https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgHmVA0iVQ
Dr. Dawn Mussallem discusses nutrition for breast cancer patients, recommending 1.3-1.6g protein per kilogram of body weight and a flexible plant-based approach with quality supplements. She covers screening guidelines (mammograms at 40, earlier for high-risk families) and warns against low-quality supplements, emphasizing third-party testing and common gaps like vitamin D and magnesium.
Chapters
Habits or rituals that you have that.
Cause you to feel uprooted.
You know, that wellness right now, it's. It's overwhelming for a lot of people. People are confused. They don't know what to do. There's so much data out there. And even in this world of biohacking, it's the daily checklist of things that people have to do that might be the source of what's uprooting them and causing them inflammation and causing them stress. So do you notice when you drift, you travel so much, you have your hands in so many opportunities. What are those things?
I think it's that it's when I start doing too much. And so I really work hard at trying to ask the question when I say yes, is the yes behind an authentic reason for me to serve others, women?
Because I think we hear it, but I don't know that we practice it. So talking about it more, I think, is super powerful. All right, so diving into your story. All right, you've had such an incredible journey. I would say that, you know, we think about most of us never really expect to face our own mortality at a very young age. And this is exactly while what you did, but you did this while you were training to heal and help other people. So can you talk to us about that time that you were in medical school and what happened? You were studying to become a doctor, but your life changed drastically. It did.
And I know you have a personal journey, too, and I think it's these journeys of adversity that just give us the opportunity to have this complete connection with our inner wisdom.
Yeah.
And so it was so interesting because my whole life growing up, I came from a family of such deep love, and we had faith in our life and connection and joy. And so I never want anyone to compare their journey to someone else's, because I feel that my journey was so easy compared to others, because I came from this foundation of knowing love very intimately. But it was a few months into medical school, and I wasn't feeling well. I went to medical school in Arizona, and I would climb Camelback Mountain for those of the listeners that know what Camelback Mountain is, twice a day. So I go up the mountain, down the mountain, up the mountain, down the mountain to class. And so then all of a sudden one day, it got hard. So I saw a doctor, and they said, you have asthma. Use an inhaler. It didn't get better with inhaler. Saw another doctor, he said, use it more. And then actually ended up seeing a third doctor. And they Said, it's in your head. This is something that happens to all first year medical students. What are you studying right now? And sure enough, we were saying pulmonary medicine, you know, So I beat myself up. I'm thinking, this isn't like you to be kind of wimpy like this, like, toughen up, like, you know, get through this. I really started to believe that it was really in my head. A few days later, I collapsed on my way home from medical school, and I was taken to the hospital. They found an imaging that had a very large mass in my chest. I was taken to urgent surgery. They did a thoracotomy where they opened me up. The tumor was actually entrapping and pushing down on my great vessel. So I was in cardiogenic shock. And it was a 16 centimeter mass. It was this massive tumor. They biopsied it the next morning. This was Thanksgiving of 2000. They came in my room and they said I had stage four cancer. I know it gives me chills. It's just so hard to believe. But I wasn't fearful in that moment. It was just like, I just felt like, okay, root yourself into the knowing you have of what you're able to accomplish and look for the lesson lessons. And what they said next was I had three months to live without treatment and 20 months to live with treatment. And they said, you won't be able to have children. We need to start chemotherapy right away, and you need to drop out of medical school. You know, it was like just all these absolutes. That's what kind of really came at me hard, was more the question, why? Why are you delivering this message to me in the way you are? What a lesson for a young medical student to know. Okay, this is how I will not be a physician. So I learned to hire the right medical team that would be able to work with me. I stayed in medical school, and I knew that I was equipped with the knowledge. My undergraduate degree was in exercise physiology and nutrition. I actually went to naturopathic school before traditional medical school. So by the time I was given this diagnosis of cancer, I had a lot of fundamental knowledge of how to really take good care of myself and then hire the doctors that could give me this conventional treatment. Because it wasn't about replacing conventional care, especially the stage 4 cancer patient, with just healthy living. Because the truth is, I was living healthy anyways.
Yeah.
So one could certainly ask the question, well, maybe you're not the best poster child for healthy living if these things happened. And I would be very quick to say that I would not be alive today if I did not live a healthy lifestyle.
Absolutely right. What would have happened?
Exactly. So I had to do chemotherapy. I did many months of chemotherapy, and I went on to do a bone marrow transplant. And I remember so distinctly during my bone marrow transplant, and this was in 2000, so this is a long time ago, 25 years ago. The chemotherapy was very different then. And I remember keeping my life exactly as it was out of the hospital. I would set my alarm at 4am every hospital morning. They had a bicycle in my room, a bicycle by the nurse's station. I would ride the bike, I would study. I kept my life normal. But I remember each morning when I would kind of sneak out of my room. They let me ride the bike at the nurse's station, looking out and seeing all the other patients, and they were so sick in an effort to be alive. And I just attained my vitality without pause. And that's exactly what I want to do with my patients. And what I do try to deliver that message of hope, to knowing with my patients that they too can attain their vitality during this very. What can be perceived as difficult time and. And to look for these lessons because life was magnificent at a time when we're so scared of maybe dying, we are more alive than anyone could ever imagine. So had I died, it would have been okay because my, you know, 26 years on Earth up to that point, and then particularly at that point were just so illuminated with just this glorious existence. So it was okay. But guess what? The stage four cancer was cured. So she lives on, right? And then it gets better. She lives on. I was able to get pregnant. My husband and I found out that we were able to grow our family. So I had a little girl in 2003.
What a miracle. What a journey, too. So when you look back, you know, did you go through a phase where you're racking your brain, you're healthy, you grew up with love, you had faith in your back pocket, you were hiking, you were active. Do you rack your brain of the why story? Like, why did that happen to you? People want to dig and poke. It must have been the toxins, it was the diet. You were doing something in there that wasn't good for you. We want to look for reasons and we want to look for the logic behind everything, and sometimes there just isn't logic. You and I have gone deep on the psychospiritual aspect of a lot of things and know we could go even deeper into the. The genetic and past life type of thing. But where did your mind go?
You know, I remember I didn't have time to think that way. Like I felt like if I really tried to reflect on the why me? Why did this happen? That that wasn't going to be energy that was going to solve and move me forward towards the healing journey. That kind of reflection came later. Like the why did this happen? Carolyn Miss has a book called Anatomy of the Spirit. So I did read that shortly after and I was able to do some reflection and kind of understand why. As a little girl, I grew up in the country in Ohio and I would play in the creek and it was a runoff from, from, you know, vegetable fields. And so it could have been glyphosate. Yeah, I was raised in a plant based environment. I, you know, consumed a lot of oatmeal, a lot of oat brands, which were probably sprayed as well. So could it have been like a glyphosate?
Who knows? Yeah.
You know, prior to that I had had a major heartbreak, like the love of my life fell in love with another woman. And I always wonder, could that have been part of it? And I've never actually shared that with anyone. But if I had to bet, according to Anatomy of the Spirit, that probably was why. Because the tumor was wrapped around my heart and compressing it. You know, and so if you really think of the presentation of my illness, it could have been that because it was very, very hurtful for me. I mean, it was, you know, years preceding that illness. But it's here to say, you know, some of that unresolved trauma, it is really important to work through that in an open way. And I remember I kind of just took that, that away, tuck that under the rug. It wasn't something I wanted really to be open with. And isn't it interesting? I've been kind of close to about up until now, like, like soul sister, you know. So yeah, I think that that would be part of it. But I think deeper to that. I think when we're born, we, our life is kind of predetermined. Like every decision we make is kind of also predetermined. Probably predetermined, right. And this was meant for me. Had I not had these experiences, I would not be able to be in the position I am now to help other individuals heal in their journeys. And I would so much have rathered it be me than one of my family members.
Absolutely.
So much easier.
Do you know, it's interesting, I read the same book and only recently did I share about the Heartache that I went through at the time of my heart palpitations and my heart surgery, it was the same thing. But there's an understanding of, like, it's. I think we need to move away from this strategic A plus B equals disease mentality because it's so multidimensional. And I think that the more that we can consider the fact that we're. We have these emotional bodies that are such major drivers to our physiology, such a big component to healing. And I just, like you are the type of doctor, if I had to say that I manifested doing this podcast. Podcast, podcast for a reason. It's for doctors like you who can really, like, live on the line of understanding both worlds. The. The scientific aspect of it, but also that psychospiritual aspect of it that, as a doctor, now drives the way that you work with people. And I think that now more than ever, people are so hungry for a doctor that can see them and feel a little bit of their pain and feel a little bit of their suffering. Because sick in effort to live is a very different type of mentality than living in effort to live longer. Right. Yeah. I love that you brought that up.
It's so true what you're saying, Mona. You know, I work with women who. My specialty is breast oncology, integrative breast oncology. So I'm with women who are. Their mortality is being questioned every day. These are young moms, daughters, wives, you know, and unfortunately, one of my patients actually died while I was here. And I rarely have patients die nowadays, you know, because we do so good with our treatments. But it happens, you know, we are on Earth and our time on Earth is finite, and we can never predict when that is. But it's always so sad to me when I do see that one of my patients does pass away. But we learn so much in their beauty and just their radiance, and especially in. In those final moments of their life. It's just been so beautiful for me to be in that position with them. And I know we'll talk a little bit more about my. My journey, but I am just such a believer in heaven or just a beautiful life beyond this. And that is what works for me. And my upbringing was Christian faith, and so that's obviously how I was raised. And so it gives me such comfort to have that foundational belief system.
Do you know the one constant thing my dad has said to me since I was little? I grew up with a Hindu faith, and then I went to Catholic school. But my dad would always emphasize and his Parents died kind of tragically very young. But this body is just a vessel. Right. That concept of being a spiritual being in this physical body, it's so true. And it gives you so much faith and a sense of freedom and, you know, when things feel so challenging in our world. Right. So I love that that's part of your DNA.
I love that you're probably so you.
Have actually faced two life threatening conditions. Okay. Your story doesn't end there.
Yes. So after my daughter was born, it was just a few weeks after she was born, I started not to feel good again. I would have swore the cancer was back because it was the same exact symptoms. But this time the narrative was totally different. You know, I was like, tough girl during my cancer. Like, it was just me, you know, so I could be a tough girl. Like, if I died, who cared? Like, it was just me. Like, really, that's kind of how I looked at it, was like I had nothing to lose. And so now all of a sudden, I'm a mom, I'm a wife. And this was hard. Now I really understand what my patients go through as women who have children, who have husbands, because now it's no longer about you. And if something does happen to you, you worry about their sadness and their suffering because you're no longer there to give them the love that you want to be there to give them. So I kept it to myself and I waited and I waited until all of a sudden I was ready to collapse again. So they take me to the hospital and I'm again in a cardiogenic shock, assuming it's going to be cancer. But they do an ultrasound of my heart, and my heart was only beating at 8%. I had advanced heart failure, and it was caused from the radiation and the chemotherapy. But, you know, we knew that there was these chances with the treatment they were going to give me because the risk of dying from the. I had a diffuse large B cell lymphoma was very high. You know, people didn't live through that kind of cancer back in 2000. And so the heroic treatments they gave me allowed me to be cured, but caused some collateral damage along the way. So now I had a heart failure, and that is such a difficult diagnosis. I will say my heart literally goes out to young people with heart failure because as a cancer doctor, we have a lot of resources. We don't have nearly those resources and support tools for young adults with heart failure or even older adults with heart failure. It's very hard to live with a chronic disease period, where you Just don't have the amount of energy that you're meant to have. So I was in residency. Now I have heart failure. I'm a mom. I mean, you know, what did this mean? And this is when I became actually a patient, even though I was a resident in Mayo Clinic, this is when I officially became patient. And they just filled my heart with hope. And they said, don, when the medicines don't work anymore, we'll have to do some interventions. When that doesn't work, maybe someday you'll need a heart transplant. So the natural kind of pattern of heart failure is I got better. And so then I really worked hard in residency and probably pushed it too hard. Residency is so hard on the body. So in 2007, I had to take some time off. And the hardest part of my journey happened about a year after that. And I think it was actually a blessing in disguise that I had that year off, because as a resident, I didn't have time to be home. I was always working. My mom would help with my little girl. My husband was working. He was busy, too. Big family. Every weekend we would go out to dinner as a family, have this big long table with the extended family. And after this one night, he just said, honey, I'm not feeling good. I'm going to go to bed to sleep with the baby. And so I went to sleep with Sophia, our daughter. Next morning, I wake up 4am I always get up at 4am I was working on some projects. He wasn't up yet, which was unusual because we would usually wake up at 4am together. I said, he's just run down, not feeling good. So Sophia wakes up about 6 and says, mom, where's Dad? She was 5 at the time. I said, oh, honey, he's just sleeping in. And then 8 o' clock rolls around. She said the same thing. Mom, where's dad? And then it was like the trigger, like, then all of a sudden I just had this sense of impending doom, like, something's wrong. So that, honey, just watch tv. I'll be back. And so I went to go check on him, and he had passed away in his sleep. Unbelievable. And that. It almost makes me feel nauseated even to this day. And I really haven't even processed it yet. Like, I really don't know how to process it. It's such a raw emotion, loss. And I would say, you know, I was born with just very joyful existence. And if anyone has seen those Disney rides where it free falls, it's like you fall straight to the ground. That's what my emotional state did. I went from this joyous being of just embodied love and happiness to just. And I knew I couldn't resuscitate him because he was cyanotic. And it's just. But yet I tried. And I remember like hitting him. Like, don't do this to me. You just. The emotion is so. It's so mixed. And what I would describe is it took me a full year before I can listen to music. I couldn't handle any stimulation. I just again needed to just be. And I just really maintained that place of stillness. And I knew I needed to be strong for my daughter. And I really would say this is when I really became a believer. And I, like fell in love with Jesus. Like the concept of Jesus, that I would be okay. There was a nun I listened give this beautiful talk, Sister Breej McKenna. And she talked about her relationship with Jesus. And she used the word adore. She. I just adore Jesus. And to this day I think the word adore, like, Mona, I adore you. Yeah, you know, I just think I adore my daughter, you know, And I think that's such a beautiful word. That's how I got through the death of my husband was through this concept of heaven, through belief in Jesus, through belief in God, something bigger than myself. And it was amazing. After about a year, I started getting stronger again because during this time my own heart was not doing good. So it was really scary. But I had to be strong. I needed to go back to work, I needed insurance benefits. So I was able to go back to residency, finish my residency, and then got even stronger.
It was.
Was that. It was like a miracle. It was like my husband Charles was by my side this whole time to get me to where I needed to be. Did a fellowship as a hospital physician at Mayo Clinic and became a hospital doctor with like this not real good heart, but I felt amazing. I had more energy than any human in the planet. Like with. With a heart really not working good. And that took me through till about 2015. So it was 2008 when he passed away to 2015. And then that heart failure thing started kicking in. Just when I would drive, I would feel like I was going to pass out. I would have word finding difficulties. If I would be talking to a patient too long, I'd be like, I would feel almost like I would lose consciousness. And so my heart started not to work as well. So Mayo Clinic had said, you know, would you consider transitioning to the outpatient setting? And that's when I designed the integrative breast oncology program at Mayo Clinic in Florida. I piloted the program, which is meant to be. I mean, this is what. This is what I actually trained for my whole life, going to naturopathic school, traditional medical school. Even though I loved the stimulation and that academic prowess of being a hospital physician at Mayo Clinic, it was time to transition into what I do today. And so in 2015, pilot this amazing program. In 2016 was the year mark of the success of the program. And I will never forget this day. It was September 22, 2016, and I had just finished my patient panel for the morning. And I always joke, if any of my patients are listening, they will understand. I'm always late because I just stay in the moment, and I'm like, well, the next person, if I need to be there for this person, I'm going to be there until everything is addressed. And so I'm just really, like, pathologically late. It's a real problem. So it's late for this very important presentation with board of trustees and important male leaders to talk about the success of this program. So as I'm going down the stairs, I remember my legs feeling so weak, and I was like, oh, like, what's going on? You know, in my mind as a doctor, I'm thinking, did I eat breakfast? Did I have too much caffeine? You know, I'm processing all these things, and I just thought, you don't have time to think about this. Just get to the room that you need to do the presentation. So I hustle. I'm feeling a little short of breath, just feeling totally off. And I go to open the boardroom door, and I remember I couldn't even open it. It was so heavy. I'm like, oh, help me. And the woman on the other side opens it, and she kind of gives me this discerning eye, like, where have you been? You know, I'm thinking, oh, sorry. And she points like, I felt like I was, like, in first grade again, being reprimanded. I'm like, I'm coming. So I go and I take my seat at the head of the table, and the screen is at the opposite end. And at this point, I'm feeling kind of nauseous. I'm just like, I'm not really, truly here with these people. So I grabbed the mouse, and I was trying to control the efforts of the mouse with the cursor this far end of the screen. And I just remember looking, and the cursor was getting lighter and lighter. And that was my last conscious memory And I had a four minute near death experience where I truly met God. Like, I mean, it's like so cool. So Dr. Grayson, actually I had a meeting with him and he is the doctor that studies near death experiences. When he heard my story, he reached out to me. So it was amazing. So, you know, I would say that it was the most beautiful experience. I've never feared death since this time.
Are you the only person on this planet who can say it was the most beautiful thing? It was a near death experience. It was a miracle. What a gift.
No, I think anyone would. Anyone who's truly experienced near death experience, it would have to. At least the near death experience that I was given. I mean, Mona, I would never have come back. Even though I had a daughter and I had this beautiful life. I could have stayed there for the rest of it. I could have stayed there for eternity.
I hear what you're saying. Okay, so let's hover on that for a second. What did it feel like? Because everyone we. I hear, I understand what you're saying about the beauty because there's always a beautiful experience in the moment. What did it feel like for you?
Yeah, so, you know, here I am like rushing, rushing, rushing, right? And we talked about being to becoming and just moments of stillness. It was the ultimate stillness. And I mean, I could just shut my eye. I like I'm there right now. I can go right back to that place like on a dime, like, so if I'm feeling ramped up or if I'm just feeling a little bit off, I'll just pause and go like, pull myself right back to that moment. And I remember just this sense of. It felt like the hands of God were holding me and I was floating. Like I don't remember seeing my body, but I just remember being held by the presence of this grand, defined being. And it was just this sense of embodied love. Like, love like you've never had before. Oh my. It was so, so beautiful. And the feeling that was one with me at the moment was total acceptance of this complete unknowing. There was no questions. And I'm very inquisitive, very curious human. I'm always asking questions in my mind. It's fun like, it's fun like I think I like to be in my head because I like those questions because it's inquisitive and it's, you know, it's how I think we solve problems. But in this moment there was none of that. It was true stillness, such peace. And then it was just that it Was very, very simple. I remember one sensory experience that I remember as if I was floating was. Was how it felt like I was just. There was. There was no weight to my body, and I felt one single hair in my lipstick. And I remember, like, usually that's. They would drive you crazy. And I remember even just accepting that, like, that's always so weird. And I think that must have been in the very beginning of the experience. You know, as I was going into it, people have asked me if I seen any white lights, And I asked Dr. Grayson that I didn't see a white light, so maybe it wasn't really an experience. Like, not everyone needs to see a white light. There was. There was none of that. There was no judgment. There was. Was just beautiful.
It feels like freedom. Just stillness and peace and freedom. Do you remember waking up?
I do. You know, and you have the catecholamines that are coming through. So I woke up, and I. My defibrillator was shocking me the whole time. And so since I had a defibrillator in my chest, they had the rhythm strip. So it was a complete asystole, which is a flat line for four minutes. And that's why my defibrillator couldn't shock me. Like, was. Because a shockable rhythm is one where you have a little bit of a. A hump. Okay. It's called a QRS segment, and it grabs that QRS at the top, and it brings you back to life. I didn't have that, so I couldn't grab it. My electrophysiologist at Mayo Clinic, Rochester reviewed the images, and he just said, you came back for a reason.
Yeah. You were gone.
Total miracle. So cool. So really. But I woke up, I was like, okay, I can finish my talk. They're like, no, you're not. You're going to just lay down. You're going to the hospital. So from that moment forward, I. I was never able to really get my health back. So from 2016 onward, in 2019, I was listed for heart transplantation. You know, this is a shout out to organ donation. I had to wait 12 months with no matching heart. After 12 months, I was decompensating, so they had to admit me for supportive care. And then February 5, 2021, they got a matching heart.
Unreal.
Yeah.
You know who that hurt came from also, right?
Well, there's a. There's a story behind that. So my doctor, who was a dear friend of mine, came in me, sat on the front of my bed, and he said, we found a matching heart. And you would think in that moment that you would. I mean, I looked 18 years with heart failure, you know, and it was like I was going to finally get my life back.
Yeah.
Like, my life where I could, like, walk again and think again and drive without passing out and, you know, know, do things with my daughter where, you know, is. I couldn't even lift her and wash her as a baby because my heart was so weak. It was really. It was interesting. I never looked at this suffering, but now that I look back, it was like I lived a life with shackles.
Yeah.
And now when people are like, oh, my gosh, she's so happy, I'm like, my life is just effortless. It's just everything's with ease. It's, like, so simple, this life I live. But in that moment, when he said that they found a matching heart, I thought, well, what does this mean? You know, do we have a physical heart? Do we have an emotional heart? Like, you brought this up in the very beginning. This is my heart. Like, this is hard. These beautiful childhood memories of such deep love of my daughter growing up with my husband who passed away. And now I'm going to get a stranger's heart. What does that mean? And then the next thing that my doctor shared is she's an IV drug user with hepatitis C. And I was like, so this is funny. This is the first time in my life I was like, why me stops here? No more drama. I am not. This is crazy. And so I was like, I need to think about this. And so then I thought, wait a minute. Why this judgment? This is, like, my biggest lesson in life. Why am I judging?
Oh, wow.
She was an IV drug user, but willing to be an organ donor, which many of the listeners may not be organ donors. Right. So here's a beautiful person willing to give me this gift of life. And after a few hours, I had this total knowing that this heart was meant for me. And it has been this dance of life with my donor heart. She was 29 years old. I don't know anything about her. I wrote a little letter to the family, but I never heard back. And she may not have had a family. I don't know how she died.
You don't know.
But I was given this gift. And there were some complications after my transplant. They had to actually take me back to the operating room. It was a very complex surgery from the previous radiation. Of course, there a few days after that second opening of my chest that they needed to do that. I woke up and, you know, know, I think we all would say, like one of the most grand, magnificent moments of your life. It would be giving birth to our children. You know, it's just like as a woman bringing life into the world that really is number one. My near death experience is number three. Number two is waking up after my transplant. And I remember hearing this sound when I woke up. And it was just glorious sound. It was just like harmony. I thought I was in heaven again. It was just this amazing, like, all encompassing sound. And it dawned on me. Wait a minute. It was my hair brushing against the crisp white linen sheets. But it was this powerful beat of my new heart.
Oh, my. Your vibration was that feeling?
It was exactly that. And I was just describing as like every cell in my body was just oscillating this higher vibrational frequency. I would say that if one could levitate, I was like, I just feel like I was ascending, like this elevation of consciousness that I don't think anyone would ever quite be able to understand. I think you do. I know you do. But I've like held on to that. I've never lost it since this moment. Sometimes I feel like it goes so high that I bring myself back to that moment of that near death experience where I can kind of just settle into that stillness again because I. I can get really high energy from that. And it's like such a gift. And I can't help but think that it is because of my donor heart. And she may have had a lot of suffering in her life. Life. And I have lived in a place of pure bliss my whole life. So to go from suffering to bliss overnight, I mean, it's just like this magic. Like we have just magic together. So it's so cool.
We think about how life works for our highest good. And looking back at your story, I don't think hearing someone's story, I felt every emotion from speechless to tears to grief, all in one. And I know our listeners can hear the way that you are and your energy and your spirit. You are that high vibration. You are always smiling. You're the person that walks into a room and people just look at you like it's just. It's who you are. And I'm hovering on this for a second because I think that people really need to know that these stories exist. We need more of this out in the world because it gives us a reframe not only of what death would look like, the beauty in life, the gifts that come to us through hardship and illness and disease. Like, what if it was all happening for us, for A reason for higher good and the reflection that you ultimately had to be a caregiver to be able to look back at the reflection of, why am I judging? How can I judge other people? Right. As a doctor and caretaker. Right. It's just like the, the highest lesson I think that we can all receive in this lifetime to look at somebody through the lens of empathy and happiness and joy and the gift that you're giving everyone today of the reminder of, like, what a gift this life is.
Right.
I know it's hard. I know probably the majority of our listeners have been touched by cancer, have not had cancer themselves. Right. It's just, it's that prevalent today. So thank you for that reflection. Your voice, it needs to be amplified. Your story needs to be amplified. And I'm sure we still have so many questions ahead of us, but I want to dive into all of these and I want to have her too. So. 8. Every 8 minutes, someone is added to the organ transplant. Every 8 minutes, someone is added to the organ transplant list in the US but we rarely hear what it's like to live with a donor's heart. Right. And I think there's more awareness that needs to be had around people adding themselves to a donor's transplant list as well. Exactly.
And as a physician, you know, you hear these stories. So many people are scared to be organ donors for the fear that maybe their life will not be. The attempts to save their life wouldn't be as heroic. And that's actually quite the opposite. You know, they really strive to keep people alive no matter what, and especially if you're an organ donor, because they want to keep those organs well perfused. So if anything, I almost feel like it's the opposite. We always save a life, but they are certainly not going to take any shortcuts if they hear that you're an organ donor. Of course. And you know, I, of course, I have a very strong bias towards organ donation, but I don't know what good our organs do when, when they're underground or, or cremated or whatever it is you decide to do with your body after you pass away, but the ability to continue to extend life in the energy of your own spirit absolutely. Into another. And, you know, I've been able to be there for my daughter and in, in her life. And it's not just my life that would have been impacted if I died. It was everyone else that loves me and all my patients and the purpose and meaning. And that's really why I'm just so committed to what I'M doing professionally is not me. It's just I was given a second chance, I believe for a reason. So it's just to deliver this message of love and kindness and I mean, there's no one I would rather share the story within you, Mona, because you are that you are and you've had your own journey. So I know a lot of this is probably personal. Even know what you've experienced.
It was actually a big inspiration. In specific moments, I didn't have a near death experience at all. But there's been moments looking back at my journey where I remember the split moment. Seconds of awe of feeling peace, of feeling held, of feeling light, of feeling open to something that was greater. And then it's almost like your mind gets in the way and it's like, oh no, you're back down to earth for a second, right? And I think it's those moments or those glimmers that need to be shared with people because they exist and people spend a lot of time chasing as opposed to leaning back into just the essence of who they are. And I think for us as practitioners, when we're working with other people, it's almost like when you're stuck in a certain mind frame around what it's like to be sick or if you've been diagnosed by somebody who's in a white coat, you live with that label. You live with the hardship around it and it becomes you, right? The diagnosis becomes you. You're coming to the story from the other hand as somebody who no life is joyful. I get to do this once. This is amazing. It's such a gift. It's like, wow, if I could just try that on for a day, if I could just borrow that mentality. And I can imagine that your patience being around your energy and having somebody who can reflect that to them, it's like, oh yeah, we've got this right? And that for me, ties into. I'm doing my master's in quantum healing, which for. Did I tell you that?
No.
Yeah, I am, because I'm so excited about this aspect. Like, what is it about people like you who can get this donor's heart and still heal themselves again? The body and the incredible wisdom that exists within you. So no matter what you're suffering from, just. It's resilience in action. That's exactly what it is when it comes to your belief system.
Oh, I love that. Resilience in action, in that activation part of it is so important, you know, don't just sit back and wait, you know, Here we're saying it's important to be, but you also be active.
Yeah.
And whatever you believe in, like, move that forward. I think that's so important. And I love when I am with patients. And I know when I had both cancer and heart failure, that word hope bothered me. I didn't like that word hope. I felt that there was a duality to it. And I like the word knowing. So I tell my patients, know we're to get from hope to knowing that you're going to be okay. I was talking to one of my patients who has stage four cancer. I can say who had stage four cancer, you know, oftentimes. And this really bothers me. I think that in medicine it's really frustrating for me when doctors share with patients you have X amount of months to live or X amount of years to live. That's based on research. That's numbers. You're not a number. You know, you're an n of 1 for as far as I'm concerned. And if you want to live, let's go for that. Right. Because. Because I shouldn't be here. And so I love to take my patience from hope to knowing you're going to be just fine. You know, what was intended for you in your journey is what's going to happen. So let's be authentic to what you want that to be and let's be active participants and taking really good care of ourselves because I think we are responsible for that. So if we're put onto earth with kind of a predetermined plan, I think we're put under earth. But we need to be very responsible with how we take care of our vessel, like your father said, and how we honor and how we love our bodies to show up for ourselves.
Absolutely. And thinking back to your story, I'm thinking about after you got this heart transplant, as a physician, also knowing the duration that it takes to recover from something like that. Like it's like a year to be able to walk without feeling fatigued. Right. And here you are. Let's share with everyone the fact that you're a marathon runner.
Oh, so that was so fascinating. So, you know, I figured being that my background is exercise, nutrition, and I love food, is medicine, whole food, plant based nutrition and then just the mind body aspect of it, the quantum healing, the guided imagery, like how can I put all this to the test and do something no one else has done? So I told my colleagues I want to run a marathon on my one year heart transplant anniversary. And it just so happened that the Breast cancer marathon that I would volunteer at for years and hand out water because I couldn't walk or run. It just so happened to be on my one year heart transplant anniversary. And you know, I actually didn't share this part of the story, which was kind of interesting. It was a few days after my transplant that I got a little frustrated that I had had the donor heart. I did because the hepatitis C that I acquired from her, those numbers started going up. And my insurance said, we're not going to cover that medicine while you're in the hospital. You need to wait until you go out of the hospital. I'm like, this is crazy. So now I have hepatitis C and I can't get the medicines I have. There's been some research show this increases inflammation. It's going to affect my transplanted heart. Years down the road, I start putting that doctor hat on. And so I remember I went to bed that night kind of frustrated. You're on a lot of steroids. And I don't usually get that way. Like it wasn't my normal way of thinking, but I was just a little angry actually of like, why, you know, why is this happening kind of thing. It was more the steroids talking. Remember running to the window in this dwelling place. And this is like a sensory experience. This was not just a dream. And I remember the door, there are these long blades of grass. And I remember crawling through the grass. And do you remember as a kid or even as an adult, you walk through grass and it kind of grabs your leg and it's like sticky, almost cuts your leg. You feel that's what the grass is doing. So I flip over this big clouds and in the distance it was these families. It's like this state of like the new world bliss, love. Children with their fathers, with their mothers, with their cousins, whatever it may have been. It was just this pictorial image of what humanity in a unified, loving environment should look like. And that's what this dream was. And then over me came this very profound word. And it said Grace. And so I woke up in that very moment in the hospital. And now I'm just like overwhelmed with knowing that, okay, I'm going to name my heart Grace. From that moment forward, there was never again any turbulence related to this, that very moment. The song playing instrumentally I would always listen to instrumental music in the hospital was titled Grace. And I opened up my email and the email waiting for me was titled Full of Grace. So there's a reason I bring it up because that's actually a really Important story for what I'm going to share. So back to okay, Dawn's going to run a marathon. She's out of her mind. This isn't going to happen. So my daughter's like, sure, whatever this is, dawn ism, it's not going to happen. It's just not possible. So then I took my first step. I'm like, oh, shoot. I probably didn't thought I'm going to do this because this may not be possible. My calf muscles were indented. I was so deconditioned that, I mean, I was using like two person assist and a rolling walker after my transplant for days. And then I just would bug the nurses, say, hey, I want to walk again. I want to walk again, I want to walk again. So it was like every hour I would make the nurses unhook me. Poor thing. They were so loving, they were so kind. God bless nurses. They were so amazing. They're angels on earth. And they would do all that. They would get me to walk and walk, walk. So that's what I did. I just kept on pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. And then by three months, I ran my first 5K. At four months, I did Camelback Mountain.
Three months, you ran.
It was crazy. No one. Well, that is a little controversial. So by the way, talk with your doctor. My surgeon, the majority of people said she can't do it. But I asked my surgeon and he's like, go ahead. He's like, I have you wire chat. Nothing's going to open. You weigh 100 pounds. I'm not worried about this. And I trained really, really smart. So then from there I just kept on increasing the miles. Jeff Galloway, who is a former Olympian, who does that run, walk, he, he worked with me. It was really critical because with a transplanted heart, it's actually much harder than people realize because the sympathetic nerve, which allows your muscles to get more blood, when the heart recognizes that you're working harder, that sympathetic intervention or connection is cut. So you don't have that ability to make the heart beat more because my muscles are working. So you have to use your circulating catecholamines or hormones to do it, which you and I are high energy. I don't have to worry about it. I can mouth this pretty good catecholamine response. But then you don't have break. So when you're ready to stop, your heart still racing. So it's crazy. I had this young heart, so I would run. My heart was like in the 190s, they're like is this normal? They're like, we don't know. And they're like, yeah, it's normal. She has a 29 year old heart. Let her do it. So I was fast and did great. Had good recovery. I attribute, you know, I took really good care of myself. Very healthy, whole food plant. I do whole food plant. Only nutrition. That's what I personally feel very good with. But I was very specific about making sure I got enough protein. Protein during that time with that heavy training. And I ran the marathon on my one year heart transplant anniversary. No one had ever done that before. It was amazing.
What an incredible story.
But it's cool. So at the finish line.
Yeah.
There's a massive construction sign and guess what the construction site says. Grace. Grace. That's really cool. And My number was 365. Just by coincidence. So there was all these little, like neat little cities. Yeah. So it was really cute. So thanks for letting me share that story because the grace is just. And grace is like it's within each of us. Right. But it's such a powerful word.
And I think once you're open to receiving and seeing synchronicity, you see it more and more and more. And you can trust it also as being part of your journey. For our listeners who are going through any type of healing journey, you know, healing is not linear at all. How much of that. You know, there's so many things working in your favor of who you were. Your medical background, your training, nutrition, how much of it was mindset and your belief system.
All mindset. Yeah. It's that simple. I mean, it's all mindset. And I stayed out of the way of my doctors. I didn't re. You know, and that's one thing. I did both with cancer as well as with heart failure. You know, I probably could have maybe read up more. So I. But I just hired the doctors I could trust so I could do my own life, so I could help my own patients and stay busy there to.
Recover from something like that. Like it's like a year to be able to walk without feeling fatigued. Right. And here you are. Let's share with everyone the fact that you're a marathon runner.
Oh, so that was so fascinating. So, you know, I figured being that my background is exercise physiology and nutrition and I love food, is medicine, whole food, plant based nutrition and then just the mind body aspect of it, the quantum healing, the guided imagery, like how can I put all this to the test and do something no one else has done? So I told my colleagues I Want to run a marathon on my one year heart transplant anniversary. And it just so happened that the breast cancer marathon that I would volunteer at for years and hand out water because I couldn't walk or run, it just so happened to be on my one year heart transplant anniversary. And, you know, I actually didn't share this part of the story, which was kind of interesting. It was a few days after my transplant that I got a little frustrated that I had had the donor heart. I did, because the hepatitis C that I acquired from her, those numbers started going up. And my insurance said, we're not going to cover that medicine while you're in the hospital. You need to wait until you go out of the hospital. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, so now I have hepatitis C and I can't get the medicines I have. There's been some research show this increases inflammation, is going to affect my transplanted heart years down the road. You know, I start putting that doctor hat on. And so I remember I went to bed that night kind of frustrated. You're on a lot of steroids. And I don't usually get that way. Like, it wasn't my normal way of thinking, but I was just a little angry actually, of like, why, you know, why is this happening? Kind of thing. It was more the steroids talking, really high doses of steroids. So I went to bed that night and I woke up in this dwelling place. And I remember running to the window in this dwelling place. And this was like a sensory experience. This was not just a dream. And I remember looking out the window to see if my car was. It wasn't there. And there was a chair behind me. So we're looking at the chair and thinking, why isn't my purse there? It was like disoriented. There was a door. So I remember kind of crawling, like walking out, kind of crawling out the door. There are these long blades of grass and. And I remember crawling through the grass. And do you remember as a kid or even as an adult, you walk through grass and it kind of grabs your leg and it's sticky, almost cuts your leg. You feel that's what the grass is doing. So I flip over those big clouds and in the distance it was these families. It's like this state of like the new world bliss, love. Children with their fathers, with their mothers, with their cousins. Whatever it may have been, it was just this pictorial image of what humanity in a unified, loving environment should look like. And that's what this dream was. And then over me came this very profound Word. And it said Grace. And so I woke up in that very moment in the hospital. And now I'm just like, overwhelmed with knowing that, okay, I'm going to name my heart Grace. From that moment forward, there was never again any turbulence related to this, that very moment. The song playing instrumentally I would always listen to instrumental music in the hospital. It was titled Grace. And I opened up my email and the email waiting for me was titled Full of Grace. So there's a reason I bring it up, because that's actually a really important story for what I'm going to share. So back to okay, Dawn's going to run a marathon. She's out of her mind. This isn't going to happen. Somebody was like, sure, whatever. This is a Dawn ism, it's not going to happen. It's just not possible. So then I take my first step. I'm like, oh, shoot. I probably should have said, I'm going to do this because this may not be possible. My calf muscles were like, indented. I was so deconditioned that, I mean, I was using like two person assist and a rolling walker after my transplant for days. And then I just would bug the nurse. I say, hey, I want to walk again. I want to walk again. I want to walk again. So it's like every hour I would make the nurses unhook me, poor thing. They were so loving, they were so kind. God bless nurses. They are so. They're angels on earth. And they would do all that. They would get me to walk and walk, walk. So that's what I did. I just kept on pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. And then by three months, I ran my first 5K. Four months I did Camelback Mountain.
Three months you ran.
It was crazy. No one. Well, that is a little controversial. So by the way, talk with your doctors. My surgeon, the. The majority of people said she can't do it. But I asked my surgeon and he's like, go ahead. He's like, I have you wire chest. Nothing's gonna open. You weigh 100 pounds. I'm not worried about this. And I trained really, really smart. So then from there, I just kept on increasing the miles. Jeff Galloway, who is a former Olympian, he was at Run Walk. He, he worked with me. It was really critical because with a transplanted heart, it's actually much harder than people realize because the sympathetic nerve, which allows your muscles to get more blood, when the heart recognizes that you're working harder, that sympathetic intervention or connection is cut. So you don't have that ability to make the heart beat more because my muscles are working. So you have to use your circulating catecholamines or hormones to do it, which you and I are high energy. I don't have to worry about it. I can mouth this pretty good catecholamine response. But then you don't have break. So when you're ready to stop, your heart still racing. So it's crazy. I had this young heart so I would run. My heart was like in the 190s. They're like, is this normal? They're like, we don't know. And they're like, yeah, it's normal. She has a 29 year old heart. Let her do it. So I was fast and did great. Had good recovery. I attribute, you know, I took really good care of myself. Very healthy, whole food plant. I do whole food plant. Only nutrition. That's what I personally feel very good with. But I was very specific about making sure I got enough protein. Protein during that time with that heavy training. And I ran the marathon on my one year heart transplant anniversary. No one had ever done that before. It was amazing.
What an incredible story.
But it's cool. So at the finish line.
Yeah.
There's a massive construction sign and guess what the construction site says. Grace. Grace. So it's really cool. And My number was 365. Just by coincidence. So there was all these little like neat little. Yeah. So it's really cute. So thanks for letting me share that story because the grace is just. And grace is like it's within each of us.
Right.
But it's such a powerful word and.
I think once you're open to receiving and seeing synchronicity, you see it more and more and more. And you can trust it also as being part of your journey. For our listeners who are going through any type of healing journey, you know, healing is not linear at all. How much of that. You know, there's so many things working in your favor of who you were, your medical background, your training, nutrition. How much of it was mindset and your belief system.
All mindset. Yeah. It's that simple. I mean it's all mindset. And I stayed out of the way. My doctors, I didn't re. You know, and that's one thing I did with cancer as well as with heart failure. You know, I probably could have maybe read up more. So but I just hired the doctors I could trust so I could do my own life, so I could help my own patients and, and stay busy there. And so that for me worked really, really Good. But it was about mindset. You know, I. I feel like there's this recipe for grittiness. I had someone say, well, I don't like that word. I'm like, well, I don't know. For me, I. It. It's kind of like why I'm here today. Sort of like that we're grit, actually. And number one, it's reframing, you know, flipping the script on cancer and heart failure and making it a teacher like, look for the lessons. And gratitude, you know, that it will take you from a place of deficit to abundance, and you'll just keep on ascending this escalator of just such greatness. When you have that gratefulness, you know, it's just so, so grateful to be alive for every single breath. Just so, so very, very grateful. And so for me, those were foundational. But the biggest part is belief in something bigger than yourself. I just never worried about it. I just knew whatever was happening, like you said, you said it perfectly. It wasn't happening to me. It was happening for me for a very big reason. And I feel that reason is now to move my patients beyond that hope to knowing that they too can be fine. Yeah, but we have to be able to just allow our minds to be authentic to self. This. It doesn't mean you always have to be strong. It doesn't mean that I don't cry. In fact, while I was here, my countertop in the hotel, I mean, had a heart. It was in the marble, but it was a natural heart. And I cried. Actually, the other night, I cried so hard. I missed my husband. Like this has been many, many years ago. 2008, he passed away, you know, but I. I missed him. And it's so weird. There's always like these experiences in life, like these little memories or, you know, people can call them God winks. I have a beautiful friend, Katherine Henry, that, that just wrote a book, is going to be released here soon. And she talks about dying moments. And when her partner died, when her wife died, she would find dimes to her dime moments. And I thought, well, this heart was my dime moment, you know, so it was my little God wink. And it was sweet. As I fell asleep the other night, I could swear that I felt like this, like little love or like this little bit of a touch of my shoulder. I don't know, it doesn't matter. But for me, those are little angels just giving me that comfort to know everything's going to be okay. So it's just let other people know. There's never been A book that I found that helped me get through the loss of my husband. And it's something that when I get sad, I just lean into it. It's the persistence of love. And how fortunate am I to have had that beautiful love, even with some people may never have that.
Absolutely. I've never held back tears so much on a podcast, ever. And they're tears of just happiness, beautiful stor of love. And I can just feel it all and see you going through it all and just knowing who you are as a result of all of that. What a joy for me to witness this in front of you. I think that a lot of women, when we think about. And men as well, but just we hear about mindset and gratitude and all of these things, and when we get to our worst moments, our hardest moments, those tend to be the things that we're like, who's got time for that? I can't do that. But we're not thinking about the magic that's happening behind it. So I'm visualizing you in gratitude with grace wrapped around you, making your way to the finish line and just being in gratitude for your body. And then I'm thinking, well, wow, her heart was listening to all of that. When we think about the radio frequency of the heart now expanding beyond you in gratitude, healing your heart while you're doing something challenging. But we have to think about the impact on our physiology, on every single cell in our body that's listening to the gratitude, especially when things are really, really challenging. Again, more training than I wish or insight or protocol, if you want to call it a protocol, that I wish came from a medical community, and I think it will one day. But it's voices like you amplifying that which is key.
Well, your ability to quickly grab that and the words you just said, you. The book I hope you're writing, I hope you take everything you just said there and put that, because that was. That was just stated so beautifully. Thank you. Thank you.
We're working on it. All right. Diving in a little bit deeper. So one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime. And many risk factors fly under the radar. Can you call out what are some of the lesser known risk factors for breast cancer that women should be more aware of?
Yeah, you know, I think we should just look at lifestyle on this. It's so important. So the American Institute for Cancer Research, aicr, is such a rich resource of the actual science that I think women should really look at, and their studies show that it's about 33% of breast cancers can be prevented. That is a gross underestimate. Because if we really step back, we know that 5 to 10% of breast cancers happen because of family history. Another 5 to 10% happen basically because of genetics. So that means on the realm of 75% to 80% happen because of what, because of lifestyle. And some of these factors reverse all the way back to when we're in our mom's womb. This is a big shout out. Oftentimes I work with women during the breast cancer and they'll say, yeah, I want to live healthy, but my family doesn't. And so we should really, at a young age, really want to be active participants in our health and wellness. And the AI sort of maps it out for cancer prevention as well as survivors. And what they say is we want to work towards being a healthy body composition. That doesn't mean bmi, it doesn't mean scale. It means let's keep the body fat lower and let's keep the muscle mass, you know, built up for strength. We know that is really important. You know, coming from the airport into la, oh my gosh, it's like longevity clinic. Everywhere you go, you know, everyone wants these quick fixes, you know, but. And when it comes to muscle, everyone thinks that they can just consume protein, but you've got to exercise, so you've got to move your body, you've got to exercise. You've got to give the bones and muscles a reason to stay strong. The AACR has four that are dedicated to nutrition. And that is really the space I would say I'm most active in. Women have so much confusion and fear around food, especially after their diagnosis. And we know food. The journal of the American Medical association in 2022. Food is a leading cause of death in our country, which isn't a surprise, right? Yeah, you know, in part, it's the ultra processed foods, which is 60% of our diet that we're consuming. Kids, 67%. Those ultra processed foods are weeding out the opportunity for us to get the healthy foods we need. So number one with the ASR is get rid of fast foods. Get rid of these ultra processed foods with sugar and these chemical like ingredients because these chemicals in and of themselves cause problems to our health as well as they're harmful for the gut microbiome. Yeah, you know, yeah, they talk about getting enough vegetables, fruits, whole grains. Next is, you know, trying to limit red meat and avoid processed meat. Very, very important. And then get rid of sugar, sweetened beverages and you know, what fruit Juice is kind of lumped in that, too. A lot of people are like, oh, I drink my juice. Well, you're losing the fiber.
Yeah.
In 95% of men, 91%, we don't get enough fiber. Almost everyone gets enough protein.
Yeah.
As much as that's going to offend every protein advocate out there, I'm not saying don't pay attention to protein. I'm just saying pay attention to fiber. Because the gut microbiome is really the key to so much wisdom of how our body works, both our immune system, our brain health, our metabolism, and beyond. So important. The next is where I lose a lot of friends. And that's what the alcohol like alcohol. And I don't tell people they shouldn't drink, you know, because when you get in a car, you run the risk of eating. You know, life is when you breathe oxygen, it's oxygen do. Life is about a little bit. We're dying with each breath. You know, we shouldn't live in fear. None of this should ever be about fear. It should just be about informed decisions and not maybe overdoing any of those things that could harm you. So with alcohol, I generally advise my patients never drink alone. There's no reason to ever do that. And if you're going to drink, it should only be in moments of grand celebration. And you know, that is not one of the things the American Institute for Cancer Research is loneliness or social connections. But that is one of the pillars lifestyle medicine. And when it comes to alcohol, I kind of like tap it into that. If you're going to drink, do it in social connection with others. Have a fun time and just don't worry about it. If you're going to do it, don't fret about it the next day and limit it to one ladies. So I generally don't want women doing more than one to three drinks a week. And if you're avoiding it, that's probably best. But if you're having a little bit, I don't know, that's going to hurt you. It's kind of like speeding on the highway. I tell my patients with any of these decisions, the speed is posted at 65, you're going 67. You're probably not going to get a ticket. Right. Just the next day, maybe tighten up that seatbelt and just be careful. So those are the main ones. And of course, breastfeeding for women is another one. And then exercise is the biggest one. But we brought that up with the body composition part of it. The majority of Americans are pretty sedentary so we just got to move. That's the AICR recommendation and what they've shown. It was called the vital study, and there was a Swedish mammography study in more of those criteria being met versus women that didn't meet those criteria, they had a 50 to 60% reduction in breast cancer risk.
My. Oh, my gosh.
It's so cool.
Yeah.
You know, so very, very, very preventive. I would say the biggest myth that women come in is soy.
Oh, let's hover on this. Yeah.
I mean, you know, when I talk to doctors, if I'm just being in the comments, I say, I need everyone to listen to me right now. Please put down your pens. Put down your pens. Listen to me. You listen to me, because you're going to be one that's not going to tell your patients this. Soy does not cause breast cancer. It actually reduces the risk of breast cancer. And it's an amazing way to replace some animal protein, which, you know, I already said at the American Institute for Cancer Research, we know that red meat is something we should minimize. I'm not here to try to make everyone vegan, but it would be a healthier choice. So with the soy, we have many decades of data that have informed us that is does no harm. The only study that showed harm was not harm to humans. It was harm to rodents. And we, by the way, are not mice. So we need to be very careful. This is, you know, translation of science from the laboratory, or they call it the bench to the bedside. There was no translation there. That study never should have been done in. Soy binds the estrogen receptor beta preferentially, and that's the area of the breast where it turns off proliferation. So it does bind, but it binds in a very favorable way that we turn off the proliferation. Estrogen receptor alpha is what turns on proliferation. And the soy doesn't like to bind there preferentially. So it's very safe with how the binding occurs. I want my breast cancer patients to enjoy soy one to three times a day. The breast cancer research. And this was published in the 2022American Cancer Society update on nutrition and physical exercise. And there was three paragraphs dedicated to soy and breast cancer. Oh, my God. So for doctors that aren't sure, they're just not paying attention to the science, to the actual studies.
Well, look at the wave of history when we've sensationalized these studies. Right. Typically, they come from, you know, a bigger kind of entity that's trying to create propaganda to work against another industry that's making A lot of money. Bottom line. If we look at areas in the world who are consuming more soy, there aren't elevated rates of cancer.
It's that easy.
It's that easy.
I mean, Mona is. I kind of joke. I'm like, people don't actually need me, by the way. Just apply your common sense to what you eat and listen to what your great grandmother would have told you to do. You don't need a doctor, you don't need me. You know, just it's. And you're a nutritionist. I mean, you're like the most important person who could be speaking to all of this. But I. The food is. Medicine is critical. And, you know, we. There was a great study that was published in Nature in March of this year, 2025, and it answered the question, what is the dietary pattern best for healthy aging? You know, it's not necessarily all this biopacking. It comes to nutrition, and a healthy dietary pattern can contribute to healthy aging 46 to 86%.
100%. So I agree. Right. Fiber is the future, too. You said fiber. And every row that I go back to, for all of my clients, whether they're in keto, paleo, vegan, whatever label they've decided to take on, increasing their fiber intake has been the greatest tool to shift the needle on the biomarkers that come back. And, you know, it's interesting because people who sit in this chair, it's not that there's fear about talking about, you know, animal protein or being a vegan, but I really want to talk to you about the fact that you are a vegan. And when my healing, when I healed, when my heart palpitations virtually stopped, I was vegetarian. And I will call out the, you know, dozen vegans that I'm working with this year, have all come back with the best blood biomarker scores that I've seen in a really, really long time. And we're living in a world where we're sensationalizing protein and getting enough protein. No one's necessarily talking about the sources of protein. And, you know, if you don't have time to cook salad, you don't have time to cook, you know, meat in a way that is going to taste good for you. Right. And the effort that has to go into doing that as well. So talk to us about the studies behind that decision for you and why you continue despite, you know, all the media trends and nutrition wars that are happening, why you continue to stay vegan.
Yeah, I mean, the science is profound, you know, and if you look at carnivore data, there's just no long term studies that show number one, it's safe, you know, and so if you look at carnivore advocates and if you look at vegan advocates, you know, first of all, we should not be evangelistic about what we do. So I just did grand rounds at Mayo Clinic where I spoke to all the Mayo Clinic staff about this and I said, I'm not here to provide promote veganism. I'm not promote here to promote my own preference. I'm going to promote the science. I'm going to bring you the science. And so carnivores will feel better when they become carnivore because they get rid of the fake food. Vegans become much better and feel better because they get rid of the fake foods. Right. So the whole food component about any of these very extremes is kind of why people feel better.
You got it.
Do people need to be vegan? No. This nature study, it had almost 3 million person years. There's no carnivore studies that have that many years. And what it showed us is that yes, the vegetables, fruits, whole grains, the unsaturated fats, the nuts, the beans, and moderate amounts of dairy, that's not vegan. If you look at the American Institute for Cancer Research guidelines and this is where I had some people who were in the audience, May clinic staff that sent me messages, really disappointed that you were okay with fish and disappointed you were okay with dairy. I said, I, if you were listening, I presented the science loud and clear. That's the science. I'm not here to present my bias. I think people can have safe amounts of dairy, especially fermented dairy. I, my preference would be fermented kefir from a goat because it's that a 2 casein, so it's less inflammatory.
Yeah.
So my patients want it. It gives them some variety. It's hard to do a whole food plant only diet. And if you are quote unquote vegan, a lot of times they start to lean in a little more on the fake foods. And I would rather remain whole food. So if someone wants to go to some kefir, fine. I don't think it's going to hurt them. The one question we always need to ask when you're, when your listeners are listening to this is if you hear a study that sounds a little confusing, ask the person presenting it to you, what are you comparing it to? You know, with the dairy. The dairy studies look awful. It's because they're comparing it with the most versus the least. And so maybe down here in the least, there's a little bit of protection. And that's what the American Institute for Cancer Research has shown. It seems like dairy seems to protect a little bit towards breast and colon cancer.
Wow.
Now dairy, if you have a high risk of prostate cancer, ovarian cancer seems to drive the risk of those two. So again, you just want to kind of tailor it. And my message here is just don't overdo it. So I tell my patients one to two servings a day. I see breast cancer patients. We know high fat dairy seems to be problematic for breast cancer survivors. So I typically want them to do low fat dairy. I think we don't have a full understanding of what low fat versus high fat means. You know, some people feel it's more processed and you end up with more sugar that way naturally. But I do low fat dairy, not high fat dairy. There was a wonderful study though, so kind of to say, okay, we have this data saying that if you don't want to be strict, to be whole food, plant only, I don't think that there's a reason I think you can safely do the do some dairy. But there was a nurse's health study published last January, powerful study for women. They asked the most important question that should always be asked in any city. What is the path to healthy aging? Physically, cognitively and mentally? Right. Like, isn't that what we want to know? And what they show plant protein, those who consume more plant protein had a 46% higher healthy aging than dairy or animal protein otherwise.
So we're talking lentils, beans, tofu, stuff like that.
Yeah, Nutritional yeast, quinoa. You know, I know that there's some carnivore advocates, especially like in the women's area, and they'll promote quinoa, that it's more calories, et cetera, et cetera. You know, it kind of depends on what your protein requirement is. I do feel, especially for individuals as they get older, over the age of 65, we don't absorb those amino acids as well. There's still some controversy over this whole insulin growth factor. This is newer. We're not really sure if that research really panned out as much as we originally thought thought it did. Where under the age of 65, insulin growth factor for meat affects you more. And over 65, you're kind of protected from it. I still think that data is something I want to pay attention to in my women over 65. I do want them to be very, very mindful of their protein requirements under 65, I think we don't have to be quite as hard on that because you do have good absorption. But I recommend 1.3 grams to 1.6 grams per kilogram of ideal body.
Okay.
And my women who are over the age of 65, I always want them getting that 1.3. And if they're getting chemo, more like that 1.6. And if I have marathon runners or women who are doing fitness competitions, more like that 1.6. But I never want them to, in an effort to get to that 1.6 grams per kilogram, intentionally eat another chicken breast just to get them. Of course.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
And, you know, that doesn't even touch the quality of their digestion, too, which is an. Another big issue for a lot of people today. Do you use. I consider protein powder a supplement, not a food. Do you use protein powders?
I do use protein powder. It's just for me. I'm very busy. I try not to. I try to do my smoothies with soy milk, and if I do 2 cups of soy milk, that gives me 24 grams of protein. With the soy milk that I use, I do 3 tablespoons of hemp seeds, which is another 10. So right there alone, I have two 34 grams of protein.
Beautiful.
That's great. That's usually where I stick it to, but if I feel like I'm a little bit low because I missed some the day before, I'll do a scoop of a pea. Protein is what I. What I particularly use. But it's processed. It's processed. And so I understand people coming against that. You know, am I better to do pea protein or do a really healthy piece of fish? Hey, I think you have. I think you have a fair argument there. Yeah, I actually would say, ethically speaking, if you're okay with eating the fish, then go ahead. It's not going to hurt you.
I agree with you.
Salmon, sardines, anchovies, herring, all of that, in my opinion, can be part of a healthy diet. We know that fish seems to be one of the six leading causes of death, the omega 3 index. So if we can optimize an omega 3 index, we can reduce cardiovascular disease. And there's a little nuance to that because a lot of vegans said, we'll do the flaxseed. I agree that you cannot take alpha linolenic acid effectively, especially after menopause into dha.
Exactly. Yeah.
And if you are a vegan, you must take algae oil or a DHA supplement is critical.
For your brain health.
I do not ever want to run the risk of someone who is trying to be the healthiest version of themselves in an effort to do that. They're not informed and they're not getting that DHA protection for their brain.
Yeah, I agree with you. The point of asking that question was not to say like to be an advocate for or vegan or not do what's right for you. I feel like if everyone has practiced or tried different modalities, see how your body feels. But you brought up a big point of cut out everything that's ultra processed more, more often than not, that's the biggest thing that's going to shift the needle for people. And in terms of the protein powder too. Yeah. I mean so many of them are ultra processed. Right. But there are some really clean brands that are out there. Always go food first. I'm actually transitioning a lot of clients now off of cow protein to goat. Protein also is being less inflammatory for the body, which is really interesting. But yeah, consider that a supplement and always go food first. I think we're screaming fiber here today.
I agree with you and I love soy. There was another great study with soy menopause and hot flashes. And I know there's a big movement towards using hormones and I'm not anti, even though I'm a breast cancer doctor. If your risk allows for you to be on hormones, by all means, go ahead and go on it. And if your risk is one that suggests you're higher risk, it's still okay. Just make sure you're doing your imaging. But you know, there was a great study that showed a half a cup of edamame a day reduced moderate severe hot flashes by 88% with sugar and these chemical like ingredients because these chemicals in and of themselves cause problems to our health as well as they're harmful for the gut microbiome. They talk about getting enough vegetables for fruits, whole grains. Next is, you know, trying to limit red meat and avoid processed meat. Very, very important. And then get rid of sugar sweetened beverages. And you know what, fruit juice is kind of lumped in that too. A lot of people are like, oh, I drink my juice. Well, you're losing the fiber.
Yeah.
In 95 of men, 91, we don't get enough fiber. Almost everyone gets enough protein. As much as that's going to offend every protein advocate out there. I'm not saying don't pay attention to protein. I'm just saying pay attention to fiber. Because the gut microbiome is really the key to so much wisdom of how our body works, both our immune system, our brain health, our metabolism, and beyond. So important. The next is where I lose a lot of friends. And that's what the alcohol. Sorry, like alcohol. And I don't tell people they shouldn't drink, you know, because when you get in a car, you run the risk of getting. You know, life is when you breathe oxygen, it's oxygen do. Life is about a little bit. We're dying with each breath. You know, we shouldn't live in fear. None of this should ever be about fear. It should just be about informed decisions and not maybe overdoing any of those things that could harm you. So with alcohol, I generally advise my patients never drink alone. There's no reason to ever do that. And if you're going to drink, it should only be in moments of grand celebration. And, you know, that is not one of the things that the American Institute for Cancer Research is loneliness or social connections. But that is one of the pillars lifestyle medicine. And when it comes to alcohol, I kind of like tap it into that. If you're going to drink, do it in social connection with others. Have a fun time and just don't worry about it. If you're going to do it, don't fret about it the next day and limit it to one, ladies. So I generally don't want women doing more than one to three drinks a week. And if you're avoiding it, that's probably best. But if you're having a little bit, I don't know, that's going to hurt you. It's kind of like speeding on the highway. I tell my patients with any of these decisions, the speed is posted at 65, you're going 67, you're probably not going to get a ticket. Right. Just the next day, maybe tighten up that seatbelt and just be careful. So those are the main ones. And of course, breastfeeding for women is another one. And then exercise is the biggest one. But we kind of brought that up with the body composition part of it. And the majority of Americans are pretty sedentary, so we just got to move. So that's the AICR recommendation. And what they've shown in it was called the vital study, and there was a Swedish mammography study. In more of those criteria being met versus women that didn't meet those criteria, they had a 50 to 60% reduction in breast cancer risk.
My. Oh, my gosh, it's so cool. Yeah.
You know, so very, very, very preventive. I would say the biggest myth that Women come in is soy.
Oh, let's hover on this. Yeah.
I mean, you know, when I talk to doctors, if I'm just speaking to the comments, I say, I need everyone to listen to me right now. Please put down your pens. Put down your pens. Listen to me. You listen to me because you're going to be one that's not going to tell your patients this. Soy does not cause breast cancer. It actually reduces the risk of breast cancer. And it's an amazing way to replace some animal protein, which I already said. At the American Institute for Cancer Research, we know that red meat is something we should minimize. I'm not here to try to make everyone vegan, but it would be a healthier choice. With the soy, we have many decades of data that have informed. Informed us that it does no harm. The only study that showed harm was not harm to humans. It was harm to rodents. And we, by the way, are not mice. So we need to be very careful. This is, you know, translation of science from the laboratory, or they call it the bench to the bedside. There was no translation there. That study never should have been done in. Soy binds the estrogen receptor beta preferentially, and that's the area of the breast where it turns off, off proliferation. So it does bind, but it binds in a very favorable way that we turn off the proliferation. Estrogen receptor alpha is what turns on proliferation. And the soy doesn't like to bind there preferentially. So it's very safe with how the binding occurs. I want my breast cancer patients to enjoy soy one to three times a day. The breast cancer research. And this was published in the 2022American Cancer Society update on nutrition and physical exercise. And there was three paragraphs dedicated to soy and breast cancer.
Oh, my God.
So for doctors that aren't sharing this, they're just not paying attention to the science, to the actual studies.
Well, look at the wave of history when we've sensationalized these studies, Right? Typically they come from, you know, a bigger kind of entity that's trying to create propaganda to work against another industry that's making a lot of money. Bottom line, if we look at areas in the world who are consuming more soy, there aren't elevated rates of cancer.
It's that easy.
It's that easy.
I mean, Mona is. I joke. I'm like, people don't actually need me, by the way. Just apply your common sense to what you eat and listen to your great grandmother would have told you to do. You don't need a doctor. You don't need me. You know, just it's. And you're a nutritionist. I mean, you're like the most important person who could be speaking to all of this. But I. The food is. Medicine is critical. And you know, we. There was a great study that was published in Nature in March of this year, 2025, and to answer the question, what is the dietary pattern best for healthy aging? It's not necessarily all this biopacking, but it comes to nutrition. And a healthy dietary pattern can contribute to healthy aging. 46 to 86%.
100%. Yeah, I agree. Fiber is the future too. You said fiber. And every row that I go back to, for all of my clients, whether they are in keto, paleo, vegan, whatever label they've decided to take on increasing their fiber intake has been the, the greatest tool to shift the needle on the biomarkers that come back. And, you know, it's interesting because people who sit in this chair, it's not that there's fear about talking about, you know, animal protein or being a vegan, but I really want to talk to you about the fact that you are a vegan. And when my healing, when I healed, when my heart palpitations virtually stopped, I was vegetarian. And I will call out the, you know, dozen vegans that I'm working with this year have all come back with the best blood biomarker scores that I've seen in a really, really long time. And we're living in a world where we're sensationalizing protein and getting enough protein. No one's necessarily talking about the sources of protein. And, you know, if you don't have time to cook salad, you don't have time to cook, you know, meat in a way that it's going to taste good for you. Right. And the effort that has to go into doing that as well. So talk to us about the studies behind that decision for you and why you continue despite, you know, all the media trends and nutrition wars that are happening, why you continue to stay vegan.
Yeah, I mean, the science is profound, you know, and if you look at carnivore data, there's just no long term studies that show, number one, it's safe, you know, and so if you look at carnivore advocates, and if you look at vegan advocates, you know, first of all, we should not be evangelistic about what we do. So I just did grand rounds at Mayo Clinical Rice Box spoke to all the Mayo Clinic staff about this, and I said, I'm not here to promote veganism. I'm not promote here to promote my own preference. I'm going to promote the science. I'm going to bring you the science. And so carnivores will feel better when they become carnivore because they get rid of the fake food. Vegans become much better and feel better because they get rid of the fake foods. Right. So the whole food component about any of these very extremes is kind of why people feel better.
You got it.
Do people need to be vegan? No. This nature study, it had almost 3 million person years. There's no carnivore studies that have that many years. And what it showed us is that yes, the vegetables, fruits, whole grains, the unsaturated fats, the nuts, the beans, and moderate amounts of dairy, that's not vegan. If you look at the American Institute for Cancer Research guidelines, and this is where I had some people who were in the audience, Mayo clinics sent me messages. Really disappointed that you were okay with fish and disappointed you were okay with dairy. I said I, if you were listening, I presented the science loud and clear. That's the science. I'm not here to present my bias. I think people can have safe amounts of dairy, especially fermented dairy. I my preference would be fermented kefir from a goat because it's that a two casein. So it's less inflammatory.
Yeah.
So my patients want it. It gives them some variety. It's hard to do a whole food plant only diet. And if you are quote unquote vegan, a lot of times they start to lean in a little more on the fake foods. And I would rather remain whole food. So if someone wants to go to some kefir, fine. I don't think it's going to hurt them. The one question we always need to ask when you're, when your listeners are listening to this is if you hear a study that sounds a little confusing, ask the person presenting it to you. What are you comparing it to? You know, with the dairy. The dairy studies look awful. It's because they're comparing it with the most versus the least. And so maybe down here in the least there's a little bit of protection. And that's what the American Institute for Cancer Research has shown. It seems like dairy seems to protect a little bit towards breast and colon cancer.
Wow.
Now dairy, if you have a high risk of prostate cancer, ovarian cancer seems to drive the risk of those two. So again, you just want to kind of tailor it. And my message here is just don't overdo it. So I Tell my patients one to two servings a day. I see breast cancer patients. We know high fat dairy seems to be problematic for breast cancer survivors. So I typically want them to do low fat dairy. I think we don't have a full understanding of what low fat versus high fat means. You know, some people feel it's more processed and you end up with more sugar that way naturally. But I do low fat dairy, not high fat dairy. There was a wonderful study though, so kind of to say, okay, we have this data saying that if you don't want to be strict, to be whole food, plant only. I don't think that there's a reason I think you can safely do the do some dairy. But there was a nurse's health study published last January, powerful study for women. They asked the most important question that should always be asked in any study. What is the path to healthy aging? Physically, cognitively and mentally. Right. Like, isn't that what we want to know? And what they show plant protein. Those who consume more plant protein had a 46% higher healthy aging than dairy or animal protein otherwise.
So we're talking lentils, beans, tofu, stuff like that. Yeah.
Nutritional yeast, quinoa. You know, I know that there are some carnivore advocates, especially like in the women's area, and they'll promote quinoa, that it's more calories, et cetera, et cetera. You know, it kind of depends on what your protein requirement is. I do feel, especially for individuals as they get older, over the age of 65, we don't absorb those amino acids as well. There's still some controversy over this whole insulin growth factor. This is newer. We're not really sure if that research really panned out as much as we originally thought it did. Where under the age of 65, insulin growth factor for me affects you more. And over 65, you're kind of protected from it. I still think that data is something I want to pay attention to in my women over 65, I do want them to be very, very mindful of their protein requirements under 65. I think we don't have to be quite as hard on that because you drive good absorption. But I recommend 1.3 grams to 1.6 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight, not what your body weight is.
Okay.
In my women who are over the age of 65, I always want them getting that 1.3. And if they're getting chemo more like that 1.6. And if I have marathon runners or women who are doing fitness competitions, more like that 1.6. But I never want them to, in an effort to get to that 1.6 grams per kilogram, intentionally eat another chicken breast just to get themselves there. Of course.
Yeah, you know, oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And you know, that doesn't even touch the quality of their digestion too, which is another big issue for a lot of people today. Do you use, I, I consider protein powder a supplement, not a food. Do you use protein powders?
I do use protein powder. It's just for me. I'm very busy. I try not to, I try to do my smoothies with soy milk and if I do too, cups of soy milk. That gives me 24 grams of protein with the soy milk that I use.
Yeah.
I do 3 tablespoons of hemp seeds, which is another 10. So right there alone I have 34 grams of protein.
Beautiful.
That's usually right. Stick it to. But if I feel like I'm a little bit low because I missed some the day before, I'll do a scoop of a pea. Protein is what I, what I particularly use. But it's processed. It's processed. And so I understand people coming against that. You know, am I better to do pea protein or do a really healthy piece of fish? Hey, I think you have, I think you have a fair argument there. Yeah, I actually would say, ethically speaking.
If you're okay with protein, no one's necessarily talking about the sources of protein. And you know, if you don't have time to cook salad, you don't have time to cook, you know, meat in a way that is going to taste good for you. Right. And the effort that has to go into doing that as well. So talk to us about the studies behind that decision for you and why you continue despite, you know, all the media trends and nutrition wars that are happening, why you continue to stay vegan.
Yeah, I mean, the science is profound, you know, and if you look at carnivore data, there's just no long term studies that show number one, it's safe, you know, and so if you look at carnivore advocates and if you look at vegan advocates, you know, first of all, we should not be evangelistic about what we do. So I just did grand rounds at Mayo Clinic where I spoke, spoke to all the Mayo Clinic staff about this and I said, I'm not here to put promote veganism. I'm not promote, here to promote my own preference. I'm going to promote the science. I'm going to bring you the science. And so carnivores will feel better when they become carnivore because they get rid of the fake food. Vegans become much better and feel better because they get rid of the fake foods. Right. So the whole food component about any of these very extremes is kind of why people feel better. Do people need to be vegan? No. This nature study, it had almost 3 million person years. There's no carnivore studies that have that many years. And what it showed us is that yes, the vegetables, fruits, whole grains, the unsaturated fats, the nuts, the beans, and moderate amounts of dairy, that's not vegan. If you look at the American Institute for Cancer Research guidelines, and this is where I had some people who were in the audience, May clinic staff that sent me messages. Really disappointed that you were okay with fish and disappointed you were okay with dairy. I said I. If you were listening, I presented the science loud and clear. That's the science. I'm not here to present my bias. I think people can have safe amounts of dairy, especially fermented dairy. I my preference would be fermented kefir from a goat because it's that a 2 casein, so it's less inflammatory.
Yeah.
So my patients want it. It gives them some variety. It's hard to do a whole food plant only diet. And if you are quote unquote vegan, a lot of times they start to lean in a little more on the fake foods. And I would rather remain whole food. So if someone wants to go to some kefir, fine. I don't think it's going to hurt them. The one question we always need to ask when you're, when your listeners are listening to this is if you hear a study that sounds a little confusing, ask the person presenting it to you. What are you comparing it to? You know, with the dairy, the dairy studies look awful. It's because they're comparing it with the most versus the least. And so maybe down here in the least there's a little bit of protection. And that's what the American Institute for Cancer Research has shown. It seems like dairy seems to protect a little bit towards breast and colon cancer.
Wow.
Now dairy, if you have a high risk of prostate cancer, ovarian cancer seems to drive the risk of those two. So again, you just want to kind of tailor it. And my message here is just don't overdo it. So I tell my patients one to two servings a day. I see breast cancer patients, we know high fat dairy seems to be problematic for breast cancer survivors. So I typically Want them to do low fat dairy. I think we don't have a full understanding of what low fat versus high fat means. You know, some people feel it's more processed and you end up with more sugar that way naturally. But I do low fat dairy, not high fat dairy. There was a wonderful study though, so kind of to say, okay, we have this data saying that if you don't want to be strict, to be whole food, plant only, I don't think that there's a reason I think you can safely do the do some dairy. But there was a nurses health study published last January, powerful study for women. They asked the most important question that should always be asked in any city. What is the path to healthy aging? Physically, cognitively and mentally. Right. Like, isn't that what we want to know? And what they show plant protein, those who consume more plant protein had a 46% higher healthy aging than dairy or animal protein otherwise.
So we're talking lentils, beans, tofu, stuff like that. Yeah.
Nutritional yeast, quinoa. You know, I know that there are some classes, carnivore advocates especially like in the women's area, and they'll promote quinoa, that it's more calories, et cetera, et cetera. You know, it kind of depends on what your protein requirement is. I do feel, especially for individuals as they get older, over the age of 65, we don't absorb those amino acids as well. There's still some controversy over this whole insulin growth factor. This is newer. We're not really sure if that research really panned out as much as we originally thought it did. Where under the age of 65, insulin growth factor for me affects you more. And over 65, you're kind of protected from it. I still think that data is something I want to pay attention to in my women over 65, I do want them to be very, very mindful of their protein.
Absolutely.
Under 65, I think we don't have to be quite as hard on that because you do have good absorption. But I recommend 1.3 grams to 1.6 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight, not what your body weight is.
Okay.
And my women who are over the age of 65, I always want them getting that 1.3. And if they're getting chemo more like that 1.6. And if I have marathon runners or women who are doing fitness competitions, more like that 1.6. But I never want them to, in an effort to get to that 1.6 grams per kilogram, intentionally eat another chicken breast. Just to get them, of course.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And, you know, that doesn't even touch the quality of their digestion, too, which is another big issue for a lot of people today. Do you use. I consider protein powder a supplement, not a food. Do you use protein powders?
I do use protein powder. It's just for me. I'm very busy. I try not to. I try to do my smoothies with soy milk, and if I do 2 cups of soy milk, that gives me 24 grams of protein. Soy milk that I use, I do 3 tablespoons of hemp seeds, which is another 10. So right there alone, I have 34 grams of protein.
Beautiful.
That's great. That's usually right. Stick it to. But if I feel like I'm a little bit low because I missed some the day before, I'll do a scoop of a pea. Protein is what I. What I particularly use. But it's processed. It's processed. So I understand people coming against that. You know, am I better to do pea protein or to do a really healthy piece of fish? Hey, I think. I think you have a fair argument there.
Yeah.
I actually would say, ethically speaking, if you're okay with eating to fish, then go ahead. It's not going to hurt you.
I agree with you.
Salmon, sardines, anchovies, herring, all of that, in my opinion, can be part of a healthy diet. We know that fish seems to be one of the six leading causes of death, the omega 3 index. So if we can optimize an omega 3 index, we can reduce cardiovascular fish. Hey, I think you have. I think you have a fair argument there. Yeah, I actually would say, ethically speaking, if you're okay with eating the fish, then go ahead. It's not going to hurt. Hurt you.
I agree with you.
You have salmon, sardines, anchovies, herring. All of that, in my opinion, can be part of a healthy diet. We know that fish seems to be one of the six disease. And it. There. There's a little nuance to that because a lot of vegans said, we'll do the flaxseed. I agree that you cannot take alpha linolenic acid effectively, especially after menopause into dha.
Exactly. Yeah.
And if you are a vegan, you must take algae or oil or a DHA supplement is critical for your brain health. I do not ever want to run the risk of someone who is trying to be the healthiest version of themselves. And in an effort to do that, they're not informed and they're not getting that DHA protection for their brain.
Yeah, I agree with you. The point of asking that question was not to say like to be an advocate for vegan or not do what's right for you. I feel like if everyone has practiced or tried different modalities, see how your body feels. But you brought up a big point of cut out everything that's ultra processed more, more often than not, that's the biggest thing that's going to shift the needle for people. And in terms of the protein powder too. Yeah. I mean so many of them are ultra processed. Right. But there are some really clean brands that are out there. Always go food first. I'm actually transitioning a lot of clients now off of cow protein to goat protein also is being less inflammatory for the body which is really interesting. But yeah, consider that a supplement and always go food first. I think we're screaming fiber here today.
I agree with you and I love soy. There was another great study with soy, you know, menopause and hot flashes and I know there's a big movement towards.
You Always go food first. I think we're screaming fiber here today.
Using hormones and I'm not anti. Even though a breast cancer doctor. If your risk allows for you to be on hormones, by all means go ahead and go on it. And if your risk is one that suggests you're higher risk, it's still okay. Just make sure you're doing your imaging. But you know there was a great study that showed a half a cup of edamame a day reduced moderate to severe hot flashes by 88% and it also improved mood, improved libido and the women were on a plant based diet. They lost eight pounds.
Small study. Half a cup of edamame a day.
Yeah, that's how I control my hot flashes. And when I travel I take the soy nuts because the hot flashes come back. So it's really, really. And it's what I use in all my women. Number one for hot flash management. And my women are on anti estrogen so they're in super physiologic menopause. Their hot flashes are quite dramatic. I have breast cancer patients age 20, all the way up to 90. You know, they're of all ages and they all get hot flashes. Doesn't mean they all have to, but they all are. Most of them are having some and so the soy gets rid of it. Really nice little magnesium helps. I do things like acupuncture for hot flashes and stuff on and so forth. But I really use a lifestyle to help control those hot Flashes.
Beautiful. More of that. You'd mentioned imaging for our listeners. There's also a lot of confusion around detection. Right?
Yeah.
Early detection, you've mentioned a few times, is essential. And key. How early is too early to start testing? And after that, you know, mammograms, ultrasounds, sonograms, MRIs.
This is a great question, Mona. Thanks for asking it. You know, October is breast cancer month, so it's always a fun time of year when that rolls around. At Mayo Clinic, we recommend starting annual mammograms at the age of 40, and that is if you do not have a family history of young women having breast cancer. If you have a relative who had breast cancer at a young age, you would want to then start your mammogram 10 years younger than the youngest relative diagnosed or at 40. That's where you would start your mammogram. The goal with mammogram is to find cancer early when it's easier to treat. Women will say, but there's harm. You're giving radiation false positives, X, Y, and Z. The radiation is less than getting an airplane. I mean, at the end of the day, that early detection matters. This week, every single new patient I had was under the age of 45.
Wow.
There is a dramatic rise in cancers in women from the age of 40 to 49 in both colon and breast cancer. I am here to say, please do your mammograms. I know some women may want to do thermography. Those studies just have not been validated. So for me, I recommend mammogram is holistic as I am. I recommend mammogram if you are a woman with an elevated risk or if you do have increased breast density. Those would be situations that you would want to do mri. That's what we do at Mayo Clinic in those situations. I know some centers do whole breast ultrasound. We opt not to do that. We go a step a little bit bigger with the mri, which it has the highest cancer detection. And I really do believe in that. At Mayo Clinic, we want both a mammogram paired with the mri. So what I like to do is to do it every six months. Mammogram, six months later, mri.
Okay.
The mammogram, six months later, mri. If you're a woman, that's eligible for that MRI screening. If you're a young woman who has a gene mutation, we want to start imaging in those women, you know, around the age of 30 with mammogram. But if they have a BRCA gene and they're Young. And so they find out at 25. We'll start those MRIs at young age. But mammogram typically never younger than the age of 30 is about the age we start those. Unless someone feels a lump or something, then there may be a reason to do a mammogram at a younger age. There's so, so dense at a younger age. It doesn't give us a real clear image.
I'm hearing more too also about, and maybe, I don't know if this is a modern world issue, but dense breast tissue, is that something that you've seen evolve, decrease, lessen? Is that just a myth? But it seems like more women are reporting more dense breast tissue. Is that true?
You are asking an awesome question. So now it is basically the government we need to release to women with their breast density is. So now those notifications are sent out where before it was never something that needed to be reported. So we know that under the age of 50, you know, when you are still menopausal and having that estrogen stimulation, it's common to have increased breast density. And then a lot of women go on into their menopause years and their breast density normalizes. You know, that's just part of not having the estrogen present. If you're on hormone replacement therapy, it's likely that your breast density will continue to remain elevated. And breast density is actually a driver. It does increase the risk of breast cancer a little bit. So if a woman has heterogeneously dense breasts or extremely dense breast, those are considered the increased breast density. Women with scattered, fibro, glandular or fatty replace breasts or normal breast density. And I will say this, over the next five to 10 years, this conversation is probably going to really evolve. You know, we have different early detections, we have blood tests now with circulating tumor DNAs. So I am super excited to see what comes in the future. And I do think that mammograms will be replaced probably with better things. And that's going to be great for women. But for right now, because I see what I see, I stand 100% behind mammograms.
Okay, I'm with you.
Great question.
Well, it's interesting though, like I'm in my mid-40s and this is the first time that I'm hearing this. And isn't it wild that this just, it's not part of our education as women from a very young age, since prevention and early detection is such a big thing to know what to look out for. So thank you for shedding light on that. I think this is another message that needs to be amplified as well. So earlier detection definitely key. Get your mammograms, book your appointments, talk to your girlfriends about it as well. Hold each other accountable. I know we're all really, really busy.
And know your breasts. Something feels different. Go see your doctor.
Yeah.
You know, look in the mirror if, if you notice some dimpling, if you have a pain. Usually pain, by the way, is never cancer. It's almost never cancer. But if something feels different, still have it checked out. Don't live in fear, just go have it validated. Find out what's going on. Let them do imaging. If you go see a doctor and you're having something with your breast and they say, oh, it's nothing, go see another doctor. Because I have had that happen where women have reported their breast concern and the doctor dismisses it, oh, you're too young, nothing would happen. Like I said, I have a 20 year old with breast cancer. And just because you're healthy doesn't mean you get out of the cancer path. Sometimes things still happen. There's a lot of environmental exposures. Women are having babies at the young age. We used to, you'd asked, you know, early on we talked just about lifestyle. But having a baby, you know, between the age of 20 to 25 gives you a lot of protection to the breasts. No one does that anymore. Women are doing their fertility treatments and harvesting eggs so that they can have their babies well under their 40s. And we know that that actually tends to increase the risk of breast cancer just a little bit because the breasts are expecting natural proliferation with childbirth at a young age, not at an older age. That's when the breast is like, I'm done. But yet we're stimulating at a later age. So childbirth at a young age and then breastfeeding is very protective for women. But our modern lifestyle has kind of that narrative.
Absolutely. Are you doing genetic testing with your patients?
We do a lot of that at Mayo Clinic. And especially if there's a family history of breast cancer, if there's a family history of breast cancer, it's always best to have your relative who had breast cancer test.
Right.
That's really best. If you're Ashkenazi Jewish, that's an increased risk of the BRCA gene. That's another good reason. If you have a family history of breast cancer, that individual passed away, then you should talk to your doctor if you're eligible to have that checked, Especially if it was a younger breast cancer. Women who have had breast cancers in both breasts, that tends to carry along a really high risk profile as well. And having the knowledge that you had a gene doesn't mean you're definitely going to get it. It just means let's find out what your risk is. Is it an elevated risk such that we may even consider prophylactic surgeries, or is it one that we just want to do this elevated imaging and it doesn't mean you have to do the surgery? For women at elevated risk, we know that the survival is the same. That's such an ugly word. I know how that sounds, but just to do imaging in those women.
Absolutely. Yeah. And it's just information. Like, I think this is one of the gifts of modern medicine. If you can get more information, information about your biology. So many people that I work with have these strange little genetic deficiencies that give us so many answers. How to guide their nutrition, how to guide their lifestyle and stuff like that. So why not do it? Right?
Yeah, you can do it.
Do it. We've talked about the importance of diet as being a form of prevention. We've talked about movement. We talked about mindset. Let's just go over supplementation. I actually met you through an incredible company, Im8, that you and I are lucky to be a part of. And you're such an incredible educator for them. And it's a supplement that I'm really excited to put out into the world. And so many of my clients are just loving, loving, taking it, enjoying it, seeing and feeling a difference. But I think there's also, in this wild, wild west of supplementation, brands with, like, no history of or experience working in the field are launching these products. And they're backed by a lot of money and ads that make us think that we need to be taking things. We'll talk about the difference of imh, but could we talk about in terms of, like, maybe the lens of cancer? Taking more doesn't mean prevention. Taking more from my lens out of fear means that fear is in your body and you're doing things. That's what's resonating within you. It's going to counteract the effect of whatever it is that you're taking. And no one is talking about the how certain herbs and vitamins and minerals that you might be taking are contradicting each other and they might not even be beneficial. You might not even need them. You just have expensive pee.
I love how you frame that and I love that you're part of IMA with us. You're my favorite one out there helping to educate Folks, So thanks for all you're doing with ima. And it's really such a privilege to be part of the IMA team. Brought IMA onto Mayo Clinic Ventures. So we're doing that research right at Mayo Clinic with part of that product development. And that's, you know, the number one hospital in the world. So it's really awesome to have this solid science. And I do not know of any other supplement company has ever made that investment into an academic institution to drive that science forward in that product development. So it feels really good. You know, coming from that background of exercise physiology and nutrition, I was really heavy in that space of ergogenic AIDS in the early 1990s. And so this was like a dream come true. It was like, oh, my gosh, this is why I lived to do this. I made. Not only can I help to tailor solutions for my patients, but for myself too, you know, kind of selfishly, right? And then, like, these amazing athletes like arena, as well as David Beckham and there's so many other amazing athletes that are using the product and doing amazing. In fact, there's one whole story. Gabby Dabrowski. She's one of my patients. Her story is open. She's a breast cancer survivor, and she is really one of those individuals I was sharing that story about, hey, if you feel something and you tell someone and they ignore it because you're young, go see someone else. That's exactly what she did. She told a doctor, they ignored her, and then she ends up getting a more advanced breast cancer. Amazing. And this woman just played at Wimbledon. I mean, she's a tennis Olympian. I talk about an inspiration. Follow her. Gabby Dabrowski. And she also uses ima. So it's really cool to have these solutions for my patients as well as professional athletes. But 95% of Americans have a nutrient gap mostly because they're not eating healthy diets. But even you and I eating a really healthy diet. I want to make a big apology. I used to tell people I ate the perfect diet. That was my ego speaking, by the way. We don't know what a perfect diet really is. We are not, in place of individual medicine, say, hey, you really should be eating X, Y and Z. We'll get there. But there's no perfect diet. We just do our best. Be consistent with eating the healthiest food that we know is healthy for you. But there is no supplement that will correct for an unhealthy diet that even the healthiest of diets have nutrient gaps. And about 95% of Americans have one vitamin D is one of the biggest. And you know vitamin D, we know that vitamin D deficiency can really drive dementia risk. It's crazy. So vitamin D is not a vitamin, it's a hormone. So have your Doctors check vitamin D3. And I find that my women, especially on aromatase inhibitors, which is anti estrogen medication that can cause a lot of achy. I find trying to keep that vitamin D level a little bit higher than normal, about 10 points higher than the normal range, up to 20 points higher than the normal range helps them to feel better. Now they're not going into the abnormal range doing that. But when I say ranges, it kind of depends on what part of the world you're living in. I keep my patients around 55 is where I keep them. We don't want to go too high because then you run the risk of kidney stones. There's actually some suggestion if you go too high with vitamin D. Getting enough vitamin D, we're to going reduce the risk of bone fractures. But if you get too much, there may even be this nuance that you can start to increase the risk. We call that a U shaped curve or a J shaped curve. Kind of interesting science, but vitamin D deficiency. 50% of Americans low in magnesium.
Yeah.
Magic for U.S. women.
Absolutely.
But you know, there's many other vitamin deficiencies I see in my clinical practice because I check micronutrient levels. I see a lot of selenium deficiencies and I see a lot of zinc deficiency.
Yeah.
The one thing in a multivitamin that I want people to be very careful with is iron. You know, and this is common among the cancer population because individuals are on treatment, they become anemic and they associate I'm anemic with I'm IR deficient. That's not necessarily the case. Anemia is caused from all different kinds of reasons. If you're on chemo, you're probably anemic because the chemo is really impacting the bone marrow. It doesn't mean iron defense deficient and iron is oxidative. It's the last thing I want a person to take unless they have confirmed iron deficiency.
Right.
So do not take iron supplements in your multivitamin unless your doctor confirms that you're iron deficient. Vegans, menstruating women, that would be the population that can tend to be a little bit more iron deficient. But men, postmenopausal women.
Right.
You don't, you shouldn't need extra iron. You really, really shouldn't. So that's a huge shout out I am a big advocate towards methylfolate, not folic acid. I'm actually worried about folic acid accumulation. 66% of the population has that MTHFR mutation. I don't check that in my population. I just assume everyone is likely going to have it because it's a larger portion of the population. So I like methylfolate in the multivitamins, not folic acid. It does worry me especially in all.
Those prenatals.
A woman gets pregnant and they say here, take this much folic acid or they're on methotrexate, take 1 gram of folic acid and that is the population. A lot of times the autoimmune that has the mth, my mom, please take methylfolate. It's very, very important. So I love that the IMA has the methylfolate in it. It also has the methyl B12 which, you know, methylation. We tend to have a little bit of a problem with methylation with our rapid, fast paced lifestyles, not eating healthy. So a little bit of a methyl group can also be helpful. When we think of that methylation we think of a biomarker called homocysteine. I think that's another really important take or supplement homocysteine per se. But it's a marker of the folate saturation, the B12, saturation, the B6 and then that, that entire methylation process. So I like, I always check homocysteine levels in my patients. It's almost never cancer but if something feels different, still have it checked out. Don't live in fear, just go have it validated, find out what's going on, let them do imaging. If you go see a doctor and you're having something with your breast and they say oh it's nothing, go see another doctor. Because I have had that happen where women have reported their breast concern and the doctor dismisses it, oh, you're too young, nothing would happen. Like I said, I have a 20 year old with breast cancer and just because you're healthy doesn't mean you get out of the cancer path. Sometimes things still happen. There's a lot of environmental exposures. Women are having babies at the young age. We used to, you had asked, you know, early on we talked just about lifestyle. But having a baby, you know, between the age of 20 to 25 gives you a lot of protection to the breasts. No one does that anymore. Women are doing their fertility treatments and harvesting eggs so that they can have their babies well under their 40s. And we know that that actually tends to increase Risk of breast cancer. Breast cancer, just a little bit. Because the breasts are expecting natural proliferation with childbirth at a young age, not at an older age. That's when the breast is like, I'm done. But yet we're stimulating at a later age. So childbirth at a young age and then breastfeeding is very protective for women. But our modern lifestyle has kind of narrated.
Absolutely. Are you doing genetic testing with your patients?
We do a lot of that at Mayo Clinic. And especially if there's a family history of breast cancer, if there's a family history of breast cancer, it's always best to have your relative who had breast cancer test.
Right.
That's really best. If you're Ashkenazi Jewish, that's an increased risk of the BRCA gene. That's another good reason. If you have a family history of breast cancer, that individual passed away, then you should talk to your doctor if you're eligible to have that checked. Especially if it was a younger breast cancer. Women who have had breast cancers in both breasts, that tends to carry along a really high risk profile as well. And having the knowledge that you had a gene doesn't mean you're definitely going to get it. It just means, let's find out what your risk is. Is it an elevated risk such that we may even consider prophylactic surgeries, or is it one that we just want to do this elevated imaging and it doesn't mean you have to do the surgery? For women at elevated risk, we know that the survival is the same. That's such an ugly word. I know how that sounds, but just to do imaging in those women.
Absolutely. Yeah. And it's just information. Like, I think this is one of the gifts of modern medicine. If you can get more information about your biology. So many people that I work with have these strange little genetic deficiencies that give us so many answers. How to guide their nutrition, how to guide their lifestyle and stuff like that. So why not do it? Right? Yeah, you can do it. Do it. We've talked about the importance of diet as being a form of prevention. We've talked about movement, we talked about mindset. Let's just go over supplementation. I actually met you through incredible company Im8 that you and I are lucky to be a part of. And you're such an incredible educator for them. And it's a supplement that I'm really excited to put out into the world. And so many of my clients are just loving, loving, taking it, enjoying it, seeing and feeling a difference. But I think there's also, in this Wild wild west of supplementation brands with like no history of or experience working in the field or launching these products. And they're backed by a lot of money and ads that make us think that we need to be taking things.
Things.
We'll talk about the difference of imh, but can we talk about in terms of like, maybe the lens of cancer? Taking more doesn't mean prevention. Taking more from my lens out of fear means that fear is in your body and you're doing things. That's what's resonating within you. It's going to counteract the effect of whatever it is that you're taking. And no one is talking about the how certain herbs and vitamins and minerals that you might be taking are contradicting each other. They might be beneficial. You might not even need them. You just have expensive pee.
I love how you frame that and I love that you're part of IMA with us. You're my favorite one out there helping to educate folks. So thanks for all you're doing with ima. And it's really such a privilege to be part of the IMA team. Brought IMA onto Mayo Clinic Ventures. So we're doing that research right at Mayo Clinic with part of that product development. And that's, you know, the number one hospital in the world. World. So it's really awesome to have this solid science. And I do not know of any other supplement company has ever made that investment into an academic institution to drive that science forward in that product development. So it feels really good. You know, coming from that background in exercise physiology and nutrition, I was really heavy in that space of ergogenic AIDS in the early 1990s. And so this was like a dream come true. It was like, oh my gosh, this is why I lived to do this. Ima. Not only can I help to tailor solutions for my patients, but for myself, not as selfishly, right? And then like these amazing athletes like arena, as well as David Beckham and there's so many other amazing athletes that are using the product and doing amazing. In fact, there's one whole story. Gabby Dabrowski, she's one of my patients. Her story is open. She's a breast cancer survivor and she is one of those individuals I was sharing that story about, hey, if you feel something and you tell someone and they ignore, ignore it because you're young, go see someone else. That's exactly what she did. She told a doctor, they ignored her, and then she ends up getting a more advanced breast cancer. Amazing. And this woman just played At Wimbledon. I mean, she's a tennis Olympian. Talk about an inspiration. Follow her. Gabby Dabrowski. And she also uses ima. So it's really cool to have these solutions for my patients as well as professional athletes. But 95% of Americans have a nutrient gap, mostly because we're not eating healthy diets. But even you and I eating a good, really a really healthy diet. You know, I want to make a big apology. I used to tell people, you know, I ate the perfect diet. That was my ego speaking, by the way. We don't know what a perfect diet really is. You know, we are not in the place of individual medicine, say, hey, you really should be eating X, Y and Z. We'll get there. But there's no perfect diet. We just do our best. Be consistent with eating the healthiest food that we know is healthy for you. But there is no supplement that will correct for an unhealthy diet. And even the healthiest of diets have nutrient gaps. And about 95% of Americans have one. Vitamin D is one of the biggest. And you know, vitamin D, we know that vitamin D deficiency can really drive dementia risk crazy. So vitamin D is not a vitamin, it's a hormone. So have your Doctors check vitamin D3. And I find that my women, especially on aromatase inhibitors, which is anti estrogen medication that can cause a lot of achiness in some women, I find trying to keep that vitamin D level a little bit higher than normal, about 10 points higher than the normal range, up to 20 points higher than the normal range. Helps them to feel better. Now they're not going into the abnormal range doing that. But when I say ranges, it kind of depends on what part of the world you're living in. I keep my patients around 55 is where I keep them. We don't want to go too high because then you run the risk of kidney stones. There's actually some suggestion if you go too high with vitamin D, you know, getting enough vitamin D, you reduce the risk of bone fractures. But if you get too much, there may even be this nuance that you can start to increase. We call that a U shaped curve or a J shaped curve. Kind of interesting science, but vitamin D deficiency, 50% of Americans low in magnesium.
Yeah.
Magic for us as well.
Absolutely.
But you know, there's many other vitamin deficiencies I see in my clinical practice because I check micronutrient levels. I see a lot of selenium deficiency and I see a lot of zinc deficiency.
Yeah.
The one thing in a multivitamin that I want people to be very careful with is iron, you know, and this is common among the cancer population because individuals are on treatment, they become anemic and they associate I'm anemic with I'm iron deficient. That's not necessarily the case. Anemia is caused from all different kinds of reasons. If you're on chemo, you're probably anemic because the chemo is really impacting the bone marrow. It doesn't mean you're iron deficient and iron is oxidative. It's the last thing I want a person to take unless they have confirmed iron deficiency.
Right.
So do not take iron supplements in your multivitamin unless your doctor confirms that you're iron deficient. Vegans, menstruating women, that would be the population that can tend to be a little bit more iron deficient. But men, postmenopausal women, right, you don't, you shouldn't need extra iron. You really, really shouldn't. So that's a huge shout out. I am a big advocate towards methylfolate, not folic acid. I'm actually worried about folic acid in the accumulation. 66% of the population has that MTHFR mutation. I don't check that my population, I just assume everyone is likely going to have it because it's a larger portion of the population. So I like methylfolate in the multivitamins, not folic acid. It does worry me, especially in all.
Those prenatals.
A woman gets pregnant and they say here, take this much folic acid or they're on methotrexate. Take 1 gram of folic acids and that is a population. A lot of times the autoimmune that has my mom, please take methylfolate. It's very, very important. So I love that the IMA has the methylfolate in it. It also has the methyl B12 which, you know, methylation. We tend to have a little bit of a problem with methylation with our rapid, fast paced lifestyles, not eating healthy. So a little bit of a methyl group can also be helpful. When we think of that methylation, we think of a biomarker called homocysteine. I think that's another really important test. Take or supplement homocysteine per se. But it's a marker of the folate saturation, the B12 saturation, the B6 and then that, that entire methylation process. So I like, I always check homocysteine levels in my patients, try to keep them between six to eight is where I try to keep them definitely less than 10. I think that's important. The IM8 is magical though, because it has clinical doses of CoQ10. You know, over 40 million Americans take statins. Statins drive down CoQ10 levels, which in and of itself can be an independent concern for dementia. I'm not here to suggest that statins cause dementia. I'm saying that statins lower CoQ10 levels, which can be a problem. Just normal aging lowers.
Yeah. Well, look at the rates of cardiovascular disease amongst men and women, especially as we age. Right. It's essential. Yeah. So get your levels checked, work with a practitioner to figure out what you actually need to be taking brands like ima. It's something that I can really get behind because it really addresses every single system within the body and the clinical studies that they have behind it and having scientists and doctors like you behind it, looking at dosages and stuff like that is just something that it can really get behind. So, yeah, I'm happy we're able to have her on that today.
I am too.
Yeah, I'm happy.
We have a solution for people that we trust and then it's purity tested. So it's with urofins and nsf, which is critical.
NSF certified. Yeah.
Not heavy metals, not microplastics. The dose you're getting is the dose that you are receiving and I cannot drive that home, especially being in clinical practice, seeing people on other supplements. Just this past week I had one woman with drug or herb associated from her supplement, lupus, as well as some kidney damage, and I have another one with a liver and kidney damage from her supplement. So, you know, this is just a shout out. It doesn't have to necessarily be ima. Of course, I'm preferential towards that because we sign it. But get one that's NSF or Eurofins certified, so you have that purity tested from a third party. Very, very important herbs. It's the wild west out there, so you want to be careful.
You got it. Yeah. And it's one scoop. For those of you who don't know, it's just one scoop a day. That's all you need. So it really simplifies the supplement game in your world for everyone that's busy out there. I can't wait to have you back.
This is amazing.
I can't wait to see you next week. I could talk to you for hours. Let's close with some rapid fire questions. But first I want people to know, where can they find you? How can they follow you? How can they learn more about you?
Thank you so much, Mona. This is really fun. So I'm @Doctor Dr. Don Musalim on Instagram. I'm also on LinkedIn, but I do have a very heavy clinical practice. So I try to be active on Instagram, but I'm not necessarily a social media influencer. That's really. I really admire everyone who is is because it takes a lot of work and a lot of talent. It's a hard thing to do. So I'm not very good at Instagram, but I'm trying my best. So anyways, you can find me there and I'm going to share the link with you because the fourth Monday of each month at noon Eastern time, I do a free education session for anyone. It's basically how to live healthy during and after cancer diagnosis. But if you've never had cancer, it would still apply to prevention as well. So I'll share that link with you. I'm doing it anyway, so anyone's welcome to join me and we'll get down and dirty about healthy living. So. So it's really exciting.
I'm so happy you brought that up.
Thank you.
We'll put that in the show Notes for everyone. What a great resource as well. I'll put that into my academy. Thank you. Okay, so to wrap things up, rapid fire questions. What is one of the most common mistakes or misconceptions that you're seeing people make with their health?
The most common thing I see the mistake is they take healthy living recommendations and they become turbulent, or you said it earlier, they live and they're doing it out of fear. Do it because you love yourself, because you love life and you want to just like lean into this higher level of existence. Because I see a lot of women eating a perfect diet, what they feel is a perfect diet. And they're doing it in fear. And they're so uptight and they're so scared and they're so nervous of hurting themselves. You can't do it wrong. Just do your best. This does not need to be about perfection either. Right. And remove your ego, you know? So don't do what you're doing because you, you think it's the newest fat or trend, you need to stick to it. Just really try to stick to that overall balanced, healthy diet. So that would be my biggest thing. And when you do it, do it because you love it. You're doing it to nourish your body. Every time you have the chance to feed your body, it's a chance to really help your body feel better or it can maybe harm Your body. So, you know, if it's Labor Day and you want to have a hamburger, well, that's your decision. I don't think having one hamburger is going to hurt you. So enjoy it, but maybe don't throw the whole meal away. Still do some other healthier things and then the next day get back on track.
I love it. Good tips. What's your favorite ancient healing remedy? You have to pick one. Oh, gosh.
I would say acupuncture.
Me too. What a game changer.
It gives me chills. Yeah. I've used acupuncture during all of my health adversity. I use it very often for my cancer patients. I think it is a shame that it's expensive and insurance isn't covered in the way that acupunctures deserve to be reimbursed. But I really enjoy acupuncture and my favorite form of acupuncture for me is five elements acupuncture.
Beautiful. Tell us something about modern medicine that's really exciting to you.
Immunotherapy is just really in the gut microbiome science. So I love where now we're at with cancer, where it's where I see stage four cancer patients. The cancer is gone. Scan after scan. No evidence of disease. No evidence of disease. That's cool because we never thought we could cure stage four cancer of the breast. And that's different narrative now. I see it all the time. I messaged one of my patients day, I said, you are cured. And she says, I believe I am too. Yeah, her name is Michelle. So shout out Michelle, you're cured. She had a breast cancer that metastasized to her brain and it's gone. It's been gone for years and it's so cool. Talk about hope. There's your hope for the day. So yeah, immunotherapy, gut microbiome science. But you can do your best gut microbiome by doing a diversified plant based diet.
You got it. I'm with you on that.
If you.
Congratulations, Michelle.
That's huge.
I. I know everyone could just feel your energy today. Thank you so much for being who you are, for radiating who you are. You literally have the capacity. You are like you're the red pill.
We together, you know, I felt like so authentic and this was just so easy. I've never had such joy speaking to someone. I just, I adore you. Thank you for the beautiful work you're doing and you're touching humanity in a way that we need it. So keep, keep your voice out there and keep it going.
Thank you. When I say red pill, it's simply the reflection of everyone, the necessity of finding someone, a teacher, practitioner, someone in your life who can just make that reflection back to you to get a glimpse or a glimmer of hope or optimism about the future. Like, that's. That's the red pill. All right? So thank you so much. Till next time, and I'll see you next week.
All right, thanks. Thank you.
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