Jane Austen - Is aspiring to "marry rich" alien to girls today?

Um, I did not get as far as you got. I only got up to chapter 17. Um, so next time—

that's okay—

I need to know more. So where I got up to was the point at which, um, Elizabeth discovered that Mr. Collins was interested in her by, you know, inviting her to dance, or, you know, that he wanted the first two dances, and she's, you know, not entirely happy with that.

Yeah, no.

So give me your take on events up until that point.

Um, I, uh, well, first of all, um, does the scene or part where she's talking to Mr. Wickham happen before 17? Because yes, yes, yes, okay, okay.

Yeah, and, and finding out, finding out that according to Mr. Wickham, Mr. Darcy is not a good person.

Yes, yes, for sure. Um, yeah, so overall in the chapters that I read, I'm on are in the middle of 20 right now, so I read like 5 or 6 chapters, I think. Um, there were 2 new characters— not really new, but 2 characters that started talking more, I guess. One was Mr. Wickham and the other was Mr. Collins. Um, I was kind of confused by the connection between the Bennets and Mr. Collins because at first I thought like he was their landlord, which I thought is kind of weird, but That's just what I thought, but I don't think that's the right answer.

Um, so no, it's, it's tricky. So the place, the estate where, um, the Bennets live, um, is, was given to Mr. Collins as part of his inheritance. And so although I believe technically they have the right to live there now, um, at some point he has the right to take it away from them. Uh, and I think maybe it's— I'm not sure when that is. I don't know if that's when the Bennets die or at one point, but yes, uh, it's, it's a very, very big deal because, um, you know, basically the Bennet girls were raised to be relatively well-off, not super rich, but pretty well-off in this estate. And because it went to Mr. Collins, um, and they don't own it, they are in danger of being kicked out. And that's why the whole kind um, get married thing. Yeah, get married thing. That's why if they don't get married wealthy, they are not in good shape. And that's why there's all this urgency about marry a rich guy. Um, yeah, yeah, right. And then of course, then there's an interesting plot twist insofar as, oh, Collins is actually coming to their house to pick a girl to marry.

Yeah. And the parents really want that to happen.

Yeah.

And I won't, I won't spoil it if you don't want to, but there's like, there's a scene in chapter 19, which is like kind of iffy. But yeah, I won't if you want me to, but it was interesting.

Yeah. Well, the mom clearly really wants them to. Um, so yeah, maybe let's kind of step back and, uh, what do you make of this whole situation of this, um, You know, first, uh, it's such a different world, you know, a world where, A, the girls are eager to get married and marry rich, and kind of social life kind of completely revolves around, um, I don't know, I would say getting married. Yeah, getting married plus a little bit of random gossip. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, that's true.

Uh, yeah.

Does that social world seem Familiar, unfamiliar, relatable, not relatable?

Not familiar and not very relatable. Uh, yeah.

So does that mean that it's impossible to enjoy the emotional dynamic, or is it possible to enjoy the emotional dynamic?

It's possible, um, because I've never been in that situation before. It's interesting to see what they do and how they handle it and what happens.

And with Homer, we were talking about, you know, when Odysseus, uh, Odysseus comes back to slaughter the suitors, that's pretty alien to our experience, as were, you know, things there were even more alien to our experience. Um, in a very different way, Harry Potter, we don't have magic, although Harry Potter is an interesting comparison. Would you say that, um, Harry Potter is more relatable than Pride and Prejudice, or they're similarly relatable?

I think the only thing that makes it more relatable is that it's set in modern times and that there's like fractions of my life in there. Like, there are characters who would have it just because they're like referred to as muggles, but that's really it. I don't have magic and I've never been away to a boarding school and I've never, I've never had my family killed or threatened. So, you know, that's, that's something, right? I still really, really love that series, so I think it's possible.

Um, going back to Pride and Prejudice, um, have you ever even read a book in which, or seen a movie in which, um, somebody was eager to get married?

Um, I think, uh, don't ask me which ones or which films, but I think I have read something of that situation before, but not a book that's like it's only centered around that theme.

And last time we mentioned that there's some similarity between Pride and Prejudice and rom-coms. And in rom-coms, at least some of them, I'm not thinking of a particular one either, but it seems like sometimes somebody openly wants to get married and other rom-coms, somebody, the protagonist does not want to get married, but ends up getting married Anyway, yeah, does that sound right? There's some of them where there is an open wanting to get married and others there's not?

Yes, yeah, for sure.

Um, so in which case, are those rom-coms where there is an eagerness to get married, are those pretty relatable to Pride and Prejudice, or do they feel different because they're modern times?

Uh, well, I think they're gonna always feel relatable in some way because there's that like theme of love and competition, maybe. But they're different, I think, because of the social customs and setting and pressures. I know I only say pressures because the girls are like being pressured to marry a little bit because of their situation, while most rom-coms are like, oh, I'm independent, I'm living alone, I'm working.

Got it.

Modern day, you know.

So it makes sense that the whole kind of social situation is very unfamiliar. Um, although we could look at other historical, maybe books or movies where there's, even if it's not, you know, the love and competition thing, um, you know, I expect you've seen movies set back in the old days where there's kind of, uh, elites and aristocrats and that kind of thing.

Yes.

Um, But going to— you mentioned love and competition as more familiar. Would you say— I imagine you don't watch so many teen movies, but not now. Yeah, quite aside from, uh, you know, Love and Marriage, would you say themes of love and competition are more familiar?

Um, well, I'm not sure it's familiar just because I've only ever watched like maybe one or two. Movies or shows that have that sort of theme. But, um, and it's not relatable either, but I can tell, um, that there is like a competition, at least for Elizabeth, because between— at this point I think it's gonna be, or slightly, or is a little bit right now, between, uh, Wickham and Darcy and Collins, obviously. Um, so those three guys, like the suitors, kind of— oh, like the suitors for, um, Penelope, kind of. Except they're more direct and you can hear them talk more. Um, uh, yeah, so there's competition between those three and I think it's just gonna get more like aggravated.

And again, you're a few chapters ahead of me. There are one way to see it as competition among the suitors for Elizabeth. The other is, um, is for their state. Well, right. But the other thing is, uh, Does Elizabeth have an interest in all three of them, or is there a competition for her?

Just one, I think, at the point where I am, and that's Mr. Wickham. I think that's— I mean, I think that's gonna change later, just like off of my guesses of what this plot's gonna turn to. But, um, yeah, got it.

Um, but would you say that part of the drama is Is the competition among the men— well, is Darcy openly competing for Elizabeth, or how do we know that he's interested?

Uh, well, he's not openly competing, but just like for me, I kind of hope he is because I think he's going to turn out to be a good character, and, uh, eventually. And also it seems like he's sort of— or he is, I think, based on past chapters more into Elizabeth than he was the first time he met her.

That's not hard since he was not into her at all.

Yeah, exactly. So you could tell there's something a little bit there.

And why are you not rooting for Mr. Wickham?

I liked him, but yeah, there's no reason not to like him, but my good guy gonna turn into bad guy Ometer was like kind of ticking. I don't know if I should trust that or not. Probably not. It's probably going to be a fine guy, but, uh, it's— he's a meh right now.

Okay. And how about Mr. Collins? Why not root for Mr. Collins?

Because he's kind of pathetic, I think.

Um, there was a scene in Chapter 19, so you're not there, or I know you've read this book before, so yeah, but not probably ready for Yeah, I haven't read it since I was just a little bit older than you, so— but go ahead. Okay, you can do spoiler alert.

Okay, thank you. So there's this scene where he, uh, openly asks Elizabeth to marry him even though he's like only known him— oh, even look, he's only known her for a little while, and she says no. And then he says, okay, well, since you said no, I'm gonna ask you 2 or 3 more times because women are— because women of your sort like typically act like this. It's just something of science. So I'm just going to keep asking and then you're going to say yes eventually. She's like, no, I think, you know, I'm not going to marry you. Please stop asking me. He's like, no, I'm going to keep asking you. I'm not going to respect your wishes. And he can do that because the mother and father really want her and him to get married because of the estate thing. Got it. Yeah, it just seemed a little pathetic the way he was putting it. That's all.

Got it. I mean, it sounds obnoxious. Not reading it, it sounds sort of rude and obnoxious on his part, disrespectful towards her. Yes. But give me a little bit more nuance as to why pathetic, because I didn't read it.

Uh, well, maybe pathetic is strong and maybe not too good of a word for this situation, but I only said that because compared to her politely rejecting and saying, no, that's not a good reason, I don't want to marry you, he like keeps pushing with the same logic over and over.

Got it. Got it. Well, um, I trust you're correct on that, and I will, uh, I will get there very soon. So, um, I will work to catch up with you next week, and we'll get a little bit farther. And do you know how many chapters there are total?

Like 60-something, I think. So I'm like one-third of the way there.

Okay, we've got a ways to go. All right.

Yeah.

Uh, sounds like you're thoroughly enjoying it.

Yes.

Okay, great. In which case, I'll let you have a great day, and we'll catch— check in next week.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Bye-bye.