Episode 81: The Science of Graceful Aging with Dr. Kay Linker

Would you say VO2 max training is non negotiable for longevity?

Yes.

Can you describe zone four and zone five, what it feels like in the body, and how to ensure that you stay in that zone?

So zone four and zone five are sort of the high heart rate, high intensity heart rate zone. So all the zones are heart rate zones and it's anywhere. Zone five is like 80 to 90% and zone four is like 75 to 80% of your max heart rate, which is going to be based on your age. But getting a sprinkle of these throughout the week is going to be really important to push your VO2 max, which is one of the best predictors of longevity, honestly, a predictor all around. So if you can get those spurts in, you're going to basically be extending your health span, both cognitively and also for your body.

Everything that's emerging with sauna therapy, what is it about heat that's so great for longevity? Hey, everyone too is joining us live. Welcome to Rooted in Wellness. Today we have a special guest, Dr. Kay Linker. Welcome.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Me too. Yeah, I'm going to call you Dr. Kay. I reached out to you on social simply because I feel like I live at the edge of being so fascinated with ancient wisdom and part of my healing journey, but also with modern day medicine and everything that science is bringing us today around the awareness of healthspan and aging well. And as a woman doing that with grace, and you have such a beautiful way of capturing all of that. So I'm excited to dive in today.

Yeah, me too. It's funny, the more that we learn, the more you see this overlap between scientific evidence for ancient wisdom and it's just becoming kind of one thing.

I love that you said that. Yeah. Okay. We're going to dive into that. Before we do that, though, you should know this podcast is all about ancient wisdom in our modern world to that point, and ultimately how we can become more rooted. That means rooted in ourselves, rooted in our happiness, but also rooted in our inner capacity to know that we can heal. So I always ask everyone sitting in that chair, what helps you feel more rooted? Two or three things that help you feel rooted in who you are.

Movement, for sure. Meditation and sauna and I guess, you know, friendships, a good belly laugh with friends and just hanging out.

Yeah, yeah. And do you find. Are you practicing those every day of your ritual?

Every day, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And I always. I love this question so much because even for somebody like you with such A scientific brain. A lot of the modalities that people mention that help them feel their best are often free.

Yes.

Yeah. And I call that out because people listening often think, yeah, yeah, I know about that. Yeah, I should walk. Yeah, I should meditate. Yeah, I should laugh more and move more. But like, this is it. We just have to prioritize it every day.

A hundred percent. The stuff that moves the needle the most is just daily practices that are free.

You got it. And it's that consistency, right? The consistency is the core to everything that's the missing piece. So on the flip side, I'm sure a lot of people in your community are familiar with this, but wellness seems really complicated these days. We feel like there's a checklist of things to do. And with the people that I'm working with, it's almost like the things that they attribute to their wellness as that checklist are actually causing them stress and causing them to feel uprooted. So for you, do you notice when you feel uprooted are the things that happen in your life or rituals that you have in your life that make you feel uprooted? Hmm.

It's not necessarily my rituals. My rituals and my habits, like, keep me grounded. But I guess that's because I've spent so much time tinkering with them and making sure that they help me day to day. It's really getting off track with work or not making time for myself and prioritizing my to do list instead of just like making sure that I'm okay.

Yeah, yeah. And do you have check ins throughout the day?

I've been working on that because I'm in a season right now where I'm just very busy. And so I've been working on not only bookending my day with things that make me happy, but also having bouts throughout the day where it's like, okay, let's go for a walk outside for 20 minutes. Everything's gonna be there when we get back. We can take this time for ourselves, which has really been helpful.

And you really look like Grace. So for people who are listening to this later, you look like Grace. You look calm. And yet I know you're doing your PhD. You have this very scientific, scholarly, academic brain. I can just imagine that your head is often deep into data and yet you come off with this grace. So was it.

Yeah, so I, I finished my PhD and then did my postdoc. So during that time I probably was not graceful. But I, I think it's just about time and balance. Like as I've gotten older now I'm 34. I feel like I've really gotten to know myself better and making sure that again. Yeah, I just prioritize myself before pretty much everyone else on my to do list.

That's so good. The wisdom that comes with it. All right, well, I want to dive right in. So with everything to do with. You're a neuroscientist. Yeah. You talk so much and you educate so well on longevity. So I wanted to cover a couple of different pillars today that people can walk away with. But let's just start with, you know, some areas of overwhelm for people right now. Longevity, obviously, is a massive booming.

It's huge. It's exploded.

It's exploded. Right? And my mind instantly goes to wearables. And I was excited to talk to you about this today. I've worn an OURA ring, for example. It's just one of many for years, and I've had it off for the past seven days. And I feel like I'm going through this addiction clutch. Like, oh, my gosh, where is that? I don't have the data. So we want to talk about what's happening with wearable technology and how that defines us. But when you think about this massive cultural moment that longevity is having, when we think about full body MRIs, when we're thinking about scanning the body, when we're thinking about biohacking, that is everywhere. It's almost like we're putting it through a lens of having to achieve health based on these biomarkers. Why do you think technology's really become the face of longevity?

Interesting. So I think, one, if we look at longevity and biohacking kind of as two overlapping circles at times, it comes from the world of tech. And so tech has boomed, obviously, in the past 20 years and beyond. And so I think that's really infiltrated also. A lot of this has stemmed from San Francisco, where there's a big tech bubble there. Like, there's a big aging institute there as well. And so it's kind of coming from the same place. So that's probably why there's overlap. But it's also easier to create a technology that's going to track your progress versus something that's actually going to change your progress. So that's. That's probably also why.

And do you. Do you use a lot of trackers?

I use an OURA ring, and I love it. It's. I'm also addicted to it. I, like, fully have gamified most of my health practices with oura Ring like my sleep. I know exactly what to do to get the best sleep score, and that's what makes me happy. When I look up in the morning, I'm like, yes, I absolutely crushed last night's sleep. But for some people, it's not helpful because then they're sort of obsessed with it. And, you know, if they get a negative score, then even if they feel okay that day, they'll start to feel bad just because of the score, which doesn't make sense. But that's just reality. So you kind of have to know yourself and, like, is this going to help me or hurt me? Does gamifying something with a number make me better or does it make me too rigid? And. And that's, I feel, like, just very personal.

Yeah. If it's defining your day, it's working against you. Right. But if you can celebrate the wins, that's amazing. With the clients that I work with, I really love looking at their biology first because it gives me insight. And I always say, like, understand your vessel. Get as much information as you possibly can. I don't want wellness to be seen through the lens of the elite and people who can afford this. And I think that through conversations like this and the boom that's happening, the prices of a lot of these testing and things like that are going to eventually go down so that they become more accessible. But I think employers are also catching onto this, like, in terms of happiness scores and productivity scores and stuff like that. So, yeah, I think it's important that we really just empower people to use tools like this instead of overwhelm them, which I think is really important.

Yeah, definitely. And I hope more employers get more programs that allow more comprehensive panels, like with function or other places, because the average physical just doesn't cut it. It doesn't give you enough information. I remember when I wanted to get my hormones tested a while back, I basically had to have symptoms of, you know, hormone imbalance to get it tested, which is insane. I mean, I. Yeah, yeah.

I hear this story so often from my clients of, you know, the doctor saying that you're normal, everything's within range, and then they do further investigation, they see imbalances. But it's the prevention piece, right?

Yes.

So can you tell us a bit about the story that you went through there then? Like, what. What made you just want to inquire more? Was there something happening within your life and what you did about it?

Yeah. So the hormone thing was really, I want to have kids, and so I just wanted to know where I was at. I had no idea. I took birth control when I was like 16 until, like, know, 26, 27, which is insane. It was. I was not sexually active at that age and I was just put on it for acne and just never came off of it. And so when I started learning more about sort of the negative aspects of birth control, I really wanted to see. Okay, I have no idea if my hormones are normal. I don't even know if I cycle regularly. So going through that process was really eye opening. I was okay, but I definitely. It's scary to not know and then to not have access and you have to pay thousands of dollars to do it, which is ridiculous.

Yeah. And how did you test? What did you use?

Yeah. So I ended up going to like a functional medicine doctor and she just took my blood, did a urine test, and we went through everything. But also, freezing your eggs is actually a hack too, because then they'll test everything and you'll know.

That's a great. Actually. Yeah.

You don't have to go through the full appointment. So Kind bodies in la, you can, like go through the initial appointments, which is actually cheaper than what I did. And then you don't have to go through and freeze your eggs, but you'll get all your hormone data if you are not in the position to free.

It's amazing that we're in this era also of hormone optimization and that really coming online mostly for women. For men as well. For women, though. So many people who've sat in that chair have told me about going on birth control without being sexually active. My cycle was just irregular every three months and a doctor put me on it. And then obviously for acne and stuff like that, as a teenager, did not need it whatsoever. But coming off of it, also at 24, what's the hardest experience? Like, my body went through a roller coaster of symptoms and emotions, and I feel like it took years to really reset you.

Yes. I feel like it took five years.

Yeah.

If I'm being really honest, I feel like it took five years. My skin went crazy. I gained weight. Then I lost weight really easily and I couldn't put muscle back on. It was just a roller coaster. And I can't believe I was on it for so long. So long.

Yeah. It's funny, this window, I feel like it goes by so fast now. Women for, let's say more mature women who are listening too, check your hormones. Right. When we think about this as a modality or tool for pro aging or aging really, really well, this is kind of the season that I'm in right now. And I think that it's something that's so new. Don't trust everything that you hear. Would you agree that this is something that's so bio individual?

Yes, definitely. And I think as we're getting older, for me, another reason I wanted to get my hormones tested was I personally will do HRT in the future, so I really want a hormone replacement therapy. So I really want to know my levels now so that I can accurately augment them in the future. Because your receptors are different, everyone is very bio individual. So if that's something that you're interested in the future, then you should know your hormones when you're younger and when those levels are sort of normal for you.

Do you speak a lot to hormone replacement therapy in terms of, you know, when to start, how to assess, what to use?

Yeah, I mean, so that's definitely not my expertise, but in terms of the neuroscience for hrt, it has incredible benefits for your mental health. And the thing with hormone replacement therapy is you can't do it super far after like five years after menopause because you won't see any of the cognitive benefits, which kind of makes sense. We have estrogen receptors lining our brain and if those signals die, neurons are post mitotic, it's not gonna come back. So you wanna do it earlier than later.

Yeah. I think it's funny I said HRT and I immediately thought of brain health. When you're looking at studies for women in mental health, are you advocating for. Let's maybe talk about this. What are the things that women can do as they move through that era holistically to kind of ensure great mental health through hormone hormonal changes along with hrt.

Yeah. So definitely exercise, especially sort of high impact exercise, things like jumping, running, because that's incredible for bone density. So doing, you know, box jumps every time you do your leg workout is going to be a great way to really improve your bone density, which HRT also improves. But this is sort of, I guess, a natural way to do that. Um, and exercise in terms of having good cardiovascular fitness with both zone two, which is that lower impact with bouts of zone five, which is that high intensity. You don't want to do this, you know, for hours and hours a week, but getting a good 30 to 60 minutes a week in total, so that can be split up is great. So exercises definitely a pillar for mental health now, but also handling hormone changes later.

I love how you connected that. Yeah. So let's pivot this into exercise Everyone wants to know how to move, what to do. For me, the mental boost that I get, the endorphin rush that I get every day. I don't think anyone's ever regretted working out or showing up in the gym ever. So let's talk about exercise from the lens of longevity as being a really powerful intervention. Why is movement so crucial?

It's really crucial because it helps with fundamental biology that underlies aging. So there was this paper that actually just came out looking at what organs age the fastest. And the fastest aging organ is actually the vascular system. So the cells that line your blood vessels. And the best way to improve those cells function is through exercise. And I think because it helps so many modalities, including inflammation, senescence, mitochondrial function, of course, you're pushing your body in this way of hormesis, where a little bit of stress actually makes you stronger over time, that it's just going to help every aspect of your health in terms of muscle composition, brain health, even hormone health. People that don't exercise as much tend to have more unbalanced hormones. PCOS is a great example of this. It's targeting multiple pillars of aging. And so it's just kind of at the root of all good.

Yeah. Everything we see online right now, I feel, you know, clickbait is such a real thing. We're demonizing running, we're demonizing working out a certain way, we're demonizing cortisol. If you work out this way as a neuroscientist, if we're speaking through the lens of preventative care for brain health as we age, talk to us about that brain body connection. Maybe at the cellular level.

Yeah. So I think in terms of the people saying that, oh, you should only work out this way or that way, you need a balance of everything. So you don't want to be running at a zone 5 for an hour every single day. Especially as a woman, you have to be careful about. We are much more stress sensitive to men. So having two days where you do four by four, where it's four minutes of running, four minutes of walking, repeat four times, is a great way to get in your zone five. And it's not going to stress your body out because in total, it's like 16 minutes. It's really not long. And then also getting in. I love a yoga class, and then getting in strength training and doing walks and getting your 10,000 steps. Having a balance across not being dogmatic about one particular workout is going to be the best for your health. And in terms of the Brain, body connection. I think most people think about the vagus nerve, which is typically this parasympathetic associated nerve that goes down from your brain all the way to your gut and even has actually indirect connections to your ovaries, which is interesting. And to regulate that, people do anything from box breaths. But also having regular physical activity can make this parasympathetic to sympathetic tone shift more smooth, meaning you're able to switch from a stressful situation to a more calming situation and better pattern.

Everything is connected.

It's crazy.

Yeah, everything is connected. And however you move in yoga, you've probably heard this. We have an expression, whatever you practice on the mat, you take out into the world. And I think that's for everything. I think it's for running, I think it's for weight training, I think it's for Pilates, I think it's for all types of movement because of the way that it makes you feel and it's this massive release that you go through. Right, can we go back just for our listeners? Can you describe. And feel free to put this through your lens, because I know you're such an advocate for movement. You can you describe zone four and zone five, what it feels like in the body, and how to ensure that you stay in that zone?

Yeah. So zone four and zone five are sort of the high heart rate, high intensity heart rate zone. So all the zones are heart rate zones, and it's anywhere. Zone 5 is like 80 to 90%, and Zone 4 is like 75 to 80% of your max heart rate, which is going to be based on your age. Um, but getting a sprinkle of these throughout the week is gonna be really important to push your VO2 max, which is one of the best predictors of longevity. It's a great predictor of cognitive longevity. It's honestly a predictor all around. So if you can get those spurts in, you're gonna basically be extending your health span, both cognitively and also for your body.

Would you say VO2 max training is non negotiable for longevity? Yeah, yeah. And it's so interesting too, because I'm a big fan of trying everything before. I'll recommend it to my clients. I try everything to see how it feels in my body. And I remember, you know, in my early 30s, I loved running, I loved interval training, and really going into that, like, zone 5 intensity. Quite often now I do it. I don't necessarily think that my body loves it afterwards, but in the moment I can feel the benefit of it. And I say that only my body doesn't like it if it's not balanced. So if I'm showing up and doing it every single day, pretending like I have a 30 year old body, again, it's just not the same. Right. But when I'm balancing it out with strength training one day, with yoga or mobility exercises the next day, it's key. So I like that you bring that up for listeners to really think about. Okay. If you're looking at your schedule for the week, look at what day would be the best day for you to incorporate a VO5 or, sorry, a VO2 max training in Zone 5.

Right, exactly.

Versus a day where you might need a little bit lower intensity or a day maybe when you need a little bit more of an endorphin rush and the impact of what that could do for you.

Yeah, exactly. And also you can have a plan, but be flexible with it. Like let's say my days are Tuesday and Thursday, but let's say Monday is my friend's birthday and we went out to dinner and then I stayed up late and passed my bedtime. Maybe I'll switch the next day to zone two and strength training something more easy. You don't have to be so rigid, which is I used to be. I'd be like, It's Tuesday, it's VO2 max. We have to do this. And now I'm more flexible. And just try to make sure I get it within the week and adjust it to sort of how things settle out during the week.

I love that you said that. I think that the future has really personalized everything. Right. And before I used to live somewhere a little bit more flat. Like where you are.

Yeah.

Now we're at the top of a mountain and I'm finding myself walking up this mountain. I had to question whether I was in shape or not. It is intense. That is like a really intense kind of a walk. Are you a fan of incline walks?

Love incline walk. Yeah. That's how I do most of my zone two low impact because I feel like it also is good for glutes. And so I just like what it does for my body. And there's something about an incline walk. It's not for me to get that to that heart rate or flat. I have to be walking pretty fast. But I prefer to have a lower impact on my sort of zone two days. And so an incline walk is perfect for that. I've also actually been experimenting doing my zone 5, like running slowly uphill. So it's sort of less impact on My joints, but it still gets the heart rate up.

That is a good one. My son will race up a hill. I'll start with him and then I slow down. But I try. Okay, so zone two then. How often are you incorporating zone two exercises? And is there. I've read their studies around the benefits for cognitive health and brain function and stuff like that. Can you shine some light on that?

Yeah, definitely. So I try to do maybe four to five sessions a week of anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes. And I'll shift that and pair it with like strength training or I guess three to four sessions a week. But the benefits of zone two is really for mitochondrial function. So because it's it, it's aerobic aspiration, so versus anaerobic, which is zone two or sorry, zone four, zone five. So your, your mitochondria have the ability to take oxygen in to make ATP from your glucose to make energy. This means that it's sort of lower impact, it's not as intense. But this type of ATP production is really important for mitochondrial health. And so when you have long bouts of zone two, you're really improving your mitochondrial function in a way that not much else is going to be able to. So it's truly the pinnacle for mitochondrial health. And energy production is so important for the brain. It is an energy sucker. It takes 20% of the energy, even though it's like 2% of our total volume. So having good energy production, good mitochondrial function is so important for cognitive function.

I love that you brought that up. So let's connect the dots then. Because mitochondria health, mitochondrial health is having its moment right now. Metabolic health also. The studies around this is so essential when we think about it through the lens of aging. So can you connect the dots maybe in terms of our mitochondria and our brain? When we think about mitochondria within the body, we think about kind of this mitochondrial system going dormant, or as we age, we lose mitochondrial function. Is there an area of the brain that also is impacted more than the body or is it?

Yeah, that's a great question. That's a great question. I haven't really thought about that, but I think you could definitely hypothesize that the hippocampus, which is your memory center. And it's really what orthogonalizes new memories into the cortex to become long term memories. And this is kind of what we think of when we think of dementia. You lose your memory, although you lose other things. So it's sort of this hub of what we think of as cognitive function. And this area requires a ton of mitochondria, a ton of ATP, because there is so many action potentials and spikes happening that are required for memory formation, memory consolidation. And so if you don't have that ability to fire those spikes because you have messed up mitochondria, then you're going to have memory loss.

And it just makes sense. Right. It's energy that needs to go to the brain. And I think all of us want, you know, the most optimized brain function as we age, and we want to turn on that system. Right. And the way that I understand mitochondrial health, too, is that there are messengers within the body. It's a communication network. Right. So if you have poor mitochondrial health, perhaps in your gut microbiome, then that could also impact the brain in that connection.

Yeah. So there's actually a couple crazy papers that have come out recently that have demonstrated that inter mitochondrial signals can leave the cell. Mitochondria are already crazy because they have their own DNA, which is fascinating to me, and it's only inherited from the mother. But they have now shown that mitochondria can release molecules that signal other cells from within a cell. We think of, you know, the nucleus and DNA from the cell being the communicator and the controller of other cells. But mitochondria also play a massive role in controlling one cell's health, but also the surrounding cell's health, which is definitely a new area of research. But it's really interesting how exciting though, right?

It's like these small proactive changes that you make are not just impacting one cell. It's again, it's that systemic ability to impact your whole body. Right.

I think, too, that's why we've seen such an explosion of creatine with cognitive benefits.

Yeah. Are you a fan of creatine? Yeah, yeah. Studies, you know, what is the percentage or what are the grams per day? Does it vary by age? Is it something that you should increase as you age?

Yes, and yes. So women also produce 20% less creatine than men, and we store 70 to 80% less in our muscles. So we are creatine deficient just by design. And for muscle health and muscle composition and muscle performance, 5 grams is sufficient per day. But for cognitive benefits, you really want to get to 10 grams. The first study that really looked at this was a sleep deprivation study where they showed just one dose of 10 grams improved cognitive function after a night of sleep deprivation. So if you're sleep deprived, definitely try creatine. But now There was that Alzheimer's study that came out, I think in May that showed they did 20 grams of creatine for eight weeks, but which is a lot. But they had Alzheimer's disease, so it's different than preventing. But they improved metrics across every single cognitive test that they looked at, which is astounding. You know, with Alzheimer's, the house is on fire. So if you can make any type of change, it's amazing.

Fascinating. Yeah. I would say a handful of the clients that I'm working with, women specifically, we're kind of finding that sweet spot.

So.

So 5 grams. Some women have gone up to 10. They might notice a little bit more water retention around their muscles, but they cut down to 8 grams and they're feeling okay.

So, yeah, so I experienced that as well. So I paired mine with psyllium husk and that really helped. But it's also just takes time. So I noticed like the first six weeks it was like that. And then my body adjusted and I was able to.

And is that a slower absorption thing through the system?

I don't think it's an absorption thing. I think it's a water retention based off of some of the changes in the mitochondrial function. I'm not 100% sure though. So, yeah, I would be interested now.

I want to look this up.

It's amazing.

I'm a big fan of psyllium in rotation. Let's go to metabolic health because these really go hand in hand. Right. You optimize one center, you improve the other. Metabolic health for brain function. Fasting has definitely had its moment. I think that's a powerful ancient ritual that is backed by science. We know how to do that. I think for a lot of people in my community, they feel that fasting, especially for longer periods of time, can be stressful because it's a new behavior. It's something that they have to learn. Or maybe they live in a full house with other people who aren't necessarily fasting. And it's not that easy. But share with us why you're a fan of fasting for metabolic health, specifically through the lens of brain function.

Yeah. So I feel like we should break it up into both intermittent fasting and also long term fasting. Water only fast. So intermittent fasting is great not only for metabolic function. Predominantly people think because it reduces caloric intake. So if you equate calories across a 16, 8 window versus, you know, a 12 hour window, weight loss doesn't happen. But what you do have is improvements in other metrics of Metabolic health, you're probably not increasing autophagy to the degree that you would with a long term fast. So autophagy is the spring cleaning of your cells and it is so important for brain health because neurons are post mitotic, so they don't divide anymore. So they, if they don't have good autophagy, they will not have good function because they're never making a new cell, unlike a muscle cell or a skin cell that is dividing, you know, at different rates. But that's actually why the first study that looked at autophagy found that every mouse that they cut off autophagy for, they all died of neurodegenerative disease.

Wow.

Nothing else first died of neurodegenerative disease. And that was sort of the first inkling that this autophagy process is so important for brain health. And then more research has really demonstrated that stimulated, stimulating autophagy with fasting can improve BDNF levels, It can improve some mild cognitive impairment symptoms, it can improve vascular function within the brain, it can improve memory, and now even some of sort of these fasting mimetics. Autophagy. Mimetics like spermidine, which is a polyamine that stimulates autophagy, is good for brain health. It thickens white matter in the hippocampus. It can improve mild cognitive impairment symptoms. So it's clear in several ways to induce autophagy that it's very important for the brain.

We're going to go deep into spermidine, don't you worry. I'm so curious. All right, so. And you know, autophagy, when we think about aging well and obviously, you know, flushing these toxins or waste from our, from our system. Do you water fast, do you recycle it in occasionally or fasting mimicking?

Yeah, so I, I intermittent fast. That's just easy for me. It's honestly very natural. I was doing fasting probably like two days, maybe twice a year. I've kind of stopped right now. I'm just in a season of my life where work is crazy and like I don't have room for it, but I feel like I will pick it back up because I really did enjoy the benefits. Like a couple months. You would feel it for a couple months after a fast? I would at least. And so yeah, it's a tool in my arsenal that I'm not currently using, but I feel like I will again.

I love that you said that. And to everyone listening to, you know, think of it as a tool for yourself. I was on a call with my Community last night. And I would love to say, you know, let's go into a big fast together. But all of us are at different seasons and different things happening in our lives. So I'm really hopeful that people are turning on their intuition of what feels good for them. And like you, I love intermittent fasting, but some days my body just needs more fuel and I need a little bit more grounding and a little bit more comfort. And like you said, like, with age comes this knowing of your body and confidence of when to cycle in and out of these. These cycle fasts or just what to do, which is really powerful.

It's so nice to understand your body more and more even as it's changing. But it's just. Yeah, it's. I also used to be so dogmatic and so strict. And you said you were gonna do this, and so we have to do this. And now it's like, okay, we have multiple priorities. We have to decide what is number one today.

Yeah, absolutely. And when we think about that too. I'm just thinking with your brain. Pun intended. But the stress fiddle, right? Like, the more stress that we have. I can imagine what happens to your brain when you live this very rigid lifestyle of protocols and to do lists and hardcore and intensity.

Yeah. So I think especially if that's doesn't make you happy, for some people, that structure provides them happiness. Discipline is freedom. And not. That's not for everyone, though. So if you are constantly forcing yourself to do something and you have cortisol spikes every time you're forcing yourself to do that run that your body's too tired for or not eat when you're hungry, you will start to make it. So all your wellness habits are actually giving you stress, which is not the goal. They're supposed to help you. And I think it's tricky because sometimes we do need to be strict with ourselves. Like, sometimes I do want that slice of pizza, but, like, I really shouldn't have it. And so knowing that balance of okay, I'm forcing myself to the point that this is no longer enjoyable and I regret the decision after versus okay, this is not for me today or I'll do it tomorrow when I have more time. That balance I honestly am still struggling with. But finding that is so important, I think it's.

That's so true. And like, if you go through it as a season. Right. I used to be really hardcore with getting up very early to go to the gym, and I took a long break off of that just giving my body rest. But now I'm back in a season room up at 5 at the gym, just up here by 5:45. And it feels so, so empowering and motivating right now. And you know, my kids wake up and it's done. You know, I get to start my day in a really different way. So honoring the seasons instead of being so dogmatic.

It's funny you mentioned that with working out too, because now I'm in a season of working out in the morning, but previously I was working out in the afternoons and it just sort of made sense for me because it was a break from work. But now there's so much going on that it's like if I don't get it in the morning, it doesn't work. But it also makes me in a better mood the whole day. So, like, I forgot how much I love working out in the morning.

I think I'm happier. Yeah. All right, you said bdnf. So brain derived neurotropic factor. What can we do to increase this? Are you a fan of supplementation? What does it do to the brain? Is it great for prevention alongside creatine?

Yeah. So BDNF gets a lot of press for some reason, which is so important for neurological growth, synapse production. But it's sort of, you know, one instrument in the concert of different molecules that improve cognitive function. Best way to increase BDNF is exercise. Even sauna actually can improve some BDNF levels. Sauna has other aspects that are incredible for mental health outside of it. But I think in terms of understanding sort of the molecular signatures that are really going to help our brain last a long time is both inflammation and vascular health. And so trauma trying to improve our vascular health within our brain and also reducing inflammation with sauna, with omega 3s, with exercise, with eating a healthy diet, making sure that you're getting enough protein, you know, avoiding super processed foods, all of those work in concert to sort of get that molecular signature on track to be the healthiest brain that you can be.

I love it. Yes. But everything that's emerging with sauna therapy, with what is it about heat that's so great for longevity?

So it's two things. One, it induces heat shock proteins. And these heat shock proteins are chaperone proteins. And chaperone proteins help proteins fold. It also stimulates an anti inflammatory pathway through something called NRF2. But these two mechanisms from the heat shock proteins really help prevent protein aggregates within the brain. So if you think of Alzheimer's, Huntington's, Parkinson's, all of these neurodegenerative diseases have issues with plague plaques building up in the brain. And so heat shock proteins really help try to prevent that. The other thing sauna does is it gets your blood pumping. Like, if you've ever, like, recorded your heart rate with your ora ring in the sauna, like, it gets up there. Yeah. And so it's kind of like an exercise memetic. Although I struggle, it doesn't replace exercise, but it really helps your vascular function by pushing your blood flow to the degree that it needs to be in order to cool your body down as it's getting so hot.

Hmm. In Ayurveda, growing up, I grew up living on an ashram in the summer. And a lot of the people who lived there would go into the sauna with something covering their head, whether it was a cool towel or is there science behind that? Does it impact the brain? Does it have anything to do with brain function?

Yeah, I don't know. The sauna hat thing too, is weird. So, first of all, if you're trying to get your body to a specific temperature, which. Which you are with sauna, in order to get dementia reduction, in order to get cardiovascular prevention, you want to get your core temperature to a certain level. Having something that's cooling on your head is only going to make that process slower. So you're stuck in the sauna to get the same benefits.

Right.

With the sauna hat, I think it's supposed to protect your hair, but I don't know how on earth that is going to protect my ends, which is what needs protecting. I hope someone comes out with some sort of turban that you can protect your hair with in the sauna.

That would be ideal, like a hair wrap sauna.

Hawa hair wrap. Something cute.

Is this our business idea? Today I just got a sauna. We can test it out. We could do that together. I love it. And you know, if you were to throw it out there as a protocol for longevity, two times a week, three times a week, four times a week.

So every time you do it, you have an increase in benefits. And the best is four to five times a week, depending on your temperature, anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes. So traditional saunas typically get hotter. Infrared saunas can get pretty hot these days. Mine gets to 165, which is pretty hot for infrared, but for that temp, you want to stay in like 30 minutes.

Okay, good to know. And when we think about toxins, let's hover on this for a second. Right. Such a hot topic. Especially living here in la. I did a total toxic burden test after the fires. Shocked at what came back. And here I was just like looking. I had mold exposure a couple years ago. Here I am just looking at the results from that and I came back with like a page long of things that had increased, including bpa.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. So let's talk about. Are you a fan as a neuroscientist? Should people be looking at their toxic load consistently in terms of. I can imagine it's for prevention, for brain health, sauna for that. But anything else that you. You do.

Yeah. So I think one toxin in this sort of world gets a lot of hate because people are saying, oh, we have our liver, you know, we've detoxed for our whole lives. It's like, yeah, we also weren't around all of this, these toxins, these microplastics and hormone disruptors. So it's a very different world. And the idea that you shouldn't support your body's ability to get rid of things that you don't want in your body is silly. Sweat is a great way to get rid of water soluble toxins like BPA phthalates. So infrared sauna is great for that because you'll sweat more in an infrared infrared than in a traditional. Another great thing is sulforaphane. So this is from broccoli sprouts and it's. They actually give it to firefighters. So they give a bunch to the LA firefighters because it prevents cancer, because cancer is a massive risk factor if you are a firefighter. So if you know you're exposed to a lot of toxins, sauna and sulforaphane is going to be great.

Shout out to a company called Brockshot. You know. Yeah, I love them so much. Sulforaphane. Take it as a little shot every single day. And like the studies on sulforaphane, amazing. The whole body are incredible as an antioxidant and oxidative, stress and detoxification and all of those things. So shout out Prakshat. That's amazing. All right, that's great for Sana. I think a lot of my clients will really underestimate the power of heat or they'll dismiss it, which is surprising because the trend is to always look for the pill or the hardcore protocol or something that they have to do. But this is like, go and breathe, go and meditate. Find a friend and book a sauna meeting instead. And I love that you brought that up in terms of, you know, the overwhelm and the hype around Toxins. And maybe for listeners who might be rolling their eyes when we say the word toxin, don't go down the rabbit hole. Start simple, right? Look at the toxins that you might be exposed to in your house, through your food, through your water, your personal care products, the plastics that you're using.

Yeah.

Did you do a full purge of plastics at your house?

Yeah. So I think the easiest thing is get rid of any Tupperware that's plastic for sure. If you have that. If. Even if I get takeout, like, I will move it into, you know, a normal container that's not plastic and just trying to eliminate it as much as possible. There are certain things, like some milks I buy. It doesn't, you know, it comes in cardboard, which for sure is lined with plastic. So I just try to pick my battles. Anything that's heated and is plastic, get rid of that first. And then in terms of toxic products, really just make sure stuff that you're using every day is as clean as possible.

That's so good. Yeah. All those plastics at the hot bar that are sitting.

Oh, my God. And they're all black too, which is the worst kind. Yeah.

No heated plastics from hot bars at big grocery stores. Get rid of them. All right. Shifting gears to. One of my favorite ancient rituals is meditation and yoga and the impact on our brain health. So the lineage of yoga that I grew up with, we actually spend about 40 minutes at the beginning of the yoga class just breathing. We'll do things like alternate nostril breathing or stomach pumping. And honestly, Dr. K, you feel your brain turn on. There's like, there's more acuity. Your mental focus is there. I feel energized. And often before podcasts, I'll sit and I'll do some breath work as well. Are you an advocate for this as a neuroscientist?

Yeah. I'm honestly newer to breath work, but I do a lot of meditating and I love yoga. Yoga. If I could get all my longevity benefits from just yoga, I would do it every day. It's my favorite workout. But there's so much evidence for meditation for positive cognitive impacts. I was actually just reading this study looking at insular cortex. So the insular cortex is really this integration of sensory information and executive function. So basically your input from the outside world, but also your internal input. And it's that seat of sort of self thinking. And they showed that meditation across multiple papers increase insular function, insular size, as well as the white matter tracks coming from it. And also people that have adhd, have smaller insular. And they showed, you know, if you can incorporate a meditation practice, you can improve ADHD symptoms as well as this insular cortex size. And there's a ton of information about the default mode network is, which is really sort of your self talking network. And it decreases when you have more and more meditation. So you're no longer racing through your thoughts and constantly thinking 24, 7. You're able to get out of that loop once you get into that meditation.

Practice, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's hover on this because I know that applies to every single person that listens. Okay, so default mode network through meditation, you can turn down that function, which allows you to be more present. And are there studies around time? Do you have to be a seasoned meditator? Can somebody practice meditation for a week?

Yeah. So the first studies were with seasoned meditators because you want to get a signal. You want to say, okay, is this real? But now there's been more sort of RCTs, clinical trials of looking at eight weeks of meditation, anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour a day that show impacts on a reduction in the circuit's activity and an increase in mood and, you know, subjective benefits. The meditators feel better and they also feel like they're not thinking, you know, all these crazy thoughts. What I've noticed, and I, I wonder if you've noticed this. I've gone through seasons where I've meditated for an hour a day, two hours a day, and I found that after that season, I'm able to get to the same place within 20 minutes. It's almost like you sort of build up this resilience or something.

Oh, it's so true. It's almost like, and maybe there is some science behind this, but it's like a space snapshot that your body remembers. And so if you can get back to that point, you drop in. I drop in a lot quicker. I love that you said that. Yeah. And I think people think that if they get off track, it's so hard to get back in. It's actually not your body. It's like it remembers. Right. And I think your nervous system has a craving and a desire to be there. And I don't know, I'm smiling like I'm surprised with the data that you're giving. Why do we need more science that's validating the benefits of meditation for us to just like, it's the thing that we need to do. Brain health, gut health, digestion, aging, longevity, daily focus, like it's the thing. It's the red pill.

It's the red pill. But still, most people don't meditate. No, most people don't.

So we don't give ourselves the time. Yeah. All right. Meditation. I love that you brought that up, too. All right, let's move on to some more buzzworthy things that people are latching onto for brain health. The first one is turmeric.

Oh, curcumin. Yeah.

Wellness trend around for, gosh, forever. Why is this so important for longevity?

Yeah. So turmeric, I guess, gets a bad rap as a buzzword, but there's a ton of data showing that it really reduces inflammation. It reduces TNF alpha, it reduces IL6. These are inflammatory cytokines that have negative aspects on every single cell in your body. It can even improve some T cell function, which is that part of your immunity that you really want to function properly. So honestly, look at turmeric almost as a geoprotective molecule because it helps this fundamental pillar of aging, which is inflammation. I haven't really seen data that matches turmeric in terms of blurring inflammation, except for maybe sulforaphane is probably pretty close.

Interesting. And when we think about turmeric, too, and let's just put it through the lens of the gut microbiome and digestion. There's a communication. Right. So I can imagine cytokine happening that can just communicate body.

Yeah. Also, you know, those cytokines can be released not just by cells in your gut, but everywhere. But cortisol especially binds directly to mast cells in the gut, which can cause leaky gut and inflammation everywhere. So that communication network is so key for every aspect of health.

Cortisol binds to mast cells within the gut microbiome.

Within. Yeah.

Oh, fascinating. And I love that you brought that up. I love your brain. I love your brain because it's just a different way to look at things around the gut microbiome. Right. When we're associating, you know, the things that we're eating or something that's inflammatory or something that's toxic could actually be hormonally driven and stress driven as well. Right. Do you take curcumin?

I do, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

As a supplement. Do you cook with it?

I use it as a supplement. I just want to know my milligrams. So with sort of more naturally derived ones. I don't know the amount of curcumin that's actually in there. So maybe it's a control freak thing, but I just want to know how many mgs I'm getting.

Yeah, yeah. We tend to cook with it also. But I think the one gift, I'm half Indian, half Danish, so, like, the blessing was to learn from my mother how to cook with herbs synergistically.

Oh, cool.

Or absorption and bioavailability and stuff like that. Do you pair turmeric with anything for bioavailability, supplementation wise?

Yeah, black pepper. So most of them, the good ones will have black pepper already in it, but you need that to activate it.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, going to the question that I was so excited to ask you about today. Spermidine, it's one of those supplements. I feel like this is what happened. Brands catch on to something that's new and all of a sudden you see it available in so many products and we think that it's the new kind of holy grail of what to take. But spermidine is one of those compounds that sounds really high tech, but it's actually found in traditional foods like natto, which is also beneficial for the gut microbiome. But I was reading that it actually supports with autophagy in the body. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Yeah. So spermidine is a terrible name, but it's an incredible molecule and it's. Yeah, it's been around in food forever. And when you look at blue zones, they actually typically eat foods that are rich in spermidine naturally. And there was sort of this boom in looking at spermidine because originally it increased lifespan in different animal models and these different models that scientists use. And then they started working with humans, and it really showed that it can improve cognitive capabilities through autophagy, which is such an important aspect of cognitive health, but also total, total body health. Autophagy goes down as we age. It's our spring cleaning system. We really need it. And spermidine is kind of stimulator of this without having some of the negative aspects of fasting. So for some people fasting, they lose muscle, they can have hormone disruptions, or maybe they're just not physically in the place to fast. Spermidine is going to be able to increase autophagy without fasting. It's also obviously easier than fasting.

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. And so what's the protocol? How much spermidine should somebody aim for daily?

Yeah, so anywhere from it really depends on how old you are. And if you're cycling, if you're gonna cycle it, I would say 5 gram or 5 milligrams a day. And if you're just on it 1 milligram. Most of the studies are with one.

I can imagine that you share probably a lot about the brands that you trust, reputable sources. You probably just like do a deep dive into where the products are made and what's going into them.

Yeah, CO is really good. Have you looked at that? Yeah.

Okay, great. Good to know. So I'm thinking now here I am thinking, I've got my curcumin, I've got my spermidine that I'm taking. I'm now, you know, I'm adding creatine to my coffee every single day. Really through the eyes of prevention. What else do you think are kind of like the non negotiables for cognitive health and aging?

Did we talk about omega 3s?

Okay, it's kind of leading you there.

But. So omega threes, EPA and DHA are great for cognitive health because they reduce inflammation, they improve your vascular function, and they improve sort of the lipid composition of your brain, which is so important because the way that neurons communicate with each other, it requires this sort of lipid between the communication signals. And really the first studies we're looking at DHA and Alzheimer's and showing that a decreased risk as well as improved symptoms. So getting 1 to 3 grams of EPA and DHA per day is. So it's a baseline in terms of.

Longevity on every system too. Right. Like I'm thinking about cardiovascular health, I'm thinking about inflammation, I'm thinking about gut microbiome, I'm thinking about stress and like all the Omega 6 and Omega 9 that we're exposed to every single day. I think it's also a supplement that's part of the wild west of production.

Yes, it's. It is, it really is. Yeah.

What about vegans?

Mm. So there's some algae based ones that aren't bad. Uh, the thing with sort of plant derived EPA or DHA or. It's not EPA or dhea, it's a precursor for that ala, it's not going to convert that well. So if you can get it from algae sources, that's far better than getting it from walnuts. It's really just not going to get you to the levels that you need.

Yeah. All right, next would be when we're thinking about longevity. Is NAD another golden dangling carrot?

Yeah. So I'm not a huge fan of nad. Um, I think there's not much research for it. If you take it and it makes you feel amazing, pop off. But I personally don't feel many changes. I, I don't think the Research is there. There's also now sort of more research looking at potentially negative impacts in terms of cancer and in terms of other sort of negative growth cycles within your cells. So I'm not a big fan. Some people love it. I don't think the research is there.

I think if you feel great when you're going for maybe an NAD IV and you're someone who just like, it's like awakening for you, then keep up with it for sure. But as with anything, I think the more that we're consistent with something so long term that's been so recently highlighted as being this golden nugget, always take it with an air of caution and take breaks. I cycle my clients in and out of supplements for that reason.

Yeah.

I'm also a really big fan of just working downstream, like the precursors for what creates these things within our bodies. That leads me to nmn. Have you talked about that?

Yeah, I guess I kind of group those together. So basically, NMN and NR have shown to increase blood levels and of nad. So it's clear that the supplements increase levels of NAD within your system. The question is, just because something goes down as we age doesn't mean replacing it is going to improve aging metrics. There's connections to sirtuins, which are these DNA repairing enzymes with nad, but that the f. The ability for NAD to bind to sirtuins exists on a tight curve. So if you have a ton, it's still not going to bind. If you have a little bit, it's just going to replace it to the amount that it was binding before. So this idea that you're going to flood your system with NAD and you're going to improve all these DNA repair enzymes, I think is naive.

I think David Sinclair really brought that kind of to the table. Right. With lifespan, healthspan lifespan.

You also brought resveratrol to the table.

Okay, did everyone start drinking wine then and thinking that it was going to be good for them too? Yeah. Resveratrol is something I don't think I've ever, ever focused on with my clients as being a major source of energy.

Bunked.

Yeah. Right. I think that was one of those things.

I mean, GlaxoSmithKline lost $200 million over that.

Really? Oh, my God. No. Shocker. Yeah. I'm curious for you, before you speak about it to your audience. You do a lot of research. You're looking at studies to see who it impacts, how much they're taking, really the guardrails of the study and like, what's really taken into consideration versus what we're seeing on social media is one singular study in a very small paradigm. And all of a sudden that's something that goes viral and everyone thinks that it's something that we need to take. I wish that we could turn this off or stop this altogether, but. So let's just go through as a neuroscientist then for you. Non negotiables every single day. So the supplements that we talked about, what else are you doing?

Yeah, so I also do, like a multivitamin. Multimineral. I love collagen and astaxanthin for skin. There are, you know, tens of papers. There's probably 20 different meta studies across, you know, thousands of different patients showing collagen improves skin. Skin metrics, aging. Skin metrics increase collagen density of the fibers within your skin. It improves hair growth. So there's a ton of evidence for collagen, despite people saying that it doesn't work.

The problem is that we can't tell it where to go.

No. So collagen is very interesting in that it's predominantly made of these types of amino acids called proline and hydroxyproline acid amino acids. So if you have a collagen supplement, definitely look and make sure there's a high percentage of those because those are a pentameric ring. They're an interesting shape. They actually evade a lot of the enzymes within your gut that break them up into smaller pieces. So you'll see, two to three hours after collagen supplementation, an increase in these peptides in your bloodstream. So you can't tell it where to go, but it is leaving your gut and going to your blood. That's why you also see benefits for joints and things like this. But I'm not complaining about joint benefits.

Fascinating. Okay, so can I ask, are you looking at marine collagen? Are you using bovine collagen? I know there's different types of collagen. What are you looking for?

Yeah, so I use both. So there's this sort of propensity to choose marine. But both. Both papers have shown that bovine and marine. There's a couple papers with marine. The vast majority of papers use bovine. Both work, so it's up to you. If you don't eat meat or something, choose marine. But yeah, yeah, I honestly use both. And I personally haven't noticed a difference between either.

You have amazing skin, too. Astaxanthin. This is a supplement that my mom was put on like 15 years ago, and it Was so hard to find back then, but surprising benefits. Can you share more about that? And is this something that you take?

Yes.

Yeah.

I love astaxanthin. So astaxanthin is fascinating because it is the most powerful antioxidant that we know to full stop. If you do sort of these oxygen tests of, like, how fast can it, you know, get rid of a reactive oxygen species? It's 6, 000 times more powerful than vitamin C. It's more powerful than CoQ10. These are within a lab. So, you know, you have different things within your body, like, how are these things absorbed? But it's clear. The best antioxidant, because it's lipophilic, so it can go straight to the mitochondria, straight to the source of the free radicals and stop them. And this has benefits for your mitochondrial function, so you'll. It also crosses the blood brain barrier. So you'll see benefits for the brain. You'll see benefits for, you know, anything that mitochondria has to do with, which is everything.

Everything.

And it's great for your skin because your skin is the number one absorber of, you know, reactive oxygen species. We have UVs, so it's kind of like an internal sunscreen that can increase your minimal urethra dose, which is basically the amount of energy it takes for you to get a sunburn. So it's. It's amazing. I love astaxanthin.

Yeah. I love your passion about it. Um, more powerful in Coq 10.

Yeah. Crazy.

Crazy. I've never heard that. Uh, food sources. Is it worth looking at food sources, or you'd have to eat a lot of shellfish.

Yeah. So it's in. Anything that's pink, that comes from the sea, it's gonna be in. But it's way easier to supplement.

Yeah. Okay. I'm sold on that. Um, I love going to your page to learn about. Learn about slowing the aging process. Astaxanthin's going on the top of my list for that. But talk to me about, like, if you were to recommend to this audience five things that they can do to start slowing the aging process. And I'm saying this with a lens of grace and beauty, embracing it all at the same time. What are five things that you recommend?

Definitely move every day. You don't need to have a strict schedule or trying to get in sort of everything that we talked about in terms of what's important for exercise. Get in the habit first and then build both in cardiovascular health as well as strength. Training, moving every day. Just getting into that habit is great. Saunaing four times a week or even if you don't have access to a sauna, a hot bath is better than nothing. There's been studies showing 20 minutes and 104 can improve some of the same things that sauna can, as well as just avoiding processed foods. I eat meat, I eat vegetables. I think the best is to be an omnivore, you know, really making sure that you're just kind of eliminating any of the BS that is in packaged foods, the low hanging fruit. And then I created a supplement for women that's a longevity supplement designed for women. But I'm hesitant to talk about it because we're sold out.

Oh, so we'll mention it. Just, we'll put it up maybe when you're, when you're back in stock.

Okay.

And I want to hear all about it anyways.

Yeah, so it's, it's called Aonian. And so much of the biohacking space is for men and every single supplement is really designed for men's bodies. So I wanted something that was designed for my body, especially as I'm getting older and also my priorities. So I wanted collagen in, you know, my longevity supplement stack as well as multivitamin, multimineral spermidine and inositol, which is great for hormone health and you know, regulating blood sugar. Just things that we as women need as we get older and.

Yeah, so aeonian. Yeah, we're gonna link that up below. And is it a capsule? Liquid?

So it's a powder that you mix.

With water and you're taking it once a day? Twice a day.

I take it every day. Sometimes I'll take it twice a day if I'm like sluggish in the afternoon, but typically just once a day.

Does it taste like anything?

So it's a lemon flavor.

Beautiful. Yeah, I love it. That's great. And is this part of the future for you? Do you want to. I love the inspiration. Obviously the market is flooded with things for men and for growth and bulking and the studies are done on them as well.

Yeah, I definitely, I, we just kind of started. But I would love to have something that is evidence based for women but feels feminine. So many of these brands that are evidence based like feel like they're made from a lab. And I wanted it to have the quality of evidence, you know, based on composition of formulas and making sure that everything is tip top. But how the brand feel like a luxurious experience, like have it, you know, Be nice to actually use versus just like mechanical.

Yeah. What I love about you too is that today it's clear you've, you've really kind of created a holistic approach or like a multi dimensional approach to aging well and longevity. And I think that that means a lot, especially coming from someone with such a scientific brain, because you think you'd just go down that, that whole of just being in the science of it.

All.

Right. But it's really a full spectrum approach.

That's the cool thing. So I, I really struggled when I left academia. That's actually one of the time periods where I was meditating like two hours every day because it was a big deal for me to leave academia. And what it opened up for me was being able to not be so focused on one topic and being able to open my eyes to other disciplines within science. How is this actually, you know, implemented in real life? Like how, how. Let's expand the worldview and not be so focused and just be more free and.

Yeah, that's beautiful. All right, I have a few more selfish questions. I'm just curious about peptides.

I love peptides.

I know you do. So they were on the market, they were off the market here in California. Now they're back on. Some of my clients, like, they feel really invasive just giving yourself an injection. Now we're moving to capsules as well. So tell us about peptides. But really through your lens of longevity.

Yeah. So look, peptides are the cherry on top. It's not going to fix anything. And also talk to your doctor. I'm not recommending anything. I've just seen incredible benefits from certain peptides for healing. So I had a really bad repetitive strain injury from pipetting in the lab, and I was able to heal it with BPC157 and TP500 after doing physical therapy for a year, and it wasn't getting better and six weeks it was gone. And I just was like stunned because I tried everything I, you know, turmeric to reduce inflammation. Like, nothing really worked like that did. And then after that, I sort of started experimenting with other peptides like CJC and Epamorelin. But it really depends on what your goals are. They're pretty specific in terms of what they benefit. So you kind of want to do your own research of what you want to get into and go from there.

Yeah. And find a provider who's really genuinely interested in you and your goals and why you're using them and how. Because otherwise it's another one of those dangling Carrot moments where, oh, just take this and this is going to fix everything. It's not. In addition to everything else. And hovering on BPC 157. Do you know that I started HRT because I thought I had frozen shoulder. Oh, wow. And it wasn't hrt. Didn't do a whole lot for it. But I've been taking BPC157 now for the past two and a half months. Mobility's back. There's just like a tiny little twinge that's there, but, like, it's back. It's amazing.

Yeah. It's so nice to move your body.

And be like, wow, it's not broken. Yeah. But that, to me is science really stepping in as a modality to enhance healing instead of doing something that's really, really invasive. I want to incorporate beauty to this conversation a little bit too. You and I both know beauty is from the inside out. But as a woman and a man who's listening, the things that we want to be doing, peptides for aging and for skin health as well. You talk a lot about this.

Yeah. So GHKCU is probably the most popular one for skin health. I haven't seen insane results or insane data for it.

Okay.

So I, you know, it could be helping. I feel like there's better stuff for skin and skin longevity out there other than that particular peptide exosomes, stem cell sacrotome sculpture stuff that's actually sort of really targeted to the skin versus whole body. I think it's going to be better in terms of sort of the biohacking for skin longevity.

Yeah. I love it. And I have no shame around the vanity of it all.

Like, it's part of our physical body.

You know, it's how you feel and how you show up in the world. Right. And I think more often than not, if you've ever gone on any protocol where, as you mentioned before, you've just taken out the things that are inflammatory, focused on meditation, really been consistent with your sauna and your rest and your meditation. You physically see the difference in how you look and. And your fatigue and the brightness of your eyes and your skin health and all of those things. So if you want to enhance, just like, again, I think it should be treated just with that personalization of what's really good for you and how it can work for you for the future. So shout out to you for owning that as well. Yeah.

I think I love, you know, beauty and skin longevity, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a little Nip tuck a little laser here. Like, you know, if you want to. I want to look young and be young, so I'm going to do both approaches.

Do you? Right. All right. For people listening then, if they had a takeaway from today, maybe as a neuroscientist that you want all men and women to hear, what would it be? Living in this modern world of overwhelm and wellness overload everywhere.

Yeah. I would say pay attention to how you feel before and after any sort of wellness activity, whether that's exercise, sauna and log it and then recognize sort of what's filling you up and what's taking away. And for me, a big thing was making my routines flexible. And so just try to get stuff in throughout the week and if you miss a day, it's okay. You have tomorrow. Being flexible but still making sure that you're prioritizing your health. Because what else is there if you're not healthy?

Honestly, I think I spend the bulk of what I make or not the bulk of what I make. I prioritize the money that comes in on my health and wellness.

Same. Yeah, I don't care about a bag.

Me neither. I care less about all those things anymore. Right. Less about the shiny objects. It all goes back into my health and really learning what my physiology needs. And maybe it's the wisdom that you and I were talking about with getting older, but it's kind of cool to get to a place where you own what your body needs and you prioritize things like sauna or maybe oxygen chamber. Right. I'm sure you're a fan of that for brain health.

Yeah. I used to think it was total bs, but then more and more research came out and I was like, no, this is real. And then I experienced it. I was like, oh, my HRV went down so low, so. Or sorry, up so high. Meaning like lower stress and. Yeah, I love it.

Tell us about that. So were you going to a facility using a hyperbaric oxygen chamber?

Yeah, so there's a bunch in LA and I wanted to try it out. So, yeah, I was going. I went like once a month for like six months now I've kind of stopped. But it's great. You'll love it. Yeah.

If you're in Los Angeles, actually, they're franchise now, so they could be in the city that you're in. Do you know Next health.

Yes.

Yeah. So dear friends of mine, tell them that Mona sent you and you can go and get yourself a complimentary hyperbaric oxygen session. I wish one was going to move the needle completely for you. But you will feel a difference after just one session.

Yeah. You'll notice, and then you'll be convinced that it's working.

Yeah. And it's going to force you to be still. Yes.

True. So true.

You can't do anything when you're sitting in a chamber.

Yeah.

All right, Dr. K, we're gonna link out to a onion below. How do you like communicating with your audience?

I'm on Instagram and tick tock Dr. Klinker on both. Yeah. Reach out.

Amazing.

I'm there.

You have a wealth of information that I love and you're so great at sharing. Are you ready for some rapid fire questions? Sure.

Yeah.

Let's do it. All right. What are the most common mistakes or misconceptions that you're seeing people make with their health?

Ooh. Either working out too hard or not working out hard enough. You need a balance.

Love it. What's one way that many people are making healing and health too complicated?

Making it so that you have, you know, little addendums and endnotes to every single thing. Like, oh, you need to do the cold plunge, but wait, you need to do it before you work out and just, you know, focus on the simple things first and then add on.

It's that or else. Right?

Yeah.

It's like the ultimate lesson of, like, losing perfectionism. It's okay to not be perfect anymore. Or maybe you are perfect in the imperfections. What's your favorite ancient healing remedy?

Meditation.

Yeah, we talked about that. If you had to pick something about modern medicine that excites you, what would it be?

I think with modern medicine, the influx of research and that relationship between doctors and scientists becoming tighter. So it used to be that doctors, you know, just did the same thing, same routine, forever and ever and ever. And now there's really a communication flow that's increasing, and so new techniques are coming into, you know, modern medicine. Really exciting.

I keep saying this. I wish there was actual integration in integrative healthcare.

Yeah.

I really wish that practitioners across different spectrums communicated with each other to learn from what they're bringing to. To the table. And also the wisdom. Right. When we think about people who've worked in the industry for so long and the things that they've seen and even practitioners who've been around like, I am looking for wisdom now. Show me the wise healers who've been doing this for 30 or 40 years. Because there's a knowing that comes with it almost despite the scientific data.

Yeah. They have an Intuition. If you've seen thousands of patients, you will start to get an intuition about.

Yep. What are the top three things that we can start doing right now to optimize our health? We've talked about so many today, but I want to hear your top three move every day.

Spend more time with people that you love, and get rid of any processed crap in your diet.

And let's. I'm going to ask a different question of you. Let's just say just imagine you're in your 50s or 60s, and you start to notice that you're, like, searching for that word a little longer than you should be, maybe a little bit more forgetful or feeling a little bit more fatigue. As a neuroscientist, focus on longevity. At that point, what would you do? How would you take action?

First, I would get that AB42 to 40 test. It's basically a plasma test for Alzheimer's disease. Instead of having to get like, a spinal tap or something. And then I would go to, you know, a specialist. And typically they'll put you on a pretty intensive exercise routine as well as a more, you know, relatively intensive diet. I already eat healthy and work out, so I would be curious to see how they would alter that to sort of really prevent Alzheimer's disease. And I think it's important to recognize, too, that being a lifelong learner is going to help your cognitive capacity over time because you're going to build up your cognitive reserve. This is different than doing a bunch of Sudoku puzzles or crossword puzzles. That's not going to build up your cognitive reserve. You need to be actually learning something, not sort of just getting better at a puzzle.

So always be a learner. Yeah. Taking courses, learning new things, whatever you like. Yeah. That is such good insight. Thank you for that. So the AB42 test is something that you can look into.

I'll give you the exact name. I could be.

I understand it, though. And at the end of the day, I love that insight. But the takeaway from the way that you've been speaking today, it's really all about prevention, 100%. Everything that we do now is going to impact the brain and the body of our future.

It's so much easier to prevent. It's so much easier.

Yeah. All right, Dr. K, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited for those of you who could join us live. I can't wait to have you back. Herbs. See you in Los Angeles. Now that we're friends, thank you so.

Much for having me. This is great.

Yeah, me too. Thank you.