HVAC Mentors 5 Louise Kellar

We've all been influenced and inspired by our heroes in the trade. Some of them are well-known industry experts who have written books and made videos. Others are local professionals who may only be well-known in their communities. All of them share a passion for shaping people into the tradesmen and women they should be. This show celebrates those who have taken the time to help us be better at our jobs and sometimes for our families. This is the HVAC Mentors Podcast.

We are here on the HVAC Mentors Podcast. I am Mike, and with me today is Louise Keller from UEI. If you are an HVAC tech, if you've been out there in any capacity, you likely have one of— one or many of their tools in your truck or in your tool bag. I'm talking multimeters, I'm talking—

Multimeters.

Manometers and any kind of instruments or gauges. So Louise, welcome.

Thank you.

How are we doing today?

Ah, doing well, minus, you know, our weather out here has been a little bit on the frigid side, but I guess that's the great news, right? Because people don't like being cold. So it is a busy time of season for everybody out there. But other than that, we got some sunshine and it's gonna be a great day for us.

Absolutely. So, you know, Louise is the— now you're the head of training for UEI?

I'm the national training manager for UEI test instruments.

Okay, well, what is that all about? Like, what does your average day look like as the head of training for UEI?

So, you know what, it's kind of a— it's a great spot to be in because it's never exactly the same day twice in a row. So I'm responsible. I do a lot of our actual training. So I do, I spend a lot of time. We do virtual and in-person trainings on the dangers of carbon monoxide and how to do combustion analysis. I do some on just what do the basic symbols of your meter mean. We also help create some of the training content. So there's, there's different organizations to work with as far as that goes to create training content for those. I deal anywhere from contractor level all the way up to wholesaler level in that training. So it's kind of a variety of things that I get to do, but it is definitely never the same day twice, which makes life exciting for me because I am not one to do well with monotony and do the Do the same process in and out every single day.

No, nobody wants to deal with the redundancies and the repetitions of the same thing over and over again.

Uh, you know, there, there are some people though that really do love doing that. And, you know, uh, unfortunately my brain just is not built to be able to do those. But we need those people. We need those people who are able to do those things day in and day out and have the repetition. I just, I don't thrive so well in that situation.

Right, exactly. And I guess what I mean is like most of us in the trade don't really do well with the same thing over and over again. So you're definitely one of our own and we appreciate you. How did you, how did you get here? Like what was your backstory?

So, you know, it's been a really interesting journey about how I've become the training manager for us. You know, my background, if you dive deep enough into it, wasn't anything in the HVAC world. My background was a whole lot in retail, retail management. Right before I joined UEI Test Instruments, I worked in the optical field. So I was the person that helped you pick out the right frames that look good on you and explained out how the lenses on your glasses worked and, and all of those type of things. But, you know, something really interesting happened. You know, I had an opportunity. So I'm based here in Indianapolis, Indiana. which is where UEI tests instruments. It is where our lab facility is and all of our distribution is based here in Indianapolis. UEI put a location here a little over 10 years ago, and I joined the team about 9 years ago. During that time, I've worked from customer service. Most recently, before I took over the training role, I was actually on our sales side of things. And I think, you know, there's something really important because I think training and sales really go hand in hand. They're 2 different skill sets that people are going to be using, but they truly do work with each other. And I think that works for a lot of our contractors as well, because I think a lot of people that are out there watching now, most of them didn't ever say, you know what I want to be when I grow up? Is in sales. But when you have the right tools and you can have those conversations with customers, because you might be the world's greatest, you can fix anything and everything that is out there, you understand all of it, but you also have to train your customers. Because when you're, when you're explaining and you're being able to go through those things, it helps make that sales side of things just So much easier. So we, a lot of our our techs and contractors out there, they're inadvertently being the salespeople because they are the first contact that a homeowner or a business owner may have. And so being able to educate your customer, and I think I think education is just a it's a huge opportunity. Like obviously there's a reason that you're doing this podcast, but I think education is so important, and I think there's a a never-ending journey, especially in this industry. Because even just seeing what has changed in the last, you know, 9 years that I've been in the industry, and most notably, I mean, we're going through, uh, one of the biggest changes in the industry right now with the A2L changes. Um, it doesn't stop, and there's always something more to learn. And I think that's what makes this field so exciting is that it's not stagnant, that there are always more and more things for us to learn. And even when you think you have a pretty good broad range, you get into the specialties of it. And I just, I don't think enough people out there really realize just how broad the HVACR industry really, really truly is. You know, you have those, I, I obviously, I work for UEI Test Instruments, so my specialty is going to be in the tools and how do they work. But you have other places that are gonna specialize in airflow. They're gonna specialize in this, they're gonna special— and when all of those come together, it's just, it's a really beautiful thing that happens. And I think that that never-ending possibility of growth is a huge thing.

So you talk about sales and educating almost interchangeably. And I love that because it feels like, see, it feels like a lot of the best technicians out there are really, they're thirsty for knowledge.

Yeah.

They're thirsty to learn. And later on they become great teachers for that reason. But when you start calling it sales, that's when it's almost like, you know, like, you know, putting a cross up in front of a vampire.

It's like, not sales.

No.

But really, I mean, isn't, isn't really the best, um, at the core of sales really is educating your customer.

Oh, 100%.

And helping them to make the most informed decision.

Correct.

So how, I guess, I guess what I'm trying to ask is how do we help our colleagues to understand that, you know, sales isn't the white shirt technician showing up, you know, in a little mini pickup truck, you know, with with the only tool they have is a laptop, they look at the filter and just say, yeah, you need a new system. You know, the kind of charlatans that this industry has grown to really despise. You know, how do we help our technicians to understand that we're not asking them to be that when we're asking them to understand sales or the sales side of their role?

You know, I'll tell you, I don't think it's just relegated to our industry. I think there's a negative perception honestly of just what a salesperson can be. Even, even, even I have fallen trap to that as somebody who has been in sales, right? But there's, there's different types of salespeople out there. Everybody, you know, there's, there's your sharks. They're just out there. They just want to sell, sell, sell. And they're not really going to bring a whole lot of value to you when you get in the long run.

Right.

And I think, you know, when we're, when we're in the industry that we're in, You know, there's the short game, but there's the long game that you're also playing. And that long game is your repeat customers, your word of mouth. I mean, there are a lot of companies out there who don't do a whole lot of advertising, and it's just been word of mouth.

Yeah.

But when you start talking to them, you know, there's— unfortunately, there's just this— and for, I would say, lack of a better term, there's There's the idea of the sleazy salesman. They're just going to pile on everything and they're just going to keep saying, you need this, you need this, you need this. Now, if you give somebody options—

Right.

But if you give somebody options and those options are based in, okay, I can do X for you and I know that you need X, and now I've been able to show you like You've seen me with tools. You've seen me with these things. I'm able to provide you some sort of reporting for it. That really changes that conversation because no longer are you the salesperson that's just, you know, adding on to add on. You're now adding value to what you are doing by being able. And the other thing though is that it goes back to that education part because Let's be honest, your average homeowner, they have a vague idea of how their system works. But if you're able to give them some of that education, some of that knowledge, and be able to speak it in a language that they're going to understand, because that's the other key point, right, is that it's a very technical— I mean, when you get into HVAC, Yes. it's very technical. But how to describe that, how do you use the terms? that are going to be the most useful. And so by being on a tool manufacturer, right? Like I'm the one that gives the contractor, the technician, the tools that they're going to be able to say, like, even if it's something simple, like, you know, when we're talking about combustion analysis, like it's really easy. If you've performed a combustion analysis, your homeowner is probably not going to understand all 12 of those metrics that are going to print out on the receipt. But if there's a couple of key ones that you're able to say, hey, you know what, I'm looking at this, I see this number, this is where the industry standard is, this is where we need to be, your equipment just is not passing it. I've been able to do all of the things, right? Like I've gone through, I've checked the gas pressure, I've checked airflow, like and we still can't change this number to get it into, it's really time to upgrade your system. You're educating your customer about a specific metrics that's on that report.

Right.

And now to say, hey, upgrade to this. You've— unfortunately, you're a salesperson, but you're also the trusted resource for the homeowner in that situation, and you've educated them. Because now, say for whatever reason, they have an issue and they have to call somebody back, and you're just swamped and you're not able to get there. They wind up with a different technician, and that different technician isn't able to provide any of that other education. They're not as vested in that technician. They're not going to be as invested in your company, and they might start going. You know what, this is kind of not great right now, but I'd rather wait until, you know, so-and-so is available to come out and, and do this because I really like that they explain things out to me.

Right. And I think you hit on, um, the kind of key fundamental, uh, point that we need to make as, as technicians, uh, as business owners, but then also as, as salespeople. Is relationship.

Yes.

Because I mean, can't I just walk into your home and give you all of this technical data and all of this information, you know, about your system? And it may be true, but, you know, if I haven't established a relationship with you and gained your trust, Then, you know, you are going to automatically question, well, what's, what's okay? Is this guy just dazzling me with a bunch of stuff to try to sell me something? So, oh yeah, you know, how do we as, as, uh, technicians then kind of disseminate that in a way that the, the customer can understand? I mean—

And I think some of that is just going to be a little bit of learning. Um, as far as, you know, sometimes there's trial and error because the way that I may present something to a customer and the way you present it could be very two different realities. And you have to find the voice. And I think this is the biggest key, is I think you have to find that voice that's authentic for you.

Yes.

That makes the most amount of sense, right? Because the way I do things and the way you do things They can come off 2 very different ways, even though we're, we're spreading the same message. But I think when you get down to it, like, just being authentic. If the customer is gonna ask you a question, like, you, you have to be truthful with them. Like, they will notice if you're not being that way. And I think authenticity makes it so much more because it is building relationships, right? Like, Yeah. Our entire life is building relationships, whether you realize it or not.

Yep.

You know, from our friendships to our industry friends to our family to customers. Like, if you are just being that, that shark, that's not going to come off authentic. It's not going to get you farther in the long run. And it's not gonna help create those relationships. And I am really a— I'm a social creature, and I'm big on building those social relationships. So, you know, that's, that's part of the reason. I'll tell you, you know, we got to chat a little bit before, before we, we got this all set up today. And one of the things that I just really, really liked was that you could just feel your authenticity coming through.

You're—

you have a genuinely great concept. It's going to evolve. We talked about that. We even— we've even seen it evolve. And this is what, episode 4 or 5 now? I think that you've recorded.

This will be 5.

Okay, so this will be number 5, right? So I didn't want to be your complete guinea pig, but I'll still be in at the— but I think that authenticity really makes a difference and it sets people at ease when they're going to be able to have a conversation with you and being able to relate to people. And you know, go ahead.

Go ahead, please. No, and I was just gonna say, one thing that I have, you know, in past, or maybe I didn't do so well while I was learning the customer interaction side of things, even before HVAC, even as young as like my first, you know, fast food job when I was a teenager, you know, if you see something or a method that works for somebody else and the way that they approach others, that doesn't mean it's going to work for you. Now glean what you can and definitely experiment, but understand that you being a carbon copy of somebody else is never going to work and it's never going to come off as authentic. And if you're trying to advise somebody on the system that's keeping their home warm and it's literally, you know, like in the case of a cracked heat exchanger or gas leak, May literally be dangerous. If you want to not have them question whether you have their best interests at heart, the best thing you can do is just be yourself. Yeah, you drove that home like really, really well, Louise, and I really do appreciate that. Yeah. You know, I, I, my hope is that through this, this podcast, you know, people will kind of I mean, yes, reflect on and appreciate the people in their lives who are teaching them and helping them grow in the trade, but then also think about the, you know, be a little more cognizant of, of their methods and the things that they're doing. So, Louise, who— I mean, who trained you? Who mentored you? Who are the people who invested in Louise when Louise was a little girl or, or in high school or college? Or, you know, throughout your career, who are some people who, uh, who kind of helped you to become who you are?

You know, I have to say, I've been very, very fortunate that I have had a lot of people who have just really, really stepped up to the plate in my lifetime to help me. Um, and, and to pin down just a list of people, unfortunately, I probably wouldn't be be super good at providing that for you.

Okay.

Because I think I've taken, I've taken a little bit from a lot of different people. And I think that's what's so neat about, especially like when we're talking about this industry, and I was talking about like the way that somebody might explain things, right? Because not having a background in HVAC, the, you know, UEI Test Instruments, one of our specialties is that we make combustion analyzers. We've been making combustion analyzers for 40-plus years. plus years out of our larger company, Kane. I didn't understand combustion for the life of me. Like, they were like, hey, watch this video, do these things. And I felt like there were just a lot of, a lot of pieces that were floating out there around my head. And it just really, it took listening to a multitude of people explaining it out before, like, just everything clicked because everybody also has a different learning style. And I think that's also, you know, when we, when we talk about sales and training, like, your customers have different levels of understanding of things. And some people want to be— you might be at an engineer's house who wants to know every single piece of what's going on.

And you—

You have a little bit of both. You might have the— right. You have that person who wants to know everything, and you have the other person that's like, too long, didn't read, give me the highlights.

Right.

And, and you have to be able to, to, to be able to explain those things out. But I'll, I'll tell you, I've been really, really fortunate, um, whether, you know, my years of retail, that probably helped me the most, understanding a lot of the customer interactions and being able to read it. Um, so I sold, uh, I sold men's suits, was actually my first job in the, in the retail world, right? And You would have literally your customers could range from somebody that I am the president at a bank all the way down to, oh my gosh, I have a funeral and I haven't worn a suit in 30 years.

Yeah.

And being able to determine, right? But that's the same thing as having an engineer versus having the too long, didn't read. I need something that just fits me and I can get through versus I'm going to wear this, you know, once a week for the next 10 years.

Right.

And I just, you know, I think there's just, there's a learning curve in finding out what works the best for you.

Exactly. And, you know, honestly, I think the person with the, you know, who is the engineer, who you're at their house trying to help them figure out their, you know, their best you know, their needs for their system, they might actually be a little bit more challenging than the, you know, it's too long, I don't have the time to read this, just do whatever.

Right.

Because, you know, you're gonna feel tempted to try to get too technical. And to be perfectly honest, you know, you might be really good at doing a combustion analysis and presenting that to the, the customer. But if you're not honest about, you know, OK, I, maybe I don't fully understand every nuance of the test, but here's the bottom line. You can, again, back to the authenticity thing. So I think that, I think you bring up some good points that, you know, it's not just 1 or 2 people. I mean, sometimes we can think back and think of an old boss or a coach or teacher.

Sure.

But, but, you know, for the most part, it's been A variety of things, for better or worse, that have helped shape us into who we are. And none of us are perfect, but, you know, we do the best with what we have. And I think that if we go into our customers' homes and businesses with that kind of an attitude, I feel like we're going to be much more successful. You know, probably this is a made-up statistic out of thin air, But probably 99% of technicians would not describe themselves as a natural salesperson.

I would actually say you are pretty much on board with that. And even though you might be making up that statistic, I feel based on my experiences, right? And we know anecdotes are clearly all evidence, but yeah, no, I actually, you are correct though, because I do ask that. I ask that question in one of my trainings is, How many of you got into this industry because you wanted to be salespeople? And I think, I think unfortunately sales just has that, that negative connotation. But I think if you understand that you're the point of contact, that you're building the relationships, you know, it doesn't feel as bad. Because I think also, you know, when you watch a TV show or a movie or something, right, like there's always that sleazy salesperson. I can't remember if it was you or somebody I was talking about, if you remember the old TV show WKRP in Cincinnati, and I was thinking about Herb. I was thinking about Herb from there, right, with his like, you know, flashy coats and just the way that he talked to people and you just never felt like he was being himself. And that again goes back to that authenticity when we're talking to our customers.

Yeah, in fact, and this has nothing to do with the subject matter, but you just made me remember something. But, uh, when my grandfather passed away, um, I remember that my grandmother picked out a suit for him to be buried in that was just the most hideous, ugly suit I'd ever seen in my entire life. The tie, the jacket, everything was just like, dear God, like, doesn't this constitute pollution putting something that hideous in the ground? Uh, which is not— my grandfather was a very handsome man. He was not hideous. His suit was hideous. But I, I just remember thinking at his funeral, like, he looks like a flipping used car salesman. No offense to used car salesmen out there, but goodness gracious, your stereotypical high-pressure salesperson has been up for 3 days living on caffeine trying to make a sale. They're desperate. They smell awful. And, you know, they're not going to leave you alone until you buy something.

Yeah. And so, you know, I buy— you know, on a personal— this is, this is my whole thing is I'm like, why are you going to buy something new for somebody? Let's just— you know what, if they were a jeans and a t-shirt person, that's what I think you should put them in. But yeah, that's Louise's own personal, personal thing that we sidetracked on.

Yeah, no, I, I think that honestly she just wanted to get rid of that suit.

Oh well, you know, You know, sometimes there is that. I mean, we all had that piece of inventory, right?

It's like, why did I buy this? This is horrible. Like, what is wrong with me, right? Even having this.

Yeah, but you know, sometimes you just don't have the decisions. But I think, I think again it goes back though, there, there was something, um, probably the person selling it wasn't trying to make a long-term relationship because unfortunately the person that it was going on wasn't going to be a repeat customer. So they're like, there we go, you got it, you're good. Um, but right, this whole industry though is all about, again, creating relationships. I mean, so we, we established this is episode 5 for you now.

Yes.

And we've talked about how many people have, you know, either outreached or you've been able to outreach, and then from that you get more and more and It's literally what contractors and techs are doing, right? It's that, that word of mouth.

Absolutely. And, you know, I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say, and, you know, some of the, uh, some of the— I mean, pre this podcast even becoming an idea, um, some of the people I've gotten to know through networking through the HVAC, uh, the HVHX Coalition who is a huge supporter of this show. You know, some of these people are just, I mean, these are friendships I'm gonna carry the rest of my life. I know it.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, while we're talking about colleagues and friends, it also, that's, you know, that's kind of what we're shooting for with when we're looking for our, you know, when we're looking for the kind of relationships we're gonna establish with our customers. They don't want somebody in their home who they don't trust. If you're there every year taking care of their home or a portion of their home, they're going to eventually trust you. And you know, even if you're sending a new tech and and they get you know one of three or four different faces every you know twice a year, you know there's still that's still a relationship with your company. Uh, that, that is irreplaceable. You become almost like a family member. I, I've gotten, you know, up from a basement and, and, you know, it's getting midday and husband and wife are sitting at the dining room table with, you know, they've got their, their lunch all out and there's a 3rd plate sitting there just like, hey Mike, are you hungry? Because we just figured you, you know, you might want to join us since it's lunchtime anyways. Well, who's going to say no to that?

Right.

That's, that's the kind of, you know, relationship. And that's what tells you that, you know, you're not just a service provider or a contractor, but you belong to these people. You're one of their tribe. And I think that's what we're going for.

And I think there's, there's that trusted source with things, right? Like I was talking, uh, earlier about how many different facets of this industry there are. And there are people that specialize in those different facets. What's interesting though is that you may not know every single thing about every single thing because that is a really impressive thing to be able to do, right? Because again, there's so many, there's the situations that have variables in them. But even if you don't know everything, I think creating those real relationships allow you to be able to reach out to those people who have more expertise. And exactly that, that is something that I, I always tell, um, is that, you know what, you may not— because again, being in a, in a retail situation, you know, we carried, you know, 100 different brands of things, and I couldn't be the expert on all of them. You have a pretty good general idea, right? Like, in general, pants are pants, but they're not all the same pants, right? Like, like— No, no, no. there's intricate things about them.

Yeah.

And there are very different things, right? Like work pants are very different than your dress pants.

Yeah.

And so, but being able to know those. And so maybe I didn't know everything about everything, but I had people I could reach out to. And I think that's the most important. And I think being able to create, create a situation where, hey, I know I'm in a bind. And that's, you know, one of the great things, you know, when you, when you think about like the tech support that HVA Chicks Coalition has out there for you, right?

Great point.

I may not be an expert in everything, but I know who I can reach out to that's gonna be able to help me walk through it or maybe look at it in a different perspective because you may have gotten so tunneled vision on one thing that you weren't able to see that big picture. So having somebody that was able to help reel it in or be like, well, what is that? You know, sometimes I do a lot of basic classes, right? Like the basics of combustion analysis, the basics of what do the symbols on my meter mean? Because—

Right.

You might have learned it while you were in trade school or you've kind of picked up pieces on it, but you know, you get a new UEI meter and you're like, I don't really understand what this symbol is, or, What's the application? Or, oh my gosh, the equipment's changed, my meter doesn't have that, what should I be looking for to be able to do that? And that's, you know, where my expertise comes in. You want to know about a feature or function that's on a piece of, uh, our test instruments, I'm going to be able to help walk you through that. Uh, you know.

Yeah, and that's, that's huge. Especially being that this is— we're talking about a brand of instrument that, you know, we are all very familiar with. We all have in our tool bags. And, you know, we are, you know, to be able to call the actual manufacturer or to actually have a class available or an online training available. So what types of resources are available? Does UEI have a YouTube channel or online content that people can access?

So we do have a YouTube channel. Most of my trainings though that I do are going to be through like a wholesaler or some of the training organizations such as, you know, if somebody has access, we do, we have some training videos up on a Blue Vault Pro platform. We have a couple more that are going to be in the works that you'll, you'll hear about coming soon. You can also catch me at a variety of different different conferences. I was, you know, putting together my travel schedule. So if you guys are listening to this, you can come see me at the Brian Orr's HVACR School Symposium.

Yes.

I'll be doing a class about tools down there. I'll be talking about UEI test instruments. We won a dealer design award for our Cane 460. combustion analyzer. That's a year-round analyzer. So whether you're working in refrigeration or you're working in heating, I'll be giving a presentation at AHR all about that. And then I will also be available at the HVAC Excellence out in Vegas in March. I'll be giving a presentation on meters out there as well.

Great.

But I'm usually not too, too difficult to find. You know, you can always call our 800 number. They'll pass you along to me. Also, I am available on a variety of the social medias, probably most notably LinkedIn. You know, you can always hit me up and we can have a conversation going on there. You can find me on Facebook. You've been a little more—

Yeah, I was gonna say, you've been a little reactive on Facebook lately.

A little bit. It's, it's not, you know, you know, sometimes, sometimes it gets a little, little overwhelming on there. But, um, it does. You can still, you can still find me there. Uh, but you can always, you know, even if you went to the UEI, uh, and you go to our info button, they'll, they'll get you passed along to me, uh, to be able to, to set something up or have a nice little chat. People say I'm okay to have a conversation with. So usually I'm pretty friendly. I'm pretty friendly. You know, as long as I've had all my coffee and everything in the morning, I'm pretty friendly. Dang right.

Yes, this industry runs on coffee.

Right, right.

So before we wrap up, and I just, I always like to ask one final question of all of the guests here on the HVAC Mentors Podcast, and that's just what are your goals for learning? What are you, how are you developing? yourself in here in the time going forward? You know, are you taking any classes? Are you, are you reading any books? What are you doing to grow?

So there is a whole lot of a whole combination of all of those things. So one of the greatest things I will tell you, you know, by being able to go to all of the conferences that, that I'm fortunate enough to go to, is that I get to not only meet, but I get to see other people's presentations. Because even though that may not be the facet or where my test instruments specifically fit in, so I'll be creating, I'll be looking at all the, all the classes possible that I'll be taking. So down at the symposium, I'll be attending a variety of them. You know, I am, I am pretty excited. Last year I completed, completed my big one is that, you know, I know I saw your, your first podcast where you You weren't sure what I could do on my system other than, uh, maybe change out some filters. But I did actually get my EPA 608 license last year. Um, so that was a, that was a pretty big milestone for me, uh, to be able to do that. And I think it's, you know—

In all fairness though, that was why the whole comment was that, that you're in this industry in spite of the fact that Yes. You know, you're not a day-to-day service tech. And, you know—

That is true. That is true. And, and I think I even messed with you a little bit and said you're supposed to change the filters on your furnace. And I think there was a brief moment that you didn't know me well enough where you were like, oh no.

Oh no.

No, no, it's, no, it's interesting because I think there's just a variety of, of content that's out there, whether it is reading the books or watching some of the YouTubes. But you gotta vet some of those YouTubes that you watch as well, because—

Oh God, yes.

I mean, I could put out some content, but it might not be anything that is good or actually safe. I've, I've also watched some of the bad videos just to learn of what not to do in there.

There is value there.

Yeah, yeah. But you know, I think, I think the biggest thing is that I have just come to learn anytime I don't know something or I get stumped, it's again knowing who I can reach out to and say, yeah, sometimes I need you to explain this to me like I'm a 5-year-old.

Yes.

And I will tell you that, like, otherwise don't explain it to me as a 5-year-old. But when I say explain it to me as a 5-year-old, I'm like, dumb it down. Okay, now I'm in middle school. Let's, let's ramp up what you're telling me. And now I'm taking the advanced college course. Now you can tell me, right? So—

Exactly.

But everybody has to start somewhere. You know, you don't start off doing calculus. You start out with multi— or addition and subtraction, and then you work up to multiplication and division. And that's the same thing with this industry. And I think, I think the important thing, and, you know, some of the things that you've said though, is being able to create that content, whether it's, it's the very basics, because sometimes we forget the basics.

Right.

And, you know, we take it for granted, or— but those basics just keep building on themselves. So, you know, 2025 will be just another year of building on the, the basics that, that I had and being able to do that. But I think knowing those basics Also help explain when you're talking to the customer again, right? Because the customer doesn't have— they didn't go through— they don't teach you an HVAC course, right? When you're in school.

They really don't. They don't even teach you a basic homeowner's maintenance course. No.

And I can't fault people for not knowing it because you don't know what you don't know until you don't know it.

Exactly. Would you fault a goldfish for its inability to climb a tree? So, you know, the—

Exactly.

Yeah. So, you know, this, this year has a lot of positives in store. I look forward to seeing and hearing what you're getting into. Louise, thank you so much for joining us today. Hey, if you're out there and, you know, you have any questions for Louise, just feel free to Either message me and I can include her email contact information and stuff in the description. Definitely like and subscribe and be on the lookout for Louise on LinkedIn as well as any of the training expositions and the HVAC Symposium Excellence in March in Vegas and all the other good stuff. Louise, thank you again. Thank you again for being with us today, and, um, you know, we'll see you guys next time on the HVAC Mentors Podcast.

All right.

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