Dr. Anurag Singh: Is Reversing Aging Possible? The Mitochondria Solution

This word mitochondria is becoming buzzworthy these days. Most people are learning about it through functional medicine and obviously online. But for our listeners who really just want to know, why should we care about these powerhouse cells?

In many ways, it's like the battery, it's the motor that keeps us running. So every time we have a lack of clarity while we are thinking, or we have trouble, you know, moving around, or we feel fatigued at the end of the day, it's really, that's the core issue. Mitochondria are giving us signals that they're not in a good state and that happen. Mitochondrial science is sort of getting a new leg because what they're seeing is that actually a lot of metabolic conditions that are tied to aging, whether it be chronic heart diseases, cognitive decline, or even things like muscle issues like frailties or opinions, they all are now seems like the central focal point starts with lighting. And so essentially, I mean, think of them. If you don't have battery in your cell phone, you won't be able to talk to anybody. You won't be able to call. Exactly what's happening inside ourselves.

The following is an operation podcast production. Welcome Dr. Anurag Singh. I'm so grateful. Welcome to Rooted in Wellness. You're from Switzerland. I'm such a fan of your work. Thank you for being here.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

So before we dive into all of the greatness that you, you know, with your work, this podcast is really all about ancient wisdom in our modern world and really how we can more rooted in our health, in ourself, but also in our life and this inner wisdom that we have to heal. So I wanted to start off this episode and really have you share three things that make you feel extremely rooted in your health and in your life and why.

So to start off, I think it's really the social structure around me, right? So the family, friends, it's very important to at the end of the day come back to a very secure kind of family environment. So I think that's pretty much my number one reason. My daughter, my wife and my parents sort of exist in that ecosystem. So that to me is the number one kind of safety net that is rooted in my health and sort of spirituality kind of well being concept. The second is really some of things I grew, I grew up in India and I learned a lot of things from my parents. For example, fasting. For example, fasting once, once a week or you know, not eating too, too late before you, you know, you hit the bed and yeah, sleep Habits is another one. You know, wake up early, get your, make your bed, make sure you're ready for the day, and, and you sleep and get your good sleep. You know, do not stretch it too late in the evening to sleep. So I would say that's pretty much from where I grew up, kind of all the habits that were ingrained in me. And the third is, for me is just getting enough physical activity. I've done 20 years, I've studied people who are sedentary versus those who are very athletic. And that research is just not for studying, but also to applying it on myself. And I see how big an importance just moving around has on your whole body and your metabolic health. So that's pretty much the three things I have as my North Star of health and wellness.

So I love that because you literally are talking about what the inspiration for this podcast was, so merging these ancient rituals. So you being Indian, obviously I feel like family and community and social network is just such a powerful thing from India. And even, you know, I talk often about when I return to the ashram, the essence of healing is around being in community with other people. And then of course you added in the component around not having a sedentary lifestyle and everything that you know about muscle composition and stuff like that, which is now being validified by science. Right. So I think that this is the exact merging of ancient and modern that I crave. All right, so on the other side of this coin, you know, a lot of people have these daily habits that they're not even noticing or uprooting them. So for a lot of people, especially here in la, we've got this checklist of things that we need to do to be healthy. And often those checklists, because we're not dropping into them, they're not even nourishing us anymore. They might be the source of their inflammation or their lack of unhappiness. So for you, I want to shed light on the opposite side. What are three things that cause you to feel uprooted? And do you notice when that happens?

Yeah. So for me, the one thing that I think has probably will all learn down the road as we all age, One thing that I feel has a big impact on my health and wellness is this two month screen. In my life, if I'm working out on the laptop or a computer, I'm using a screen all the time to communicate with folks, whether for job or with family. And I see that how that is not just changing me. And I don't sleep well if I'm working Too late on a screen or looking at my cell phone screen, the blue light, that's what causes. So that for me is the number one problem. The second is just a busy life trying to balance the intense work. I just hear echo. So maybe we can cut that out so that, that the second part is really not getting enough time to do, you know, enough exercise in a day. And sometimes I'm just like a weekend warrior kind of situation. Too much travel, you know, jet lag, traveling between U S and here. And, and so that I, I feel the body is not fully rested and not fully recharged sometimes. And. And third would be. Probably be. Yeah, I would say. I, I like to cook a lot of food that is farm fresh. So coming straight from the farm to the table. And sometimes, you know, again with the busy life, we take shortcuts. So whatever's in the fridge, you kind of put it on the table. So those would be the three sort of things that I wish I could correct and bring more.

I really love bringing this up because one, I think a lot of people will feel guilt, you know, if they're not in alignment with what makes them feel good anymore. But I think when I speak with so many experts like yourself, it's this learning that happens of what it feels like when you feel optimized and then knowing the things that you have to do often that are quite simple. Optimizing your sleep, getting off of your phone earlier at night, we're all guilty of it. But these simple foundational truths that we can do to optimize the way that we show up and feel every single day. It's not always about looking for these external sources to add into our life. And lucky you. Farm to table. What a dream. All right, well, today, you know, I want to dive into all things mitochondria and everything to do with timeline, nutrition and the cutting edge science that you really have access to on cellular health and how that can transform the way that we age. But I'm curious, like, how did you get into such a specific field? You know, you understand, I've heard you speak around food is medicine, but what led you directly into this path?

So it's, you know, I've been very lucky with amazing mentors. So I started my. Grew up in India, did a lot of my initial medical training in India's top med schools there. And the patients I was seeing were, you know, a lot of diabetics, a lot of issues with frailty, a lot of hypertension, things that probably a preventive approach could, could you know, solve much early on if that kind of education and nutrition was hardly taught in medical schools. Right. I mean, that's one element that is missing in the curriculum of most modern medical teaching. And then I went to the US because I realized I was, my inclination was more to be a physician scientist to ask some of those questions. And there I was introduced through again a lot of top professors and, and in the university I trained in the US where actually one of my colleagues was a naturopath and he always was working on these amazing compounds, natural compounds from pineapple. He once was working in a compound from the stem of pineapple. That's the part most people throw out. They eat the fruit and most of the enzymes, the good enzymes are in the stem. And we started studying it and we saw these amazing benefits for kids with asthma or older adults who had bronchitis, COPD like issues. And that's what kind of made me think that, gosh, the preventive approach and the rate at which society is aging, that we won't be ready as a more medical society to be able to see all these tsunami of chronic conditions unless you kind of went a bit earlier and started looking at what was in our diet and things like that. So yeah, so 20 years almost looking at gut microbiome, compound and different superfoods that can have really like pharmacological effects and health benefits that are quite amazing.

I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our amazing sponsor Timeline Nutrition and to share one of their products that I believe to be a game changer, which is Mitopure. Why is Mitopure so important? To me, it all comes comes down to health span. Sure, living longer is great, but what's the point if you can't enjoy those extra years? I want to live to be 90 years old and still be active and living life to the fullest. And that's where Mitopure comes in. Mitopure is the first product to offer a precise dose of Urolithin A, a powerful postbiotic that nearly is impossible to get from diet alone. Urolithin A removes damaged mitochondria that make you feel old and tired and recycles them into new healthy ones. It's like giving your cellular energy generators a much needed upgrade. After just a few months of taking two softgels daily, I noticed significant improvements in my energy levels. I feel stronger, more resilient and less inflamed. All crucial aspects of a healthier aging routine. Timeline is offering 10% off your first order of Mitopure head to timelinenutrition.com mona and use code Mona to save. Remember, it's not just about adding years to your life, but life to your years. Again, that's timelinenutrition.com mona and use code monatosave. What a blessing. Hey, I always think it's amazing when you look back to see how the path was created for you and the people that come into your life because otherwise the medical field here and certainly becoming a doctor in the western world would have lent you down a more prescriptive type of approach to healing and medicine. Right. Do you think that your influence from India, like all of the things that are trending now in wellness, just happened to be these incredible ayurvedic healing substances? Were you influenced by that at all? Do you remember a lot of things from growing up, maybe in an Indian household?

I think part of that is growing up. But again, if I look at class of hundred folks that graduated out of med school, probably two are really doing good medical research. The rest are, you know, doing what, you know, the medical training teachers use to kind of just give medicines when people have symptoms. Right. So. So I would say there's an element of your upbringing. So as you said, all the natural therapies that if I had a cold or, or a problem, a GI issue, it was all natural. It was, you know, with ginger for cold or, or turmeric or, or other things, herbs for, for upset stomachs. Right. So. So that still needs to be looked even bit more. I think there's an awakening happening and I'm very happy to see that. But the second is really asking is doing the deep science dive, a lot.

Of these natural therapies, what would the impact be, right. If all of these eastern trained doctors, natural, therapeutic doctors, came to the world and met all the scientists and western doctors. Like, I just imagine a world where the integration just happens and I hope that that's the future. And it seems like we're heading that way. So I just, I love hearing from medical trained doctors like you who just have that philosophy. So, okay, this is what led your journey. Now when we think about getting into this loophole, thankfully this word mitochondria is becoming buzzworthy these days. Ian gave me my favorite teacher which says, I love my mitochondria. And I think most people are catching on to what this is and they see it coming up. They're learning about it through functional medicine and obviously. But for our listeners who really just want to know, why should we care about these powerhouse cells?

Yeah. So that's the one thing people study in school textbook. The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Well, in many ways, it's like the battery. It's the motor that keeps us running. So every time we have a lack of clarity while we are thinking or we have trouble, you know, moving around, or we feel fatigued at the end of the day, it's really. That's the core issue. The mitochondria are giving us signals that, you know, they're. They're not in a good state. And. And that happens. So today, mitochondrial science is sort of getting a new leg. Because what they're seeing is that actually a lot of metabolic conditions that are tied to aging, whether it be chronic heart diseases, cognitive decline, or even things like we were talking about muscle issues like frailty and sarcopenia, they are all are now. Seems like the central focal point starts with poor mitochondrial health. And so essentially, I mean, think of them. If you don't have battery in your cell phone, you won't be able to talk to anybody. You won't be able to call your family. And that's exactly what's happening inside our cells. They are these batteries that need to a, recharge or B, need to be replaced or need to. You need to take the faulty batteries out and replace them with new ones to get that energy currency going. And that's what's happening.

Amazing analogy. Because our cell phone shuts down and we will stop the world to get that fixed and get a new phone right away. And yet here we are. A lot of us learned about mitochondria from a very young age. And when we start to notice these symptoms, there's not much that we do. We just succumb to aging or we succumb to the way that we're feeling instead of just understanding the way that our body functions. So let's start off by just diving in. There was a landmark study on the drivers of good health and longev and the hallmarks of really healthy aging. So can you describe the importance of what that looks like with your work, how that's connected to your work and I guess mitochondrial dysfunction?

Sure. So this is a landmark study that you were describing from Kroemer, Agito Kromer, who's a very famous scientist here in Europe and France, and they called it the hallmarks of aging. Now, these are interconnected, different biological pathways linked to nutrient sensing, linked to sort of metabolic health, linked to also epigenetic alterations. By that, I mean how the environment is stressing on your Genes, also the genetic component, how those things like telomeres are shortening with aging, et cetera, and then how the organelles are talking to each other and at the center. And it was at that time described as one of the hallmarks of aging was mitochondrial dysfunction. There have been new hallmarks added, like chronic inflammation, which is sort of this idea of inflammaging, that as we are getting older and older, our bodies are getting more inflamed. There's also this concept of microbial microbiome dysfunction. So our microbiome is moving from healthy to an unhealthy sort of trajectory. But I do believe that at the center and connecting actually all these hallmarks is mitochondrial dysfunction. And if you can correct these dysfunction, you can't really change your genomic. You can't really do much about changing your genomic footprint. Right. So you can't change your genes. Yes, you can do something about your environment and change your genetics. But I do think that having a direct effect on mitochondrial health and improving it can have a big influence on all these biological hallmarks of aging.

Okay, so if there's things that we can do to influence this, then when we think about aging and a declining mitochondrial health, what are some things that we can do? So I know that you've studied fasting quite a bit. People are understanding the power of autophagy and mitophagy. So maybe let's break that down. So what is mitophagy and why it's important to longevity, but also mitochondrial health?

Sure. So let's introduce autophagy first and then I'll introduce mitophagy. So autophagy is sort of self renewable of the whole cellular machinery. So fasting is seen as one of the biggest autophagy inducers because you're giving your cellular system a break. It can take out all the waste products from the cell, much like a garbage truck will show every week to your home, take out the trash. And that's sort of the autophagy process. And autophagy can be very specific. So if it's specific to the mitochondria, that's when we call it mitophagy, which really means taking out as we all ate. So when we are young and healthy, there's always a very good balance between healthy and unhealthy mitochondria and organs or cells like the skeletal muscle or the neurons, or our heart cells, which have thousands of mitochondria at a given point, they always have this balance, you know, working perfect symphony. But as we are Aging, this balance shifts more towards having higher number of unhealthy mitochondria. And at the same time, this process of autophagy, mitophagy is slowing down because the body is just not able, the cells are not able to clean out the faulty mitochondria and the waste out. And so that builds up, the trash just builds up and there's no garbage truck showing up to pick the trash out. And so that's the concept of mitophagy. And exercise and fasting are two well known modalities that can actually activate autophagy and mitophagy.

And so for some of us, like I just imagine us living in this really toxic world, we're exposed to so many toxins in our food, the environment, the water, and also the stress levels that, that we have. Would this impact mitophagy for all of us differently?

Yes. Sleep, we have, people have studied the effect of fast food and stress different things in mitochondria. Mitochondria, as I mentioned, are really the central pillar of your metabolic health. So they are linked to things like how you absorb protein, they're linked to how you regulate sleep hormones, they're linked to even collagen production. And so, and we are finding now even they're linked to good immunity. So they, they are really, you know, how do I say, they're the great power grid that powers the whole ecosystem.

That's exactly what I'm thinking of. Like I feel like you're describing just this resiliency of our body that exists within us. And it's like this circuit board of this power, this light within us will continue to dim. And it sounds like it dims at a faster rate as we age if we're not addressing or mitochondria. Does that sound right?

Yeah, that is absolutely right. And we've taken a look at folks who are doing things right, who are training for half marathons at age of 70 versus those who are following the normal trajectory of being sedentary. And the answer always, when we look in the muscles or the immune cells, is really always mitochondria.

Incredible. Yeah. It's funny, I say this a lot. I've never worked with so many people today who are doing all of the right things on the outside. Right, that CH checklist of healthy living protocols. But their internal state, like when I attune to their energy, if we drop into meditation or energetic work, it's almost like they're wired on the inside. Right. It's like there's no coherence at all within the body. And I can imagine that that would. Would impact your mitochondrial health also.

Yeah, absolutely.

So let's bring this back, then, in terms of the role of longevity. So we talk a lot about nutrition in this. How do our diets play a major role in our health? But in this case, the connection that you found to postbiotics, not prebiotics, not probiotics, but postbiotics.

Yeah. So what? Well, we started with this idea of disrupting how science was being done in the nutrition space. A lot of times people were blending multivitamins, minerals, and even probiotics that were emerging 15, 20 years back as a big buzzword. But really, science was very lacking. And so we started by looking into some of the super foods that we, for example, nuts and berries and pomegranates. And we went around the world. I mean, this is 15 years of a journey where we sourced pomegranates from Spain, from Azerbaijan, from India. Really, to Steve, even the pomegranates from different places would have the same bioactive beneficial nutrients inside them. And what we found, at least when it came to some of these superfoods, like pomegranate, berries, and nuts, was they had a common active, which was. It was just like an antioxidant, a polyphenol. If, you know, in the chemistry field, instead of calling it antioxidant, we call it polyphenol. These are complex organic molecules that are existing. And a lot of times people are not getting exposed to it because they're not eating it, but also because, for example, the pomegranate, most people eat the red arrows, but they throw away the white stuff that holds the arrows. And the good stuff is actually in these white layers hold arrows. So what we found was that we started looking into these antioxidant polyphenols that are called eleutannins. And we found that actually it was not these molecules, but actually the conversion by the gut microbiome into even simpler molecules called postbiotics that initially were taught as waste products of the metabolism. But when we started studying it, we saw these remarkable benefits of this postbiotic family called urolithins. And the main one in humans that exists is something called urolutein A. We also were looking at different populations around the world. French, Germans, Americans, Canadians. And we found that not everybody had this molecule. So the French had about 1 in 3 French healthy adults had it. 1 in 10Americans had it. So there's only 10, 12% Americans who had it from the diet. And so that led to another 10 years of research on this molecule.

One in 10 actually had it. Unreal. And what an incredible job. Were you traveling around the world also to source?

Yeah, we were sourcing all kinds of pomegranates and juicing them, trying to study how. And a lot of times these just pure pomegranate juice had remarkable effects in rodent models. But again if you look in human trials, randomized trials, these effects are mixed and I think it's really the gut, the influence of the gut microbiome and how you absorb the nutrients that influences this and that's the led to the field of postbiotics.

It's funny, pomegranate juice, I think it had it its rise a while back but I can imagine like how much pomegranate juice would you have to drink to get the impact of Urlithin A. It was so sweet.

Yeah. So I. So again you have to be one of those lucky ones that can make that has the right gut flora. I don't have it. I've tested myself multiple times. So you'll have to drink around six glasses of pure pomegranate juice to get what's equivalent to in a pill or a sachet that is commercially available. And then as you said you, if you drink that much juice you're getting 30 grams plus of sugar.

It's like a metabolic disaster.

Another attracting benefit.

And what about this test then? How is it, is it already available test that we could see for carry or not?

So it's under development. So it's. If your listeners are interested they can take part in a clinical study looking for the link. And so it's a test that I invented which is basically a very simple test. The kid comes to your home, you drink a pure glass of well it's a commercial congregate juice. You drink it and you prick your finger and spot a few drops of blood and we can tell you if you're a natural producer or not and what levels your body can make urolitinae. And then you take a direct supplement to see the difference in absorption or levels you can see. So for a lot of people it's like that.

Got it. Okay. So we've got a big bulk of the population who doesn't even have the gut microbiome for urolithin A. Even if they're optimizing eating pomegranate seeds, drinking their pomegranate juice, they're not going to see get the same impact. So I'm assuming then when we're thinking about like a Diet, I can imagine we need to optimize the environment for urolithin A. Right. Optimizing gut health as well. Do the same rules apply with urolithin A? Do we wanna make sure that we're eating a high polyphenol diet, nutrient density, lots of hydration. I'm just thinking the things that I speak to with my clients, proper hydration, proper sleep.

Yeah. Food first is always the first approach. Right. If you can take right amount of fiber in your diet, if you can eat fermented foods that are giving your microbiome the diversity and. Absolutely. And then the berries and nuts and pomegranates are giving you the exposure to the dietary phenolics that are going to get converted. We see still, even if we've done randomized trials where we give the perfect diet and in a bowl or in a glass to people, we take that 10%, we can actually make them 40%, 30. 40%. But there's still the 60, 70% that just don't have. They're not. They're like me. They probably took a lot of antibiotics growing up. And again, coming from India, that's rampant early on in life. And so I guess that kind of shapes your gut microbiome a lot. What, what more medicine is doing as well.

Yeah. And you know, what we're learning is that we can reverse a lot of this, hopefully. So I love that you said that. A doctor that says food first. Can you highlight just specific foods that have shown historically to boost mitochondrial health?

Yeah. So a lot of you said nuts, seeds, pomegranates. Yeah. A lot of antioxidants. Any, any berries, you know, all the anthocyanins and all the antioxidants rich foods are known to have a beneficial effect on mitochondria. Lot of. Let's say there is a big trend towards a ketogenic diet. This is also well known to have effects on. So you kind of switching the fuel that your mitochondria are using from glucose to fat and then that's a good thing for the mitochondria to do this switch of the fuel. So these are some of the things that, that, yeah, are known to have an impact.

And I have to ask, do you follow a ketogenic diet?

I tried. I tried. It's. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. And I've also tried some of these keto master products that kind of. You don't have to follow it, but you can get the same benefits. They're tough on the gi System.

So yeah, same with me. Okay, so you went up this incredible path. You found the best pomegranate seeds. So let's enter timeline nutrition. Now I've been taking timeline consistently I would say now for about six months. And I'm going in, I'm using a DEXA scan and yes, I'm focusing obviously on resistance training, optimizing my hormones and stuff like that. But Dr. Singh, I've actually noticed there's an increase in my muscle mass. So can we talk about the benefits that you've seen are clinical trials to muscle health specifically?

Sure. So most of our trials, the, the, let's say the first series trials, we focused a lot on older adults because aging was that stressor. As we were talking on mitochondria and, and what we saw just about them, if you get, if you compare to all our studies are randomized placebo control studies. And when comparing to the placebo folks of the same sedentary folks that I was telling you that have problems at mitochondrial level, if you took the same folks, if you, without changing their physical activity or their diet, if they started taking URL tonate mitopure supplementation for, for prolonged periods of times, it's not a magic pill. It's not like, you know, you take it for a few days and you, you'll get the effect. So a month in you start seeing the faulty mitochondria getting cleaned in and replaced by new or healthy, more energetic mitochondria that show up. That translates if we have done longer studies of two to four months of supplementation where folks who are either older and we have done more near studies and even younger, middle aged, 40, 50 year olds where we see that we see about a 10 to 12% increase in muscle strength improvement without really changing their physical activity.

Without changing physical activity, you saw an increase by 10 to 12%. Wow.

And we go very deep. So we actually take what is, we do take chunks of muscle or we get some blood draws and we look at how the immune cells are for example, looking and we look at the mitochondria. So at a very cellular level, we see the whole rewiring happening in about a month to two months and these folks have more energy. So if you put them on a exercise test like an ergometer and you test them to fatigue, they just go longer. So they go longer, like 20% longer doing the same exercise at the same intensity compared to the colleagues who are on us, for example, a placebo intervention. So these are the, really the third thing we see very Consistently in all our randomized trials is inflammation going down. So it's really like. And I think there's a very deep connection between how your body is inflamed versus how good and bad your mitochondria are. So I think if the mitochondria are bad, they. They become what I call leaky mitochondria. So a lot of the components start trickling into our body, and. And that's what causes inflammation. And so we see a very dampening of the inflammatory response.

It just sounds bad. Leaky mitochondria. It's funny, as you're speaking, I stopped running for a long time just with aging. I started getting sore joints. I was dealing with some gut inflammation. But hearing you speak a couple weeks ago, I ended up going for a run on a treadmill, and I was shocked. So I ran a full 30 minutes at six, which is what I used to run at. After not running for a long time, my mind was blown. But I never. I mean, it definitely could be my mitochondria now that I've been taking this consistently. So I'll have to do a check. And I'm excited to do my labs again to see my inflammatory levels too, because really, I tried to cut out just a lot of the excess in terms of supplementation that I was taking. And I'm really trying to focus on this just resiliency of my body. And the way that you're talking about, if there's nothing else that's changing in these clinical trials that you're doing, with the exception of the addition of something to enhance mitochondrial support, this is just. I'm just so. I'm fascinated by this because you're just optimizing the function of your body at a cellular level within every single cell, right?

Yeah, I think that's. You hit it on. It's really the resiliency of your cells. And I think this, the way I see mitochondria and cellular health is the foundation of good health that a lot of folks don't think about, don't see it, so they don't believe it, but they focus on the whole body. And, oh, now I have fatigue, so I need to do something about it. But if. If your foundation of your house, you know, or your body is. Is good, then, you know, it won't be shaky to. To a storm or to. To anything that comes as from a body perspective along the way.

It's beautiful. Optimize the foundation. Okay, so when we think about muscle loss, we're thinking about people who are Increasing their muscle health. What I'm thinking about now in the US GLP1 agonists are all the talk, it's all the rage. And a lot of the feedback in the functional medicine light is the concerns around muscle loss in the population. So could urolithin A be helpful for that group?

Yeah, I think it will certainly be helpful. We are embarking in randomized trials in that direction. But if you think about, well first, these are great. Probably one of the most successful modern medicine drugs that have ever been created. And they were created for a certain niche of patient population which is obese people or diabetics. You know the first benefit was really as an anti diabetic drug for these medicines and they work by burning fat and well and they also suppress the appetite, sort of center in the brain and delay gas for everything. So they, they had in 12 months you're, you're burning not just fat, but you're also burning a lot of your muscle. That is probably echoing to losing the muscle you would lose in 10 to 15 years of the aging trajectory. So it's, it's a very fast shift in your metabolic health. And that's what worries me. And it doesn't worry me as much for younger folks who have that resiliency that, that you and I were talking about, their mitochondria can recover, their cells can recover. But it's really the older population, the 50 plus, the 60 plus that are overweight that have this stressor of aging and metabolic health. And then you give them GLP1 and that induces tremendous shifts in metabolic pattern. And that's where I think not just URL tonight, but good dietary counseling that you need high protein, you need resistance exercise to boost that muscle. And then I think the third pillar could be what are other strategies for your mitochondrial quality and energetics can you take. And that's where I think urolutein A fits in.

It's fascinating because I think that where a lot of people get stuck and with western medicine it's a symptomatic approach. So there's one symptom that's out of whack. We're going to give you one supplement or one prescription medication without looking at the ecosystem that is impacted by it. And I think for a lot of the people listening like, you know, even if it's 5, 10, 15, 20 pounds, whatever it is, the weight loss aspect is so intriguing. People have always wanted the pill, right? Like just what's the pill that I can take to make this easier but I want Everyone to really just think about the longevity of all of this. Because even if you're healthy, Moving into your 40s, your 50s, beyond muscle loss or even worse, sarcopenia is real. And do you want to be in your 70s with posture and thriving without a walker or a cane or not? And then is it really worth it? Right. Optimize the foundation. So in your studies then if we know that we can activate GLP1 agonists also through different modalities, like any studies around that, that you've shown with, with mitochondria.

Yeah. So GLP1 is a natural peptide. Right. So it's a, it's actually made in the body. And a lot of times in overweight obese individuals or individuals with a lot of gun issues, your body, you know, does not make enough. That's why these medicines and, and certainly probiotics, things like Akkermansia, you know, there are studies showing Akramania is a natural GLP one kind of agonist. And there, there are things like berberine that have very similar effects on, on, on, on metabolic health and, and how you burn fat versus muscle and then neurolyten A. I mean if you're lowering, if your body can make GLP1, that's actually a sign that you're sort of your gut microbiome also has gone out for a toss and your gut health is not optimal. And I always see your LIN A as the perfect output. If you have good gut health, if you have good gut health, you're having, you, you're gonna make urolatin A. If you don't have good gut health, you're not gonna make. And so that, that, that's where I see a deep relationship between GLP1 metabolic health and UR status. So this is a study we're actually running right now with National Institute of Aging where they're looking at overweight pre diabetic individuals and really seeing the effects on things like insulin resistance. GLP1, Incretin and Cretin is another similar.

Okay, I'm curious then. So for everyone listening, then, optimizing your mitochondrial health using a product like mitopure, berberine, Akkermansia and a high fiber, high variety of a polyphenol type of a diet could have tremendous impact on your gut health. Correct. Okay, so can you share any, you know, new science, you mentioned a new study that you're doing. But what about urolithin A and our immune system?

Yes, I'm a, and for many years, as I was mentioning, I've been intrigued by this relationship between faulty dysfunctional mitochondria in the immune system. And it turns out in that this is a, a growing field. You'll hear a lot more in the next five, this ten year time frame. It's a field called immune metabolism. So mitochondria are just not important to move, to think and for our hearts to beat. They're also absolutely key, their health is absolutely key to how our immune system behaves. And we've all gone through in the last five years with almost a perfect storm in terms of, you know, the, the COVID pandemic and how that changed our lifestyles and, and also our immune system and how we think about immunity. And so what we have been looking at what we call is immune aging. And so around 50, you know, there's an organ actually called thymus. And thymus is the organ where all our immune cells are kind of educated. These are T cells that we call because they're educated in the thymus. And as we age, we start losing these very youthful T cells and they start looking very exhausted. And that's the reason why a lot of our, actually my 60 plus population can't respond very good to vaccines. That's also a reason why folks 60 plus get more higher incidence of cancer because these youthful energetic T cells that are relying on good mitochondria, they're kind of becoming fatigued. And so we have seen, and we've just finished a randomized trial where we see that giving URL 10 a supplementation can kind of rejuvenate these youthful immune cells, these fatigued immune cells back to looking like, you know, they're as good as they were in our 20s and 30s. And that means they fight the viruses and bacteria better and they keep us protecting from foreign invaders to our body.

Immune aging, what an incredible concept. And it just makes sense, right? If our immune system is optimized, we're getting sick less, there's less inflammation to our body, we're running at a higher, more optimal state. So this is the time of year I have two little kids, you have kids too. So a lot of people are looking for immune support. Right? A lot of people consider that the fall and the winter months or maybe with a change in season. So how would you consider immune support then with mitochondrial and is that something that's beneficial? Like, you know, instead of the change in season, looking at taking extra vitamin C, can we say, you know, optimize your mitochondrial health?

Yeah, I would actually place that as the first pillar. You know, we talked about foundation vitamin C as much as you know, it's known to have protect for common cold and all these kind of flu like things. We still don't know enough. How does vitamin C absorb it? All told, take a gram of vitamin C, we don't know if even 10% of that is absorbed or where it goes into immune cells or not.

And it's got to be different for everyone also.

Yeah. And so I think the, I do believe the foundation this, the immune cells is good. They will absorb better. So they will absorb probably more vitamin C better or vitamin D. In fact, I think vitamin D is much better for, for, for your immune system than perhaps vitamin C is. So I think that's how I see as the second pillar. And then there are things like exercise is known to help boost immune levels to moderate size. And we, we know that. So I think it's really a three pronged strategy, if I can call that.

Absolutely. Yeah. All of the other things, getting outside, getting fresh air, keeping your body moving, connection. Okay. So we've talked about aging, we've talked about muscle, we've talked about the gut microbiome and healing. If I really take it through these three systems in the body, what if we move up to our heart health, mitochondria and our heart health. I've had two heart surgeries. I, at that time I'd never even heard the word mitochondria from my doctors. Any studies on.

Yeah, so we are, this is, this is where my team is doing the most research these days. Heart and brain. Because muscle is easy to look in the clinic, you can put people on a exercise and evaluate. And immune system is also easy to look at. Our heart is a unique organ because it has such a high throughput of turnover in terms of how the cells are tackling the blood flow. So we're looking at how the mitochondria change in the heart over aging. So that's the first thing we're doing. There's not a lot of science in that sense. And we are looking at models of cardiac aging actually. And what we see is actually shocking is how in a young heart the mitochondria are almost like a good neighborhood. They're all talking to each other, they're all sharing sort of as I was talking about a power grid, you know, they're all exchanging energy. In an old heart, the mitochondria almost like old people, they become grumpy, they don't talk to each other. And if you look under an electron microscope at how the mitochondria in an aging Heart look like. They look like, like everything's destroyed. Like a big hurricane came and destroyed it. And so now what we are seeing is that your Latin, a supplementation, can actually repair some of that damage in the aging heart. And this is what we want to take to the next level randomized trial. So, yeah, both mitochondria or doggone ketone, good heart health.

It's so fascinating. Okay, so if the mitochondria then are communicating to each other, and if we think about mitochondria that, that are aging, you know, a brain, if we think about a brain that is aging, the mitochondria within the brain, then are those cells communicating to the rest of the body? Could this be a source of increased aging or rapidity of aging as we age?

Yes, a lot of actually the. The first mitophagy, first scientists that described mitophagy, they were actually looking at neurons of, and brain biopsies of folks who had neurodegenerative disorders. And they found a lot of mitophagy defects in, in the brain of these individuals who in their 60s and 70s had neurodegenerative issues like Parkinson's disease. And actually the word Parkinson comes from a protein called parkin that is like an eat me signal that mitochondria puts out when it gets stressed, when it gets damaged. And problem is that in neurons, the cell system doesn't see this dangerous damage signal because that process slows down. And so that's how Parkinson, Parkinsonism, mitophagi problem.

It's a fascinating time when we think about being able to even slow down or reverse this type of damage that's happening within the body. And especially women, like the amount of women that have to endure more issues around brain function, brain fog, or even worse, getting to a point of Alzheimer's and that relationship with our endocrine system, or whether we also address the mitochondria at the same time as addressing our hormones. Should this not be a topic with.

Absolutely. I think this is something that we need to put more research dollars and more research enterprise projects on is like, how does. How does even menopause have an effect on the mitochondrial health? How does different. How does. I think in our trials we've had a very good equal mix of males and females in aging studies, at least. And there we know the mitochondria behave the same at least in the 50 plus population where we see there are actually more women, 60% in their trials. And that's actually a problem in clinical research, even that women are underrepresented in most pharmaceutical or nutrition trials. A lot of men show up for clinical studies. So I think something there needs to change and more research focus needs to be put on women's health and chain.

Yeah, it's really frustrating. I think a lot of people, especially women, when it comes to wellness, we're the first ones there. We're taking these wellness practices back into our home. And for years there's been this disillusion that these studies were representative of our gender and they weren't at all. And so I wonder where a lot of us are playing catch up now, trying to understand our bodies, our physiology. We're finally making hormones part of the conversation every single day. But I think what really has landed with me in this conversation is that the circuit board aspect and the resiliency of the body at the mitochondrial health are optimized first. Then it seems like this is a foundation or a pillar that has to be recognized, no matter what symptom or imbalance that you're dealing with whatsoever. And with that said, would you say, is there a demographic in all of these clinical studies that you're doing? Is there a demographic where you're seeing more imbalances or more suffering when it comes to mitochondrial health? Men, women?

I would say it's really a mix of where the biggest stressor or the, let's say, the biggest mitochondrial issues I see, even though in a whole body people think they're okay, is in this overweight aging, 50 plus. I think that's a double whammy if you're overweight. So you're having your metabolic stressor and the aging stressor. And I said, I think most of our trials we have 60% women in. So maybe there is a third angle of probably endocrinal system in there. But I think at the mitochondrial level, we see similar readouts, but definitely those two, the metabolic stressor and the aging stressors, it's probably the most stressful for mitochondria.

So let's stay on this for a second then, because I think for a lot of our listeners, especially for everything that we hear with health and healing, like this doom and gloom that comes with aging, like, do this so you don't end up going down this terrible path of Alzheimer's disease, cancer, aging, however it looks, you know, I would say then I'm curious, can we put a different spin on aging from the studies that you've done?

I don't see aging as a problem. I see, actually, I see it more as whatever research we've been doing for the last 15 years is pro longevity. I think aging is good. And can we find strategies to enhance our health span? Because I think we don't want to all look young when we are 17, 80. But we want to be resilient. We talk a lot about that. We want to be moving around, playing with our grandkids. Right. And so can we have that functionality. That's the right word. Can we have that functionality to do our daily activities of living? I think that's if you can extend that from being a vibrant 80 year old. I think that's the holy grail, at least for me as a physician scientist.

And I love hearing that from you for that reason on this. And would you say our environment then? If we're going to take the studies that you have done, we're only in focusing on mitochondrial health. Would you say that there's impact in focusing on, you know, in yoga for example, we'll talk often about the spiritual body, the impact of the spiritual body. And I know this is the type of studies like they're so hard to do. How can you create a controlled environment when somebody's in tune with their spirit versus in tune with their spirit and out in tune with their spirit and just out in the modern world that is full of stressors and inflammation and noise and busyness and chaos and stress.

Yeah. So I think I see longevity again as a marathon and I don't think there's one magic bullet. So yes, you can improve your cellular health, but it's really a myriad of things you need to eat. Right. You need to be conscious of what you're eating, putting in your body. Second, you need to do enough physical activity. Right. Exercise is the best medicine that has been said for a long time. But, but again it's tough for a lot of folks to comply to that regularly. Then you mentioned sleep, stress, the environment, what we are again getting used to. But things like sauna, for example, there is such a big evidence, body of clinical evidence now showing that sauna is good for mitochondria. Now that piece of education just needs to happen to the, the regular, you know, individuals who think they're healthy but they can do a lot of things. Infrared therapy is another one. So there's a lot of things that might have, can be applied as an ensemble to, to really, as I say, longevity is a marathon. So you can, you know, you can cross that 40 kilometer barrier. When I think that's what you need.

To think of it, I'm calling it. I feel like there's a, there's a mitochondrial protocol coming that the Western world is going to want.

I mean, that's where modern medicine sometimes fails us. Right. They wouldn't like everybody. So this protocol, I guess.

Yeah, exactly. So let's continue then with maybe how we started this conversation and this ancient healing aspect. You know, from that perspective, how do mitochondrial health and duralithin a connect the mind and the body relationship and holistic health.

Yeah. So the way I, you know, if I, the way I approach this is this is a molecule that all our ancestors were making. Correct. I mean, we were all eating fresh fruits, fresh picking up nuts from the, you know, the wild, the berries, and we were all getting exposed to these and we had the right gut microbiomes, probably evolutionary. It's very safe. That's also very important. No, because a lot of our, our evolutionary ancestors were making it and then our gut microbiome changed. It changed so much that even I know, for me, who grew up in India, moved to us, then came to Switzerland, just migration has changed my, my gut microbiome. We, their diets have changed between the three continents. And so the awareness of the importance of the gut microbiome needs to be there. That's something that, that can be applied to it. The gut brain axis, we are realizing, is this huge body of evidence that is linking a lot of changes in our gut. Parkinson, for example, actually starts in the gut. Actually, the first thing folks with neurodegenerative decline pick up is gut issues. And so I think there's a big movement there. And then how I see your litin a connect to that sort of evolutionary practices. And, and, and the story with the gut microbiome is that's a nutrient that is, was made by our, by our gut for the benefit of the host, which is us as humans. And we, a lot of us have lost it. Right. So it's just one way to reintroduce through your supplementation back into, into our. For, for the, the good of our health, for our cellular health.

Absolutely. Something that feels really good with a lot of the clients that I'm working with. When we're focusing on optimizing the gut microbiome and digestive health, we'll often say, like, let's look at how your ancestors were eating. And you used, the story that you painted was us being in the wild and picking up wildflowers and wild berries and the ecosystem that they were grown in and different parts of soil as we would kind of migrate to different areas, likely during different seasons. And it's like this really powerful connection that we have to nature herself. Would you agree with that?

Absolutely. You know, I, again, I was trained in modern medicine, but having spent 20 years looking at natural compounds, I think nature has all the answers. And we are just at the tip of that real, you know, doing that, understanding modern sort of Indian medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, all these. There's so many discoveries to be made and so many compounds to be discovered that probably are probably 10 times more potent than a lot of our modern medicines.

Couldn't agree more. So for our listeners then, let's just say someone's going to meet up with a friend tomorrow and that friend is feeling tired and worn down as we do. What are the key elements from today's discussion that they need to know?

Well, they need to listen. They need to know that as we said, the foundation is good cellular health. That's the, that's the journey of being unhealthy. So if your cells are unhealthy, your, your, or let's say even deeper, if your mitochondria are unhealthy, your cells are not happy, your cells are not happy, or your organ is not happy, and that will manifest maybe 15 years down the line as chronic conditions that, that, you know, you're going to go to your doctor and say, well, I, I suffer from fatigue, but the problem is more deep rooted. And I think that's where I, I think people need to think about proactively in their aging process. 40s, 50s. In fact, there's a new Stanford study that shows most of the aging changes happen most at two ages, 44 and 60. And so, so that's when most transition is happening. And so if you can delay that transition and use a lot of, and we have tools, we know we can change the health of our mitochondria. Diet is one, exercise is one. And then there are advanced nutrients that are backed by science, much like we talked about.

Urban, I read that study and it's funny, I've said even on this podcast that this is the most that I've felt aging. And I do notice a difference when I really hone in on the healthy living practices that we've talked about today. When I focus in on those, then it dissipates. It definitely dissipates, but it takes consistency, it takes a little bit of effort. So that's a really, really great tip. And you know, let's just as we start to wind things down, let's talk about mitopure. So talk to us. I know there's a benefit to the dose the joke is that we take two red pills every day, which I enjoy. It makes me laugh every time.

Is the tribute to the pomegranate, the origins of the pomegranate. That's how, you know, it was conceived. So we have done those response studies where we've looked at everything from 250 milligrams of URL might occur to 2 grams of it. And the best effects we see is in this 500 milligram to a grammar window and 500 milligram for one month. In healthy individuals, we see the mitochondria starting to rewire and rejuvenate themselves. And so that's like the, if, if you're exercising, if you're eating, if you think you're eating well, that's the dose to take. And, and if you think your body is under stress and, and a bit inflamed or you're having fatigue issues, like chronic, chronic fatigue, then I again, the physician, the medical doctor, and we say that start a bit higher about, about a gram. And then when you feel the things are coming back, you're starting to feel a bit more fuel in the tank, then you can always go down and switch to 500 like milligrams. It's just like the maintenance dose.

That is great to know. Using it therapeutically is great. So it comes in capsule form, also comes in a powder sachet, which tastes really, really good. I love both of them. And let's continue on this path. You know, we're going to build this out. So for our listeners, the Dr. Anurag Singh mitochondrial protocol. Let's just say in a perfect world, in your life, what are you doing? What's the mitochondrial protocol for you? You wake up in the morning and.

I don't eat breakfast. So I, I fast, I fast from, I eat dinner probably around, around 6:37. So just after I come back from my work, so I, I fast for about 16 hours. So that, that I think gives me a lot of mental clarity starting in the day. So that would be the number one thing. Then first thing in the morning, an empty stomach, I take my lutein, a 500 milligram as a standard. But if I'm traveling jet lag, then I, you're talking, I up the dose a little bit to a gram. Definitely try to get 8 to 10,000 steps. If I'm not running or not doing any exercise, that would be just, just moving makes your mitochondria happy. This is well studied, some resistant training, high protein for your muscle. Absolutely. It's the Fuel that your mitochondria need is protein will get breaking down into amino acids. And then, you know, things that I take in addition just are to optimize overall health. It's immune cells. For example, I take vitamin D.

Vitamin D, Incredible. Okay, so we'll call it the protocol. Your fasting. You're taking your mitopure in the morning on an empty stomach. You're focusing on the power of your sleep, you're getting movement every single day. You're doing resistance training, you're focusing on protein, especially as we age because it's a necessity. And then you mentioned the quality time that you have with your community and family. That's a pretty achievable and doable product protocol. So for our listeners, I want you to head to timeline.com and you use the code mona or timeline.com mona to close things off. I want to just ask you some rapid fire questions. The first one is what are the most common mistakes or misconceptions that you are seeing women make with their health?

I think I've seen my mother and my wife. You know, one of the common misconceptions is related to a lot of heart health that this is an issue mostly for, for males, for example, a lot of issues with cardiovascular diseases, stroke for example, or atherosclerosis is sort of. But, but in the clinic we see an equal mix. And so I think heart health needs to be put more in the focus of women's health. I think that's what one, the other would be also the impact on muscle health. I think muscle is really the longevity organ. And, and if I see how my dad was 80 plus and my mom was touching 80 have lost muscle, they're pretty much paralleled the amount of muscle loss they both had maybe more bone issues on my bomb side, but I think paying importance to these muscle is, is a key organ for healthspan is important. I think those would be the two key areas.

Amen to that. I couldn't agree more. What is one way that women are making healing and health too complicated?

Too complicated? I, I think probably the one we chatted about, I think, I think a lot of that is more not on women but on the science as a community. In all the research studies women had been underrepresented and the results seen have been kind of de facto applied to women's health. And I think there needs to be more of investigation into having an equal representation of men and women trials, whether it's with GLP1 or with, you know, the trials we have been doing and I think that's where a lot of future medical health practices will change a little bit.

I love that you brought that up and I'm grateful. And one of the reasons I was so excited to sit with you is I just, I wish women would turn down a lot of the noise that is out there and what they think they should be doing. Look for the data, talk to the doctors who are doing the science and the research so that you learn and understand if this is something that's great for you. So thank you for that. What is your favorite ancient healing remedy?

Yeah, amazingly it's honey and ginger. And it's back in my head to research a bit more on things what I found in ginger. Maybe we'll come uncover another big discovery there. I'm, since I was very young, it has always worked for me for, for whenever I have a itchy sword throw. Works amazing. I, I, I, I don't know, it must, there must be some compound in ginger that really has an impact on, on killing viruses or bacteria or something.

I think. Yeah. Ginger and honey, what a power combination from nature. It's like there was a perfect relationship. If you, and this is an exciting question for you. If you had to pick something about modern medicine that really excites you, what would it be?

So again there I have to look at my training as an immunologist. I think really modern medicine, the immunotherapies, the cancer immunotherapies. You know, for example, there's a new immunotherapy called car T cells which is basically you can re engineer the cells. Your body is likely to kill cancer and you can re engineer engineer them in addition put it back into the body. This is really Star Trek kind of futuristic therapy. And I think this is for years, I mean for almost as long as I've trained or even before my time. We've heard that cancer, cancer is going to be cured, but it's never has been cured. And we all know somebody in our friend's family that has been lost of cancer. And I think we are in that journey, if not now, the next 15, 20 years where we will see cancer solution. So that's what excites me the most about Morton medicine.

Incredible coming from you. What are three things that we can start doing right now to optimize, optimize our health?

Well, we already talked about quite a bit. I think it's my time, it's evening, so I'll sleep. Yeah, so sleep is good for your mitochondria. They regulate circadian Rhythms, that's the number one thing. You can always up your protein intake. You can always take new essential Microsoft nutrients like magnesium. Magnesium is such a powerful micro. Everybody should be thinking about and, and then, yes, think about your cellular health as we talked about at your foundation and think about what you can do to, to augment that cellular health. And yeah, that's probably it.

And if you could leave our listeners with just one takeaway that you feel most passionate about, what would it be?

Yeah, it stopped. I, I think really we've touched upon it. But stop thinking about aging as, as some problem, but aging is a, is a blessing. And really think about how to extend your functionality, your resilience in this aging journey. And there are solutions today so you know that people can practice or take and really extend that health span and functionality.

Beautiful. All right. As we've learned today, caring for your mitochondria then is so much more than just optimizing your energy. It's really about taking control of your long term health, your energy, your vitality at a cellular level. And you know, I love this product so much. I'm very selective about the brands that I choose to work with and timeline, nutrition and Mitopure has been a game changer for me. This is why I recommend it. And I'm all about anything that's going to turn on your true potential to heal and to thrive and to perform at its best. When life can feel so hard, let's take the benefits that honestly come from nature that will help us thrive the most. So thank you. You are a wealth of knowledge. I'm so grateful for your time today and I look forward to the next time with you.

Pleasure to talk to Sam.