Loving your child's mind: Gibran "On Children"
Michael guides three students through Khalil Gibran's "On Children," unpacking lines like "Your children are not your children" and "They come through you but not from you." The students wrestle with what the poem means for parental ownership and independence, while admitting they find poetry boring or interesting.
Chapters
Yes. So today we're going to work on a poem. It's by a man named Khalil Gibran. I put his name in chat. The poem is titled "On Children," and he was alive from 1883 to 1931. So he died quite a long time ago. I'm going to go ahead and put the first stanza in the chat. Sankara, do you want to read that piece? The stanza I put in the chat.
And the woman who held her babe against her bosom said, 'Speak to us of the children.' And he said, 'Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself. They come through you are not from you, and though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
Okay, so does this make sense or does this not make sense? Looks like maybe— let's go on a scale of 0 to 10. With 10 is perfect understanding and 0 is you have no idea what it means, um, what would you say it is? How, how well do you understand it? Go ahead and start, Sankara.
I understanding about 5 or 6.
Okay, so you would understand You understand about 5 or 6, about halfway? Would you say you understand about half? Okay, great. Go ahead, Marwa, how well do you understand it?
2 or 3.
A 3? Okay. And Magat, with 10 being perfect understanding and 0 being no understanding, how well do you understand the poem?
Five persons.
Five or four?
Yes.
Okay, great. In which case, I always— my strategy for understanding things that are difficult is to break it up into little bits. And so let's just do the first part. And a woman who held a babe against her bosom. First of all, does anybody know what a bosom is? Go ahead, Sankara.
Um, it's a bottom?
No, no, that's not quite right. Um, Marwa, what do you think it is?
I don't know.
Okay, a bosom is kind of an old-fashioned word for a woman's chest. So the picture you should have is the woman is holding the baby against her breasts. And so that's kind of what's going on here. And then she is asking somebody, presumably the prophet, to speak to us of children. And he said, your children are not your children. Why would he say your children are not your children? Go ahead, Sankara.
Actually, I simply put my hand down. I have no idea.
Okay, Marwa, you have your hand up? Marwa?
Yes.
So why do you think he would say your children are not your children?
I, I would not say that.
Okay, but so what would you say? You would say your children are your children?
Yes.
Okay, so why would this person, why would this man say your children are not your children?
I don't know.
Okay, so that's confusing. Should we agree that that part is just plain confusing?
Yes.
Okay, we can do that. Then the next line, "They are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself." What on earth do you think he means by life's longing for itself? Do you guys know what it means, what longing means?
Wanting?
That's exactly right. They are the sons and daughters of life's wanting for itself. Does it make sense to say that life longs for itself or life wants itself? You would say no?
Yeah.
So does— would you say that life— so do you think life is something that can want something or life can't want anything? Could we say that life wants to grow, or it doesn't make sense to say that life wants to grow?
It kind of does because life is always kind of growing, so I don't understand the meaning he's trying to make.
Okay, so it kind of makes sense that a life would grow, Maybe it makes more— would you say it makes more sense for life to want to grow than it does for life to long or want?
Yeah.
OK. So what do you think, Marwa? Do you think it makes sense to say life wants to grow?
Maybe.
OK. Have you guys read poetry before? A little bit. Have you read some poetry, Sankara?
I've read it, except I didn't really like it.
Okay.
It's just boring and wordy.
Boring and wordy. Okay, no problem. Marwa, what do you think of poetry?
I don't like poetry.
Magad, do you like poetry? Poem? You do?
Yes.
Why do you like poetry?
I think because it is interesting and talk to many things.
It is interesting. Sankara says it's wordy. Different— some people like poetry, some people don't like poetry. It's interesting that Sankara and Marwa don't like poetry, and it's interesting that you like poetry, Magat. Is it fair to say that in poems, sometimes the poets say things in strange ways?
Yes.
OK.
Sometimes the poetry says something and you don't understand.
Yeah, sometimes you don't understand it. So Sankara, would you say when you say wordy, part of it is the poems say things in strange ways?
Yeah.
Okay. So given that you guys, Magat likes poetry, Sankara and Marwood don't like poetry, can we say that, what do you think the poet meant by life's, they are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself? Well, if that's too hard, should I give you more time to think?
Yeah.
I think it might help to get the last two sentences. So let's get the last— or clauses. Let's get the last two clauses, which is really the last sentence. They, that is the children, come through you but not from you. Does that make any sense at all, or that makes no sense?
Yes.
What, Sankara?
No, I said it kind of makes sense, except I also don't understand poetry.
Okay, so you say it kind of makes sense but not really?
Yeah.
Okay. Marwa, how about you? They come through you but not from you. Does that make any sense?
Yes.
How would you explain it in your own words?
Like, they're not really from you because you were made by someone else, and someone— and then the someone else was made by someone else, and I don't really understand.
OK. There is a really interesting thought there. Thank you, Marwa. That's helpful. I want to check in with Magat, but maybe we'll go back to your thought and pull it together. So that's a new thought. It's always helpful to have new thoughts. Magat, does it make sense to you to say children come through you but not from you?
I understand nothing.
Nothing. Okay, no problem, no problem. It's complicated. So Marwa has given us a little bit. Well, actually, I want to check in with Sankara. Sankara, what do you think of Marwa's idea? Does it make sense to you or not?
It does.
Okay, great. In which case, maybe the last line will help us. And I see this as like a puzzle, you know, the puzzle you get all the pieces together and see if you can fit them together. So let's see if we can put the puzzle pieces together. And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you. What does the poet mean by they are with you, yet they belong not to you?
I do not get anything.
Okay, does anybody else get anything? Okay, I'm going to ask— take us out a little bit and think about the relationship between children and parents. Would you say that your parents own you, or do you belong to your parents, or are you independent of your parents, or what exactly is the relationship? Um, go ahead, Sankara.
My, my parents, so, um, they let me be independent and, and, and try to let me do anything I want, but they do restrict me from some things if it's bad.
Fair enough. Would you say that you belong to your parents, or you don't belong to them, or you half belong to them, half not?
I think half not and half.
Okay, what do you think, Marwa? Do you belong to your parents or do you not belong to your parents? Or half, half?
I do belong to my parents.
You don't belong to your parents?
I do.
Oh, you do? Okay, 100%. I see you, Magat. We'll go to you. Are you done, Marwa?
Yeah.
Okay, go ahead, Magat. What were you going to say?
You've muted yourself.
So do you think children are independent of their parents, Magat, or do they belong to their parents?
I think they are independent to their parents.
Independent? 100% independent or half-half?
I think half.
Half-half? Okay. So One way to understand this is when the poet says, "They are with you that they belong not to you," is that there is some independence there. And let me just— I'm going to give you a few more lines because a few more lines may help. So here I'm posting a few more lines in there. Marwa, could you read that next set of lines, please? I can't seem to find, um, that to go to the chat at the bottom of your screen. There should be a little— you see it?
Yeah.
Okay, click on that.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts. For them, have your own thoughts, for me house their bodies but not their souls. They are there for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which You can visit not even in your dreams.
Okay, does this piece make any sense or does this piece not make any sense?
Does not make any sense.
Okay, um, Sankara, how about you? Does it make any sense?
It does make some sense.
Do you want to summarize what you understand from it?
I understand It means like you give them your love but you don't tell them your thoughts because you have your own thoughts and they have their own thoughts. And like, I didn't understand the past where it says you may house your bodies but not their souls. And for souls to Yeah, I don't understand anything under that.
Okay, no problem. It's actually extremely helpful. I like to think of strategies for understanding, and it's a great strategy for understanding to identify what you understand and what you don't understand. So I think that's actually quite helpful, Sankara. Thank you. Um, Magat, is this one— is this stanza making sense to you or not?
That make not many sense.
Not much sense. Okay, I want to focus in on one piece that Sankara brought up. Do you have thoughts independent of your parents, or are your thoughts your parents' thoughts?
Um, I think I'm in thoughts independent of your parents.
Are your thoughts 100% independent of your parents, or your thoughts partially your parents' thoughts?
It depends. If, if you can, if you can, if you think the same as your parents, then it's the same.
But, and do you think that you think the same as your parents? 50/50? 90%? 100%? To what extent would you say you think the same thoughts as your parents?
50/50.
Okay. Marwa, how about you? Do you have your parents' thoughts or your own thoughts? Are your Are your thoughts basically the same as your parents or not?
I have my own thoughts.
100%? Yes. OK. And Magat, do you have your own thoughts or are your thoughts your parents' thoughts?
I have my parents' thoughts.
You have your parents' thoughts? 100% your parents' thoughts?
Yes.
OK. So that's quite a range. Where Magat says 100% his parents' thoughts, Sankara thinks 50-50%, and Marwa thinks 100% his own thoughts and not his parents' thoughts. So do you think that as you get older, your thoughts will be more your parents' thoughts or less your parents' thoughts?
Yes, be less your parents, because as you get older you become more independent.
Okay, um, and Marwa, would you say you are already as independent as you'll ever be, or you will become more independent later on?
I'll become more.
Okay, given you already think 100% on your own, do you think that, um, how can you get even more independent? In what ways will you be more independent?
I think you'll become more independent because, um, you will start, um, having a life and getting your own job, and then you get older, and then you'll have your children, and then, yeah, and then you'll die.
Got it. So with respect to life, you'll become more independent.
Yeah.
Magat, do you think that you will become more independent as you get older?
Yes, I think. Because if you— I agree with Sankara. Because—
OK, excellent. I think Sankara is right. Well, I like to keep these relatively short. So we have not completely figured out the poem. But I think we'll probably want to come back to the poem next time. There's more of the poem that you have not yet read. But hopefully next time we can pull it all together and make sense of this poem, and you'll understand a little bit better how to understand poetry. Does that sound good?
Yes.
OK. Have a great week, everybody.
Bye, Michael.
Bye.
