Steve Ressler of Brydon Group - Searching with a Thesis: How to run an ETA Fund - The Michael Girdley Show Episode 34

Hey, Michael here. Welcome to the Michael Girdley Show, episode number 30-something. We're getting up there. It's going great and having lots of fun people on and learning a lot. So this week I had Steve Ressler, who's my buddy, and he is many hats. He's a former entrepreneur turned investor and is now getting into the world of fund management. They have started a new firm called Brydon, B-R-Y-D-O-N, that specializes in backing entrepreneurs who are buying companies. So they have an entrepreneurship-in-residence model that we talk through a lot. Spent a bunch of time there talking about how he's finding the right people, how he's thinking about who's the right fit and who isn't. So lots of cool stuff on hiring there. We talked about, is the sky falling? There's a lot of stuff on social media about how the economy's in big trouble. My observation is sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. So annual meetings for shareholders and can you learn there? and a bunch of different other stuff, uh, including should you hire people out of the Midwest because they are better employees. So, uh, with no further ado, here is Steve. I hope you enjoy the chat as much as I enjoyed having it with him. Hey, Michael here. Um, surprise sponsor for today's episode. Uh, today's sponsor is you, uh, the listener, and I have a favor to ask of you. Um, trying to get this podcast out in front of more people who would find it enjoyable, and the best way you could help me is by telling other people that you enjoy it. So whatever client you're on, so whether it's Spotify or Apple, go into their app and leave a review. The more stars you give me, the better it'll be. Put in some words in there about what you like, or maybe even what you don't like about the podcast, and that'll help us get the word out to more people. So give us a review, Apple, Spotify, and I'd be really grateful. Thanks a ton. Steve, thanks for being here, man. I'm so glad to talk to you.

Hey, appreciate it, man. Excited to be on the Michael Girdley Show.

Yeah, yeah, we got to— we rebranded and it's a ton of fun. I think I learn a lot on this format and I get to talk more, which is also fun. And then, you know, things— serendipity kind of happens with this format too, where we just kind of talk about stuff. But like, I definitely wanted to talk to you about something I brought up in the pre-show, which was like, at least on Twitter and in the media and everything, like we've gone from like okay sentiment to like suddenly the sky is falling. Like every startup is laying off people. Everybody's like, you know, all this bad stuff. You enumerated it when I said this, you're like, yeah, stock market's down, startups laying off stuff. Like the sky is falling according to Twitter. Like what do you think about all this? Like I, And the reason I think it's interesting is I just see like the Twitter and online discourse like go in this harmonic cycle that's like 60 Hz while the world just kind of goes like this, you know, like 1 Hz, right? And Twitter will go through boom and bust cycles in the time it takes people in the real world just to like, you know, mail a letter. So anyway, that's kind of—

I know it is a little bit too, like as you moderate your own like Twitter usage, you're like, Is this good for my mental health? Because it's like, you know, you're kind of like, you're waking up, you know, making a little latte at my home. I'm kind of like doing the dishes and like flipping through Twitter. I'm like, oh, the world's falling. What's going on? There's like wars, there's Supreme Court stuff, there's layoffs, there's like the stock market going down. And yeah, there's always— actually, I always have the question like how much to pay attention personally. Right. And I think, yeah. There's some argument that people on Twitter are like, just ignore the news, just do your race. I honestly don't 100% agree with that. You do have to live in the world and pay attention. And so that's— I don't know how you do that of what's the proper consumption of that stuff.

It's a really interesting question. So I think you're right. I think there is the right thing for people to have is an information diet. So the whole don't pay any attention to the news or what's going on in the world, I think you're right. That's a mistake. Don't do that. Imagine it's 2008 and like you can't get loans, right? Because of the housing crash, because of the mortgage crash, you know?

Yeah.

And you're like going out and living your life like it hasn't happened. You can't do that. Yeah. But at the same time, there's the other part of it, which is like, like I have, I have some buddies that literally this week will send me 30 texts of New York Times articles about bad stuff happening in the world. Yeah. And like, you have to wonder at a certain point is like, is the Belarusian election really going to do anything for you in terms of making your life better or worse? And I think the answer there is no. Like that kind of knowledge isn't going to be helpful to you. So that's kind of how I think about it. I mean, and then my friends, you know, call me a fascist.

Yeah. Well, I mean, part of it is like DC, you feel it too. Like, so I live in DC and I actually live up kind of by actually where the vice president lives. And so we're always kind of have motorcades coming in. Like you actually just feel the news. Very differently. And so I also think your location impacts it as well. Like even during, during like the peak of COVID right? Like helicopters are flying over my house. Like you just feel it in a visceral way. But actually, like I moved back to Ohio for 6 months where I'm from originally during the peak, just like 2 kids, 2-bedroom apartment doesn't work. And like my anxiety just dropped like 10, you know, by tenfold. Just be like, oh, like I'm in a suburb of Cincinnati and like there's a lot going on in the world, but there's no helicopters over my house, so I can calm down a little.

Yeah. Well, and so that always happens to me when I go to DC or like you're like near a military base or something, like there'll just be like some random thing where like 6 fighter jets like fly over and you're like, like, like a random, you know, a random helicopter, you know, like we were in DC that kept happening. There'd be like, you know, there's random like, like siren and you're like, what is going on? And it turns out, I mean, Nobody did anything except for us. Like, we were just random tourists totally spooked by this. But like, it's kind of like— I also live by the San Antonio airport, and once maybe a month or so, you know, I track— I'm kind of a nerd— I track the planes that fly over my house. They all emit signals. It's called ADS-B, A-D-S-B, and you can build your own antenna for it and stuff. It's like a fun little project. And, uh, but so like every plane will go over, and every once in a while you hear these like You'll hear two fighter jets scramble out of the San Antonio airport. They fly right over my house. And then you'll hear like a giant either prop plane or cargo plane fly over and it will have no transponder to it. It'll just be gray, nothing on it. And then two jets will, then you'll hear two jets take off behind it. And you can tell they're fighter jets by A, looking at them, but B, they have no like noise retardation whatsoever. They're just like super duper loud, like a, a Boeing 707 from 1955. Like they don't care. So this, that stuff does happen. And I'm just like, is this the big one? Is it happening now? Is the president scrambling?

And yeah, it turns out that it's not. But, um, but that is the pro, but it is the pro of like Twitter and having some of these signals. Like, it is kind of crazy how I feel you can get like a half a step of everyone, you know? Like just the other day, kind of more depressing news, but, um, where I was just like walking home from my kid Friday afternoon. And I see a bunch of cars flying, police cars. I'm like, "What's going on? This seems weird." No news everywhere or whatever. And I hop on Twitter and it's like, "Hey, something's going on about a mile from me." It ends up being an active shooter. But I got all the information on Twitter that kind of got me ahead of the rest of the— everyone else is kind of doing normal stuff. I'm like, "I'm going to take my two kids and go home." But everyone else was like 10, 15 minutes behind me where they kind of like got the key information. Oh, something's going on. And so that's like, that's, and I actually feel that a little bit way on like inflation and COVID. Like there's been a few things where I'm like, just by like reading Twitter, I'm like a half a step ahead, which is, which can be helpful.

Yeah. Well, and I think it's interesting because Twitter is not universally useful. So for some reason I've gotten on the, like Twitter automatically sends me a list like every couple weeks.

Okay.

And it's like people in your zip code— and I live in kind of this like, like upscale zip code in the middle of San Antonio, like it's one of the affluent kind of old money parts.

Yeah.

And it's like people in your zip code shared these things. And like, it's like drama in WWE, what happened on The Bachelor. Like, it's nothing like you're talking about. I'm like, oh, this is why people think Twitter is a cesspool, because most people are just like tweeting nonsense, right? And we haven't even gotten into the adult content yet. Like, that's This is a whole nother world I don't even go into. But yeah, every time I see that, I'm like, oh yeah, the corner of Twitter I live in is very, very special.

And your Spurs aren't any good, otherwise it would be a bunch of Spurs playoff talk if you guys were good.

It's really interesting what's happened with the Spurs. I mean, COVID hit the team really hard. Oh yeah, I remember that. Hit the whole experience. You know, the Spurs Entertainment group, which is owned by a pretty wealthy family in San Antonio, and they're highly, highly respected, and their partners, um, they started to sell off the minor league teams that they owned. So they had like basically a monopoly on all but minor league baseball in San Antonio. So they sold, they sold off the, the WNBA team, the hockey team, and now we have a soccer team. And so it's been kind of weird, like, because, you know, just people aren't as into it as they used to be. And maybe that'll come back with COVID But like you used to go to the games and I, you know, I would pay extra money to sit in like super premium seats and just go to like a few games a year. Yeah, but by and large it's not like the social scene that it used to be. Like there's like, there's like 4 tiers of like tickets and, and I was in tier 2. Yeah, because the first tier is only for the owners. Evidently there is a lounge just for the owners that mere mortals are not allowed to go into. And, um, and so like, but I would go into this tier 2 thing, which is like really fancy. And like, like people weren't treating it like the big deal it used to be. Like, I'm curious if it comes back, but that was part of the fun. You'd go and people watch and it'd be all these like people who flew in on private jets and stuff. And that's, that's shifted during COVID It's not that way anymore. It's really kind of a different experience.

Well, maybe the Michael Girdley show becomes like the Tim Ferriss show or the Dr. Oz show. So you can get the, that magical first row at some point.

I'll look back at I'll be like, it all started with Steve. See the hockey stick right there?

There you go.

So, so I did want to talk to you. Um, so I went to the Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting, which for, for, you know, it's the most infamous kind of holding company in history, probably. Um, I can't think of one that's more famous than that. So Warren Buffett's company and all this stuff. So we go up to Omaha and do the pilgrimage. And for me, like the two guys running it are 91 and 98. So Charlie Munger's 98. I'm like, okay, like. I regret never seeing Jerry Garcia live before he died. Yeah. Like this is one of those things where like, oh, it's cool. The universe has given me enough of a chance to go see Charlie Munger and Warren talk, talk. But it really opened my eyes. Like that's so like educational to do that Q&A format. And I guess you just went this morning to, I guess, the estate of Katherine Graham's company. Is that kind of how that came out? Graham Investment Company?

Yeah.

Maybe I'm missing that.

Yeah. If you're in the capital allocation, Berkshire Hathaway is, I don't know, the number one most infamous and what, 30,000 people or something at the annual meeting. Kind of the most famous book on capital allocation is this book, The Outsiders by Will Thorndike. He basically dedicates a chapter to each kind of great allocator over time. Obviously Warren Buffett's one of them. One of the more interesting ones is Katherine Graham, who Owned the Washington Post and actually inherited it when her husband passed away at a pretty early age, and she didn't have kind of a business background at all, but she became a great allocator and actually became really good friends with Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett was on the board of— it was called the Washington Post Holdings Companies or something like that for a long time. And great story. They— great returns. They bought Kaplan. Which is in for-profit higher ed and a number of assets over the years. And what was really interesting about, whenever, it was like the year before Bezos bought the Post, they sold a couple of their assets. So Katherine, then there's a movie about her, I think it won the Oscars or something. Have you seen that one? There's a movie about Katherine Graham. No.

Is it a Meryl Streep movie? Generally Meryl Streep plays everybody in those movies. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. Someone who wins Oscars, probably Meryl's in it. So she passed it on to her son, Don Graham, at a pretty young age. Don's 35. Don went to Harvard. His first job was to be a DC police officer. He was a DC cop for like 5 years, just kind of why not? And which I actually always think it's cool when rich kids join the military or law enforcement, right? They have a lot of options. And then he went into the Post and eventually ran the Post, the whole thing. He has a very infamous— where he was an early investor in Facebook. Where he got introduced to Mark Zuckerberg very early and that A round that Accel did, that was like out of, I think the first Series A, kind of after Thiel, the Series A. Don Graham was going to do it himself and write a $5 million check. Zuckerberg took the money and then like a week later, 3 days later, called to apologize and took the Accel money instead. So he would've made like 1,000x or some absurd amount. He ended up joining the board of Facebook, got shares. His daughter worked there, so he did more than fine.

Yeah.

I'm talking a lot about this, but I'll get to the punchline. So they sell the Post. So eventually he's like, the newspaper business is tough. I've taken it as far as I think I can. He sells the Post building, capital allocation, gets a bunch of cash, sells the assets of Washington Post to Bezos, and then has a holding company, Graham Holdings, and it's got Kaplan, as the core entity in it. It's got 6 TV stations in it. And then over the next couple years, he puts his son in charge of it, who is the former CEO of LivingSocial. This is his son-in-law actually. And so now you have this like really interesting random $3 billion market cap, old co, a lot of, a lot of like history behind it. Yeah. And I went to the annual meeting this morning, which was like 35, 40 people. And I like, you know, Talk to Don Graham for like 20 minutes. The next person on the board is the guy who runs Markel Corporation, which is another famous conglomerate in Richmond. Yeah, it's fun.

So what I guess— well, A, I think if I was a younger person and I was going to Berkshire Hathaway's annual meeting and listen to the Q&A, I think I'd learn a lot. I think I'd learn more, by the way, if they took less than 30 minutes to answer each question.

Yeah, exactly.

But yeah, they answer questions for like 7 hours, 6 hours. And I was like, counted up. I was like, they've made it through 8 questions. Like unbelievable, unbelievable velocity of those guys. So I went out on Twitter and I asked, are there other shareholder meetings like that that are a good place to learn? Right? Because like there's, and I got back a couple answers. So the Graham Company didn't come up. Merkel came up, which is a diversified holding company. And then Boston Omaha, which actually I was in their offices when I was in Omaha. But like, I was just like, oh, this Q&A format is so good. And I know that like the Constellation guy, Mark Leonard, he doesn't really do live Q&A at all anymore just because people kept copying the smart things he was saying and he was sick of losing.

Yeah.

So not bad. I don't know. I mean, do you think those making pilgrimage images to Richman from Oracle or those kind of things? Do you think you learn through that Q&A pretty well or are you better off just reading shareholder letters?

I think the small ones are great. I mean, you meet really interesting people in that room, right? It's just like, it was a suit, you know, very few rooms you could walk into that are like that small and you can walk in as a random person. You could own one share of stock that's worth $600 and you're like meeting CEOs, billionaires, and then all the other investors, and there's only like 15 in the room. We're all like super interesting, thoughtful people. That was even more fun than the Q&A where it's like, hey, how do you think through the stock? What other stocks do you like? How do you break apart the business? And so in most cities people live that, like, if there's a publicly traded company, they have these meetings, right? And they're all free. And I haven't been to any big ones, so I'd be curious what like just a normal boring, like, I don't know, Fidelity or like just some like Joe average stock, you know, $5 billion, you know, $50 billion market cap would be. But like, I bet I like SaaS, like I bet you could go to the Twilio annual con, you know, annual stock shareholder meeting and my bet there's no more than like 150 people and you could probably meet the founder, right? Which is like impossible to meet him otherwise.

Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, the crazy other end of the spectrum is you go to the the Berkshire Hathaway annual conference, and they had it set up for like 35,000 people showing up, like just an ungodly number of people. And there were a lot. They— it filled up an entire arena sitting there looking at two guys born in the 1920s, like talking about stocks and capital allocation. And nuke— then they talked about nuclear.

Would you do it again? Would you do it again, or was it like, hey, kind of checkbox, like, you know, did it, but it's too big at this point?

Like, uh, I would consider doing it again. I mean, going to Omaha in April is pretty fun. Um, I think that it may be likely because, um, one of our, you know, we also like, um, sandwiched it with a board meeting in Omaha. So like we all flew up there, we had a board meeting on Friday morning, big fancy steak dinner on Thursday night, and then stayed on Saturday. So we could do that again, just as like what we were doing as a board retreat. Um, cause that, that board member lives in Vermont. So it's like pretty easy as a middle ground to, for us all to go there. So I could see doing it again. Um, you know, and also like that company that I'm on the board of, like, it's, it's very strong operators that are getting exposed more and more to the thinking of how allocators work. So it's kind of, I, you know, it's kind of sometimes my strategy to learn stuff as well. I'll just, if I want to be an allocator, I'll just go hang out with a bunch of allocators and I'll just sit there and see what they say. So unfortunately we did that and all we did was hang around with people trying to buy RVs and dilly bars.

And, and some See's Candy just for fun, right? You know?

So Warren said that they sold 11 tons of See's Candy in 2 days. And it's not just 2 full days. They were only open and selling candy for like 11 hours. So they sold like a ton of candy an hour, basically.

I love that. Like, it's, I think it's kind of hilarious. Like in the scheme of things, I don't know what their market cap now, but like it's a monster company, right? Like out of billions of revenue. Like, why does he still care about See's Candies? Like, in the scheme of things, it's like, you know, what does See's Candy do? $50 million in revenue or something? Like, it's so funny how he like— and I don't know if it's branding, like the See's Candy thing like helps the shine, but he's just like out hawking it, you know, like it's going to move the stock, you know, a good sales day.

To answer your question, how much is Berkshire Hathaway Class A worth? Which they have two shares of class, two class shares, and this is the expensive one. I do not own one of these, but their market cap is $702 billion. They do $276 billion in revenue in 2021, and they trade at 8.6 times price to earnings. Yeah, that is unbelievable. The scale, the scale. When was the last time a high-quality stock traded at 12 times earnings?

I know.

Or 12%, a 12% yield on equity. Like, man, I should buy more of this. Not bad. Yeah. But yeah. And then the other thing that kind of blew people's mind, I told them we were going and generally I got two, two reactions. One, which was people being like, why do you want to do this? I was like, this is amazing. Like, you don't understand how much fun it is. And my buddies and I were there and they were like, this is awesome. Can you believe that? Like, they had such a good time. And then the second I forgot what the second reaction was. But anyway, the first reaction was people were like, why are you doing this?

And yeah, I didn't know. It is funny though, the big things you go to, like half the value is to talk about like the month before and the month after. Like I went to the Masters one year and especially like probably the niche of people I hang out with, like, you know, like you're having a warmup call, like what's going on? What's new? I'm like going to the Masters. Everyone's got a Masters story or a jacket or this. And then like the month after, You know, I got to retold the story how I didn't use my cell phone. It was cool. I got the pimento cheese sandwich and it's kind of funny.

Totally dig it. All right. So one thing, you know, you know, I'm a nerd for trying to figure out like how to recruit good people, both through systems design and then just like doing well in terms of kind of just making good decisions about them. So, so you've recently launched a fund backing entrepreneurship through acquisition. Um, and it's called Brydon, B-R-Y-D-O-N. You got the.com, which is like baller, so well done.

Just rolling Girdley style.

So hilarious story for you. When I bought girdley.com in 1996, I spent $300 on it, which was a lot to a college kid. Domain names also available at that time: google.com, coca-cola.com, evergreen.com. So that shows you how much I bet on myself, Steve. I could have bought any of those other domains and I bought my own last name. Think about it.

Think about how much of that's compounded, the value.

Also, 2009, I managed not to buy any Bitcoin. So yeah, that makes me the greatest investor of all time.

There you go. Well, you're probably still happily married. That's probably one of the reasons why. If you bought the Bitcoin, you're in Puerto Rico kind of throwing out.

So with the Lambos, yeah, uh, you know, it is one of the things, I mean, I guess you hear about it when people talk about how they ruin their lives when they get a bunch of money, um, but nobody really talks about what happens to like, you know, above average people, right? And you get a bunch of money and what happens to your, what happens to your marriage, what happens to your relationship with your kids, you know? I don't know, it seems pretty scary to me. I don't know if I really want a bunch of wealth all at once. I like it illiquid.

Yeah. My, uh, my favorite story. Um, so my wife, my wife's a professor and we live in DC and she runs the Cisneros Hispanic Leadership Institute. So it's scholarships for first-generation Hispanic students going to GW. It's got a research and policy arm, but the more interesting— great mission cause, obviously. Uh, the, the main donor won the lottery. This is guy Gil Cisneros. He won the California lottery for like a 9-figure payout. And he went back to school, got his master's in education studies, figured out how he wanted to invest and spend his philanthropy. And then he also endowed a bunch of nonprofits, foundations. Then he ran for Congress and won. I'm like, that's the best lottery story I've heard. Usually they end up West Virginia, people were murdered and strip clubs and all sorts of crazy stuff. I'm like, this guy, this guy did it right.

So how much of the— you said it was 9 figures or 8 figures?

So it was 9 figures.

So that would make it $100 million plus.

Yeah, it was like $200 million or something like that.

And then how much of it did he give to George Washington?

The University?

Small.

Small. I think it was like he endowed a bunch of different things.

So that's crazy. That would be a really cool, like, documentary to go, like, follow people at each end of the barbell. Outcomes for lottery. Like you end up with something that's like, you know, who are the people that squandered it and who are the people that really turned it into something special? I think it'd be pretty fun to go through that. So anyway, back to Bryden. So you guys have launched this fund.

Yep.

You're already taking people and you have a unique model. So as I understand it, you're bringing on these entrepreneurs in residence, which are basically search funders that you're going to pay a salary to. And then when they work with you to find a deal, you give them a whole methodology and all this kind of stuff. You help them fund it, get it all done. Then you're their partners, you know, when the company gets bought and then you guys all win the company exits or, or sells. Do I have that right?

Yeah, no, it's exactly it. Yeah, it's me. It's two partners, a buddy Alex Mears, who was a kind of classic PE guy, Carlyle, Bain, Blackstone. I think he's the only guy who's ever left Blackstone to join the Navy SEALs, but he joined the Navy SEALs. That's where we met our third partner, George Dutille, who was also a SEAL, and then Wharton, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan. And really our thesis is kind of in search. There's lots of ways to be a search funder or entrepreneurship through acquisition. And the model that we like is, hey, let's us as investors roll up our sleeves and get in the fight with you. And so we're going to back 5 folks a year. Kind of under our umbrella, we'll provide kind of top-tier resources on sourcing transactions, operating companies and playbooks, and pay a little bit more than traditional search because we're targeting mid-career folks, kind of 2 to 7 years post-MBA or mid-career without MBA. And we want folks that have like a thesis to their search. So think like a nuclear services engineer who wants to buy Navy, you know, nuclear services businesses. Maybe a niche, uh, you know, PE SaaS executive that wants to buy in that space, uh, because we think that's like an opportunity to win. And so yeah, we're pumped about it. And, uh, yeah, applications are open through June 15th, and, uh, just find it at Brydon, brydon.com.

That's cool. So I mean, as you think about your process, so, you know, obviously filling up the top of the funnel, getting lots of candidates, involves, uh, talking with me about Berkshire Hathaway and other folks too. So Definitely, definitely talk to Steve because he's got to get the word out about this and I'm here to help. But so as you're filling up the top of the funnel, people apply. So like, walk me through that process. I'm like super curious, like how have you designed that to squirt out these candidates that are coming in and out at the other end you have the 5 people who you think you're going to make a ton of money with by working together?

Yeah. So, so I always think of it like a funnel. So like, like all things, you, you want to get the word out, the inbound, get attracted candidates. I also think you want to do targeted outbound approach. Approach, like just in sales, like some of the best candidates are hidden. So we want to search directly for folks in our networks that, like, have— that we want to encourage them to apply. Uh, then, you know, with only 5, we'll probably get way more candidates than we already have, and— but we want more. Uh, we want to filter those folks down. And so in search, there's really kind of 3 jobs you do, which is kind of what makes it so interesting. Um, one is your, uh, basically a PE analyst, private equity analyst, or like even a sales rep. So you're for 2 years going out and trying to find one business to buy. And you know, if we're a company, we're providing you all the engine and tactics and tips, but in the end, you're the sales rep who's got to close the deal. So you need some, you need a person with some sales charisma or ability to do sales, and not everyone has that, right? So we're looking for that attribute and the grid of 99 nos for 1 yes. Two, you need the financial analysis of more or less like a capital allocator. You need to think, "Hey, what's the math of a good deal? If I buy it 5 times EBITDA, that's a 20% yield. If I put 50% debt on it, here's how it looks. Hey, if I pay 7 times EBITDA and I can't put too much debt on it, how does it work?" So you need someone that's got the ability to have some financial analysis around it. And then third is you got to actually run the freaking company, right? Like, that's all fun. And then now you're like, you know, you're the CEO of a $10 million business. Maybe it's a crane services business, maybe it's niche SaaS. You got to lead the team, the troops. And so you need high EQ, you need high IQ. And so it's rare to kind of bring all those together into one person. And so That's kind of what we're trying to sort out through our assessment process.

Yeah. So what is that like? So those are 3 kind of things that really very different that people have to flex into. By the way, if I was applying, I would tell you the financial underwriting part is going to be really bad. I would tell you my solutions. I'm going to hire somebody to build my models for me, but that's cool. Well, I know how to read a model. Making them, not good. Not good. We can help you. I skipped. I skipped that part of the private equity career path where you actually have to do—

have to do the work.

Yeah, where you actually have to make spreadsheets and do that kind of stuff. So anyway, so like those, those are kind of 3 very different things, but like, so what's the, what's the process to kind of, kind of identify that somebody's capable of doing that stuff? Are you— what's your primary lens to think about? Is it track record? Is it assessments? Is it behavioral interviews? How are you thinking about it?

Yeah, really those, those 3. So one is, one I think is really understanding the why. So when you apply, it's a, it's a very lightweight application. Background information, 4 essays, why search, why you want to be a CEO, what are your thesis, etc. Honestly, you can quickly understand that of like, has, has someone thought about this for a while? Like, you know, do they know what search is? Do they know what they're doing? Is the thesis like halfway decent. And so that's kind of the first selection. It's kind of more or less like semifinalists, people that are for real, like have thought about it in real. And that's where we get a little bit deeper into the assessment process. And so one of our advisors actually did a lot of the assessment, both for the Navy SEALs and some for professional sports. And so we're working through— we have 2 or 3 assessment tools we're going to use. We're still finalizing which ones. I know you're familiar with a couple of the ones we're looking at. And so put them through an assessment process there. Big, big fan like you in the topgrading interview style where, you know, really just walking through job by job, understanding why you, why you change jobs. Were you thoughtful on why? Ideally, hopefully their boss is pulling— an old boss is pulling them through. There's some thread that you can feel, you know, were they a top performer at McKinsey and their client brought them over, or like, hey, they're an average, you know, average employee, a recruiter reached out, they took a job, you know. And so I think Topgrading does a great job of that. And then we end a kind of final round interview with a case presentation, kind of really digging in more to the thesis, to the approach. And that's our closest to getting, um, you know, work materials, right? So like, can they, can they do some work materials, put it together, And then the last piece, you know, is all about references, right? And so we're really looking for trying to understand the different lenses from references of, you know, how are they not just former bosses, but ideally former employees to just who, you know, who they are, can they lead, how they think, etc. And so, you know, there's an art to doing references well, so you don't get the kind of like stock generic ones. I think there's, there's doing the direct references and there's back channel references. And so That's how, that's how we're thinking about it. But I'd be curious, like, you've kind of nailed down your process. Like, do you feel any tips for us as we're, as we're finalizing our first cohort?

Yeah, I mean, so I did have some questions like, are you, are you going to do a cognitive assessment on people?

Yeah.

A written one?

Yeah.

That's the thing I've added in the past kind of year and a half that's been instrumental. Because I've discovered like, like I'm not good with slowing down and like repeating stuff. So like I really have to work with people that can rapidly process information. And so like that correlates to higher on those kind of assessments. So I think that's, that's super powerful.

I've done those, like I was at a VistaPort co and we use a CCAT, which is one of those cognitive ones. It seems, it seems like there's Wonderlic is one. CKAT, which I think is owned by Criterion. Um, those seem to be kind of the two leaders. There might be a third that I'm missing. Yeah.

CKAT is what I use. Um, and then there's a one for people that don't speak English as a native language.

Oh, cool.

Um, yeah, it's called YU-CAT. So I use that with, with overseas folks and it just mostly pushes them to math and stuff. Uh, Mirko, who is our editor, who is silently listening to this and producer and general manager for all this, uh, did very well on the YU-CAT. Yeah, so he's over there smiling his ass off. Look at me.

He's like, I'm a stud, I'm amazing.

Mirko's like, numero uno, aquí, right here. So super good. Mirko also gets subjected to me speaking terrible Spanish to him all the time. He's like, no, no, this is how you say it, stupid. I'm like, thank you, it's perfecto. All right, anyway, so I mean, for me at least, like, I— there's a definite correlation between like the joy I find in working with people and how well they do on that. Yeah, that assessment, like, it's just more fun for me when I don't have to feel like I communicate things repeatedly. And, you know, that is, you know, that may just be me being a terrible human being. But I think that's important. I mean, the one thing, the one thing I think that people bring up about the model of mid-career professionals, and it's kind of like, one time I looked at doing an accelerator, like a version of Y Combinator, but for mid-career and older people. And I decided not to pursue it, one, because building accelerators was really hard. But number two, like, I felt like I was going to have a huge adverse selection problem, right, where I was going to end up with people who, you know, if, if by the time you're 45 or 55, like, you can't go start a startup on your own without me telling you how to do it all the time, like, like, I worried about the adverse selection idea. Um, and so that was one of the things I wanted to ask you about. As you think about personalities, there are people that will come in and tell you they want to be an entrepreneur. Like, I've seen them all the time and I've worked with them. And then 6 months later, I realized, oh, they think they want to be an entrepreneur, but really they just aren't that because they can never pull the trigger. And they really want me to do all the de-risking for them and be their boss and tell them how to be an entrepreneur, but they're just— they should go get a job. So I was just curious how you think about like the adverse selection problem of going after these mid-career professionals. Yeah.

And honestly, that's something we think through in the process of like, you know, one thing we're wrapping around a lot of resources to help them on the search journey. Right. Which is great. I think that's our value prop to searchers is, hey, we're going to help you on sourcing and transaction. We're going to do a 10-day boot camp in the Caribbean. We're going to have a cohort program for your partner if you have one.

We're going to do it. Caribbean.

Heck yeah.

Caribbean. You guys need to go. You guys need to go sit out in the Mojave Desert in the summer. Let's start sweating. You got to start this off with the right tone. Exactly. Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, you need to do peyote in a sweat lodge.

Let's go.

I know.

Sorry, keep going.

So we're providing a lot of resources that are, that are attractive to folks in this search. And so we want that because we want the top folks to give them a lot of great resource, just as the same way you join a, you know, a Google, an Apple, a top-tier PE fund. But the risk of that is like, hey, this just sounds like a fantastic job. Like, why don't I join this as a, as a job and get, you know, paid a decent salary more than traditional search with a bunch of pennies? And so as we're, as we're doing our selection, we're really going to dig down into that both on the classic kind of grit stuff. So, you know, grit and sales, I think, are the two biggest ones. When you think about the toughest part of search is the sourcing side, you know, have you had rejection before? Have you ever done a sales job? Have you done anything where you're, you know, 99 nos to get one yes on the grit side? Have you gone through like, you know, Obviously folks like, you know, in the military have gone through a lot of trials and tribulations. They've been put in situations they've overcome. And so we're, we're really looking for all those traits. And I think last, a big part of where we're looking at is it's kind of like the Midwest where like, who knows where the Midwest is? It's like Ohio to Nebraska. Like we're saying mid-career, but it might be, it might be early mid-career. Like our target audience is probably 2 to 7 years post-MBA, not kind of 10 to 20 years post-MBA. Um, and so we're in that kind of like early mid-career, mid-career sweet spot timing is where we're thinking of it.

Yeah. So I mean, as you think about these people coming in, you're paying them, at least for flyover America, I feel like pretty good money. If I remember correctly, it's like $150K?

Yeah, $150K to $200K. Based on experience.

Yeah, yeah. At least for flyover America, like, that's, that's somewhat survivable money. And I guess more so or less so for other folks. Like, how much do you think your typical applicant is going to be taking a pay cut to do this? And I'm, I'm kind of getting at, like, when I do my associate roles, like, I intentionally don't pay top dollar, and I tell the people straight out, it's because I want you to survive, and I want you to not be drowning and losing money. But also, like, I don't want you to be fat and happy in this job where you just get to hang out, right? I want there to be a clock where you're incentivized to go, like, do something. So I pay, you know, I pay enough to where they can live, but nothing where they're getting ahead. Like, are they taking a haircut at that number? Are these people that high quality? You think they're taking a reduction to be able to do this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's basically kind of where we saw kind of a part of the market was these kind of top-tier folks. They, they went to Wharton, Booth, Harvard. They then did, you know, 2 to 7 years at McKinsey type, maybe a KKR capstone in portfolio ops, Amazon, Facebook, etc. And so they're at kind of like $250,000 to $500,000 is kind of like what they're making. And, you know, when you're at, say, $400K, maybe you have a partner, maybe you have a kid and want to search, like it's just hard to get the $110,000. Even though the equity value of 25% ownership in a solo search, like the long-term value is worth a lot. And so to your point, we're not trying to like match what they're making, but we want to make it at least where they can make the compelling case to their partner who they're often selling to, often selling to like, hey, I'm taking a 50% pay cut or 25%, not a, not a 75%, and get a lot more resources and the long-term values there.

Yeah. Well, some of the tough part about that is you end up like I've brought in associates who've been in high-dollar environments and like I'm way underpaying them. And then you have people that I've brought in in low-dollar environments, like low cost, they're in San Antonio or whatever. And it's like, they're like, oh, that sounds fine. That's what I'm making now. It's like, yeah.

And I'm just saying, it's so interesting. Like I find that in DC, even where I based and I ran companies, it's like if I get someone from the nonprofit sector or government or for-profit for the same like generic marketing job, you know, like I could be for the nonprofit person like paying $20K more than they used to be making. And then the The marketer at a government consultant is making like, you know, $50K more than my offer. And, you know, for me it's like roughly the same talent. It's kind of interesting.

Uh, it's a lot of money. So, so as you design this process, like, you have at least one former Navy SEAL as a partner. So I assume there's an aggressive, uh, up or out kind of path. Like, how can people wash out? Like, in 3 weeks? Can they wash out in 3 months? Like, not that you're trying to murder them in terms of pushing them, but like, like it's at what point and what checkpoints is it that like 6 weeks in you might say, hey, this isn't working out, like we're going to let you go? Like, is that, is that part of the model? Like, are you building that into your, like, washout rate? Do you think only 3 people will make a deal? Like, how do you, how are you guys thinking about that? And you're also free to say no, Girdley, don't ask me how that works.

Yeah. So, so 2 Navy SEALs. So I'm the— my Homeland Security Doesn't quite count. So I always worry a little bit if they're going to make me do pushups at 5 AM. But, you know, so far, so far, so good. No, I mean, I think that's why we want to do the selection and be really thoughtful in the selection. Like we, we think one of the opportunities in search is when you look at the Stanford study, about one-third of folks don't find a deal or they— and part of that, like half of that one-third is like they find something else interesting. Like they go in as a CEO of a company, they find a startup idea, etc. And, but, you know, we think there's no reason, like with dedicated resources and like we're in the fight and we have to make it work, that that can't be 5 out of 5. Uh, versus when you're a traditional searcher investor and you're backing 30 folks, like you are kind of running a math equation. I'm like, hey, I bet on 30 and 20, you get a deal and I'll do 15 of the deals. Um, you know, we're kind of like, maybe it's the military, but you know, no man left behind. We're going to roll up our sleeves and make them all work. So that's at least our approach on it. Yeah.

I'm excited and scared all at once with Elon doing this stuff. I think there's a non-zero chance he ruins the whole place.

Yeah. And then, you know, honestly, like he just threads the line all the time too. Like I know people love him, he's great, but like, you know, reading the biographies on him, like he's always, you know, he's selling ahead of the product all the time, right? He's always manipulating the markets just a little bit. And, you know, he's also like making a lot of improvements to the world. So you can say the ends justify the means. But yeah, it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting today. I don't know if you read too, like they announced some of the people that are putting money behind them, which makes it— it makes it feel a little bit— it's interesting. Like Andreessen put in a big chunk and Larry Ellison's just rolling in a bill. Just like, he's just like, whatever. That's when you know you're rich. You just roll. You, it's like, I read the thing. It was like Larry Ellison Trust is next to Andreessen Horowitz. Like your own personal trust is like a larger investment than like one of the larger, you know, VC funds in the world.

So I read, I read a quote where it's like, check out Larry Ellison putting a billion dollars into the leveraged buyout of Twitter. Just like you're some schmuck writes a $10,000 angel check. you know, to their college roommate or just like, well, I'm not going to read the doc. You know, there's for me with, well, number one, I'm not doing really any outside investing in deals just because I'm deploying capital on my own stuff. But there have been times where like a buddy calls and I just like really believe in the buddy and I'm like, okay, like let me tell you how this is going to go. Here's this number that I can do and this is the maximum number that I can do to invest in a deal. But I won't look at the docs and I will never question you on anything. And whatever you tell me to do, I will do it because I trust you. That's the number. Would you like that number? Or I'm going to have to evaluate this like a real deal and I might say no. And, you know, so that's— there's a couple of deals I'm in that are just like that where my buddy's like, hey, Girdley, we're voting this way. I need you to vote this way. I'm like, that sounds great. Where do I sign? Send me the docs. I'm not going to even— I haven't even read a single document. I could have signed away my whole life. I have no idea what they have me sign.

Yeah. I think that's what Larry did. I think Larry put a bill on Tesla that like whatever, 20x or something. So he is like, ah, you were good last time. You know, whatever you want to do, you made me money. You know?

So you were spending, one of the things I'm curious about, you were spending a ton of time, or at least you're tweeting about it, going to these different entrepreneurship through acquisitions programs at Georgetown, Penn, Harvard. Chicago, a lot of really good business schools. You know, kind of what are you trying to accomplish with all that? Is it, is it for fun? Do you, or do you see it, do you see it playing into what you guys are doing with Bryden now? Or what's the, what's the endgame with all that?

Yeah. So, yeah, I guess for folks who don't know, the kind of the concept of entrepreneurship through acquisition came out of Stanford and Harvard, and a couple of professors teach courses there. And what's been cool is over time, and it's ramped up the last 5 years, there's probably 10 or 15 schools in the US that teach it. Kellogg, Booth, Darden, Rice, et cetera. And so as we got involved in the community, I think a big part about being an active investor in the community is just evangelizing the model. This is an option. The first time I heard about it as an entrepreneur, I'm like, "You can buy a business in the same way you could buy a house?" I never thought the idea that someone would pay you a salary and then help you buy a business, put you in charge of the CEO and give you a large part of the the equity, it was like, seems like the best deal ever. Like, is this real? Or even on the reverse side, some people do entrepreneurship through acquisition in a self-funded route where they use SBA, which like you can put 20% down and buy a business. And so that's partly what we're trying to do is like, you know, I think as investors in the ecosystem is like educate, you know, folks about this model. And so we teach a couple courses. So we teach one on Intro to Financial Modeling for Search where we give kind of like a 1-hour overview of how to build out a mini buyout, LBO. So we can teach you, Girdley, since you missed the class.

And I know how to do it. Here's how you do it. You hire an associate and you say, I need you to spend the next week doing this. And then the model comes back and you go, well, here's what's wrong with it. And then that's, that's how it works. That's how it goes.

There you go. And then we do another one on buying, buying and operating SaaS businesses and search. And then we actually do another one that's Intro to ETA for Veterans. And so we're It's kind of an intro to ETA talk, but we, we kind of talk about the unique veteran experience and kind of the opportunities for veterans in search. And, um, yeah, it's fun. Like, I, uh, I always love being on campuses. My, my wife's a professor. Uh, I'm a PhD dropout actually. I wanted to be a professor, so like this like lets me live my, uh, my early 20s dream of being a professor and hanging out on college campuses.

So if you think about the spectrum, like, oh, I have this theory of personality that there's— for business leaders, you're either an operator or you're an allocator, like, like, and there's a spectrum in between there. And I kind of like go between the two of them. You know, you've spent a bunch of time operating. Where do you think you end up on that spectrum?

Uh, in the middle. I think that's the— that's— it's been interesting. And part of it is like, I've always dug in deep on stuff. And so it was always kind of interesting. Like, I didn't even want to be an entrepreneur, right? Like, I thought I had a government scholarship at Penn, and I came to work in government and just started doing stuff. And then I had an idea for something that should exist, which is basically like a LinkedIn for government. And I built it just out of my own wanting to do it. Didn't even know it was being an entrepreneur. And then it grew enough and people were like, "Are you raising money? Are you doing this or that?" I'm like, "Oh, I guess this is a business. I guess that's value." And then I kind of went down and The way I learned is I go talk to the 10 of the smartest people I know. I try to network. So I networked with a bunch of folks and got some basic understanding of that world. We eventually sold it to a SaaS company, GovDelivery, and my mentor there, Scott Burns, when we sold it, I said, "Hey, obviously I want money and stock and all these things, but I really want to get my MBA on the job." And he would bring me in every board meeting. I got a SaaS PhD there. And so SaaS PhD there, VISTA, love learning. But then on the side note, I would read Buffett letters for fun. I had my Roth IRA at 14, put my little lawn care money in it. And so it's just evolved over time. And then I really got much more active investing the last 5 or 7 years. And it's fun now to actually do investing full-time and then to do it with Alex, a partner who's like, his whole job has been in large cap PE is a good kind of combo. So I know saying the middle is like a non-answer, but I really like, that's where I kind of come out.

That's where I end. That's where I am. And I think I'm ending up more and more moving towards the allocator side, but I just can't go all the way there. Like I see these, it's why you look on Twitter and like all the pure allocators who are like, let's talk about GFI in Canada or whatever, or find the next, like, you know, Nugget where I can invest $1,000 into it. They don't follow me anymore. They're not interested in my screeds on how to hire and stuff like that.

No. Yeah. No, but I think that's where you win if you could do both. I think you can think like an allocator, but then you have to run these businesses and stuff like culture, people, processes, KPIs, template, all that stuff matters. And the 100% allocators to me don't understand that seat of in the end, when you've been the CEO, right? Like people are the only thing that matter and you feel it when like your best employee quits or you like, you win a great hire who's a VP who makes your whole life, like you don't even have to think about that part of the business anymore because you got a great VP. Like you don't have those knowledge when you're just allocating.

Yeah. Well, that was when, and this is kind of a third rail name to throw out there, but like I read the book on Charles Koch Yeah. Like of Coke Industries and arguably like very political and has some interesting views on things. But like I read the book and it was the yellow book, Coke Land. I don't know if you've read it. It's pretty good. But the thing that was shocking about it as I read their business history was how much people loved working for Charles Coke. Like they just like, even the people who like washed out of working at Coke Industries, like loved the man. And like he combined that with like an amazing allocator's mindset. Like the way, you know, you just kind of read through the routine of the way they would do things with their business units. Like I was like, oh, here's somebody who can do both of these mindsets. Like, like you're talking about going back and forth like really quickly, but at the same time, like do the personality part, which is like for many of these folks, like even harder. Like you have to have that triangle of operator, allocator, and like butt kisser, like people person.

Yeah, what did he do? I wonder why the employees love him so much. Like, was it like tactical programs in this or just like a character of giving, etc.?

Um, you know, it didn't— I don't know if I have a great answer for that, but he did the things that you want a great leader to do. Like, you know, you want them to be fair, you want them to be consistent, you want them to be clear, you want them to care about the people first of the company. Balance that with the mission and the hard business decisions that you have to make, and then do all of that very kindly. Like, I think he was able to do that with these folks, so much so that he felt comfortable, like, hey, you need to sign up for our PAC and stuff. Like, I don't feel comfortable doing that, but like, he would do that with these people. But even leaving, they would just talk about like, Charles was so fair to me. Like, he treated me like a person. Like, I felt like I got the fair shake I deserved. Like, They communicated to me, they invested in my development. Like all of those things, like he checked all of those boxes for, for the people that were quoted in there. And it was people like pooping on Koch Industries, like for the bad stuff that they've done as a business, you know, stealing from the guys who go stealing from well holders and stuff like that. Like that was like organized crime, basically what they did. So like, but people still loved working for them. It was just amazing.

That was interesting. The last company we sold to Motorola Solutions, which is like Motorola, like the old conglomerate split into two, like, I don't know, 15 years ago. Motorola Solutions is like the walkie-talkie that all cops wear. But it was like that. It was interesting. Like the CEO, like, I don't know what it is, $30 billion market cap, but it had like that old school ethos of like they have a big foundation, they're good in the community, like a lot of give back, like good allocator, like treated employees fair. Like a lot of people were like second, third generation Motorolans, like a lot of care for the customer. It's just like an interesting, um, different than being in like a PE-backed environment. It was like the, the best of a, of in some ways an old, old school large company, had the best of kind of like the culture, values alignment, and just cool stuff like I like it. Like, you know, it's got a little bit of that like employee ownership where, you know, there's that employee stock program. So a lot of people own part of the stock and they cared and that was cool.

Baby boomer, baby boomer ownership.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I got it. I'm working on a thread about how to work with baby boomers. And so there's some fun stuff in there. But one of them is one of the things to do with them is like understand like baby boomers, like love like meetings because they want to have collegial decision-making. And they also want to have like outward signs of affirmation. So they love to have like trophies. Like if you go see baby boomers and you are like, you see people like, like behind me, like you see people that have like a bunch of diplomas and stuff in the background of their Zoom or they're on their iPad and the Zoom is like pointed up their nose, you know, they're being boomer. But anyway, like that's the other thing, like Baby boomers love to have like those tokens of trophies. Like they grew up thinking trophy. That's why they, that's why they gave, it's kind of messed up, right? Everybody's like, well, why do millennials like, why does it seem like they're addicted to trophies? It's because their parents were baby boomers and baby boomers love freaking trophies. Like they think they're the best. And so they kept giving their kids trophies because they thought, well, everybody loves trophies. And now the millennials are like, I don't want your fake ass trophy. Like if you talk to millennials, they'll say like, they're like, Why does everybody give me these fake-ass trophies? Because your parents really want trophies. You need to be giving your parents trophies because they think it's a great deal.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's like the 10-year anniversary, like, of your employee. You get a little trophy or a little, you know, little widget, you know?

Yeah, you can see it like— well, I mean, so I have a friend who, who has like a big staff, right? And he got a 10-year award. From like this organization he's connected to. And, uh, his staff knew him so well. He's a boomer. His staff knew him so well that they sent this little tenure award and it was like 2 inches by 2 inches. It was like a little tiny award. So his staff knew him so well that they took the award when it came in from this national organization that he's part of, um, for his service. And, uh, they went and printed a bigger custom award for him.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you're like, well, like, if— I mean, I think you're Gen X like me. Like, if you did that to me, or we would be like, whoa, whoa, I don't need that. Like, I'm fine.

Yeah.

So, so then we have like a reception, and this person's great. He took no less than 30 photos during the reception with him, the award, and everybody. And he was just like, this is like— every picture was like, here's me with the word. It was just like the coolest, you know. I'm sitting there watching like Like, it's not like it's bad. It's just like this, it's like an alien dropped in from another time and is like just doing weird stuff. And I'm like, what's going on?

You know, like, yeah, what is going on? Yeah. It is funny how just like those little things, if you could just be a little bit more creative or add a little extra sauce, it goes 10x, whether it's like the, at the, actually at the Booth ETA conference, like the, they had a pitch contest and they printed out the big check, you know? I'm like, I love the big check, right? The rest of the day, holding the big check, people are taking photos. Like, they could have just been like, uh, we'll email you afterwards and send the wire. Like, that's the default, but the big check is the way to go.

Yeah. Well, and it's, uh, it's that, like, um, like one of the companies I'm on the board of, we do swag for like all the investors every year. And like, they're like, okay, well, we're doing swag. Uh, let's go talk to Girdley to get his opinion on the swag. Cause it's like the, Like for everything else, like I'm a good board member. I'm like, what do you guys want to do? What do you want to do? And like, they're like, no, no, Michael, Michael, chairman of the board, really, really wants to make sure we don't screw up swag. Because universally, when the staff does the swag, like you end up with like this bag full of crap, right? It's like, here's your squishy ball and stuff. Like, I'm like, you are sending squishy balls to deca-millionaires. Don't do that. Give them one thing that they're going to love. And they're like, what do you mean? I was like, Okay, what's the nicest jacket company, you know? And they're like, uh, North Face. I was like, okay, we need to find one nicer than that. We're going into, you know, Heely Hansen or one of the ones that's on the street of Vail. Like, we need to go figure those out, buy them a jacket and embroider our name on it. And like, so we did it. And like, like I had the greatest compliment because one of the, one of the other investors in the company, he walked up to me and he had on a jacket. For his company, and he had gone and gotten the exact same jacket, embroidered it with his company, and said, we copied you. And I was like, yes, this is amazing.

I knew we had a mutual bond. I'm, I'm a, I, uh, I have high swag standards. I had an employee, we used to buy t-shirts for one company we ran, and I always loved the American Apparel 50/50, like the good blend of the t-shirt. And the most I ever got mad, because I'm kind of a low-key guy, I was like, they got the wrong fabric, and they were so proud, like, oh, it's $2 cheaper a t-shirt. And I was like, you messed up so bad, you don't know it. You know, now we have— I'm like, now you have the t-shirt no one really wants to wear. They got the free t-shirt, and like, you know, so what that it was $6 a t-shirt versus $8? The $8 one people actually wear.

The best swag I ever did is— and I'm always looking out for stuff like this, but there's a furniture company called Autonomous.ai and they do, they were one of the first to do the sit-stand desks. But for some reason they decided to get into the luggage business and they put out like this amazing luggage. Guess who wants to buy luggage from a sit-stand desk provider?

No one.

Nobody. So I looked up and I'm like checking out the desk. I'm like, oh, look at that. They're like Outlet and I click on there and I realize they're selling like $400 luggage for like $50. I'm like, this is amazing. So I put in my credit card right then and I bought like all of the ones they had left. I got like 40 of these things. And, um, so like I was like, I texted my business partner. I was like, I got all of our investor gifts and employee gifts all at once. It's going to be amazing. And, um, so I got all these, they all show up to my house, the UPS guy, you know, when you order some stuff and the UPS guy shows up to your house and he's just like staring at you and at the house and staring at you. Like, you're like, everybody pretend we're not home. The UPS guy is— UPS guy is going to hurt us. So, you know, so anyway, that happened. So they all showed up to my house. I got a garage full of these things. My wife is like, it's your car going in the street, buddy. Like, that's the way that's going to work. So, so anyway, I decided to make them special. I wanted to get like little things plated on them. Like, so I talked to my buddy who owns a thing. So we got like a little like company logo and he like printed them out and they embroidered with metal. Um, but I also, I was too cheap to, I had to take them over to a shop and I was too cheap to like get a real vehicle to do it. So I tried to strap them to the top of my car and I lost like 10 of them on the freeway. So I was like running down the freeway afterwards to pick all these things up and I took them over there and he's like, what happened to this one? I was like, I don't know, shipping problems, I guess. Like a big dent in the side. Oh, but like we go on this business trip and like somebody's still using it. They're like, I love that luggage. So special. Cause that's like, Like, for me, like, the key for swag is you're supposed to be demonstrating your care for somebody, not that you're going through the motions. And if you do something special for them, even if it's not much money— it cost us $60, $70 to do those luggages— like, that's the message you're trying to send, not like, hey, here's your stupid squishy ball. Like, who cares? Who cares? Like, you're just— give them nothing if you're going to give them a cheap squishy ball. All right, that's fine.

I'm not going to leak our top secret Brighton swag, but just, just know that we are, are on top of our swag game and, uh, are not messing around. So we got some, we got some good gems. You'll see me in public with some swag soon on, uh, on the apparel side.

Let me know when you open up your company store and I'll buy one. I'm interested in repping that. Well, um, we are at an hour. What, anything else on your mind we need to cover? Definitely need to tell people about your newsletter, uh, the ETA Musings. Uh, and also you're on Twitter, right?

Yeah. Yes. So, um, on Twitter, uh, I'm no Michael Girdley, but I'm @SteveRessler. And, uh, if you want to hear my random musings on, on search, holdcos, and, uh, DC and others. And then I actually write a monthly newsletter on all things search and ETA. It's actually got stuff on investments, on, uh, opportunities, jobs, internships, resources, et cetera. Uh, you can sign up for that for free at bit.ly/etamusings, etamusings. And, um, yeah, please reach out. I'm also on LinkedIn, so happy to connect with anyone. Would love to hear from any potential EIRs or folks interested in search or, uh, want to talk Graham Holding holdcos.

Yeah, dude, the EIR stuff, like, man, I wish I was like 10 years younger and and more capable. I'm totally fine with that.

Or poor. You lost your hustle, Girdley.

Uh, man, I mean, you're talking about the job. It seems like a ton of fun, and then I'm like, oh, that seems like a lot of work. Like, the number, the number of times people pitch me on ideas and I'm just like, oh man, that seems like a— that seems okay, just seems like a lot of work though.

I mean, you would not pass our grit test, Girdley.

I mean, that's, that's the one thing that's fascinating to me about entrepreneurship through acquisition. Like, or like you talk about these things where like, whether it's fundraising or it's like buying a company or something like that, and you're in the description that like a third of people or 40% of people like don't actually find something like, like that's just so foreign to me. Like, and I don't mean this, this is not like a humble brag or anything like that, but like when I get something like that, like the first time I raised like a venture capital fund, I was just like, The guy, you know, came up like, well, what if we don't raise the fund? I was like, uh-uh, uh-uh. No, that's not the way this works. This is not a team that loses. We are raising this fund. And you know what we did? We raised the fund. Like, that's just the— so like, that's why I'm kind of like, well, what else was going on with those people when they signed up to do ETA? Like, did they change their mind along the way or whatever? But for me, when I decide to do something, like, it's just, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. So anyway.

Yeah, no, I know how you feel. Like, you know. I'm still on startups and entrepreneurship. Like I did one move once. So I— side note, we're like, we're moving a company and doing a couple employees and then like had all these questions like, I don't think you're doing this right. I'm like, I don't lose. I was like, I was like, we will get a new office. It'll be fine. It'll be— it's like swag. It will be nice. It will be well done. And the same way it's like, like when you're on the air, like what happens if someone doesn't win or wash out? I'm like, we'll pick the best people. We'll join the fight. Like my teammates, SEAL guys, like we won't win. We won't lose. Right? Like We'll make it work even if, if it takes twice as much work or 10 times or takes longer, you know.

Super cool. Such an exciting adventure. I mean, everything from, you know, putting together a new startup, you know, management company to recruiting these people to building infrastructure, like all fun challenges. Like, I kind of— I don't kind of— I definitely envy that kind of fun. That looks like fun.

Awesome. Well, thanks for having me on the show, Mirko. As always, you're the brains behind this operation. Mirko's just Dr.

Oz hanging out, you know, Mirko, we might have to let you start talking on the microphone soon, like on the episode. He shows up and he's not a— oh wait, he's recording himself. No, he's not recording himself. All right guys, thanks a bunch. Have a great Thursday and appreciate you coming to chat with me, Steve. Tons of fun.

Thanks.