Loving your child's mind: Alana and I discuss Roald Dahl's books

Great, I'm glad I can hear you. How are you?

I'm good, how are you?

I'm well, thank you. So last time we talked about reading Narnia, and I know you've still got more, you're still farther in Narnia, but we also mentioned Roald Dahl, and you said you had read a whole bunch of Roald Dahl books, right?

Yeah, I have a lot.

So tell me again which are your favorite Roald Dahl books?

Um, I think one of my favorites is Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I also really like George's Marvelous Medicine.

Ah, I don't know that one. George and the Marvelous Medicine?

Yeah.

What's it about?

It's about a boy who hates his grandma because she's evil, and, and he decides to take revenge on her, so she— so he makes makes some medicine out of like hair shampoo and like poisoning and stuff like that, and then it makes her go right off her chair and fly, and then it makes her insides go on fire, and she grows taller than I would say the Eiffel Tower.

Wow. Isn't it kind of awful to have a story about a kid who hates his grandmother and does that to her?

That story, not really, because her grandma's really— his grandma's really evil, and she talks about eating like cockroaches with, or like beetles in sticks of lettuce and stuff.

Wow, so you're— are you saying that if a grandma is evil enough, it's okay to do bad things to her?

I mean, if— I don't really know, but that's how that's just how the character dealt with it.

I see. Well, of course I think of you as just a super nice person. Is it fair to say that you're usually a pretty nice person?

Yeah.

So it's interesting that Alana the nice person likes this story about somebody who does that to his grandmother.

I mean, if someone angers me that bad, I have to admit I might try and do that.

Oh really? So you can get really angry at people?

I've never really got really, really, really angry before, but maybe it could happen.

Got it, got it. Well, that's interesting. So I think last time you also mentioned James and the Giant Peach and witches?

Oh yeah, the witches. Those are really good too.

Okay, I do kind of remember James and the Giant Peach. That was an interesting one. But I don't remember Witches. I think I read it, but I don't remember it. Can you remind me what Witches is about?

So it's about a boy and his grandmother who try to stop the world from witches. So witches are— they're not the usual witches that you would see in like black robes and flying on a broomstick. They hate children, so they try to like turn them into things that adults hate, like slugs or mice. And then the parents kill them. Or like if you're going hunting for birds, then they would turn you into a bird that the parent wanted. And then if they spotted you, they would shoot you and then you're dead. Wow. And then this boy and the grandma, they stay at a hotel and the Grand High Witch, which is the most powerful witch in the world, they— she turns the boy into a mouse, also another boy into a mouse, and then they try to— and then somehow they manage to get a bottle full of the delayed mouse maker that turned them into mice and pour it into all the witches' food— foods, and then they— and then the witches all turn to mice.

Wow, so lots of horrible stuff in that one too. And you like it, it looks like.

Yes, I do.

Okay, well, this is interesting. So, do you think it's okay for nice people to like bad things happening in stories?

I think it's okay because maybe they think it's interesting.

Okay, so I think once upon a time, actually, I think when you were writing your stories, I was asking if you had some bad things. So I was saying, I think, that if it's all nice, it's kind of a boring story. Do you remember that conversation?

Yeah, I do.

So in your stories, are you having some bad things happen?

Not really bad things happening, actually. I mean, wars and stuff, but not like, "I'm dead." So, see what I mean by that?

I'm sort of perceiving this tension between— is it okay if I call you Alana the Nice? Somewhat jokingly. So sort of Alana the nice on the one hand, and Alana who likes Roald Dahl really mean sorts of things. Can you think of other stories you've read where there are pretty mean things happening and that you liked the mean things?

Um, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, those are two of my favorite series, and they have some bad things in them that are interesting, that are very interesting to me.

Um, do you think they're as bad as the Roald Dahl bad things?

Um, for Harry Potter, maybe a little bit badder because like it's all like, like trying to take over the world and torturing people and killing people.

Oh wow.

I like it though. Interesting.

And I forget, is Harry Potter very detailed about these bad things or is it just kind of vague off in the distance bad things?

Um, what do you mean by vague off in the distance?

Well, you know, for me it makes a difference if somebody says there's a war over there versus actually describing, you know, people being hurt and injured in details. That is, you know, it's one thing to have a bad thing that seems way off far away, And it's another thing to like have to look the bad thing, you know, right in the details. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

So is Harry Potter more? Yeah, which way? One?

Harry Potter would be a little bit detailed because like I actually know what's going on. Just like, oh, there's a war over here, like you said, and then I don't know what's happening in it. I actually know like what's happening, all the details.

So if somebody's injured, you read about the blood and the injury and, you know, the death and all of that?

Yeah.

Wow. Is that hard for you to read about?

No.

Okay.

And the good thing about books, I was just reading the book first, so I could just imagine it in my head and it wasn't too bad.

Yep. Well, that's an interesting sort of thing. So Do you think that we learn somehow by reading about bad things in books? If so, what do we learn if we read about bad things in books?

Maybe you can learn not to do stuff. Like maybe if a character, an evil character or something in a book that you're reading was smoking cigars and later in his life he had very bad health issues.

You could say, "Hey, I'm not going to do that." You could, and I'm tempted to joke a little bit that that sounds like the voice of Alana the Nice. Do you see why I would describe that as Alana the Nice?

Yeah.

Or maybe Alana the Good. But it seems like Alana also likes just the really mean, bad part of it. So do you think that's just all of us kind of like bad things sometimes and it's okay to just like some bad things sometimes?

Um, yeah, I think it's okay.

Okay. Um, do you think that bad things are a part of real life somehow and we, we have to learn how to accept bad things as part of life?

I think so.

So when— how do we know when we should not accept a bad thing?

Maybe if you can prevent it from happening, like maybe bullying.

Okay. I mean, it's a different sort of thing, but in jiu-jitsu, on the one hand, there's struggle, so there are winners and losers, but would you say those are kind of healthy good fights where it's kind of healthy competition where it's okay to be a loser in a good competition?

Yeah, I think so.

Have you ever seen anybody either be mean or even cheat in a jiu-jitsu competition?

Actually, no, I haven't.

Okay, which is a good thing. Do you think that it's possible that there are some competitions somewhere where people either are mean or cheat?

I think it would be possible, like maybe if you were like determined, determined, determined to win and you were about to lose, I think you could possibly cheat. Yes.

And how would you feel about somebody cheating in jiu-jitsu?

Um, I would think that's the bad thing to do because, I mean, if the ref notices it, if the ref notices it, he might disqualify you, which means you can't have any more matches. You're basically out of the division. So if you do something bad or illegal for kids, you could get disqualified.

So, um, it's a bad thing because there are consequences. Um, suppose you were a— almost a national champion and you knew that you could get away with winning the national championship if you cheated and you knew the ref would not see you cheating. Would you go ahead and cheat to win a national championship if you knew the ref would not see?

Um, I wouldn't.

Somehow I thought you would not. And can you explain why you would not?

Because I don't want to cheat. I just want to be myself and try my best, and I don't really care if I lose anyways.

Good for you. Um, again, I'm tempted to title you Alana the Good. Um, So do you think that your stories need a little bit more bad stuff happening to be better stories, or do you like your stories being the way they are without bad things happening?

My story kind of has some bad things happening, and I think it's good.

Okay. Is it— it's— why is it good, the bad things you have happening in your story?

Because maybe it'll catch the reader's eye, like, ooh, this is happening, it's so interesting, I'm going to keep reading it.

Do you think that's why Roald Dahl puts these horrible things in his books?

Maybe, who knows.

Okay, well, I definitely at some point want to talk more about Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and James and the Giant Peach because I remember those especially well, and of those two, it sounds like you prefer Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?

Yeah, it's definitely one of my favorites.

Yeah, my favorite too. You know, it somehow, it seems we just mentioned a little bit that there are, do I forget, do the kids die? Like the kid who falls in the chocolate river, do they die or they just kind of get removed from the competition?

Um, Augustus Gloop, he gets saved for some reason and he still gets his load of Candy, but he didn't win. Remember at the end of the book Charlie won because he was the last surviving.

I know that Charlie won for sure. That's, that's very memorable, but in addition to Augustus Gloop, do some of the rest of them die? Do they actually die?

No, they don't.

Okay, so Charlie and the Chocolate Factory doesn't have the really kind of mean bad stuff that these other ones do, correct?

But the little tiny whiny bad things that happen just catches my eye.

Got it.

Like for example, how I think it was Veruca Salt or the other one, I forget her name, where she fell down the rubber chute.

Yep, yep, yep.

Or like TV.

Yep, I think somehow Roald Dahl gets us, I see your smile, Roald Dahl gets us to kind of laugh and enjoy the misfortunes even in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory where it's not horrible, horrible things that happened, you know, like not like death-like things that happen, but I think we enjoy seeing these mean kids, these bad kids. Is it fair to call them bad kids? Is that too harsh?

They're basically bad.

Okay. Somehow we enjoy, we the readers enjoy seeing them, you know, get their what for. Would you say they get their just desserts? They get the outcome they deserve?

I don't think they would, but they still got it for some reason.

Okay. Well, again, we can go much more deeply into this, um, but I want to keep these relatively short. So, very interesting to hear your thoughts on Roald Dahl. Um, we will continue to try to figure this out, plus Alana the nice and Alana the good liking the really mean bad things happening in stories, which we all do at some level. So we're human beings. So thank you very much and we will resume again soon. Okay? Thanks, Alana. Bye-bye.