relationship both with Twitter and my phone recently to make them less addictive. So my phone, I actually put everything on black and white. I don't know, have you ever tried this? You got to try it. You got to try it. If you go to twitter.com/Girdley, you can see how to do it if you have an iPhone. If you have an Android, we have bigger problems to talk about. So I was at this conference. So what it does is a lot of the growth hacking that they've done on the iPhone to make you get more engaged with apps and And all of that happens because they play with colors. So you notice like red is the notification color that plays to your emotions. And if you take away those colors, it suddenly does less in terms of kind of playing with your brain and playing with those kind of impetuses that you have to do that stuff. I don't know why it works. I just know like if you experiment with it and everybody I know that experiments with going black and white is like, oh my God, like this device is not as compelling as it once was. Uh, you see it black and white, but like, there's, um, if you set it up right on the phone, there's a quick hotkey to change it right back to color. So I can do that if I want to. Um, or I could just sit down and wait till I get to my computer. It's fine. Maybe I'll just be present with my kids. Um, the other thing is I switched from the— on Twitter, I switched from the default being the algorithm which is the algorithm shows you stuff it thinks that it's going to give you the most kind of engagement. I switched from that to chronological based on followers. And so what that does is just shows you the latest tweets from your followers rather than the tweets it thinks you're going to want to engage with and spend more time on. Do you like that change more than the other? I like the, the new way much better because like my time when I— if, if I do pick up the app, and open it up, my time spent on Twitter has gone way down comparatively. Like, there'll be times where I just look at 12 tweets. I'm like, yep, none of these are interesting. I shut it off and come back to real life. Whereas there would always be something engaging when I went with the algorithm.

You know, I'm not— Twitter is just kind of something I, I'm a voyeur on. I don't really use it much. I just kind of— it's the best place to find news. It's always the fastest place to see the news.

I think for people our age, this is the conclusion I've come in the last quarter. Are so thinking about this. I think most people our age have a radical aversion to being their whole selves and sharing on a platform like Twitter or social media, and especially Twitter. I think that it is a huge opportunity lost. I mean, for me it's not because I'm like one of the rare 40-somethings on there who's actually out talking about stuff and trying to be real on the platform, um, which creates like this huge gap of stuff, right, where there's like there's a bunch of millennials talking, but then like a 40-something like waltzes in. I'm like, guys, like, it's a little different than what you're saying, just speaking as being 47 as opposed to 27. But so that creates an opportunity for me. But like, like I see over and over again, people our age are just so reluctant to do it, and I think it's such an opportunity lost for them. It's not that hard. It's not that hard. It just requires a mental leap, I think, for people our age.

I mean, I just feel like whatever I have to say is probably bullshit anyway, so I just, you know, I let people live their own life. And, you know, if I saw something that I actually thought I had an insightful point on, I probably would make it. But, uh, you know, Twitter's— Twitter's brutal too. I mean, you might pour your heart out and all you're going to get is a bunch of people tearing you to shreds.

So like, oh yeah, like, so that's— I don't think— I don't think you do it that way. I don't think you like Nobody gives a shit about my problems. They give a shit about their own problems. And so where, where Twitter becomes helpful is when you go in there and you try to provide things to make their life better, right? And not worry so much about how I'm going to improve my life, right? Like, but by sharing this thing that I've learned or that I've done or like I've experienced, it gives them information that's going to help them be better. So the so what is really applicable But yeah, you're totally right. Some random whatever, like, hey, my weekend was terrible, or, you know, my employee quit today. Like, nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares. Like, that's not— it's real life.

Nobody scooped a guy on his own boss getting fired. I shot him a text one day and I was like, man, are you going to be okay with your job with so-and-so losing his? And he was like, where did you see that? I was like, it was just on Twitter. And then he called me 20 minutes later. He was like, I just told our whole office our boss got fired. Because you saw it on Twitter first. I mean, and this was a U.S. Attorney's Office. One of the U.S. Attorneys had been fired by Trump, and a buddy of mine worked there, and he just was out. It was on Twitter, and none of the lawyers knew it. Wow.

Well, since you segued to lawyering, I have— I want to ask you about lawyering. You're the only personal injury attorney I've ever sat down and talked to. So, um, what is that like to do that job? I'm super fascinated because All I know is the 444 guy and then that guy who spent $12 million on his daughter's quinceañera. So tell me, those are the two most famous in town. Yeah. Well, and as a business owner, it's just like, oh, like these guys again. So anyway, I was curious. So what is it like to be a personal injury attorney?

Well, so from a business standpoint, it's going to be kind of one of the least familiar for you. We are a cash-out business. So we fund— any other kind of lawyer, their clients pay for their time and for their expenses. Yeah, so from a business standpoint, we fund our cases. It means we might be out X amount of dollars, which could be six figures, for two or three years, and we get our money back on the back end. So that kind of answers a lot of people's questions about frivolous lawsuits. What lawyer in their right mind is going to put money out that they're never going to get back unless there's a recovery? you know, into a dumb case. So that's always kind of just been one of these made-up things. But from like a standpoint of a job and a passion, I mean, I have a job where I get to be self-righteous and I get to be in the position of representing people that were wronged, you know. I mean, I think if you're selling a widget, it's hard to be really excited about a widget. Uh, if you're representing a human being who you think was screwed over, it's very easy to be passionate about it. And for me, I mean, I'm, I'm probably one of the few lawyers you're going to meet who really enjoys this because it is contentious and it's combative at times. But I mean, I get a job where I get to actually be passionate and that is part of the job. Yeah.

Well, I was in the office for the guy with the 444 billboards and like I walked around and it was just like a cubicle farm of paralegals. And best I could tell, like, there's a couple of supervising attorneys and a bunch of paralegals, and there it looked like there were people just running through filing suit, writing letters, and making claims against insurance companies. So that's become like a— it looked to me like a factory for like shaking down business people. And this is— I'm an entrepreneur, so I apologize for my loaded language in advance. I'm sure you're doing it.

Somebody asked me once, they're like, well, like, how did this Someone like Jeff Davis, he has the volume of phone calls he gets is probably why you saw so many cubicles. I mean, just, just the phone answering alone. But then a lot of the stuff they do is they'll try to negotiate those without ever filing a lawsuit. So that's a big part of those volume guys is their pre-litigation. So they're, they're basically trying to figure out where everybody is and then they'll try to negotiate with the insurance company.

So you have the high volume guys like him, the Wayne Wrights, and these are all— if you're in San Antonio, you've seen all these. And then what's the name of the guy that's out of Corpus here that did the $15 million Kinsinera? It's like the biggest name. Anyway, Hinton. Yeah, Thomas J. Henry. Yeah. So those, those guys are the segment of the market where it's just a machine, right? They're just like paying big dollars for billboards and just top of the funnel, convert that into dollars at the bottom. Rinse, rinse, wash, repeat. Then I gotta imagine there are other people in the universe of personal injury folks that, I mean, you, you don't practice that because I've never seen your face on a billboard. Um, like what, what is the rest of the universe of, of kind of people doing what you do look like beyond those kind of factory guys?

On the other end, I mean, you're going to get the guys who are, you know, scraping by and take any case that they can get their hands on and try to squeeze. Um, you know, I, I consider us sort of a boutique firm. We, only do cases that require a lawsuit. So if we fi— if we get a case that's getting filed, we keep a small number of cases. Probably a third are referred by other lawyers to us because either they're complicated or expensive or they just— it's outside their wheelhouse. Uh, but then I do some kind of pointed web marketing, which is enough to keep, you know, us happy and fed here. I don't have, I don't want a big farm. I don't want volume. I don't want that headache.

So you don't, you don't want to have the big volume like those guys do. Just why is that just a yucky feeling or what, what is it about that that's unappealing to you? Cause they're making a lot of money, but you don't seem right motivated.

Right. Well, so it's kind of hit or miss, right? Like I've got some friends that are big advertisers and I won't say who they are, but they require one or two monster cases a year for them to actually make a lot of money, as you would say. The rest of it's just kind of feeding the beast. I mean, you build such a big operation, there's kind of just the, the big amount of money needed to keep it going, and then outside of that, you've got to have the additional, um, whatever it is, cash flow from a big settlement or something like that. So they do all make a lot in revenue I just don't think that always translates into their pocket like people think. Yeah.

So what type of personality, you know, say somebody graduating from law school, what type of personality or disposition do you think attracts them to personal injury? Like what, if you met somebody, what sort of characteristics would you look for them in an aspiring lawyer to do what you do?

So those are kind of two questions. What do I think attracts people? I think they see those billboards and things like that. And it attracts a lot of people who think it's it's, you know, it's hitting the lottery. Um, I want somebody who's smart and works hard because like in any industry, I think especially in service industries too, or professional industries I guess we would say, but we're kind of service too, you get a lot of people who don't work very hard and you get a lot of people who maybe are plenty smart but they're lazy and don't care to know the new stuff or stay on top of it, you know. And it's been hard to find hard-working young lawyers. Um, I don't, I don't know what that's a testament to. Maybe I'm terrible at hiring, but it has been hard.

Yeah. Do you think there's some— I mean, one thing I've seen is some, some adverse selection bias for hiring in San Antonio. Like, you know, the thing that, the thing that gravitated you to San Antonio, which is you can have a pretty easy life here and do really well. Um, yeah, that's also a curse to some extent. You end up attracting a bunch of people who are like, well, you know, it's pretty easy life. Don't want to work that hard. And maybe I wonder, I wonder how many of the hard workers end up in New York or whatever.

You know, one of my really, my closest friends, a lawyer in New York, and that guy works crazy hours and it's just kind of par for the course.

Yeah. Yeah. Everybody, everybody I run into in New York ends up kind of that way. It's, there's just some kind of mindset that's shared where everybody's just on the hustle. Um, it is funny to see those people when they kind of wash out and you're like, They live on a lake in Austin. And it's like, okay, like, that's just, that's it. And I was at a conference last week, and there was a guy who had worked at a hedge fund for a dozen years or so. So he was pretty well off. He was kind of post-economic. And he came up and pitched me on this whole idea that at first blush seemed like one that was like an investing and money-making scheme. And then I realized he was just trying to fit like finding your whole life story and like your purpose into like some sort of investing thing so he could still hang out with his friends. Like, it was just like the most bizarre mental gymnastic thing. And he's like, and I live in Austin. I gave up on New York because it was too stressful. And I was like, oh man, this is really hard.

But if you can make it in New York, I mean, as they say, you can kind of make it anywhere, I think.

Yeah. Well, I did just, you know, I have two younger folks that work with me And both of them just, you know, they originally were in San Antonio. They left during COVID because they just couldn't find a peer group in San Antonio, and then they ended up in Austin. And then I asked them, why are you moving from Austin to New York? And they just moved to New York, and they said they felt like in both San Antonio and Austin, like, they wanted to be more achievement-oriented. And either San Antonio, you were real and not that interested in achieving, or you were in Austin and you were fake and not that interested in achieving and did a lot of talking, and they wanted to go to a place where it was, yeah, different than most of those. And I was like, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna argue with your, with your diagnosis of South Texas. But that was why they ended up in New York. They were like, we want to be part of the vibe here. Pretty, it's pretty crazy.

I went to a bachelor party with a bunch of guys from New York that all had, you know, Ivy League master's degrees or Ivy League law degrees. And I didn't understand what half of them did. You know, one's in a very like unique investing situation where they buy distressed debt. The other guy is trying to do like distressed real estate investment in like Promise Zones in Detroit. And it just seemed like they all had these like real grand ideas. But you could also tell none of them had really hit it. There's just so many opportunities in somewhere like New York for all this kind of— you've got an idea for it, you can probably find somewhere to sell it.

Yeah. Well, there's— there is a theory that, you know, in marketplaces like— so, you know, you have marketplaces of dating markets or you have talent markets or you have entrepreneurial markets, right? There is— there is an idea that the bigger the market gets, the more you will attract bad actors. So like a place like San Antonio, let's say you come in and you're a bad actor and you come to San Antonio. And you, uh, you will get discovered pretty quickly because in a small community there's no place to hide. Everybody will talk about you very quickly, and next thing you know, you're getting run out of town on a rail. But if you go to New York and let's say you're a scumbag womanizer, you can hide really well because you can go a long time before you run across two networks of women that have all discovered you're a terrible person. So like, there's this interesting idea that you're gonna potentially run into a higher higher prevalence of losers and bad actors in big markets like that. So maybe you were just hanging out with some people that are losers and bad actors, or, or they could just not know what the hell they're doing.

You know, I think it's— they were just sort of still young, and I think you're there, you're competing with sort of the cream of the crop at all age levels. So I think upward movement is harder in some of those cities too.

Yeah. All right. Um, all right, so So the economic model for personal injury, right? You're putting up X% and then you're hopefully keeping half of the settlement or half of the case if you guys end up winning. And is that, I mean, I know that because what is more typical in terms of, so you'll do expenses and then you'll split above that. Is that typically how it works?

So we usually get reimbursed our expenses first. Well, we usually get our fees percentage off the top, and then our expenses are reimbursed out of the client's portion. So we have a fiduciary relationship with our clients, so we can't go wild on expenses because we have to answer to them at the end of the day. But if you think about it in terms of a criminal defense lawyer, well, you're paying the guy by the hour, and if he has to hire an expert, you're paying for the expert. Um, so same thing for us. You pay for the— you pay for the expenses out of your portion only if there's recovery. Otherwise, we eat all the expenses.

Yeah, you take all the risk. Um, have you— yeah, or you've seen anything with your, your peers where some of these marketplaces where people like lawyers like yourself are syndicating deals or selling off, selling off portions, all or part of them, to people investing in, in these sort of deals? Is that happening at your scale, or is, is that still just kind of a pipe dream?

Texas doesn't allow Texas doesn't allow non-lawyers to own a law firm. Arizona does and D.C. does. So you are seeing some non-lawyer-owned law firms come into Texas now. There was a famous case of one in D.C. that ended up in Corpus, where you are right now, supposedly owned by a lawyer who turned out not to be a lawyer. He ended up in all kinds of criminal charges and stuff like that. So there have been some abuse on that, but you're starting to see states tolerate non-lawyer ownerships of law firms. What you are seeing is hedge funds try to cover your case costs, is what you're seeing, at some high interest rate. I've seen them propose advanced fees to the lawyers. So basically, we'll, we'll, we, you think that case is going to settle for X, we'll give you 20% of what you think your fees will be at a higher interest rate. So you're seeing the hedge funds and private equity try to figure out how to get involved. It's just not an easy in for them because they can't own a law firm.

Yeah. Are they working on changing the laws in Texas? Do you think that's, that's possible, or are you guys pretty well organized here to prevent that from happening?

I mean, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Who would be opposed?

Even in those other states, there has to be a lawyer owner Yeah.

Who would be opposed to it?

Probably, I mean, I'd kind of be guessing, but the big players in the market who are worried that the small players with outside money would be able to compete with them. That would be my guess.

Yeah, I could see how like the Thomas J. Henry's—

I mean, if you're smart about selecting cases. Yeah. I mean, if you're smart about how you intake cases, your return on investment is great.

So when you're subscale like you are, right, which is more boutique oriented, And you compare that to a Thomas J. Henry or the 444 guy. And for those of you that don't know, the 444 guy, that's his phone number. So he's got billboards everywhere. But so top of the funnel for them is pretty clear, right? They've got billboards. They pay a ton of money on advertising. They have a call center that basically goes through stuff. He likely has lawyers and a staff of analysts analyzing the deals. And then those get put into the machine. Yes or no. Here's what what our offer is. And so for a subscale firm like yours, that's more of a boutique-oriented thing, what does your funnel look like? Is it referrals or how do you go through finding cases that you're going to look at? And then kind of, could you, if you're comfortable, walk me through like how many leads do you get? How many of those do you process to the next stage down? Do you have a process to kind of analyze what you're going to take and not take?

So you're giving me a lot more credit. Than I should get because I don't know some of that. About a third of our cases are referred from other lawyers. Um, then most the rest of it comes in direct, either from word of mouth, because I do— so I do a lot of sex assault litigation on a civil side. There's really nobody else in town that does it. So a lot of that comes from individuals, lawyer support groups. And then I also do— I have a pretty big effort on SEO Um, and so the rest of it comes in through that, but then, you know, it would be like buying a custom door or buying a door at Lowe's. I mean, we are, we are not doing it the most efficient way in our office. Uh, I'm sure there are efficiencies around every corner we could do, but that's just not going to be my law firm. I'm never going to be one of those that's, well, I did it that way because it was faster.

Dig it. So you've talked to me for going on 3 hours now. These are all the extent of our social interactions have been 2 podcasts. Yeah, I was curious.

I saw you at the Spurs game.

At the Spurs game, yeah, we both had a couple beers, so I'm putting an asterisk next to that one. Yeah. But I mean, I think to some extent I listen to your outlook on stuff and you feel very different to me. And I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just like I have a different set of values and drivers than you do. So I was curious, who do you think is less of a fit in San Antonio? Is it me or you in terms of kind of those core values and attitudes? I'm from here, so I at least get, yeah, at least get that on the scoreboard for me.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think San Antonio has ever been concerned with being sort of the most efficient, the most structured place that there is, and I don't think it'll ever be. Um, you know, for me, in a large way, I think it is good because I— in terms of who my competition is in this city, a lot of people are putting weight in those things that I don't think convinces clients to hire you. Um, because if you are in a situation, you need a lawyer, you don't give a shit that they're able to keep expenses low I mean, you want somebody who's going to be hands-on, which, you know, go to, go to one of your taquerías you don't like. Those people are in there working with their hands and working their butts off and they're not buying prepackaged. You know, it's just I think San Antonio is kind of a hardworking town, even though it is relaxed. But people take pride in what they do.

Yeah. Well, I think that's one of the— like, I've had a difficult time trying to articulate this to people from out of town when they're like, oh, why is San Antonio great? And it's like the opposite of what you talked about with the New York City thing, right? Where you have all these people that are, you know, from these elite schools that have come to this place and they're all competing with each other and doing these very nuanced things. And you come to San Antonio and you have a lot of people that are like, eh, eh, you know, it's like, it's not that competitive, you know? And you're like, it's why I was, you know, I will occasionally run into this, this person, and they tend to be the same guy. They're like 33 years old. They're from San Antonio. They moved away. They've been doing business someplace else. Their wife is likely pregnant or close to pregnant. And they're like, should I move back to San Antonio? And I have to explain this like dynamic to them. I'm like, look, this is one of the benefits to you. You left San Antonio and you went to the big world of Dallas or LA or San Francisco or New York. New York or Boston, and you competed with some people that are pretty darn good at business because they really wanted to be good at business, and they've been doing it that way for a long time. And you come back to San Antonio, and it's kind of like competing with the B-team sometimes, you know? Like, people aren't that interested in really being like that amazing. And I'm still trying to, like, you know, like, explain that to them in a way that doesn't be diminutive to San Antonio, you know? So if you have any guidance there, let me know. But It's true. I mean, like, some people just don't try very hard here.

And I think just in the time I've been here, you see that, that, that bubble of really, um, sort of groundbreaking or top-of-the-class kind of entities have grown exponentially slowly, uh, since 2007 when I moved here. I mean, you know, Fortune 500 companies, we had some of the old ones, but now we've had some new ones kind grow here. So I think it— San Antonio didn't do anything fast, but I think it is definitely moving in the right direction. Um, and I think people would be real smart to come down here and take advantage of it.

I, I totally agree. So speaking of which, did you look at the news story where we added more people, uh, in San Antonio in 2021 than any other major city? So what are you, what are you doing to help with that? It's amazing how, uh, and by the way, people on Twitter like going on there and being like, I knew Girdley was popular, but I didn't know he was doing all of this. So what do you think's happening?

What am I doing to help the growth? Oh, I think it's the— it's the— it's still the affordable city in Texas that's an actual city. Yeah. Um, you know, I think the millennials want to be close to Austin, but they don't want to be in Georgetown or Cedar Park, and so they come here. So you're getting this really impressive, like, art scene that's kind of bubbling up again. And, you know, live music seems to be coming back, and you gotta have these, you know, people that are exploring with food and drink. It's that crowd of people, I think. And I think that's great for all of us who like to go out and, you know, live the city.

Yeah, I did. I'm curious to see if there's going to be a snapback. By the way, it's okay. So here's the US cities with the biggest numeric population growth from 2021. San Antonio, 13,626. Phoenix, 13,200. Fort Worth, 12,916. And then number 4, you would never guess, Port St. Lucie, Florida. I don't— I couldn't even find that on a map. I don't know if that's near Celebration, Florida. I'm not interested anyway. I'm curious if there'll be a snapback because—

surprising.

Fort Worth, I've started to hear kind of like I hear people talking about San Antonio. I was at a conference last week, like an investing conference. In Missouri. And I wasn't paying that close of attention, to be honest with you, because I don't like those big, big stage presentations. They rarely have any good content. So I was actually doing HR onboarding for like a new employee. No. Anyway, no, it was in black and white, so I wasn't interested. Anyway.

Okay.

So this lady's talking about like she was asked like, what are the cities you should look out for in the US? And, um, and she like casually mentioned San Antonio, and like I was in the front row and my head went like, whoop, like, who's talking about San Antonio? Um, but it was awesome. You're starting to— and she didn't mention the word Austin once. It was really interesting. Um, she mentioned San Antonio.

Oh, here's the bad side of this is I just read that half of all the houses purchased in the last year and— or last year were purchased by out-of-state investment firms or out-of-town investment firms. So it's not great to have huge population growth and then, you know, centralize the housing market in the hands of a few investors. That's going to screw up our market, I would think.

Yeah. I mean, there's also, there's also some theories that having more institutional-style investors owning more homes for rent, which, by the way, I have a buddy who just raised a fund to go build more homes for rent. So I think that trend's continuing. More and more because he hasn't broken ground on anything. So he's— and he's got a bunch of money to put to deploy on it. And that's mostly in Nevada. But anyway, you know, I think there is— there is an argument to be made that that kind of like institutional demand will help with increased building in places like San Antonio, which like, I don't know if you've been out to the southeast side lately. That's where I ride my bicycle a lot. There's a lot of new— a lot of new houses down like on I-37 and stuff. So anyway, I don't know what's going on.

Well, so I had Leo give me a tour of Brooks City Base, and he's— I don't remember what the exact statistics were, but it was something like there was an apartment complex and he said the average income of each apartment was like $88,000. Yeah, but they were all renting because there was no real housing stock down there. So they were all living in these apartments on Brooks, making good money, but there was just nowhere to move.

Right. At least the thing I like about San Antonio is you go drive around and they're still building new homes and new apartments everywhere. Whereas you go to California and these other places that are in trouble, I don't see it. So I'm very optimistic and I'm with you. Like, I'm super bullish on San Antonio. I think anybody not living here is either Argentinian or crazy. I think those are the two. I make the Argentine joke because Mirko's watching us from Argentina. Super cool, man. Well, what have I not asked you? Anything top of mind going on that we need to make sure we cover before we wrap up?

No.

Well, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. I think this will be our best San Antonio episode ever, mostly because it's our only San Antonio episode. Though I did—

Okay, good.

I did have a few weeks ahead, Megan Desai on. She's an— I don't know if you listen to that one, but she's an urban planner that moved to San Antonio from Austin, has started to raise a family here, so has kids, rides public transport, and is an urban planner by trade and lives over in Dignity Hill on the east side. Just like super cool story, like just what we need.

That and urban planning is actually pretty interesting. We could to talk to somebody that knows it.

Uh, she was super interesting about it, um, and very like, like, you know, I've gotten really into this generational studies stuff and understanding generational differences. Like, I was sitting there listening to her, I was like, oh, this is like the most millennial interview I've ever done. It was so cool. And then I realized me thinking that is like the most Gen X thing I've ever done. So it is what it is. All right, man.

You can be my next jury consultant to tell me how to talk to millennials.

Oh, yeah. Talk to them about their feels. It's really interesting. There's a bunch of stuff that I think people think about millennials that's just not true. Like, I think, you know, like, the funny thing is I've dug into it that came out was most people think that millennials really want to have a trophy for everything. And actually, they The opposite is totally true. Millennials have gotten really good about totally dismissing fake trophies and awards. And then you— then I was like, why did— why do people think this? Like, why do they have so many damn trophies? And it turns out the generation that really wants trophies more than any other generation is the baby boomers, who were the millennials' parents. The reason they kept giving them trophies was because they had to convince the millennials that they loved them. Right? Because they grew up— the baby boomers grew up in a time when kids were seen and not heard. So they were like, okay, um, like, how am I going to be the opposite for my children? I'm going to give them a shit ton of trophies because that's what I always wanted, because nobody ever gave them trophies. Like, it's just, just the most— if you think about all this generational stuff, it's just a pendulum swinging back and forth affecting the other one. Like, that's how all that went down. And so if you go talk to like a typical millennial, they're like, I don't want your fake-ass trophy. I don't want any of that. Like, give me genuine, bona fide, like, appreciation.

I've been to a bunch of conferences where they talk about sort of the generational differences, and one of the things that has been interesting is that once a jury goes into the back room forever and ever, the, you know, there would always be one older statesman or woman of the group that would, you know, people would kind of defer to because they were older and more wise. And then apparently, you know, the millennial generation, they're going to be very independent thinkers, regardless of if it pisses somebody off in the room. And the last case we tried, that was— I mean, it was a 22-year-old that ran the show. And, you know, we get to talk to the jury afterwards about how the deliberations went down and everything, and it was very eye-opening that some of these older ones were saying, well, she had real strong opinions and she's the one that led us to our verdict. It was kind of a different change. And, you know, instead of trying to pick off that one guy who you thought would be the one running the room back there, you've really got to pay attention to themes that will convince or persuade a millennial.

Yeah, super fascinating. Well, kudos to you. I would be terrible in a court. I just start trying to freestyle rap my arguments and stuff, go nowhere.

Yeah, well, that's better than some I've seen.

Oh, I've seen this. The worst is when you're in a, when you're in a trial or a hearing with the other side and you just realize how bad the other side's attorney is. And then you realize, like, skill in the courtroom is actually a big circle, and somebody could be so bad that it causes the judge to basically try their case for them in their head. I've done that before, especially when there's like a hearing and like a visiting judge comes in, like a federal judge, and he'll be— one time I was in a hearing, this may be like 15 years ago, and the judge stopped the other side's lawyer and was like, hey, you're doing a terrible job. And started, started cross-examining the witness for them. Like, it was just the— it was the— it was the best thing I'd ever seen. It was just like, and just sit down, I'm gonna do this for you. This is so good.

Or when a jury feels bad for them because they're so bumbling and stuff like that, it can end up being endearing.

Yeah, it's like, oh, we, we felt bad for him, so we went for his side. It's too bad.

Well, next time we get together, maybe we can get together not on a screen.

That does sound good. This is all good. How can my plethora of listeners follow along with your journey? So you don't tweet. What you do have your own podcast. So maybe we, maybe we talk to people about that.

Oh yeah. The Alamo Hour is the podcast available on, I think, all podcasts streaming platforms, but there's a lot now. So I'm not sure. Our law, our law firm websites, jahlawfirm.com or jahlawfirm.com. The Firm is kind of our handle on everything. So, um, you know, do a lot on LinkedIn. It seems to be like a, a better crowd to actually discuss, uh, work and whatnot. So we probably post more on that.

I need to start posting on LinkedIn. We'll see. It seems like a cesspool.

10 years ago it was kind of a joke. If you get on it now, it's everybody that says I'm never going to get on social media, that's just their social media now.

All right, fine. You just talked me into it. Just talk me into it. All right, brother, thank you very much.

They need your wisdom. Oh, thank you, Michael. I appreciate it.