Episode 215: Untapped Revenue for You with Maura Perkins

Welcome to the Unstoppable Profit podcast. This podcast will give independent insurance agents all of the tools to grow your business and live life on your terms. Wherever you are today, if you're starting with nothing or well on your way to the success you desire, with the right people, processes and promotions in place, you will be unstoppable. And now I'd like to introduce your host, Mike Stromsol.

Greetings, everybody. Welcome to the next episode of the Unstoppable Profit podcast. I am proud to have our guest today on the podcast, Mara Perkins. And not not only is Mara a UP member, but she is an incredible insurance agent. And we were having a conversation recently about some of the things she does in her agency, and she said because of her heart and who she is. By the way, Mara, welcome to the podcast.

Oh, thanks, Mike. Thank you for having me.

You're welcome. I'm glad you're here. So she said, thank you. If you'd ever like me to share, you know, with other agents about this, I'd be happy to do so. And as my mind works, my first thought is, well, let's jump on a podcast session and we can talk about it there to help agents everywhere. And because of your generosity, you said, no problem. So here we are. So we're going to talk about helping agents. Now, I know agents are not really tuned into this, and it's not important to them. Things like increasing their revenue. Do you think that's important to them?

It should be important to them.

I 100 agree. So I was being a little facetious there, but yes, how to not only increase your revenue, but to make your client's business more profitable, to make it safer while helping them, and most importantly, keep them in compliance with state law and other rules and regs out there in the business industry. So you've got a lot of this stuff figured out. So I'm going to do my best to pull it out of you today and share it with everybody and here, and to help your agency business as well, while helping your clients at the same time. So, Mara, thank you for helping us help others today, but just to give our listeners or people watching a little bit of information about who you are, because they may or might may not yet have heard Amara Perkins, but we both decided we're going to change that, right?

This is true. It's happening.

Okay, very good. Share with us a little bit about who you are and where. Where's your agency located, city, state, and all that.

Okay, well, my name is Mara Perkins of Sagacious Insurance Services. I'm the owner and president of that agency and we're located in Walnut Creek, California. You know, I didn't start out as a little kid wanting to be an insurance agent. I actually wanted to work in a Chinese restaurant or be a psychologist, kind of.

That's an interesting combination.

Yeah, I know I have various talents, but interests. But I ended up in the insurance industry when I moved to California from the east coast and started out as a file clerk and made my way up from there.

Wow. So from file clerk to agency owner.

Correct.

I know a number of people that have come from that position and a longtime agency friend of mine who actually spoke at our OUPP mastermind last year before boot camp, started in the mailroom and said, within five years, I'm going to own the agency. And he did.

Wow, that's fantastic.

Yeah. So anyway. But he was high performing, just like you, huh? Funny how that works.

So.

So, Walnut Creek, California, for those of you in other areas, is in Northern California. And thank you for sharing how you started in the business. So now, how many years in the industry?

36.

36. So what other cool things about Sagacious Insurance Services makes Sagacious cool and unique?

Well, I think just the word itself, right? We named it sagacious, which means, you know, keen, shrewd, cutting edge, on top of your game. So, you know, the reason you'd go with us is we're sagacious. We get you the best coverage for the most appropriate premium, but we do other things. Right. So we're looking out for our clients, just like you had mentioned earlier in the intro. But, you know, one of the things I'm really proud of about our agency is that my employees have all worked for other places or other businesses that I insured and wanted to leave there to come work for me. Right. So we've got a few of those, and then we had one employee who left who actually found her replacement for me. Right.

So, wow.

I think that's a pretty huge testament.

That says a lot right there.

Yeah.

And the intent of this podcast episode was not to be about recruiting and interviewing, but I hope everybody just picked up the gold nugget right there.

Yeah, it's always surprising to me when it happens.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we attract exactly what we are and who we've become. So because of who you become not only as an agency, but who you are culturally, you know, that's attracting people. So great job.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, no problem. So, virtual high five. So with that being said, do peop. I just gotta ask this this is out of left field.

Sure.

I told you there's some were going to come out of left field. Right.

That's completely fine.

Exactly right. Do when clients contact you and maybe they're referred to you, which I'll assume many are, etc. Etc. They say this name sagacious. What's that all about? Did they ask you that question?

Yeah, a lot of the times. It's been a great branding exercise because I talk about it a lot.

Right.

But interestingly enough, you can usually tell if somebody's a voracious reader or has a higher education because those people will know what the name means. Sometimes other people don't. So, you know, it just depends on who the person is.

So you're pre qualifying without qualifying, sort of.

Yeah, organically Happen that way.

Very intuitive of you.

That was just a stroke of luck.

I get it. Hey, you know, luck is where preparation meets opportunity. So good job.

Thank you.

Fantastic. So you've built a. You're heavy towards commercial.

Yeah, we're probably 60% commercial, probably 20% personal now since of the market shift in California, and we're replacing that with life and health.

Fantastic. Great job. So in your efforts to connect with business owners and grow the commercial side of your book, you have built a separate revenue stream, if you will, through services that you provide to your commercial customers. And this is where, really where we wanted to go today because we want to help everybody understand you too can do this. Would you agree, Mara?

No. Absolutely. Anybody could do this. Aha.

Anybody can do this. And I agree with that.

Okay.

The only thing that stands in, in your way is right here between your ears. Right?

Yep.

So anyway, so they have built a suite of services that they provide to their commercial insurance customers. And you actually have a fee schedule or an investment cost for your commercial customers for said services. Right, that's true. So how did you start out in creating this schedule and talk a little bit about how you developed the schedule and inner workings, whatever you're comfortable with?

Well, it came about in a couple ways. Right. So some clients in the beginning, before I had this model built out, would ask me to do additional services, but thought that I would just do them for free. Right. And I don't know if those are clients that were just trying to get over or thought, well, maybe because, you know, I'm female, I would do it. Like, I just have no idea. Right. But you know, I always said no, you know, that if you'd like that, I'm happy to bill you for it, you know, and sometimes they would pay. And other times they'd say, okay, no, thank you. But then I started having more clients ask me for referrals. Right. For maybe an HR firm or do I know a good employment attorney and those issues. And so I would just ask questions to find out, well, why are you asking me for this? Like what's going on in your business that is causing this? And what I quickly identified is small to medium sized businesses don't always have the bandwidth to hire an HR manager. And there was a big gap. Right. In their business model. And a lot of clients, you know, weren't in compliance with state and federal laws. They're not keeping up with the changes annually. And there were so many services that they needed that they just didn't want to handle or didn't have the staff to handle.

And did you find that many of them weren't even aware that they were out of compliance?

Some were not aware, some didn't care. You know, there's that component that if I really don't open the bill, it doesn't exist. Right. I don't have to pay the credit card bill.

Yeah, right. What do you mean? There's no money in my bank account. I still have checks in my checkbook.

Right, right. There you go. Same thing.

Yeah.

So, so interesting conversations and, you know, some people will want our services or you know, we do one offs from time to time if they just need a little help, you know. But for most of our clients that do take our fee for service model, it's a, it's an ongoing contract.

So this applies to new business, you know, relationships and renewal. Relationships, Correct.

So, yes. So even if we have a client who's participating in our fee for service model, it's an annual contract that they have to renew with us.

Awesome. And what's the feedback from the clientele, if you will, about how the services are impacting their business and what's their response? Did they say thank you, this is really helpful. Are team members getting a lot out of this?

I think most of the business owners, yes, they do. You know, so one in particular, you know, we do additional services that I don't usually offer to all of our fee for service models. But they're a restaurant, they have a lot of high turnover. It's a very, very transient business and they can't keep up with adding people into their payroll system. So they'll send me the new hire paperwork and we add that for them and I think that's made their life a lot easier.

So what do you think the Future of being able. And this is another out of left field question.

So what do you think the future of being able to automate a lot of this is. Any thoughts on that?

So some of it is automated, you know, so they. We have access to different systems, you know, that the insured also has access. So we'll enter the same data in two to three databases. But I would love to see at some point, you know, AI be able to do that for us to be able to integrate that so we're not having to do that all. But I still don't think the client would want to handle that themselves.

Yeah. I'm going to provide you some information from a new contact that I have, and I haven't had a relationship with the contact long enough to drop it publicly yet, but it's up in your neck of the woods too.

Oh, okay.

I'm gonna put you two together and see what we can do here. Just to help others. Right. And if we can figure this thing out for you, then we can help others with the same, you know, concept and ability to overcome as well. So. So let's run down just the list of things that you have figured out or on your list. Sound good?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I'm looking at it. You do HR consultation. Tell us more about that.

So HR consultation, You know, if an employer is having an issue between employees or they just have an employee who's taking advantage of their PTO or showing up late consistently, you know, that's something that I could be the person to talk to the employee about. And what I find is when there's a third party involved, the employee usually takes notice a little bit better.

Right. Because there's not that the law. Familiarity is definitely in effect.

Yeah. It changes the employee employer relationship dramatically.

Exactly. But bigger than that, from an insurance perspective, you're providing risk management. Wage and hour has been rampant since about 2007, as I recall. And you know, it's really moved to another level. So you're circumventing that as well and ultimately helping the employer, keeping them safer and in a better place from a risk standpoint.

Yeah. And the employer can't really rely on EPL policies for wage and hour issues now because it's a very difficult coverage to get on your epl. And if you can't have it, it's usually a sub limit of $100,000 to $150,000, if that agree.

And deductibles are real out there in the whole nine yards.

Oh, yeah.

They're better off Paying you the money up front to make sure they never have to worry about it.

Yeah, it helps to mitigate all of that.

Aha. I hope everybody picked that one up. Trying to help y'.

All.

Okay, great. I mean, things like handbooks.

Yeah. So we do employee handbooks. We'll customize them with the client. Depending on what the client wants, that can be a fast process or a very slow process.

Yeah.

We'll put together their IIPP manuals, which are required in the state of California. You know, we make sure they have their all in one posters annually. And oh, with the employee handbooks, we also do the annual updates because state and federal. Federal law changes every January 1st. Right. So we'll do those updates for a lower fee.

That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we help them with hiring. We'll do offer letters, you know, to prospective candidates, and then we'll help with onboarding. We're usually doing the employee benefits for the client, so we'll onboard that employee to that. To that regard, you know, and then we make changes within the policy organically. Right. If they're hiring two or three new people, we automatically increase the payroll in their workers comp. So they don't get caught at final audit. So that's a value add right there. And less steps for the employer to take to have to notify us. We also do improvement plans. Right. So if there needs to be a pip, we can do that online through Zoom meeting or we can be in person. I also do terminations and that can be online, you know, through Zoom meeting or in person. We'll do on site services for tailgate meetings, safety meetings, those types of things if it's needed, depending on the client.

Wow.

That'S robust.

So in the. In the current workplace marketplace, that didn't sound right. But anyway, the current workplace arena, better said, you know, harassment and conflict and all of that is present. Would you agree?

Absolutely.

So you also provide, you know, harassment training and similar services to keep the culture of the organization hopefully in a good place.

Yeah, absolutely. So we provide the. The mandatory sexual harassment training. And more and more states are making this mandatory, not just California. So we're licensed, I think, in 19 or 20 states now. So, you know, that's a big ball of yarn to unwind. Right. When you're looking at all the different state laws. But we also have an HR service that helps us with employment practices law so we don't get ourselves into trouble. So we have a third party that we can go to.

Right.

If there are state specific Questions, which.

Is the one that keeps their finger on the pulse to make sure that what you're sharing with people is current and relevant.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Because that's, that's a whole nother moving.

Yeah. It's ever changing. Right. Yeah. We want to protect our client. We also want to protect ourselves. Right, yeah.

And we talked about that before we started just now. Change is not a four letter word.

Right, Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, you get into certificate tracking as far as your schedule.

Yep. So we do a lot of certificate tracking mainly for contractors who are using subcontractors. So, you know, we have a fee for every little thing that we do. And, you know, that's one of our least favorite things to do, but it's necessary. Right. So it helps our contractors not have issues at final audit when they're using contractors and they can't provide that certificate. So it's saving them money.

Well, that's the. Why that. There's two things there that may be in play and correct me if I'm wrong, not only the audit, but coverage. I mean, some policies have contractual endorsements that say if the coverage is not at this, then, you know, the sub limit or the. The following form does not apply.

Correct. And that's the subcontractor's warranty. And then if it's. If the sub cert isn't up to snuff the general or contract, the general contractor's policy is going to charge them for the subs work, just like they were an employee.

Correct. Correct. So ultimately you're protecting them and helping them be better through your services.

Correct. And so when, you know, we have a client who may say, oh, you know, I don't want to continue with your services this year, I just don't really see the value add. You know, that's one thing that we point out. Like how much money did we save you throughout the year? Right. And now you want to let that go and deal with it on your own.

You know? Well, you know, I just ask them, is that really what you want to do? Do you want to manage that on your own? And the answer is usually no. And they'll renew.

Well, and so the better the question, the better the result. So you're just positioning it to show your value. And because you're showing your value and you're aware of the value, you can provide them out.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, that's why everybody here can do the same thing. You have to get prepared and. Oh, that action thing.

Yeah, the action thing. I mean, that's always, you know, that can be tough. But we've written workflows out for every process, so it's, you know, not just myself handling this anymore. Right. So train the team. Right.

It's the evolution of a segment of your business. I mean, you've been doing these services for how long?

I want to say five years.

Yeah. So when you started out, you didn't know?

No, I started out. I mean, we started with one client, and I thought, okay, well, we'll pitch it and see what happens. And we pitched it, and they caught it. So I was like, okay, well, maybe this could be something one day. Now I've got something.

Yeah. Yeah. Steve Jobs had a vision of putting songs in everybody's pocket.

And look at us now.

Look at him. Well, yeah, look at the empire that he built now.

Right. Yeah. There's all of us like, well, they always told us, you'll never have a calculator. You have to figure this stuff out. But I have a calculator all the time.

Exactly. And Bezos.

So anyway.

Yeah.

And on and on and on we go. So great job. Great job. So, you know, you built this out over five years, and it continues to evolve, and it's become a part of your business that separates you from the rest of the marketplace. And so, you know, when a prospect might say, why sagacious? Over and above any other options available to them, this is part of your response. This is something you can't get anywhere else. And in addition to that, what comes with it is a team that cares about you, that is committed and dedicated to making your business better and more profitable.

Absolutely. And I couldn't be happier about that.

Yeah. Yeah. So great job. I mean, you're the one that did the work. You're the one that took the steps and has done great things so far, and I can't wait to see. See how it evolves.

Oh, thanks, Mike. I appreciate that.

Yeah, no problem. So anything else you'd like to add surrounding this particular effort or anything else concerning agency operations?

Well, you know, we have another fee fee model, too. Right. We have our agency fee that we use for surplus lines business, and I know a lot of agents don't do that, and I've always wondered why. I worked at agencies in the past where they didn't charge an agency fee on surplus lines business, and they were happy with the 7 and a half or 10% commission where with if it was a standard line policy, they'd be getting 15 to 20%. Right. So why would you not see it? I never Understood that.

Okay, so you do?

Yeah, so we do. I mean, you know, there's more work involved with surplus lines. So I, I feel that it's fair and we just fee to get to the point that we would, we would be at if it was a standard policy commission.

So what kind of pushback do you get?

No pushback. Never.

Wait, wait, wait. Let me ask that one again. What kind of pushback do you get?

No pushback.

I see. Okay.

So once in a while, I mean, somebody will say, oh, what is this agency fee? And then they want to go through the whole suite of fees and state tax and stamping fee and we just disclose it. You know, they sign an agreement that we can collect that fee because that's required in California.

Right.

You know, we tell them we have to share the commission with the wholesaler. So this makes us whole.

Right.

You know, and then they, they don't mock at it. They realize the work we've done.

Exactly, exactly. Fantastic.

Yeah, great.

Great job. So the opportunity is out there. You just have to position yourself to show your value and to bring your value and to do things differently than maybe the rest of the marketplace. And you too can create an empire like Mara is building. So, great job.

Thank you.

So as far as, as a result of the growth so far, what do you see your vision for the future being as far as sagacious and beyond?

Well, I mean, that's a good question. We have a lot of plans, right? So if we can hit most of them, that would be fantastic. But you know, I, I probably have about 10 to 15 years left in the business, so I'm looking for, you know, not rapid growth, but steady growth to be in a good position to sell the business. Most of my employees are in my age range as well, so it's, you know, it would be a good thing, Right. I don't think many people would be left high and dry, but we're definitely going to be growing the commercial line side of our business to be a much higher percentage as well as life insurance. I'm not in love with personal lines or group benefits, so, you know, those would be very low level.

Departments, income streams.

I get it, I get it. Well, good. Congratulations and can't wait to see what the future unpacks for you. So excited about that. And has your up experience helped get clear on where you're going?

That's such a loaded question, Mike. I mean, yeah. Meeting you at the boot camp and then all the other agents, I mean, I really honestly thought you all were crazy. Only from the standpoint that everyone was so open to the information and everyone was good with sharing and wanted to share with you, and people wanted to know who I was. And, you know, from my experience, brokers in the past always played it very close to the chest and they don't divulge anything. And so it was very eye opening and kind of mind blowing to experience that. So I'm so thankful to be part of it because it's really bolstered my motivation and I have much more accountability and I'm way more on track. My team is focused, they're working much more efficiently, and I think everyone's happier.

That's a good place to be.

Yeah.

So speaking of boot camp, if anybody was either watching or listening to this and was considering coming to boot camp, what would you say to them?

I would say absolutely do it. Hands down. I mean, I am a skeptic by nature. I was offered a free ticket to go to boot camp last year and it just blew my mind. So. And I don't say that lightly. So I think no matter what stage of agency development you're in, there's always something that you can get because there's something that you or your partner or your team could be doing better, more of or more efficiently. There's always something more. And this would just help anybody to really put their mind to it and stay focused and on track.

Well, thank you. Thank you for the kind words.

You're welcome.

And that's. That's our goal. That's our goal is to help agents grow their business, create wealth, and have more freedom. And you're on track. And there's so many good things you're doing and. And bigger than that, you're turning around and giving back to others, which is part of, you know, what we believe as an organization, impacting people's lives personally and professionally is our goal. And you are doing that as well. Thank you for walking by our sides and helping others, and thank you for sharing on the podcast. Anything else you'd like to add as we wrap it up?

No, I think I'm good. I mean, if anybody has any questions, they're always welcome to reach out to me. You know, about the fee for service model. I'd be happy to chat individually, but no, thank you for having me, Mike. And I really appreciate your time and your want for me to talk about this.

You're welcome. Thank you for offering. I mean, when somebody offers something that's of value, I find a way to get it to the masses.

Fantastic. I hope it Works. I hope it helps.

Should we drop a joke for the end?

Just. Oh, I believe so. Absolutely. Okay.

Speaking of the masses, you got to be careful of what comes from the masses because sometimes there's no m.

And I've. I've got a visual of that. But not for the family show.

Yeah, definitely not. Right. I'm more getting a visual scar, I think.

Exactly, exactly. So anyway. No, the. Anyway, I'll drop it at that. Mara Perkins, thank you. Congratulations so far on your success with Sagacious and who you are as an individual. Can't wait to experience the future growth and best of success to you. And let us know how more we can support you.

Oh, thanks, Mike. I appreciate it. And you'll definitely know because you're in the plans.

Thank you. Thank you for allowing us to. We're honored. All right, everybody, thank you. Thank you for joining us on this episode. And if this is your first episode in either watching or listening to the Unstoppable Profit podcast, welcome. My name is Mike Stromso. I'm widely recognized as a leading author, speaker and coach for the independent insurance agency industry. You can learn more about what we do @unstoppable profit producer.com if you're interested in one of our virtual or live training programs. Our virtual platform is upfaststart.com and as Mara was speaking about, our live trainings are at be unstoppablebootcamp.com everything we do is designed to provide you our best money making strategies developed over 35 years in the trenches, 100 of the time as a proud independent insurance agent. All designed to help you grow your business, create wealth so you too can have more freedom to live life on your own terms. That's all we want for you. And if you got great value out of this podcast, please share unstoppable profit podcast.com with somebody that you know or care about, another agent or what, regardless of where they are. Please share that URL. And if you haven't yet, go to Unstoppable ProfitPodcast.com Go up to the top and click subscribe so you won't miss one valuable episode. To help you grow your business, create wealth and have more freedom. And remember, we're out there on all the channels, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, our YouTube channel and beyond. So we just want to help you, want to be of value to you. Mara was talking about the value that she brings to people as well. So thank you for joining us again. Mara Perkins. Great job. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mike.

I appreciate it everybody. Thank you for joining us. Until the next episode. Oh, by the way, if you have any comments about today's podcast, below is an opportunity where you can share your comments. What did you learn from the podcast today? What was your big takeaway or takeaways? Please share that in the comments below. We want to know. We want to help people grow all of the time. So again, thank you for joining us. We will see you on the next episode. And remember, you got this. We believe in you. We'll see you on the next episode.

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