Episode 82: InsurTech from THE Legendary Source

Welcome to the Unstoppable Profit Podcast. Wherever you are today, if you're starting with nothing or are well on your way to the success you desire, with the right people, processes and promotions in place, you will be unstoppable. And now I'd like to introduce your host, Mike Stromso.

Welcome everybody. This is Mike Stromco coming to you live from the Living Agency Laboratory. And I am uber pumped and uber excited about our guest on this episode of the Unstoppable podcast. Been twisting this gentleman's arm for a number of weeks and trying to fit it into his schedule, which is so full because of the high demands on his time, because of his knowledge. And we're going to eke out everything that we can from Mr. Frank Sentner over the next time that we have on this podcast. Frank. Welcome to the podcast, sir.

Thank you, Mike. I'm happy to be here.

I'm grateful and fortunate to have you with us. Frank. I want to get started because I know you have so much to share and our time is not as long today as we would love, but so let's get started. Give Everybody a quick 1 to 2.

Minute spiel on who you are.

Where do you start in this industry to now?

Okay, well, first and foremost, I live and work in downtown Hartford, Connecticut, the once and future capital of the insurance industry, we hope. And I got into this business sort of by accident. My best friend was a salesman for a company that did batch processing for insurance agents way back in the day. And they had a new mini computer system they were selling called Insurenet. And I knew nothing about insurance, nothing about accounting, which is all it really did at that time, and nothing about computers. But my best friend was the sales manager. So I was hired.

In the world.

Right? Right, exactly. It's who you know. Before that I actually worked in group homes for the mentally retarded. I'm told that that was a good preparation for my work calling on and selling computers to insurance agents.

Notice I'm not commenting.

Since I'm one of them, right? At any rate.

I quickly found that I wasn't a great salesman. But I really enjoyed learning about the computer system and learning about what agents and brokers did. And I gravitated more towards the larger commercial brokers early on, insurance brokers early on, because the system was very expensive relative to others available at that time. Fast forward. That system needed policy and claims information. We use the Accord forms and deconstructed them to create green screens which could capture the information and then print on pre Printed forms. It was amazing. And then I thought I'd.

Right after splice bed.

Right, right, exactly.

And then I decided I knew enough to go out there on my own. Started my own consulting practice, worked with agents on a variety of other agency management systems, and then formed a company with two partners. One was a commercial insurance broker, Jerry Levy, and the other was a brilliant technical guy, Dave Murdoch. And in our spare time, we were all consulting. We started building what is today known as Sagita. I use the Accord AL3 data standard, the new EDI standard for download, as the basis for the database. The system wasn't originally called Sagitta. That happened after we merged with the division of the Aetna and before we were acquired by Vertafore.

That system is still running Marsh, MMA, BB and T USI some marquee brands. Top 10 brokers in the world. That could probably only happen in the insurance industry. Sajida is 35 years old, a lot younger than me, but a lot older than systems in almost any other sector.

Congratulations and thank you.

Thank you. It was a joy and a terror. Honestly, running my own business, as I think independent agents know, it's like having children, right? I then went back out on my own after 15 months as chief Technology officer for Vertafore and actually was AMS Services then. But it became Vertafore and I worked with a variety of different large agents and brokers, insurance carriers, software vendors. But in the last five years, I really discovered my true passion, which is back to my entrepreneurial roots. Through a cord and running their InsurTech Innovation Challenge annually for the last six years, I've come into contact with the new InsurTech vendors and been inspired by their passion, by their innovation, by their fearlessness. And I discovered something I'd already learned through my daughter, with my granddaughters, that is having grandchildren is all joy. The terror is gone. And so working with startups, it's not my house that's going to get a second mortgage to make payroll. Being the mentor is and has been a true joy over the last six years. And I've been fortunate to work with folks here in Hartford, the city and state of Hartford, and I mean the city and state of Connecticut, and UConn University, InsurTech Hartford, to build our first InsurTech accelerator. And I've worked principally with the startups in a mentoring capacity. And I shifted my consulting practice away from fee for service to equity for service. And I have nine contracts right now and I'm hoping to have a few more before Year end. So I really, really enjoy this process. This stage of my career has been terrifically inspiring.

Well, fantastic. And thank you for your contribution back to our industry. And a lot of people might have a little bit of fear in this insuretech environment, so let's dig in. But before we go there, why do insurers back to our carrier partners who we all love, why do insurers force agents to use their websites to lead into this insuretech environment?

Sure, I'm sure they would not agree with the word force, but let's say incentivize heavily. That's in large measure because they realize that if insurance agents and brokers are required to submit business through their website, they'll submit it to about half as many markets as they would if they simply generated court forms out of their agency management system and emailed them to all the markets. So that is the short answer to that question. Now, ironically, the carriers seem to be a bit math challenged because I have never met one that thought they weren't getting a chance to see all the submissions that their agents provide. But they know from their own analysis that those agents are only submitting it to half as many markets. So I don't know who those carriers are who aren't getting to see the business, but they're out there. And I think that this is a very short sighted perspective. Even today with new comparative raters for commercial lines, the raiders can only get you to sort of an indicative quote. The carriers, all of them, require that you finish that quote on their website and that data that you enter into their website is not able to be captured back into the platform that you use to get there in the first place. It might have been your agency management system directly. It could have been an aggregator, it could be a comparative rater. But you know that and I really think that that is making it a lot more difficult for agents and brokers to get the business to the carriers. They can't possibly know all the markets that are best for any given risk. And to the extent that the carriers inhibit them from being able to make submissions more easily and get to that bindable quote more quickly and make that right decision for the customer, they're really doing themselves and of course their agents a great disservice.

Yeah, and I agree with you. Thank you for putting this on the platform. And after my observation of almost 35 years in our industry, this awesome industry in my opinion, I mean, there's commoditization of personal lines in the minds of some, in a lot of ways, but commercial is different because ultimately you said a bindable quote online. I've experienced that the end of the binding opportunity still rests right here.

Right with the phone. Right.

I will pick up the phone and.

I will contact the underwriter, Frank. And I'll say, frank, allow me to enlighten you.

Why you need to come to the table a little bit more to bring this account home. And I know that you're working within our industry as well to bring that comparative nature and the speed of bringing business to the table to US agencies, US agents out there. Thank you so much and great work.

This is not a technology problem, Mike. It has never been a technology problem. The technology has existed in every generation of technology that we've had as long as I've been in the business. The thing that bothers me is that the carriers have so little faith in their agency partners. It's as if they think that if we suddenly discover that they're the cheaper market, that's the only thing we're going to sell. They don't understand that agents get paid on commission. Okay? More premium, more commission. Okay. So they are already incentivized to sell a more expensive product if it's appropriate. They're looking at all aspects of this, the types of coverages, the types of inclusions, the type of exclusions.

It is not a one size fits all industry. I mean, if you are an insured who has a high level of claims, you need to know that the carrier you're being placed with is one that can expedite and has a reasonably high tolerance for losses. It's not gonna do you any good to get a cheaper policy in a carrier that is really stringent and is going to deny those claims. Agents know those things.

It's just really, really unfortunate.

Yeah, we're in the middle of the playground.

We're toe to toe, eye to eye, meeting people where they are. Fantastic points. Thank you so much for bringing that to the table. 100% agree. You know, one of my favorite questions on the front lines, if you will, because I'm still in the trenches every single day, you know, And I love to ask, after I position the customer or the prospect in a certain place, I say, let me ask you a question. When you hear the word insurance, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Protection or price? And I specifically and intentionally say protection first to see if they'll respond in like manner.

Right.

Because whatever they believe is what it's.

Gonna be all about.

Right. And if they don't, it's our job to educate them. I mean, we have lost the opportunity to continually reinforce the social good that is insurance. Insurance carriers complain about churn. Well, they've reduced the relationship to a purely financial one. What else is the customer going to leave for? Okay. Their protection in this process is the independent agent.

You know, you just brought kind of a crazy thought to my mind and I've never held anything back and I'm.

Not going to start today.

So I don't know about you, but I don't sleep with my computer on my pillow.

Do you?

No.

My wife doesn't allow that.

So ultimately, at the end of the day, we still are in a relationship.

Business, but how can we help with technology to enhance that relationship? Let's move on. Great conversation.

Thank you, Frank.

You're welcome.

Let's talk about insurtech accelerators. You've got a lot of insight on.

The do's and the don'ts.

Share, please.

I've been fortunate. I worked a bit through a cord with the Global Insurance Accelerator in Des Moines and.

I saw how they structured their process. And every cohort is actually a separate llc. And the insurers that invest in funding that accelerator have a share in the ownership of that llc. And that LLC takes a piece of every one of the startups. They also commit, the insurers and the brokers commit a half day of their CEO's time to meeting with the startups. And every one of the operational units of those companies also commit. The heads of those operational units commit to mentoring the startups. Nobody is not going to take their responsibilities in this regard seriously when the CEO is given a half day of his or her time. And so they have successfully maintained the relationships with their carriers and brokers through the last six years. We did a different thing here in Hartford and mostly because the insurers wanted to have later stage startups and so they didn't want to have the accelerator take a share of.

The operating companies that came to the accelerator, an equity share.

What that resulted in was a lack of commitment all around.

The accelerator operator agreed to this for three years. They're gone. Okay. Their upside, they get a piece of this action too. Their upside was in that equity share and they had none for the first three years. They got the contract, but they lost out on the bigger opportunity. The carriers never made a commitment to have senior senior people in Hartford spend time with the startups. And as a consequence, I think all too much of this work was turned over to people whose specific job was innovation. And many times Those folks who are responsible for innovation within a corporate environment, they're very proud of the fact that they have nothing to do with those operational people, those folks who deal with that day to day stuff. Unfortunately, those are the people that the startups want to talk to. They're the ones who could potentially become a customer. And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. Accelerators are about becoming customers, I can tell you that. Finally, we have a broker driven insurtech accelerator program in BrokerTech Ventures. It grew out of the global insurance accelerator in Des Moines. It was championed initially by Holmes Murphy and dan Keogh, the CEO of Holmes Murphy, who is now co CEO and co founder of BrokerTech Ventures. It's a combination accelerator and investment fund and it is staffed by 13 or so, maybe 15 of the largest privately held brokers in the U.S. they're all super regionals. Okay. They're all writing enormous amounts of business and they realized that they needed to have their own accelerator because the other accelerators were all dominated by the insurers. And there are different requirements to meeting the needs of agents and brokers who are in fact much closer to the customer than the insurers are. So those are some of the do's and don'ts that I would recommend.

Wow.

And if you're not listening closely, I would strongly recommend that you stop right here, go back and listen to that again. That was pure gold. Thank you Frank for sharing.

You're welcome. Broker Tech B R O K E R T E C H Ventures.

All1Word.com BrokerTechVentures.com that's B E B. Spell that again please.

B R O K E R T E C H Ventures. V E N T u r e s.com Fantastic.

Have to definitely check that out. That's another piece of gold. Thank you.

Absolutely exciting. Yeah, yeah.

Very, very exciting. So new technologies that might be out there that agents may not be aware of right now. So what's going on in that arena based on your observations so far?

I think it will be borne out by anybody who's been involved in these accelerators. About half the technologies that we see are actually risk mitigation technologies. They're not intended for risk transfer. This is an interesting aspect to the emergence of the Internet of things where almost every device has its own sensors and is connected to the Internet and capable of reporting back on data points that we've never been able to measure before. Right. Insurance agents and brokers are closest to the customer in my opinion. They're best positioned to help customers choose solutions that are gonna help to prevent losses. Okay. And you know, if you sell somebody a product and it's an exchange, a financial exchange, you get a certain amount of money, they get a piece of paper they hope they never have to use. It's not very sticky. And agents spend an enormous amount of time and money making their relationship sticky doing a whole bunch of things that got nothing to do with selling insurance.

Right.

If you help people be safer, that's sticky. I remember when insurance carriers had engineering staffs and loss control specialists and they provided those professionals to their insureds in order to lower their risk of loss, to improve their loss ratio, to make the business more profitable. As these companies became bigger and more financially driven and they cut out all, quote, non core business, they got rid of that. Okay. And so it's all underwritten on the basis of algorithms now. It's all based on financials. A number of insurance agents and brokers throughout the country who had special niche markets. They worked with small mom and pop grocery stores, or they did parking lots, or they did construction. They hired some of those loss control specialists in engineering folks in order to offer those services to their customers. Being agents and brokers, they usually charge for those services. Now they may give them away the first year for the to get the new business, but they're actually building a relationship with their customers using professional services that's beyond the reach of a lot of agents and brokers because these folks are expensive. But if you were to use the technologies that are out there, that are really inexpensive relative to the value they provide, you could push this into your customers and make it a very sticky relationship. Something that would adhere in the face of pricing changes and other ups and downs, losses and the like.

Right. Which is right. In the financial arena that these carriers got their mind around and they might have on their pillows every single night. Right, right.

I think carriers should be doing it as well. But I'm, you know, my primary interest is in helping independent agents and brokers and in the commercial space in particular, that is where you can really make a difference. The products are too complicated and difficult for even, you know, fairly sophisticated business people. And having someone, you know, an independent agent or broker who is capable of evaluating the risks and helping you to take steps to protect yourself is going to make all the difference in the world.

Absolutely. One of the most eye opening experiences that I've had probably in the last three or four years, I got invited to sit on a panel at the National Predictive analytics conference. Absolutely eye opening as to what these carrier people are actually thinking about.

Yeah, yeah. Predictive analytics is the other aspect of this, which is the big data. And you know, we'll maybe we'll come back to data a little later.

I think we have round two coming up in the near future because we're not going to get to everything that I know spewing out of your mind today. Thank you for sharing, Frank. This is absolutely awesome.

So let's jump onto another topic real quick.

What are the best agency tech initiatives that are out there that you said.

Your goal is to help agents and brokers?

Thank you so much for helping us. We are grateful for, for your participation and you having our back always. But so what are some of the best agency tech initiatives out there and how can agents and brokers take greater advantage about learning and using them to meet the customers where they are, if you will.

Well and.

I have in my portfolio of client companies very good examples of many of the across the board customer facing solutions that agents and brokers can and should take advantage of. The first one that comes to mind is the insurance agent mobile app. They've been my advisee for three years now and it is a white label app that just means that it doesn't have its own logo. You put your logo on.

Puts your agency in the hands of your customers, of every one of your customers and it does everything from, you know, a, an inventory of your, your valuables in your home which is an upsell opportunity for every agent and broker. I don't know any agent or broker who doesn't ask their customers to do that inventory. I don't know very many people who do. Also includes the ability to integrate with your agency management system and the customer can see all of the coverages in their app. It can provide them with the end does provide them with the ability for proofs of insurance like an auto ID card and it also gives them the ability to request changes to communicate with their agent and broker. And it gives the agent or broker the opportunity to communicate with them, to notify them. You know.

There'S a hailstorm coming through, right? Some areas of the country this is a big deal. Get your car in the garage or under cover and you can do that with an alert on the phone, little red dot that shows up on the phone and the customer can click on it and deal with it. So that ability to provide customer service on these micro computers that we carry around and call phones is an enormous extension and especially in the age of COVID it Puts you in more direct contact with your customers. Digital engagement for agents and brokers is the name of the game. It doesn't replace all the things that good agents and brokers do, the cards, the letters, the discount, you know, the rewards for doing, answering the surveys, you know, and so forth. All of that outreach that agents and brokers do, going to the local, when we could going to the local, you know, Knights of Columbus meeting or the.

The other civic and religious opportunities that agents and brokers have for connecting. But it is a way of connecting with all your customers and it's more important, not exclusively, but it's more important with your millennials, with your Gen Xers, Gen Z, because they are much more driven by what happens on their phone. So that's one. I have another one which is similar in a way, but different because it's a chatbot. And a chatbot doesn't necessarily rely on having an app on your phone. It uses the text capability of your phone, but it makes it very smart.

And it will give you the ability to communicate with your insurance in a very non threatening way. People are never worried about saying no to the chatbot. They're not going to hurt the chatbots feeling right. But if you contact your customer with cross sell and upsell opportunities.

Through the chatbot and they respond affirmatively or favorably, now your people are not having to make cold calls to contact people whom your customer experience recommendation engine, and I'll get to that in a minute, might identify. They're dealing with a warm transfer from somebody who's already said they want it, they're interested and it has customer service capabilities as well. But the primary focus here is on sales and I think that that is top of mind for every insurance agent.

Absolutely, absolutely. All the time. Fantastic information. So you said there was one more to add.

Yes.

The AI in machine learning. I know everybody's heard about it. It's not rocket science. It's not mysterious, okay. And it's not magic. What it is is it's giving the power in the system to analyze vast amounts of data which we're unable to do to identify patterns. Human beings are very good at identifying patterns, but we don't deal well with large masses of data. We also don't deal all that well with unstructured data. So unstructured data is just big blocks of text that could be emails, it could be texts, it could be the transcription of voice conversations. Almost all agents and brokers today are recording voice conversations for their own protection. But it is valuable information and if you have an AI platform that has the neuro linguistic programming capabilities to be able to extract and gain meaning from those things. It can make recommendations and observations for you that you would never, you know, think of my insurance agent, Chris Paradiso didn't believe this at first. And you know the company Aureus analytics that I dealt with, by the way, the chatbot was Leo L E O the. The. The company that did the. The analytics that I work with is Aureus Analytics. A U R e u s analytics.com and Aureus.

Worked with my agent, Chris Paradiso and analyzed his data and they convinced him to use some third parties. It's a company that used to be part of Pitney Bowes, but it's called Precisely, and it has lots of demographic data about individuals and.

It gave him some recommendations in the application that Aureus built, which is called Donna. Donna is your administrative assistant who knows everything and that and never goes through.

An emotional trauma moment and works around the clock. Great attitude all the time. Right?

Right. Doesn't get sick, all of those good things. But it came up with some things for a woman that Chris sits next to in church every Sunday. And he didn't believe them. Okay. And through contact with his own people internally who were in conversation with her, and also he saw her walking past his office, he ran outside and asked her several questions about things that he didn't believe would be appropriate for her. Did she collect sports memorabilia? Sports memorabilia? Answer yes. Is it insured? No. Okay. Because Chris didn't know. And he sits in trucks with her every week and just a bunch of other things that it recommended. And he became a believer just on the strength of that one experience. So AI Machine learning applied properly to. For agents, its real proper application is customer service, customer retention, and it's also extremely helpful for cross sell and upsell.

Wow.

And you know, back to two things that I just wrote down. I've got lots of notes myself.

Thank you, Frank.

You're welcome.

Engagement.

Yes.

And what I was thinking about as you were talking about digital engagement, my wife, who I'm sure you can probably tell by my hair, I'm advanced in life. I'm becoming seasoned. She still looks great. But so is she. She's got this thing in front of her all of the time. And sometimes the best way to reach her is to engage her digitally. So you mentioned millennials, and I agree with that. But it's not just for millennials anymore.

Oh, no, no. I'm always on my phone.

So is she. And you know, she's Talking to the grandkids, because that's how to communicate. So, my friends, if you are not on this channel, this digital channel, if you will, you need to get on there right now or you're going to get left behind. In the words of Will Rogers, we never want that for anybody that we know. He said, if you just sit there, you're going to get run over.

So we don't want that for you. And the other thing is, Donna identifies.

Patterns because us emotional human beings, we're.

So caught up in everything going on, like our families, which is obviously the highest priority, but we don't think about them.

Even though we're sitting right next to.

Them in church.

Donna's on top of it. She's removing all that and identifies it for us. So Donna's our partner.

Right. Right. Fantastic. And, you know, I mean, again, it is not an either or. This is an and for agents. Okay? You still have to go to church and sit next to her and be nice. Okay? But this will give you insights that you wouldn't have had so that you can help to protect her, him, them better.

You know, I've never seen an agent end up in court because there was too much protection in place. You.

Nope, nope. Doesn't exist.

Exactly. Exactly. So, Frank, this is awesome. I'm going to ask one last question. We'll try to make it as short as we can, but agency data. Back to Donna. Donna is the account manager of the agency data. Why do vendors, though, restrict access to agency data?

That actually is a long and fairly involved answer, but I'll boil it down. Okay.

That'll be our stepping stone for maybe our next conversation.

Go ahead.

I'm happy to drill down on this in more detail. You're probably aware that vertafore sold for $5.35 billion to Roper Technologies last month. Okay. My product that I created, Sagitta, is 35 years old. AMS360 is 30 years old. Even QQ, which I believe Vertafore is busily about the process of smothering, is 10 years old. Nobody pays $5.35 billion for decades old technology. The reason they're paying that much money is because of your data. And if you don't believe me, you can go to the web and just Google Vertafore's terms and conditions. They're very nice. They put them right out on the web. You can click on a link and it will take you to the terms and conditions for their standard license agreement. And in section 4.3, you will find that after Vertafore takes your data and de identifies it means taking off anything that could identify the individual, either the person, the risks and so forth and aggregates it so that you can't identify which agency it came from. They own your data, they own the rights to your data, they own all derivative works and they stipulate several they can do that are any legal purpose in effect is what it says in the contract. So what they're very they're doing with agents and brokers is they're borrowing your watch and charging you to tell you what time it is.

Now I don't have a copy of Applied's contract, but I'm fairly certain that they're in the same camp. It's not true of all agency management system vendors. Chris's agency management system is hawks off. And Paul Hawkins is an old guy like me. He doesn't believe that vendors should be controlling agents data. And they provide an open API that lets any vendor that qualifies through the process and their agents request connect to the system and take out all the policy and claim and customer data and use it. That's how Donna can work in Chris's agency. We approached Vertafore, we've approached Applied Systems. They can shut you down either contractually or they can shut you down through business practice. Call it the Orange Partner program. You only get in if I approve you. I don't know who died and made them God. But then the last one is by simply ignoring you, you just ignore them. So the reason that they control the agents data, and this is pretty much true of, it's not true of Quick Fusion or Varuna or most of the other smaller newer vendors. But those smaller newer vendors just get chewed up. You know, these agency management system vendors use the enormous dollars that they get from private equity to buy up their competition, thereby stifling any innovation that might be possible. They're also preventing the insurtechs from having access to the data that belongs to the agencies in order to stifle competition. This is restraint of trade. And agents need to start talking to their trade associations about fixing this. You can't do it yourself. You can negotiate with them on price to a certain extent, but you can't change their terms and conditions. That can only be done either legislatively through regulation at a regulatory level or in a court of law. I hope it never comes to a court of law. But they're not going to give up easily, I can promise you that.

And you know who's going to lose in that whole scenario, I think we both know. But just to make sure, we put it on the table.

Right. The customer.

The customer, exactly. And that's what. That breaks my heart.

It does. And independent agents and brokers are some of the most entrepreneurial, innovative, creative people I know. They would be all over these technologies. But every technology, whether it's your mobile app, insurance agent, mobile app, your chatbot, Leo, your analytics platform, Aureus analytics, it doesn't matter. You're always in need of connection with that data that's in the agency management system. That's the core of your operation. To restrict that is just unconscionable.

Right.

You said, just make sure I got this written down correctly as we begin to wrap it up. Restraint of trade.

Restraint of trade. I'm going to keep that as a writer downer, possibly to platform, onto our next conversation, which, if we can find the time in your calendar, I would be privileged to continue this. And I've got a picture back to our friend Mr. Paradiso, who publishes this amazing magazine. I love this picture. Tell me more about this picture. You have a beer in your hand.

That picture was taken during my wife and my trip to Scotland last year. She's mostly Scots and I'm Scots Irish, and it was just a glorious, glorious trip. Wonderful people, believe it or not. Great food and incredible beer. So I think it's time for me to crack one myself.

Well, Frank, I would love to hear your feedback. We happen to have a little niche that we've created in our own insurance agency business, effectively in the living agency laboratory called beerloversinsurance.com.

Oh, cool. Yeah, check it out.

Maybe pour yourself a cold one and maybe take a quick view. And I would be happy to reciprocate somehow, some way on your feedback how we can continue to grow this.

Beerloversinsurance.com.

All right, I got it here.

There's. To give you a little visual. There's the logo.

Oh, cool.

Yeah. Believe it or not, we use these.

To set a cold glass on.

There's another platform conversation for the future, right?

For sure. Absolutely.

Frank Center. I am privileged. I am honored. I am grateful to spend a few minutes with you talking about our industry and how we can advance our industry for the greater good. Most importantly, to serve and protect people using the technology we've been gifted with versus haggling with each other.

Right? Right. There's no sustainable competitive advantage in us not helping one another in this area.

Right.

And I want to thank you, Mike, for giving me the opportunity to reach out to a large audience of independent agents and brokers. I know that this is above and beyond the call in your own agency, but I think it has enormous value.

Well, thank you. And it's a privilege and an honor for me to help others because I believe that the law of reciprocity is always in effect.

Agreed.

Mr. Frank Sentner, thank you so much. And for anybody watching and or listening.

To this, please share it with anybody.

And everybody you know. Unstoppable Profit podcast.com unstoppableprofitpodcast.com if you're not already subscribed, go there and subscribe so that we can help get this into your sphere of influence automatically. You won't have to lift a finger so that we can help you continue to grow and continue to learn more. Frank thank you so much my friend. Grateful to connect with you. Look forward to connecting again. Thank you for all you do for us agents and brokers out there.

Take care, Mike.

You too. Thank you everybody. Have a phenomenal one of a kind day and make a difference. Be unstoppable and leave no regrets. I'll see you on the next podcast. Take care everybody.

Thank you for listening. If you would like to listen to more episodes or share this podcast with someone you care about, please visit www.unstoppableprofitpodcast.com now go out and make a difference. Be unstoppable and leave no regrets.