Loving your child's mind: Alana and I discuss The Veldt

Well, first I want to know, what have you been reading in Socratic, I guess, the last 2 weeks?

Okay, well, this week I'm just— we— Monday was a holiday, so we did Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Um, and I think one of the most— or so we did, we read the Welt, and that took up 2 days because we wanted to get to know it more. We looked at the painting Son of a Man kind of briefly, and then we started reading Mark Twain's Taming the Bicycle, which I thought was really interesting.

Got it.

I mean, it's penny-farthing, but it's a bicycle still, so it's hard.

Yeah, absolutely. So the veld is an interesting story. What did you make of the veld?

Well, meaning or just how I liked it?

Both.

Ah, well, I liked it. I thought it was very stomach-churning. It made me gasp and stuff like that. I mean, it's these kids who kill their parents. I guess you'd kind of gasp at that. I thought it was a great story.

And, um, and what, what do you think the meaning is? Why would somebody write a story like that? Just to be mean? Just to be stomach-turning?

Um, well, I guess it could be a good plot, I guess. But, um, I think that it is a warning to parents and just other people in general to not, well, and for one, spoil their kids too much. And to be careful with technology because it is based in Happy Home or something, a futuristic house. So yeah.

So because not everybody watching this has probably read The Veldt, it may just seem bizarre with no context. Wait, wait, wait, people, kids kill their parents? And what does this have to do with spoiling their kids and technology? So can you just kind of give people a sense for How on earth, uh, spoiling kids and technology could lead to parents killing their kids? Sure. Killing their parents.

Yeah, so basically there's this family who lives in this futuristic home, and they have this thing called the nursery where the kids can go in and think of something and then that thing will pop up. Um, but they The parents are thinking that they're taking it too far because they keep making an African veldt appear into the nursery and there are lions and they're afraid that their kids are getting, not brainwashed, but like colder and not really caring about the parents and more liking the nursery and the actual robot house. So they try and stop them, but the kids get so angry that they trick the parents into going into the nursery. And then I don't— I mean, I guess I already said the ending, so I'll say it again, but the lions eat them. It's really, really— it's very interesting if you read the entire thing.

Yeah, no, it is. It's a very compelling story. I think insofar as authors want their readers to be engaged, you know, I think once you start reading it, it's a pretty engaging story. Do you think it's psychologically plausible that, um, kids could, could go to that extreme? I mean, it sort of paints a horrible picture of kids. Is it real, or psychologically, or not?

I mean, I don't know anyone who'd do that currently. Um, I guess if something like that happens, it could be possible. I'm not sure. Um, I don't know if it's ever happened before.

How about, um, do you think that the concern with technology in that story bears any resemblance to concerns with technology today, or it's so different there's no, no relevance?

Well, I mean, concerns with technology today, all I've heard is like AI is gonna take over our jobs and stuff. I don't know if there's anything else very major Um, but in this case, I think the parents realize or start to do something sort of late and not like so early that they could actually prevent it from happening. And I don't know if they realize that.

But so going back to the spoiling, what— according to you, what does it mean to spoil kids? How, how does a parent know when they're spoiling a kid?

Um, I think that when you're spoiled, or when you're spoiling somebody. Uh, it's you're giving them whatever they want, no nos, no buts, no, um, you're not like, um, I don't know what the word for it is, like you're not telling them why this or this isn't good for you, and you're just giving them it, and they don't care. Um, they don't really care about anything else besides them. I mean, that's my description of spoiled.

Do you think that part of a parent's role is to, we'll call it maybe, set boundaries for kids and limit what kids can do and say?

Yes, yes, I think so.

So that, that's interesting. Um, would you say that your parents provide you with limits of some kind?

Oh yes, um, they do, and they're good limits.

How do you know they're good limits?

Well, so far I've been doing good in, you know, school. And I think that that's helping me not just taking whatever I want and like watching videos all day and stuff, especially now that I'm homeschooled. I don't have a teacher to watch over me. Well, I do. She's my mom, but sometimes she goes out to shop and stuff like that. So I'm home and I need to take care of myself. And it's important that I've learned all those lessons.

Would you say you're pretty self-disciplined even when your mom is gone?

I'd like to say so, yes, I think so. I finish my schoolwork, and if you're talking about that kind of stuff, are you tempted to go and watch YouTube when you should be doing work? Yes, but I usually don't because, um, I like to do other things after I finish my schoolwork, and that's more That's more of a temptation, I guess. Like, I like to play the piano and read.

Well, playing the piano and reading, if those are your temptations, I would say those are pretty healthy temptations because they're both good things. Are you pretty serious about the piano these days?

Um, well, I'm— right now I'm not really learning how to read the notes. I've tried that before, and I think I'll do that a little later on. Um, I think it's fun to just memorize songs. It's a good process. And, you know, it's fun. It's working my brain and my memory.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you think— do you have— have you ever known any kids either where the kids— do you think the kids are spoiled, or the kids kind of chafe against the parents' rules and boundaries, or the kids— there's a lot of conflict between the parents and kids about the boundaries?

Um, well, have I known any of them? Um, maybe some kids I haven't gotten to know too well, so I can't say. Um, like if I just briefly met them, but not anybody that I can think of, or not too seriously anyways.

Do you have a theory for why? So not all, not all kids I mean, there are kids who are frustrated with their parents' boundaries and they try to, you know, the parents and kids get in all sorts of conflicts and things.

Yeah.

Why do you think— so why is it that you and your whole system, I would say it sounds like you and your family and your work and your whole system works without much conflict, but there are, you know, the VELT is sort of an extreme case of conflict. And I guess the question is, are there some families that are at least a little more in that direction? And if so, why, why do you think some family systems don't work as well? Why do some kids and parents fight about boundaries?

Um, well, it might be the child or the parent's influence in how they think they should act or treat their child. Um, and it also probably depends on what, like, the child's or the parent's background. If the child hasn't learned I'm just going to call it lessons, how you should or why you should do this or that, and parents are just telling them to do it. I mean, it doesn't make sense if— or to the child anyways, if you're just— or if the parent is just making the child do something, something, something without knowing the reason. So that could be the case for some families.

So would you say in your case it's important for you to know the reasons in order for you to be motivated to follow rules?

Yes, I think it's, um, a smart way to help boost that. Not— well, yeah, I think it works. Yes.

And the kids in the Veldt, do I— I forget this detail— do you think that they knew the— understood the reasons why the parents didn't want them to continue with the technology all the time?

Um, well, the dad does mention it. But I don't think they listen because they're busy, uh, crying about the house and the nursery because it's gonna be shut down. Um, I don't think they— the parents did a very good job explaining to the kids why they're gonna shut the house down. They just did it.

So you're thinking in a modern-day situation— so there, people do talk about kids being addicted to technology today. Um, sometimes video, social media, gaming, different kinds of technology. But people certainly, especially maybe teenagers, but they talk about kids being addicted to technology. Do you think that if parents explain it much more slowly and carefully, then the kids would willingly relinquish access to their technology?

Well, they may not willingly relinquish. I think that if like they love it so much, and they're probably gonna need a little more time than just a 5-minute explanation.

So if you were a parent, um, would you develop a— well, how would you avoid these situations? Suppose, you know, you may be a parent someday. How are you going to make sure your kids, uh, you know, have as good a system as you have and don't get into this addictive and resentment cycle?

Well, first, I'd probably not give them the I'm just going to call it tablet or electronic too much. So that, and if they do get it, I would explain why we don't do it as much because the child will probably be like, oh my gosh, this is fun. Why am I not doing this more? And I'd probably give it to them a little at a time. And then once I think they're reasonable and know the boundaries enough, I could give it to them. And especially once they're older.

Do you think the concept of being addicted to technology makes sense, or is that a silly or false way to talk about it?

I think it makes sense. I know some kids are addicted to like the Switch or video games or their phone.

Do you think, um, do you think somebody could talk them out of being addicted to their video games or their phone, or is it like too late for those kids?

I think it would take time, and they need a really good reason why to stop.

What is a good reason to stop?

Well, you could bring something into their life, which is maybe just another activity in which they deem funner than looking at the phone all day. I know all parents can't do that, but, uh, I mean, it's a good distraction, I guess you could call it. Um, and then you could explain it to them and why the phone is bad, and then kind of restrict it, I guess, just a little at a time so that they don't get that resentment against you.

Do you have any idea when, uh, the Veldt was written? What year?

1950, I think.

Wow.

Yes.

Wow. I knew it was written a long time ago, but that's even longer ago. I mean, personally, I find it totally amazing that Ray Bradbury, um, foresaw this degree of attachment to technology so many decades ago. Basically, all then you had was radio and really bad TV. So technology was not nearly, nearly, nearly as compelling as it was— as it is now. And do you think we should be concerned about having kids read stories with such grisly endings? Should we protect kids from that kind of story? Or should we let kids read those kind of stories?

Um, I mean, I'm not sure. I probably wouldn't let my 3-year-old read it. Um, I mean, if you think your child is, or a child in general is ready to read it, or you think it would help them or not help them, I think it's just based on the child or the person in general.

And how is— how do I as a parent know if my child is ready to read it?

Well, I mean, you could observe their reactions to other things, other things maybe sort of similar to the veldt or the ending anyways. You could— I mean, just how the child behaves in general, how you think he or she would react.

So the piece where you say how they behave in similar situations, what I'm getting from that is some people are more traumatized, so to speak, by certain kinds, by blood and death and that kind of thing. Other people don't seem to be minded as much. And are you thinking if you see your child really kind of hurt or crying or disturbed by, I don't know, seeing a dead bug or a dead bird or something like that? I mean, is that the kind of thing you're thinking?

Um, yeah, and yeah, that too, and just reactions to day-to-day things. But I did forget about that, and that's a good idea.

Okay, well, great. Well, um, I am— I assume you're still enjoying the Socratic?

Yes, I love it.

Okay, I thought so. I'm so glad you are enjoying it. Some day, Karen suggested I come in and guest lead a session one of these days, so one of these days I'll probably do so.

Okay, sounds good.

All right, but have a great week, Alana. Bye-bye.

Thank you, Michael. Bye.