My Top 10 PR Crises of 2025

Are we all ready to start our list today? Welcome to Substack for our firsties. We're so happy to have you here. As you know, we try to hop on every Friday if we can. I try to move. I try to move these lives around, but I've been doing them at noon every Friday lately because it's been so busy. It has been. You know, I always say that September is such a busy time for a crisis, but my goodness, like, December is becoming insane. Insane. So I have to switch hats. Yesterday it was a full client crisis day. And it's interesting, they all had the same theme crisis. And then last weekend I was traveling. I was in New York City or New York City. I left early for North Carolina. Sorry. And then I was at a conference earlier in the week and now I was traveling. I think I'm sick. And so I am already feeling a little bit under the weather, which I'm not loving. And I just had to get off the phone with my son who told me he missed his flight home. He said, just in case you were worried, I wasn't on my flight. And I'm looking at the times going, what time was your mind? Like, I was so out of it. All right, so thank you for joining me. For today's we're going to discuss the start the top 10 list of PR wins and fails for 2025. The first part of the list will be today, this Friday. Then the podcast for the entire list will be released next Wednesday. And then next Friday we'll come back again and do the final list. And as always, I want your takes as well. So right now, just in the chat, go ahead and tell me like, you know, we, I've had now a couple, we've talked about it a couple times, but who do you think's on the list? Who do you want on the list? And we're doing wins and losses. So we're gonna go through 6 and 10, 6 to 10 today from both sides. Let me tell you my measurement for it. Sorry, I gotta get my mic. I get my mic here. My. The how I am basing the measurement on this is just personally from a strategic point of view and as someone who works in this day in and day out to the point where I, I mean not to, I, I don't want to have this come out as a self aggrandizing statement, but I'm really good at what I do. I can predict these things and the reason why I can predict them is because people react the same in crisis and, and the and the press reacts the same, and the public reacts the same. Like you can. You can predict or you can predict these things. They happen so often. So let me know. Hey, Chris. So let me know. Just Pamela Anderson win for going makeup less and reviving her career, entering a serious acting era. Oh, I love that. She's not on my list, but, Manny, that's a great one. That's a really, really good one. That's a great one. Okay, so let's talk about and feel free in the chat to let me know your people. You know, I'm always asking. I'm always curious. So here are the metrics. Okay, Caleb, I love that. Here are the metrics for how I voted. Of course, it's just my opinion. You know, what I say isn't necessarily how it goes. These are just my takes. So I'm looking at it from a strategic point of view. Pros and cons, wins and fails. So strategically, what happened? What was going on? I'm also looking at the reputation piece of it. I'm looking at the press, press, mentions, good press, bad press, maybe no press, limited press. And then the big metric for me, which when clients come to me and we're working through a client crisis, so often they're looking at. Sometimes it's just legal or they're looking for the technicalities of it. But reputation has a bigger play in it. Now, before. Okay, what did Caleb say? The year isn't over and she's still losing with the rumors about the Golden Globe nominations and what she did to get one. Who are we talking about? I would say Diddy fails. Okay. Erica saying Diddy. Let me go up to Sydney Sweeney. Okay, Manny, Caleb, did Sydney Sweeney. Oh, do I need to look that up? Did she get a. Did she get a Golden Globe nomination? Oh, no, I don't. She better not throw up my. Wait, Golden Globe? Non. She was snubbed. Okay, you guys will tell me. You guys will tell me. Okay. All right. Oh, gosh. I lost my train of thought. Oh, that they may have. In this list, people may have, like, legal wins, like court wins, or they might be some monetary wins, but from a reputational point of view. From a reputational point of view, there can be a greater risk. Okay, so for example, before I get to the list, this morning, I did an interview with People magazine, and they wanted to do an interview about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. Because recently, Blake Lively now has filed over a $160 million lawsuit against Justin Baldoni for monetary damages because she's claiming that she Lost. Oh, Herb, you just made my stomach turn about Mel Robbins being nominated for a gold. You've ruined my morning. That's funny. But so Blake Lively, you know, now a lawsuit against Justin Baldoni because she wants to recover $160 million. So and it was a great interview because we could both, me and the writer, the correspondent could go both go on and off the record, we would say, okay, on the record we're saying this, but off the record this. And so this is the point where you are trolling me. This is a point that I will tell you that next on December 17th, 7:00pm Eastern Time. Next Wednesday, 7:00pm, Dr. Abby Medcalf is joining us and we are doing a deep dive on Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds. And as you know, and if you new here and you haven't done it, Dr. Abby, she Ph.D. psychologist, reputation expert. She's worked with celebrities, currently works with celebrities. She's really, really good on her breakdowns with us. So she's going to bring in that kind of reputational psychological piece and then I'm going to talk about the reputational piece. So Please join us December 17th, 7pm that evening, members can register on the sub stack. And then I should also say at noon that day, I am doing a training, a part of my monthly training for members only, where every month I do like I pull a strategic response from a trending news story and I promise I'll get to the list. But the highlight this week, which now seems like ages ago, I'm looking at the rfk, the RFK Reputational challenge. So it's not so much about him, but about the tactic of strategically. Like what do you do if you work in comms or strategy or you work in leadership and the brand or the person or the leader at the center of it. At the center of it is, is either always off script or there's cover or it's just really, really difficult. Like, how do you manage that? How do you manage it? So the kickoff we're using is rfk, but I'm going to talk about the strategic piece of it, what we would do from a comms point of view. I'm also going to bring in the numbers. I'm going to show you the muck rack numbers. I'm going to do a coverage report and we're going to do this every single month. So this month's kickoff, we're looking at rfk. All right, so here we go. Oh, Louise saying, oh, the Society of Human Human Resources, they're losers. Oh, oh. And they lost A lawsuit. I didn't even know about that. I didn't even know about that. Interesting. Okay, so it's 12:10. So thank you for letting me do 10 minutes of preamble before we get to the list. All right, so here's my list. And again, you can feel free to agree, disagree. The numbers are always changing. But let's start with. And I'm only doing six through 10. And I'm going to start bottom up. So let's start with the wins. Number 10. I have South Park. South park as a brand and as a program, of course, you know, we all know that south park launched again after, you know, there were scrambles with, with Paramount. Plus there was a lot of back and forth. There are a lot of issues there, and they conquered all of it. And they came out fighting and they are skewering the White House. Oh, I forgot to mention a caveat here. I wasn't going to add any politics. So I don't have any politicians in the mix because frankly, our top 10 list would be. A list would be very heavy on the politicians because I really wanted to include Andrew Cuomo on the list, honestly, because he's the definition of a PR fail that not not only like how you fail, but then what he did when he lost the mayor race and how he responded to that. It's like a massive, massive fail. Like, he just blamed blame, blame, blame, blame, blame. Okay, so we have. We have south park. So season 28 premiering October 15th. They did have one little issue. They had one little issue with. Well, I don't want to call it like a little issue, but I think it was their second episode of the season or third episode of the season that came out. Wait, no, they didn't, they didn't debut in October. I'm sorry, that was in July. They debuted in July, but one of their early episodes included Charlie Kirk and. And then they had to go back, obviously, and not show that again and talk about it. So that was definitely a glitch for them. But overall, I mean, south park has done an amazing job. Just really, you know, they're. They've been renewed through 2027. They are on the cutting, most cutting edge of satire and they are not afraid to go there. And the reason why I put them on the list is because everyone else is. Everyone else is. And they're going there. So that's why I have number. So number 10 for the win. I gotta close out my stuff. Hold on, you guys. I'm so sorry. It's too complicated here. So south park is the first one that I have on the list. Let me get me here. Okay, here we go. All right, so South park, number 10 for loss. Yeah. Louise saying it needs to be more than 10. Yeah. And her. Yes. I'm sure I'm not the only one watching again. I'm the same way her. With South Park, I wasn't watching it as much, and now I'm definitely watching again. All right, losers, number 10 is going to be a brand, and that is Cracker Barrel. Now, the reason why I mentioned Cracker Barrel, because there is, you know, there are. There's just so many corporate fails out there. But the reason why they're the one that cracked My top 10 is because of the press that that happened. That happened around it. So it was in August, I believe that. So the company rolled out a modernized logo and a store refresh that looked like, you know, a sad home country. Refresh. Refresh. They were in revenue decline in a recent quarter, and a lot of the sales were down 4.7%. The chain was struggling, and they talked openly about wanting to win back their gas, but Erica saying, didn't they kind of win? Who was talking about Cracker Barrel before that? Erica, I respect that comment. I do. I respect you for saying that. I'll address that in a second. So what they did to stabilize it is they wanted to emphasize its Southern heritage, family road trip identity. And they had other little wins in there, like they had kids meals and targeted promotions. And also, it's understandable that they wanted to do the refresh because the old logo was a very difficult logo to translate online. You could see that kind of mustard and brown splotch, you know, from the road. But when you get into the world of digital marketing, it was a really difficult one out there. It was a. It was a difficult logo. So that part, you know, made sense. However, to do the rebrand, they hired a company and someone, a reporter for someone who works for a big network was telling me that one of their best friends worked for the company that did the rebrand and said everyone is mortified, is absolutely mortified to work there because of what happened. So, Erica, bringing up a good point that everybody started talking about Cracker Barrel. And this is true. It was a massive. It was a massive news story. Now, there's a needle that is thread, and there's a reason why Cracker Barrel is. Is in the fail column compared to maybe like an American eagle, because there's one thing to be a part of a story and everybody's Talking about the story. But it's a little bit different when everybody's talking about your bad move in the story, if that makes sense. Like, yes, you're absolutely right, they had a tremendous amount of press mention. But if you run the numbers and you run the sentiment on was predominantly negative and not positive in comparison to American Eagle where someone else took the hit like the collateral damage and then they got the stock bump. And I should, I should have looked at this ahead of time. But you know, stockwise, finance wise, I think Cracker Barrel took a big hit and it was a news story. And sometimes, my apologies, sometimes I run, I run the numbers on it and sometimes it's just anecdotal for me and I look at, you know, when the press calls, you know, depending on how big the story is. And when the Cracker Barrel story happened, I received a ton of press calls and I didn't interview with NBC. That was the only one where the timing worked out. So Cracker Barrel is my number 10. All right, number nine, win. I don't think you guys, I, I think people are not going to like this answer. I think people are not going to like this answer. But I want to know if you agree with this answer. Number nine for win. Candace Owens. Tell me what you think. I'll wait. I'll wait. Tell me what you think. Candace Owens. Manny. What? American Eagle is running away from Sydney. Sydney and hired Martha Stewart, which seems weird because she is. Is she the AE demographic? No. We'll discuss American Eagle stock up. There you go, Louise. I see it. I don't like it, but I don't disagree. All right, does anyone else have a take on Candace? Oh boy. Candace Owens. Okay, Brian jumping in. Oh, absolutely. She's got tens of thousands of people waiting on her lives. She's absolutely raised her profile even bigger with all this stuff. Chris, Complicated feelings. I get why you say when, but is she actually garnering good faith or new audience? Good question, Chris. Calum. Oh, Caleb has been dove down the Candace rabbit hole on TikTok. Candice. Caleb. I got a little wrapped up because as you all know, I am firmly in the Erica Kirk algorithm. So naturally it's going to throw me into the Candace one as well. So I'm with you, Erica. I agree. Suddenly started listening to Candice like she was a real news source. Funny, Erica. Okay. In response to air. Okay, Caleb, I gotta come back to Caleb on that one. Laura. Google search after the local controversy. Oh, thank you, Laura. Cracker Barrel stock faced significant challenges. The company reported a 5.7 decrease in revenue and a 10% drop in stock price following the backlash from the. From the logo change. Laura, thank you so much. Or. For looking at that. And that's. That's why I put Cracker Barrel on there. Like, for instance, like Campbell Soup, for instance. Is it on my list? I'll tell you that ahead of time. I just have the numbers yet about that, how that debacle came out. So thank you for that, Laura. I think Candace turned because she knows what's coming, but also everyone has forgotten about her lawsuit. Oh, Manny, which lawsuit are you referring to? Are you. Are you Mahone? The Macon lawsuit. Need to know if Erica will be on the winners or losers list. Loki. Okay, so let's talk about Candace for a moment. The reason why I have Candace on my list, reluctantly, I will say right now, I am. I am not a Candace fan. Okay, I have to share something with you guys. I have to be honest with you guys. I have to share. I'm going to reveal something that's humiliating, but it just. It's how my brain goes. And. And I. This is not an add moment that I'm going to. I'm going to lose you. I'm going to come back, but I bet some of you are going to understand this. So over the weekend, when I was traveling, when I was in North Carolina, I was down south, and I. I was. I went to Charlotte, and then from Charlotte, I. I went over to Asheville, which is beautiful, but the weather was awful. It was freezing. And when I left the Delta flight, because it was freezing in Boston, and I was like, oh, my gosh, North Carolina. Even though I knew it was gonna be cold, I got off the plane, I was like, oh. It's like I. It felt like we flew around and we were back in Boston. It was freezing, which sucked. However, but once I got down there, it's like I got into a different algorithm and I got into the fundy algorithm, like Ballerina Farms, Bates, Duggar, like influencer algorithm. And all of a sudden I started going down rabbit holes because someone reached out to me, like a marketing, digital marketing company wanted me to partner with. With one of the baits, like Carlin Bates. And. And so I started looking and all of a sudden I was down that rabbit hole. So now I'm being fed all fundy influencers, you know, like the Duggers, like all that. So when I say I understand your algorithm, my next one is kind of like going from the fundy, like, why am I here? To Candace Owens, just like you Caleb, I think it was you who said that I'm being served. Candace Owens, this is the reason why she's on my win. And some of you had already pointed this out. Oh, Drake May. Yes. Oh my gosh. You make that connection when I went down there. That's so funny. Oh, we love Drake, man, this house. But Candace Owens, you know, has been on a dip. Candace Owens has been and it's certainly on a trajectory, right. You know, with her reputation. She started off, you know, very, I mean, clearly very Republican, very mega, very into Trump, you know, and that's, you know, how she, she, you know, she came up with the, her buddy Charlie Kirk and all those other kind of right wing conservatives. And for her to be a black woman and a very, very pretty black woman and intelligent, she can be considered an authority, right? So she's going to get a lot of the, she's going to get a lot of the kind of push and zhuzh and Riz, she's got Riz, you know, behind her. So she starts peeking up there. But then she starts to lose a little revelance and she had to kind of make this decision like, where am I going to go here? And then all of a sudden Candace does this weird pivot where she's, where she, I consider her like similar to like a Billy Bush or who's another one. I can't think of off top my head where all of a sudden they real like a Megyn Kelly. Megyn Kelly. All of a sudden they realize, oh, if we talk about trending stories on the algorithm, we're going to get people and we're going to get views. The fact that Candace Owens spent so much time talking about Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively in a deep level, like you're looking at her like, girl, you don't care about any of this. Anybody could see that. Anybody. And that's where I think it revealed that she was doing it for clicks and views and money on a YouTube channel. And, and, and, and the subscriber numbers, I think it was pretty obvious. It is the same reason that Megyn Kelly does it. They do it for the same friggin reason, man. Candace went from Trump politics to Blake Lively. Deep dive. Yes, Manny, you're absolutely right. You, you're 100% correct on that. And then through all of that, she gets sued by the Macrons president of France and his wife because she's saying these outlandish crazy things like she was saying Macron's wife was a man. It's crazy. I mean, it's so conspiracy crazy. And then they sue her for. For that. They sewer. And so now she's. She's. She's struggling, so she's being sued for that. So she's still being outrageous. And then. But she's still on this Blake Justin thing. However, by going to the Blake Justin Ryan Reynolds route, she is someone because she gets insider information. Her viewer count, her new fans who didn't really know that she was a right wing. Woohoo. So her brand just went and her numbers went and her subscriptions and then the algorithm. So she figured out how to pivot to the masses. So the reason why she's on my list is because she made this pivot. I'm not saying I agree with it. I am certainly not saying I agree with her in any way, shape or form, that I love her content or follow it or any way. In any way. But there is a strategic play there that I give her credit for, which is the reason why she's on my win list. The algorithm with her right now, for her to be the enemy of Erica Kirk is brilliant. Because what is the undercurrent about Erica Kirk? People are like, just like we are. And I am. Okay, so let's go to the comments real quick. How you guys, I have to do this. Sorry, but. Oh, I love that, Manny. But I hate to say that it was smart because no one talks about the lawsuit or any of the crazy things she says. It's still smart though. You want to know why? Because so many of her new people have no idea. Have no idea who she really is or what she's all about. Candace went. Okay, so Manny. Yeah, we talked about that. Okay, I'm going to come back to you, Chris. Manny, not Ballerina Farms. I got stuck in that algorithm for weeks, right? I mean, like the algorithm. No joke. The algorithm is a thing. The fact that Molly McPherson was stuck in fundy family Trad wife algorithm says how powerful it is. So that's why Candace is on my win list. Okay, what time is it? Oh, I'm going slow on my list. I'm talking too much. Okay, loss number nine, Blue Origin. And anyone associated with Blue Origin, though. The people who got hurt the most. Katy Perry, Gayle Kang, and then Lauren Sanchez. Now she's Lauren Sanchez Bezos. But because she went from Blue Origins, the flight over to the marriage in June. June and the marriage and the wedding over in Italy got so much press that the Blue Origin flight wasn't tacked onto her in a bizarre way, who got creamed by Blue origin, in my opinion, was Gayle King. Lost a tremendous amount, a reputational currency by hopping on that flight. Oh, I didn't add them to my list and I think, you know what, I'm going to tack them in. Oh, it's still 2025. I'm going to do an adjacent real quick. CBS, CBS News. Oh, shit, am I getting ahead of myself? Do I add them to the list? Okay, I'm going to squeeze them in. They're going to be 8A CBS News and their hard, hard turn to capitulation. When I was in North Carolina and I was watching the morning news and they, and they talked about the farm bill. No, not the farm bill, but the farm subsidy that now like a bailout that Trump's, you know, that Trump is giving, oh, billions. I can't remember, like $10 billion to the farmers, you know, because, because of the tariffs, like the farming industry, the soybean industry, like it's being decimated by, by Trump's policies. And then they go back. So I was watching CBS Morning. I don't know why I always default to cbs. I do. Even though it's not my favorite morning news. But I'm watching it. They're all like fawning over it. Fawning. So CBS news is my 9A on the rise. So Gayle King, who's kind of like, eh, we don't know where she's, where she's sitting with CBS Morning. But Tony, what's his name? I always want to say Kalupa because I went to school with the Kalupa. Tony. Oh God, I can't, I can't think of his last name. Now someone's going to help me. Caleb. CBS News, having the Erica. Oh, and CBS News. Thank you. Having the Erica to Kirk Town hall because Barry Weiss took over and now they are, they are a Republican channel. They're like the Fox News of network news. I'm saying it. Tony Decouple. Thank you, Herb. Thank you, Herb. Google Hugle for doing that for me. But blue origin, so Gayle King, not great. Oprah, our adjacencies. Oprah standing there looking up at the sky crying because Gayle King is on that flight. But Katy Perry, in my opinion, took the biggest hit. Katy Perry went up in space and oh my gosh, I have to stop. My daughter Kate actually wrote me. Oh, she wrote me one word. Okay. When I asked her questions, she writes okay. Oh my gosh, Middle children. But Katy Perry, who's now dating Justin Trudeau. So he's our adjacent in Here as well. Katy Perry announcing her tour album from space and has a daisy up there for her daughter, Daisy. And then she comes down, and I don't think Orlando Bloom was there, honestly. So that would be. That would be my head, Manny. Katy Perry is getting hit left and right. Okay, here we go. Blue Origin, collapse relationship. The lawsuit about the house. That's right. And Orlando bought. And the owner claimed that he wasn't of right mind. But I learned that the whole family is shady and. And Lawsuits are their MO. He is the former CEO of 1-800-FLowers and IS. Oh, thank you, Manny, for the deep dive. Oh, my goodness. The whole family is shady and lawsuits. Okay. And the son is the husband of one of the Real Housewives, Housewives of Dallas. This is why I love this community. That was questionable at best because you could tell she was a bit racist. Everyone's a little bit racist. It's true. Every. Anyone ever see Avenue Q. The fact that they tried to make the old guy seem like he was defenseless. Elderly man. Wow, Manny, thank you for that. Wow. Remember, Katy Perry sued the nuns as well, over property. I need to add in my PowerPoint presentation of what Katy Perry should do to improve her rep. Well, you date a former head of state, Right? Justin Trudeau here. Okay, Kathy, here's my hope that the producers of CBS Sunday Morning. Oh, right. Like CBS Sunday Morning. Like, we have to protect that at all costs. All of them. Jane Paul, all of them. We have to protect 60 minutes, you guys. I was going to say kick canned it, but shite canned it. And now the morning show. And I also feel that that. That Tony Ducopel, a name I will never remember. Herb, you're going to always have to give it to me. Every time he's on that Sunday morning news program or the Sunday CBS Morning, it's always through gritted teeth. Like, that guy is struggling. So I don't know how long he's going to last because I don't know if he can stomach it. Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes. Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crime. Morocca is on there as well. Okay. All right. So thank you, guys. Yeah. So that we have. We have Blue Origin and everyone involved with the space flight. It's the Gen X in me. All I could think of was Muppets in Space. Like, Muppets in Space. It was like the same thing to me. All right. When number eight, Tatiana Schlossberg, who normally would never be on a list like this, and a lot of people don't even know who she is. I found out, having talked about the story. But the reason why I added Tatiana is because she. I mean, she's going through an absolute tragedy. I mean, she was diagnosed with cancer, leukemia, I mean, which is what Jackie O. Her grandmother, you know, died of. But I think was a different non. Like, I think Jacqueline Kennedy was not Hodgkin's. But the reason why I'm adding Tatiana on here is not just for Tatiana, because she didn't need. She wasn't in a PR crisis. She's in a life crisis, a health crisis. But she was able. In that essay that was published in the New Yorker about her health, and it was so strategically savvy in what she did. It was dropped on a Saturday. It was a Saturday. It was a Saturday just before Thanksgiving. Am I right, you guys? Am I right on that? The Saturday right before Thanksgiving, it drops the New Yorker. No one ever drops anything on a Saturday, Ever. You never do that. Oh, yeah. Oh, hello. November 22nd. It was on November 22nd, which is the anniversary of the death or the assassination of her grandfather, jfk. So that. So it was purely symbolic, you know, that timing on there. But the amount of news that it makes Saturday is, you know, is. I don't want to say dead zone, but when it comes to the press, you don't release anything on a Saturday, but it allowed, because Sunday's a big newsday, you know, obviously in the Sunday papers and stuff. It was released in time. That was a big part of the Sunday news cycle and the Sunday conversation, and then it kicked off the week. The other strategic part of it is that she was able to discuss the tragedy of the health, what it's like to be a young mother and face death. I mean, it was incredible. I mean, how she's writing about greedy, experiencing grief of your own demise and the family, and then talking about what her mother's going through. So now we've gone from Tatiana. She's moved it from her challenge and her grief to her mother's. And everyone can identify with her mother, Caroline Kennedy. Well, not identify, like, personally, but also understand Caroline Kennedy's piece of it. Her mother was murdered. Her father was murdered. Her uncle was murdered. Her brother, JFK Jr. Was killed July 1999, off the waters of Martha's Vineyard. They were looking for his plane for days. No reporters were allowed on the waters of Nantucket Sound because Ted Kennedy called the White House and Bill Clinton and said, no reporters. And there was one reporter on that water looking, you know, reporting on the search for JFK Jr this gal right here. So that story has been etched in my brain ever since. So I watch it and I track it. And so why the Tatiana Schlossberg story was a good, you know, why. Why I put it solely in the wind is because she was bifurcating her mother and her part of the Kennedy family away from the RFK side of the family. Rfk junior Health and Human Services Administrator, you know, at the Trump campaign, he's doing so much personally, it's my opinion, doing so much damage from a health perspective. You know, his Make America Healthy Again I think is anything but. But there's always been a split between the RFKs and the JFK's side of the family. Robert F. Kennedy, married to Ethel skakel. They had 12 kids together. And, you know, then he was. He was killed. But the RFK side of it in that family and Skakel, that those kids were always kind of left on their own and reckless, and they were the troublemakers. And the Skakels is also connected to Michael Skakel, who is accused and actually went to prison over the murder of Martha Moxley. And there's actually an NBC adjacent podcast that's out right now. And I think the take that this reporter's taking is that Michael Skakel didn't do it. But it represents a time that Caroline Kennedy has wanted to distance and Jackie Kennedy as well. Jacqueline Kennedy has wanted to distance her kids, Caroline and John Jr. Away from the RFKs because they're all fighting for the same Kennedy legacy. And that's my whole point to go back to. To Tatiana is because she was able to do that. In this essay, she, you know, Carolyn Caroline Kennedy, in January, January 25th, I think she went online and said, do not, do not confirm my cousin, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. He's a predator. That word as a hard, hard word. So Caroline Kennedy started it. He still got confirmed. But Tatiana Schlossberg, she severed it. She put the cleave there. Molly's Roman Empire is a Kennedy family. You damn, you got that right, Herb. Irish Catholic. You learn to revere it. And then when you live in Boston and you kind of experience all of it and you go, oy, oy, this family. Oh, thank you, Herb. About my podcast, Searching for JFK Jr. I'm morbidly waiting for the JFK Joe show to start, you guys. I can't say anything, but I can't do a lot of content on it because I'm working. I'm working kind of adjacently on it. I'LL just leave it at that. But I want to know your opinion. I want to know your opinion. Okay. So Tatiana is on my whim. Okay. Loss would go to. Continuing in the Roman Empire, as Herb pointed out, is RFK Jr. Cheryl Hines and Olivia Nuzzi. I'm putting all three of them. They are my number eight PR fail for 2025. RFK Jr. For what? We previously noted the guy. Oh, my God. And again, yes, it is my Roman Empire. I could go so deep on it. He is a bad guy. He is very, very bad. He was dating Cheryl Hines as he was trying to divorce his wife, Mary, the late Mary Kennedy. She took her life. He's a horrible person. And now he's married to Cheryl Hines. Why she would do this, ruining her life? I think she thought, oh, being with RFK Jr. This will be a good thing. Now, granted, it's given her. If we were going the metrics. She has more press, she has more awareness, more people know who she is, but not in a good way. She's not going to be hired for anything in Hollywood. An example, she was very good friends with Tig Notaro, a comedian. And. And they had a show that other people, kind of like Hollywood people or entertainment people, would tell me and talk about it, and they would say that they would listen and that they were really good friends and people liked it. So the worm is on the list. Herb, the worm in RK's brain is on the list. Yes. That's hysterical. That's very funny. Oh, my God. I remember Manny. I remember watching a documentary years ago that RFK's youngest kid made all of RFK's kids. Oh, yeah. Rory Kennedy. She does documentaries. Yeah. I have a daughter, Rory, not named after Rory Kennedy. Is the worm the winner. That's so funny. But. But this is why on the loser list. So even, like, Tig Notaro, like, dumped Cheryl Hines. And they were really, really good friends on a really popular podcast, especially with Hollywood, you know, kind of insiders. And I've always said about Cheryl Hines, she's like C plus B minus list because Curb youb Enthusiasm is so incredibly successful. And. But she's not really like an actress actress. She's. She's improv on a. You know, surrounded by incredibly talented people. She's not bad by any means, but she was good for that role. She was a good foil for Larry David. But it. But her career. Nah. And so she got tossed out. You know, they put her out there because rfk. And again, join me in the Vault. We're Going to do the training next week at 12pm because I'm reading the Olivia Nutze book and as well, Olivia Nutzy, another example and why I put her in here. I mean, usually when we have the person who's the affair partner or the digital affair partner, you know, a lot of people stand behind them and, and get in their corner and champion them and it's not happening. I'm here. RFK Jr. Like, let's. I mean, he is a worm. He's an actual worm, right? He is a worm. But because she hooked up with them and then is doing this, this book about him, it's a horrible. And then her relationship with Ryan Lizza from Politico. They were engaged, spiraled. So they're my number eight. They are all just spiraling. Cheryl Hines is a comedian that got to make television. Manny. Well, I'm actually going to delineate that a little bit more. She's. She's not even a comedian. She's improv. Like, she's improv. Who got on there? I think a winner. I think a winner. Louise. Oh, yeah. What other worm did we talk about this year? You guys make me laugh. Okay, now let's go to a win. This one is a unique one. I don't know if you guys are going to agree with it, but I have my theories on it. And it's two people. New York Post. Olivia Nutzy's nauseating memoir about. While RFK Junior Affair sells fewer than 1200 copies. Oh, is that true? Oh, my gosh. I still have to do the review on it. Oh, they. Simon Schuster gave me a copy and I have to talk about it. So thank you for that little. That. Oh, I wonder if Kate's watching me now. My daughter Kate just wrote to me. I wonder if she knows that I, I mentioned her. Okay, so here's my number seven. Let me know what you think. Nicole and Keith, I know some of you might say. What? Who cares what. Before I open my mouth, I want you guys to give me an opinion. Nicole and Keith, what do you think? Nicole and Keith. Laura, I saw another blistering. There are so many blistering reviews on Olivia Nutzi. That's why I'm including her in there because she's like the one affair partner because she lost her job, you know, because of it. And usually people rally behind them. They're dumping on her. They're dumping. Remind me on what they did. Oh, Nicole winner, Keith, loser says Caleb. Interesting. Well, the reason why I have them on the winner list is this. And I'M looking at it strictly from strategy and luck. And here's the reason why Hollywood divorces, particularly long term divorces of a list people. Nicole, without a doubt is a list. Without a doubt. Keith Urban is a list adjacent, and he's a list because he's married to Nicole. That's why. That's in my opinion, that's why he's, he's a list, but he's popular, you know, he's a popular singer. You know, people like him. But the reason why I have them on my win list is because they were able to, to navigate it. And there were affair rumors out there that Keith was hooking up with his guitar player. Caleb. I'm saying that as someone who had a Keith greatest hit CD in my car as a teenager. Oh. So, Caleb, are you turning, did you turn the worm on Keith Urban? Did you turn. So, yeah, I think Keith definitely lost fans. There's no doubt about it. But as far as a Hollywood divorce goes, these guys, they coasted. That's, that's what I'm basing it on. They coasted. Caleb. Nicole is a pillar of the LGBTQ+ community, so we will only side with her in the divorce. Manny. Oh, Nicole. I had, has had affair rumors as well. Manny. So there you go. What I said is I did, I do press on it. I was on a talk show and I, and I, and I brought it up because one of the things that I said was that it was kind of a pedestrian divorce, meaning they'd been married, I believe, for almost 20 years. That's a long time to be married. They had two daughters, you know, and Nicole Kidman, a list making really smart moves, really good product content productions out there. Keith Urban doing his thing, hustling and doing his thing. They just how they handled it from a press point of view, I thought was really, really good, which is why they're in my win of it, even if the rumors are there, you know, marriages fall apart. And also they're, you know, and Keith was in Nicole's shadow for a long time. So not easy. Chris. Well, it's not like she didn't have a pretty elaborate example of the pitfalls of a celebrity divorce. Chris, you're absolutely right. Let's compare Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman divorce to this divorce. So being a judge on American Idol doesn't make you a list yet. It almost doesn't. Herb. Right. It kind of moves you down the list a bit. I still like him. I'm just being silly. Yeah, I feel like they're being quiet. Because they want their daughters to have the possibility of a career. Yep. Herb, a judge on American Idol 2.0, the lesser version. Oh, Chris. Herb, Chris is coming for you. You guys make me laugh. You guys make me laugh. But Nicole Kidman. Oh, you guys will correct me on this or help me on this one? Was it Vogue? Vogue, Paris. Maybe that she. That she appeared? Maybe it was, like, two weeks after the divorce, her and her daughter showed up in content around Vogue, So. And again, smart. That's just smart. It's. It's just smart. So that's why they're on my. That's why they're on my win. It's not. And remember, in this list, it's not to say I love these people. We're just looking at. You know, we're just looking at, you know, how the strategy. Louise, A divorce from Tom Cruise will never go normally. That's right. Right, Louise. Because all the. All the Scientology played a role in all of that, didn't it? Okay, how much time is this? Oh, we got to get through this list. Number seven for the loser list. This was part of my interview today with People magazine. I have Justin Baldoni on the list. I have Justin Baldoni for a loser PR crisis loss. Now, it's not to say that I think he's a loser in the whole thing, and this means I think Blake Lively's a winner. No, but it's. It's like the PR loss of it all. It's the PR loss of it all. A lot of it was. Is out of his control. I will say he's smart. You know, he'd probably be higher on the list overall because he's taken such a financial hit, and he. And according to the People reporter today, we were. Like I said, we were speaking on the record and off the record. He's not working. This guy is not working. He's not doing anything at all. And even though I think reputationally he won between Blake and Ryan and Justin, I think reputationally he wins. But I said it's a different scorecard. Like, legally. Legally, he keeps losing, and financially, that's a lot. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And he's not getting work right now. So that's the reason why I put him on the PR loser list. Erica. He definitely took a huge PR hit, but I think, legally, he's in a good place. Well, but he keeps losing. Legally, that's a tough thing, I think. I think reputationally he took less of a PR head. Like the Public is more on his side. He has more public goodwill than Blake does. But. But depending on who you believe or insiders say that, you know, it's not like this guy's a saint either. He's not what Blake is painting him to be. But some people are saying he's not so great either. But I don't know, could be rumor. Could be rumor. Herb saying, I think we all have fatigue over them. Right. I agree. He had so much opportunities with this, and he made a slew bad decisions early. He didn't step away from the center of it in time. He got there eventually. But dude had a career opportunity that I don't think is there anymore. Right. I mean, it decimated his career. I agree with Baldoni being a loss. Although do you think he's going to recover his career? Let me say, I also feel like wife has been running the show because she's out for blood. From what you've been reading, he's called her the boss. Oh, his wife. His wife. Justin Baldoni's wife. I think. I think he will have a career. It would be better if he did it behind the scenes maybe, than in front of it because he does have that reputation taint to him. And that's what you don't want. You don't want that. And the loss for it for all three of them is they're all linked forever. I don't think he's losing legally. I think he reports of legal losses are just good spin on the lively side. Well, Eric, I actually, I was doing a little bit of research on it and he's not doing that well. Brian Friedman is his lawyer. And, and, and again, like in these cases, legal things just matter. Like with a technicality there, you can lose it on technicalities. It doesn't mean like you can lose a case on a technicality, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have lost the league, the, The. The case. So I think everything's weighing against Justin Baldoni. I think he's had some bad breaks on it. Definitely, legally and financially. My goodness. But reputationally, people are solidly with Justin Baldoni. I would hate for him to end up in Hallmark lifetime. Who knows? What would you do for JB PR wise? That's a great question. Really what he's doing right now. I said this in my interview with People magazine. You know, the fact that he's either voluntarily or involuntary stepped out of the limelight, it. It casts him as. As someone with dignity and grace as opposed to Blake and Ryan, who are still the bull in the china shop. You know, they're still in attack mode, so I think that helps them. So I think that's a good PR move. So if I were working with him, and I know the people who are, I've spoken to him, but not lately. It's smart. What he's doing is he's standing back. And that would be my advice to answer your question. That's a good question. Okay, so that was number seven for lost, Justin Baldoni. Oh, my timing might be good on this number six win. My answer, Chris Martin and Coldplay. They were involved in a PR crisis, as we all know. Many of you who follow me and know me well know I was very much wrapped up in the whole astronomy mess when this happened. Chris Martin and Coldplay, they were performing at Foxborough. And I found out about all this online like everyone else. And my first thought was, damn, Coldplay's here. I would have gone to that concert. Damn. But then my phone blew up. And I have never, ever had my phone blow up like it did because I have friends who ping me on things, but then I have friends who don't follow anything. And then they're writing me, like my universe of people who said, why aren't you talking about this? And I had press reach outs from every. Every press outlet, I think media outlet reached out to me to comment on it. And as this was happening, I had Novocaine in my mouth, so I couldn't speak anyway and. But I didn't want to go on, say anything because I just felt that the circle, the ring would be too close because it took place in Boston. And the two astronomy employees, that they were still at that time, they were. We were all the same age. I thought, I'm going to know people who know them. And I found out later that night I did. So I had to thread the needle on this reputationally. But Chris Martin and Coldplay, my goodness, the PR win for them was absolutely incredible because what did everyone find out that. That many people probably did not know that Coldplay was on tour. It was a world tour, and all of a sudden everybody was into Coldplay. It's incredible. It is incredible what happened to them. Manny, wasn't there something that happened at their concert before the astronomer thing? I don't know. I don't know. But after this happened. So when you think about it from press and press mention, I ran the numbers on it on Coldplay and Chris Martin. The amount of press mentions that Coldplay received in July of this year was more than they received since they first hit, you know, before, since the conscious uncoupling from Chris Martin and Gwyneth Paltrow. It was incredible. So now everyone's listening to Coldplay again. It was incredible. And also the reason why it's a win. They sidestepped it. They didn't comment on it, and they didn't have to, which was smart. It was very, very smart. All right, so my number six loss, which is going to bring us right to the top of the hour. I want to thank everyone for joining me. Wasn't this fun? We're going to do the remaining list next Friday, so I hope you join me there for that, for that conversation and come ready with all your opinions and your thoughts. Would love to have you there. Okay, my number six loss, and this one honestly could have been in the win column too, because there's a big loss, but then there's a win. I'm sorry, I have to go back to the comments for a minute before we move on from Chris Martin, Manny. I think their next album should be called Astronomer. It's very on brand. The SEO would be working with that, wouldn't it? That would be great. Okay, my number six loss. Before the Coldplay couple, we were talking about Chris Martin's breakup from Dakota. Oh, from Dakota Johnson. And I'm so sor. But has there ever been a more bland actress than Dakota Johnson? I mean, that is. Here's my brain, too. My brain. She exploded. You know, Melanie Griffith, Don Johnson's daughter. She is applesauce with a side of white milk and white toast. She is so bland and so boring. She is the most one note actress that's ever lived, in my opinion. High point. She's an honest creature, like when she. She was a part of the Ellen DeGeneres downfall. Right. So we gotta give her credit for that. But I find her to be so bland and. And she became big because of 50 shades of gray, you know, and. And I do so much work with publishers, believe it or not, you know, and so I. I know more about the industry than I really should. And, you know, that was a part of the big independent publisher, just Wade, you know, wave. And then that 50 shades of gray became huge. She was just an independent writer like so many of them are. The only reason she's huge is because she took down Ellen, full stop. Thank you, Chris, for supporting me on that one. The only memorable. Oh, Louise, I can't think of a single movie she's in. Fifty Shades of Gray. The only memorable thing. Dakota was the moment Shed did you mean that with Ellen when Ellen claimed that she wasn't invited to Dakota's birthday? I totally agree. That's her big hit. Big moment. Her episode on Good Hang with Amy Poehler is easily the funniest episode. Oh, okay. I'll give it a listen. Because maybe Dakota, what you're saying maybe Dakota Johnson, her brilliance is her dryness. So maybe I'm knocking her too much when really she's a dry genius. Okay. Little bit is seconding with me that she's a snooze. I like that she's a snooze. Dakota Johnson, next American Eagle model. You know what? Same vibe, right? Same energy. Same energy. Sydney Sweeney. I tried to watch in the Materialist. She was so wooden. Oh, I love that wooden. Love that description. Everyone else in the movie was great and it really stuck out to me. Wouldn't love that she was decent on snl, but zero Modi Chris. You know, maybe that's part of. Okay, maybe I'm overlooking her. Her brilliance, but I also don't think there's that much Louise. I was about to name a movie, but it was Bryce Dallas Howard, also Bryce Dallas Howard. I saw her doing a promo with. What's that, like some online influencer? I can't think of Marie Florio. I'm like, come on, Bryce. The sad thing is that Dakota was in the Marvel universe, which has launched so many careers. Snooze. Brenda says, thank you. Peanut butter Falcon. Elk chili was good. I don't even know what that is. Okay, all right, you guys. So thank you. So now you've gone really deep on Dakota. Okay, so it's one o'. Clock. I'm going to put number six on this for the loser. Even though it's a big reputation story. But it's a bigger legal story. But reputation. I'm going to put it here. And that's just Diddy. I have Diddy on the list. And part of the reason why he's like, not at the top of the list, I mean, he's sitting in jail. I mean, that's bad. So. But that's like a legal fail. That's like a massive legal fail. But it also was a massive PR fail for him as well. But the reason why he's not as far up on the list is because he was never that far up on the list in 2025 anyway. Way when all this was going on in 2024, he was not as powerful. And so, like, so press wise, I don't put him higher because PR wise I don't think he had that far to go, but there were a ton of press mentions about him. Clearly he was a news story. And there's a possibility for a recovery, but it's a massive PR fail because there wasn't a lot of redemption in Diddy. Okay, you guys, it's 1 o', clock, 1:01. So I'm gonna log off right now so you guys can all go about your business too, in case you guys have meetings or anything. But Diddy is my six. All right, you guys, thank you so much for joining. Oh, Brenda. Brenda has a meeting. See, we all do. What? The 50 Cent Doc. Exactly where is that? Oh, I should be adding that as well. But, you guys, that brings us right up to the hour. Thank you so much for joining me on this list. I love you guys. It is so much fun. Join me next Friday, 12:00pm we are going to round out the wrist. Top five. Surprised he didn't make the top five. Well, we have our top five. We have our people. All right, everybody, thanks so much for listening or watching. Bye for now.