In this interview, Taiz and Speaker A explore how to heal a dismissive‑avoidant attachment style. Taiz outlines five primary focus areas: (1) core‑wound reprogramming to replace subconscious beliefs that vulnerability equals weakness; (2) identifying and meeting hidden relational needs such as safety, acknowledgment, and empathy; (3) emotional regulation through meditation, breathwork, and nervous‑system soothing; (4) clear communication of needs and boundary setting; and (5) behavioral change that naturally follows the first three steps. A sixth, “bonus” focus—behavioral shifts—is described as a downstream effect of the earlier work. The conversation emphasizes the primacy of the relationship to self, advocating interdependence over codependence or counter‑dependence. Taiz shares practical tools (autosuggestion, feelings journals, journaling routines) and personal anecdotes about his own marriage to a fearful‑avoidant partner, illustrating how meeting self‑needs, regulating the nervous system, and honest communication foster a secure, interdependent partnership. Speaker A reflects on her own therapy experiences, noting difficulty naming emotions and the importance of repeated prompting to uncover needs. The dialogue blends theoretical framing with actionable strategies for individuals seeking to move from dismissive avoidance toward healthier relational patterns.
Chapters
As a fellow dismissive, I was like, I was always in my thoughts. And the first time I ever went through therapy, like the therapist gave me a feelings journal and I would write out, I think.
Yeah.
The first like 3 times I would write out, I think, and then I'd have like 2 lines. That's all the feelings I could come up with. I'm like, I'm supposed to write a whole page. So, Taiz, I'm so excited to chat with you today. How do you heal a dismissive avoidant? Like, I want to ask for my own curiosity, uh, personal coaching right here.
Yeah, absolutely. So, so there's— whenever we're trying to change our attachment style, there's like 5 major focus areas. There's kind of like an honorable 6th, but there's 5 big, big focus areas. First one is core wound reprogramming. So these big wounds that we have, like, we have to reprogram them at the subconscious level. We can talk about how afterwards, But we have to recondition these ideas we're carrying that we're not born with, that I'm defective if I'm vulnerable, or I'm weak if I'm vulnerable, or I'm gonna be trapped in the wrong relationship. So we have to recondition these really scary ideas that we may not realize are such a part of our reality because we're kind of always acting on just avoiding those things that make us feel uncomfortable. So we have to learn, hey, these wounds are here, plug them into reprogramming tools that we can talk about after. Second is we need to know our needs. And it's actually really important because a lot of dismissive avoidants will be like, "I don't really need anything from anybody," when you first ask them. But the reality is, the moment you invest in a relationship, you have needs relationship-wise. And a lot of those needs for dismissive avoidants are harmony, safety, a sense of certainty or security in a relationship. Dismissive avoidants actually really need to feel acknowledged and appreciated. Not in like grandiose ways like, "Oh, you're the best ever." but like, "Hey, I see that you did this in the relationship and I appreciate you showing up." Like, these small acknowledgments are really important. They also really need to feel empathized with, even though they're stoic and they won't often show it. They care about that and they often need to feel a sense of acceptance and support. And so, you know, if those needs are there, we make the argument that first, to heal the needs, your attachment style is more about the relationship to yourself than it is about your relationship to others. That's very secondary. So we need to learn to meet these needs in relationship to self, accept our own emotions, support ourselves in different ways, make sure that we have a sense of safety in our own environment and how we're showing up. So it's about giving to self first so that we prime our subconscious mind to be able to receive from others. And then the third part is being able to emotionally regulate. So meditation, breathwork, anything that's just really helping regulate your nervous system because all three insecure styles are insecurely attached. And then the last two parts are being able to communicate your needs and set boundaries as necessary because it's through that communication and actually being able to set boundaries that we can actually get our needs met. So those are the five branches. I'm happy to talk more about getting specific in each of those branches.
And what's the sixth bonus one?
Changing your behaviors. So the reason— Yeah, and the reason I kind of leave that out generally is that when you reprogram your core wounds, you meet your own needs and you communicate them to others, your behaviors naturally change. So, so we call it like there are protest behaviors, like dismissive avoidants will deactivate, right? And they'll like distance or stonewall or do these different things. But that's because you have core wounds and unmet needs first, and you're not communicating those things. So by working on the first 3 things first, everything else becomes a lot simpler.
Yeah, yeah. I've noticed in our journey like As I'm getting more whole, I communicate, connect more. I'm more aware of my feelings. Like I can tap in, but sometimes like I'm, I'm, I ask my wife to like, hey, my default response is like, I don't need anything. And I won't even know my feelings. I'm like, that's, but you gotta ask me again in pro because like initially I'm just gonna blow it off.
Yeah.
And, and so we're working on that. And then my wife, I can see she's a fearful avoidant. So it's like, I'm curious, in this dynamic, how did you and your husband like integrate and get healthier? Because you have the same dynamic of dismissive fearful. What did you guys do and how did you guys navigate that?
Yeah, I like to break it down in like the two sides. So when we think of relationships, I like to think of them as interdependent, right? So we have codependent, which is like I'm gonna meet all of your needs, you're gonna meet all of mine, we're never gonna meet our own, and we're gonna expect that we mind-read, right? And that's messy, and that creates a lot of resentment, and a lot of like more anxious-leaning— anxious and fearful avoidants, because they have that anxious side, are often codependent. Then we have counter-dependent, which is like, I'm going to keep distancing from anybody relying on me and from me relying on anybody else, because that's how I feel safe. And what we're looking for in a healthy, secure relationship is interdependent. Which is I'm a master at both. I know how to meet my own needs and soothe myself, and I feel safe opening up and being vulnerable and relying on somebody else. So when we break it down into those two parts, I like to start with the relationship to self because if we don't do that part right, everything else will fall apart. So relationship to self is I have to reprogram my core wounds. You know, I can't always— like, let's say for example, I have— so I did a lot of this work before meeting my husband, I have to say, but Um, let's say I still had a big abandonment wound. Um, I had needs that were kind of more in line, in alignment with that when I met him. But let's just say I still had that abandonment wound. I definitely had that in past relationships. So what would happen is you think, okay, I'm scared of being abandoned, so you might get that person to reassure you all the time. But it's like, at what point is that person always going to do that versus you have to take responsibility for the root of that wounding? And so when we get into interdependency We really want both. We want like, I can meet my own need and you can meet mine. So, so the core wounds, that's the first big thing we do is we reprogram. And there's a really powerful tool called autosuggestion that I can share later about how to actually reprogram core wounds. So these are like our pieces of relationship baggage, basically. I was trapped as a kid, I'm always gonna be trapped. Or I was betrayed, everybody's gonna betray me. And so like we project them onto everything and everybody. And honestly, it creates a tremendous amount of dysfunction. So reprogramming core wounds in relationship to self first is huge. And so we each did a lot of that work. The second part is we need to learn to meet our own needs, and that helps us self-soothe. So I knew my big needs. And it's funny because the things that I would notice in the relationship a lot is when I was more sensitive to him not meeting my needs, was always when I wasn't meeting my own needs either.
Ah, interesting.
Yeah. So things like if I was like, oh, he's not like emotionally connecting with me enough, I would look and I would be like kind of on autopilot with my own emotional routines for connection, like not listening to my own feelings or putting my feelings on the back burner or not doing my evening routine of like journaling and things that really fill my own cup. And so it's funny because we tend to kind of outsource our needs when we're not meeting them. And then we blame the other person, and it's like, okay, it's interdependency means that's part of it. You know, we want to make sure that somebody's in there and, and is emotionally connecting in the relationship, but I have to meet my needs too. So I kind of looked at him a lot, honestly, in the early stages as like a mirror. Um, like where if the things that he did affected me, I would be like, well, where am I doing these to myself? I would work on cleaning them up in myself first, and then from a more full and balanced space than going to him and asking for these things. And yeah, and he did a really good job of showing up for needs. Like, if I could— as long as I communicated well and not from criticism, he would really show up and make an effort to the point where, like, you know, 9 years later, he'll— if I walk into the room, this happens a lot, and let's say I don't say anything, I'm like, he's on a meeting or he's doing something, and I just grab a glass of water or whatever, He'll be like, "Did you say something? Did I miss you? Did I miss anything?" Because there's that care of like he used to have that sort of dismissive part. So we definitely worked on our own selves. He had to work on getting back into his body and regulating his nervous system a lot more because then we disconnect and go to our head. So he did a lot of that work along with core wounds work and then also made an effort to really learn what his needs were instead of that easy DA response of like, "I don't have needs, I'm fine." I would, and I would honestly press him a lot for that. I will say I would be like, you do have needs. Tell me your needs. I know that you have needs. And sometimes I would poke a little and eventually he got really in touch with that part of himself, which is nice. So those are really big parts there.
Yeah. And dismissive, it's like, you know, as a fellow dismissive, I was like, I was always in my thoughts. And the first time I ever went through therapy, like the therapist gave me a feelings journal and I would write out, I think, Yeah, the first like 3 times I would write out, I think, and I'd have like 2 lines. That's all the feelings I could come up with. I'm like, I'm supposed to write a whole page.
This happens so often. I, uh, we run these programs and we have people come in and I'll say like, okay, your feeling, and they'll be like, I, I think that, and they'll tell like a whole story, and I'm like, okay, that was a good story, but you still skipped over the What was your emotion? And that's a very, very common dismissive avoidant thing. And if you don't know your feelings, it's really hard to know your needs because your feelings are pointing you towards what you need.
