Revitalizing Manufacturing through a Technology-enable Variable Workforce

Good morning, good afternoon. My name is Mike Ungar, and I am one of the co-founders of Industry 4.0 Club. We're here today hosting our weekly fireside chat. And Mike Yost is my co-host, and we'll be talking today with Pat Dibble. So let me just get into some introductions, and then we'll be talking to Pat. So the Industry 4.0 Club, our mission is to help advance the deployment of Industry 4.0. We do that by educating and, and providing resources to small, mid-sized, and large companies so that they can advance in their knowledge and efforts to to really become more competitive in today's environment. As I said, my name is Mike Ungar. I have spent 35 years with Michelin North America in a variety of continuous improvement, operations, finance, and HR goals— or roles, excuse me. And today I'm a business coach and executive coach. And I'd like to introduce, or ask Mike Yost, our co-host, to introduce himself if he could briefly.

Thank you, Mike. Thanks for joining us here today, Pat, and welcome everybody. Like Mike said, my name is Mike Yost. I'm one of the co-founders of the Club and co-host with Mike on these fireside chats. I've been in industry about 35 years, primarily in the industrial software side of things, and have spent about the last 15 years on the nonprofit side working with manufacturers and solution providers to understand the role and fit and value of technologies in manufacturing, and continue that work here with the Industry 4.0 Club. So glad to have you here today.

Thanks, Mike. And just for those listening in on LinkedIn Live, if you have a question for us and you'd like to ask Pat that question, please put it into the comment box and we'll try to get it to Pat during our conversation today. So Pat Dippel's career spans nearly 20 years in manufacturing, supply chain, and operational roles in public Fortune 50 and private mid-market companies. As president of the West Division of Variable, Pat's responsible for leading market teams in the company's efforts to revitalize the manufacturing sector through its on-demand labor marketplace. Prior to Variable, Pat was general manager of a precision machining company owned by a private equity group and a director of supply chain for a billion-dollar semiconductor company, multi-site manager for nation's largest PBM, and held various manufacturing leadership positions across North America for General Electric. As a career Lean practitioner and Six Sigma Black Belt, his focus has always been centered on driving operational excellence and enabling growth. So Pat, welcome. We're glad you could join us today.

Great, thanks for having us, or having me.

Yeah, we're glad that you're here. So just to kind of get us to learn a little bit more about yourself, you started your career with General Electric, and you As I mentioned earlier, they have such a strong manufacturing reputation. What have you taken from your experience there that you kind of keep close as you work today with Variable?

Yeah, I mean, that was a great experience for me. I got an opportunity to really cut my teeth in manufacturing, travel all over North America, work with great teams and plants all over North America. I'd say a couple things that I really took away from my time at GE and I brought with me not only to Variable, but the different places that I've been, where one of the things that I appreciated at GE was every role was important in the factory. There weren't these, you know, there was no such thing as a fake job. You know, if you didn't do your piece, something in the plant suffered. So there was a tremendous amount of accountability and trust, within the leadership team, within the operations teams, within the people on the floor that we had to all keep each other accountable so that we could deliver for our customers, that we could drive the business forward. So that piece was really, really important. I'd say the other thing that I'd wanna look at is GE was just a very competitive company, both internally from a leadership perspective and how you were promoted throughout the organization. But also, I missed the Jack Welch days, Walsh era, but, um, you know, that mindset was still sort of embedded with the business where we strove to be number 1 or number 2 in every single market segment. So, um, I really liked how that competitive nature sort of worked itself out. You wanted to win, but you wanted to win against the best. And really the only way we could do that was deep focus on operational improvements, deep focus on operational performance, and a deep understanding of sort of the finance drivers behind your business. And, uh, that's something that has served me well throughout my career and, and something that I, uh, you know, really took away from my experience at GE. So, you know, none of those fake roles. Take everything you can out of every role and use that knowledge, uh, to apply it and really drive your business forward.

Yeah, thank you for that. Um, so competitive— I like, I like the thought of this idea being competitive. And of course not competitive for competitive sake, but competitive to be able to achieve your goals and serve, which I really appreciate. And then I appreciate your comments about trust and accountability as well. I think those are 2 really important elements that make a lot of sense really for everybody. So that's really cool. Um, I kind of want to shift then the conversation to Variable. Um, so it was— you— the company I think was established, I looked at 2017. And it says on your website anyway, the mission is to revitalize American manufacturing sector by allowing businesses to— I'm going to use the word variabilize. I think that's the word.

Correct.

Variable costs in small increments. So let's explore that mission a little bit in more depth because I think it's interesting when it uses the word revitalize. What is it that we're trying to revitalize with American manufacturing?

Yeah, and you know, you'll have to keep me honest here and keep me concise because I could talk about this for an hour on its own. But yeah, I mean, to get right to it, American manufacturing, it's a backbone of our economy. You look at, you know, $2.5 trillion in GDP, it represents, I think, 11% of US GDP and 9% of the US workforce. If you Fold in logistics, distribution, things like that, that bumps that number up to about 19% of GDP and 13% of the workforce. So it has a huge impact in our economy, the lives of every American, and that's really, really important and something that, that's not lost on us and part of why, you know, we're in this and in these spaces. As far as revitalizing it goes, I mean, the industry as a whole has gone through quite a bit over the decades. You know, like we're here on Industry 4.0, but there was Industrial Revolution 1, 2, and 3. And when you look at that and how manufacturing has changed, you know, there was a period where business and manufacturing was carved out and sort of shipped overseas or to low-cost regions. You know, that wasn't done in one fell swoop, but let's get rid of the high-volume stuff. Then, you know, as we continued to sort of do that, made it a little bit easier to sort of add a little bit more to that split. And a lot of that was driven by cost. You know, that, that those cost numbers aren't always accurate when you look at total landed costs. Sometimes those estimates could be off. upwards of 40%. You know, you fold in the delays or the supply chain issues, delays in lead time, quality issues, and the stories of sort of sending that work overseas aren't quite as compelling anymore. So knowing and understanding that, we are trying to bring that work back to the United States. We are trying to revitalize what it means to make something and to do that well and to do that in a competitive manner, because, because that's what we're up against. I mean, everybody has a dollar to make. That's why we're in business. But we're up against some of those lower costs, and we've got to be able to outperform them and show value and prove that we can do that in the United States. And that's really what we're trying to do.

And then your, your focus then is from the, um, from the labor side. Is that, is that accurate?

You're, you're, uh, Yeah, so I mean, if you look at how is a business going to be competitive in this space, you know, you really have to be able to give a customer what they want when they want it.

Right.

And then you need to be able to do that in a manner that sort of rises above these challenges. You got to figure out a way to level the playing field. And so, you know, like that journey on how any particular business does that is going to look a little bit different, but it's got a starting point and it's sort of got what we're up against and where we're trying to be. And Variable is trying to look at that total pathway. So, you know, it's almost like looking at how are we helping business innovate. And we do start with labor. We think that that is— and I'd say, I wouldn't say we think, we know that that's the right starting point. If we thought it was something else, we'd be a different type of company.

So then you're engaging with companies and talking to them about— because everybody's facing labor challenges nowadays, right? I mean, that's a big issue. So from a value proposition, when you're talking with a manufacturing company, you're offering flexibility from managing the labor pool. Is that right?

Yeah. I mean, we have a marketplace where operators are coming to and they're bringing their skills and manufacturing. And we've created this marketplace for businesses to be able to go and use this platform to access those talents and to fractionalize, or as you mentioned earlier, Mike, variabilize that work content. And when you look at that, you can really leverage that to touch not only all of your operational KPIs, but sort of the P&L of your business. Um, as well. So that, that's sort of why we're, we're starting there. We're introducing labor on an as-need basis to these businesses. So you don't have any more than you need, you don't have any less than you need. And when you can really sort of figure out how to do that and how to do that well, it's really powerful for your business.

Yeah, like the gig economy, right?

Sounds like—

I know Mike spent a lot of years on the HR side and the staffing side as well.

Yeah, it's interesting to think about that. And I will dig back in a little bit more because I, you know, in my mind, I'm used to it takes 6 weeks to train an operator. And, you know, one of the things that helps them be successful, and this is old days, okay, but maybe today as well, What helps them be successful is the fact that they do the job routinely, right? There's a rhythm to— we're always seeing them and we're able to train them and communicate with them. Well, how do you overcome some of those obstacles or some of those potential or perceived obstacles?

Yeah, that's a great question. It was actually one of the things I was up against when I was running that machining company is I didn't have access to people, nor did they have the skills that I required. And one of the hardest parts was creating that pipeline that actually gave me the opportunity with people who wanted to do that type of work so that I could teach them how to do that work or how to do that work my way. And that was pretty powerful. I mean, I could have saved 3 years of building that pipeline with vocational schools and everything else if I had a pipeline that was pointed at us. So yeah, our concept is to post opportunities for the work that you need. And because of our operator base and the skill sets that they bring with them, um, they know how to do 75 or 80% of it. So you're not starting from ground zero, you're just closing that gap on how your business does this work. Um, now as you identify those operators that do a really good job, you have— you can save them to what we call your labor pool. And over time, you're building that sort of trusted, experienced, rated operator pool that you can leverage when and only when you need through the platform. Um, like we talk about that quite a bit with some of our businesses. If, if you ask 3 supervisors who your top 10 operators are, they're probably going to give you all the same name. Um, so those are the people that we would encourage you to invest a little bit more in, maybe that higher-level training. And as you do that throughout your business, you're creating flexibility and agility sort of in all areas of your business. And that's pretty powerful when you're trying to cut lead times in half or take service from, you know, 85% to 99%. And that's that sort of tie back into the operational KPIs that make your business competitive and make your business compelling to grow with your customer base.

Yeah, that's interesting to think about that. It really does change the paradigm sometimes for traditional manufacturers and how they handle their workforce. That's pretty interesting. Can you talk about, so how does Industry 4.0 play into your business model?

Yeah, so like I mentioned earlier, we sort of view this is the starting point. And for a lot of reasons, you know, one being, you know, when you're looking at how are you competitive, how are you looking at your cost structure, there's quite a bit of low-hanging fruit right there on the labor side. You know, it's fundamentally impossible for you to optimize your labor costs with purely a fixed labor model. You're always going to have more work some weeks and then less work other weeks. And what are your alternatives? You either work overtime, which can eat into your margins, or you try to VTO people off. Maybe you ask for people who might want to lay off, or, you know, you'll pay operators even if you don't have that volume. Both of those things impact your cost or, you know, they're pushing lead times out. So not only is it low-hanging fruit, but as you build out your labor pool, as you continue to invest in that labor pool, as you're bringing them in and out of your operation as you need, it starts revealing other opportunities within your operation. So that, that whole analogy of inventory being a water level, and as you lower inventory, those rocks and those challenges start presenting yourself. We see that all the time with the labor aspect in a business as well. So once you solve the labor piece and once you have the flexibility and agility to sort of use that anywhere in your operation, now you can start— you've removed labor as a constraint, and that's when you can start solving some of the higher-level issues. And, you know, maybe a quick story might help illustrate that. When I was running a precision machining company, I, you know, we had a tremendous amount of demand. We had fixed service, we had picked the right parts for our equipment. We were growing fast, and I brought a company in that focused on OE software, and it was great. Had it on all my CNC equipment, gave me a tremendous amount of data on cycle time, tool change opportunity, all of that. And I used that information to pull some cycle time out. Paid for itself within 8 months. It was a great investment. The kicker was with unlimited sort of demand, I didn't have somebody to staff that machine on second shift or third shift or a good portion of the weekend. So while that point solution was really, really important and valuable, it paled in comparison to being able to double or triple my output for the factory. And so I had to solve that issue before I was really ready for some of those other solutions. So that's how we sort of tie in. to Industry 4.0 is solve and prep your business, make labor just in time. Once you do that, you're going to see some of those next-level opportunities, call it OE or machine tracking or augmented reality or 3D printing. All of those become a little bit more important.

Great.

I guess a couple things go through my head. Fantastic concepts and conversations. And I'm wondering, are there specific roles? Like when we talk about Industry 4.0, right? We know oftentimes the conversation's ahead of the reality, right? So are you primarily from a labor perspective helping with operator pool?

Yeah.

Or are you getting into engineering roles or leadership roles? Like, where is the focus right now that people are looking for?

Yeah, I mean, our primary focus is on sort of hourly direct labor, maybe indirect support labor, since that has a big impact on bottlenecks and making sure we're not starving or overfeeding. But yeah, that is our focus. But it's a marketplace. We've got over 1.4 million operators on our platform.

Wow.

So not only from a scale in size, but they're bringing all of that experience, they're bringing all that knowledge with them. So we hear people all over the time looking for welders. Welding is one of our 10 core skill sets. So welding, assembly, CNC, we do have a skill for engineering. And programming. But, you know, I'd say like any marketplace, you know, what we have on there today might look a little bit different tomorrow. So that's part of what we do with the businesses, help them develop a strategy for their business to give them that flexibility first, and then from there help guide them sort of on what that next challenge is.

So, I mean, 1.4 million is super impressive. I would think, unlike a Fiverr or something where you could go get somebody anywhere in the world to write ad copy for you or do something remotely, these roles are gonna have to be pretty regionally focused. Are there particular areas of the country that are more or farther ahead in populating those numbers you're talking about?

Yeah, and I mean, Acquiring the, the operators is, is not our challenge at Variable. You know, we are tapping into a subset of the population that nobody else is. So those 40% of people who don't want to, or maybe can't work 40 hours, or don't want to be forced into 70 hours of forced overtime a week, we are tapping into that, that experience base. So they're coming to us. And We are exclusively with manufacturing and distribution. So word of mouth travels and people are coming to us. A lot of them will pick up shifts on a weekend or in the evening, and it's supplemental. So accessing the operators isn't really the challenge for us. And in our teams, we've got at this point 42 major metropolitan cities that are open. We've got teams on site in over 30 of them. We are all operational people that have been frontline supervisors, run plants, run multi-site DC networks and supply chain backgrounds. And we're doing that so that we could be local and work with the businesses in their site to develop that strategy. So we have teams all over the US that are working and those operators are local as well.

Fantastic. Thank you.

Wow, that's really, that's really interesting to think about that. I still, you know, as I mentioned, I came from— I'm going to use the word— a traditional manufacturing environment. Like when I started with Michelin, I mean, we ran 4 crews, 8 hours a day, you know, 24/7. And we really tried to create teams around those crews, you know, where the cohesiveness of the team is really important. When you start bringing in variable labor, don't you end up with maybe not as strong of a team environment? Is that— how do you see that playing out with companies you're working with?

Yeah, we really haven't seen that. In fact, you know, we had released a case study just this past week with ADAC Automotive, and Jake, our champion on site, actually speaks to that exact point, how well they integrate. These aren't people who are trying manufacturing for the first time. They know what it's like to work in a shop. They know the importance of working with the person upstream and downstream for you. There is a level of accountability created because each one of these opportunities, they're getting rated by the business and sort of creating their more or less blue-collar LinkedIn on our platform that all of our businesses can see. So there's peer-reviewed experience ratings. that validate the type of work that they can do and how well they're doing. So they're coming into these opportunities wanting to contribute, wanted to show what they can do, and that's how they access different types of opportunities and sort of create and curate the schedule that works for them.

So you don't put— so when you— so it sounds like to some degree you actually, I'll call them rate or rank or your workforce as well then. In other words, you're not going to provide an opportunity for somebody who hasn't done well before with you. Is that— do I understand that correctly?

Yeah, every single opportunity is rated by the business themselves. I'm not there. I don't know what their efficiency looks like. I don't know what their attitude looks like. So having this be peer-reviewed is really, really important to the integrity of the meritocracy. Um, so you want to pick 4 and 5-star operators. You don't need to settle for, for somebody that maybe has a low reliability, uh, score. And our teams are working with the business to teach them how to use the platform and how to access that type of help. Um, you know, we're, we're not involved with sending, you know, people. Um, this is a self-serve platform.

Mm-hmm.

If we did that, we'd be just as bad as going down the hall to HR and saying, you know, Please, please, please, can I have a head? We don't want to be that extra step. Those frontline supervisors know what they need and they're held accountable to service delivery, the P&L.

Interesting.

Well, I just wanted to do a quick reset here and remind folks that are with us here that we are the Industry 4.0 Club. We are with Pat Dipple, president of the West Division of Variable. We're talking about sort of the gig economy approach to managing labor nowadays in manufacturing and the work that Pat and his team are doing. So I would encourage you, if you have any questions, please go ahead, throw them into the comments, and we will respond or we'll have Pat respond. He's the one you want to hear from. So please go ahead and do that. Pat, I want to just take a step back. To the name of the company itself, right? The— it's variable. We're talking about variability and variable costs and all that kind of stuff, but it's spelled very able, right? Is that intentional to point to the— I'm sure it's intentional. It was not an accident. Somebody's spell check didn't work. But maybe talk a little bit about the meaning behind it being very able.

Yeah, no, it is very much intentional, you know, for, for the obvious reasons of the operator side of our marketplace. These operators are very able, you know, you get to, to see on the platform how able they are, um, with their skills and experience and ratings and, um, things like that. But deeper than that, you know, when we go back to our mission in how we variabilize labor cost for a business, that, that's really, really important to us. Labor is technically a variable cost, although most businesses treat it like a fixed cost. You know, they'll plan for averages. I love when I'm working with a business and I hear about their labor budget. And, you know, sort of a backwards way of thinking, like you shouldn't have a labor budget. You should have maybe labor as a percent of sales budget, you know, but you can't control the volume coming in. You have limited control on how you You have that going out. So by nature, those costs should be variable. And that's what we're trying to help them do is fractionalize labor so that they have what they need only when they need. And then those costs become a little bit more variable. If you can ship the product before you pay for the labor, that's ideal. And when you do that and when you can scale up or down very, very quick, you have an opportunity to fund and scale your business without fronting, you know, sort of that cost. So very much intentional in our name.

Good.

Well, I appreciate that, and it aligns very well with what we're all about here at the club, right? We believe that people are the key to digital transformation and that we look to, you know, work with each other, learn from each other, because we believe that you know, that the workforce is very able, very capable. So wanted to call that out. Mike, looks like you have something to ask.

Yeah, I was just gonna, you know, as I keep thinking about the way you help companies with their labor, I can't help but reflect on some of the trends we've seen in co-employment and some of those challenges. How have you guys dealt with that? Um, with your clients with the whole co-employment question?

Yeah, I mean, our operators are 1099 independent contractors. Um, that is the allure of, of them coming to our platform because they want to be their own boss. You know, they want to be held accountable for their results and they want to be able to use that to market themselves as an individual. Um, so yeah, I mean, I guess Maybe a quick analogy would be like, you know, do you own, you know, is there a co-employment issue for the plumber that you bring in to fix the, you know, the bathrooms out on the plant floor? The answer would be no. You can still guide, you can still hold them accountable for the performance. And yeah, so we haven't had any co-employment issues and our model and sort of our tech really behind that and how we you know, match and create these, uh, is it helps protect the business as well.

Wow, that's, that's, that's really great because I think that, that used to be one of the things that we used to fear in using outside— I'll use the word outside labor— was this issue of co-employment. And so it's wonderful to think that using this idea of contractors changes that whole dynamic. It's really neat.

And I think one, one other thing to add is, you know, We're not using this platform to bring somebody in for 40 hours a week. You need 40 hours of production that can be split between 2 different people or 5 different people if they're coming from your labor pool and they know how to do the job and they do that well. It's less about who's doing the work, just that the work's getting done. And that's, you know, a paradigm shift in how people have traditionally thought about that. And, you know, When you build that to a certain size, you really never have to worry about if you have enough of that.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

So I wanna, Mike, if I could jump in for just a second.

Go ahead, Mike.

So you just talked about paradigm shift, change in thinking, and we've all been in this industry a long time. Manufacturers aren't necessarily the most willing to change the way things are done. How are you finding the receptivity from From the manufacturer's perspective, does it take, you know, the whole crossing the chasm thing? Like, are you with the forward-thinking small minority of companies that are way out ahead in their thinking, or are you seeing that this is an idea whose time has come and people are willing to jump on board?

I'd say we're forward-thinking in how we package this and how we have a dialogue with the businesses. Like, I'm not trying to, to sell you or convince you this, this works every single time. What I am trying to do in a conversation about your business is look at and, and help you see what could be for your business. Um, you know, this isn't really about brokering bodies. Our technology does that. We've got phenomenal operators and more than you would ever need. I mean, we have an average of over 9 bids for every single opportunity on the platform. There isn't a labor shortage. There's just you can't access the traditional, traditional way of thinking. So what are you going to do with the labor? And and that's where it comes back to KPIs and the financials. What do you want to look like when you grow up, and how are we going to get there? And again, that that's sort of why it's the starting point, and that that's what our focus is. Is it isn't about labor; it's about the operational problems that we're solving so that you get a little bit better, so that you're a little bit more competitive.

Well, that's really neat. When, um, think for a moment, I guess help us think through, I mean, obviously you guys think about your strategy going forward, and I know like any other company, if you're static in terms of your, your business model, you, you run some risks. So what, what do you see the future holding If you put your crystal ball on the table for, you know, 5 years from now, will the market look the same as it does to you today, or do you think it'll be different?

Well, first of all, I wish I had that crystal ball, but I don't. So I'd say it's up to operational leaders to sort of stand up and sort of take control of their business and their operations again. And that's really what we're trying to to empower. Nobody else is going to do this. We're going to have to fight for every single order. We're going to have to fight who we're up against. And that's really what we're trying to empower. Like I mentioned earlier, access and operators coming to the platform isn't a problem for us as we continue to expand throughout the US, as we continue to get deeper within the markets that we're in. That is going to continue to grow, which brings more skills to this. So I don't know what labor looks like. I do know that manufacturing in general for decades have been severely understaffed by as much as 20%. Where are those people going to come from to run the plants that we have, much less staff and run the plants when we start reshoring? And so I think we play a big part of how we tap into that 40%. how we introduce and bring more people back into manufacturing and sort of create that win-win for, for the operator, for the business, for the US economy as a whole. So, you know, I think directionally this is heading in the right direction. I'm excited about some of the more recent developments with reshoring and investment in the US, and I think that's just going to continue to snowball.

That's interesting. I guess I try to think about the future. Do you find in the workforce that you've got— obviously, as the club, we're trying to advance the deployment of technology inside our factories. Are you seeing that your workforce is able to keep up with that quite comfortably?

We are. I think not only do we have a really strong jumping-off point, But we're going to need more of that technology to figure out how to close the remaining part of that gap. So how do you take and shorten the, the learning lead time for somebody new coming into your organization? How do you capture and standardize? So you think like real work, work instructions, augmented reality, things like that. Those are very, very valuable. They're valuable now because it shortens the learning curve for a full-time employee, but What does that do with an operator who already has most of those skill sets? They're just trying to figure out how your business does it. That's really, really powerful. So a great sort of next step. We're actually working with several different companies right now and sort of testing that hypothesis. So yeah, I mean, the next generation of manufacturing wants something a little bit different. They're going to need something a little bit different. Maybe they didn't grow up in this space. So those are all problems that we're gonna have to continue to solve if we wanna continue to be successful in growing the industry.

Neat. Well, we've been talking for, gosh, 35 minutes now, and I think we've covered a lot of territory. I guess as we begin to wrap up and talk more about, as we kind of finish this conversation, Mike, do you have any final questions or thoughts for Pat that you'd like to ask or share?

Yeah, well, like you said, we could probably go on and on about this. You know, I guess the thing from my perspective, or the takeaway from my perspective, is to hear a couple of things. One, how long they've been at this, right, engaging in this conversation with people. Two, the fact that there's, you know, 1.4 million operators that are willing to work in this way. And I'm fond of the saying about people who put in years of work behind the scenes to become an overnight success, and it's interesting for me to see that these conversations are going on. You know, these conversations about that there are that many people that are willing to work in a new way and that manufacturing businesses are starting to look and figure out how they can mold that in and become a an asset for their business is very, very encouraging. So glad to hear about what you're doing and how it's going. So really no further questions beyond that perspective, Mike.

Thanks, Mike. Pat, so do you have any final thoughts for the audience that you'd like to share?

Yeah, I'd say just, I think that fits nicely with the audience and what you're trying to do, but it's easy to sort of continue the status quo. We gotta think about things differently. And, you know, if I had a call to action, it would be really look at how you're performing, how your business is performing, where your financials are. And if that's not where it needs to be, something else has to change. And so I would encourage to try to, you know, put your head together, do something about it, rally the team like we did back in our GE days, and really aggressively go at that and go on the offense to try to win. Fight for every order, grow your business. Again, that's how we grow the economy. That's how we protect the full-time employees for your business. That's how we introduce more people to manufacturing and the industry as a whole. So I'd just say rise up and start doing something.

Yeah, thank you, Pat. That makes a lot of sense. I, you know, for me, just to take away something you said at the start about your experience at GE, and I think As we've talked the last 35, 40 minutes, it rings true for me that you really bring this to your company, this idea of competitiveness, helping your clients be more competitive, really to win in their marketplace, which in turn helps you win in yours. Then this other piece that you mentioned about trust and accountability, it certainly sounds like that, one, you want to be a trusted partner, and two, there's an accountability with what you bring to the It's a company that you take very personally in terms of helping your clients succeed. So I really appreciate those insights and what you've shared today.

I appreciate that.

Yeah. So this has been really a great conversation, Pat, the last— with the last period of time talking about with Pat Dibble about Variable and the things that they're working on in the marketplace. This has been the Industry 4.0 Club Fireside Chat. If you like these sorts of conversations, The Industry 4.0 Club hosts broadcasts really weekly on Tuesdays and Wednesdays at 12:30 Eastern. The topics we like to cover are fireside chats like this one, women in manufacturing, the future of manufacturing, which focuses on a technical topic, and also people, process, and culture. We also do some live programming. We spent— we were in California at IME West last week and did some programming in terms of some live speakers. And we'll be doing that again at a couple of events during this year as well. So again, thanks, Pat, for your time. Mike, thanks for your time. And wish everybody really a great rest of the day and rest of the week.

Thanks, gentlemen.

Yep.

Thanks, Pat. Thanks, everybody.