Gift giving and Boundaries

Okay. Well, I was actually, since we talked about gifts with O. Henry last time, I thought I ran across an article about with 5 different philosophies of gift giving. So I thought I'd look at 5 different philosophies of gift giving. And one is just give them what they ask for. So you could give people whatever they ask for. Another is to give them the most luxurious gift that they don't need. And I guess the idea is, you know, somehow giving people luxuries is really a great gift idea. Another is to give them quality time instead of stuff. That is, a lot of people have enough stuff, so you want to give them quality time. So that's 3. When we get to 5, then we can discuss them. Another is to give them a love letter, to talk about why you love somebody. And that's nice, to tell them why you love them. And the next is a homemade gift, because a homemade gift is very personal. So of those 5 gift-giving philosophies, which do you like, either as a giver or as a receiver? You're muted, I think, still.

Yeah, I think honestly just 1 and 5 are my favorites. I love homemade gifts and I love making things, so that, that always appeals to me. And for the first one, just give them what they ask for. I mean, if someone asks for something specifically, then they must you know, want it, right? I think it's ideal to give them that.

Fair enough. So let's look at the ones you rejected. So, do you know people who give luxurious gifts just because luxurious gifts are somehow— I don't know, what do you think of that one?

Well, what do you mean luxurious? Like a new bathroom or something? A new—

something expensive and fancy, you know. Oh, okay.

Well, I mean Sorry, go ahead.

I was going to say, yeah, I've certainly known people who both like to give expensive and fancy gifts and like to receive expensive and fancy gifts. But why are you against that?

I'm not against it, but I just like, if it's just for a birthday or something, I don't think I need a luxurious gift that's super expensive. Like they don't have to spend a ton of money for me, or just like a, I don't know, a new chair, or not a chair but something luxurious. Yeah, um, yeah, and I actually, I do like number 3. I was just thinking about number 1 and 5. Like, by quality time, do you mean like maybe a place at like a park, or I don't know, a fair?

Yeah, like, suppose your parents, instead of giving you a present, they took you to a park or took you somewhere special or just spent a whole day doing things with you. Yeah, they give you a gift of time instead of a gift of stuff.

Yeah, I think I like that one too, because I do think that spending time with someone that you like, your family or your parents or your friends or something like that. I think that that amounts to a gift. I mean, if maybe you went to the park with them and you stayed there for a few hours, I think that would be worth it.

Okay. And then the love letter method. And I think this is not necessarily like romantic love. I think it's more telling somebody why you love them. Could you imagine somebody giving you a gift that was a letter about why they loved you, or you giving somebody else a gift where you wrote them a letter for why you love them?

I think I could imagine that happening, um, with my parents or somebody in my family. I think, yeah, I think that could happen.

Do you think that would be a good present?

Yes, I do.

Okay, so it sounds like you kind of like 4 out of 5, everything except the luxurious.

Well, I just feel like it's not necessary. Like, I don't think nobody needs a really big luxurious gift.

What about the— well, and actually, the funny thing about the O. Henry story, The Gift of the Magi, is that they gave luxurious gifts, and that was the whole problem in a certain sense, because they spent too much. How about just give them what they ask for? What if somebody wants a luxurious gift? Then do you have to spend a lot of money and give something fancy to someone?

Well, I mean, if they want a luxurious gift and you can get them that with, I don't know, something to spare, I mean, it's good to think about it, but you should— I think you should just get what you can.

So what I'm hearing on the sides is that you have a sense of, I would say, kind of financial responsibility. That is, when you say, if you can give them luxurious gift, it sounds like you're aware that people should not spend more money than they can afford. Is that accurate? You're muted again.

Should not or could not?

Should not give— spend more money than they can afford.

Well, I mean, I, I don't think you should spend more money than you can afford. I think you— I mean, but I guess if it's for someone you really like, or maybe like somebody who's really special to you, I mean, it depends on how special they really are. And I guess for those two people in the story, they are that special.

So are you saying that if there was somebody who was really special and they wanted a really fancy gift, then even if you couldn't quite afford it, you'd spend more money than you could afford to give them that gift?

Me personally, or just people in general?

You can start with you personally.

Um, I mean, if it was like special enough, but if it was just, I don't know, some person that I met last week and it was their birthday or something, maybe I wouldn't I don't know.

Suppose, like, suppose you get to be 18 and you have a friend who's been your best friend for like 12 years. Would you, would you like take out a loan because you couldn't afford something to give them a gift? Or would you give them a different kind of gift? Or would you try to convince them that they shouldn't want a gift that you can't afford?

Um, well, I wouldn't— I mean, I think that I would try to get something like that thing, more affordable, but I think that, um, he or she will still like it. Um, I mean, that's probably what I'd do.

Yeah, no, no, it's, it's interesting. Um, that I guess part of me— let me tell you what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that if somebody wants me to buy something that is more than I can afford, that doesn't seem like they're being quite, um, a good friend. This drug, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, who would tell you to go buy some car for them?

Exactly, exactly. So I guess Yeah, I'm trying to think. I think if I had friends who constantly expected me to get them super expensive gifts and I didn't think it was a good use of the money, I think I probably wouldn't stay friends with them.

Yeah.

Does that seem crazy?

Oh, I mean, not really, because I think I'd do that too.

Yeah. So that leaves— give them what they ask for as long as it's not Crazy. How about, how about give them what they ask for? Suppose you give somebody something they ask for, but you don't think it's good for them.

Well, if I don't think it's good for them and they're really near and dear to me, then I obviously won't buy it because I don't want to hurt them, you know, like physically, emotionally, or something like that. I don't want to be responsible for that.

Even if they, they really want it, they say, oh, I really, really want this thing, you think? Just not good for you, you then you would just tell them no and not give it to them?

Yeah, probably if I think that it's really, really not good for them.

Okay. So, um, give them what they ask for as long as it's not, as long as it's good for them and not too expensive. So we kind of have qualifications around number 1, right?

Sort of. I think the, um, 'As long as it's good for them' is a really good rule. But I, um, and the 'not so expensive'— well, 'not so expensive' and I mean, 'not so'— I don't, I don't know. If, um, my friend was cocky about it and said, 'Oh, you should get that for me, come on,' or something like that, well then I'd— I mean, if they were just, I don't know, being Or I would say rude, but yeah, kind of rude. And I, I don't know, I'd start thinking about, I don't know, not doing it.

So it's more about their attitude, or it's partially about their attitude. Is that right?

Sort of. Yeah.

Okay. You know, it's a different sort of thing, but sometimes people spend a lot of money on engagement rings and wedding rings and weddings and things. Do you think that's the sort of thing where it's okay to spend a lot of money?

Well, I, I, I would think so if you're getting, I don't know, yeah, a ring for, I don't know, your loved one. I guess most people would spend a lot of money on that, and I think it makes sense.

So that's kind of a special exception because it's in a special, a special event.

Ego. Yes.

Okay. Um, so in which case, it sounds also like maybe there's not the sort of attitude thing. Do you know what it means to feel entitled?

Yes, I do.

Yeah. So when you say, um, their ego, you're talking about their ego, like if they thought they deserved a special present, um, just like for random birthday. Then you're thinking, how about, could they be entitled with quality time? Suppose somebody said, you need to spend a whole week with me because I'm your best friend. And maybe you've got other things going on that week. Is that a problem even if it's time?

Is that, wait, can you repeat that?

Would it be a problem for them to be, if they felt entitled, even if it was not about money? But it's just about your time?

Well, it'd be a problem for me because if my friend thinks they're entitled to everything, well, I don't know if— I don't know what I've been— I mean, I'd probably just either— well, I mean, if they think they're so entitled to make or ask me to— or in a— not ego-ish, but attitude— if they ask me to stay with them for a week with an attitude, like, you have to stay with me for a week or something like that. Like, I mean, and if I did have things going on that week, I'd definitely say, well, I have things— I'd tell them that I have things going on that weekend, I can't.

Do you, do you know what it means to have boundaries or healthy boundaries?

In what way?

Interpersonal, in relationships between people.

I think I know what you mean.

Well, the reason I mention it is I think that this is a kind of form of having healthy boundaries. Healthy boundaries means that you don't let people kind of infringe on who you are. That is, who you are is who you are, and somebody can't just demand kind of a big chunk of your time or money, because that's just— you're sort of pushing them back when they try to demand too much. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does.

And I would say when somebody feels entitled to something, you know, I think just to think through entitled a little bit. If we sign a contract and you say that you're going to pay $20 on December 30th because of the contract, that feels different than somebody just saying, I deserve to have lots of your time. You know what I mean? That is, entitled seems to be when people don't have a legitimate reason to demand something from you. Does that make sense?

Yes.

And so a good boundary would be you push back if somebody claims, makes claims on you of some kind. It could be emotional claims even. And you say no. You don't need to say it maybe, but you push back. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does.

Um, because yeah, I think gifts are tricky because we— I think we want gifts to be warm, fun, and good for all. It's fair enough.

Yes.

But do you see how sometimes gift giving and the whole process of gift giving can kind of get into strange territory if people are— have bad attitudes or egotistical or entitled or all that?

Yes, I see.

Have you known people like that?

Um, not that I can think of at the top of my head. I think I have, but I only— it wasn't very bad, and it was only one person that I can remember, and I was kind of young or younger a few years ago.

Would you say that you kept your strong boundaries up in that situation? Or you let them push you around a little bit?

Um, I think I didn't— I mean, I honestly wasn't thinking about it this way, so I'm— I mean, it wasn't on— or do you mean just a specific gift giving?

Um, just more generally, generally this notion of boundaries and people kind of demanding too much were demanding inappropriately?

I think I did. Yes, I did.

Yeah, no, I think, I think it's sort of an interesting thing. I mean, as you meet more people in the world, sooner or later you probably run into somebody who tries to, you know, feels more entitled than they should. So it's, it's good just to be aware of this and have this sort of frame, you know, both with gift giving. How would you, could you describe what makes This is a big thing. I don't expect you to figure out, but what makes for a healthy relationship?

Um, just as in me with my best friend or me older with another kid?

Take your pick, whatever is easiest. Whatever is easy.

Um, well, I'm just gonna say for general, maybe. Um, I'd like to think the same things as another person. Um, I'd love to have them be respectful and not entitled and not think that they're entitled. Like, I definitely have a few friends that fit those categories and they're awesome. I'd like to have them kind of— I mean, not do the same things as me, but have lots in common with me. So I like I can play with them and things like that. Or I'm just talking about friends there.

But I, I think respectful, not entitled, and have a lot of things in common with you is a great first draft. So how about for now we leave that as a great first draft, and then we can think about it more in the future?

Okay, thank you.

You're welcome. Have a wonderful week. Bye-bye.

You too.

Bye.