John LufBurrow x Mona Sharma | LIVE Podcast Recording & AMA

You know, it's like, kind of hard to predict because I'll go wherever I need to go.

Right.

But he couldn't have been more. More kind and. And hopefully he comes back.

Yeah, he will be.

Yeah. I mean, I have. I have plenty of time. I could. I could eventually get someone up here. Hi, everybody.

We're good. All right. Good morning, everyone who is joining us live today. For new listeners, welcome to Rooted in Wellness. Today is a really special day because it's not often I think that my. My guests become my friends, but you're already a friend.

Thank you.

Which feels so good. Thank you. John Loughborough of Revive Health. And I actually couldn't think, as we were saying before, I couldn't think of a more perfect guest. The people that I work with who are involved with corporate wellness who want to do better by people who work for them, or maybe there's somebody who's suffering in the corporate world where they're seeing just major deficiencies that aren't fueling their health. And gosh, me coming from a background in corporate wellness, that led to burnout, which is not an uncommon story. So we'll get into all of that. But just to settle in as a guest, this podcast is about becoming rooted in who you are, in your health, your happiness, and I think this intuition that we all have to know that we are our own healer. You have an incredible story. You have a very busy schedule, you travel a lot, you are busy, and yet you are so calm on the exterior and personable. So I would love to know what are a few things that help you feel really rooted in your health and your happiness.

Yeah. So thank you first of all, for letting me be here and what a welcoming and wonderful environment. Three things, faith, family, and frequency. That's. And I'll unpack those. But that's really, those are the core elements for me. And when any one of those is a little off, I'm a little off. Right. And so for faith, I'm a devout follower of Christ, and so my Christian faith is enormous for me. It's the. It's the foundation of everything for me and family. It's to me, like my amazing wife, my two kids that are just remarkable in every way, and the time I can spend with them, the quality time I can spend with them is the most important thing, I think, you know, for. For many of us, like, when we think about vacations and holidays and even three day weekends, like, what are we really trying to do there? It's not a break from work necessarily. It's we're creating. We want to create kind of this abundance of those joyful moments, right? That's why we take these trips. That's why we spend time together. That's why we get together with friends and family over holidays. And so family is number two. It's essential. My wife in particular has been the absolute rock for everything I've ever done in my life. All my big leaps. She's right behind them. She's the one encouraging me, coaching me, pushing me. And so her foundation has been. It's been everything for me in my adult life. Frequency, the third thing. So this is relatively new for me, as I've learned and continue to kind of evolve. But, you know, the energy that we put off is usually the energy we receive. And I call this frequency. But, you know, you can receive kind of the wrong energy, and it's oftentimes because you're putting out the wrong energy. And I want to be very knowledgeable, very aware that how I show up, whether it's a meeting or just walking into a room, how I begin and end conversations, it's a reflection of the frequency that I'm putting out. And I, you know, I. Having awareness of this is a big step forward for me. And I almost feel a responsibility to be a light in the world and put. Put off that positive. Some people call this vibes or, you know, there's different names for it, but I think of it as frequency. It's a. It's most appropriate. When you're on the right frequency, you're going to get the right frequency back.

Oh, my gosh, I love that. And not the answer that I would have expected coming from you. I was waiting for a protocol, a strong morning ritual that invite, you know, reading newspapers and planning.

I think those things are important to me. Those are tactics. Yeah, yeah, those are tactics. And. And I do have some very strong protocols, maybe we would call them, but just really habits that have helped me. You know, I'm big on affirmations. I'll tell you that up front. And I can share, you know, what I do. But that to me is. Is a tactic to get the right mindset so that I'm. I'm working the right way and living the right way.

I'm going to borrow that. That's a triple faith, family and frequency. That's just beautiful. And I think my listeners and my community, they're starting to understand healing ultimately is a very big spiritual journey back to yourself, knowing who you are, shifting your frequency. And I couldn't agree with you more when your health is optimized, when you're feeling good and you're feeling supported, you go out into the world. And I'm sure this is a big part of who you are. I actually see it, and I know it. I've seen you speak. People are drawn to you. You're magnetic. You're magnetic when you walk into a room. So anyways, I. I'm singing your praises. You're amazing. All right, so on this podcast, we often talk about food and healing rituals and the science of longevity. But as we're speaking about, true healing also has to do in. In large part to our environment and where we're spending the bulk of our time and every single day. And for most of us, that means the workplace.

Yeah.

So being somebody somewhere else. And the. The stats around workplace happiness and health are pretty staggering. Right. We're really moving at snail's pace to make any changes. With nearly 60% of Americans living with at least one chronic condition burnout reported by 44% of people worldwide. Okay. This is not something that, that is unique anymore. So it's really clear that we cannot separate corporate culture with health. They really have to merge together. And you speak directly to this gap and, you know, in terms of how you even fit into this ecosystem. I work with so many people who either manage corporations or they're part of a corporation and they're suffering as a result of the environment that they're in where they're spending the bulk of their time. So we're going to dive into a lot of this today. But I'm interested in, with your journey, you coming into this, and you were able to really take a global view, what are the gaps that you saw that inspired Revive?

Yeah, I'll tell you so a little bit of the origin story with Revive, and I think that'll. That'll set up, you know, what we're doing for people, you know, for what we call our members and for our customers, which are largely employers. But Revive was really born out of this idea that the traditional health care system in the United States was falling down on even some of the most basic elements. Right. And access and affordability tend to be the macro issues for people trying to get into, to get care or wellness right, for, you know, for everyday common issues. But access and affordability are these big barriers. Some people can access the care, they can afford it. Some people can afford it, but can't access it. And we can go into kind of why, you know, those two dynamics. But most of us have challenges around Both access and affordability. And then, you know, so kind of knowing that as the premise, our founders, which were all people that had years and years within the industry, either working at big carriers or being physicians or mental health counselors or, you know, in the mental health space, they. They were just disenchanted with the friction and the difficulty. And the other element is like, you can create a company that allows an employer to create a culture of care, to take a big step in the right direction and ultimately help go upstream in someone's journey. Right? So our entire staff, all of our clinical people, they all have this belief that an ounce of prevention is worth £10 of cure. But we are in, we've talked about this, this kind of sick care treat, symptom world right now. And that's just how it's. Our system has amassed over the years. And so now we're here. We've arrived in this really complex, overly built, sometimes overly structured, overly regulated healthcare system. And it's not working right to the stats that you shared. So what do we do?

Right.

We can kind of just turn an eye to it and just keep trying to navigate through, or we can build an innovative company that can help an employer make a big step in the right direction. And that's what Revive does. It's a whole person care company, an integrated whole person care company. A lot of the care that we deliver is through virtual modalities, but we do other care and we want this to be really outside of the system. And the magic happens for us. When you think about, like our physician group, this is a group of dedicated doctors that understand and believe in preventive medicine. They also understand the reality of today. Right. There's people that need treatment where traditional western medicine and certain elements of that are going to be appropriate. But like, how do you help pull people to that? You know, that other side of the spectrum where you've gone upstream and now you're starting to prevent things from getting worse. And like, that's just such a passionate group. And then you have this, this other element that's integrated with the physicians, that's our mental health counselors and coaches. And these are people dedicated, really and oriented towards almost like workplace performance. Right. So not as much like the traditional talk therapy and let's unpack your traumas of the past. Some of that has to happen and is appropriate, but most of it's oriented to what you can do, what you can control, how we can help you move forward. So that's a beautiful element. And then we do have expertise Deep expertise in digital therapeutics and in pharmacy. Right. And pharmacy sometimes is a necessary component of your health journey. And so we own and operate our own mail order pharmacies and have about 60 or 70 pharmacists that are dedicated to delivering the medications that people need. And when you start to put those kind of core elements together, you create this kind of beautiful health center that is affordable for an employer that they can engage with and add to their strategy and the strategy for employers and, and we can go deeper into employer health care and kind of how did we get to where we are and how does it work? But the strategy for employers for many, many years was like pick a big carrier, kind of as your administrator of medical claims, pick a pharmacy benefit manager, make a plan design hopefully that your people can afford and will use and then just like let it go and see what happens. Right. And so that, that isn't working anymore.

Yeah.

And you need other partners and you need to build out a more comprehensive approach. And most of our customers at Revive, I'd say almost every single one of them has this unique ability to think abstractly about benefits now and they've kind of broken free. It's like this great awakening that has happened for employers and you know, the HR leaders that are oftentimes making these decisions and finding these partners. It's really a special thing to see. Like I have a lot of faith that, that it's going to turn and we're going to get into a better spot where employees and their, their dependents. Right. Their families are better taken care of and have better resources and we start to see the cost of care reduce. Right. The total cost of care. Because now we're, we're not seeing as many expensive claims or hospital visits. So we're doing more on the preventive side.

This is really a message that needs to be amplified through every stage of the corporate system. It's almost like, you know, when we, we were talking about the dis. Deficiencies in the healthcare system. I'm Canadian, there's so many beautiful things about healthcare there, but it is broken. It is also a sick care system. As a Canadian coming to the US and it felt like we were shopping for car insurance, but for our health. It was wild to me. And what fascinated me too, okay, if everyone is doing this, we rely on this for healthcare. God forbid anything happen, but we're still kind of in this system where we're doing it or cases when we, when we need it. There's, there's no talk about prevention.

Right.

There's no talk about living your best life or feeling good. And when we think about the statistics around burnout and employee wellness, people are aware of what it takes, but what's missing? Like, how did we, how did we get here? How do we get to that point?

Yeah, well, I think you have to go back to post World War II to kind of understand like how the US healthcare system is built today. And you know, post World War II, the, the major concerns in healthcare were accidents, infections. And so you had, you know, you had all these, these hospitals that were built and they were, you know, really focused kind of on those things. Almost the more traumatic things, high acuity things. And then as chronic conditions started to flourish and you know, more people are struggling with, you know, all the usual suspects in the chronic condition kind of category, you start to get more into managed care. Right? And this is where insurance companies came in. Because a lot of healthcare prior to 1950s was really kind of just a cash environment. I remember as a young kid even, Even in the 80s, you know, my mom took us to a pediatrician, right? It was a $25 or $30 office visit, paid out of pocket. She didn't present an insurance card if we needed to fill a medication. Let's say it was just paid at the pharmacy. Managed care companies, which is kind of the evolution of insurance companies came in and they, they really started building out these big plans. And now all of a sudden you got into co pays, co insurance and all the stuff we know today. And like when you're doing that insurance shopping, especially as an individual, you're looking at all those things and saying, is this the right coverage amount? Should we buy this plan? That plan? You know, it evolved into this really, really comprehensive thing. And now we're at this stage where the best healthcare systems in the world and some of the best healthcare systems in the United States, they can do almost anything you can imagine. They have high, really great capability around the most difficult, high carity care. Think high acuity care, Think of like cancer treatment, think of all the autoimmune disorders. Like all of these things have some level of expertise on. But they're very expensive, it's very expensive to navigate it. And there's a lot of people out there that are kind of unfortunately stuck in this pattern where they have to rely now on the, the expensive system and that's driving a lot of the cost. And so I, I would say we almost need really a reset, complete reset. You got this dynamic. We have all these providers and all these big systems and by the way, there's a lot of consolidation. There's. And then you have these really big insurers and there's a lot of consolidation that's happening there. And then you have third party administrators, you have PBMs, you have health solution companies. So it's a lot, it's a lot of noise. And one of the things that we focus on and do is help our customers, kind of like a laser beam through the fog, get re centered and refocused on preventive care. The basics, the foundations, and realize that some of this really expensive stuff is unavoidable. Right. You're going to have some of those things that come through, but you can control this element and you can create that culture of care. And, and that's what we're passionate about because it starts to us, it starts there, Right? Starts on the basics.

I'm really happy that we're talking about the deficiencies and kind of the brokenness of the system. I think people have to start getting a little bit louder about what is broken.

Yeah.

As a Canadian, I'll never forget coming back from a hospital was after I gave birth and getting a letter from the insurance company with a bill. It's like getting a letter from your lawyer or something like.

Right. Very complex, very complex.

Very, very expensive. We had great insurance, thank goodness. But we followed up with them. They said, oh no, no, that's not for you. That's just what we're submitting to the insurance company, right?

Yeah.

To everybody else who was responsible for paying it.

That's right.

And yeah, it's like, okay, so you're jacking the price up even then to convince somebody else to pay for it because I've got premium coverage and it just was just broken.

That's a reflection of the system. So every, every hospital, right. Every system that's providing care will have a charge master. And so oftentimes those things are hyperinflated because they know they won't get that from a reimbursement level, especially from the big, you know, you think of the blues. United, Cigna, Humana, Aetna, these are the biggest carriers in the country. They're not going to pay full price for delivery or any of these things. And so the long and short of it is there's a lot of, there's a lot of manipulation. It's not a true kind of market reflection. And you know, things like that, like what you were looking at was an explanation of benefits or an eob. Okay. It's overly complex. Most people get Those and they're like, what am I even looking at? What am I responsible for? And so simplification of those things. And we call that friction at revive, we call that unnecessary friction. That's why everything we do is. It's employer sponsored. But it's like a subscription. So think of like a Netflix subscription. Right. On behalf of all your employees. But the care that we deliver is $0 to the employee. So there is no EOB, there is no bill, there's no uploading of payment. You're just getting right in, getting connected to a provider, getting connected to a mental health counselor, getting connected to maybe the medication that you need and you're not paying anything and you can operate that way. It's a beautiful thing when you break away, like I said, the barriers of access and affordability. Now people can re engage and start to get care that they need or care their family needs.

We'll get into the solution and talking a little bit more about that integration that you're working through. But let's just talk about, you know, I think burnout is something that we can all really identify with. I'm sure our listeners, whether you felt it, you know, somebody who suffers from it, but it's something that we've really normalized in the workplace. It's like, yeah, of course you're burned out. Right. It's what we do. We show up, we're wired, we're tired, and we rely on stimulants all day long to make it through the day. And then we'll go for a drink for happy hour to unwind at the end of the day. Right, Right. We've all, we've been there. The World Health Organization has classified burnout as an occupational phenomenon, costing companies an estimated $322 billion annually in lost productivity and turnover. Like, wow. And I think listeners might be saying, yeah, that's true, but I might, they might get some perks at their work. Whether that's perks around going to a class or going to do yoga or maybe a meditation app or a discount at a gym, but that's all great. I approve of all those things, but none of those deal with the root cause. It's the suffering, which means it's not going to go away, not going to regain any of that time or lost money. So why do so many workplace wellness programs fail to make employees seen and supported?

I think at the root, they're not broad enough. So some of those things you listed, it's kind of like throwing a deck chair off the titan. Like it's not going to make an impact. It's going down anyhow. And I also think too employers, 110 million Americans really kind of experience the US health care system through their employer. So their employer will have an element where they can design and create and build kind of this benefit environment. But they also have limits. Right? You know, most employers don't have an unlimited amount of money to be able to provide kind of the richest resources or the richest benefits. So there's that element. There's some natural kind of limiters to, to benefits. But I think to me, the bigger thing is what's the culture at the employer, Right? Because culture, the culture of the people, how you work, you know, the values that the organization has, they play as much a part as resources that you may be able to put in place or provide. People also have to be willing to take advantage of those resources. I will say, by and large, the most discerning and progressive employers in the US have problem awareness. They have an arsenal of solutions that they're either engaged with or exploring. So they're trying to solve the problem, they're trying to do the right thing. And those are the innovators. Right? If you think of the adoption curve, there's always going to be kind of the early adopters, and then there's the people that are early followers, then there's the middle, then there's the laggards, and employers are on that spectrum as well. And so if they've got a great HR team, if they've got a C suite that is bought into the idea of having a great culture and taking better care of their people, then they have the framework to go out and say, okay, what partners do we need to help execute on this? But that employee culture is huge. If you've got managers at every level in an organization that are in tune to those things, and they can be maybe the nudge that someone needs to start getting some help, that's a beautiful thing. If you have a culture that's authentic and, you know, even some of the people at the top of the organization, they should be vulnerable. Vulnerable enough to say, like, hey, I know this is really tough. It's been tough on me. I had to do a reset two weeks ago and get back to my foundation because I was running ragged, show some of that vulnerability, right? Because down the line that makes a big deal.

That's such a good point. So culture and values. So ask yourself if you're part of a big corporation or if maybe you're the owner, you're already at the top. Do you had a set, do you have a set of values that make your employees feel like you are interested in taking care of their health?

That's right.

Or, and if. Maybe this is an if and an or. Are they actually willing to take part in the perks or the offerings that you have? I used to do so much stuff like corporate workshops and yoga and mindfulness practices, guided meditation. And I remember often showing up and nobody would be there. Except there was one big company that I worked for and they had to incentivize their employees to show up to my classes. The room was packed. You know what the difference was? They felt safe enough to take the time to go and submerge themselves into wellness as opposed to, no, it doesn't look like I'm working at that time. Um, my boss will know that I'm, you know, don't. I've made the call or haven't hit my hours of the day or whatever it is checklist.

It became a priority, right? It became a real priority. And, and that's where the, the burden is on leadership. And it starts at the very top of any organization. You, you have to, you have to create that psychological safety for people to be able to put their well being, you know, ahead of the work. You also have to, there's just some good old fashioned like let's do this together. So imagine in that same scenario where you know, maybe people could show up, they could take a class, they could, they could invest time in well being, right? And you're leading it. And instead of just a handful of people maybe showing up or even aligning incentives, imagine a one of the big inspirational leaders or managers at that company says let's all go do this together.

Right?

Because that's all you need is that first person to kind of take that first step. And now you've got a little bit of a tribe, a little bit of a following, and that all you need is a really good nucleus at a company. And then others start to kind of build on that and attach to that at revive.

Have you guys done any research or do you have any feedback from your members on the things that they wish they had that they actually needed but they weren't receiving?

Yeah, we get, we get that quite often. So we do a lot of after action after service surveys and we get feedback not just from our members, but also from the teams and the HR teams and the C suite leaders we work with at those companies. But that anecdotal feedback around, normally I would have to Wait three weeks before I could get into a provider and I was able to see someone this afternoon. Or, you know, the medications that my family takes all matched revives, formulary. We save over 700 bucks a month. Like these kinds of things coming from our members. We are intentional about collecting that and then reading that and feeding it back into our teams and our organization so that they realize the impact that they're making. And, you know, it's relatively small stuff. Like if you think about health care, right, There are some really big, heavy things, you know, advanced cancer management, you know, NICU babies, all of these different autoimmune disease, cystic fibrosis. These are all things that an employer sponsoring health plan will and potentially run into.

Right.

But all of this other stuff, the everyday basic things that most. I'd say, I always say 95% of employees and their families need some of these basics, right. They're going to need a little primary care. They're going to get sick a couple of times a year, potentially. They're going to maybe take some generic medications. These are very approachable things, but if you can make them very easy and put no barriers in front of them, beautiful things happen. And, and you know, for me, this concept of like moving upstream, right, there's this great, there's this great story that I read in a book that Chip Heath wrote, and it's called Upstream, but it opens up basically saying, like, you know, you and your friend are sitting at the edge of a river and you're having a nice lunch or whatever, and then all of a sudden this like, child comes floating down and struggling, struggling to swim. You know, you jump in, you save, rescue the child, you bring the child over, everything's wonderful. Three or four minutes later, another. And you do the same thing and then another and another. At some point, one of you needs to say, we got to go upstream and see who's throwing these kids in the river. Right. And stop it because. And that, that's what we have to do with healthcare. We got to get out of the sick care pattern and waiting for symptoms and then treating symptoms and not the person.

Yeah.

And we got to get upstream and find out what's the source, what's the root, and start, start working there.

Oh my gosh. We don't need any more science or data around this either. Right. Like, if you're at the top of an organization, you know that you want the people who work for your company to perform better, to show up, happy, to work to, to know that they're taken care of so that they feel, you know, optimistic maybe that they're committed to being part of the culture that you're creating.

That's right.

And if you're somebody who works for a big organization, you want to show up healthier and happier every day. You don't want to feel a sense of dread. You don't want to have to call and say you want to be part of an organization that focuses on these things. And when you and I first started speaking, this is probably the part that I was most excited about because it's been a year. I am working in wellness with so many different practitioners and we talk about this idea of integration, but nobody is practicing integrative healthcare. We talk about it, but it is still such a broken system. No one is talking to anybody. And with you and with what you mentioned that you're kind of making happen with Revive is finally the connective tissue that people need.

Yeah.

So you know that in my line of work, when I'm focusing on someone's healing, it's about recognizing them as an individual, not a cookie cutter policy or treatment plan or protocol or diet that I'm putting on. And this I think is really the future of healthcare, personalized health and wellness and approach to healing to understand the person at their core.

Yes.

And I think healing and a healing journey can happen so much faster when that happens. So you mentioned briefly around the different types of practitioners that are part of Revive, what was the inspiration and understanding that personalized health is really the future?

Well, I think again it came from these very innovative founders that had a good understanding of what wasn't working. And so what doesn't work is what you describe where we put things in categories and you know, we were siloed and one provider or you know, clinician isn't working across the lines. And that's, that's where our system has evolved. And even, even the biggest, most prolific healthcare systems and hospital systems still struggle with being connected. Right. It's still very siloed. You see these institutes, you know, here's the cancer institute, here's the know, gastroenterology institute, here's these things. And so it's about letting, just letting providers practice at the top of their license and letting them work as teams, as units. Right. All oriented around that individual. How can we elevate that individual? How can we help them? And, and there's a, there's a part two where the mental health and well being for a long time was separated from the physical health in the US healthcare system. So that That's a big step in the right direction, is how do you integrate that and, you know, revive. One of the things that's essential is this universal EMR so that our clinicians, you know, on the, on the physical health side, can nudge and refer someone to a mental health coach or vice versa. Right. Something as basic as that is missing in most, in most people's experience of the traditional system. And so it starts there. But our founders just had a very good vision of what was broken and then tried to build, and did build kind of the antithesis to that. And, and, and that's why we've had such great success. I will say another thing, backing up, you know, an employer or anyone's kind of traditional health plan that they might have, it also has its limits. Right. An employer can only do so much. The individual has a responsibility. And I think, you know, one of the things I love about, you know, your, Your podcast here and your whole theme is let's help to educate and in. And, and make the individual understand that they actually have more control than they might think they have. And to me, that starts with understanding the mind. Right. So I think of the mind as a circle, and then if you draw a line between, you know, a horizontal line in the circle, you have the conscious mind and the subconscious. And the conscious mind, that's that inner talk that we have. It can control the subconscious. It can control your future. I'm very, very adamant about that. And your brain is like the switchboard to me. That's an overly simplistic, you know, description, but you think of it as a switchboard or, you know, just a computer. Right. In and of itself, it doesn't really do too much, but the mind is what really is going to get you into the right spot. And so we talk about. You hear this all the time. Talk about walking away from your old self. You talk about people that have the right mindset and how they're able to achieve success or abundance in the way that they want it. And then when we don't have a great mindset and we approach something, it inevitably doesn't go really well. Right. And so elevating people to understand that they actually have more control that they need to leverage, that in addition to the resources they may have around them to get to where they want to be, health and well, being wise.

Absolutely. I love that you brought that up, because there is a really big gap. There's a gap that's happening between all the awareness that's out there, the education that people have it's never been easier to just access so much information at your fingertips and that could inspire you to take action. But a lot of people are paralyzed. They're not even willing to get there. And this is an interesting component too. Imagine for corporations to actually be interested in what their employees needed. I was speaking to a client yesterday. This is something he's thinking about with his corporation in real estate and he's talking about goals and achieving goals and goals. And it's like, what if you're the person working for you doesn't even care about a goal? Like understand are they goal oriented, motivated? Is this the type of person who's more about vision? They want to dream about the future of the themselves and the company and their health and what it feels like. Vision is a really big part to a lot of people who are already at the top of these corporations.

That's right.

And then the last one's also accountability. Some people love accountability, some people don't need it. But I think that corporations need to have a full understanding of something that's so simple and what they could actually, actually use.

I couldn't agree, I couldn't agree more. You know, it's hard in any business, right? The usually the founder, the people at the top, they have a very clear vision of what they want to do and what needs to be done. But very few companies, only the greatest in the world, and I would even say not even 100% of their employees, but only a few companies are able to get buy in all the way down to the individual contributor. It's a very difficult thing to do. I think if we look at kind of some of the greats, you know, in business, you see, that is a, that's a, that's a strong element. They were good at getting everyone to believe in the vision and the direction that is that buy in that you need. By the way, that also helps with burnout. So yes, if you're stuck in a kind of a corporate type job and you don't really believe or you're not aligned with their mission or their vision, but you're working hard, long hours. I think about, think about law firms all the time time. Like it's so hard to achieve at a big law firm partner status, right? And investment firms, they, they work these fresh out of school people so hard and it seems like such a long journey to kind of get to the top. Some people get a few years in, they realize, I don't even know if I want to get to the top. I thought I did A few years ago, but I don't know if I believe in it. So, you know, again, this goes back to the individual. I tell people, try to find work, try to try to orient your career and attach it to organizations that you. You do really believe in what they're doing, because it'll. It'll help that. That'll. That'll maybe give you 30 of it, right? Where it's just like, hey, I. I am working hard and this is exhausting, or maybe I'm traveling a lot or whatever it may be, but I believe in what we're doing, right? And, and when you have that alignment, it's a. It's a really special thing.

So you're making me think of back in my corporate days. I had burnout, I had my heart palpitations, I had my heart surgery, all of these things, which I know is not a unique scenario, but I have immigrant parents, so my mentality was, work harder than everybody else, get the job done and get it done fast and get to the top and be respectful. The words of I need help or I'm sick or even me taking some days, for crying out loud, that was just not part of my DNA, right?

That was shown as weakness.

It was a weakness. I do. I cannot let them see my weakness because I'm disposable.

That's right.

Do you think that that is changing?

I think it's changing in pockets. And again, I always think of this. You know, we have. We have millions of employers in the US and they're all different. The ones that are on the leading edge, they. They are. They're more progressive in how they think through this. And I think that's where that aspect of vulnerability is so important, because the facade of, like, perfection and, you know, the expectations are this. Or, you know, I've had. I've had leaders before that would be like, oh, I just worked all weekend. And, you know, it's like they're kind of creating this environment where, like, if you don't work all weekend, right, if you don't work these ridiculous hours, then you're not going to fit in here. I think that is changing. And, you know, the. The largest generation now in the workforce, you know, our younger generation, right, the baby boomers are exiting. They have a. They have different expectations, they have different ideas of what success or abundance looks like to them. And great companies are taking cues from that. And they're starting to realize, like, we don't necessarily need the skyscraper suit and tie. Everybody acts like they're perfect environment. We need a more genuine and authentic environment. And we need to make sure that our people are at their best. And what does that mean to help your people be at their best? Like help them be healthy, help them be productive, help them be present, work with them when they're going through the ups and downs that everybody goes through. And don't always just highlight perfection. That's another pet peeve of mine in business is, you know, a lot of people think, oh, I've got, you know, order to have this high end career, I have to be perfect in everything I do, every little element. That's not really true. And you know, if I could, if I could kind of say a message loud to everybody out there working. It's not about being perfect. It's about being a great learner in your environment. It's about being innovative. We are creative beings. Right. And create an environment around you which you can thrive, create an environment within your team where they can thrive and, and be that high frequency, energetic, welcoming, helpful person. Because you never know the impact it'll make on your, you know, your partner or your peer or even that brief moment with, with someone that's just starting their career that might be in a conversation with me at a meeting or a conference. Like I need to make sure I understand the impact of something small like that to that individual. Because I remember when I was that person and I got to meet somebody, maybe that was, you know, at the higher end of the, of the corporate hierarchy. And those moments were just seared into my head. And we have to be aware of this, I think, as leaders in any organization. But you know, to me it's, it's evolving and I'm excited to see where it's going. People do care, they're just not always sure how do I get from, you know, A to Z, such a powerful.

Message and one that needs to be echoed. You know, perfectionism could be your greatest downfall. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

And it's almost, if we take an empowered lens at this, if you're the person in any organization who's having a voice, the impact that you could then create.

Right.

Being the activist, speaking to the person in your HR office and just expressing the concerns and giving others around you the freedom to also do that, all of a sudden I say like HR could literally just evolve in a completely different way. Like they really are at the crux of creating impact. If they know what's wrong, you have to speak up. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. They're also the caretakers of every company's biggest asset is the people.

Yeah.

Like you can, you can have the greatest innovation, the greatest, you know, tech component. You can have a great service element to what you do. But if you don't have great people in the delivery of those things. Yeah, you'll, you'll struggle. And so who takes care of the people in a corporate environment, in a company, it's that HR team. Right. And so it's exciting to see how that that has evolved as well, because the responsibility there and the recognition of that team is, is a, it's, it's clearly a differentiator for, for successful companies.

Yeah, let's hold back a little bit. There's been a lot of research and studies around companies. I feel like they're mostly in Europe who are changing the workplace environment. Right. And this actually ties into our biology too. So on our podcast we talk about the impact of our genetics. Right. So if, you know, in systems biology, we know that our genes load the gun, but lifestyle and your environment actually pull the trigger.

That's right.

And so companies now seeing, just by showing up into a workspace that feels more relaxing, more inviting, where the tone is set with optimism, happiness, peace or calm, it's actually driving the habits of people that work there.

Yeah.

So, so in your mind and if you could paint kind of a vision for everyone, how do you meet people, where they're at? What does it look like in practice to get from here to there?

I think you have to start with the vision and then you have to create kind of the strategic pillars that align to that vision. So, you know, you might have a vision of we, we want this amazing workplace where everyone is at their best and they feel welcome all the time and it's supportive. Whatever the vision might be. There are four or five, maybe three or four pillars. Okay. That are essential for you to get. You know, like those are the key things you have to have to get to that vision. And then there's going to be initiatives under that, under those pillars. Those initiatives are going to be more like projects. Right. And so what we're, what we're kind of building out here is a strategic plan. And it's usually a multi year strategy. This is one of the challenges when you think, when you think about HR and benefits is they're on this 12 month treadmill because insurance and contracts, they all renew on 12 months. But this is way bigger than that. Right. And so you've got to create kind of a multi year plan. And how we get there, you might not have every step figured out when you create the Plan.

Yeah.

Right. Have the flexibility to be able to alter it and, and change it as needed. But it is possible. Right. And a really good plan and people that are dedicated to executing on it. It can move mountains for an organization. It really can.

There's actually studies on it, so I pulled up a study last night. So every $1 that's invested in employee health can return 3 to $6 in productivity and reduced healthcare costs. It's a Harvard meta analysis and it's.

A, it's a great study. And it is 100% true. It actually might be higher than that.

Yeah. I'm sure that was an older study.

But yes, when we invest in our make that courageous step, it's a little bit of a bet. Right. And so, you know, you're going to have the people that are on maybe the CFO side of it or the financial side where it's like, okay, we're making this investment, but you gotta. Yeah. They have to be on board as well. Everyone has to believe you make the investment, you do the work, you create the environment, you'll see the return. Like a really good, engaged workforce is probably the most powerful thing any company.

Oh, yeah. Just the energy around that just feels so good, something that you want to be part of.

It's incredible. Yeah. And I, I have the good fortune traveling the country, meeting all sorts of different types of employers. And I'll always say, like, when I'm, when I'm in that energy, when I'm feeling that frequency, you know, I'm like, I could work here. Like, you know, and that's probably, to me, that's one of the greatest compliments I could give them. Right. Because they're doing all the right things that they can do to create that environment. And then I'll go back to the individual again and we talk about kind of the, you know, the corporate environment. So there's the office environment. But we have millions of Americans that are working from home.

True.

Like, Most of our 290 employees at Revive, you know, are working usually remote from their home. So how do you create an environment that is a productive, welcoming, warm environment for your best thinking, your best work? And one of the things that I will tell people, especially when the weather's nice, is try to set up or figure out a way to set up a workstation that is at least allowing you to look outside or actually outside.

Yeah.

And see if that helps pull you out or elevate your thinking or make you more productive. There's something special about being outside. And you Know, being in the fresh air and in the sunlight. That is I think infinitely better than being stuck in an office. Right. Or buried in a cubicle.

Can we just get walking treadmills also covered by insurance and provided by employees.

Right. Standing desks, walking treadmills. These are, these are really like, it's kind of sounds smart, small, but these things I think are very, very powerful. Yeah.

You're shown it to a meeting online, you see somebody on the other end who you would never, you would expect them in a suit and a tie and all of a sudden they're on a walking treadmill or they're outside or they just finished a workout or they're leading with meditation or talking about setting an intention before the meeting. Like, let's go. That's what gets me just riled up.

Yeah, I mean we, we'll have people occasionally that'll be, I think it's called, I think the term is exercise snacking where you're doing a lot of like little, little brief workouts. But if, you know, if some kettlebells and you're doing, you know, some things with kettlebells while you're on a zoom call with me, I'm, I'm like, you go that's awesome. But those kinds of things, like, they have to be accepted. Right. We have to start accepting that and, and giving people freedom. I tell all the people that have worked with for me for years, you know, I'm big on the midday walk. Right. Or if we're going to do a one on one, let's walk together and talk and not just sit, you know, across the desk. Those kinds of things I think are really helpful. And like I said, my best thinking usually isn't sitting at my desk.

Oh yeah, I remember a lot of those meetings was like going to stand in line at a Starbucks and wait in line for coffee in order to have a productive meeting. It's like, it's really how you spend your time.

It is, yeah. It's, you know, it's a different way of working. It's a little bit, it'll seem more relaxed to the 50s, 60s, 70s idea. You know, I kind of call it my parents idea of like, you know, career. And it should evolve, it should continue to evolve. I, I love some of the things that European companies are doing. You know, back to your point earlier. Shorter work weeks, more flexibility for employees. I'm always enamored. So you know, I kind of grew up on the sales and marketing side of, of, of a career and if somebody was working for me and they were able to meet their numbers and do it in from Monday to Thursday. And I knew Friday they were like blowing off a half day and golfing. That never irritated me. I was more interested in finding out how are you doing it? Because I want everyone else to be able to do that much in a compressed timeframe. And those people usually were really grounded. They were very efficient with their workday. They built in necessary space and breaks so that they could do strategic thinking and, you know, be clear minded. They maybe had a little bit of a natural gift towards that versus the always frazzled and frantic, hardworking lot of hours, but not as productive as some of the other individuals. And so I've always been fascinated with that.

Yeah, me too. Because even for that person, what a lesson to understand that you're self imposing. Yeah, a lot of that on yourself when you are part of a culture. Maybe have a boss or an employer who's accepting of that if they just knew.

Yeah, right. I've also been very big on, and I shared this with you earlier, but you know, affirmations.

Yeah.

This in the last six years, probably the single most important thing for me. And, and now I'm doing a better job sharing this with other people. But in the corporate world, this can sound like a little Okie or like, you know, but. But again, going back to the conscious mind, subconscious mind, the brain, the body, you know, you have to convince yourself that you can do things. Right. And so I have six things that I write down every day. Six things that I say throughout the day, six things that I've anchored on. It started off years ago, just with a couple, and it's evolved. And those affirmations are important. In fact, really, for the first time, I shared all six with someone that works with me when I was in Chicago on Monday night, you know, because I could sense that, that maybe this would help them. And I was so grateful with how he received the information and how he shared some of the things that he does. But you really do have control of your future. And so do you want to hear those six things?

Okay, what are they?

So it's a long lead up, very dramatic. The first is, you know, you, a couple podcast episodes ago, you were talking about vitamin G, right? Gratitude, gratefulness. Yeah, yeah. So for me, it starts off with, I am grateful for my existence. Right. Because it's hard to think of this, but imagine if you didn't exist. Right. It, you know, so I'm grateful that I'm here, I'm in the show, I'm I'm on Earth and I exist. I'm very grateful for that. I'm grateful for my life. That's an acknowledgment of the present, everything that's built up to this point. I am the highest form of creation, and I believe this. Humans really are the pinnacle of creation. We are creators by nature, right? And you might think, well, I'm not. I'm not, you know, artistic or I'm not innovative or I'm not these. No, you are creative. You create things all the time. You build things, you invent things, you create environments, you create a loving home, you know, whatever it may be, your creator. And we're the highest form of creation. There has never been and never will be another me. That is really heavy when you think about that. It's like, well, and that to me, gives purpose on whatever time I have left. Like, there is not going to be another version of me. And there never was in all of history a version of me. And so I need to be very purposeful with what I do. And then I think the next is a more of a declaration. I control my future. And this is that conscious mind taking over, right? I control my future. And then finally I will make space for the abundance I deserve. And this is something that I added somewhat recently to my daily affirmations. But making space for the abundance you deserve, letting yourself un hitch from the old self, right, and build the new self, you have to make space for it. And those six things are very important to me. I, like I said, I physically write them down and then I repeat them, you know, so I wouldn't say necessarily it's a mantra or an ethos, but, like, those six things reset me when I need to be reset.

They're so powerful. I'm so happy that you shared them. And for listeners, you know, we talk, you know, there's been so many people who will mention affirmations or morning practices, and there's still that stigma, right? Affirmations can feel very much like, I am free, I am powerful, I am healthy, I am rich. And you're just repeating these words in your mind, right? But what you're talking about, and I know that you can. You can actually feel it through your voice goes directly with your value of frequency. And this is part of NLP, too. If there's something that you want to feel, someone that you want to become, even a version of yourself. In Health, when I'm helping my clients visualize, you have to feel it for it to become real. So you weren't just repeating words, you were actually stepping into the feeling of it actually being a reality.

Yes.

And I think that for you, what might be a driving force that would, like, trickle down. This just makes so much sense. Sense and understanding who you are, that energy that you have, it's something that people might not understand just yet, but they know they want to be part of it. The words that you said, I don't necessarily feel in myself yet, but I know I definitely want to know more about that. So I think that's why the person that you're speaking to is probably open. I think that everyone is actually very open to these things. I'm so happy that you shared.

They should be. And it is actually something that was personal. And I thought a lot about, like, do I want to share these things? But again, back to my theme of, like, let's show some vulnerability and let's help others. There's a lot of people that don't even think through that. They. They have a conscious and a subconscious mind. The subconscious is this vessel where all of the. The stuff that we consume and see and we're exposed to kind of just dumps in there. Right. So, like, I will tell you, I'm not a person that has social media. I'm not on apps. I don't have news apps on my phone. I've eliminated kind of those things because I really don't need that. That has helped. So there are, like, some tactics that you can do, but the single biggest thing is being really in touch with my mind and understanding that you can almost will things to happen. Right. And so that. That. That once you kind of figure that out, it's like, whoa, wait a second. I'm this, like, you know, I have this very powerful energy or frequency, and I can do the things in this life that I need and want to do, and I have more control than. Than. Than I think or thought I did.

I love that.

Yeah.

I feel like teaching somebody how to change their state is like giving them a superpower.

Yeah, it is.

And what I'm learning about you, which I love, I'm learning so much today. My goodness. You are very intentional person. You know, none of this. The practices that you're speaking to, they're based out of intention. And with a lot of us, it's very hard to put intention into action. But when you live it, it becomes really, really easy. So let's put this back into the forefront of what you're building. The pillars that you intentionally chose for revive. Can we talk about what those pillars Are, because I've heard you say a few times today, purpose and well being. And it's not just about, you know, the prescription aspect and the doctor aspect and the, the protocol aspect. It's about so much more.

Yeah, I mean our, our goal is to create this company that can become a partner to our customers and our employers so that ultimately they can create that culture of care. Right? So we're, we're really an enabler, right? It's, we get hired to come in and we do create these things in these environments, but it's to help them deliver a culture of care. And that's how you make the mass impact, right? That's how you make the big impact on all the employees and all the people that are under all these corporations. And so it starts with, yes, there's a service element and there's always a business element, but it really starts with our own corporate culture. So we have six immovable values that are incredible to our organization. They are embedded in how we hire, how we work through coaching and career development. You know, pretty much every, every one of those is tied back to what we know we need to do to be the best version of ourselves as a corporation to make the biggest impact on our customers. And really, you know, the country, if you will. Range is the first one. Okay. So range. And by the way, it'll spell out revive. So it's clever. Very proud of this. Range is the first one. But you have to be a person that can look left and look right, that can do a variety of different things, embed into different types of projects, but very aware of not just the work that you're doing, but the work all the others are doing. That's absolutely critical. You know, the sec. The second is E, which is empathy. And so we have to be empathetic with each other. The way we work with each other is, is, it's critical, right? We're, if you're truly a team, you're picking each other up when they need to be picked up. You're pushing and inspiring people, but you have to kind of know where they're coming from and be empathetic to that. Right? That, that's enormous. V is for virtue, right? And so let's, let's have great integrity in everything that we do, right? It's very, very important. Integrity is more important than energy or enthusiasm and knowledge. Like those two things are great. But having great integrity and being virtuous in how we approach business and problems and know service to our members and our patients, that's that's critical. I is for innovation and that's the beginning of this company was founded on how do we create something innovative of tremendous value to, to the biggest purchasers of health solutions and benefits, which is employers. So you have to create something. That's how we created that integrated whole person care environment. Innovation is key. Pushing ourselves further, right. We've just started leveraging artificial intelligence and different aspects of our delivery and how we come together, but really just innovative in how we put our products together and how we work. That's, that's key. V is for value is at the end of the day you can create the greatest thing ever. But if it doesn't have intrinsic value to who's buying it, right? They're not going to buy it. I mean that's just, that's just the truth. So you have to build value and you have to look for, for the little elements of value in everything that you build and create. You also have to create value with the people you work with. Right? And so if you're on a team or you're leading a team or you're leading the whole organization, like you need to display your value and you need to inspire the best out of them. Right? And that's a key element. And then the last E is execution. That's a little bit of that A to Z that we talked about. Like how do you get from here to there? Right. All these things are great to talk about or to invent or think about, but actually executing on a vision is, it's, it's difficult. It's why so many businesses fall apart. Because the, the trap is that it is hard to kind of get it in play and create the strategies necessary, get people on board, lead them through. And so those are our, those are our six corporate values. And, and they really are the foundation, the pillars to everything that we do. And, and we're going to be around a long time. You know, we just crossed a really big barrier, revive and, and you know, over 3,000 customers, over 4.5 million members, we're going to continue to grow, but you have to have a foundation that you can grow upon.

Of course. And values are so pillar and even, you know, for entrepreneurs listening today, I think it applies to you also. It's these life values that are the backbone to any business and I would say also to your health. Do you know one of the first practices, I take all my clients through core value elicitation, understanding what your personal core value is. Because even if it's through the lens of health Knowing what you stand for is what's going to get you to the execution of achieving your goal and having it become a reality. So it's funny, right? Like that integration, how it really all merges together. And do you see, you mentioned AI? Do you see AI being a big part of the future? Like, for me, I resisted it for the longest time. You know, I built Mona AI, but it's become this incredible gift for touch points, for when people are in between conversations like these that need the reminder or access to something that doesn't feel like going to a therapist, but you have access to things that know how to coach you or lead you or guide you.

That's right. I. I believe. And AI already is tremendously powerful in healthcare, but it's going to permeate every aspect of healthcare, just like it's permeating every aspect of every industry, pretty much. So I think when it's harnessed the right way and it, it can be, like, delivered and a part of the overall member experience, it's a wonderful thing.

Yeah.

I think if it is anything off of that or different from that, I think there's some troubling elements. We don't need AI in every aspect of our life, but it can be just like any other really big invention. Think of, like electricity. Right. If we were talking about electricity, you said to me, how important is electricity in your business? You know, we would be marveled by it, but we'd also be concerned about the misuse of it. Right. And so AI to me is a little bit like that. We're going through this big shift. It's a paradigm shift, especially in health care, but what is going to really have value to that patient? And I think it can do a lot of really good stuff. And that's why, that's why we're at the forefront of making sure we feed it not only through the member experience, but the provider experience on the back end. Right. AI can be instrumental in helping providers be more efficient, be more effective, not miss things. So there's just a lot of power.

There in an intelligent way. I see it just as a modality for optimization for all of us. It's how we can come to it. I want to know in the future, what's one shift that you want to see in workplace culture, let's say, in the next five years, if you could see something happen.

Oh, this is a great question. I would say I want to see companies untether from the traditional mindset when they make decisions around their benefits. Right. So be realistic about what you need, do a really good needs assessment, be in tune to what your people and their dependents are looking for and make that your goal that you build to and start to break away from kind of the usual plays, the tropes, if you will, like we're going to switch to a different carrier or we're going to add in a program that we thought sounded great and we're going to add that in, or we're going to raise deductibles or lower cost share, whatever. Those are the usual tactics and levers they can pull, and I would encourage them to. The mindset shift, I think, is to think bigger. How can you actually be a part of the care delivery process? How can you own a little bit of that? How can you create an environment that, that delivers on a culture of care and really show people how important this element is to them? And I think we're, like I said, I think we're evolving to that. And I'd like to see that just accelerate over the next five years.

And if you could speak directly to the leaders who are listening or watching to that, watching this, what would you, what advice would you give them around supporting their team's well being?

You have to be intentional about it. And so we can talk about it. We can provide materials, we can even provide, you know, mental health counselors at $0 access, like we have to revive. But you have to be intentional about why you're doing it. Right. And you've got to evangelize the things that you're doing that you know, are good things for your workforce. So I would say to leaders, like, orient yourself to number one, believing and understanding that your people are the most important asset your company owns. And then go out there and show them that they're the most important element of your business. Right. And if you can do those things, you're well on your way. The third thing is a little bit more personal, and it is you have.

To walk the walk.

Right. So we can talk about who we want to be or what we want to see from our company or our employees or our teams, but you actually have to walk the walk. Right. And do the things that you're evangelizing because that's what'll make it stick.

Absolutely. I think the picture that you've painted today is really phenomenal. And I want everyone to just imagine a world where how we go to work, how we live, work culture is actually a reflection of us looking our best, feeling our best, aging our best, who has our longevity in mind, our Peace of mind as a focal point. We're at a time in history where we can actually change the trajectory of the future of aging, wellness, productivity. As everything evolves with speed, it's time to go back to the roots of how we can heal the system within us and the system that we are part of, part of, in order to see that happen.

That's right.

So we're going to link out everything for everyone listening today, especially around revive health and all the exciting things that you're doing, just assuring the health of employees of the future, which I think is really powerful work. Thank you for that. In closing, I'd love to know what's something about modern healthcare that really excites you about the future?

I think it's the potential we have to reset the system. And so if you look at any industry over a period of 100 years, even 200 years, there are very definitive resets that happen. Right. Manufacturing, automobile, financial, healthcare needs a reset. And I think we're kind of boiling to where it's going to happen. And I do believe employers play a bigger role in that reset than they might think they do. So that's. That to me is the biggest thing. Yes, there are incredible advances in science and technology and we have more research at our fingertips. We have all these things. But like in practicality, again, most people's experience of health and health and well being is, is very influenced by their employer and what their employer has decided. And so I'm, I'm excited for the potential reset or the greater wealth awakening in health that I believe is going to happen.

Let's affirm that. What a beautiful closing. Let's affirm that we're ready to move away from that broken system into an optimal system that has our well being in mind.

That's right.

Thank you for that.

It'd be amazing.

Thank you for joining me today.

Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful.

I'll see you soon.

See you.

So good.

You know, service to our, our members and our patients, that's, that's critical.