Chris Hughes 8

We've all been influenced and inspired by our heroes in the trade. Some of them are well-known industry experts. Some are just local professionals who may only be known in their communities. All of them share a passion for shaping people into the tradesmen and women that they should be. This show celebrates those who have taken the time to help us be better at our jobs and sometimes for our families. This is the HVAC Mentors Podcast. Good morning, everybody. This is Mike on the HVAC Mentors Podcast. Chris Hughes is with us in the studio today. We are just excited to hear from him. Of course, he is the the energy conservatory director, director of sales, business development.

Yeah, that kind of stuff.

Um. Yeah. And you know, of course, as trainers in the trade and people that are kind of helping further what we do as HVACR technicians, we really need to understand the relationship between training and teaching. I was talking with Louise Keller from UEI and, you know, that's kind of, she really did a good job of driving home that relationship between sales and educating. I've seen you on a few other podcasts, including the HVAC Chicks. with Jennifer and just, you know, I don't think I understood the TruFlow grid nearly as well as I do now because of some of the teachings you've done. And I know for me, it's definitely inspired me to kind of explore the Energy Conservatory a little bit more. So with that said, Chris, welcome to the show. Go ahead and let us know, you know, about you. Who are you? How are you? You know, what made you you? And how'd you get into the Energy Conservatory? And how'd you get into sales?

Woo. Okay. Small, small question. Let's see, where do we start?

Start easy.

So, I guess let's go back to where it all started for me. And it's funny, it's like, yeah, my title kind of is sales now. Previously was business development, which is, you know, sales. I don't love the title sales, but it kind of, I guess it kind of fits because that's what it is. But sales doesn't have to be like sleazy sales. Sales can be, you know, where it's through education. It's kind of like, you know, techs have big problems with the word sales. Yeah, they do. And I kind of understand why. I've been a tech most of my whole life and I get that. But is it really selling? Is that really the right word? I don't know. It's when you're educating and somebody buys something. It's just somebody has to educate somebody and then a price tag comes with that education and a service gets provided. Now, if you bundle all that, bundle all of that up, I guess you could title that as sales. And maybe that's officially kind of the way it's always been called. Maybe it's time for a new title.

I don't know.

But it is difficult though. It is difficult to work for a company and get to the point where you have to start selling the equipment and then standing behind it. There's a lot of responsibility there. So, all right. So circling back to the beginning, I guess is kind of what you were saying, like, hey, where did it all start for me?

Mm-hmm.

High school. Yeah, that's pretty much where it started for me. My dad was an HVAC technician for his entire life. He started actually in high school. So he, back when he was in high school, they actually had a curriculum you could learn air conditioning while you were in high school. So he learned air conditioning in high school. When he finished that, he went into, at some point he joined the union for a little while. So he actually had to go through an apprenticeship through the union and he got trained through air conditioning again. And then he went into private practice— I'm sorry, not private practice, that's the wrong word. He went to work into the private sector that was not union. And so he also went through air conditioning school again. So he went through air conditioning school 3 times.

Wow.

Which is kind of, kind of wild, right? Like, you don't hear people doing that. So, you know, he did a lot of things like when he was in the union, he also went through pipe fitting school. So he learned a lot about pipe fitting too. So he was very well-rounded at a young age. But back in those days, you didn't really make a lot of money to be an HVAC technician. Like, my dad was not a wealthy man when I was very young, you know, and I remember those days, we were not wealthy people. And so he struggled, we all struggled, you know. And I remember he hurt his back at one point in time. And I remember my mom having to go get a job. And then it was just, man, we were on the struggle bus. You know, um, and I, and I remember that, and there's a part of me that was like, had this level of hatred toward like just the generic life public. I grew up kind of angry watching that because I knew he worked super hard, and I'm like, man, why are we poor people? You know, so that there's like this level of revenge that was always inside of me from watching that and being like that growing up. So, you know, fast forward, I'm turning 18. And one thing I would say is, as I got older watching him, I noticed he got a lot of respect in the community. So when we would go out and about, people were always thanking him. He was very well known as a mechanic. And so like he was, you know, at this point, working on people's homes and businesses, and a lot of people knew him for that. So we would— we were not wealthy people, but he was a well-known person for what his craft was. And I thought that was really cool. And that's kind of where I think I got inspired to go do it as well. It's like, man, that's, that's like a really cool thing to have people just kind of like, you know, respecting you to where they'll go out of your way to say thanks in public. You don't see that very much anymore. But I remember that when I was 16, 17 years old. So When I turned 18, at this time, I had done like a few little jobs here and there, you know, family members, air conditioners, stuff like that. I was doing installs with my dad. So I was, I was getting my hands into it before I got out of high school. And I remember in high school, somewhere about my senior year, I had kind of decided I was going to open an HVAC business with my dad, like that was the plan, right? And so that was the mission. And I think the bigger mission was I don't want to be poor anymore, right?

Sure.

I don't— I want to be wealthy at some point. And all I could see was the only way to dig out of this hole is to go in business for yourself. And so, that trajectory for me was set in high school. And I was like, we are going to— me and my dad are going to make ourselves wealthy people at some point, and we're going to get out of this situation. You know, we're going to be wealthy. And so, that was my mission, you know, and I held on to that with grit for a long time. You know, almost like a level of vengeance, but I don't know who against. So, you know, I get into the trade, I work underneath my dad. There's quite a few years there where I'm just basically building knowledge, right? Like, I was, I was not very good because I just started, although a lot of people expected me to be good because I was his son. And a lot of people knew him as awesome, you know, and it doesn't work that way. If you want to be a good tech, you have to put in the work for yourself.

Yeah, absolutely.

You don't become a good tech because your dad's a good tech. It doesn't work that way. Trust me, I lived it. So he was my mentor and we spent many, many, many nights on our couch at the house. And if I had an issue with a job and I just couldn't figure it out, I would struggle. I was very fortunate to have someone who was going to sit on the couch with me and say, Let's draw this schematic out on a notebook. Like we would literally get a notebook and he would draw schematics at night and he would say, the problem is you didn't measure here. And I'm like, well, what is that? And he would draw that schematic from that job at night on the couch. You know, like I'm saying many, many, many days of that level of training, you know, at night. 'Cause I'm just like, it's not, the dots are not connecting.

Right.

And I remember for a while there, I just wanted to quit cuz I was like, man, I'm never gonna get this. It's never gonna stick. And I vaguely remember, but I still had this memory of being on a job and I struggled with 24 volts for a while. And then one day outta nowhere, outta nowhere, it just, it clicked just like that, you know? And I was like, oh, that's what he means. And I could literally troubleshoot really good. After that moment, it just there was this segue that hit, and I was like, "Oh man, 24 volts! I got it." And then like the whole like grounded transformer, non-grounded transformer, how to chase 24 down—it all came together really, really fast. And it's weird how that just happens. I went from like not very good at all to literally going into the office the next day, saying, "I'll take the hardest job we think we're going to have today that's electrically going to be." It's going to be challenging. I was like, I'll take that one. I was like finding myself going for it more than ever. So that was fun. And, you know, from, from that situation, eventually that led to me and my dad opening up a business together. So we did that like 2009, I think it was. Yeah, 2009, we opened up shop. At this time, I was, I was no longer green, right? I was very seasoned as a technician for commercial work. And that was what we did. We did a lot of commercial work, mostly service and repair, pump rebuilds, overhauls, chiller water lines. We were digging ditches and changing pipe, all kinds of, you name it, we did all kinds of weird stuff. And it was fun, tons of fun. And we eventually did become wealthy. I'm not saying I'm rich, but We did good in life, right? And there came a point where, like, as we made it, that revenge, that hatred of just not having money, like, kind of went away. And so when you lose that, that eye of the tiger drive, that fight, because you kind of like reached your goal—

You kind of got comfortable, basically.

Yeah, you get comfortable and you're like, well, what am I doing now? You know, like, what's the, What's the mission, right? Like, so that's when I started really kind of getting more curious, started trying to say, okay, well, I want to learn more. And where can I go to learn more? I want to do more. I want to do more challenging things. Okay, and I found myself doing more residential work. And Louisiana is notorious for having problematic homes. And a lot of people are taking stabs at problematic homes and like, I'll do this, I'll do that. And heck, I'm guilty of it. Like, I did some major bad decisions on trying to fix houses thinking I knew what I was doing. And I was failing. But I eventually met the right people, which led me to like my second mentor in life, which was an engineer that lives close to me. His name's Leif Wismar. Very awesome guy, super intelligent. And he took me under his wing. And he could tell that I was a seasoned tech. But I didn't have building science under my belt. I didn't understand how to deal with broken houses or broken buildings. Mm-hmm. And he knew he was good at that. And he knew that I was good at the air conditioning side of stuff. And that's where he didn't really have that built into his engineering business. So we ended up crossing paths at some point in life. And he taught me building science commercially. And I would do all the air conditioning stuff that he desired. So we became a team effort. And between the two of us, we became this like dynamite force that fixed a lot of messed up big buildings. And so that was my introduction into building science, which was radical, right? Because it should have started in residential and worked its way up to commercial. But I went to commercial big building repair.

Sometimes we find the path, sometimes the path finds us.

Yeah, basically. And so that segued into residential. So at this time, I'm doing more residential work. I've learned load calculations with the help of him. So I started doing my own loads, doing a little bit of new construction, which we were not known for. And so I started doing some of that. I thought that was a ton of fun because I never got to be the designer. So I was designing jobs and I thought that was a lot of fun. And for me, I thought that was super stressful because it's like you're putting down this plan, this job that's going to go in this house, it's going to last almost the life of the house. It's like super, super important. And I learned there that, man, we just don't charge enough for load calculations, you know, residentially. And so I did. I charged a lot for my load calculations because I was thinking like, man, I'm putting a ton of work into these. I mean, hours of work into one load because I was thinking every little detail out. And I learned that not everybody's doing that level of detail in residential, but I thought that's what you had to do. Commercially, that's what you have to do. So it's kind of the somewhat of the same game. So, you know, anyway, I got into loads and then I got started getting some phone calls from my distributor who was dealing with houses. Let's say they had contractors who were putting systems in and led to houses that were uncomfortable. And, you know, they basically were starting to kind of put their hands in the air saying, I don't know what to do. And because me and the engineering friend of mine started making Edway on commercial buildings. I started getting referred or making a name for myself. So my distributor started referring me to these homes, which led me to doing home diagnostics, you know, coming in as the HVAC person, but really building science at this point. And so I started doing more home diagnostics. And right initially, I was not very profitable in that sector because it was a new game, right? Right? It's like I didn't have a good model I could go pluck from somebody and use. Luckily, we ran a healthy business commercially, through the engineering part, all of that. We had good business practices, and we knew our costs and things like that. So after just a few jobs, I was kind of able to say, okay, well, we can put some numbers to this. And so we did. And we did make pretty good money diagnosing homes. And I feel like I'm just going on and on. Stop.

No, no, you're fine. And, you know, I love Your story and especially the kind of family, you know, it's all about family at the end of the day. Family dynamic. It's about, you know, making the family, you know, not necessarily— I don't get the sense that it was always about just making the family rich or making the family a lot of money, but, you know, comfortable. We didn't have to worry about stuff as much, you know? And to me, that personally, that is rich. I mean, that's, that's where you just don't have to worry about stuff anymore. You don't have to be stressed about, you know, man, can I feed everyone? Are we going to be able to keep the lights on this month? I mean, that's— yep. You know, Warren Buffett can live his life. That's fine. But that's, that's rich. That's, that's fine to me.

Yeah, that's, that's exactly right. I mean, when we would go on a vacation and we were lucky to go once a year, if we, if we were lucky, we would go to Houston, we would drive there and we'd go to Astroworld. And we were the family that would go in and then at lunchtime we would walk out and we would walk back to our car where we would make like bologna sandwiches and then we'd walk back to the park. And so just to give you an idea, that's a good half hour walk to the car and a half hour walk back to the park. So we weren't the family, we were not the family who was going to, you know, go into the park and then eat somewhere in a restaurant because that's just too expensive and you don't do that. We don't have the money for that, you know?

Right.

Those days are gone. But that was— that's not fun. I mean, it don't, you know, I hate to say it wasn't fun. Looking back, I don't regret that one bit. It makes you who you are. I believe it builds a level of grit that you just don't— you can't buy.

Exactly.

You grow up with it. And you have this hustle inside of you that never dies because of being born and raised like that. But I have— I'm not gonna say I don't struggle with it. Because there's times where, like, I look back and I think, man, did I grow up too fast? You know, like, did I kind of lose some of my childhood because of that? You know, was I angry?

I think that's just called being human, honestly. I mean, I think we all have those moments and those moments where we fascinate— fascinate— fantasize about, you know, if I could build a time machine and go back to this point in my life and relive that, you know, but yeah, no regrets. And, you know, obviously, just from your Facebook and social media, you know, you clearly have a very healthy, happy family. I really particularly enjoyed you posting with the kids painting and all that. I mean, I mean, that's just— yeah, that's just great. I'm assuming that the painting is— is that done now? Or is that still a work in progress?

The painting I used to have behind me?

Oh, is that— is that where they were painting in that little video on Facebook?

Oh, oh, no, they're painting my— they were helping me paint the house. So I'm moving from Louisiana to Minneapolis. 'Cause that is where headquarters is based. And so I'm going up to TEC headquarters to move up there. And we didn't quite cross that bridge yet, but, um, so I've been at TEC for about 4 years now. I came in, hit the ground running really hard, you know, that, but that is kind of like who I am as a person. Anybody who's ever worked with me or around me knows that like, I don't procrastinate. If something needs to get done, we just do it.

Yeah.

And if it eats up a Saturday and if it eats up a Sunday, we work through the weekend. We just do what we got to do till it's done. We can rest when the work is done. That's how I've always been. And that, I think that stems from the childhood story I was telling you about.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, so life's been good over at TEC. And that's kind of where I found mentor 3. And there's, I've kind of told this story a couple of times, but meeting Steve Rogers was awesome. The dude is super smart. He never makes you feel like you're not worthy, you know, in knowledge. He will— it's funny, it's, um, I've talked to others about this. When you talk to Steve, Steve obviously knows way more than I do. Okay, especially in mathematics, but he never— like when he's giving you a training, he never makes you feel like you don't know it. He makes you feel like you forgot it and he's just reminding you. He's like, well, you know this. Yeah, let's, let's just, let me show you this. And you're like, yeah, okay. And really, you probably, like, I didn't know it and he's showing it to me for the first time, but he's not making me feel uncomfortable. You know, he has a very good way. Like, if I could go do life again, I wish Steve would have been my high school math teacher.

Oh, wow.

I would have killed for that. Right. Because that would have been ideal. But that's okay. Because like, he's kind of like my mathematics teacher now.

Sure. And you, you know, you might not have been able to handle the full Steve back then in high school anyway. So, you know, it's, you're better prepared for Steve today. But that's right. And just to, just to— sorry, just to back, back up a little bit. The thing that you mentioned is that TEC is now a healthy business. What, how do you define that? Like, what is a healthy business?

So TEC, let's, I'd say let's—

Or no, you were talking about your family business. I think I'm sorry.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was okay. No. Yeah. 2 radically different stories. And I know a little bit about the TEC story, but probably would be better delivered from probably Gary Nelson, who is the founder, or Steve, because they really been there longer and they understand the, the waves that have happened of like the 2008 increase in home testing and buying and the crash and all that. And I didn't live through those days.

We definitely love to hear about them.

But, but yeah, they would have a heck of a story to tell. But for me, what I would say a healthy business is—

I guess that point where you, you, you know, where you determine that your business, your family's business was now healthy. Like, what, what was it that spoke to you that said, this is, we're in good shape?

Um, I would say me and my dad both had saved up about $50,000 each. And we were able to start a business with that money. Now we had a heck of a reputation. And so we instantly had a ton of clientele from the word go. Like by day 2, we were in separate trucks running separate service calls.

Oh, wow.

And it stayed like that after the second day. So a lot of people were gunning for us to try like to help us commercially. And so they were like, people knew, like we didn't go out and advertise because that's kind of illegal. But, you know, there's more details to that I won't go into. But there's, let's just say people, There were some people who knew what we were doing, and they were holding jobs back to say, when they go out on their own, they're gonna get this job, right? And so thankfully, thankful for those people. But we, we did a ton of work that first year, like a ton of work with 2 people. And in the first 9 to 10 months of work, and I mean, we worked our nonnas off, right? And we had gross revenue. I don't remember the number exactly, but it was somewhere around $850,000.

Wow.

In about 8 months with 2 guys. Now, that's not 40 hours a week. That's more hours than that. We were cranking, right?

Yeah.

No job. We didn't turn any job down. And we weren't bidding super cheap either. We were bidding rates that we knew were comparable to the market. And we were getting them and we were just plowing and we were exhausted. But it's funny. For the first 3, 3 months, something like that. You're, you know, when you're doing a lot of commercial work, there's like a pay turnover rate that's like 90 days with most of these contracts. So like if you're doing residential, you do a job for a customer, you get paid right there. A lot of people are used to that, right? That's like the way of the world.

Right.

In commercial, that's really not how it works. You sign a contract, you do their work, there's a, you know, accounts payable, all that happens. And it takes about sometimes, some people will pay you in 30 days, some people will pay you in 90 days. And we had great clientele, but a lot of the clientele we did have that we've had for years when we worked at other places, they were used to the 90-day turnaround, okay? So, you know, with the $50,000 each, we had $100 grand, right? We invested that in our trucks, our parts we needed, stuff like that. So we had already spent a good bit of money. So we had $50 grand worth of parts buying materials. Now, if you're doing commercial work— That could be one job easily. And those who are out there, Yeah, so, so I remember buying a step-up controller for a Trane water source unit on a high-rise building. And the step-up controller was like $2,500. And I mean, it's just an electrical part, right? No bigger than this. And this, by this time, we've already spent like $35,000 buying parts for jobs.

Right.

So that hit hard. And so, but you got to do it. You can't leave the building down. And at the time, we didn't know any better. We didn't have lines of credit with anybody. You know, so we didn't know what we were doing. And this is the funnest part of it. This is the breaking point. This is, this is the best part of the story. I'll tell you, there was a job that came really late in that 3rd month cycle. We hadn't got really— well, the 90-day cycle was getting close. We were close to— we had probably about $25,000 in the bank to buy parts with. Now, we weren't taking paychecks at this point. We're just letting— investing everything into the business. We're eating animal crackers and chicken salad sandwiches every day, daylight to dark. Like, that's what we lived off of.

Oh my gosh.

So then there's this church in my hometown called First Baptist Church, and they have a 200-ton air-cooled Trane chiller in the— across the parking lot. And my— we were— me and my dad started an install the day before residentially for like my grandmother's house or something like that. And it was super crazy hot. And we got a late start because of the equipment that was delivered was wrong. So he went back there to go finish it up the next day, I think it was. And the church called and I was closest. So my dad said, hey, go over there, go look at the chiller, chiller's down. And my dad's just like, look, it's probably just tripped from an electrical surge, maybe blown fuse. He goes, you know, that chiller ain't that old. I mean, when you think with a chiller with screw compressors underneath it, you don't think that that chiller's gonna die.

No.

Right? Those things last a long time. Well, I mean, it had some years on it, but it wasn't super old.

Yeah.

So I went over there thinking I was just gonna go find a bad fan motor or blown fuse or something like that. Well, I go over there and one of the compressors had died, you know? And it's kind of like, whoa, that's a big failure for a compressor, like for a chiller like that. And so—

expensive failure too.

A very expensive failure. So the compressor was grounded away. And so my dad super trusts me at this point, but even him, he was kind of like, are you sure that it's grounded? I'm like, yeah, it's grounded. Like I, I, I'm familiar with that.

Yeah. Like, Dad. Yeah. I'm not an idiot.

And he's like, well, did you take the wires off the compressor right at the compressor? And I'm like, yeah, Dad. I, it's grounded.

He goes, know that I know this.

Yeah, he's just like, can't believe it. And I'm like, he's like, I'm riding over there. I said, okay. So he decided to make a ride, you know, because I'm in my 20s. See, I'm in my like early 20s at this point. And he's like, okay. So he rides over there and he, he ohms out the chiller and he goes, yeah, it's grounded. I'm like, well, yeah. I'm like, I said, what are we going to do? He goes, oh, we're going to have to, we're going to have to kick this one down the road and pass it to somebody. And I was like, uh, what? I'm like, why would we do that? He's like, uh, that compressor is probably like $20,000, $18,000. He goes, if we bought that, we'd be out of money. We wouldn't be able to do anything. And I said, I don't care. I'm like, we're doing this. I'm like, this is a huge job for us. I'm like, there's no reason we shouldn't be bidding this job. So while this chiller's dead on one circuit, Me and him are having an argument in the parking lot about, can we afford to do this or not do this? Right. And so like, we're probably burned down a good, I don't know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And he's just really freaking out. He's like trying to talk sense to me. He's like, if we do this and we buy this compressor, he goes, and they don't pay us in 90 days, he goes, we have obligations to people. We've signed contracts for places. He goes, we won't even have the money to buy parts. And I looked at my dad and I said, you see my truck over there? I will go sell it right now. I was like, we're doing this job. And finally he goes, all right. So he caved and he goes, let's do it. So we decided at that point we were going to quote it. So we quoted this job basically on a paper napkin. Luckily, the clients knew us very well. And so they accepted that even though we were doing formal quotes, they needed a rush quote. 'Cause this is big church, you know, they can't be down. So we basically kind of gave them a verbal price and they said, yeah, but they said, hey, go ahead and write it up officially. Let's sign it, you know, a quote together. And so we said, okay. So we gave them the verbal, we know we got the job, just formality at this point.

Sure.

We need to go do a formal quote. So we go back to the office, we crank out a quote and we send it to 'em. They sign it. Trane has one compressor in stock. So, We call the crane company. The crane company has an availability availability the next day. We take it, so we schedule all this the next day. Now we buy this compressor from Train with cash. We don't put it on a line of credit because we don't have it with them or anything like that. We're just you know cash business. We buy everything we need: the core dryers, all that. We you know we spent that evening going back over there to pump all refrigerant out, all that kind of stuff, prep it. So that next morning, we have some very minuscule jobs going on. So Dad's doing that. And while we're waiting on the crane to get to us by like 9 o'clock or something like that, so I go to Baton Rouge to go pick up the compressor in my personal truck because it's big. If you've ever seen a 100-ton screw compressor, it's not something you're going to probably put in the back of a van. So I take my pickup truck to go get it. Well, I'm driving back to Zachary, my hometown, from Baton Rouge, the city, and I'm running late and the crane's there and my dad's on job and he's calling. He's like, where are you at? I'm like, I'm coming. I'm like 20 minutes away. So I'm pedal to the metal, right? I'm at this point now I'm doing 100 miles an hour trying to get there with this compressor in the back of my truck. And I go over this hill and I decide to brake check it just a little bit. And because I was like, yeah, there's usually cops right after this hill. So I kind of slowed down to like 92.

Slow down.

There's a, there's a police officer right there, man. And I get like my first ticket ever in life. And so I get pulled over and, um, you know, the cop's like, he didn't take me to jail, but he was like, hey man, he's like, you gotta slow down. I said, I'm sorry, this compressor's super late. There's a crane waiting on me. He's like, yeah, I get all that. He goes, but it doesn't mean you can drive 90 miles an hour. I'm like, no, I hear you. So he writes me a ticket. He lets me go. And just like any young 20-year-old, I put the hammer down right when he gets out of sight. Essentially flying again. So I finally get there and, you know, job goes over well. We get the— we lift the compressor, we put it in, we, you know, put in the new core dryers, all that kind of stuff, and we start up this chiller. So job's done. We're high-fiving. This is fun. And now we're sweating bullets. So the next day comes in, we have some like maintenance work we can go do that doesn't cost us any money. At this point, we're, we're like asking ourselves, man, We're going to get close to the point we can't even fill up with gas, right? Like, that's how far we've pushed it. The church calls us the next day. They call my dad, the secretary lady does. And she calls my dad. She goes, hey, Marty. And he's like, hey. She's like, hey, I got this check for the compressor if you want to come get it. And he's like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. And he looks at me and I'm like, go, go now. So at that point he leaves and he drives straight there, gets the check, goes straight to the bank before they close. And puts the check in the bank, which was for about $32,000.

Oh my gosh.

Okay. So at that point, we just went from like maybe $1,000 in the bank to $35,000 in the bank. That's a good day. Now, fast forward maybe 2 weeks after that, we were getting really close to that cycle of checks starting to come into the mail. And 2 weeks after that, a lot of checks came in from a lot of the work we had been doing for 90 days. After about 2 weeks, we had put in the bank, probably to the better half of $250,000.

Man.

And at that point, we knew we didn't have to eat chicken salad sandwiches anymore or animal crackers. And I looked at my dad right there. And I said, I think the days of packing my lunch are gone forever. So I don't think I ever packed a lunch another day in my life after that.

My God.

So that's, that's kind of our success story.

Yeah. And, you know, you can finally unload all those buckets of sweat that you accumulated before you got there.

Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was a fun ride though, man. Like it just, what a, what a good time in life, you know, of something to go through. But that's, that's when we knew we made it. And from there, you know, By the, by that next year, we had 2 more guys, I think, working with us. Uh, our secretary that we knew very well came on board. I mean, we were a company of 5.

Wow.

And then, you know, we had trucks, we had contracts, you know, we like, we were big. We weren't big business, but we were people other companies were like, man, did you hear what they did over there? One funny story that came out of that was there was probably the biggest mechanical contracting company in our town, which is very large. They do all the plant work, very well known. Word got around that they made everybody in that company come in and sign a non-compete with them because of what we had done. And they were scared to death that their mechanics would leave and start their own business and basically, you know, bury them. And so they made everybody sign a non-compete because what we had accomplished. So we knew that we had rang a bell, you know, inside the town. And so that kind of was kind of like one of those feel-good moments when we heard about that. But not that that's what it was about, but it was kind of like, you knew people were paying attention inside the HVAC community. And so that was kind of fun.

And I mean, I think that, you know, while, I mean, we're not nobody, I mean, yes, we want to make money, we want to, you know, make sure our families are secure, but Really, at the end of the day, I think the best companies and the best technicians really at their heart, they really just want to help people. And with that, I think, you know, that appreciation is certainly— I think that's, you know, I think that's icing on the cake for sure. So now, you know, you're doing all right. There's no more chicken salad sandwiches and animal crackers unless that's what you happen to want.

You know, it's funny, I actually like chicken salad. So yeah, heck yeah, you know, good. So I eat it more now.

Well, and to be perfectly honest, I mean, as I'm, as I'm, you know, soldiering on through my 40s, I'm really trying to actually pack more of my own lunches because, like, yeah, you know, like, I can't live on gas stations and hot dogs and, and, you know, drive-through windows.

Eat out every day will, it'll take a toll. Absolutely. And so, yeah, it's like, so yeah, it was nice, but yeah. I ended up getting heavier than I wanted to and then find myself having to fight to lose weight, get back in, you know, try to get back in shape. So like all that eating out, you know, wasn't the best thing.

So now, how did you, how did you find out about TEC and get on with them? And how'd you get into your current role?

Okay. After the family business thing, we ran it for many years. I got to the point where money really wasn't the issue. Right? We had gotten ourselves out of poverty, you know, and we were doing okay and more than okay. Right. And now this is when I really realized, man, I do have a love of the game. Like, this is fun. And my dad, if you ever meet my dad, which if anybody's listening to this soon and they're going to the symposium, my dad's going with me. So he's a fun guy to listen to and talk to. He could tell a lot of interesting war stories. He's been around. I used to, me and him love doing really creative work. It wasn't about the money. Money comes, but we love doing interesting jobs. Well, I got really into finding jobs that were really hard to fix. One, they do make good money, but a lot of my technicians got a little aggravated with me when I would say, we're gonna do this. And they're like, oh man, like this is gonna be another weird one. And I'm like, yeah, it is. I'm like, we're gonna— and I would always say, and we're gonna learn something.

Yeah.

You know, it's gonna be weird.

Those are the ones where you learn and you grow more. Heck yeah.

Yeah, and you grow. And I was at this point, I didn't know what I was trying to do, but I was loving the weird challenges. And so I kind of had a hankering for it. And so at this time, Brian Orr was really launching VEX School hardcore. And we're getting close to like that first year where he did the symposium. And we're chatting, I'm chatting, I had found myself in this online community with a lot of the people you've heard of, like Michael Housh, You know, Gennady Garcia, like we're all friends, we're all talking and dealing with weird stuff. And, you know, thinking like we're these only people who deal with it to this degree, or we're only ones who are seeing it to this level. And so I decided to rent a house for all of these people for the first symposium. And there's like 16 people in the house, all guys that chat online, you know, kind of weird, but we made it happen. So we all go down there for the first symposium. And we tell HVAC stories daylight to dark. Nobody's sleeping. It was just like, man, we found our people.

Yes.

And so much fun. So much fun. And that is really an exciting point in life because you've got Housh, who's just like geothermal knowledge to the max, right? Like what a resource. You've got Gentry doing building science work. Just the people who are just like contributing that you're like, man, I don't know how to deal with that like you do. And so maybe I have a special skill. Like my skill was probably more commercial, you know? And so like I could contribute to these guys from maybe a commercial aspect. Like, you know, we all had our gifts and I was pretty, at this point I had, you know, gotten pretty good at business. So maybe there's some of that I contributed. I don't know. We just passed secrets back and forth. And it was tons of fun. And so at this point, I had started the HVAC Grapevine group, because I was just looking for a way for us to communicate, like in this small circle, you know, I didn't want like posts of memes and this, that, and the other, it was just too noisy, right? I was like, let's make a small group. And so that's where the birth of that came from. And that was a lot of fun. And that lasted for a while. And then after about 3 years, you know, business, the family business has grown and grown and grown. And it's, it's a big business at this point, right? A big business, that's a lot of stress, and a lot of paperwork, a lot of just like, no longer doing the work in the field. At this point in my career, I'm kind of like, juggling things like looking at the finances, Gotta go meet the CPA. This superintendent on this project's giving these guys a hard time. So I'm having to like drive over there and have a conversation with him about, hey, this is my town, you know, watch yourself, blah, blah, blah, you know, like uncomfortable, not fun stuff. And so I was getting to where I was kind of like, this is starting to suck. You know what I mean? So I guess I kind of just lost interest. And so I was looking for something else to do.

Okay.

And my dad knew it. My dad knew it. He was like, and I had told him, I said, hey, I'm not staying here. I think I'm done. I was like, I think I'm, I think I'm gonna move on, but I don't know where and I don't know what and I don't know when.

Yeah.

I was like, but at some point I'm probably gonna bounce. You know, there's a lot of family in the business. Y'all will be fine. You know, I'm replaceable. Everybody's replaceable. You'll figure it out. And, uh, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I had, uh, went to the symposium, and this might have been year 3, maybe, or something like that. And I had watched Steve Rogers join the HVAC Grapevine group chatting, and he was dropping knowledge bombs like left and right. Like, his level of education and the answers was just like, man, this guy is on another level of smart. And so I wanted to be more around him and understand what his background was and how he knew these answers to things. So I invited him to the house. Same year I invited my dad to the house. Now, I didn't know I was going to go work for TEC at this time, but I had an idea of like, I got to see what's going on over there. So, I kind of created my own environment, right? I invited him to the house. He brought Bill Graber, who was also the business partner. And so, we all ended up in this house together. And it was at the symposium, this very moment, I can tell you exactly when I knew where I wanted to go to TEC. And, uh, Brian, this was like year 3, and I hope Brian doesn't scold me for saying this, so I'm just gonna— but I'm gonna say it because he might actually appreciate this. I was like, man, I don't know what I want to do. I was like, Brian's doing this, that looks kind of fun. But then I remember at— I was being at the symposium and everybody was kind of in a class and I wasn't. I was standing kind of by myself. And I remember looking out into the main stage and Brian, I think, was either talking or he was standing off to the side of the person who was talking. And I looked at Brian's face and he looked kind of exhausted. You know, if I'm being honest, I mean, he's dealing with this whole symposium. It's a lot of work. And I looked at him and I was like, that looks stressful. And I'm like thinking to myself, hell, I'm under a lot of stress. I'm like, okay. I was like, so maybe that's not what I want to do. Like, I'm literally just like looking at people like, what would I want to do in life? Well, I turn around and Bill and Steve are at the TEC booth, just you know chatting, laughing, having a good time. There's not a stress like like on a stress level from one to ten. They're like at a negative two. And I'm like, how are those guys like just so content? You know. So I decide to mosey over there and we just start talking and I'm just like. These guys have life in check. You know what I mean? Like they like they've got it figured out. They have work-life balance figured out. You could just tell, right? And I was like, man, I want some of that. You know, and I also wanted the education. And so right then and there, I kind of decided, okay, this is where I want to be. I want to work with these guys. I want to work here. And so I I went back to the. quote unquote animal house that night. And me and my dad decided to get in the big hot tub that they had at the house. And we're like hanging out, drinking a beer. And I told my dad, I said, hey dad, I said, I said, I don't want this to come off the wrong way. I was like, you remember how I was like saying one day I'm going to bounce and I'm not going to stay behind and all that? And he's like, yeah. I was like, I think I know where I'm headed and I just want you to like, you know, be okay with it. I was like, I think I want to go work for TEC and I want to go work for Steve Rogers. I was like, because he's on another level of smart and I want some of that. I was like, and I got to go, I got to go learn, you know, like my journey's not done. And my dad goes, that's it. Yeah. He goes, I get it. Steve's a really smart guy. He's like, there's not many people like that. He said, uh, he said, does Steve know that? Details. I said, nope. I was like, he doesn't know anything. I was like, I was like, but I'm gonna tell him. I was like, and I'm, I'm gonna ask. I was like, and I'm gonna fight to get there. He goes, oh, you gotta do what you gotta do. He goes, if that's what you wanna do, do it. And so that's literally the conversation we had. And the very next day I talked to Bill and Steve and I literally said, okay, here's the deal. I said, you guys need an HVAC technician. I was like, you just came out with the TruFlow. It's not hit the market yet. I was like, in my opinion, you're gonna need an HVAC technician to kind of talk the talk and walk the walk with you. I said, you guys are engineers. I was like, nobody's gonna probably entertain what you got to say. And that was maybe a little mean, but I was being really brutally honest. And I said, I think I could help you guys a lot in that front. I said, and in return, I just want to basically get more intelligent and I want to be, I want you guys to take me to another level. Mm-hmm. I said, that's the trade-off. I want something, you want something. I think we could work this out. And so it— I didn't get like hired right then and there. It took a few months, but after about 6 months we collaborated because they weren't really ready to take me on at that point. You know, financially it's a decision, but 6 months or so it finally came to life and I ended up over at TEC. And so, you know, And if anybody's been watching, that's kind of been like the history of like going there. Learned a ton. Um, took a little while to get my, you know, get my feet wet. But once I got my feet wet, um, I started finding ways to kind of, I guess what I'm saying is help the industry be a little bit of a better place.

Yeah.

You know, I'd like a kind of like a, I'm kind of like a I'm the middle person, man. Like sometimes engineers talk over technicians and sometimes technicians need it put down in terms they understand. And I feel like I'm a good middle ground for that. And so that's kind of what I've been doing since I've been here.

The cool thing about TEC and, you know, one thing that I, you know, I've appreciated again with, with watching some of their online content, watching some of the presentations that I've seen is They, they don't have a lot of products. I mean, they have— they have 2. I mean, I guess 3 main devices. And then they have your gauges, which there's, I think, 2 versions of, correct me if I'm wrong. And then several apps. There's actually probably more apps than there are products.

Yeah.

But everything that they do, they do it to 11. I mean, it's like, yeah, here.

Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. And so I like to say it's like, they're engineered products, you know, so they don't— they're not cheap. And the products come with a level of training that you need to understand if you use them. And so, you know, we do a lot with NCI. NCI is a big training partner of ours. We haven't went to distribution with the TruFlow. And the reason, and this is something I would hope that when people hear it, there's like a huge level of respect for TEC for this. When I came to TEC, I told my boss, Bill Graber, I said, man, I was like, we could move a ton of these. I was like, I know people in distribution everywhere. And he was like, yeah, we don't want to do that. And I was like, what do you mean you don't want to do that? He goes, we're going to build an oak tree. He goes, it's going to take a long time. He goes, Chris, how many of your friends you know have flow hoods? I said, everybody I know has a flow hood. He goes, where's their flow hood right now? I said, I don't know, maybe in one truck, maybe at their office. He goes, how many you think sit in a closet and collect dust? I said, most of them probably do. I said, ours probably does right now. You know, talking about when I was at, you know, the family business. I said, yeah, they collect dust. We barely dig it out. He goes, And why is that? I said, I have no idea. He goes, because the education is not there behind that tool. Somebody did not drive the importance of what that tool is capable of. He goes, and if you don't value a tool, then you won't appreciate the tool.

Yep.

He goes, so if we're going to make this TruFlow successful, we have to make people understand what it's capable of and how valuable it really is. He goes, and we're not going to do that by trying to flood the market. He goes, we have to educate the market. He goes, so your job is to educate the market, not go door to door knocking and selling one at a time and try to. He goes, you got to grow the the knowledge of what why is it useful? And and so that's been the journey.

Yeah, and I I feel like that's something you're doing really well because you know it's not about you know buy a True Flow grid, you know buy now and financing available and blah blah blah blah buy one get one free. It's it's uh it's just here. This is what this can do and this is why it's really important. And just like, you know, combustion analysis was a thing that people didn't really think about. And now in the last few years, people are actually starting to talk about it more and it's becoming more like, you know, why aren't you doing that? Oh, that needs to be done every time. Airflow, man. I mean, that is what the whole thing is. That is HVAC. It's all about air.

Yeah.

When I taught trade school, first thing I, first day I would always tell my students, and I did the intro class, was, you know, Real estate has the, the slogan, location, location, location. In HVAC, it's airflow, airflow, airflow.

Yeah. And it is 100%. And I'll tell you, I did not have the level of deep appreciation for the airflow to the degree I have now. And I, I get that. I see that in people's eyes whenever, like, I may get to do a training, you know, I'll train people because I deeply, deeply understand it now.

Right.

And I get how hard it is to measure and I get the impact of it. And when I try to drive the importance, sometimes there's people in the community that you'll see their eyeballs and they're like, you know, whatever, you know? And then there's some people who are like, they think about a job that they couldn't get right and they're like, man, that's the problem? And it's like, yeah, that's the problem. And then it clicks for that person. So you don't always win over everybody. You know, but you're— there is always at some point someone who's ready to hear that message, who's dealing with a job, or they had a job that they're just like, couldn't figure it out, maybe didn't even think about chasing down airflow and getting static under control. And when they hear that for the first time and they put those puzzle pieces together, it's just like that electrical conversation I had earlier where it just like clicked one day.

Yeah.

Like, I get to see that periodically now where it goes— people go, wait a minute, Wait a minute. I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's cool.

Exactly. And then when you bring into like, you know, like that Minneapolis blower door that you guys have, I mean, the tightness of your house, how many— gosh darn it, how many white shirts go into houses and, you know, talk, you know, Mr. and Mrs. Brown into getting a new furnace when the problem is their windows just haven't been caulked in 20 years?

Yeah, that's a— man, a whole nother world. You know, it's like, where, when do you, when do you take people to that? I don't know. This is the industry still trying to figure this out. If I'm being frank, like, I would say I'm not going to condone somebody for not having a blower door right now.

Right.

Because if I'm coming from the HVAC world, taking myself to running a blower door test and then implementing that into my loads, most people on this, in this circle that I just described, Are not doing loads. Sure. So we got to get them to start doing loads. Yeah. And then we have to figure out how to get them a blower door in their hands so they can take the infiltration number and put it into the load. But like they're not even in loads yet. So like we have, you know, the the trouble with surrounding ourselves with like the smartest guys in the industry and hearing these classes is like there is this whole. Other 98% of the community that is not doing half of what the 1% do. And so how do we reach over there and say, hey, this is important, and have them not rolling their eyes? That's a hard, that's a hard job. Absolutely right. And one that I think we're— there's a lot of us who are trying to figure it out. Yeah. Um, I actually had, um, just yesterday Like 2 guys locally to me. They called, they called with a TruFlow question. One of them bought a TruFlow and they were in their early 20s, you know, and it was a tech support call and I noticed it was a 504 number and I was like, I said, hey man, I said, 504. I said, where are you at? He goes, oh, I'm in New Orleans. I said, dude, I'm in New Orleans. I'm like, where are you? Who do you work for? You know? And he was asking TruFlow questions. And I said, man, just ride over to the house. I was like, I have a lab unit over here. I was like, you should just ride over. This will be a whole lot more fun if you just come to the house. And he was just like, what? I could ride over? I'm like, I'm like, yeah, man. I was like, it'll be fun. Yeah. And so him and his coworker decided to ride over. This was yesterday afternoon. And we spent 2 hours in the lab with the TruFlow device. And I was kind of like, Telling them, and they're, and they are HVAC sales. These guys are not like, they didn't come from a service technician background. They are salesmen. And I said, are you guys dealing with pushback? I said, one of them had just left a company because they literally, the owner told him, do not sell any ductwork. And I was like, wow. And so he went and found himself a new job. Smart guy. And so he wants to do it right. And he's like, man, he goes, I give all of these homeowners my telephone number. He goes, so if there's issues, I get all the phone calls. He goes, and I just don't want those phone calls. I want life to be better for these people. I want to sell the quality jobs. He really wanted to do a good job. And I said, are you getting issues with calls? And he had been to an NCI training. One of them had been to an NCI training. So he gets it. He kind of gets it. He's like, yeah. He goes, I don't want those calls. He goes, how do I not have these calls? And so I tell him, I was like, man, we could get you there. We can get you to a point where you can stage the right cell for the job with the right materials for the install crew to do their job. And then those headaches that you're getting with the phone calls coming back to you can kind of go away. They're not all going to go away. There's always going to be a manufacturer issue with a piece of equipment that didn't work right and all that. I said, but the ones where their return's not sized properly because the filter's too small. I was like, you can prevent that. You can prevent that starting today if you want to. And so we, once we had that conversation, I gave him 2 hours of just like hammered down training right in my, like right at my house, you know? So I'm really curious to see how that's gonna kind of gonna go.

Well, he's local to you. You can literally, I mean, you can just call him up. You could have him over for lunch. You could, you could possibly even go to the customer's house with him and see what's going on. And, and that's so cool.

It's, it was, yeah, it was fun, man. So it was like my, I don't get to do that very much, hardly ever. So it was fun to do it. And while they probably greatly benefited from those 2 hours, what, what really benefits though is I get to benefit and I'll tell you how. There's questions like we get people all the time who want the TruFlow app to do this. They want to do that. And super user features out of this at the yin yang, like, hey, can I, can I make it, you know, do this? I'm like, yeah, we could. So there's a fine balance of what this tool needs to be used to raise up like that 98% I was describing earlier.

Right.

And these guys don't have this insane, insane deep background, right? Like they're in their 20s and they haven't, they haven't been in the realm that long. And so I was watching them as they were running tests and asking questions and I was thinking, man, we got to be careful here. We can't get too carried away with super user features. 'Cause if we do, we're just gonna build this app for the 1%.

Right.

And we're gonna leave the other 98% behind.

Yeah.

So I learned something yesterday. I was like, we gotta really always be thinking about people who are not like, I mean, those 1 percenters, they could get by without a tool.

Oh, they'll figure it out on their own anyway.

They know everything. They're the kind of guys who could go fix anything with like a meter and a Phillips head screwdriver. But you know, they use all their senses and they, they, you know, they got gifts.

It doesn't even have to be a piece of HVAC equipment. It doesn't matter. They will figure it out.

Yeah, they'll figure it out. Right. Yeah. And, and they're super—

gosh, you know, I, I really appreciate those kind of guys, but you're right. You know, if you're training or if you're marketing something or, or trying to get people, people's minds wrapped around a thing, I mean, we've gotta think about, you know, aiming for the middle. Rather than, yeah. You know, one question, and I've really enjoyed our conversation today, Chris. And you know, I definitely want to respect your time, although I could, I could sit here listening to you tell stories all day. And you're a heck of a storyteller. I'm sure you got them.

But I've got my fair share.

But hey, you know, but one question I always like to ask everybody, how are you challenging yourself? To learn and grow right now? Like, what are you, are you reading something? Are you trying to practice something? What's, what's in Chris's world?

I would say at this point in my life, you know, for the, for the last, say, 4 years, I've been over here digging deep, digging deep, trying to be the best I could be at TEC. Um, and that is, you know, learning how to teach, cuz I've never had to be an actual teacher. So like doing presentations, how to present well, how to make sure people receive the message well. So like, I'm really focused on that right now more than like the, the details of how equipment works. Like I've, I've spent 20 years doing that. Like now it's like, okay, how do I communicate what I can do to help? So like learning how to be a good educator, which, you know, the whole story I've kind of told you loops back to sales. And that's why when I see sales now, I hope people see sales is not a sleazy word because I don't see myself as a salesman.

Right.

I see it as like someone who's trying to turn the tide. But I'm working on that side of me. And what I would say I'm more so trying to work on myself lately is become more well-rounded.

Sure.

For example, like, um, I don't know a lot about history. I, I, you know, if you ask me about the World Wars, I can't tell you very much cuz most of my life I didn't really care. I just paid attention to HVAC. That's all I cared about.

Yeah.

So like my knowledge on other things is weak and I kind of hate that part of me. So I've been reading like books on World War I, World War II. Why did it happen? What happened in history? Why is this country mad at us? Stuff like that. I don't know a lot about that kind of stuff. So I'm trying to bring myself up to speed about history because I'm at a point in my life now, I find it more interesting. So like, that's kind of like my habit, I guess you'd say, is I'm trying to dibble dabble in that world.

Of course. That, that all sounds good. That's, yeah, I definitely get that being in the kind of like, you know, what's, what's the history, what's the background, and just kind of slowing down and, you know, thinking about what was. But then also, I don't know, I'm in a kind of stage where I'm trying to get down to like, what is the core? Like, what is the core of what I'm trying to accomplish? You know, and then, you know, what do I want to be known for? And I, I think that's an important part of the journey. No, for sure.

100%. I think you, and you also have to also remember there needs to be a level of fun. Oh gosh. Yes. Because if you're not having fun, you're not going to continue to do it. So, you know, there's got to be huge interest. Now it's not always going to be fun, but there needs to always be some level of fun that you're having at work to drive that mission.

And so, well, Chris, I definitely appreciate your time and having us on the Or being here on the HVAC Mentors Podcast. The— I'm sorry, I just completely— I'm gonna have to edit that out, but I just completely drew a blank. But definitely appreciate having you here on the podcast and hanging out with me. So where can people find you on social media?

Sure.

And whatnot?

So, you know, I kind of bounce around. The HVAC Grapevine is a channel that I've started. Me and Michael Cianfracco run that. He's a ton of fun. That is a great group. So I'll usually chit-chat in there a lot. I'll try to circulate through all the other groups too. You'll probably see more of me driving a little more to the TEC group. I'm trying to do a little bit more content there coming forward. I would say for anybody who's looking to see what we're up to, I would highly, highly recommend them to subscribe to the TEC newsletter, which they can do from the homepage at the site, go to the bottom. There's a newsletter signup. It's not a boring newsletter. The newsletter typically is the place where if we do an enhancement on a tool, because like you said earlier, we have a ton of software. So the software is always being updated. So if you're wondering, okay, how does this work? What's the new improvement to it? There's usually a video we're going to make and it's in the newsletter. That is the first place we drop anything when we're trying to get the word out. Great.

Great. Well, definitely look for We look forward to hearing more from you, especially with AHR coming up. I'm sure that there'll be stuff coming out. And everybody, thank you for listening, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time on the HVAC Mentors Podcast. This was the HVAC Mentors Podcast. The HVAC Mentors Podcast is sponsored by the HVA Chicks Coalition, offering free resources for HVA HVACR students and technicians, along with a free 24/7 tech support line. Check out the HVA Chicks Coalition Facebook page for more information. Please like, subscribe, and share, and thank you as always.