Jane Eyre: Helen dying in her arms and first encountering Mr. Rochester

So first, a confession: I did not get my reading done. I got through chapter 13, so we said 15, so I'm 2 chapters, um, I'm just where, uh, Mr. Rochester is at Thornfield that first evening. And, uh, so I don't know what happens in the next 2 chapters because I haven't read it since I was little. But, um, first we've got, uh, who is Was it Jane, the one who died?

Uh, Helen.

Helen. Helen. Yeah, what do you think of that whole relationship?

And, um, yeah, uh, I thought it was really interesting because I, I wasn't sure of the age difference, but I looked it up and Helen was 14 when Jane was 10, so it felt more like an older sister connection to me. That's why I was extra sad when she died. And they shared that last hug in the bed. That hurt my heart.

Yeah. No, just on the hurt your heart, I would say that, again, I haven't read these books in a long time, but I would say for me, so far, Jane Eyre is much more emotional than were Jane Austen or Dickens or certainly Homer. That is, I think for me, maybe I'll see if it works for you, but I think partly that first-person narrative has more emotional impact. Does that seem likely?

Yes, I agree. That's the first thing I thought of.

Yeah, and as a consequence, it feels more modern and frankly more enjoyable. Does that seem accurate to you?

I think so, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I obviously can appreciate the other ones, but yeah, coming from a first-person thing, and of course, wow, that's the thing with Oliver Twist. With Oliver, I feel sad, all the things he's going through, But with Jane, wow, her best friend dies in her arm and you hear her thoughts. Yeah, so very powerful. What did you think of Helen? She seemed like an unusual character. I'm wondering in what ways she struck you as a— I mean, I imagine you don't run into a Helen every day in your life.

No, I think in some scenes she was her thought process was the opposite of Jane. Um, I know that— I think she was painted more as the— I, I'm not sure if this is a correct phrase, but like, turn the other cheek to the people who kept punishing her. So she was like the bigger person. Um, and then Jane, who was younger, like, still had like a fire in her, and she wanted to make everyone not pay, but like a little less than that for their unfairness to them. So I think, uh, she like tried— she tried to balance Jane out. Um, I think it worked a little bit, especially after she passed. Um, so I think it was a good lesson overall for Jane.

Um, how familiar are you with Christianity and the doctrines of Christianity?

Not very familiar, but I've read a little bit of the Bible, so.

Got it. Well, I would say Helen, you know, very much turn the other cheek is something straight up from Christianity. And I would say in many ways, you know, Helen, a lot of what Helen was saying comes from Christianity, but clearly I would say with these sort of things, some people and characters take it seriously, some don't. And in Oliver Twist, I don't know if you caught that, but there are various asides regarding the hypocrisy of people who came to be— claimed to be Christians, but, you know, let the poor suffer the way they did. Whereas I think Helen strikes me as very, very sincere about her Christianity. And that includes, you know, the notion of going to a better place when she dies. Does it seem plausible to you to accept— and not that I want you to think about death, but it was in the story— does it seem plausible to you to kind of accept death with the equanimity that Helen seemed to?

Uh, I think it's possible, especially if you have her kind of faith. Um, I don't know what it's like yet, but— and I'm not sure what other people would feel if they didn't have that kind of faith. Maybe they would have been like more scared, or I don't want to die. But even at 14, I feel like she had a good understanding of I mean, I don't know if it's— if any of it is true, but she seemed to have a good perspective and it didn't hurt her as much.

Mm-hmm. You know, in the old days, people died, and in particular young people died at a much higher rate than they do today. Is it even possible for you to imagine having like your best friend die in your arms? And is this just like beyond horrible, or how does that land, the notion of, oh well, now Jane's going to have her best friend die in her arms?

I mean, for me, only when I'm old and gray, because I live in my little bubble. So, um, I couldn't imagine, but I know it probably happens around the world in some places.

Do you think it's useful to kind of get inside somebody's head as they live through all these kind of experiences that are so, so very different from ours?

Yeah, I think so. Um, I mean, it's good to experience different things through these kinds of books, things I haven't experienced.

And of course, we don't want to have our friends die in our arms, so much better to experience vicariously. And then there's the wonderful— so there, I'm— I haven't had enough coffee to remember names, but there's the wonderful governess, what's her name? Temple.

Yes, Temple.

Yeah. What do you make of Miss Temple?

Um, I think that she was like sort of a safe space for Jane at the school, and I think she could be seen as like a mother, better mother than the other woman was at the— her original home. Um, she offers them food and consoles them, especially after um, some of the instances where Jane was first like put on the stool or like punished or, um, for things happening. And I think, um, that relationship is strong until Jane goes away. No, Jane actually leaves the school because Miss Temple goes away. So there was like a connection between Temple and the school to Jane.

And is the name of the kind of bad headmaster— is that Brockhurst? Do I have that one correctly?

I think so.

So, you know, there must have been dozens if not hundreds of people at the school, and yet all Jane talks about really are Helen and Miss Temple and, you know, Brockhurst. And I think there was one or one other negative one or something. But does it make sense that in recounting our lives, we really just talk about like a tiny, tiny handful No, she, you know, she doesn't— there's a long period where like 6 years go by and, you know, she just said 6 years went by or so, or 8 years, maybe it was 8 years went by. But does it make sense? Yeah, you're right, 6 as a student, 2 as a teacher. Does it make sense that we really only remember either as a very strong positive emotional relationships or very strong negative emotional relationships?

I think so, and especially out of like all the people you meet, whether it's like in school or on the street or I don't know anywhere else, it's a small percentage. Um, that you remember at least.

Yeah, yeah. And what do you make of, um, Jane's, uh, going to Thornfield? Um, you know, it's in some ways it's just there because there aren't people involved until we meet the people at Thornfield. Do you think it would be scary? Just, you know, you're not yet 18, but she's 18 and she just, you know, goes to a strange place in a carriage for the first time in her life.

I think so. I think I would be scared, but also if I was Jane, I'd have a reason to leave because Miss Temple left, so I wouldn't really feel that attached to the school, so I wouldn't feel very sad. And it's not the first time she's gone off to a new place in a carriage by herself.

That's true.

She went to the school by herself off on a carriage, so she has some experience, but it was a little while ago.

When you went to Dubai, or when you've gone to other places, you've been part of a group or a team, is that correct?

Yeah, when I went to Abu Dhabi, it was me and then a group of older girls and women.

Have you ever traveled completely alone?

Um, no, not yet. Not completely alone. Me and my brother, we flew to Hawaii by ourselves, but, um, like, if they take— honestly, in my opinion, it might be a little over, but— or too much, but I guess for our kids maybe it's necessary. You have a parent or guardian like walking with you. And then wait at the gate and then until you fly. Anyways, it's a process. So we weren't really alone, but maybe when I'm older. Yes, for sure.

Do you think you'll be completely comfortable kind of going from point A to point B when you're alone by the time you get there?

I think so. I'm pretty— I think I'm pretty independent. And if we're specifically talking about flying, I've been fortunate enough to fly a lot. To different tournaments and stuff.

So no, it's so, so different. I'm going in a carriage and, um, all the carriage and everything. It's such a different world. Um, yeah. So what do you think of Thornfield so far?

I think, uh, from where I'm— just my thoughts from up to where I read, um, it's got a lot in store for Jane and Um, I'm not sure if you're at the part where we meet Mr. Rochester.

Yes, um, so there's the chapter where his horse slips, and so I read that chapter, and then I think it's the next, next chapter when she goes with, uh, the little girl and has, you know, and he kind of grills her. Um, you know, what do you make of that grilling? You know, he's I would not describe him as friendly. Oh, does that— would that be intimidating, or do you think she's intimidated? How do you take that?

Well, I, I mean, I would be intimidated. I, I know I might be like put on the spot a lot because we do this, and like, I don't know, I talk to a lot of people, but I hate being like grilled or like someone is mad at me. I hate that, and I get like so defensive and stuff. So I would, I would have a hard time if I was her.

To be honest, it doesn't seem like he's making any effort. Well, I don't know, I shouldn't prejudice the question. Do you think he's making any effort to be kind to her, or is he just kind of grumpy? Or what do you take his attitude towards her so far?

Um, I think— I mean, I might be wrong, but I think he's very serious, and characters like that will soften up over time. Um, I think over time he will become more kind. And, um, this is like the first step in their relationship.

Got it. Well, lots to explore, and, uh, we'll arrange reading next for next time. Anything else for now?

Uh, no.

All right, uh, enjoy it. We'll talk later. Bye-bye.

Thank you.