Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice to Chap. 8

Um, so, uh, you are up to chapter 8 or through chapter 8 in Pride and Prejudice?

Um, I think it's— oh, up to chapter 8.

Okay, great. And so what do you find so far? Do you like it, not like it? If you like, what do you like? If you don't like, what do you not like?

I like it, and I think the main reason why I like it is because of the dynamics between the main characters. I think I'm now— I'm like starting to get who's who, because at first the names were a little hard for me to like connect with the actual people, but I think I got it now. I liked the dynamic between Mr. Bingley and Jane, I think is the oldest daughter, but the one that I'm more interested in is the one between Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth, because in the beginning he like didn't like Elizabeth and thought she wasn't handsome enough for him to dance with or whatever, but now there was a passage about how, like, he's starting to see things differently. So I think maybe that's going to be, like, a major theme later on, which I think is going to be really interesting.

I love it. Well, yes, you are seeing where things are headed. So let's— yeah, let's focus in on Darcy and Elizabeth. So first, what do you make of his— I know one One way to look at it, when he says she's not handsome enough right in front of her is just incredibly rude. He's an incredible jerk. So how do you take that whole scene?

Well, that made me not like him for one. And I didn't think he was going to make a change in his character. So it was interesting when I read that, oh, he's starting to like Soontsa or whatever. One thing that the book clarified that I thought was interesting was that they clarified vain, like him being vain from prideful. I just forgot which one they said he was, but— and they connected it to him because he was like rude and wants everyone to think of him in a certain way.

Yeah, there's a paragraph. I'm pretty certain we're talking about the same paragraph where they distinguish between pride and vanity. And as I recall it, Pride is about how you feel about yourself. Vanity is about how other people think of you.

Mhm, that's it.

Um, well, before digging into that— and that's an important distinction— um, if somebody had treated you the way Darcy treated Elizabeth, would you ever talk to that person again?

Excuse me? And probably not. I'd avoid them because, uh, especially me, because I feel like I tend to hold grudges. So if someone said that about me, I probably wouldn't come back after that, even if it's been like a couple years.

So what do you think— how— but things are already shifting. We're only into chapter 8. Why do you— given that, I think that's a natural response, is who would ever talk to this person again? Um, why are things shifting?

Shifting like in terms of Elizabeth's personalities?

Well, um, both Darcy— yes, two things. One is Darcy— I forget exactly where it starts, but certainly Darcy is expressing more of an interest in Elizabeth. Um, but then I think Elizabeth is noticing that Darcy is more interested in her as well. So, um, given how rude he started, why do things shift?

I think that she was I don't know if this is the right word, but she was apprehensive when she was talking to someone about how she noticed that Mr. Darcy was like listening in on her conversations and looking at her more, and, um, and she was just trying to ignore it, I think. Um, if I remember correctly.

But you just said you would hold a grudge, so why does she even care if Darcy is listening to her conversations? Why doesn't she just, you know, this is a horrible human being, I never want to interact with him again?

Um, I think it might be because she is a little vain and wants to know what other people think about her, like how they were talking about in that paragraph. That's my first thought anyways. Uh-huh.

So yeah, let's dig into pride versus vanity. So, um, how do you understand the distinction between pride versus vanity then?

I didn't really before that paragraph. Before, I kind of thought vanity was just like thinking of yourself. Or thinking about your looks, like narcissist, kind of thought that narcissist was like the definition of vain, but, and I didn't really know how to distinguish that from words like pride. But now, after reading that one paragraph that we were talking about, that's kind of how I think about it.

Do you think that, um, pride is good, or vanity is good, or neither is good?

I think both of them are are good and can be considered bad in different situations, but I don't think it's necessarily bad. I think it's good to know what other people think about you, because if you don't— I'm not saying it would, like, really, really influence how you'd act, but you'd probably act differently. Um, and then how— I think pride is how you think about yourself, right? Yeah. I think it's good to, like, have a positive sense of pride, not negative.

So let's go to your, um, jiu-jitsu and wrestling. Would you say you are proud or vain or neither about those?

Um, well, I'm proud of my own accomplishments, and I'm aware in the sense that I'm vain, I think, but I don't like try to cheat when it comes to making other people think of me well, I guess.

So give me the healthy version of pride in your, in your accomplishments.

Um, I'm proud of myself for working hard and being able to achieve what I've done.

Would you say you're also vain?

Probably, maybe a little, because I, I love that people are always giving me compliments and saying, oh, you're so good, Alana. That's like, basically, that's like a big part of me. I love it when people give me compliments just because I've gotten a lot in that sense.

And are both equally, uh, you said they could either be good or bad. What's, what's— I, I can, I guess I can see the good part of pride, proud in your accomplishments. What's the good part of vanity?

Um, a good part of vanity, I guess I said that because I thought Oh, it's like, it's good to have a sense of what people think around you, because if you don't, or you assume one thing and you're not actually looking, then you could assume bad things about people or about what they think of you, and so that would affect your relationship with them.

Got it. I guess what I'm wondering is, um, insofar as pride only depends on you, then you can be proud even if you lost a match. You could be proud of how how hard you worked for it.

Yeah.

My sense is with vanity, um, you're kind of dependent on the opinion of others. And so maybe if you're attached to vanity, you— people admire you when you win, but if you have a bad day, then they may not respect it. I don't know, does that seem right, that vanity, you're dependent on other people's opinion, whereas pride is with you?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Um, so going back to Darcy and Elizabeth, do you think that they're primarily— are both of them proud or both of them vain, or what are we getting in terms of pride versus vanity on those two?

I think that Mr. Darcy has pride, I think, but I'm not really sure what vanity has to play when he's— when he or especially when he comes around and starts to think, "Oh, I missed something in Elizabeth," right? Because that was himself making that decision. Maybe internally, they didn't mention that, like, he was worried what she thought of him, so that could be vanity. I don't know.

Does it make a difference? Suppose, you know, somebody didn't want to dance with you. Is it more acceptable if it's out of pride or if it's out of vanity, or doesn't make any difference? The guy's a jerk and we don't have anything to do with him either way.

I feel like it would be bad either way, or both of them would be bad in that sense. I'm not too sure about the customs of that time when it's the sophisticated— I forgot the term, the word they use— the sophisticated practice to do was ballroom dancing, but refinement to do was ballroom dancing. But I, like, maybe there's a situation where Mr. Darcy doesn't want to dance with, like, I don't know, a family that doesn't have a lot of money. That would probably— he didn't— he doesn't want to be— he doesn't want other people to think that he's, like, a book class or whatever. That would probably be something.

Got it.

I don't know, just something that came to mind.

That's okay. We're— and we're still figuring out— you're only 8 chapters in. Do we have any idea why the book is called Pride and Prejudice at this point?

Uh, well, pride because of the concepts that we've been talking about now, but, um, I'm not sure about prejudice. And also I'm not completely sure about the definition of prejudice, so I couldn't tell you right now.

Got it. Um, so suppose— do you know what a romantic comedy is, like a rom-com film?

Yes, I do. I think so.

Uh, do you tend to like romantic comedies or not so much, or sometimes yes, sometimes no?

I've watched a few and I like them. I think they're entertaining.

Okay. Some people describe this as sort of one of the first romantic comedies. Does it make sense? This would be a rom-com?

Yeah, right now it does for sure.

Um, yeah. So in which case, where does the comedy come from?

Um, I know you were talking about this a little bit last week, um, but I— maybe the comedy is just from— honestly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that what I think of comedy can be like directly related to the comedy in this book.

No problem.

But I just got a wide definition, I guess.

Well, I would say these are things to watch for as you continue reading. I assume that you look forward to reading more.

Yes. For sure.

Um, do you like Elizabeth?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I do.

What makes you like Elizabeth?

Um, well, I like how she was like, oh, that guy's a jerk-off, what he said. And he— I liked her. And I honestly like how she's like, um, a little vulnerable and tends what— or can— cares what he thinks about her. Just talking about that because Um, if she was just like, no, I'm not going to think about him again because I'm holding a grudge, then that wouldn't be too interesting.

I, I think you've gotten far enough, but, um, at one point— and this seems like a side issue, but, and maybe a small side issue— but it mentions she's a big reader. Have you gotten to the part where it talks about how she's a big reader?

I don't remember that.

Okay, maybe it's, maybe it's the next chapter or something, but I like her even more then. I was going to say, I would assume that you like her as a reader. How about Darcy? Like him, not like him, or not sure yet?

Uh, not sure yet, because I'm sure he could be one of those dark and brooding characters in that rom-com that are really interesting and fun to watch about, to read about.

Uh-huh.

Um, but in the beginning, I didn't really like him because of that "Oh, I don't want to dance with her" scene.

Of course, of course. No, I, I think it's useful when you're reading a book to like the characters, or at least to be intrigued by the characters. Yeah. Um, And any thoughts on Jane Austen's writing style?

Writing style is in lots of dialogue or lots of—

Yeah, how does— do you like the way she writes? Do you like the way the book Pride and Prejudice is written?

Yeah, I like it. I know in the beginning there's a lot of dialogue. I like dialogue. Okay. She described the ballroom, which was good for me because I don't really know what those look like, um, and the costumes and what everyone was doing. So I like that.

Cool. Well, in which case, I will let you, uh, keep reading, and we'll check in next week and see how far you are and see where this is going and if you still like both Elizabeth and Darcy as we keep going. Okay?

Okay, got it. Thank you.

Have a great week. Bye-bye.