Industry 4.0: Strategic Mergers and Acquisitions and Investor Perspectives

Welcome to the Industry 4.0 Club's fireside chat. The club's purpose is to engage the power of diverse worldwide talent to accelerate the global evolution to Industry 4.0. We accomplish this by hosting and supporting respectful, thoughtful, and interdisciplinary open conversations and creating quality content on wide-ranging Industry 4.0 topics to expand the reach of our community. My name is Mike Ungar, and I'm the CEO of the Industry 4.0 Club. I have over 40 years of leadership experience, most of that being with Michelin in manufacturing. Today's topic is Industry 4.0 strategic mergers and acquisitions and investor perspectives. We're joined today by Nick Lopez, who's the Vice President with Fairmount Partners. Nick joined the company in 2016. Prior to joining Fairmount, he was the technology investment banker at both Sett and Lucas and Jay Stryker Capital in New York City. Nick brings 11 years— over 11 years of middle market technology companies— I'm sorry, middle market technology investment banking and M&A experience. He's worked with hundreds of emerging growth technology companies, including closing over 30 M&A transactions, actively publishing primary industry research As well as attending and interacting with major industry participants at conferences worldwide. Nick currently leads Fairmount's Industrial Technology and IoT practice. He earned his MBA with a concentration in finance and a bachelor in finance from St. Thomas Aquinas College. So welcome, Nick. Thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to join us.

Thanks, Mike. Good to be here. I'm excited for our conversation.

Yeah, and I just want to mention for our listeners on LinkedIn, If you have a question during our time here with Nick, please put it in the comment box and we'll try to give it to Nick to answer while we're talking during this conversation. So Nick, let's just get started on that and maybe talk about some of the key trends driving the emergence of Industry 4.0 and related strategic buyer and investment interest in this space. What are some of the secular trends you're seeing and maybe the key technology catalysts?

Yeah, so look, there are a lot of reasons that we're excited about Industry 4.0 and the opportunity it represents for society, businesses, entrepreneurs, and investors and the like. And I personally really like this stuff, Mike, so if I go on a bit too much, just, you know, just jump in. But I'll start with, you know, what we identify as the big secular trends. So the the overarching themes and long-term growth drivers. First will be a familiar topic, I think, to most folks, digitalization and related explosion in industrial data. Still in its relatively early stages, but widely accepted that digitally transforming is a must to remain competitive. And it's driving an Exponential growth in data. So one statistic that your audience may find interesting is that in the manufacturing industry, by 2030, the volume of data produced is projected to double to 4.4 billion zettabytes. So to put that in context, that's 1 trillion gigabytes, or the equivalent of all data carried on mobile networks today currently, which is, as you know, primarily consumer applications.

Maybe I can— Nick, let me jump in and ask you a question. When you talk about the volume of data doubling by 2030, it's, it's really about data stored, isn't it? Not just data itself, because we have the data today, it's just that we don't capture it. Is that another way to say it?

It's, um, it's the data itself. It's, you know, another part of that stat is actually— and that's, that's from ABI Research, which is a good market research firm. Another part of that stat is only 5% of that data is being utilized effectively.

Okay.

So, so there's a, there's a mixture of, you know, I think big theme, everything over time that can be digitized will be, will be connected, intelligent, smart, etc. That's going to create more data over time. But then to your point, Mike, is there's, there's so much of it, you know, what do you do with it? How do you analyze it? Et cetera. So that's the other half of the challenge and opportunity.

So with this, it's interesting because when I think about that, what you described about data, I see today an awful lot of small and mid-sized companies that just aren't moving in this area. So I'm assuming you're talking about large companies, or are you talking about really all manufacturers?

So I think the large companies have been probably the ones to lead at, call it scale. And what we've seen, and so, you know, just to give your viewers context, I work from the standpoint of working with software and software-driven companies that are serving manufacturers and industrial companies. And so we've also seen more over the past couple years particularly, for companies focused on small and mid-sized manufacturers, because it's all connected. You know, I think the big theme here is, you know, you have a large OEM, just as an example, 80, up to 80% of what they're producing is gonna be produced by external suppliers, right? So everybody in that value chain, the ultimate, you know, prize at the end is to digitize, automate, have visibility across that entire supply chain, right? Yes, that, you know, that's going to occur and that, you know, that is occurring.

So, um, you mentioned things moving fast and we talked about— you mentioned the data doubling, um, by 2030, the volume of data doubling by 2030. In the— what's really happened or what's kind of changed in the last year that you can point to?

Yeah, so Let me start with, you know, we're at this point in really a nonlinear phase of technology advancement. So AI, GPUs, but also, you know, things like sensors, simulation tools, and even connectivity technologies like antennas. And all of these technologies are advancing, converging faster than ever, creating new opportunities, competitive pressures across sectors. You know, one interesting point, Mike, is that many of the— what may have been considered in the past enabling technologies that sat at the back of design manufacturing cycles, like embedded software or intended design as an example, are now becoming strategic priorities because they're not only transformative in terms of time to market, but in the device that's being produced itself. But big picture, the companies that we're working with are providing technology that's changing the manufacturing cycle to make it more efficient, reduce errors, and tie together supply chains. And I can highlight a few areas that, you know, maybe specifically have been hot over the past year or so. And I would note there's many we could talk about. But I'll say number one, call it development tools and simulation technologies to shorten, de-risk, and optimize product design. So in the merger acquisition world, the number of the transactions that occurred, you know, '24 fall under this category of premium transactions, I should say. And we saw that firsthand last year with the business we worked with CoreAVI that we advised on a successful sale. And that's a business that provides embedded software for GPUs, AI applications. And if you're familiar with NVIDIA and their CUDA software development stack, CoreAVI was, you know, called a market alternative to CUDA in the edge embedded world with a much more open approach, meaning you could use different tools, not just the video. So that, that whole theme of moving towards software-enabled approaches that remove complexity, shorten time to market, de-risk development design, we think will be a major driver going forward on the investment side. Maybe 2 more I'll quickly highlight for you. One is big data and AI, right? That's I think one that with the rise of GPUs and everything surrounding that has supported the emergence of things like large language models and just renewed enthusiasm for AI-based applications generally, and an investment cycle right now, and I can give you some stats as we go through this conversation, that is very much an aggressive investment cycle, let's call it that. And where we see the future is the world's going to continue to go mobile, heterogeneous, self-adjusting, moving more and more towards autonomy, right? So AI is going to be at the center of that.

Yeah.

And then the last, you know, big area I would say is interoperability and the concept of a digital thread. So not the Digital threat, I'm sure, is a concept that we've— I'm sure Mike have been at least talking about since Industry 4.0 was introduced in 2011.

Right.

But what we've seen with our clients over the past couple years and companies we're working with is the ability to integrate data and decision-making in real time across the full product lifecycle. There are more and more companies attacking that from different angles, whether it's quality management, simulation, supply chain, etc. And, you know, it all goes back to really my prior point of OEMs, large manufacturers tying together their value chains, and then even smaller and medium-sized manufacturers wanting visibility, wanting control of their value chains, and wanting to make, you know, the human part of it easier more automated, you know. Yeah, better.

No, that makes a lot of sense. That's, uh, those are some pretty significant, um, if you will, elements that you just described there. Um, so given those changes, how, how has the interest evolved for, um, investors? I mean, though, are they moving their efforts now to invest in those things? I mean, this is a pretty dynamic market, so I'm sure what was interesting to invest in a couple years ago isn't the same thing that was like last year and this year. I mean, what, what's happening there?

Yeah, so, um, you know, maybe to, to go back to, um, there's a, there's a lot of interest in this space both from a strategic buyer perspective and investor perspective. And I think, Mike, that's because of those secular trends. So, you know, digitalization is one of them. You have to think about other ones, demographic changes, reshoring or reindustrialization, which is a big topic right now, energy transition, regulations. Those are all big long-term trends that drive the need for technology. And then on the surrounding those, you know, secular trends, there's been advancements in underlying technologies. AI is one, but data tools, sensors, IoT, autonomy, et cetera, that's moving at a very rapid pace. So think about the interest in this space. I think on the strategic buyer side, there's a broad universe of companies that are active acquirers. They all recognize these trends and they look at M&A and investment as a way to fill technology stacks, enter new markets, add new customers. As it relates to financial investors, there's, I would say, even broader interest in the sector today than even a couple years ago. You know, you have investors that have been leaders in industrial tech for a while, like say Battery Ventures or Graham Partners or LLL Partners who are here in Philadelphia. But I'd say even more recently, more and more investors are becoming aware of Industry 4.0. So you're getting generalist firms that that are also highly interested in the space. And, you know, the enthusiasm is reflected in the data as well, just in terms of the number of transactions, the valuations that companies are trading at, and really just the explosion in venture investment in AI, which isn't all industrial or oil-related, but certainly, you know, I think a close cousin to a lot of the things we're talking about.

Yeah, that's a, that's a It's— you're right, as this becomes more and more mainstream, it's an obvious place for people to begin to understand that's where a lot of future lies. I've got a question I want to share with you from Rick in our audience. Rick's the CEO of Delta Bravo. And his question is, what are common exit strategies for companies that are building software in this space?

Yeah, meaning, you know, preparing for, you know, call it an eventual sale or majority exit of the business. You know, I would think about maybe 4 or 5 key things, right? So, and this applies not just for industrial 4.0 companies, but really broadly, but we can drill into the particular relevance here. So one would be start thinking about your strategy early. So ideally at least 18, maybe 24 months in advance. of a potential transaction. That would be number one. Number 2, I would say set your transaction goals and objectives. So, A, you know, what type of transaction do you want to— are you looking for an earlier stage financing with the venture capital group? B, are you looking for a later stage or majority equity transaction with a later stage investor, private equity? Or are you looking for a full sale with the strategic partner? I would also say think about what are your liquidity valuation goals, and then what's just the optimal timing to execute a transaction for your stakeholders. So that would be, you know, number 2. 3, I'd say from there, I think it's important to get outside perspective on your key strategic questions. So once you have your goals, the question becomes, where's your company relative to achieving your goals? What are the current gaps and challenges, and how can you proactively address them ahead of the transaction? Who are the potential partners, meaning buyers of your business? So one thing we always recommend to emerging growth companies that might be 18 to 24 months out from a transaction is Think about who the top 10, 12, 15 potential partners are. See if you could build a commercial relationship with them so there's some familiarity, and oftentimes that leads to M&A later on. We've actually seen that time and time again. 4th big area I would say is put business plans in place that align with your transaction goals, and there's a number of elements to this, but At a high level, the key for an emerging growth tech company across all stages is to build a plan that demonstrates a unique positioning, moat, momentum, and pressure-tested financial models that can show over time you can get to $50, $100 million plus of, you know, recurring revenue. And the last thing I'll say is establish your advisory team, which, you know, as an investment banker, that might be Sound a bit biased, but, you know, there's, there's legal, there's tax, um, there's wealth management. There's a number of different professionals that you can engage with, you know, well before a transaction. And a lot of them will give free advice, you know, just to have an hour or so conversation. But a lot of the work they can do to be most beneficial to, uh, sellers is often, you know, before a transaction.

Well, hopefully that, that's helpful for Rick. We really appreciate the question. Thank you, Nick, for addressing that. So maybe we can turn our attention now to the state of the capital, M&A, and financing markets. So what's the current state of public markets, and how about M&A and financing markets as well?

Well, that's a good question, Mike. It's been changing by the hour lately.

I bet.

So I'll say, so coming into this year and even about a month ago, I would've said, you know, public markets are strong, M&A and financing markets were neutral but improving, and overall optimism for, you know, stronger dealmaking in 2025. At this very moment, there is a lot of uncertainty. and volatility with everything that's going on with tariffs, potential trade war, you know, some of the recent data on consumer sentiment, etc. So, you know, your downside case is there's a ripple effect where consumer spending slows here in the US, and that's 2/3 of our economy. Corporate spending freezes up a bit, profits take a hit, and we enter a slower growth or even a recessionary period. And then generally the quote unquote animal spirit of the investment community is negatively impacted and we move into a more risk-off environment where it's harder to get capital, capital availability is just lower for technology businesses. The more optimistic view would be we get through this, you know, still bumpy, but we get through this uncertain period. Maybe there's some impact that that offsets tariffs from lower taxes, deregulation, et cetera, and we come out, you know, net positive on the other side. I think in either case, it's any business, and I don't think this applies true just to technology, but it's more important now than ever to plan, prepare, pressure test your business model, and manage it appropriately. And I'll give you 2 specific examples, Mike. So, you know, one, if you're an emerging growth tech business, you know, you may be running slight burn or just call it breakeven at the bottom line now.

Hmm.

You know, what happens if you underperform revenue by 10 or 20% this year? So doing some downside planning, and as part of that, if we're in a tough environment for a while, capital availability becomes less. You know, that's, that's an important aspect. Um, on the other hand, there could be opportunities. So as you know, there's a lot of businesses evaluating their supply chains right now, um, with, I'd say, a general shift of diversifying away from, from China, you know, where, where it's possible. And so if you're a business that's selling a product that's not exposed to China perhaps that's an opportunity for you to try to talk to customers that maybe weren't as open to in the past. Or if you're a technology software business and you can apply a solution to help some of these larger companies think through, or any size company think through these challenges, that could be an opportunity for you as well. So I think in our experience, the companies that are well-positioned plan ahead, they're going to succeed. That, you know, that applies in any environment. Um, and investors and buyers, they tend to reach up for, for higher quality assets in uncertain environments. So, you know, it's critical as a business owner to position your company accordingly.

That makes a lot of sense. That's, um, so it leads me on. You mentioned, we mentioned a dynamic market. Um, it may be too early to answer this question, right? But, uh, I have to bring the T-word in— tariffs, right? I have to ask the questions since we're in this time. Have you, have you started— are you starting to see some effect, uh, in, in the market there and what you do? Or, or is it too early to see that yet really, uh, ripple through the, through the industry?

Yes and no. So yes, in the fact of everything I had just mentioned, just the broader volatility and uncertainty. And anytime there's volatility in the financial world that goes on for too long of a period, you know, you're at risk for a lot of the things I mentioned in terms of recession, slower growth, lower capital availability, investors buying just, or just becoming more risk-averse. You know, I think if we look at some of our specific clients, it depends on the situation. You know, we have clients all over the world, so we have companies that might be based in the US, for example, that manufacture IoT sensors in China. And needless to say that, you know, this situation has hit them significantly. We have other companies that are based in Europe And they actually don't do as much business in the US. And so tariffs aren't impacting them as much. And then we have, you know, obviously software-driven businesses where tariffs haven't been as big of a factor yet, except for the fact that if you're selling into a large enterprise and they're starting to pause decisions or you don't have certainty into when they're going to make a decision, that's the biggest risk. You know, I think in short, Mike, the challenges we've had thus far are obviously exposure to supply chains. And I would say for companies, you know, the best thing we would advise our companies on is adapt quickly and aggressively. And if you do that, you can usually get through this type of period with a good outcome on the other side. Um, but, you know, there's certainly— there's no crystal ball because, you know, it's a fluid— it's a fluid situation right now.

Right. Well, and I think that, you know, one of the things that, you know, if you've been in business for any period of time, you know that the markets are going to go up and down, right? And if you're not prepared for the down market, um, you know, you're taking too big of a risk, honestly, at the end of the day, right? Strong companies have You know, prepare themselves for what will be a down market so that they can continue to accomplish their purpose.

Yeah.

And it's a lesson learned, you know, for a lot of folks, I know.

Yeah. I was, you know, I was going to say, Mike, if you, you know, you tie it into the Industry 4.0 opportunity, right? I mean, let's just say, you know, I think there was already a trend of reindustrialization. you know, before the current administration, you know, let's say that accelerates here for the next couple years. For a country like the U.S., you know, you'll see more factories, but, and obviously to be competitive, harnessing technology to automate, to make up for a more limited human capital pool, to drive efficiencies, et cetera. That's, you know, that's the Industry 4.0 opportunity right there. I mean, and that's— That's part of the reason we're very excited. So you definitely can look at all the challenges, but a lot of our clients are also, like I said, looking at the opportunities and how this, I think, still can just play into the longer-term picture of Industry 4.0.

Can you elaborate a bit further? So as we look to the future, what's the outlook then? I mean, everybody's kind of living in this moment where maybe the outlook isn't so great, but if you take a bit of a longer view, things— I mean, this could just be a blip on the horizon, you know?

So I agree, and well, hopefully that'll be true sooner than later. But, you know, putting— if we put politics aside and the whole global deglobalization argument, a minute. Um, you know, the bright side is that, you know, the future's never looked brighter as to just the generative nature of technology in this country and worldwide and at large. You know, AI, robotics, clean energy, uh, space. I would— you know, I was talking to one of our founding partners, uh, yesterday about space tech and the idea of robots mining for raw materials in space in the coming decades. So, you know, there's potential that all these technologies come together in the coming years, and, you know, we believe they will, and drive massive productivity gains that drive economic growth, make people's lives better, reshape industries. And if it's all managed well, you could hypothetically be moving towards a post-scarcity environment where intelligent systems handle routine tasks, you know, we have autonomous cars driving us around, you know, etc., and society reaps the benefits of, you know, health, sustainability, quality of life, etc. And I think, you know, again, to go back to really how it specifically applies to Industry 4.0, you know, manufacturers, I think, have been operating a certain way for whatever, 30, 40 years and happy and making money. And, you know, they, they will be increasingly forced to change due to, due to demographic factors as well as, call it, this broader macro political environment. And this is what has been driving Industry 4.0. It's what will drive it. And, you know, it's why we're excited about it.

Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. You know, I think the biggest challenge that I think one of the biggest challenges I think we face today relative to that is you have these companies that provide the tools and the support for Industry 4.0, but there still are a tremendous number of small and mid-sized companies that just aren't getting on board. Helping them move forward is key in my view to— well, one, it'll continue to drive the future because if they're not on board, they won't exist and someone will take their market. But I think it's something that's really, really going to be helpful because they'll be more competitive and it will drive further innovation as well. So I think it's really been interesting to see and trying to help those younger or those smaller companies get on board with different ways because they usually can't afford to invest and explore the way a larger company can.

Yeah, and we see the same thing, Mike. So at Fairmount, we also have a group that's focused on working with industrial companies, and a lot of them are small to mid-sized. And to your point, you know, many of them are earlier in the adoption of technology. And so what I've seen in terms of working with software, software-driven companies, is, you know, providing applications that are just easy to onboard, you know, start slow, you know, whether it's— because I think one of the challenges from a technology perspective that we've seen is there's this big promise of Industry 4.0, but then once you actually go to implement it, it's a little trickier and difficult than maybe you might have initially thought, and your project fails. So I think where we've seen companies be successful is providing solutions that identify clear ROI, as easy as possible to install and get up and running. And that's where we see more, you know, more success with the smaller, medium-sized industrial companies. It represents a big market for software companies being able to service that market.

Well, that kind of leads me to my next question. So how do, how do strategic buyers and investors actually evaluate acquisitions and investments? Obviously, You mentioned one element there about, you know, how easy is their product to onboard to a company, right? How well does it transfer? What are some of the other things they might evaluate in terms of the company's financial health?

Yeah, so there's probably— there's— I'll break it into 2 sections, right? Strategic buyers, you know, I'll think about call it deal structure, and then just how each group would think about, you know, the key people and the products within an organization. So strategic buyers, they're gonna be driven by IRR, internal rate of return, you know, the overall strategic opportunity and synergy value. Synergy value is a big one. Valuations are generally based on M&A market comparables, right? So what are other companies in your industry trading for? And not just, you know, the ones at the top of the valuations, but median. And, you know, one of the things we do at Fairmount when we work with companies is look at, you know, if you look at valuations across the different quartiles of the full spectrum of everything that's traded, there's a pretty drastic difference in valuation. So in the report we put together, you know, at the start of this year, Mike, the median revenue multiple for an M&A transaction for industrial software and IoT companies, 4.7x. The companies in the top quartile are 10x plus.

Wow.

So there can be a very, you know, substantial difference. But, you know, but back to, you know, specifically in terms of how strategic buyers look at acquisitions, you know, so it's gonna be M&A comparables-based. but then factors that are specific to that individual company. So synergies, market and public optics. Sometimes a large public company can buy a very strategic asset that, you know, moves their stock price in a positive direction just based on the news.

Mm-hmm.

Scarcity value, that's a huge one. Having a strategic partner view you as, as a must-have, you know, they don't want any of your— their competitors to own you, et cetera. You know, those are the type of things that drive valuation. Um, on the financial side, so financial investors are naturally more financial-driven, and they are aware of all these M&A comparables.

Mm-hmm.

But they're really going to value a business based on, um, what's known as a multiple on invested capital or MOIC and IRR. So they're gonna look at, you know, in 3 to 5 years, if we put a certain investment into your business, can we get a targeted return that our fund, you know, targets over time? And, you know, typical 5-year MOIC, depending on the size or stage of the business, it can be anywhere from, you know, 4 to 10x plus.

Wow.

You know, 10x is gonna be more venture, 3, 4x is gonna be more later-stage private equity. And in this case, the value of developing a pressure-tested 5-year financial model that's credible, that an investor can take and build into their models, and they'll probably still discount it anyway, but that's kind of a good starting point for how— they might value an acquisition, you know, relative to a strategic buyer.

Wow. That's, uh, there's a lot there. That's really interesting. Um, I can imagine the— and then of course, usually buyers aren't just looking at one. People in the market aren't looking at just one company. They're just looking at, you know, several.

They are.

And they're racking and stacking, I guess, with the criteria you just described, huh?

They are. And, um, You know, so if you think about how do you make your business look, you know, attractive in the eyes of a, you know, a financial partner or strategic investor, you know, there's things you can't really control. Obviously, you can't necessarily control market conditions. You can't necessarily control external valuation metrics, meaning what companies trade at in your industry. But you can study them and understand what drives value and what the characteristics are of the companies that are at the top end of that valuation spectrum. But the things you can control to an extent at least are company-specific factors. So financial, you know, things that drive valuation, they're gonna be size, scale, revenue mix, growth, profitability. Qualitative factors. So your IP technology assets, your positioning in a major market, synergies with the buyer. And so in summary, from a financial perspective, if you're a technology or software-driven company, you want to have what's known as quote-unquote Rule of 40 characteristics, right? I'm sure you may have heard that term once or twice.

And maybe you can explain that just briefly because I don't know that everybody knows that.

Yeah, so Rule of 40, it's, it's a pretty widely accepted term now for SaaS software companies.

Yeah.

And quite simply, the actual literal definition is the sum of your sustainable growth rate plus EBITDA margin. If it's greater than 40%, you're a Rule of 40 company. And generally, yeah, and generally Rule of 40 businesses trade at premiums relative You know, to call it median valuations. For companies that are more in, call it, this emerging growth part of the market, you want to be, call it, $10 million plus ARR revenue with that Rule of 40 profile. If you're a little smaller than that, usually investors would like to see more, even more growth. So 50%, 60% until you cross that threshold. So, wow, there's— it's a little bit more than just a financial calculation. Um, and then on the qualitative side, you know, we actually at Fairmount, we have a framework that we call P5M. Um, and, and in short, you want to score highly across your management team, your financial model, your technology, your customer base.

Yeah.

Um, SaaS metrics is another big area we could talk for, for an hour But those are areas. And then the other thing, Mike, I think is important to point out is, call it— we say perfect preparation and process. So preparing for a process and then executing it in a way that drives competition.

Well, that's interesting. No, I appreciate— there's an awful lot you've shared with us today about mergers and acquisitions in the Industry 4.0 market. And it's really compelling. And I know for those folks listening, hopefully you've taken some things away that will help you reflect on your own companies. And perhaps you might even want to reach out to Nick to learn more. Nick, as we get ready to wrap up, do you have any final thoughts for our audience today?

So, you know, first, thank you, Mike, you know, for the opportunity to join you today. I really enjoyed our interaction here. You know, look, to summarize, our view is that Industry 4.0 is driving a transformation in industrial end markets to address both current deficiencies as well as, you know, broader societal challenges. And at Fairmount, we're very enthusiastic about supporting emerging growth technology companies generally, and for my group, you know, specifically, we're very excited about the long-term trajectory of Industry 4.0. So, you know, Mike, if I could be helpful to you or anybody, happy to, even if it's just to provide, you know, some perspective or answer some questions, because as you may have been able to tell, I certainly enjoy talking about this stuff.

Well, and I appreciate, you know, Nick, maybe I'll just mention, or maybe I'll mention that Fairmount put out a really great report earlier this year on the state of the market. Can you talk about that just for a sec before we wrap up?

Sure thing. It's quite, I think, a comprehensive report that covers Industry 4.0 and IoT from a perspective of general market trends, M&A market trends, public valuations, as well as some of the secular trends and technology catalysts that we discussed here during this conversation. So happy to share that and you know, if folks are interested, would encourage them because there's, there's quite a bit of depth there. And that's something we'll publish, you know, periodically going forward. So, um, you know, if you're interested in that kind of thing, I, I think it could be interesting to folks.

Yeah, thanks, Nick. Well, again, thank you so much for taking time to join us out of your busy schedule. And, um, it's been quite interesting to, to learn a little bit more about this, uh, this, this mergers and acquisitions market in Industry 4.0. So as we begin to wrap up, I just want to remind folks that the Industry 4.0 Club would like to encourage you to take action to advance the deployment of Industry 4.0. You can do that by reading an article, attending a workshop, developing a smart manufacturing roadmap for your plant or your company, or even challenging your organization just to move forward in the deployment of Industry 4.0. The club would like to know what you're doing, so please drop us a note on our website. Or at our LinkedIn, our LinkedIn page, and tell us what you're doing. In addition, we host conversations like this weekly, and we'd love to have a variety of guests on. So if you're interested in participating in one of these conversations, again, reach out on our webpage or our LinkedIn profile and let us know. So on behalf of the club, again, Nick, thank you, and we wish everybody a great—

Thank you.

Rest of the day and rest of the week.

Thank you.