Women Do Belong in Manufacturing

Hello, good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. Welcome to the Industry 4.0 Club. This is Women in Manufacturing Monday, where we have conversations around issues and trends that impact women in manufacturing. We also invite interesting women who have perspectives on unique perspectives on manufacturing and women. Our topic for today is belonging, and we're talking about women do belong in manufacturing. I'm Carol Mitchell-Lynn, an Industry 4.0 Club co-founder, and when I'm not supporting my fellow co-founders, I'm a content marketing specialist at Raven AI. I'd like to introduce my weekly co-host, Grace Donovan. Hi, Grace.

Good morning and good afternoon, everyone. I'm Grace Donovan, um, host here with Carol every Monday for Women in Manufacturing, and my typical 9 to 5 is I work in business development for Andonics, which is an Industry 4.0 startup based in Detroit.

Great, thanks very much, Grace. I'd like to introduce to you our special guest for today, Stephanie, Stephanie Holko. Thanks very much for taking time out of your busy day to join us.

Well, thank you for having me, Carol and Grace. This is going to be a great conversation, and belonging is one of my favorite topics, so A little introduction about me. I'm one of the directors of project development at Next Generation Manufacturing Canada, or, or NGEN for short. I have 17 years of experience leading teams and projects in the steel industry. I love connecting emerging technologies with existing manufacturing problems. I believe the future of manufacturing is adopting new ways of working. I held a Bachelor of Applied Science in Chemical Engineering from the University of Waterloo. and a Master's of Business Administration specializing in the management of innovation and new technology from McMaster University. I'm also a licensed professional engineer in the province of Ontario. Thanks for having me today, ladies.

Thanks so much, Stephanie. So you've given us an idea of your journey to manufacturing. Maybe if you could give us an idea of what led you to the NGEN Supercluster and your story about how manufacturing led you there?

Absolutely. So my journey to manufacturing began as a co-op student, actually, when I was at the University of Waterloo, and I had a co-op placement at Inco, which is now Vale, in Sudbury. And I loved how a small change, even from a co-op student, could have a big impact. And so I was hooked with manufacturing, and I wanted to find a job in heavy industry. for that reason. And so I spent 17 years on the plant floor in the steel industry. It was an incredible experience. That desire for impact played out in a big way with the projects I was part of and the people I got to work with. So this focus on impact led me to NGEN, where I get to work with companies across Canada to connect, collaborate, and innovate their manufacturing processes. NGEN is the industry-led nonprofit organization leading Canada's advanced manufacturing supercluster. One of 5 national networks supported by Canada's ambitious Innovation Superclusters initiative and recently refunded with the federal budget that was announced on Thursday. So that's quite exciting. And we're founded on the principle that digital transformation in advanced manufacturing will enrich the lives of Canadians, delivering better products and good jobs while generating economic growth essential to a better future. So you can see how my own personal beliefs align with the mission that NGEN has. And so it's really an exciting position to be in right now.

Thanks, Stephanie. Yes, and congratulations on the, the refunding. I did see that. Is that for another 5 years? Do you know?

I believe what was proposed in the budget was for the next 6 years.

Excellent. Congratulations. Um, you know, some people who might be watching, um, livestream now or later might not be familiar with the supercluster, the term supercluster. Could you please give us a short explanation?

Sure. I believe superclusters is a European term that Canada adopted, and it really is just bringing together people from all areas to work on similar problems. So a cluster would be, you could have academia, you could have government, you could have different technology providers or manufacturers or whatever the cluster is based on to come together to solve problems that alone would be very difficult to solve. And then the idea of a supercluster is that it's that, but across an entire sector. So there are subclusters within what we do. And I think the supercluster just means that it's, you know, like a turbocharged version of a cluster. But the idea is that collaboration to solve problems on— and we're doing it on a national scale.

Awesome. Thank you. That's very helpful for me coming from the US where I haven't really heard the term supercluster used all that often. But that's really, really exciting. And again, congratulations on getting refunded for 6 years. That's That's excellent news. So, um, on your LinkedIn profile, and we encourage anyone, um, who's tuning in to go, you know, see your profile and read some of the articles that you've written and posted. But last week you had a piece, or let's see, last month you had a piece that focused on women and hiring and retention in manufacturing. It was published in Manufacturing Automation Magazine, and you mentioned, you know, a number of great points, but one is there's This is time to consider doing things differently. So can you expand on that and potentially give our viewers some background on the article?

Absolutely. So I'm proud to be in the manufacturing sector, and I may have mentioned in that article that the women that I was privileged enough to work with are some of the best and brightest. And so it was absolutely my pleasure to have worked with them. And really what I mean when I say we're doing things differently is that one, technology is evolving, but also there's a labor shortage coming up. And it's not so much that there aren't enough people to fill the roles, it's, it's matching skills with the roles that are out there. And so I think we're in this position for a number of different reasons. But if we want to come out of it strong, we have to find a way to match people with the jobs that are out there. And then when I say doing things differently in that article, really I'm talking mainly about 2 different areas. One is about hiring practices and another is about retention. So when I talk about hiring, maybe the way we've always done it is not going to get us where we need to be. Because if we keep doing things the way we've always done it, we'll end up getting the same results. And expecting differently is, I've heard, the definition of insanity. So in my mind, there's— it's always good to challenge the status quo. That's just how I'm made. So, um, for hiring, it's about intention. So intentionally seeking out maybe women who are re-entering the workforce after some time off, or experience outside of manufacturing could be, could be relevant, right? So you should hire for, for, um, passion and then train for skills is what I've heard. And that's been consistent with my experience as well. So consider experience outside of manufacturing could be relevant. So, you know, sort of broadening the view of who makes a good hire is important. Considering newcomers to Canada, that maybe it's not a straight line.

Mm-hmm.

You know, you're not just hiring— those journeys all look different, right? They're not just hiring out of university or college. It's people coming from different walks of life. And I think casting a broader net in hiring practices is important. And then there's always best practices in terms of diversity and inclusion, where you can consider blind hiring practices, where you remove names and, and those types of things from, from applications to give everybody sort of a fair shot at the same job. And then having objective criteria that you can measure those potential, um, those potential employees against. So it's not really about fit because fit can mean lots of different things, but it can sometimes work against some of these journeys that we're talking about. And then another, another good practice, and there are many, these are just some examples, um, is considering revising job descriptions to have gender-neutral language. And so going back to the drawing board.

Yes.

job descriptions is helpful, right? Because you want everybody to see yourself. If you don't see yourself in the job description, or if it's written for, you know, he will do this or whatever, like, that's— and that's like table stakes, right? Like, yeah.

But I think it goes even beyond, you know, pronouns in terms of language, like language that's typically more associated with men versus more associated with women. And I do want to just kind of, you know, bring, kind of bring this background to also the topic of today's room is that women do belong in manufacturing. And I think a lot of people will say, well, of course, but then we have to look at what the reality is. And that's why we're having the discussion today is because women are very underrepresented in manufacturing.

Exactly.

So I think today we're looking at, you know, 1 to 3 women in manufacturing, or excuse me, 1 to 3 individuals are women in manufacturing. We don't necessarily know the breakdown of like, is that on the shop floor? Is that at all levels? But that's generally looking at junior-level employees. And then when we go up the ladder and kind of up the hierarchy in an organization, those numbers dwindle even further. And so we want to have this discussion because I think, as you mentioned in a different article where you were quoted, there's a leaky pipeline of retention and hiring when it comes to getting women in manufacturing. They're also really underrepresented. And as a result, there is the sense of potentially not always belonging at work. And I know you have a lot of great anecdotes around that, but I just kind of wanted to reframe, you know, why we're diving into this so much for those who are tuning in.

I think those are great points, Grace. And again, consistent with my experience. And it's— there's the ideal and then there's the practical reality. And I think Really what we're trying to do is move the needle on the practical reality, right?

Yeah. And I— so I know, you know, this is something that we certainly want to get into. But I think for, you know, for some folks who might not, you know, might not be in the manufacturing industry, who might not know what it's like to be a woman, you know, on the shop floor or be a woman in manufacturing or even someone who is in manufacturing, but, you know, perhaps is a man and they don't necessarily see that same experience. They don't share that same experience that women sometimes have. Can you share with our audience maybe some— what are some things that made you potentially feel like you didn't belong and what things really made you feel like you did belong? Because we want to, of course, highlight what made you feel welcome so that others can implement those same practices.

Well, that's a rich question there. I will say sometimes you're the only one in the room, right? And being the only is difficult. And that's— and And I'm a privileged white woman, let's be honest, right? And so there are people who are the double only or the multiple onlys in the room. Um, so that's even more difficult. And so that can— it can be lonely and it can be intimidating. And I will— I'll suggest to maybe members of the audience that, that don't really know what that would feel like to imagine walking into a room full of only women. Right, and, and you don't have that shared experience, and so you're kind of like checking yourself a little bit, and you're kind of saying, okay, should I say this? Should I not say this? Should I, um, you know, there's just that common vernacular, that common experience that doesn't exist between you and the other people in the room. And, um, so I would just, I would encourage everyone who hasn't been in that situation to consider what that would feel like, because it is, um, It is difficult, but there's also a lot of pride. And I will say that the things that made me feel welcome or belong or felt like I belonged are probably very similar in a number of different situations. So, um, my earliest roles, I remember, um, the folks, the gentlemen who were on the floor, mostly gentlemen, um, would take the time to answer my questions. They would take the time to explain things in a way that made sense to me. They would listen to my ideas. Um, like, definitely I have some very fond memories just sort of, um, having casual conversations in people's offices, and, and we'd sort of wind our way around, um, the problem at hand. But at the same time, there was this, um— it must have been an intentional uh, purpose to connect with me because they did such a great job. So I think that it's the same in a lot of different social situations, is that people want to be seen and heard and recognized for what they bring to the table and not marked for their difference. So when you, when you're in a room and somebody says, gentlemen and lady, that it seems like it's coming from a good place, but it is actually very othering, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so you don't feel like you're You're part of the group when people do something like that. And so when people say, hi folks, or, you know, ladies and gentlemen, or whatever it is, and they just make it a whole group as opposed to othering, even that little bit of language is important.

Yeah.

And I want to highlight something that you mentioned that really stuck out to me is that, you know, you had these folks that were answering your questions and really taking the time to listen. And I think it's really important, especially, you know, if you don't necessarily have like the same background or again, you're coming into something with like eyes wide open, you might have a lot of really basic questions. And the kind of maxim of, you know, there's no such thing as a stupid question, I think is really important because especially if you are like the only, as you were mentioning, like the only woman or multiple onlys and you, you know, are very almost exposed in, in an environment like that, to, to be, you know, rebuffed if, if without, you know, with a question that might be very simple or for someone else might be very obvious, I think only inhibits your own voice. And that's something that we've seen like backed up by data studies is that, you know, if for— if, if there's only one woman like in a room, you know, she's much less likely to speak up, right? And so having folks there that are able to again like give her space answer questions or make sure that, you know, these individuals who are underrepresented are heard is like even more important because in, in an environment where they are the other and the only, it's less likely that that will happen.

I agree. They say that 3 women on a corporate board is critical mass for making, you know, for shifting the conversation. Yeah, so I agree.

One thing I've also heard from other women in manufacturing who work on the floor, or managers on the floor, is the availability of washrooms for women. And, you know, they feel like there's finally commitment from the organization that they do belong when they've been acknowledged by having a proper washroom.

Oh, that's such a stickly Prickly kind of a question, but it's absolutely true. And, and it speaks to some of the comments I had prepared for later. But, um, think about, think about yourself, right? If you're a person listening to this and you think about yourself and sort of the minimum standard that you would require for yourself, if it's a, a locker and in a change room and, you know, workwear that fits and is comfortable, like, those are minimum standards for for men and, and expect that for women too. You know, we need to be able to, to wear workwear that fits. And sometimes we talk about sizing, and I see there's some great companies that are coming out that are proportioned differently, like the, uh, the workwear is proportioned differently. And that's important because you don't have sleeves sort of dragging or, or, um, pant legs dragging. That could get caught in something, and it's almost a safety issue if you don't have, you know, that kind of workwear that fits appropriately. So definitely, it's a concern. The sort of the basic requirements should be the same for everyone.

At the Industry 4.0 Club here, we often talk about labor shortages and retention in manufacturing. But looking at it from a perspective of women in manufacturing, what are— what do you see are some of the better ways to keep women who are in manufacturing, to keep them there rather than moving to maybe a different industry?

It's a great question, and I think we sort of touched on a little bit earlier, but pay them, value them, promote them, Involve them in the decision-making. Follow through on your promises. Listen to them. Hire more of us so we don't stand out. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

But you can always ask your employees. I think that's the main point of— if you take nothing else away from today, ask your employees what they need and then deliver on it. And it's important to come back with a response even if it's not something you can address today. Come back and say, Not right now. It's in the budget for next year. How can we make this work for everyone? The important point is to, once you ask for somebody's feedback, to treat that feedback with respect.

I think that's applicable across the board. And this is something for men and women and everyone in between is that being heard is really important. And especially in industries where we do have a lot of turnover, And I was just like seeing a feature on the long-haul trucking industry where they have churn rates as high as 300%. You know, listening to folks, you know, getting their feedback, you know, where they're traditionally overlooked, I think is incredibly critical when it comes to just, you know, retaining employees across and retaining talent across the board regardless of gender. But then I think you also do have to take a second look and say like, if we have a goal of, you know, parity in the workplace. What are, you know, what are some things that, you know, the women are saying in this workplace and how can we respond to that? But do you want to mention that, of course, that's important across the board for talent retention, especially when we're seeing, you know, so much turnover and, you know, what they're calling is like an employee market?

Yeah, absolutely.

Excuse me. So kind of now diving into, again, like some of the things that manufacturers can really do better. I think this is where we can discuss a lot of things that are, you know, seen and not seen. And again, really diving back into, you know, listening to your employees. What are some ways that you think manufacturers can do better when it comes to supporting work-life career balance for women who are working on the front line and, you know, hiring practices in general?

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, okay, so at a minimum, you know, ask yourself what you would expect as a standard for workwear lockers, basic building blocks, and then see if all of your employees have access to those same necessities. Because if they don't, then you have to resolve that first, right? If you want to talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, everybody should be at least the same place when they get started in terms of safety and those types of things. things. Ask your employees what they need, then deliver on it. So as an example, some employees need menstrual products. And while it may seem like that's an added expense, that's one way to view it, to have them stocked free in the washroom. It's more expensive if someone has to leave their shift because those products aren't available. It really isn't, isn't that, that much of an expense. So I'm gonna just throw that out.

Yeah.

And then, and then in terms of supporting, you know, balance, that's, it's always difficult. But Some, some roles in manufacturing can't be done remotely. They can't. And, and that's just a fact of life. Although I do have a colleague that monitored plant operations in Mexico during the pandemic from her home here in Canada, which is, which is pretty cool. So I bet you that there's probably more roles out there that could support remote work and probably do. Maybe after hours you have that connectivity, you have that expectation to do some work after hours, um, so that I would imagine that there's some technology there that could support that. Some could be done with a hybrid method. Some roles could be job sharing. And I know that's not traditionally something that manufacturing has accepted across the board. But I think that, again, it may be time to rethink that. And then whenever I would come up against a question about maternity leave or something like that, I would say it's not really does the company support women, it's about does, does the company support families? Because there's any number of ways that somebody could be off, right? There could be a sick leave, it could be about caregiving, it could be parental leave. My partner took parental leave, and I think that it should be normalized. And I think, um, there's still instances where, where men who take parental leave could be stigmatized or, or punished for that, and And I'd like to see that change. And so employees will always be taking time for something because it's our humanity, right? We have to acknowledge that. And it's better to have policies in place to support that than to treat it as an inconvenience. And so I think some reframing can make the path clearer.

Well, and I kind of— that point of reframing is also understanding like these aren't necessarily, you know, we don't want to have this You know, we don't want to have these policies be seen as like special exceptions for a specific gender because everyone can benefit. And I think that's, you know, something that you've mentioned before in some of your articles is like, you know, trying to think about it from a different perspective. If you're a man in manufacturing, you know, how can, you know, doing this to benefit— you know, I want to use the term like least of these, you know, and we're not saying that like women are of course any less, but that are often, you know, underrepresented in the industry and therefore just like are sometimes at a disadvantage. So, you know, how can policies that are going to benefit this group benefit all of us? And I think it's kind of reframing some of that mindset because oftentimes there's like, well, if I provide this to this group of people, that must mean I'm losing out on something. Like we have this idea that there's a limited pie and, you know, dividing it up, it's going to disappear instead of growing that together.

And one extra point that I'd like to make that I, I just sort of came to me now, but, um, having those policies in place before employees show up. So not, oh, now we got to figure this out. Like, if you have somebody that's coming that, that wears hijab or something like that, have a policy to say that's acceptable. These are the, um, these are the fabrics that we accept from a safety perspective. Maybe there's sparks or there's something that you— but have that policy ready to go. Have your leave policy ready to go. Don't make your employees, whoever that only in the room is, force the issue, because then it's so much easier to say it's like somebody's losing out because somebody has to compromise. When you— if you already have the policy, nobody's compromising. It's, it's how we do business.

Yeah, I think that's, you know, certainly important because then we kind of come back to know, if, you know, someone is like a Muslim and woman in like women in the workplace, again, you might be the only 2, you know, you know, people who have that identity. Um, and then again, kind of vying for your voice when you're the only one, like that's a lot of— that's an uphill battle and that's— it's really tough. And again, like I'm speaking from a place of privilege, like I haven't had to do that very often. Like usually the only, you know, identity that I'm different in is oftentimes just like being a woman. in a lot of the environments that I, that I've been in historically. So again, I want to recognize that, but it's, it's— this is where it comes in, like having folks again, like policies or even, you know, colleagues and, you know, other men that are going to help kind of be allies kind of in that space.

I was wondering, I was wondering if maybe, um, where the drive and direction Comes from, from your perspective, Stephanie. I know that sometimes management needs some help and support. Does the drive from that really come from the HR and whoever's been hired as the root for the HR policies and ideas?

That's a great question. And I think there's probably a couple of places, and I think Grace hit it, hit it where Sometimes somebody just shows up and we say, oh crap, we have to deal with this. And then other times you can have supervisors saying, um, we want, we want to hire this person, we need them to come here and be able to work safely. How can we support that person before they get there? And so sometimes you have leadership who, um, will, will change those policies ahead of time. And I think that's pretty important. So sometimes HR, but often the drive is necessity and, and leadership can And I think there's a strategic element that certainly comes into that too.

You know, if we want to be a competitive company and be attractive to the best talent, like, you have to be thinking with a broad lens, um, you know, across the board, especially if, you know, again, I think this has really been brought to the forefront, especially considering like the labor shortage or just the difficulty that, you know, finding the right talent is. you know, a lot of companies have had retaining talent is that you really do need to widen the top of the funnel. And that is going to force you to consider, you know, folks that you might not have considered before or who have not considered you as an employer before.

Yeah.

And so I think, you know, that then gets us into the discussion of, you know, how do companies go out and find those folks? I think only 30% of women actually intentionally come to manufacturing. The other 70% that are in the industry kind of fell into it by happenstance. So, you know, how do we as a society, I think as a whole, you know, make manufacturing a viable option for women and for folks who potentially have, you know, physical limitations that for an industry that's seen as requiring a lot of physical strength or labor, you know, how are they welcome? And I think, you know, that gets us into augmented technology and there's a lot of really cool things down that road. But so again, how do we find the 30% of women that want to come in, but then how do we make them feel welcome and kind of, Open, you know, put this as an option on the table for the 70% of women who don't really consider, you know, manufacturing as a career? How do we get them, you know, to the table, so to speak? Yeah, that's like a broad rhetorical question.

No, I know. And they're great jobs. They're exciting jobs. They're interesting jobs. There's new technologies all the time, and they're well-paying jobs. Like, these are jobs that everyone should have access to.

So this actually came up when I was doing some research, Stephanie, was the careers of the future dot ca website, and I really think it's an excellent tool and resource for young people to look at. And we'll we'll do I've shared that in the in the link for this event, so I hope that people can share that. However, there's a part of the the website that talked about non-engineering roles in manufacturing. And that's, you know, Grace and I both have non-engineering journeys to manufacturing. And, you know, for myself, it's marketing, and Grace is in business development. And what I like about that particular section is they give excellent examples of young people, and they've also done a good job with representing young women in areas of business development, software development, marketing, sales. So, you know, what key tips would you have for young women who are thinking about their future studies that would lead them to manufacturing someday?

Well, I'm glad to hear that feedback because that was intentional, and so I'm glad that that it's coming across in that way. And we need everybody. We need accountants, we need HR professionals, we need, you know, commerce grads, everybody, everybody. And I would say that this is the same kind of advice, and it's very short, that, that I would give anyone that was considering a change in career or what to do with their life when they grow up. I'm not 100% sure what I want to do when I grow up, but—

It's ever evolving.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, it's to, it's to reach out to people in the, in the industry and ask them their experience and then measure that with, with what you value and what you're interested in. And you're— nobody's doing this in a vacuum. And I highly encourage anyone to reach out to people that you see that are doing jobs that interest you and just see if they'll, they'll talk to you for 15 minutes. And a lot of them say yes. A lot of people like to talk about themselves. And, and you've shared, you've shared my contacts as well. Please, please connect with me. I love to talk about this stuff. And so yeah, don't think you have to make a decision without talking to people. Please reach out to people and, and they'll share their experience and then you can make a decision that's informed.

The best piece of career advice I think I ever got was, you know, just, just go for it. Like, don't be afraid to be the dark horse candidate. You know, even if you don't necessarily think you have the experience or the transferable skills, like reach out to folks and, and, you know, talk to them, get their experience, get their insights, maybe see yourself there a little bit kind of in what they're talking about and then go for it. The worst they can say is no, which is what you'd be expecting anyway. So honestly, that's how I got one of the, you know, my favorite jobs of all time. So, you know, it's— don't be afraid to be the dark horse candidate, especially if you're looking at making like a parallel jump, right? For women who want to get into the industry who maybe haven't been there before or looking at a pivot.

Now, I've heard a specific example, Grace and Stephanie, and I think maybe the universities can help in this regard, where I know someone who studied inventory accounting in an accounting course, a Bachelor of Commerce, and their comment was, I don't want to get involved in manufacturing because I hate inventory accounting. And, you know, maybe if the way it was taught, presented, there could be some help there where it would maybe seem more attractive and more interesting for young people.

Well, Stephanie, you mentioned, you know, kind of your introduction to manufacturing was through a co-op, right?

Yeah.

Is that so? Can you tell us more about what a co-op is for those who might not be familiar?

Absolutely. And so in my particular program, you had the opportunity to do 6 short co-ops. So it was 6 4-month terms and a 4-year degree took 5 years, and you were interspersed with, you know, a school term of 4 months and then a work term of 4 months. And I got to work in asphalt, and we— I worked at a place that made bumpers for cars.

Mm-hmm.

And a foam factory and all these different places. And it really wasn't until my 5th term that I found something that really sort of tweaked my interest enough to say, this is this is what I want to do. And so there's a lot of programs. And I think that in— and I'm an engineer. And so it's really important for engineering grads to have that kind of experience. So some of them have longer 16-month internships where you get one job for 16 months, which is great. Unless it's not what you want to do. And so for me, it was really nice to try all of those different things before. But even if you have a summer job, If you can, you know, if you're interested in construction and you spend the whole time just hauling bricks or whatever it is, then, then, you know, you get, you get visibility on, on what it's like to work there, even if that's not the role that you want forever. So if you can't do a co-op, even, even getting like a summer job in an area that you're interested in or you think you could be interested in, it's important.

I think I first heard about co-ops like after I'd left college. I said, dang, that sounds amazing. I would really enjoy doing that. Because experiential learning, I think, is so much, right? And, you know, I think it's just, you know, this applies to a lot of people. It's like, we want to get in, we want to, you know, use our hands and, you know, you know, solve problems that kind of present ourselves and like, and work in a dynamic environment. And, you know, there's a lot of opportunities to like test that out, like what kind of environment best suits me without necessarily investing a lot of years per se. Or just the time that it takes to kind of figure out precisely what resonates. And so having opportunities like that is fantastic. And, you know, if I could have a time machine and do it all over, I think that's certainly something that I would look out for.

Highly recommend at the high school level. Oh yeah, highly recommend.

Yeah, because I was— so another kind of pointing out a statistic that was in the study done by Thomas, you know, conjunction with women in manufacturing. Um, I think it was that STEM programs have the highest success rate of getting women into manufacturing, and that can be at the college and the high school level. And I think that's certainly something that we have to look at together. Um, so I'm curious, like, at your, you know, for your kind of primary education experience or, you know, secondary education experience, did you have opportunities like that? Or really, how did, how did you know that you wanted to pursue engineering?

I didn't know. I was good at chemistry and I like solving problems, and, you know, my boyfriend was going to engineering, and so I thought, oh, why don't I give it a try? And I was one of the people that actually saw it through. And I see a lot of people, um, shift, right? They start a program and they find it's not for them, and they shift, and that's okay too, right? It's your one and precious life. You might as well live it as big as you can.

So—

I didn't, I didn't have a— I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't talk to any engineers. I should have, right? And in this age, um, connectivity, you can definitely do more of that than I did.

Yeah, I just remember we had like one student come to our science classroom and talk about what it was like to be an engineer, but they were working on like the Alaska Pipeline, and I was just like, this is not really what I'm looking for. I just remember that was like the one kind of exposure that we had in high school. I was just speaking from my experience. I don't know about you, Carol. Um, as far as, uh, it's like experiential learnings or just kind of exposure to STEM careers, right?

Oh, I did, I did have co-op in, in high school. I worked in a medical laboratory, and at the time I was very interested in medical lab technology, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Um, it's not something I ended up doing as a career, but I still have a great interest in laboratory sciences and instrumentation and things like that. Microbiology, definitely very— still very interested, especially if something pops up on the news or things like that. It's definitely still there. Well, I think Now is a good time usually, Stephanie, near the end of our conversations we discuss when— what we find would be our one item that we have as a takeaway, and we just do a little round, round our room here. And Grace, would you like to go first?

Yeah, I think it's just the thing that really, I think, sticks out to me about this conversation is kind of doing a double-click on, you know, the topic of our room today is like women do belong in manufacturing. Again, that might be something that a lot of people will dismiss. It's like, of course they do. But then doing the double-click and understanding, you know, what are some of the differences in experience that are maybe pushing women out of manufacturing that are making them not want to consider it as a career path? Career. And there's a lot of small things that we can do to change, you know, that sense of belonging. And it's like Stephanie mentioned, you know, going out of your way to answer questions, you know, making sure that you're listening to those who are, you know, underrepresented within the, within the whole. And just small things like, you know, clothes that fit you, or, you know, I've even seen companies that are doing great work providing like stylish safety boots for women, right? So that you can feel confident in your appearance. Like, if that's something that is important to you, like, you have options for you. Because again, so much is typically made for men that just having that, you know, representation in something physical is really, really important. And so to kind of take a look at the physical world around us and think of like, who is this designed for? And, you know, whether that's like a policy, whether it's machinery, like heights, you know, all sorts of things. And then what are some practical ways that, you know, in the short term or in the long term, we can make this a more welcoming space for all?

That was, that was great summary, Grace. I think, I think for me, it's similar to you. I think making women Giving them the feeling that they belong where they are in any area of manufacturing that they work is organizational, top-to-bottom endeavor. Right from the boardroom to administration, policy procedures, right into the floor and how it impacts women throughout the organization. It is work and But it can be done and it has an impact on all of the employees in the end. So that's my takeaway. Stephanie, would you like to close with your takeaway for today? Sure.

I'm so glad that you picked belonging as a theme because it's a human need. And this is Industry 4.0 Club and it's really not about technology. Digital transformation in my mind is Manufacturing is not about technology. Technology is a tool. And everyone wants to belong. Everyone, all genders, everybody wants to belong. And it's a human right. And when that's, when that's sort of interrupted, then there's something off and you don't maybe can't explain what it is. You can't put your finger on it. But you may feel that subconsciously that you don't belong. And so we want to change that. We want everyone to belong. And, and I love the points that you summarized. So I'm going to, I'm going to leave with that.

Awesome. Well, before we move to close, just invite everyone to go follow Stephanie on LinkedIn. You know, add her if you have questions about engineering or just careers of the future or anything that InGen is doing. And follow the Industry 4.0 Club on LinkedIn so you can tune in for more conversations like this. Again, thank you so much for joining us today, Stephanie, and we thank everyone who's watching live or in the future for your time.

Thank you and have a good day.