People Before Platforms: What it Takes to Lead Successful Technology Change

Welcome to the Industry 4.0 Club's fireside chat. The club's purpose is to engage the power of diverse worldwide talent to accelerate the global evolution to Industry 4.0. We accomplish this by hosting and supporting respectful, thoughtful, and interdisciplinary open conversations and creating quality content on wide-ranging Industry 4.0 topics to expand the reach of our community. My name is Mike Ungar, and I'm the CEO of the Industry 4.0 Club. I have over 40 years of management and leadership experience, most of that in manufacturing at Michelin. I'm joined today by my co-host Mike Yost. Mike is chairman of the club. Mike, would you mind introducing yourself further, please?

Not at all. Thanks, Mike. Welcome everybody, and welcome Katie. As Mike said, my name is Mike Yost. I'm the volunteer chairman of the organization, one of its co-founders, and Mike's co-host here on our fireside chats. I have almost 40 years of experience myself in industry, about half of it on the industrial solution provider side, and the last almost 20 or so on the industrial nonprofit side. So we're really excited that you're here with us today. We're also excited that we have the pleasure to speak with Katie Henry, who is the Vice President of HS&E and Change Management at Dormakaba. Katie's going to be speaking at the MX.O Midwest event in Cleveland, Ohio at the end of September, September 30th and October 1st, and she's going to be talking about People Before Platforms, what it takes to lead successful technological change.

So speaking about the MXO Midwest event just a little bit, we, we look at that as the go-to gathering for manufacturers in the region to connect, collaborate, and learn from real-world examples of successful digital transformation and workforce solutions shared by those who are making it happen today, like Katie. Beginning in 2024, the event has empowered local manufacturers to advance their careers and businesses through valuable knowledge sharing and exchange and impactful networking opportunities.

And, uh, it's in my backyard in Cleveland, Ohio, so I expect, uh, everybody to come and have a, have a good time here. Um, so just a little bit more depth about Katie. Um, she's a global executive leader, uh, leading quality, health and safety, and enterprise change for one of the world's leading access solutions companies. Over the past decade, Katie has built global governance frameworks, transformed enterprise operating models, and helped organizations turn complex strategies into measurable operational results. Katie's passionate about building systems that don't just improve performance, but also make organizations work better together. So if you are joining us today on LinkedIn, welcome. And if you have questions for Katie during the time together here, please go ahead and put them in the comments box, and we'll do our best to get to them through the course of the conversation. So welcome, Katie.

Hello, Mike and Mike. Happy to be here.

Excellent.

Yeah, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule. So let's just jump right in for a moment and just get into this topic. So a lot of organizations invest heavily in digital, new digital platforms, automation, and AI, but they don't— and they expect business results to materialize, but they often don't realize that. what their expectations are. From your experience, so let's talk for a moment about what are the biggest people-related barriers that prevent technology initiatives from succeeding, and how can leaders address them before implementation even begins?

Yep, I think it's a great question, and you are exactly right, Mike. Many times we see that platforms don't perform the way we had hoped, and I think we have to remember that people are naturally creatures of habit. So anytime that you're changing something, and especially a digital tool that they're using every day in their work, or maybe there's one that you want to introduce, leaders need to start with the people and they need to include them in the project. I think that that is so critical to the success of the launch. And when I say them, the people I'm referring to is not IT, it's not the project manager, It's really the users and getting that real feedback and input from them, not getting defensive when they have ideas and opinions, but really listen to what they're saying and think about how you can address those feedbacks and concerns.

It's interesting that you talk about that, the folks from the floor. Talk for a second on the challenge You have the folks who are actually doing the work who need to be included. But what about their supervisors? How does that blend? Because there's 2 different perspectives there, at least from my experience.

Absolutely agree. I think the important thing is understanding from the supervisors, hey, who are your people that are good at leading change and that we need to really sell this to in order for it to be successful? And every supervisor knows that they have some leaders out there that maybe not by title, but that everyone follows. And those are really the people that you need on your side, and you need their input, because if they don't buy in, it's not going anywhere.

I had a conversation last week, I believe, with a group of sort of tech leaders, sort of a younger crew of engineers that are responsible for deploying some technology and stuff. And one of the comments that was made was really interesting, and I wonder if you could comment on it. He came back and said, we get excited about this, we get excited about change, and we think everybody wants to change, but a lot of people just want to be left alone. And so as a young engineer, the question was, how do I deal with that? So any advice for a young engineer that's trying to engage with people, get them excited, and They just want to be left alone.

Yeah, I think people want to be left alone, but at the same time, people do want to improve. Right. And I think that this sort of idea or selling of work smarter, not harder, you've got to always go back to the kind of what's in it for me and what's in it for them. And the minute you can find that with people, then you're going to make some progress. But also, I think we have to remember that with so many different generations in the workforce, The time that it takes for that change and that adoption and finally getting on board could be different, right? So, I think younger generations, they are, they don't mind changing right away like that, like that, like that. But take the time to get people on board and move with them.

That's great insight. And speaking of the different generations and such, Certainly over the course of my career, terms like automation and nowadays AI and transformation and stuff oftentimes ring in people's ears that, hey, it's either changing expectations for what I do or it's going to replace me. I'm going to lose jobs. And what's your advice to leaders as far as how they can build trust and get that buy-in? So that the technologies see these changes, this technology as something that supports them rather than something that's happening to them?

Yeah, funny enough, I think it would somewhat be the same answer from the first one. You have to involve them from the beginning, right? You really have to bring the people along and make sure that they see how this benefits them. I think many times I suspect that the fear more comes from unknowing, right? And they, you know, this AI and technology, depending on which generation we're talking about, they didn't grow up with it. And so this fear of the unknown and how can this digital world really help them and make their jobs easier is really important. You can, I think, get them on board Much easier that way. Now, you know, I also recognize that when we start to say, well, involve them, involve them, you can get to a bit of a too many cooks in the kitchen scenario when you're trying to develop something as well. So, you know, you really need the right people in the room that, that can influence the rest of the workforce and the ones that really are already your leaders on the floor. without the title. And I can guarantee you every supervisor and leader in the plant knows who those people are.

Yeah, well, it's interesting too. You talk about the fear of the unknown, right? There's a lot of unknowns around technology nowadays, right? So how about the— I guess it's important, or, you know, for the leaders to at least, if not have a level of confidence in what they're doing, at least a level of confidence in the people people that, you know, if we need to pivot or learn or whatever, we can do that. So how does a leader convey confidence in a future state knowing that there's so much uncertainty?

Yeah, I think it's creating leaders that are confident in not knowing everything. And this is different, right? It's a different way of leading than I think we're used to from the past. And it's being okay to say, I'm going to show up today and I don't know what is going to be waiting for me, or, you know, we're going to start this development or implement this tool with no idea what it will look like by the end of the project. And so we have to be comfortable with not knowing.

You know, some companies I've seen— I don't know if you do this at your company, but— or have the ability to, but they'll create a little bit of a lab Or a little bit of a place where people can go play with technology. Because some of it's just fear of the unknown, right? And so if you can— if quite often it helps people realize that it's not scary, it's not difficult. And in fact, when they start— when someone who doesn't normally work with technology gets a chance to play with it a little bit in a place where there's no implications, it helps them generate ideas about how it might help them. Do you do something similar to that in your experience?

We do. Yeah, so we have an entire AI community in Dormakaba, and they have set it up as such that it's totally voluntary if you want to join it or not. And once you're a member of this community, you will get messages about, hey, this is the tool we're working on now. What do you think? Try it out. What else could we do different? You know, they, they give the instruction and they just sort of pitch it out there. And anybody that then has the time, wants to do it, wants to use it, can pick it up, but those that don't, don't have to. So, they're really— I appreciate that they're not forcing it on people, but they're also leaving it open enough that those that are hungry for it and want to do more can.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, I just want to take one second, Mike, and reintroduce our guest here today. Remind everybody we're talking with Katie Henry, who's Vice President of HSE and Change Management at Dormakaba. ahead of her speaking event at the MX.O Midwest event in Cleveland in September. So if you have questions for Katie or want to contribute to the discussion, please go ahead and put them in the comments.

Yeah, so Katie, just to kind of dig in a little bit about what you do, because I think it's interesting. So you're both the health, safety, and environment leader and the change management leader, and we often don't see Those 2 disciplines tied together. So that's fascinating when you think about it. So how does safety and employee engagement and organizational change reinforce one another when manufacturers introduce new technologies? And what have you learned in this role about leading both at the same time?

Yeah, great question. So the biggest thing that I have learned is that a company's safety performance really is a direct reflection of their employee engagement. So, if you have a morale problem, it will almost always present itself as a spike in unsafe activity. We've seen it time and time again, unfortunately, at Dormakaba, and I've seen it at other companies. But on the flip side of that coin, when you have employees that are engaged and you've created this working environment that allows for innovation and the people really see themselves as an integral piece of the puzzle in your organization, you will also have better safety performance. So, you know, they will feel comfortable to proactively bring up safety risks. They're engaged in improving their workforce and the working conditions that they go to, rather than this attitude that we sort of mentioned previously of, hey, look, if it's not broke, don't fix it, and just sitting back waiting for something to happen.

Yeah. If you don't mind me asking, so this epiphany that those things go together, Did you move into the role when it was already combined? Did you— were you part of combining it? How did that happen at Dharma, at your company?

So, I think it just sort of happened organically. And one thing maybe that's important to differentiate when we talk about change management, you know, we are not talking about it in an HR sense, which I think this term is used in an HR kind of people change management, but really in a sense of when we are changing things, how do we ensure that they get into the organization and adopted? And this happens a lot in the quality and HSE world when, you know, we're making changes throughout our facility that we need to get integrated. And I think we just kind of realized, okay, this naturally fits here. And in order for us to make sustainable and marked difference, let's just put it together.

Mike and I have a mutual friend who talks about, along the same lines, what you're— I believe what you're saying, that the way safety became ingrained as part of the DNA, the culture of manufacturing years and years and years ago, it's time for digital to become ingrained in a similar pillar. So is that a lot?

Very interesting. Yeah, yeah, I fully agree. And So last week I was in Nashville speaking at the EHS Institute, and we had a panel there, and there were 4 of us that are, you know, leading in the industry. And funny enough, they— one of the speakers said something, and I sat back and said, wow, good point. 2 years ago when we were at this conference, there was all this kind of anxiety around AI and, oh my gosh, you know, some people were in the camp like, we can't use this, we don't want to, what does it mean? And now, 2 years later, everybody's Thrilled talking about, oh my gosh, and now we can do this and this and this, like all the doors that it's unlocked. And so, you know, putting them together and really accepting that this is the new norm that we live in, and in the end, if you don't take it up, you're really only doing a disservice to yourself.

Yeah, I wonder, you know, there's a history certainly over the last several decades of Companies dabbling, trying new things, right? So everything— everybody that's, you know, walked small manufacturing floors have seen, you know, robotic work cells that get pushed off to the side and then are no longer used. And so the tendency to revert back to the way things used to be before you implemented something. I'm wondering what separates organizations from those that either dabble or you know, celebrate implementing a technology versus those that achieve lasting, you know, behavioral change?

And just—

I mean, I really, I think that this is where it does go again back to the people, because this is where you need those change agents and you need to build a relationship with them because then you can go back to these people And they're gonna help you with the people that say, oh, but we've always done it this way, right? Those people can be persuaded by your change agents in the organization. And if you bring them in from inception and you make them also feel a piece of responsibility for the future success and vitality of this solution, then you'll get sustained progress. And you have to check in, not formally, but, you know, 6 weeks later, Pick up the phone and call that person and say, hey, so how's it going? Did we miss anything? How's the team taking it? You know, and then congratulate them and call them out to the people that care, right? And, and can make a difference. And I think if you keep this going and, and notice when they do it right and when they keep it sustaining, they will continue to, to improve and, and use it, right?

Sounds easy.

It is easy.

Well, you know, it's funny. It's, um, it— I think, um, when you're— it's— I think it's easy. Your point about easy, I think it's easy when you stay in touch with the floor.

That's right. Okay.

When you're sitting— when you're trying to do it from your office, it's not easy. Okay. So it's easy when you understand the people you're talking to and talking and working with. And you're listening and you understand their challenges, then you can sort of walk the walk with them. But if you're not associating, if you're not there present, it's not easy, I guess. Would you totally agree with that?

I completely agree. You are exactly right. And this is— if this is the hurdle that's sitting in front of, you know, the leaders that are out there wanting to implement things, really ask yourself, have I engaged the people enough? And the right people, right?

It sounds too, in that chain, I'm sorry, Maika, I'm just thinking of the trust factor here, right? Like you're taking the time to check in with people. You're connecting with them. And you're challenging them to change and grow and lead. And just thinking of, you know, the role that trust plays in them trusting the leaders or the change agents, like you talk about, in moving forward?

Yeah, I mean, I think anytime going into change like this, one of the most important things is really hanging the ego at the door. And I think the way you build trust is, is by kind of level-setting that, hey, I don't know everything. So you do this every day. What are we missing? You know, I mean, admit the fact that we, as leaders, really have no idea the realities that are going Yeah.

And I think a lot of that too, and I think you've hit on it without, but I'd like to be explicit about it. You can't just walk out there when you're ready to make this change and all of a sudden engage, right?

That's right.

So engagement is ongoing. It's listening for the other things that people need to be supported on. It's being present when you're needed by them so that when you need them to help you with a project, they're also ready to help you. It's a mutual thing.

That's exactly right.

I know if we're talking about this, we're talking about the sort of the hidden, what's necessary for success, but laying that foundation starts well before you start the project.

Completely agree.

Yeah. So I wanted to ask you, one of our challenges today, I think, going back to the conversation around technologies, AI and connected factories and automation, is evolving so rapidly that we've got to manage this continuous transformation really all the time. It's not like a one-time thing where I want to do something. Talk about what leadership capabilities will become most important you anticipate over the next several years, and what practical advice would you offer to executives who want to build that foundation, build that organization that embrace change instead of resisting it? How would you go about doing that?

Yeah, so 3 things come to mind from my side, Mike, and we've kind of touched on all of them, I think, even as we've been discussing. So first of all, as leaders, we have to be flexible. You really cannot expect going into a project that everything's going to go according to the first plan you make, and probably not even the second, third, or fourth plan that you make, right? And that is okay. You know, we just have to be flexible. The second thing is you have to be humble. This, this sort of old-school idea of a very hierarchical, you know, it's my way or the highway, do this, do that, I think it's outdated and it's ineffective. And I think it's only going to get further ineffective the more we continue to evolve and as time goes on. So, you know, with modern-day technology and the accessibility of digital tools by really anyone, Leaders need to accept and operate on the basis of not being the smartest person in the room. But instead, they need to find the smartest person in the room and really just step aside and let that person go to work regardless of their rank, right? And lastly, lead by example. Sounds a bit elementary again, but if you are leading digital transformation, but you're not modeling the use of a single tool or technology, and you're still driving inefficiencies through your team yourself, this is not good. It will not work. And, you know, leaders can easily get wrapped up in the pressures from their manager or their manager's managers that they really forget that the people are the most important aspect, right? So you need that trust and support.

So if I could offer something for your response to Katie, the speed with which technology is evolving, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's actually a good thing. There have been many times throughout the course of my career where I thought, you know, the focus on tech— well, I've always fought against the focus on technology. I think it is more about the people and the process and such. And then there are times when you have these big waves of advancement, especially in the era of AI nowadays, and you're like, wow, like, you just get wrapped up in like how powerful that is. And you start to focus on the tech. But I would offer that because it's— because it moves so quickly, you can't catch up, you can't keep up, you're never going to get ahead of it. And so it actually makes it simpler to pull back to these basic things that you're talking about and say, I can be a digital leader if I'm humble, if I lead by example, if I do the type of things that you're doing. Would you agree with that?

Completely agree. Yeah. And, and I, I think it really goes back to the fact because this is so accessible by everyone, there are experts at every level in an organization. And so we need to be okay with that and, and support it and create an environment in our organizations that That's great.

No, that's wonderful. Well, we've been talking for about the last 25 minutes with Katie Henry, who's the EHS and change management leader from Dormakova. Katie, as we wrap up, maybe I'll start with Mike, get a final thought, and get one from you as well to share with our audience as we wrap up today's conversation. So Mike, would you start us off, please?

Yeah, I mean, just lots of great knowledge nuggets dropped here. And so I would certainly encourage everybody to come meet Katie and attend the event, the MXO event in Cleveland at the end of September. You know, and I think the focus on change agents and actually reaching people and celebrating that and empowering them checking in with them. I think it was a really relatable, powerful message. And I personally will be at the event, and I will look forward to hearing Katie, meeting you in person, and you go more in depth in these topics.

Yes, thank you. And same, I really look forward to seeing everybody, hopefully in Cleveland. Please reach out. I think if I left you with one thought, it's It really goes back to that the future of manufacturing is not going to be won by companies that have the most technology and tools, but I think it's more the companies that create and foster this environment where people feel safe to innovate, they're confident to challenge old ways of thinking, and really excited to build what's next.

Wonderful, perfect. Well, again, Katie, thanks so much for For taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with us. So just to give everybody an opportunity, we'd love to see you at MXO Midwest to hear Katie talk further about this topic and to really join the Industry 4.0 Club as well. Here's where you go to register for the event. There's still time to do that. The event will take place on September 30th and October 1st in Cleveland, Ohio. If you haven't registered, do so now and we look forward to seeing you there. In addition, the Industry 4.0 Club, we'd like to know what you're doing to advance the deployment of Industry 4.0. We'd like to encourage you to read an article, attend a workshop, listen to more of these broadcasts that we put on with interesting folks like Katie. Let us know what you're doing. Drop us a note on our website at www.industry4oclub.com or on our LinkedIn page and share with us what you're doing to advance the deployment of Industry 4.0. We also host broadcasts like this weekly, so if you'd like to be a future guest on one of our broadcasts, reach out to us. We'd love to have you on one of our future shows. And with that, Mike, thank you. Katie, it was great to get to know you. I can't wait to hear what, you know, to hear what you have to say at in Cleveland in a little bit.

Thank you.

Excellent. Thank you, Katie.

Yeah, bye-bye.