In this interview, Mike Zeller explores the concept of feeling like an impostor and invites listeners to imagine a version of themselves that is far greater than they currently perceive, encouraging them to act from that perspective. He discusses the balance of masculine and feminine energies, describing masculine as direct and action‑oriented and feminine as receptive and flow‑based, and explains how integrating both can improve personal and professional life. Zeller uses vivid metaphors—such as a train journey and an interstate exit ramp—to illustrate how retreat experiences create new neural pathways that act as "exit ramps" toward heart‑centered living, while acknowledging the need for ongoing habits to reinforce these pathways. He offers practical tools, including a 4‑4‑4‑4 breath meditation and muscle testing, to help individuals tap into their subconscious guidance. Through anecdotes, he shares a case study of a client who transitioned from an unfulfilling medical‑device sales job to a successful art career by following curiosity, and he emphasizes that people often have multiple, aligned pathways and purposes that manifest differently across relationships and careers. The conversation concludes with Zeller promoting his books, free neuro‑rewiring resources, and his "Rewired" retreats and virtual programs, providing contact information and encouraging listeners to follow their intuition when deciding to engage.
Chapters
What if the person that has shown up today is the real imposter and that the real you is so much freaking greater than you actually realize? And what if you lived and acted and decided from the vantage point of the much, much greater version of you? How might your life be different?
Do you find that there is I don't know if you use the language around female and male energy to find that, like, what is the role of female and male energy when it comes to some of this work that you do?
Yeah, I think there's a masculine, feminine, I would call it, we all have both and learning to dance with both. Like, I can dance with my feminine energy a lot more effectively now than I could a decade ago. And I have more appreciation and respect for it. And it's almost like feminine is flow, masculine is direct, let's go, let's, you know, kind of attack, right? Feminine is enjoy, breathe, savor, smell the roses, and it's an invitation. Masculine is more like, even, you know, biologically, penetrate. Feminine is receive. And so you need both, right? Even the, quote, manifestation, law of attraction. I'm gonna sit and receive and just attune myself. Well, then the next step, you need to go into act to activate the receiving. So we need both. If you have an unbalance in both or one or the other, you're gonna— you can create issues organizationally or in your personal life. And, and like, my wife's a very feminine creature. But to get stuff done, she needs to be able to tap into her masculine and focus. And I'm a masculine man, I need to be able to tap into my feminine to be emotionally connected, to be available, to enjoy and savor the pleasure of life. So, some of the work we actually did at the last retreat was pretty deep around the masculine and feminine. And one of the women who lost her dad at a young age, just by one of the exercises, I can see it right now, she had a beautiful shift internally and felt healed by the masculine presence of another guy in the group. And she could— what it caught for the feminine, what caused, what helped, what shifted for her Is she able to relax because she felt safe, safe in the masculine and appreciated and loved and seen in that moment? And then just shifted her internal state. And then now as she went back home, shifted, has shifted her marriage already. Like her, you know, her partner is like, wow, this is, this is cool. I don't know. I don't believe it yet because it just started. Will it stick? You know, so, you know, they're— but it's sticking so far. Okay, so her partner's believing.
So is— do you find that those changes and those like light bulb moments are pretty permanent in somebody's lives? Or not or, but also, is there intentional like habits that they need to form to continue to live into the new identity they've Yeah, great question.
So the work at a retreat, for example, I look at it like, all right, let's say, uh, say we're— it's a train and the train has left San Francisco on its way to New York. Well, let's say at the retreat we get you all the way to like Montana, and you still got to go down through Chicago and all the way back up the East Coast, but you're already on your journey. So you already have momentum. You already have a new pathway. Literally, it's like you— you know, the other metaphor is like driving down the interstate. Now there's an exit ramp, and the exit ramp is heart connection and, and powerful resonance and, and more magnetic energy and more love and more creating from love instead of emptiness or lack, right? So now you can choose to go off that ramp and go down that path, or you can go back to your old patterns. But you'll know, and you have this awareness. And, and people, you know, myself included, will still sometimes choose that old pathway, but I course correct a lot quicker and I get back on that pathway because I still got to build that new neural pathway, right, and reinforce it with habits and choices. But now I have freedom. It's like before, there was no exit ramp. You're like driving by and and there's like, all your friends are going to Disney World and you can see that there's a Disney World, but they have an exit ramp and you don't. What the heck? Now you have that exit ramp. So yeah, you still have to make, you have to step into that pathway and do work on it, but it doesn't, it feels less like work and more like positive growth.
I like, I love that analogy. For people that, you know, first of all, I'd say for anybody that's seeking to achieve, you know, some accessing a state of flow, unlocking their peak performance, accelerating their growth, you know, obviously they should go get your book. I don't know if you have more than one, but at least My Genius Within. They should, you know, find you, join some of your programs and retreats. For those that's on top of that, and for those before they get to you, is there any practical tips that you can give people out there that can start them down this journey already?
Yeah, good question. So you can, you can do some muscle testing. This is more fun to do at a retreat, but you can actually just ask your body and ask your if you tap in and you do a quick breath meditation of 4, 4, 4, 4, which is 4— take 4 seconds to breathe in, hold for 4 seconds, release for 4 seconds, leave empty for 4 seconds, and do that cycle like 2 or 3 times with your eyes closed with a little bit of meditative music in the background. And then you ask your body to speak, ask your conscious mind to relax, and ask your subconscious to speak. It will literally help you once you get agreement, once it feels safe to speak, It will literally help guide you, right? And then you're leading— like, you think of, um, the most powerful people in the world, the most successful, the most fulfilled. They put themselves generally in extraordinarily right positions. And you don't get in an extraordinarily right position if you're accidentally stumbling into it. In most cases, you have a deep intuition, you have— you use your logic brain, You use all parts of you. You know, you think of a Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was using— in his second turn at Apple, he was using all parts of himself in a much more complete way. Tony Robbins, much more complete version of himself than the version of himself in his 20s. So, um, I think that's one thing. But I think also just pay attention to clues. Like, another friend of mine. She's a very successful artist now, but 7, 8 years ago— about 9, actually it was about 10 years ago— she was in— and she was selling like, um, medical devices, very unfulfilled, making good money but very unfulfilled. Her name's Erin, and I asked her, Erin, and she was like, Mike, what should I do? And I was coaching her, uh, one day. I was like, Erin, what set you on fire? What did you love doing? What could you just what did you creatively do and enjoy when you were a kid? She said, I loved to paint. I'm like, cool, what if you just, you know, keep your job, what if you just go and explore painting for an afternoon every month and then maybe an afternoon every week and then just see how it evolves? And, you know, I like to say, I said in my book, a curiosity often often becomes a passion. A passion often, but not always, becomes a purpose. And a purpose often, but not always, becomes a life path. We only get so many life paths. Well, guess what? Erin kept exploring that. Eventually she started realizing she had some real talent in that. She eventually started making a little money on the side selling her art. Eventually she made the plunge a couple years in to quit her job. And now she makes more money and is way more fulfilled doing her art. And she's an incredible artist. She just opened up her first art gallery here in Nashville, right? But she was paying attention to the clues. Clues are all around us. We just got to attune our antenna to see them and hear them.
That's awesome. Do you think people have one pathway or one purpose that they're meant to discover?
I think we have multiple, um, pathways and purposes, but I think they can all be in alignment for different reasons and tap into different dimensions. It's kind of like, hey, you fell in love with this one person. Well, they brought out something different in you. Fall in love with this other person, they bring out something different in you. Both people could have been good for you, you know, but it was just a different pathway and purpose. They— if you chose that, you activate this a little bit more. Choose that, that person, you activate that a little bit more. So same for career and vocation. Um, I think the expression of our gifts becomes a little bit different.
Um, last question for you as we start to round up here. Uh, if you had the world's attention attention for 30 seconds, what message would you share?
What if the person that has shown up today is the real imposter and that the real you is so much freaking greater than you actually realize? And what if you lived and acted and decided from the vantage point of the much, much greater version of you? How might your life be different?
I love that. Definitely, definitely would make people think a few times over. Uh, thank you so much, Mark. This has been fantastic. How can people find you?
On all social media, I am @themikezeller, and that's Z-E-L-L-E-R, and then mikezeller.com. You can also get my 14 tools for rewiring your nervous system and your brain, and that is just at neurorewiring.com. So you can grab that free download, and also you'll get my free short ebook on neuro rewiring too.
Amazing. And in terms of your programs, you said there's something coming up soon. How can people get involved in that?
Yeah, yeah. If you're interested in Rewired, one of my programs, I have Rewired retreats and then I have the virtual programs that run twice a year each. And that, those, you can just message me on Instagram. I do have an application link so I can send you that. But you can also just reach out to me and see if it's a fit. The retreats are amazing if you're drawn to that. I literally promise it's one of the most spectacular experiences. I've led like 50 retreats and been to like 150 events. This, this special combo is my favorite that I've ever experienced, and, uh, and it's certainly the favorite that I've ever created too. But it's pretty, pretty amazing. So if drawn and curious. The other thing I would say is if you're drawn and curious, beautiful, trust that intuition. If you're not, then don't. I mean, plant medicine experiences don't call everyone, and that's okay too.
Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time, and it's just really insightful conversation. I'm sure it's gonna, you know, bring a lot of value to people out there. I appreciate you. I'm looking forward to connecting with you further. Yes, likewise, again, we'll see you soon.
