Alana discusses "fair" and "unfair"

Hello, Lana. How are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I'm very well, thank you. So I was thinking about fairness. What is— what does it mean when something is fair or unfair?

Um, to me, like, you get equal treatment.

You get a whole treatment?

Like equal treatment.

Equal treatment. So, um, would you say that most things in life are fair or some things in life are unfair?

Um, most things in life are fair and some, just some things aren't fair.

So what's an example of something that you're aware of that is unfair?

Um, Actually, I don't really know.

Okay, um, is it fair that your parents are taller than you are?

Yes, because they have a longer time growing.

Okay, um, would you say that you get some privileges that Logan doesn't have?

Yes.

What kind of privileges do you have that he doesn't have?

Actually, I don't really think of, I can't really think of anything.

Okay. Um, would you say that your jujitsu matches are always fair?

Yeah.

Okay. Would you say that school is always fair?

Yeah.

So if everything is fair, how do you even know that unfair exists? Or maybe unfair does not exist.

It exists in some parts of the world, um, like maybe like they used to treat you unfair by your skin color or something.

So that would be an example of unfairness. Okay, and so, um, how about if they treat, um, boys and girls differently? Is that fair or unfair?

Unfair.

Um, and do you think that that used to happen?

It could have, it could have happened.

Um, how about if they treat you differently based on how tall you are, is that fair or unfair?

It's unfair.

That's unfair?

Yeah.

So I guess then the tricky part is, are your mom and dad the same height or is one taller than the other?

One's taller than the other.

So because they're different heights, I guess you're saying they should be treated exactly the same.

Yeah.

Do you know the game of basketball?

Yes.

Most basketball players are really tall. Did you know that?

Yeah.

Is it fair that, and especially professional basketball, is it fair that only tall people get to play professional basketball?

No.

So you think that everybody of every height should be allowed to play professional basketball?

Yeah, if they know how and stuff.

Okay, um, so your mom's a nurse, right?

Yes.

Do you think it's fair that— and usually people have to be trained to be a nurse and they need a certification and so forth. Do you think it's fair that only trained certified nurses get to be nurses or should anybody be able to be a nurse?

Um, I think trained certified nurses should be able to be a nurse because if you don't know how to do stuff and stuff, maybe you'll just mess up the person's body or something.

Okay, so in that case, it's okay that we don't let— we only let some people be nurses and other people not be nurses, right?

I mean, like, if they go into, like, medical school and, like, become, like, have their, like, certificate to become a nurse, yeah. Because, um, because if you don't know how and you just jump right into it, um, you don't know how to do anything. So you, so you, like, so maybe you could mess something up or something.

Okay. So you know the Olympics, right? You've heard of the Olympics? Yes. Olympics, they're like races. There's swimming races and there's running races and there are gymnastics competitions. You know about all those kinds of things, right?

Yes.

So, you know, usually they give one gold medal in each race, one silver medal, one bronze medal. Is that fair or unfair?

Um, I think that's fair because even if they just get in second or third, like, they still like won something because like they tried their best.

So, but most people, suppose there are 50 people in a race or 100 people in a race and only 3 get a medal, um, is it fair if you don't get a medal at all?

I think so because I mean like, it's because like you, like you just maybe next time you just need to try harder, like if you were just going kind of easy.

So you think that people who don't get medals didn't try hard enough?

No, like they definitely tried their best. Like, but me, like, um, like if I got like 50th or something, I know that I tried my best. And I think that it's fair that, um, that, um, they get the medal because they were like going like in like the the front row and stuff, but I think that it's also kind of fair to the others because they can still celebrate with their families and stuff, and maybe they can make one by themselves.

So it sounds like, going back to jiu-jitsu, that when you win it's fair and when you lose it's fair, right? Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and either way it's fair?

Yeah, and also if you lose you can learn and find out your mistake and learn and correct that mistake and you'll do better in the next race.

What if somebody loses and thinks it's not fair and they're angry because they think it's unfair? Do you think they're wrong or they're right or it depends on a situation?

I think it depends on a situation. Like maybe, like your arm wasn't straight in an armbar but the ref tapped it, tapped it anyway. That would kind of be not fair. Or like if your elbow was out of the out of their hands, that would kind of be not fair because they were out of the armbar. They just still had their arm, but their elbow was out of the armbar, and that means that they're out of the armbar.

Is that a real-world example, or that's just a hypothetical example?

It's— that's actually how it is.

I mean, but you've seen that really happen sometimes when a ref kind of made a mistake?

Sometimes. Not all, but not, um, not really. It doesn't really happen, but sometimes the ref can get a little mistaken.

And then if the ref did make a mistake, then it's the person has a reason to be angry that something's unfair?

A reason, but they shouldn't just go like to the ref and like talk about it, but if you want to, that's fine.

Um, so it sounds like, uh, what's our general theory of fairness? I'm kind of getting lost. How do we know in general with some— when something's fair and when something's not fair?

Like something's fair, like you get equal treatment and you know, like, you did something right and you tried your best and stuff.

So if the referee gives the right— if the referee is doing a good job, then the referee is providing equal treatment and therefore the outcome of the match is fair, right?

Yes.

And then with the Olympics, if you try as hard as you can, suppose you're in a running race and you trip and that's why you didn't do very well. Is that fair if you did not do it very well because you trip?

Um, like, and you actually, like, fell on the ground, you didn't just catch yourself?

Yep.

Um, I think that would be kind of fair because, like, you tripped it, like, not the ref or something, not the other people or the ref. And maybe you shouldn't, like, if your shoelaces were untied, maybe you should tie those.

Got it. What if somebody tripped you deliberately, would that be fair or unfair?

Unfair. I think you should go maybe tell like somebody, like maybe the ref, if there is a ref or something. Okay.

So it sounds like, um, as, so if the rules are applied fairly and you try as hard as, well, what does trying have to do with it? Would you say it's fair no matter how the out, whatever the outcome of the race is, it's fair whether you try or don't try?

Yes.

Okay, so it's basically about rules being applied equally. Okay, that makes sense to me. Um, any other thoughts on how we know if something's fair or unfair?

Yep.

Is it important that things be fair or does it not, not really matter?

Um, I think it's important to be fair because then we'll get equal treatment and yeah.

But why should we care about equal treatment? Why don't we let just unfair things happen all over the place? Why is equal treatment important?

I think it's important because like you don't— like you want everybody to be treated the way you want to get treated so that they'll be nice to you and maybe you'll be nice to them.

Okay, that's, that's a pretty interesting rationale. That makes sense. Cool, so do you know what you're gonna do today?

No, I do not.

Okay, well, I hope you have a wonderful day and, well, first, are you going to school or you're not going to school anymore?

My school is canceled.

Are you okay with that or you unhappy with that?

Oh, I'm kind of unhappy.

Okay, you miss the kids?

Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. Is that fair or unfair that school was canceled?

I think it's fair because you need to be safe because of the new virus that's going around.

Got it. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, well, I hope you have something fun to do today and hope to talk next weekend. Okay, bye-bye, Alana.