An adult guides a child named Ethan through questions about whether cats or dogs are smarter, then expands to compare animal and human intelligence. Ethan identifies tool-making, building, and complex language as what makes humans different. The conversation shows how to help kids think critically by asking open questions and gently pushing back on their ideas.
Hey Ethan, how are you? Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Good, how are you?
Good.
Good. So I was wondering, do you think that dogs are smarter than cats or are cats smarter than dogs?
Cats are definitely smarter than dogs.
Why? Why?
I just think that. I don't really know why.
Do you think that there are things that cats can do that dogs cannot do?
Yeah, like climb. Dogs can't climb.
Okay.
Cats can.
Does climbing make cats smarter than dogs?
No, not really. I mean, there is a lot cats can do that dogs can't. Cats are just smaller than dogs.
Okay. So do you know if cats— I think dogs sometimes do what you tell them to. Have you seen people tell dogs to do something and the dogs do what the people told them to do?
Uh, yeah.
Do cats do that?
You can train your cat to do that too.
You can?
Yeah.
So, you know, I know that some people train their dogs to roll over. Are you saying you could train your cat to roll over? Yeah. People can train their dogs to to stand up. Could you train your cat to stand up?
Uh, yeah.
Okay. Um, people can train dogs to track, um, people or animals. Do you know about dog tracking?
Yeah.
Can you train— can you train your cat to do that?
No, I— you can't.
Does that make dogs smarter than cats or not?
No, they're about similar smartness.
Well, earlier you were saying cats are definitely smarter.
Yeah, but they're about similar.
So now they're about similar, okay. How about let's compare it to people? Are people smarter than dogs and cats or dogs and cats smarter than people?
Ah, wait!
Yep.
Sorry about that.
That's okay. Yeah, so are dogs and cats smarter than people?
No, people are the smartest.
Why?
I don't know. Our brains aren't just the size of a walnut like the dog's brains are.
Okay. Do you think there are things that— are there things that you can do that a dog and cat cannot do?
There's a lot. You can make stuff. You can build. You can— that's all I can think about that humans can do.
The fact that humans can make stuff and build stuff is evidence that they are smarter than cats and dogs?
Yes, humans are the smartest.
Okay. Well, um, what about birds make nests? So if a bird makes a nest, and how— doesn't that mean birds are as smart as humans because they can build stuff?
No, that doesn't.
Why not?
Birds, I don't know, but humans are just the smartest.
Well, you said it's because they can build stuff and make stuff. Birds can make stuff. You know, beavers. I don't know if you know what a beaver is, but a beaver makes a dam. So there's some animals.
I know what a beaver is.
So if animals make stuff and build stuff, what makes, what do humans do that no animals can do?
We live longer than most animals.
Well, we do, but there are some animals that live much longer than us. Tortoises can live longer than us, and sharks can live longer than us. Does that make tortoises and sharks smarter than us? No. Okay.
I will have to think about this whole entire conversation.
Okay, okay. Um, how about I'll give you one example. Uh, I think that human language is more complicated than any animal language. Does that seem likely?
Yeah, yeah, that does, that does.
So you and I are having this conversation You know, dogs may bark, cats may meow, birds may have birdsong, but I don't think dogs or cats or birds have conversations as complicated as this. Does that seem fair?
Yeah, that definitely seems fair.
Okay. Just in terms of conversation, do you think dogs have more complicated conversations or cats?
I really don't know.
You think they have any kind of conversation at all, or dogs and cats don't have conversations?
We might have some conversations.
Okay.
I mean, probably don't at all.
You think birds have conversations?
Probably don't. They probably don't have any at all.
Okay. What counts as a conversation? How do you decide if something is a conversation or not?
Ooh, I don't know.
Okay. Okay. Well, I just thought I'd wonder with you about dogs and cats and humans and who's smarter and why. Anything else you want to say before calling it a day?
Uh, no.
Okay. Have a good week, Ethan. Talk to you next week, maybe. Bye-bye.
