PR Breakdown Live: The Royal Family

Hey there! Oh my goodness, we have people in already. Good morning. I'm a minute late because I had to— I did something very dangerous. I posted to social media. I held up my phone, recorded, and then hit, uh, and then hit send. Uh, you never want to do that, but, um, I noticed that, uh, just as I was opening up, because I was looking at the headlines in New York Times, and what was fed to me was that Darryl Hannah wrote a guest essay in the New York Times. Uh, so to me, all that says is, uh, correcting the record, that, that she is— Darryl Hannah is not pleased with her portrayal in Love Story. That is my takeaway from that. But we are not talking about that. We, you know, maybe we need to do a Love Story deep dive at some point. I think we may have to. I think we— hey, all right, everybody's coming over here. Hello. Um, I was just saying, I— do we need to do a Love Story Do we need to do a love story breakdown like a JFK, uh, Carolyn Bessette breakdown? Feeling it. But yeah, we're doing the royal family today. Uh, we're gonna do that even though the royal family is not in the news cycle. I recognize that, and that's one of the dangers, uh, in my biz, honestly. Uh, you know, you, you pick a topic, and I picked this topic 2 weeks ago Uh, and now it's like the what? No one even— no one's even talking about them because we're all consumed about what's happening, um, in the U.S. So that's one of it. But, uh, like I said, we— if you were on the live a couple weeks ago, uh, we— I was, I was breaking down what was being said about, uh, Prince Andrew. Um, you know what, I'm not seeing my live once again. Can someone tell me what's going on with Substack? I don't see me coming up on the live. Can someone let me know? Like, even Chris? I'm sorry that we're not fully organized on this. This is the second time that this has happened, that my, my Substack stream is not coming in. So I need to find out if it's coming through because it should be alive. And if, and if this doesn't work, I'm gonna have to change our lives and how we do this. Yeah, I'm not seeing the live. Shoot. Could someone just— could someone just hop onto my Substack right now and tell me, um, if it's there? Okay, so you're not coming up live on Substack. Okay, so let me, let me do this real quick, you guys. Oh, you're live on Substack. Okay, thanks, Molly. But why can't I see me live? Tech help! Angie! Angie! Um, because Substack is making all of these changes, uh, with their, uh— well, here's the thing, I'm '97 rising in culture. Yeah, I— and I have to be honest, I— here's the bummer, I may be live but I can't see the chats. Oh, Molly McPherson, here we are. Okay, you guys, hold on. To be honest, I— okay, here we are. All right, I see you, Cynthia Bryan. Okay, great, now it works. I think what it is is there's a delay. All right everybody, we are here now. Okay, welcome to our live. We are here to discuss— we're here to discuss the things that I love to talk about: why I'm right. No, I'm just kidding. Am I still on a Kristi Noem high? Maybe just a little, but okay, it wasn't that hard to predict that she was going to be gone. That wasn't that difficult, but when I dedicate a morning to knowing that, uh, Kristi Noem is 100% going to be fired, uh, and I did all my content around that, that was a lot of fun. And the other one that I feel like I kind of nailed, and again, kind of obvious, um, Prince Andrew. And this goes back all the way to 2019 when he did the Newsnight interview. That is a UK Uh, so, you know, it's BBC, right? Yeah. Um, Emily Matlis, so she was the, the journalist who interviewed him. We discussed this in our lives before, Scoop, which is on Netflix, and I believe it's on Netflix right now. You can get it now. It is an exceptional— if you're a newsy type of a person, like, I know Angie watched it, right? Christy, you're on a big Christy Noem high. Uh, but can we just do Christy Noem for one minute? Mark Wayne. Oh my gosh, he is gonna— oh my gosh, he is gonna provide so much, so much content. Oh my gosh, frying pan fire, frying pan fire. There is no doubt about that. Okay, so this is what we're going to talk about on the— but the royal family today, uh, she got fired on my birthday. Oh my gosh, happy birthday, Manny! We are giving you the gift. We are giving you the gift of Kristi Noem being fired. It had to come, right? And let's tie Kristi Noem into Prince Andrew. Let's tie it into the royal family, um, since we're there. Just so everybody knows, I can see you on, on, uh, on Substack as well. Um, I— this is something I don't want to bore you, but as a— let me make this a professional communication challenge right now, uh, or a moment, for a moment here. I spent last week— I was on the road, Mark. Speaking of Oklahoma, Mark Wayne from Oklahoma, he was an MMA fighter. One of the best thread posts I saw this morning was, uh, not the news I expected this morning, that my former plumber is now the Secretary of Homeland Security. I thought that was hysterical. Uh, former plumber took over his dad's business, but a former MMA— to what level, we don't know— fighter. So some of the clips about him already are going to be fantastic. But this is where we are from a communication point of view, and where I think and how we communicate now. So this relates to my clients and corporate comms, but it also relates to us and what we're following. Because my vault, all my community here, everyone here, all of you, we all love the same thing. We love culture. Okay, you don't have to be— you don't have to work in comms, you don't have to work in crisis management to consume culture and to understand culture. And this is also a shout out to my to my Gen Zers out there. When I was hiking on my trip last week, I was talking to my son, full Gen Z, and we were talking about, you know, Gen X. You know, we grew up rough and tumble. Like, nobody loved us, nobody was home for us, uh, nobody raised us, but we were rewarded with culture. I did a very quick post on Daryl Hannah on Love Story. One of the reasons why I love watching Love Story is it's the throwback into the '90s and tabloid culture, which ties into the royal family right now as well. So in the chat while I'm finishing my thoughts, tell me who we want to talk about. It's specifically who— what do you want to get off your chest from a royal family perspective? Who do we want to talk about? Hello from London. Good to see Gnome God from London. All right, so tell me— yes, I can see the Substack chat and I can see both chats. Tell me— there's a 15— there's a 10 to 15 second delay from YouTube and Substack. I know. That's a problem. We may need to fix this. I might send out an email to all of you guys and you let me know, because I, I think we could just do Substack once and then do this live stuff at another time, because I hate tech. And the Substack's updating all their tech, which is great, but I may have to pull off the Substack live when I do these all media ones, um, and then just— and then we'll do our Substack only ones. I might have to do that. Okay, so we have one vote right now. The best royals: Meghan Markle and Queen Diana. Okay, so we know that point of view. So let's— we're going to talk about— we have to talk about Meghan Markle, Duchess of Sussex, the Duke, uh, Harry, William, Catherine, Diana, Camilla, Charles, and then of course Andrew and Fergie. Oh my goodness, Fergie as well. So let's talk about, you know, how the crown— the fault lines of the crown. We're gonna— we're gonna talk about that. But let me finish my, my last thought when I was talking about my son is, you know, the people in my generation, the Gen X of us all. I feel like we're the raw generation, but we're so— we're unfortunate in so many ways because we have no pensions, we have nothing. Like, the baby boomers sucked the life and joy out of everything, out of us. They're living well right now, which is frankly like the Epstein scandal. That is just— just put baby boomer at the top. That's what it is. It's a baby boomer crisis. And that's why Gen Z is looking at the Epstein files going, what the hell? But, um, and Gen X So we also— that's why we have such great music too. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna stand and die on this hill. We have the best soundtrack out of any generation out there, right? So, um, but Gen X raised Gen Z. And because Gen X, we are so skeptical about everything. We were there for the tabloid '90s, we were there for the royal family tabloid. And even I was— I just posted about Daryl Hannah posting about Love Story, um, Uh, we can see it and we can read the room, which is why I love to do this. So you've already heard that he could abdicate within 6 months. Is this Prince Charles? So let's jump in. So we have a request. Shelly wants to talk about the daughters. The Eugenie had a podcast about trafficking. What? All right, now I'm gonna set the room. Blake Lively is also royal. Oh my gosh, in what circles? So let's set the room. So if I were to theme this, we're going to talk for an hour today because— and the reason why we're here at 11, thank you so much for joining me at this time. Uh, I am at noon, uh, or later on I'm doing a judging. Uh, I'm in the Public Relations Society of America and we have a judging thing that I have to do, uh, this afternoon. So thank you for changing the time. Okay, so we're going to talk about this: every crown has a fault line. And we also— millennials, okay, so Chris, you're on the cusp, you're on the cusp, so you understand internet culture. You do. You might— millennials look at it a little differently, but elder millennials, you could be cuspy with us Xers. Uh, let's look at the drivers. So we'll talk about all the key people, but let's also talk about what drives them, okay? And we could apply it to anyone in U.S. culture crisis right now. Howdy, it's 10 PM, do you know where your kids are? I got Angie said in the room, that makes me laugh. Okay, only people of a certain age will know that. Okay, so let's— and we don't want to just do like royal gossip for the sake of gossip. I'm not a, I'm not a royal gossip person, that's not what I do. But I like looking at why people do what they do. I also like to predict the drivers behind it. Which is why it was so easy to know that Christine Noem was gone after her testimony. Because she— well, one, I mean, the, the Corey Lewandowski of it all. I mean, the, the money, uh, the fact that the— she was— the, the money alone. But then in the end, she did this huge ad campaign in a Trump administration, and you knew that he wasn't going to stand for it. So she was going to be gone. But the royal family, uh, in the U.S., we do not live by a royal family, though in a way we feel like we do right now that we're living with the king. But, but we definitely follow it. We're invested in the royal family. We know it, and I'm certainly one of them. So let's look at the reasons why the royal family keeps blowing up their reputations. Okay, well, look at the good things. It doesn't— I don't want this to be a bashing. Uh, every time I talk about the royal family, um, I will always get— which, and this is hard, like, people, it doesn't matter what I say about Meghan Markle. I could say one sentence and I could say she is the best, she's the bestest of the best, and then someone will me that I'm an out-of-touch white woman who shouldn't be talking about Meghan Markle and I'm criticizing her, which I understand that too, uh, and I understand like that Meghan Markle had a challenge there. But I don't want to make this about hate for anybody, uh, we're not going to hate on people, we're going to just figure out what drives people. So let's go from Andrew to Charles to Camilla's long game to William and Catherine. Uh, I will say I am in a Reddit thread with the royals, and wow, there are a lot of people who know a lot of stuff. Cosmo headline: Palace courtiers claim King Charles will hand throne to Prince William in 12 months. All right, do we think this seems realistic? Do we think that that's realistic? I kind of feel like it is. Now, if we talk about drivers that we believe this— should we start with William? Let's just start— we'll start with, with King Charles. Um, the reason why I'm gonna believe this headline based on nothing other than my opinion on this one is because we don't hear much from him. And if we know this about the royals, right, let me— you guys let me know what you think about this— they're all about the press. If you've read about, you know, Spare, uh, Harry's book, um, even if you watch The Crown— granted, The Crown is not Uh, it's historical fiction, uh, it's historical nonfiction, but, um, it's based on a lot of public reality there. And I think it's believable and reasonable to assume that every single person within the royal family is trying to get their own press and to get favorable press. And Prince Charles, uh, who is the eldest son, likely not the favored son, as we all assume that Queen Elizabeth favored Andrew. And I guess how it all played out, it showed. Um, it seems like there's a lot of damage with Charles, definitely. Uh, and I guess I've been reading, and if I go deep in my threads, that, uh, that it seems— so we know that Harry's kind of on the outs, but that Charles and William don't have a terrific relationship, and that William could be a big driver in all these things. So Herb, hello. Considering Charles' health, it's a possibility. I kind of think this too. I think the sub-thread of the Charles narrative right now is the health, because I think we'd be hearing more from him. Now, is it smart to stay out of the headlines and the spotlight with what's going on with the brother? Yes. So he could be, um, intentionally stepping back, but this is a guy who stepped back from his mother for decades and decades and decades and decades and decades, and he's finally in his role as king, yet we don't see him. Manny, I've seen a lot of Prince Edward's kids have been featured a lot lately, specifically Lady Louise. I've seen some of that too. In Canada, we are part of the Commonwealth. Uh, yeah, so I always appreciate Canadians when they chime in because I know because you are a Commonwealth and you're part of it, you're gonna have a deeper, from a culture point of view, but also because you live it. I do wonder if we should see the end of this. I do associate— appreciate Prince William and Princess Catherine They seem honorable. It's possible that William is pushing the narrative into the press. I'm going to tell you, I kind of agree with that. That's my feeling. And anything I say doesn't mean that it's fact at all, but I'm telling you, I feel a lot of William in this as well. If the Andrew crisis is an existential threat to the monarchy, they will definitely give the crown to William. But Charles waited— and I agree with you here— Charles waited a lifetime to be king. So only if there's no really other option. Absolutely. So when we start looking at these people, let's look at human drivers. Okay, so this is what— this is what I'm looking at. I am looking at, um, I, I just got off of a call, like a client call, and I said this to this client because this is such a driver. Fear drives so many things. There's genuine fear, uh, when we talk about people who can't pay bills, whatever. Like, that's the call that I was on, more corporate, uh, before this. But also fear of, like, if you're a King Charles, there's, you know, fear of not leaving a legacy, fear of not being able to rule. Andrew, fear of losing everything, right? So fear is a driver. Greed. So fear, hiding, hiding the truth to protect the crown. Greed, monetizing the monarchy. I mean, if we could label Andrew and Fergie, my goodness, that's what they're being labeled with, is just the greed of it all. Uh, there's also narcissism. I'm always looking for narcissism when that's there. I know Meghan always gets accused of being a narcissist, specifically in UK press, Australian press. Uh, I did a post about this, and I've said this in this community before. I I will not do Meghan Markle commentary at all. I used to be asked that constantly because it does not matter what I say about her, no matter what, the headline is going to be negative. There's always going to be a negative clickbait-worthy piece to her. And unlike anyone else in the royal family, I think she takes more heat than any of them. So many people call them narcissists or call her a narcissist. I don't think Meghan Markle is a narcissist at all. I just think she's driven. I think she's incredibly driven, uh, and narcissism is really— they need to be— and, and this is why maybe she's being labeled as that, but they need to be the wounded hero. They need to be, uh, the actually the wounded in every story. They need to be the wounded. And certainly Harry and Meghan, that's been a lot of their narrative. I mean, that's been their primary key message is how wounded that they are. Uh, there's also the loyalty blindness blindness, which I think a lot of that is Charles, and he's learned that. If we look at the Diana days, like, how many of you remember the death of Diana? How many of you remember the coverage of that? I distinctly remember, uh, and some of you on here, like Angie, some of your other people on here, do you remember, uh, that the, the palace did nothing Do you remember all those flowers at Kensington Palace? Do you remember all those flowers in the palace? Remember this? I was working in crisis management before I was working in crisis management. When she died, I was training for a marathon, and I remember when I was on a long run and I was just listening to the news. 3 weeks, Manny. Is that how long it took? Was 3 weeks? Oh, so that's like this loyalty blindness that happens. We see this a lot in American politics right right now. Loyalty, blindness. And then also there's ignorance and hubris. Uh, the hubris that I see in so many— the queen bowed. Yes, the queen did bow. Yes, Angie. But there's so much hubris in all these big crises too. Gosh, we could do the royal family. We could just do the royal family in the White House. We could talk about the same thing. Um, To be fair, I think we need to start again in our commentary on Meghan Markle knowing that Buckingham Palace were trying to avoid the public looking too closely at Andrew. I'm going to agree with you on that, and I, I did a post about that. I think Meghan Markle deserves a reset. What do you guys think? Uh, I have always said— so let— well, no, hold on, I don't want to get all over the place. So let's, let's start. Can we just start with Andrew? Because right now, because we want to get through everyone, right? Let's start with Andrew real quick. So what do we think the human driver of Andrew is right now? I already mentioned a couple of them. The hubris of Andrew and how he treated people. Oh my goodness, if you think back to the Diana days and the Fergie days, uh, and I remember the Diana and, uh, Fergie and how the buddies and those two were together, it was really refreshing. And I remember that Carol, you remember that time? Um, and I just remember this, the kind of the house on days, like the, the days where they were getting such positive publicity, like everything they put into Diana marrying Charles, the bloom of the rose, let's just call it that. And those days were so good, but they were so limited in time because it turned, it turned so quickly. It really, really turned. I remember like Fergie was real, you know. And she had— and actually, back then, you know, she had a real woman's body, and, you know, she was a redhead, and she just seemed so average, right? But in a good way, in a very relatable way, uh. And then everything just kind of turned with the marriage and Princess Diana and, and Prince Charles. But Andrew, then he was Randy Andy. We saw who he dated. I always remember the soft, soft porncore Andrew. Oh my God, Angie, I know who— my Canadians my age start with a K. Oh my God, who is it? Somebody tell me. Who did he— Kiki? No. Who did he date? I know this doesn't matter, but somebody has to tell me. Who did Prince Andrew date? Her name started with a K. Remember, she was in movies. Someone will tell me. Someone will tell me. Um, but Andrew right now, Andrew's showing such dismissal and cruelty to so many people. Everyone is turning on him. I actually worry a bit he might become desperate and very isolated. Uh, Kustark, Lori, thank you, thank you. But back in the Randy Andy days, dating— thank you. Um, maybe it's just me, but Andy Andrew didn't get bad press. And remember the Falcon War? Like, he, he was, he was the war hero. He was all these things, right? The delay— now all my Kustarks are coming in. Thank you everybody for the Kustarks. Works. Um, match me on this, especially anyone in the UK or in Canada at the time. I don't remember— he was just Brandy Andy. I don't remember a lot of bad press about him. But if you look at the stuff now, a lot of people are talking that Andrew has been insufferable ever since then. Ever since then, he's been insufferable. So, um, and now we're seeing who he was this entire time. And we can believe this narrative that he was the favored son who treated people like absolute garbage. So the recap with him now, because he was tied into Epstein, uh, and it was a trade envoy, that horrible Newsnight interview that he did, which is so delicious to watch from a crisis management point of view, it is so bad. And his face is what What? Oh, so bad. So performative in the worst way. Losing— being stripped of Duke of York, um, and then the arrest which happened last month on his birthday. So what do we think is going to happen with Andrew? And of course— oh, I'm saying of course, I'm reading this. The rumors have now been revived that Andrew was the Queen's favorite because he was the love child with Porchester. What? I didn't know about this. I think they all kind of look alike, right? I feel the Queen controlled Andrew's press, Manny. I agreed with you. Parenting matters. The Queen never reined Andrew in. I completely agree. Sometimes our middles, you know, as a middle— I have a middle— they kind of do their own thing, right? But this middle was, it appeared, the favored child, and that's what led— and remember that he doesn't sweat. Oh my God, do you remember that? And then there's all these photos of him sweating. Um, I've read that it will take years for anything to actually happen legally to Andrew. Uh, but it must be incredibly uncomfortable for him. But also, quick pivot to Fergie. It's so disappointing because she does seem like a— she seems, going back on her brand, if we were to talk about her brand, she seems like a genuine person, right? Like, she seemed genuine. And then Beatrice, Eugenie, they seem like— they seem like such good girls, right? People really think Andrew outsmarted everyone, the whole family, the full staff of a thousand. Andrew. They did not know. And Andrew also became obsolete in 1982. Tell me more, Angie. Why was Andrew obsolete in '82? The marriage, you mean? Is it— you mean with Princess Diana? Um, or the youngest is usually the favorite? Yep. Well, he wasn't the middle. He was the new royal that the Queen actually got to enjoy because the other two were older and raised by their nannies. Um, I guess when you have 4 kids It gets a little, it gets a little dicey there. But, um, but the fault line for Andrew is, is entitlement and hubris, which I think— and we're now all seeing— oh, the birth of King William. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But I think Andrew probably knew. I mean, he never was going to be seriously in line anyway. But, um, the hubris of Andrew has caught up to him because now everybody is saying how he acts and what he does this and the greed of it. And Fergie just got caught up, you know. And this is what I'm going to tell you, I feel sorry for Fergie too. Do you remember when Fergie was caught in the scandal with Byron? I was gonna say Byron, he's from Texas. Was Byron his first name? The, the sucking of the toe. Do you remember that? Oh, the lack of judgment. But For Fergie, um, there's a huge gap between Charles and Andrew, yes, and Charles and Diana. But for Fergie, you almost felt like— and, and I've raised— and I've read this too— Andrew was never home, which I remember. He was in the military, but even when he was home, he wasn't home. He was always gone. And Fergie is just sitting there. Oh, Duchess of Pork, yes, remember that? I would never recover from that either, Angie. I would never— I would, I would never recover from that either. It was the sucking photos that did Fergie in. I totally agree with you. She didn't fit the mold of a royal. Didn't help that she was hated and banned by Prince Philip. Absolutely. And I remember Prince Philip at that time. And also, wasn't Fergie topless in that whole thing? Oh my gosh. But it's— it— from back at that time, now, I mean, time reveals everything, right? Um, she probably wasn't. She was probably just alone. Alone, wasn't in a marriage. Diana was doing Diana things. I think they were close and then they weren't. And she had two daughters, and I think she was alone all the time. And maybe when the Byron thing— Byron the Texan, right? Maybe when that happened, they may have been unofficially separated at that time anyway, right? And that they had an understanding, and that's why they're still together there. But she got caught up in a money jam. She got caught up. And Christine pointed out, zero judgment, Fergie grew up with poor parenting. And Fergie, Diana were both— yes, Fergie and Diana, yes, both of them struggled with the relationships with also the mothers. The mothers. Both Fergie and Diana had issues with weight, you know. Diana with her coming out and admitting to an eating disorder. And then Fergie, uh, who pointed out here, Catherine, that she did the Weight Watchers ads This word didn't even exist when she did that ad campaign, but cringe. Oh, wait, Steve Wynn. Oh yes, and then Steve Wynn was in there. Was it Johnny Bryant? Was that his name? I thought it was like Steve. Very lonely and isolated and not the brightest bulb. I see, I'm with you. I have compassion for Fergie, but I will say I had a lot more compassion for her before the Epstein files. I mean, it really shows. And also, even we're taking this away from Kristi Noem— money, money is such a driver in a crisis. Money leads, money leads to so much ruin. And I think in the case of Fergie, um, I think it's the money. I think the money is what got in the way with her, and that's why she has such poor judgment in so many different things. Um, with Fergie. Uh, Carla, as much as Fergie would love the world to think she's besties with Meghan, Meghan's only kept her distance. Yeah, Meghan and Harry and William and Catherine. Yeah, Brenda, see, you're with me on that. Like, the files give you a whole new point of view. She sold herself out, and also for Epstein. Now granted, some of it could be misinformation. I mean, we don't know, we don't know. But you gotta feel for that. She was alone. Manny's saying the press hated her. Horses were the only thing she had in common with the Queen. Oh, and the dogs, right? And people are gonna connect with you on that. And most royals thought less of her, so the poor thing had it rough back then. Yeah. Oh, was it Budgie or Boogie? Boogie the helicopter. I totally remember that. And look at it, think of it like budget, bougie, budgie. It was Budgie. Wasn't at the helicopter. I remember her press tour for the book. Oh, so bad, so bad, so bad. UK press are going after their daughters now. Yeah, so let's make the quick pivot here. Let's go to the daughters real quick. Uh, personally, uh, Beatrice and Eugenie, I always felt press-wise they were good for the brand. I do think the press, if I remember correctly— help me out, my people, fellow people around at that time— they got a little— like, the press was like— the spill-off on how bad they were with Fergie spilled a little to the daughters in terms of looks. Like, I remember when they were wearing certain fascinators. Like, where did— when did Beatrice have the horrible fascinator? Was that— no, whose wedding was that? William's? And with the eye makeup and everything. Fergie is so wasteful with money, and not necessarily for her to sell out to Epstein. She was not starving. Yeah, she, she just wanted more. We— because also when you live in those circles, you know, and that's usually what gets people in trouble, it's just it's never enough. That's the problem. It's when it's never enough. Um, branded the ugly sisters at William's wedding. Yes. Yeah, so that was their— that was— they were feel— they were getting the Fergie treatment. At that wedding, right? And the press was bad to Beatrice. Okay, thank you for confirming that with me. Uh, the dotties were— daughters were an easy mark for criticism because of the looks and the image of their folks. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But now I think, like, what do we think now if we were to take it from William's wedding where they were— and also sometimes I remember watching that wedding thinking, you have access to stylists and so many things, like like, why do you look like that? Like, why does your eyeliner look like that? I saw somewhere that there's rumblings about, um, Eugenie's husband having stayed and impregnated a girl recently. What? But that's gossip, not confirmed. Thank you for— thank you for that clarification. Um, but I appreciate that. But yeah, now there's going to be more scrutiny on the daughters, on Beatrice and Eugenie, because it also seems too that Fergie might be relying on them a lot more. Angie, I'm less forgiving of the daughters. They're also not happy about the reduced role and reduced pay. Angie, do we know that they're not happy, or are they okay kind of being out of it? I think people sympathize with the daughters now and see them as squeaky clean. Yeah, right now I think they're getting a little bit of a pass. They're getting digital scrutiny, gossip. I'm with you on that. But I think the— if we talk about traditional press, I think it's giving them a bit of a pass. What would you advise Andrew do, Molly? Do now. Thank you for the question. Is there any way back to some redemption for him? Let's put that out there. Is there a path of redemption for Andrew or Fergie right now? Uh, yeah, because I remember Eugenie visiting Harry and Meghan. I thought that was a good look when she went to California. I think that was a good look. I do. Carla, it was so bad of them. Beatrice nearly pivoted hanging out with Ed Sheeran and cutting him with a sword. She pretended to knight him with at a party. Oh, you guys and your memory. I totally remember that. But then Andrew's behavior was revealed and it all went backwards. I think everything was going in their favor. I totally agree with you on that because of the messiness of William and Harry, and those two are kind of in the middle because they're all the same age. Um, okay, thank you. I don't think there's any way back for Andrew. I think there is zero, zero way back. If for some miraculous reason all this happened when the Queen was alive, maybe we would be forced something, or someone would have been sacrificed at the altar for Andrew. But I think every— all the chickens are coming home to roost, as they say. Fergie, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. Unless Fergie chooses— what do you guys think about Fergie now? Unless Fergie chooses a very, uh, a very noble cause and willing to live on her own or do something, uh, I, I think it's gonna be tough for her too. And also, how do we know legally things aren't going to happen to Fergie? We don't know that. Hard to think Fergie in the USA, would she not be arrested? She was in Ireland last week. Her ex-boyfriend McNally's Irish. I'm gonna be in Ireland in a few weeks. Well, the girls haven't had, uh, an HRH title for a long time. I feel like they just had a semi-normal life. I remember Beatrice doing an internship in New York. Yeah, I remember that as well. They were trying to cosplay as normal, like their cousin Zara, but like Zara is a worker. I— Beatrice and Eugenie, as much as they try, I, I don't think so. Beatrice is a stepmother. I did see something with Beatrice's husband's first wife. I read a headline, I don't remember what it was. Um, the royal knockout fiasco organ— okay, so we'll get— we'll definitely get there. Uh, okay, Fergie's toast too. I, I kind of think so too. What's this? Oh, Daily Mail. Princess Beatrice smiles, group photo, Chinese spy husband charity trip. Here's the latest on Beatrice's interesting warning shot. Oh, this is interesting. Carla's giving me a Daily Mail, um, piece. I won't waste our time looking it up. I'm gonna look at it though. Princess Beatrice smiles in group photo with Labour MP's Chinese spy husband on a charity trip. You know, and a charity trip too. Yeah, so I think, I think cracks are going to show with Andrew's family, period. I think Beatrice and Eugenie are going to be collateral damage. That's what I think. Does he still have a passport? I bet he— I bet Andrew doesn't. I thought if he might flee somewhere. I bet he doesn't. Carla, keep geeking out. Fergie and the daughters are running out of time to choose a side. I know, I agree with you. So, um, Tarte's saying Fergie's a loose cannon. That was always her problem too, she was a loose cannon. So the driver for Fergie, what do you guys think? I just think it's greed right now. She just needs money. Everything she's been doing for decades has been about money. Manny says Fergie's going to leave the UK and probably go somewhere in Latin America where she will be an anomaly and probably start a new life because they won't care about her past. Oh, Latin America. But now maybe Kristi Noem can help her because now she can maybe get help by the guild. I'm calling it the Guild of Misfit Toys. Um, yeah, I think it's a bad PR look for the girls too. If I were the girls What I would be doing is, uh, a lot of nothing right now. I would be doing a lot of nothing. I would just be letting— I would be letting it be right now. That's what the girls need to do. They need to stay out of the way. Okay, so let's move on. Let's go, let's go from Fergie. Let's go to Diana. Okay, um, I'm gonna say for Diana, uh, Diana, uh you're talking about Sophie, they need to bring her in. But remember when Sophie, she was a working PR professional, she had, she had a little herself, uh, back then. Um, but let's, let's go to Diana. So Diana, if you think about her, oh my gosh, from an explosive brand, iconic brand, she is someone who will, you know, she's up in the Marilyn Monroe, iconic brand forever, right? Like when we think of one of those people. But for those of us lucky enough to be around during the media consumption days of Diana, wow. Like imagine if we had a Diana right now. Oh my God, she'd be— and also let's just say it, like Meghan has a playbook there and I think she's following up. And this is one of the mistakes I think Meghan made. Meghan and Harry are following a Princess Diana playbook, because culturally Princess Diana was so Hollywood, so U.S. culture. Remember JFK, like the whole thing. And, and she really was beloved. I mean, she was an icon in the U.S., but, you know, and she was a princess, but also she was on her way to being queen. And that was, I think, a, a miscue if we're looking at it from the outside perspective that Harry and Meghan did, is I think they followed too closely to that Diana playbook. Uh, loved your Diana was treated so badly by the press. Oh my gosh, you know, if you, if you watch Love Story with— care about Carolyn Bessette and how she was treated by the press in the '90s, so much of that— like, so Diana was 100x that. Um, Liam Neeson's wife Natasha. Okay, why do we have that in there? I want to know what you meant. Notice how Meghan copied Diana's landmine outfit. Yeah, but in fairness Meghan does always dress in whites and khakis and everything. That's— I think that has been the Meghan palette for a while. Did you see the People story about how Diana and Fergie weren't speaking when she died? Yeah, I— well, so that's my timeline. I remember Diana and Fergie being very close and then not close, I think. And that which is why Fergie went kind of off on her thing where Diana was kind of living large and, and Fergie really wasn't. But also, uh, Diana fighting with Elton John. And do you all remember when Gianni Versace was killed by Andrew Cunanan, who's originally from Minnesota, during that era? And then Diana went to Versace's funeral and she sat next to Elton John. People love those types of stories. And that's the other reason why Diana— and let's just face it, let's just call it— Diana was like peak '90s, and so much of clothes and culture, uh, back then was like— and hair and the whole thing. But if you were to match, like, I think that if we could do a through line between Carolyn Bessette Kennedy and Princess Diana, so much of their brand is timeless. Like, really, like, hasn't Diana held up, just in terms of style, how much she's held up, uh, how much she's held up. And it also— and I think this is a driver too, and I think this is what hurts Meghan. And someone on Threads, like, oh my God, they wanted to cancel me. Like, recently I got all this hate, um, because, uh, I was coming close to this without saying it, but I'll say it on this live— is that Meghan is I think Meghan has a very natural aura to her that she had when she was in Toronto. And having followed Meghan before she was with Harry, or maybe secretly with Harry, whatever, but Meghan was like her own Meghan aura. And she was a little more granola, a little more— and she was total influencer, but in a good way. Like, I really think that Meghan captured a moment in time really, really well. That, that her Tig, I thought, was brilliant. And where she could have gone in her own way and been like a Diana had, she's kind of stayed on that. But the mistake that I think she made is she just wanted to be that Diana. And in fairness to Meghan too, the royal family is going to limit her in what she can do. But that's the trouble. It's like you can't replicate that, right? So let's see, everyone is gonna an opinion on this one. Uh, I loved her, Diana. Okay, um, notice how Meghan copied that. Okay, we did that. Apparently Diana was very manipulative as well. Now we, we definitely did know this about Diana, and a lot of that came out. Uh, personally, this is just personal opinion, I think if you're an outsider and you know an entire institution is working against you, oh, who's gonna blame her? Right? Who is gonna blame her? She had— maybe there's some missteps. There's like the Martin Bashir interview, not a good interview. Like, he again, Martin Bashir was looking out for himself, and Diana needed guidance so badly. Severe mental health issues. Yeah, yeah, being Diana would have been a struggle. Uh, what— sure, but what else can H&M do? I do think H&M can do something, and actually H&M have a bit of an out right now. Uh, Fergie wanted Diana to leave with her. Believe that. Uh, Neeson, her PR is golden because of The Parent Trap movie and the rest of her career. Oh, Natasha Richardson. Okay. Um, the church head shoulder scene, do you mean Diana on Elton John? Is that what you mean? Diana showed a huge heart and it was bold. Yeah, and I think that's what comes out in Diana. Personal opinion, I think there's a genuineness in Diana. Um, Carla's saying that Diana was hated in the press initially. Public opinion was really bad. Until the revenge dress age clinic. So you mean in the, in the divorce? Because Carla, I remember in the engagement, I remember like the upshot of the skirt and everything. Um, but I talk about a woman who got a lot of press. Wow. Personality disorders, Diana and Fergie impacts her behavior a lot. Diana was too young. You know what, Diana was too young. She was 19. Think about that. A sheltered 19 working at a kindergarten. 19. She was young, married a man who was in love with someone else. Bad judgment by Philip and the Queen. You got to give one hand— on the one hand, I mean, talk about the branding bonanza with, uh, with Diana. But the problem is, um, uh, the son was doing something else. Angie. Okay, I love when Angie comes in. We're the same age. The difference with Diana and the common girl and M&M, the common girl girl is staggering. Wait, the difference with Diana is the common girl and the— so are you saying why doesn't Meghan feel genuine? Okay, so that was a question that I said, and I think this is Andrew saying too, what Diana captured and what Meghan I think captured in Toronto. And I will say this, I have a friend who lives in Toronto who periphery with Meghan in that world because Toronto's not that big, right? So people like— it's not like Meghan Markle's like there, like people in Toronto. Um, so I've heard good and bad from Toronto. I heard firsthand in Toronto nightmare stuff about Meghan, but I've also heard really positive things about Meghan as well. This is just my take. This is my personal take. I am just saying the Suits days of Meghan— and granted, Suits is not big blockbuster, it had, it had, it had legs and it was good But it's not like Meghan was A-list by any stretch, by any means. But Suits became— okay, work with me on this. No, we gotta stay on Diana, and then we're gonna come back to Meghan quickly. I'm gonna come back. But Diana, in the end, because she, because she died when she did, I think her legacy is, is going to be there for a long time. Also, what did Diana have? So, okay, Diana was a commoner, and so was M&M, but they're not the same type of commoner. You're absolutely right. You nailed that, Angie. You nailed that. There was no— um, Diana had reason to be paranoid. I totally agree with you on that. Oh, Diana shaking hands, gloves, with, with those with AIDS, transformative for people who lived during the AIDS era. When we saw Diana shaking— because AIDS back then, if you remember, everybody thought it was contagious, and, and homosexuals were being— oh my God— were being ostracized, and they were being painted with the disease and the cause of the disease and the spread of the disease. It was such an ugly, ugly time. I mean, you think about homosexuality now— oh my gosh— the '80s and the '90s and Princess Diana, my goodness. What a moment. I totally agree with you. I'm getting chills thinking about it. That was a moment when she did that. Oh my gosh, and her in the hospital and the landmines. Uh, the sleeveless black velvet dress at her engagement ball. Diana— I think Diana bridged the, the every girl to princess arch for people. I agree. Uh, where Fergie did not. I agree with that as well. Fergie almost had hard edges, right? Fergie was just too— there are too many harsh edges with Fergie where Diana softened it. But also, you know, for, you know, in defense of the Irish, you know, she had just that common Irish look where Diana was beautiful. Uh, the landmine moment was equally as jaw-dropping. It really, it really was. I mean, master, master, master, master. Um, so let's go Diana real quick. She moved the needle on AIDS. Diana was also in the same circles as a royal, so not an outsider the same way Meghan. I totally agree with you on that as well. Diana was the queen-to-be, the future queen, so she was afforded luxuries there. Also, Diana did not experience any racism whatsoever. Meghan did. Um, I didn't care anything about Diana until she extended her hand out to AIDS victims. Gay man speaking. Thank you for sharing That, thank you for sharing that. And Princess Diana opened the doors, opened the doors for AIDS victims. Yes, uh, legacy there for her. She really did change. She had courage and did social good, says Jill. She was genuine. Yeah, so it's not to say that, that Princess Diana was perfect. She wasn't. She struggled. She had struggles, uh, some, I mean, you feel for, you have empathy for, uh, and some self, you know, that she brought on herself as well. Uh, the Dodi— the Dodi of it all. I believe more— and I don't want to base it off a TV show reading— I think she just was amused more by Dodi. Dodi was money. Dodi was access. Because again, like, Diana, uh, Diana needed to stay at that level. And that's the other thing why Fergie gets an SMS, because can I move my desk now? Um, you know, when you're at that level, when is enough, right? When is enough in terms of wealth? And that's where Diana made the poor choice with, uh, with, um, with Dodi. And even not— I mean, not to bring up her death of it, but going back to her style, like, even when Diana died, right? Like, when she died, was it '98 when she died? Look at her outfit. The jeans, the blazer, the t-shirt, the glasses. Diana was iconic. Iconic. Also, no one like Charles. Yep, I agree. Yeah, that was too— no, no, no, Fergie's not Irish. I know that, but she's the pale-faced redhead look. That's what I'm saying. Um, women get such a bad rap when, when strong and smart, and I think Meghan takes too many hits, like Jackie O and Ari. I— oh, Totally agree with you on that. I totally agree with that. Okay, um, I think Fergie lost us with the toe sucking, whereas Diana played her exit with class. Yeah, a little bumpy with the divorce, but Charles— I mean, Diana was doing what Diana does. And I'm sorry, and I'm still a conspiracy theorist, when you see— what was the guy's name who Diana was— Charles Hewitt. I mean, come on. Right? I know in the Spencer lineage there's red hair and all that other stuff, but oh, the Charles Hewitt— I mean, he looks exactly like Harry. I'm not saying I believe in it. Maybe I am, I don't know. She was known as the People's Princess for humanitarian work. Absolutely. Okay, so I think, yeah, Dodie was, was safety, which, you know what, frankly, a lot of women do. A lot of divorced women A lot of women make choices for safety, and why would Diana be any different? Why hasn't that caught on? So sad. Yes, that's right, James Hewitt. Yep. Um, and don't you think Diana just wanted to be happy? The Diana spin is so strong right now. And that's— he also— it's okay. Thank you, Christine, for telling— for agreeing with me about Harry. Um, but Diana, I mean She's a legacy, iconic forever. And the royal family still has to deal with that in terms of how they treated her. So let's now go on. Oh geez, oh my God, it's Diana. It's 11:53. Let's go, let's go on to Meghan and Harry. Okay, let's go on to Meghan and Harry. This is what I was saying about Meghan. Here's on my on the record with Meghan, because I was saying this about her in Toronto. Um, I think that in Toronto, based on what I was hearing from people in Toronto, kind of people in the circle You can go both ways, and I know this too because I get people leak to me all the time. People love to blab about people, and people love to say that people suck and they're horrible and all this other stuff. Uh, so it's so easy to hate on Meghan Markle. But where Meghan Markle in the Venn diagram of Meghan and Diana— where they meet in the Venn diagram is, I think, Meghan in her Tig Toronto days. Because Meghan, I think, was, was like— Tig was Meghan. That wasn't influenced by— I mean, it could have been influenced by their influencer, but Tig was her. And I remember being very early on the Meghan, uh, I wouldn't call it bandwagon, but I was watching her and I really admired what she was doing. She— because she had style, she's beautiful, uh, and, and she was nailing her own aura and brand and nailed it. But where I think she went off is now by hooking up with Harry Still, I don't know. It paid off well for her. It came through a lot of it. Uh, Meghan was C or B-list at best. Yeah, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say Meghan was high C. Before Harry, no one knew who Meghan Markle was unless you watched Suits or you're familiar with the Tig. But I'm gonna put her a C, high C, high C. Um, uh, so, but then she had Harry, and then we have all the, you know, all the people chatting about, oh, you know, was she setting up just to get a royal? Was she trying to find people in the UK, someone to date? I think it's reasonable to assume that Mary— that Meghan wanted to elevate her brand because she was a C+. She wanted to be B. She wanted to be A. So what do you do? You do what everybody does in Hollywood and what celebrities do, and if they connect with people and they want to be set up with people— I mean, my God, that's happened in decades for Hollywood. Um, so then she gets Harry. Okay, fine. I immediately remembered though Uh, you want to do— Joe wants to do Meghan's PR. Pretty sure I could do better. Joe, I am with you. I wanted to do Meghan's PR since she shut down the Tig. I wanted to do it as well. Here's the misstep that Harry and Meghan made, I think. I think Harry was also given a pass, kind of almost in an Andrew sense. You know, he's just the spare. Spares can be a little more reckless. He was just your average kid, right? Like, so not brilliant by any means. Serves in the military, a lot like Andrew. I think the press on him was good because he was Diana's son. Diana had a great relationship with William and Harry, so I think William and Harry had great press. We— he had some dings. The, uh, the German SS uniform would be a bad one, uh, so he definitely— but he was always kind of like, oh, Harry, you know, making mistakes. Like, oh, Harry 'Harry did this.' Um, and Harry always seemed like very young and immature to me. Uh, and, and too— it also, personal opinion, I think just too immature for Meghan. I think Meghan Markle— Meghan Markle's older. I think she's a year and a half older. She just seemed too mature for Harry. But Harry brings it up because he's a prince, right? Um, I'm not sure it's easy with Harry. He's traumatized, weak, and probably a handful. She elevated herself, but good for her. Everything does in that world. But I also— I think Meghan elevated herself as a royal, but I think Meghan was just more elevated, smarter, more reserved just as a person. I think she was just more elevated than Harry. Um, Meghan— okay, Meghan lacks empathy and sincerity that Diana embodied. Meghan may have— may have empathy and sincerity, but Meghan can't channel it. I think that's her— I think that's her challenge. Megan, like, when I watch— like, I watched Megan on Netflix, her Christmas special. I had to force myself to do it. I wanted to turn it off. I found it so frustrating. I love homey shows, homey tech shows. I went to Magnolia last week. I was down there. I'm not— not that I had to be the Magnolia brand all in, but I love those homey shows. Meghan is just shy of insufferable to me when she does those things. And here's the reason why. This is why I think she's off. And you guys tell me. Let me say this caveat: Meghan, I— absolute racism for her, absolute the royal family did her in, absolutely she was up against a war against the royal family versus Meghan. No one's doing her favors. I'm saying that right from the, from the, uh, offset. Press killing there. Negative all the way. But the mistake that I personally think Megan made is she lost who she was, you know, like what she was about. She was like an earthy, crunchy granola, high-end influencer, and it was a cool brand. But now she's like Williams-Sonoma, and she's trying so hard, I think, to be Martha Stewart that it's, it's painful. There's only one Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart is an— is an— can be an annoying perfectionist because it's her brand. But when you try to emulate Martha Stewart, it doesn't work. Bethenny Frankel's trying to do the same thing. Rachel Hollis— I don't know if anyone's following Rachel Hollis. They're all trying to be Martha, but there's only one Martha. And Martha's a very— Martha has hard edges. That works for Megan. Meghan needs to be a little more common. Like, we want Meghan— because that's the other thing, Meghan acts like this elevated girl, but she grew up— a friend of mine, his daughters went to high school with Meghan. She had a single mom, you know, she was just an average girl. That's what I want for Meghan. Sunshine Sachs not doing a good job advising H&M. I totally agree. Meghan and Harry. Okay, we're gonna have to do an extra 15 minutes, you guys. I didn't time this well. I didn't time this. I feel like MM would have a much better shot at competing with Goop than Martha. She's trying to be a little Goopy because those two paired up, Gwyneth and Meghan. But I'm agreeing with you, Meghan needed to go back to a little crunchy, earthy crunchy, because that's what Gwyneth is. A little— and, and I think it's even okay for Meghan to be a little obnoxious, kind of how Gwyneth Paltrow is a works a little. But Meghan is calculating, phony. She is loving this Andrew blow-off. Now, Andrew— so smart Meghan and Harry, they're finally listening to someone, uh, or their instincts. Like, they're lying low, which they need to because they're, they're in recovery time. Christine, Meghan lost herself, makes me sad. And you're saying that I can— as a Canadian, right? I agree with that. I think it's a protective front to fight the headlines, forcing the sense she belongs. Yes, you want to— we all want to do PR for Meghan. We all do. You know, Meghan in a home-style Netflix show, I love it. Do it all day. I love Meghan the influencer. I love it. But as ever, is so pristine and so perfect. I want Meghan to fall between Fergie and Diana in a way, but, but because she's not mentally challenged, because she, she grew up with a very strong mom and at the time a dad, even though they're divorced. Um, you know, we don't have like eating disorders and all that other stuff that, you know— Meghan really could have been the elevated everyday common girl, but elevated, right? What about the doctor showing her an amputee and she won't see her father? It's tough. We can't judge people on their families. I'm not going to because we don't know. Her family seems a little insufferable too. So, um, Meghan right now— I don't dislike Meghan. She just seems a little bit smug, like the cat caught the canary. I kind of agree with you. It's not real. Oh, I love this. It's not achievable reality. Absolutely. Every— when I think of Meghan Markle, this is what I think when they film her. Hey Greg, hi, thanks for joining. Greg thought it was at noon, it's at 11. Everything she does is so delicate, you know, when she puts things out, like she acts like she does this all day in the kitchen. I love to cook. Greg knows I love every fancy kitchen gadget there is. But she's so perfection. She needs to be more relatable to elevated moms. I don't want to do her PR. You don't? Do you remember that dramatic weird curtsy? Oh, did she do the annoying prep before the meeting? Oh, remember when she was sitting down with Harry about the curtsy? Oh, that was cringe. Family of origin issues makes me compassionate. Me as well, right? And I think it's fair. I think it's fair. Can't we be both for Meghan? Can't we like Meghan but also be annoyed by her as well, or question everything she does? If I were Meghan, I would not see her father. Absolute loose cannon. And also Meghan, like, walking down the aisle with Charles— oh, and the coloring! Oh, the coloring of her wedding, fabulous. Um, Carla, she reads too many headlines. She needs to relax and let us in more. I agree. It's curated to get the world to accept her. It's like she's pretending to fit an expectation. It's not working great. You know what it is? I agree with you. She is putting herself elevated here, probably because she feels she's in Hollywood. She feels that she needs to— she's trying to— here's the other thing she's doing. She's using the measuring— she's using the wrong measuring stick. Meghan is measuring herself with Oprah, Michelle Obama. She's measuring herself up here when really she should be down here and be totally okay with that. You can be royal and still be here. You can be, you can be. I think you can be there. And if she were just— if we could just see a little bit more of the mess, I have a Netflix special. Have your kitchen just be a little less pristine, or tell me like, you know what, this is how my mom did it growing up, this is what my mom taught me, you know, something like that. Megan's father hurt her a lot. Yeah, and she's got that nutty sister. We shouldn't judge, we didn't have to live I think Harry is zero support. He's too needy. Oh, I was gonna say Harry I think is supportive, but he can't support a lot because think of Harry as— I mean, think of like, when I think of Harry, I think of Harry in snapshots. I think of him walking behind the coffin, like, so I think he's been stunted since his mother's funeral in a way. A little bit reckless as a teenager. But I think part of him is stunted, you know. And you have to be. And also, you grew up a royal. Do you know how entitled you are if you grow up a royal? Bring back the messy bun. I agree that Molly should be advising Meghan. I think we could all advise Meghan. I think we all should, because there, there is no doubt there is something there. But every time I get an as ever email, I just go, no, I don't like the perfection, Meghan. Angie: MM needs to pick a lane. She's not a working royal, so define yourself accepting that. I totally agree. Like, she wants the royal title, but I remember— do you guys remember this? And I know you remember this. Remember when they came up with the Baby Sussex and the first Sussex website, which frankly nailed the branding? I mean, I thought it was kind of cool, but they were monetizing the royal name. It's like Christy Noem. You can't do that. And the royal family went, uh, no. But I think what they did is they got ahead, they got over their skis. They thought, this is our future. They just went blind faith and just said, it's gonna work, we're gonna make millions. Um, Nigella Lawson, she'd be so much more interesting. I agree, Manny. A little messier, right? Very traumatic for her. The royals put the emphasis on supporting William as a future king. I even dislike As Ever. I don't like As Ever too. And remember too, she said that As Ever was the name all along. How many branding and trademark mishaps have they, have they had? Her loss is always with them. I think William got a lot more support. I agree with you. I agree. So Harry and Meghan, what do they do, you guys? What, what, what do Harry and Meghan do? What do they do now? Um, I think they have to keep doing what they're doing, but now, like, you know, in a crisis, when we're looking at brands and we look at tracking people— so I just said this too in my training last week, or my talks last week— crisis, a crisis is terrifying, especially if it's a digital one, right? When everybody's hating on you, uh, someone who's been there, it's, it's hard. But every crisis is an opportunity, and there's always moments of reset you know, there's always resets moments. Andrew has a reset moment. Fergie. But there's a really, really scary— Harry and Meghan. Harry. Yeah, Harry and Meghan have a reset moment right now. If I were Harry and Meghan right now, I would get out of all the people— I should— I would spend time looking at what the public is saying about them. Heck, go put in an AI, for God's sakes. Say, hey AI, go in and read the last 5 years of social media, because the public I think people give the public too much grief, but I think— and I know this from my own community— the public can sometimes be the wisest counsel out there because the public tells it like it is. So yeah, I agree, Christine. I think this is a big reset opportunity for them because of Andrew. I think they're going to get a little bit of grace, even though I won't feel like it, but I think reasonable people now are going to give them— people give them grace. And I would like Meghan just to step in. Oh, my connection. I lost my connection. Am I going? Oh, it might even be too that I'm going to time out soon. Harry should focus on service, bringing Meghan to— Meg should focus on building as ever and find her own acts of service. Yeah, that's what— that, you know what, that's the other thing that's missing. Let's just call it like it is. Meghan and Harry don't have acts of service. They show up at charity charity events. Well, there's Invictus, obviously, but they show up as special headlines, um, and they kind of show up for opportunities. But actual acts of service would be great, because Harry also— Harry needs something to do. When you don't have anything to do and you're idle, and then, and then you're just watching your, your wife build her empire, So here's a good question: will William and Harry ever reconcile? Lauren says no. If they commit to only doing good, then the stories will on them be good. I don't think Harry and Meghan will ever get a free— a fair break, honestly. There's always going to be negativity on them that they're just going to be stuck with. But I, I do think there's a path forward for them. Windsor, going back to Elizabeth, I love his father. George VI, Elizabeth II, I think George VI, and her grandfather George, Diana's father, all had fierce tempers. Yes, they did. Meghan did a lot in Canada, big cause with women who were victimized. You're right, and you're in Canada. I remember that about her as well. She was very local. Harry had awful press with Invictus recently. Oh, has he? I didn't know that. H&M helping during the wildfires. Yeah, you know what though, Maybe I'm being a hater on this one, but Harry— because I was watching the wildfires, because I was watching it from a disaster management point of view— Harry and Meghan, I didn't like that coming down from Montecito. I felt it was a little opportunistic. I, I didn't love it. I know that's like they're never going to win, but I don't know, I'm just saying as a crisis manager, when I saw them, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, Harry and Meghan, no, no, no, no. If it was in your neighborhood, like Jen Garner Jen Garner got the press she deserved. It was in her neighborhood. But I, I didn't love Harry and Meghan coming in with that. Also, Louise saying Harry and Meghan won't reconcile public, uh, publicly. Do you think maybe when King Charles— or maybe not. I don't think Meghan wants it. Okay, well, let's quickly then go, because we just have 5 more minutes. Let's go to William and Catherine now. Um, the wildfires were disastrous. They went and took space in massive crisis. Meghan did a lot of good for causes in Canada when she worked hard and lived there before she met Harry. She was more normal before she met Harry. That's a good— that's a good line to end on with Mary, or Meghan, right now, because I agree on that. I totally agree. So let's go to William and Catherine. So like I said, I am not willingly in a, in a, in a Reddit thread with royals. It gets fed to me all the time, maybe because I read it, obviously. Um, here's the, um, Um, you are living in a bubble. Limited info here. Harry had awful press in Jordan also. He lied, misunderstood aid route. Oh, okay. Yeah, I remember that, but I don't remember enough of it. Yeah, when he got— he got caught up in something as well too. So let's go to William and Catherine. The, the undercurrent that I don't see in traditional media, or tabloidy media on this because I think Catherine's being protected. I think Catherine's being protected by Kensington Palace, but I also think her cancer protected her. And I think Catherine helped out the royal family. Do you remember going back to March of last year with Catherine disappearing and all that, and the bad job that the royal family did? Um, Oh my God, Sage, Harry and Meghan remind me of Suzanne Somers. That is so meta, but that is so right. So funny. Um, yes, okay, so here's the— here's the subcurrents that I'm— the subthreads about William, and you brought this up here. Temper, that's starting to bleed out a little. It's starting to bleed out. Also, what haunted Princess Diana, that was out in the open. About eating. That's the sub-thread about Catherine right now. That's what everybody's talking about is her health, but also her weight and lack of it, that she doesn't look healthy, uh, and that they think that there's a lot of COVID there because there's so much photoshopping, which is understandable for anyone in the royal family. I'm only saying what I read on Reddit. Everything is true on Reddit, right? Uh, but there's a lot of side-by-side photos that they want to show her as a healthy— that they're a healthy, happy couple. Because the future of the monarchy was— is in these two. Um, but there's, there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people who love William and Catherine. There's no doubt about it. They have their lovers, they're people who love them, but they don't have as many detractors as Harry and Meghan. But I think there's people who are genuinely concerned about Catherine. I, I think that's happening. Would you guys agree? 'Her brand has been very successful, so what's the problem?' Are we talking about Meghan? Um, I don't know. We're also hearing though, like, how successful her brand is. I don't know. Uh, we all— we— Meghan, you know, all Meghan needs to do is just make a tweak. That's all she needs to do. Because I think— you know what the other thing with Meghan? I think America wants to love Meghan, frankly. She's one of us. I think Americans want to love her, but I think the royal family and the press gets in the way of that. But also Meghan and Harry get in the way of it themselves. Horrible job managing Catherine and cancer. I worry an eating disorder was familiar for women. Oh yes, that's, that's the word I was going after— underweight. Get your timeline right, it was 2024 that Catherine announced her cancer diagnosis. So many names, dates wrong in this post. Okay, why bother? Okay, um, so we are all extrapolating from memory here and we're talking about opinions. Um, there's been some feeling that Catherine gets brought out to look frail, sad, and raise her popularity. Really? Um, young and fear of cancer metastasizing. Um, what do we think about her brand? I personally, I always thought she had a great one. Uh, the sporty Catherine. Um, her mother— they did her mother a little dirty in, in docu-series and everything. But, uh, I— she just seems like a, just a reasonable girl. Um, she's not cut from the same Diana cloth, but there's more strength there, I think. I don't know, I kind of follow— could be a conspiracy, but you know, the diagnosis and the Rose and William and whatever. Because remember, William grew up very entitled, and he grew up with Prince— with Diana and Charles as as the parenting. I think he got a lot of love from Diana, and I think there's a lot of good qualities in, in William. But I think William gets so much of a pass for so long because he was just kind of this shy kid. I don't know how long will the press— it seems like he's protected by the press. Is it just me? I agree that she's thin, she eats far less than average and have to exercise It's huge self-discipline. Catherine was taught to be quiet by the royals so she doesn't get into trouble, which she abides by, right? I think she does a good job being a royal. I think she does a really good job being a royal. Kindness and comments, please. We're all doing our best. I totally agree. No one's— this is not a hate community. You need to read Celeb Richie. It's literally with daily royal headlines and timelines. Um, so I think, I think the brand People Magazine is running a story about Catherine's favorite restaurant food. Oh, okay, so Angie's saying People Magazine today running a story about her favorite restaurant food. You guys, that's a tell. That's a tell that Kensington Palace is worried about how she looks and the appearance and what we're talking about, and she's spotting it. That is direct framing. William's lack of natural charisma of his brother. He needs a partner to give the outgoing energy he misses. Catherine seems unable to inhabit the high-profile role. She's his press fave but not by the people. You know what, Melissa, you know, it's a really good point that you're bringing up. Do you remember the days of Harry and, and Harry and Catherine and William? That, that, that was a good, that was a good branding reputation days for those three. For that, Jen. Uh, spinning in people is a good move, Angie. Yeah, I agree with you. Uh, extremely entitled. I worry it was conditional love from Diana and Charles. I think Catherine has a lot of power in the family. They rely on how much people love her. I agree with you, Christine. Catherine's branding has been on point since the beginning— the normal girl even from a rich background— and now she's transitioned to the beautiful future queen. Yeah, I mean, I think Catherine is I don't think Catherine is a, is a cost causer. In other words, she's not costing reputation negativity, like causing problems for the royal family at all. She's doing a lot of work. This is what I think about Catherine. She's doing a lot of heavy lifting. That's what I think. I was through, um, I was through Kate's stuff. Cancer disappearance was tied to Thomas Kingston's death. Thomas Kingston and stuff. I know. Let's just say, let's just call it like this. At least that's how I call it. It was a very murky, murky, murky, murky time for the royal family. I, I can't— no one knows for sure what they were covering, but they were covering. There is no doubt whether it's for their marriage or if it was an extremely harsh cancer journey for Catherine. I don't know, but there were machinations going on. We cannot dispute that. We cannot dispute that at all. Okay, um, and then William, uh, I remember reading that Catherine was being treated for a severe life-threatening eating disorder and not cancer. I read that too. Oh my gosh, because back at that time, it was last March, I was doing a lot of press. I was doing too— oh God, I, I, I regret it, but because I stood— I, I was doing a lot of commentary on the royal family and how much they were were botching it, because really it was such a bad job. Holy moly, it was a bad job. Uh, and so I was getting a lot of press requests and I was doing it. At the time I was writing for Forbes, so they wanted me to write an article about Catherine. So I just— I think I got forced into it, actually. But, um, I never knew the truth of the matter, but the only truth I knew, which was my truth, and my truth was there was cover-up, but we just don't know what they were covering. Do you ever read the royal family polling? I haven't in a while. I've seen it, Angie. Why was my comment removed? All I said was that the names and dates— I don't know. I'm not removing con— I'm not removing comments, so it's not me. It could be automatic because it removes, uh, if the, if the commentary is too negative, it will remove it automatically. The days of Harry, William, and Catherine. Harry said William helped a lot, then lied and said only Meghan helped. Too much factual hypocrisy. I agree that she was being treated for stomach issues caused by the eating. Yeah, do you remember? Oh, I don't want to go too deep in it because I don't want to get too negative in the muck and mire, but yeah, there's a lot of people, experts, talking about like Crohn's disease and the stomach of it all. Oh my gosh, it's all coming back to me. It's all coming back to me now. Um, yeah, so future for William. So clearly William is the face of the monarchy. Catherine has to be at his side. Uh, their kids, you know, it seems like they're doing really, really well with their kids. Their kids seem just in a good way, just average in a good way. The rumors that William got violent with Catherine— that's right, those were the rumors, and that's why she was missing so long. But that complicated it, right? Rumors were fed because Kensington Palace said the royal family was saying nothing. That's what happens when you say nothing. And then they want to blame the press for the rumor. Remember, they came out, everybody's blaming the press and the public for their speculation. Remember that? The public got lectured for the speculation. You can't blame the public for speculation when you don't fill it with something. Camilla, yeah, homewrecker who is now far more appreciated. Uh, a little bit more appreciated, wouldn't you say? People leaving hate comments and complaining about them being they could just not watch if it bothers them that much. I kind of agree with that. All right, you guys, um, let's do the final wrap on this. Now someone's coming in with Q Stark. Yes, should we go back to the beginning? Will Q Stark bring us all the way back to the beginning? Let's go back to the beginning. Um, uh, if we were to rank everybody and how they're all doing, I think we talked about a lot of— there were moments of and there were flashes of light and there were things I'd never do again, but then they always seemed right. And that's how we know Molly's the best. Oh my gosh. Well, Angie, on that note, you guys are the best because I always love chatting with you guys and getting your intel and your thoughts and your research and your opinion because it helps me form my opinions as well. Uh, nature abhors a vacuum. That is so true. Uh, all right, um, The Royals have outdated PR advice sometimes, but they're catching up with it, certainly, as we saw with King Charles' statement about Andrew. So let's, let's end where we began with Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. He is, I think, a case study in hubris, greed, bad behavior catching up to you, entitled behavior catching up to you, uh, that extended to the Epstein files. The UK is doing a much better job going after people associated with the Epstein files than the U.S., certainly. So Andrew has his big comeuppance. I think we all agree Fergie brought a lot of this on herself. There's a lot of greed there, but a lot of compassion for Fergie too about how difficult it would be to be not only married to Andrew but in that royal family in her capacity. It's like she was just cast aside. Uh, Beatrice and Eugenie, I think we all agree Um, they've had ups and downs in terms of the press being fair to them, not fair to them. Now they gotta lay low because they're— and they'll probably get a lot of collateral damage, don't you think, because of the parents? So I think we have to kind of feel for them as well. Um, and then we moved over to Diana. We all agreed that a bit of an icon, wouldn't we say? And the fact that her style— that we— that I was, I think, dressed in a Diana outfit last week when I was traveling. She's at icon status. It's not that she's perfect. She had her challenges. She had, uh, she had problems as well. But maybe the only blueprint we see with Meghan is what it's like to go up against the royal family. That's tough. And then back to Harry and Meghan. I think we all like Harry and Meghan, right? Are we all there? Uh, we all like them. We all root for them. We all want them to do well. But we can all spot the missteps along the way. We all want Meghan to be a little messier, a little more real, kind of de-elevate herself. Just— I— if she doesn't— if I'll watch her Netflix shows, but just mess up your kitchen a little, right? Just be a little more— be Toronto Meghan. That's actually the brand. That's what we should do, say be Toronto Meghan. Uh, Harry— I think we all have a heart for Harry. We care about Harry. Harry needs to a purpose. Harry needs— he's in his wife's shadow right now. I think he really needs to find a purpose. I feel sorry for Harry, actually. I feel sorry for him. And that's where we are. I think we did a great job, right? Are we all there? Everyone, thank you so much for joining me and even having this conversation. Uh, it's so hard to come up with timely topics. I mean, Prince Andrew, Andrew Mountbatten, is such an old story. But then again, the royal family, that's a timeless story. So many lessons to be learned All right everyone, I'm going to sign off for now, but before I do, make sure you go in Substack in my PR Breakdown channel. We have chats coming up. I have Dr. Abby— that's members only. We love Dr. Abby. Uh, Dr. Abby's coming back. Uh, she's gonna be, I believe, next Wednesday night. She will be here. We're gonna deep dive from a therapist point of view. Uh, so we have Dr. Abby coming. Or also our next monthly training, we are diving deep on influencers. Tony Robbins, Mel Robbins, uh, oh, oh, um, oh my gosh, I don't have my notes in front of me. Jay Shetty, who the New York Times covered. Jay Shetty, Peter Attia— I gotta figure out exactly how to pronounce his last name. He's finally gone from CBS. But can we talk about influencers? Uh, let's talk about who we like and respect, and we'll get through that in about 3 minutes, and then let's talk about the problems with them. And I am coming with my opinions, and I want you to come with your opinions as well. And then also we have our April scheduled and other things there, but there will be more. Um, but thanks everybody, it was fun. Thanks for staying a little bit extra as well. That was a lot of fun. Have a great Friday everyone, and, uh, we'll see you soon.