Five Myths About Masterminds (And Why They're Holding You Back)

Hi everyone, uh, this is Monica Leonelle and Russell Nolte. Uh, we are doing the Kickstart Your Book Sales podcast, and today we're talking about the 5 myths of masterminds and why you should break through them, how to break through them, and, uh, how it will help your business in the future.

So yeah, let's do it. Um, so, uh, the first one is it's too expensive. Now, Monica, I know you've got a lot of thoughts on this, having bought a lot of masterminds in the past. So do you want to tackle this one?

Yeah, um, I think if, you know, it is— there is sticker shock. So I do want to acknowledge that, uh, because the mastermind, you know, it is— it's often like a large sum of money that you have never spent before. I know my first mastermind was that. And then you often, you know, there are virtual masterminds, but a lot of times you have to travel, you have to have a hotel, you have to like make a lot of effort to go to something. But, you know, for me, I mean, every mastermind that I've ever been to has paid off probably 10x. Like, that's not a joke. That's not like a mistake. It's not even like I got my money back from it. It paid off 10x. And that is usually because whether you like it or not, life works on connections and relationships with people. That's how business happens is through relationships. And beyond that, the way business happens is that you pay for things. Like you pay for things, you receive something back. And so, you know, a lot of opportunities are you either need to know someone or you need to offer like value in the, in the form of like something financial. And I just think, you know, this is the mastermind piece. It really helps you shortcut a lot of stuff. So to get, you to get to know some of the people that I do know, it would have taken so much hustle. It would have taken years and years of hustle. And I may still not be on their radar at that point where I could basically just pay and be in the room with them and then be at dinner with them, dinner hosted by this mastermind group. And I have gotten a lot of a lot of opportunities because of that, just from being like, like, yeah, I don't want to call out anything specific, but beyond what we have called out in our past, our last podcast episode, but yeah, there, there's definitely been a lot of opportunities that I've gotten because of that. So what about you?

Well, so a couple of things. The first is compared to a $50,000 mastermind or $100,000 mastermind, or that I've, I've I've not been part of, but I know friends who've done it. I know people who've hosted them. Like $2,500 is just so reasonable by comparison. So in the world of masterminds, I think we're trying to price it at a reasonable level because we have a lot of expenses. Like the suite that we have is pretty, quite expensive and hosting it and us getting us out there is expensive and we're not cheap to host a thing either. So like we're trying to do this at the most reasonable level that we possibly can. Secondarily, like you get so much value. So I was meeting, I met with someone yesterday and I said, well, like if you want our incubator and you want all of our books and you want access to the accelerator, like that's $2,500. So you're literally getting it for free. And I know you then have to travel to Vegas, but you should be going to 20 Books anyway. And then it's only like with the one day extra and like, I'm not gonna convince you to go to 20 Books, but like, I think you should. We already had that discussion yesterday or a couple days ago. I will say is like, if you believe in the things that we teach enough to do the Incubator, to do the Accelerator, to do the to read our books. Like, you get all of that stuff, and on top of that, you get like the access to the mastermind. We've never done that before, and like, it's, it's going away in like 5 days. So like, this deal is going away very soon. And, uh, so if you do it before the— before we close it on the Kickstarter, like, you're gonna get just a crazy deal— or sorry, a, um, That's the bonkers deal because like soon it's going to be $3,500. And like, I don't know much about much, but like I do know $3,500 is considerably more than $2,500. So even compared to the future, like next— like not next week, but the week after, like once the Kickstarter closes, like future you is going to have even more of a financial investment. Um, but I think— so when I think of, of the amount of value that you can extract, I think a lot about covers. Because like a $10— a $100 cover is not 10 times better than a $10 cover. It's like 100 times better than a $10 cover. And you might spend $1,000 for a cover, and it might be 10 times better than the $10— than the $100 cover on top of that. And Like, it's not always the case that how much you spend will result in, well, like, determine the success of a book. But like, a book with a $1,500 cover is probably going to blow yours out of the water as far as sales go, because that cover is going to be custom made. It's going to be an illustration. It's going to be hand-painted. Like, it's going to just be something like likely iconic.. And it will. Now there's a point that like, that's not gonna be a 10x return, but like a, there's no doubt in my mind that when I see a $1,500 or $2,000 cover, I'm like, whoa, like that is just exceptional. Right. Like almost every time. And it's because like no one will ever have that image again. That's another one where it's like, I've seen the same image, some of them that I've used on other covers. So like you're you're going to get something that's exclusive to you that is like high-end, that's going to like blow people's minds and going to be exactly what you want. And like the experience is likely going to be better. Now I don't pay that amount for covers, uh, uh, but when I look at the difference between someone who made a $10 cover, made a $100 cover, made a $1,000 cover, like there just is no doubt that generally that $1,000 cover is exceptional. Not because the person at $100 doesn't have that, but like they're usually photo manipulated. They're usually like, they're, they're, they're usually bringing images that are not exclusive. Like, because like to buy an exclusive image even on like Depositphotos is like $500. Like you have to at least be that just to buy that exclusive image. So, um, it's It's not— we talked the other day about expense versus investment, and I try to think about that when I, um, when I, when I buy covers or when I think of events. It's like, okay, what am I going to get back from this? And that $2,500 to go to the event, not only you're going to get enough to, to, um, to, to make it basically free to go, you're also going to get like us with our focused attention. And there's no substitute for that. And there's no way to measure it. Like we measure it by saying, well, it's $250 to have Monica's time or $350 to have my time. Like, but there's truly nothing, nothing like no way to value the synchronicity and the idiosyncratic meeting of two people at an event. Or two people at a talk or two people in a mastermind to be able to make that. And it's the hardest thing to justify. It's the hardest thing because you can't— like, there's no way for me to say, well, I know you're going to get these three things, but I know you're going to get these three things because of how much value just exists in that environment. I know you're gonna get them, but I can't quantify them because that would be unethical. And, uh, uh, and, and, and I can't guarantee it. Like, I can guarantee you'll get access to the, all of the courses and all of the stuff. And like, I can guarantee you'll have the room and that we'll go through the day and say at 8 we'll do this, at 10 we'll do this., but I can't say by the end of it you're going to have your life changed. But I do think you will because so many people have had their life changed by our work and we don't do masterminds yet. We've watched people go from doing it themselves to reading a book, our book, to joining our accelerator and 10xing the raise that they've done within 2 weeks of joining our accelerator, of reading our book. Like, we've had people just exponentially increase their campaign thing. And so I know that moving closer to the 2 of us, moving closer to Monica, moving closer to me and getting our access has worked in the past up until like the accelerator. And I know that when I do private consultations, it also is the same way. So I would have no reason— me personally, I have no reason to expect that would not carry over to like a mastermind event. But I can't guarantee that kind of thing either because like that would be not right.

Good. Yeah, it is. It's so hard to quantify the magic of what in-person does. But, you know, if you think about like a conference that you've been to before and how magical those connections were and how much came out of that, it's effectively the same thing, but even accelerated because it's such focused attention, I feel. So, you know, it's like when you— like if you spend the whole weekend with like a group of friends, you know, a lot of times you're closer to those friends afterwards and something magical happened by meeting up with them. And I think, you know, I think one thing we also can't quantify is like where both Russell and I are going. We're, and I mean, we're partner on, you know, we're business partners on this. So like we're going to the same place, but we, you know, we're really getting aggressive on direct sales and, you know, doubled down on Kickstarter still. I think Russell has, I don't even know how many campaigns next year. So we're doubled down on some stuff that we've been doing. We're expanding that to direct sales overall. And all of that is going to be starting to come out at this event and then leading into our next campaign in March. It's kind of one of those things where if you get in with us at the experimental stage of it or at the creation stage of it, it's far cheaper than if you come after the fact, which 99% of people are going to come after the fact. That's just the reality. Our Kickstarter accelerator, only 70 people came to it to begin with, and then that doubled in our last launch of it. And I'm sure our current numbers will probably double again. So it's like, we know that all the people who are going to take it, most of the people who are going to take it, that was, that was, uh, like, they're, they're in the future still. Like, we know that, but it's like the people who started out with us, um, they really got a lot of the same value for like such a discount, basically.

Yeah. And then also what this doesn't show is just how, like, not to toot our own horn, I'll toot Monica's horn. Like, she's been doing this for over a decade. Like, she's just seen everything. Like, not only as an author But like between the two of us, we've been teaching this for— I mean, I've been teaching since 2011, so like that's over a decade. Like you probably— you've— I don't even— like, did you— you started teaching this at the beginning, right?

So like, yeah, I mean, I've been teaching it for a long time, but for specifically the authors, probably like officially teaching it with like a book and everything was like 2015 probably.

Yeah.

So So yeah, but like 7 years, like, like literally teaching authors this stuff and like talking to authors.

And seeing everything, just seeing all the pieces of like what's going on and where the trends are. And we were literally just talking about trends right before we recorded this thing. You know, we like, we keep abreast of probably different trends, but like across the board, we've just seen so much and like, there's a value on that. And I think there's a second— this moves us into the second thing, which is like, I don't know if I'm right, and, uh, I'm, I'm the, like, I'm the right fit to come there. And I think this has to start with like, do you think Monica and I are the right people to teach you? We are not shy about the things that we know. Like, you— we have this podcast, we have books. We have all of this stuff. We have, we have no shortage of information out there about our teaching style and the kinds of things that we are passionate about. So, um, uh, what do they say? Uh, when the student is ready, the teacher, uh, the teacher appears. And like, if you're ready to move to the next level, the question that I would ask myself is like, do I think Russell and Monica are the right person 2 people to teach me. And if, if that is the case, like, I don't want to say money shouldn't be an object, but like, on some level, like, money shouldn't be an object because like you're gonna get in— you have— you, you know you're getting into the right room.

And yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

And so like the ways you can, you can know if you're a good fit, well, probably if you've read our books before, any of our books, you're like, you got at least one massive takeaway. I have some people that like, I learned more in reading one of your books than I have been doing this for 10 years. So like, um, if, if you've read ours, if you listen to our podcast, if you're— if you feel comfortable that like we know what we're talking about, like that's where I would start and say like these are the right people. And I don't know, you may be in the stage of like looking at a bunch of people or just starting to, uh, uh, to look at people. But like, it really is very helpful that once you find a, a teacher— it might not be Monica and me, like, I'm not saying that it should be— like, if it is Monica and me, like, to double down on those things and go all in on them, because like, you're gonna get further the more you invest of yourself and into us.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is the hard thing. Um, I think it's like a hard concept for people to understand, but it's really about investing in yourself more than anything. Um, and, and part of that investment is like, it's, it's all sorts of stuff. It's time, it's energy, it's like inconvenience in many ways. Like, the way you build a business, especially a creative business, is by doing really hard things. And that's like the thing that people don't want to hear, but it's the truth. Everything that we have built, or at least for myself, if I have built something, it was like I did a lot of hard things to build it and it wasn't always fun to do those things. And so I think willingness to be uncomfortable is part of that. So maybe you've never been to Vegas, maybe you've never paid this much money, maybe this is like a crazy thing for you. But, you know, I think sometimes you got to do those things. You've got to take that leap of faith and you've got to do something out of your comfort zone. Like a lot of the things in comfort, a lot of the things in your comfort zone are not things that are working.

Like, it's just the reality. Well, and like, this goes back to a saying that I think about all the time, which is what got you here won't get you there. So like, I do, I have to I have to find people to take us, and Monica and I have to consistently find people to take us in places that we don't, like, haven't been before. Like, if we wanna go to X place and it's like, let's say a 7-figure business, like we've never been there before. And the strategies that we're employing are not the ones that probably are the most effective to get us to 7 figures. We're not quite sure. We have a lot of theories, but like we've never gotten to 7 figures separately, let alone together before. So we have to look at like who is good in that industry and like we're going to have to make a decision on like how, what paths to follow or who to double down on or like what to do next. And like also like what kind of business do we want? Because probably the thing with any teacher is they're going to teach you like the way their business works. And there's a lot of people who make a lot more money than us whose business I would never want to model because I think it's unethical, or I think it's just too much work for me, or I think that like it's— they're callous, whatever the reason is. Like, I just— there are people I'm just like, oh, well, like, I'm not going to pay them a bunch of money because like I don't want to have a business like them. And like, you have to think of that with any mastermind or any like teacher that you're working on. And some people will be like, you know what, I want to take a course. Like, I'll take a Russell Brunson course, but like, I'm not going to like go and do his mastermind because I don't want to move to the next level like of his system. And so there's going to be a lot of people like, I will learn from Russell or Monica in their books or their courses, but like, I don't want to spend time like getting like even deeper because I don't know their business, or like it's not the business that I want to have. And that's perfectly a valid thing to do. Um, but then there's always— there's going to be people that are like, you know, Monica and I take a lot of time off. Like, Monica doesn't work.

Monica Russell knows I like barely worked this week.

Yeah, like Monica doesn't work on Wednesdays, for instance. Like So, you know, and, and, uh, and like she works only certain hours a day. And while I do work more than Monica, like I generally take— like I'm on sabbatical right now until literally upside down question mark. Like it doesn't— um, it could be 2024, I don't know. But like I can be— I can do those things. Like I have a lot of freedom. And while I don't make the money that some people do, I also don't like have the investment of time, effort, and energy that other people do either. And that's really important to me. Like, and if that kind of thing is important to you, then like that's something that you should consider, you know? Like, if you— I don't write books to market. If you're not writing books to market and you still want to make money, like, teaching from Monica and I, like, learning from Monica and I is probably a really good idea, you know? Like, very few people teach wide stuff at all, let alone the way that Monica teaches it. So like all of those things. Yeah.

And I think we're not 7-figure authors, but we are 6-figure authors and we are getting toward, we are moving towards 7 figures. But we, our approach is really, and I'm not saying we're going to get to 7 figures next year, but I'm just saying we are growing our revenue. But yeah, I also, Well, I'm not sure what I was going to say after that, but, you know, I just want to say like we're not not successful. Like, we're quite successful. And, you know, I think about like the things that people say like kind of hold them back from that kind of success. And one of those is like having small children, which I have, and one, you know, chronic illness, like which you have. So it's like, you know, we, we're doing this, um, in a more sustainable way because we basically are forced to. So if you see, you know, if you see the things we're doing, lots of people think we work a lot too. And I'm like, I think there's like, like most of the indie publishing industry works more hours than either of us really.

Yeah. I mean, I work because I like it and because I want to, but like, and, but yeah, I mean, and so those, and there might be someone out there who's saying like, oh my God, I'm putting out a book a month. I'm successful, but I'm putting out a book a month. I want to learn a new way. And like, we could help you there as well. So, it's all these— to me, like, I know what podcasts I listen to, like, what people I listen to, like, what people I want to learn from, like, who has the right personality to learn from. And, you know, I, I tend to then want to, like, consume all of the stuff that they are doing. Um, so I don't know, like, to me, that's how, like, I would not think, like, you're not right. You have to think like, is the teacher the right teacher?

And then go from there. Yeah, I definitely, um, I've spoken to some people, uh, thus far, even about the mastermind, who have said, you know, I don't know if it's like, um, like basically like they don't know if they've really earned their spot there is kind of the thing. And just to be clear, like we don't have an application process. There's nothing to earn here. Like this is This is like, if this is something you want, then like go for it. Because I think Russell and I are, um, you know, similar to others, but like I think something unique about us is that we really support anyone's dream. Like we're never like, oh, you can't make money with that type of book. We're like, how do you make money with that type of book? Because we know marketing, sales, business, and we can like— we've made money on all sorts of dumb things. Like just to be frank, like, like we've applied The same stuff that we're applying here, we've applied it to all sorts of other things and it works. It's just these basic principles. So we'll never say you can't make money doing this. We want to hear your dreams and I think we're very supportive of people's dreams and show them real paths to moving forward.

And I think that whatever you come in with, we'll have a path for you, honestly. We will. Now we might say Man, that genre is really tough. Like, you're probably going to hit like a cap at a certain point, but we're not going to say don't do it. We want you— we just want you to go through with like open eyes. So this should be an easy one. I'll do it next year. Monica, do you want to handle this one?

Or— Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'll start us off. So yeah, if you— it's tough. It's like, why? Because, yeah, we hear this from people all the time. Like, why do it now, basically? So to me, the reasons to do it now are One, you're ready, so like you don't need to wait. Like a lot of people are like, I'm gonna like get my stuff together and then I'm gonna do it. You're kind of ready now and you can really show up however you are right now. Like you could, like your business as it is today, you can show up to the mastermind just like that and that's perfectly fine. Like you don't need to do something more to like be ready or to earn your place or any of that. So, and then the other thing is probably like the finances of like Maybe I don't have the money right now.

Yeah. That is one of our parts coming up.

I will say—

Go ahead. I will add to this part, just like, we might not do it next year. Like, we're probably— I don't know. Like, it depends on this. You know, people always— it's kind of like, well, I'll finish— I'll read all of the books when the series is done. But it's like, well, the series isn't done. Like, if you don't buy the book, the series won't be done. So you have to, like, kind of buy it in the middle. Because you need the book to happen. And if you wanna do it next year, it might not exist next year. We run, we've never done a mastermind before together. We think it's gonna be great, but it's an ephemeral experience. Also, it will be different next year if we do it. It's going to change and evolve. The Kickstarter course that was $100 is not the same course that is $800 now. It's just the comp— that course had 5 hours of data in it. I think it was more ephemeral also to just like have that, that like that excitement in there at the beginning.

But like it was something special about it.

Yeah. And it's different than doing $500 or $8,000. Like we're raising the price because the experience is changing. And so you'll not get a chance to do this experience like all and, or, and definitely you won't have a chance to move the direction of what we're going to do in the future because like we're going to take those people that came and be like, huh, so these are the people that are willing to do a mastermind or want to do a mastermind. Like, we're like, what can we do to service these people better in the future, or these kinds of people better in the future? So like, if you want to be part of that conversation, like, you need to be in the room to have it.

Yeah, yeah. And I think again, it's like, there's not really ever going to be a better point to join than at the beginning. You can join, like, if you join later, you'll be joining in the middle of what we're doing. And we've had, like, that's fine, like, you can do that. But, you know, we basically have our schedule set until March 2023 with our next campaign. And that campaign is, it's not an event, it's a portal. Like, our business is going to go through that portal and we don't know what's like it's just going to completely redesign our whole business and like everything we offer. So it just, it kind of makes sense to get in before that because then you can be a part of whatever that next thing is very easily. And it is about direct sales. So, and, you know, I would say also like the thing that we're most focused on right now is direct sales. The thing that people, I think that people are excited about in coming to this masterminds, you know, more, more around direct sales, I think, and like general business, but like a lot around direct sales. So I think that could be cool and something fun to be a part of as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And like, so yeah, okay, I don't have enough books to make, or X, I'm just gonna say books, but like, I don't have enough books to make this, to make it worthwhile. And you know, the thing that generally hampers a lot of, of, of, of writers, business people in general, is they go down a path that they don't know is fraught with peril and unlikely to succeed. And the— so if you're at the beginning, if you're questioning, if you don't have enough books, or if you're wondering like if you should even continue this series, or like whatever, you know, We know what's hot. We know what works across thousands of authors. We know how to design certain businesses. We know how to do just so many different pieces of this that no matter how many books you have, and if you have one book or zero books, what is important more is you want this to be a career. You want to do this for the long haul because you might write one book and that's the only book that you ever want to write, and like, yeah, that's silly to do a $2,500 mastermind when you only want to do one book. But like, if your goal is to want to write faster books, write more books, write different varied books, have different pen names, like make more money with each book, like make money in comics or or transmedia your book into a podcast or whatever, a movie, a TV, you know, like there's just so many aspects that you can do if you have a roadmap and we can help you create that roadmap. And while I used to be much more present online to help people do that, even for free, it's just not a thing that I can do anymore. I know Monica can't do it anymore either, to the free part of this. So Like, you'll be paying $250, $350 an hour, uh, $600 an hour if you want one, one hour of both of our time, um, to, to, to, to get that kind of return. And I think that really what we're trying to do is create roadmaps for everyone for the next year that comes to this and say, this is how you're going to scale your business. I mean, a lot of people don't know this, but I've sold multiple projects into Option. I live in Los Angeles, so like, I do all of those meetings. I've I've turned a book into an audio drama, like I've turned a book into a comic and a comic into a book. Like we've done a whole lot of pieces. You know, we— I do a lot of merch. And so like whatever the piece is, whatever the ideas are, if you bring them like you're going to be able— we're going to be able to figure out how it works together. We'll be able to nip a lot of the things that will destroy your business in the bud before they destroy your business. And before you're weighed down with all of these things after doing it for 5 years. So I can tell you spending $2,500 on a mastermind when I first started to learn all of the stuff that I learned myself, because I was hardheaded, would have saved me $100,000, like $100,000, probably at least $50,000 because all of those mistakes now in retrospect, I'm like, oh, But someone could have just told me not to do this thing or do this other thing.

Right. Yeah. And I think you're never going to avoid all mistakes in business. Mistakes are a part of learning. But I do think just looking at some of the masterminds that I went to, I do think that they just gave me a leg up. One thing, I remember I went to one or I joined one mastermind. It was in the coaching industry. But, you know, somebody in the group asked like, what, like, how much do you make? Like, where do you make it from? What are all the sources? And the person listed it all out and it was a 7-figure coach. And I was like, wow, that's like really, really good information. Like just to see like all the different ways that this person made money. And it was like, oh, so it just, it helped me like for whatever reason it helped me, um, it helped— it, it was— it wasn't that it helped me go full-time, it was like it helped me like maybe like double or something. Like it was something like weird where like financially, like just seeing that, I realized— because like one, one insight I got from it was that, um, that it was 7 figures but there was nothing that was really over like 150K. Like, there was no one thing. So it was like 7 figures, but it was from like 8 different things. Um, and so that like really, really kind of blew my mind because I thought that it would need to be from like 2 or 3 things, and it just wasn't. Um, and it's like little insights like that where it's like you can just look at something that somebody has done already and, uh, you can model it from them, or they could be like, well, here are the pitfalls of doing it this way. So you could tell them like how you plan to do it. And they can tell you like, that's not a great idea. Or like, here's what you're going to run into or whatever. And I think that's really valuable. And then, well, I have another thing, but I don't know if we should go for it. Oh, so the other thing I think that is really, really valuable about the masterminds is um, the mindset stuff, uh, where if you are just spending time with somebody who thinks, um, at like a level of, you know, like maybe it's— well, so like I said, we both have six-figure businesses, um, so at a level of somebody who is making six figures already and you are not making six figures at a creative career, maybe you're making four figures or five figures, or maybe you're kind of at the beginning, uh, they're going to just keep reorienting you toward like this 6-figure mindset or whatever mindset that they're at. But they'll, they'll kind of just keep bringing you back of like, like one thing, um, working with somebody recently, I, you know, they wanted to do X and I was like, you can do that and this isn't— this is something you need to factor in. And they're like like, thank you so much, you just saved me like a 2-year like distraction basically, um, just in like one conversation. Um, and, and so I think that reorientation is so valuable. And what you were saying about like the $100K that you spent, you know, a lot of it is like you go down these paths that you're like that, that blow out like 6 months of your creative career, you know, and you don't realize when you start that that's what it's going to do, but that's what it does.

And one of the things that happens when you're at the beginning of your career is like, as the more stuff you do, like the more those things calcify. And one of the hardest things as a business owner to be able to do is to keep, keep loose, keep liquid, like the things you believe and be able to change them. And like there's so many people that I talk to that just, I'm like, Well, yeah, like you built your business wrong. Like, I don't know what to— like, this thing is just not— like, you're only going to ever get to Y place with it. Like, had you come to me 6 months before, I could have told you not to do that. And like, then you would be on a different path with like a higher trajectory. So like, and then those people say like, well, I don't know, like I need to pay rent or I need to pay like my mortgage or something. And like, they're not wrong. It's just like, they're built upon a shaky foundation because they didn't have somebody to say, uh, this is how to build it better. And they didn't have the ability to, uh, have somebody like I have my wife who like makes a living so I can go back and like blow things up and blow things up again and blow things up again until like it worked. And I had a pretty good job before I started doing this, you know, as a sales manager. So like I was making money enough that I could like blow stuff up and my wife wanted to, wanted me to be successful. So she was like, yeah, go blow that up if you don't want to do it. Or like to give something up that was like a— you can't do that if you are further down the path. So sometimes being at the beginning and being like, well, you can do X, Y, and Z, and that doesn't mean just someone who's never done anything. Like it can be a new series, it can be a new like line of business, it could be merch or it could be board games or like whatever the thing is. Or to go back to Los Angeles, like every author wants their books to be optioned. And like, I can tell you all of the pitfalls of like what people generally do wrong when their books are optioned. So you don't have to worry about those terrible, those terrible paths that could like bankrupt you. Like I've watched so many companies go bankrupt because of them chasing Hollywood. So all of that stuff, like, can happen wherever you are. It's not just about like growing what you have. That's also important, but it's also one stopping you from being distracted by like things that will not pay off or have a low likelihood of paying off. Because if you really want to do something, like you're going to do it, but like you should go into it knowing the likelihood of the path is like very not good or something like that. All right. Last one. I don't have the money right now. So this is the dicest one for me. This is the dicest one because like Okay, you owe the money right now. Like, don't do it now. Like, that's what I— like, that's my initial gut. And like, generally that's how I think. Like, I generally think like, oh, I don't have the money right now, so I'm not going to do it now. Problem is like, opportunities are ephemeral and they don't happen— the right opportunities rarely happen, and they rarely happen a second time, and they never happen the second the same, the same way a second time. Monica talks about a mastermind she went to over time, what, over like 3 years, the quality was not as high as the beginning and it went from amazing to like, and I don't think we're going to make an experience, but it was way different, right?

That third time. Yeah. I mean, there were many reasons for that, but yeah, I do think that You know, if, if you don't have the money, I, I mean, the first thing I would ask is, um, do you want the thing? Um, like, figure that out first. Don't be like, I have the money, because sometimes it's a block to even figuring out if you want the thing. So do you want the thing? But then the second thing I would say is, do you really not have the money? Because I find that so rare that somebody actually doesn't have the money. Like, you may not want to spend the money, which I understand. Um, but do you really, really not have the money? Because I mean, most, you know, most people, like, they have a credit card, they have savings, they have investments, they have, um, you know, they have like something. They have somebody they could borrow it from, or they have a birthday, Christmas thing, you know, something coming up where they can get it, or they have a bonus at work, or just, just something. Like, most people have financial solutions, um, in some way if they actually want it. So like, if you don't want it, then like, yeah, like, like, you don't have to do it. Or if you, um, do want it and you look at your finances and you're like, this maybe isn't the best place to invest based on like what I have right now in front of me, um, but I, I just I think that people don't evaluate those questions and make like a truly logical choice. I think sometimes people make an emotional choice, which is, uh, you know, can't afford it, like tuning out now, I can't afford it, um, even though like some part of me wishes that I, you know, could afford it. And the thing is that next year is going to roll around and you're going to be— you're going to be the same exact person who's you know, choosing like the same exact— it's like the same choice. You're not gonna like suddenly have more money later. The price is probably gonna go up realistically, like prices are always going up on everything. So you're not going to necessarily have more money later. But like more importantly, you're not going to be a different person later, um, if that is how you're making decisions right now. Um, so I think just get to, you know, work through a lot of the emotional stuff and get to the place where you really are making like a very peaceful and calm choice around it, where it's like, you know, like, yeah, I have, I do actually have the $2,500 if I want to do it. But you know, my child's like college fund is more important to me or whatever it is like, like, that's great. Like, I'm happy if you're clear, clear about your finances on that end. Where I would kind of push you is if you're not— if you don't have that level of clarity around it.

Yeah, so I'll give you an example from last year. So I, I had a problem with my mailing list where everything was going to spam for a couple of months. And I, I absolutely like make my living on my mailing list. So like, it was very tough. And like, over that time, I got a and a message that was like, it was, you know, Facebook ad that was like, you know, everything going into spam, like, you try our 3-step solution and like, we'll just do it for you. $5,000. $5,000. That it was in the middle of pandemic. Like, that's a lot of money. And like, I, I paid it because I was like, I gotta, I gotta, like, I, I got, I, I, I, this, if it doesn't work, then like what? And like it worked, but they only took like, I don't know, a day. Like it was done in a day. And I was like, I was like, I know they just used, like, I, I, I, I, because I'd been, I've been doing this, like, I was like, like, I could have done this myself. And like, the answer is like, no, like, I know all of the mechanics of how they did that thing, but actually testing it out and making it work. Like I couldn't have done myself. And so like it was $5,000, but like I'll tell you, like my emails are still going into primary mailbox instead of promotional mailbox for the large percentage of them. So it's, and not even spam, like I mean like the primary mailbox in Gmail. So like I don't have $5,000 to just spend on, on a thing. But like I knew that over— that if I did not fix this thing, then I would like be losing out on $50,000 or $100,000 because like, you know, spam, spam is like a 2% open rate instead of like a 30% open rate. Like it just— it's gonna— I'm gonna lose so much money and fandom by doing that. So it was worthwhile, and I'd still find it worthwhile. Like I still think that it's worth that $5,000. I've told a lot of people and they said, well, I could— I don't have that amount of money. And maybe they didn't find value in the mailing list, or maybe they didn't find value in that particular, um, that particular, um, uh, uh, client, uh, vendor, or like whatever it was. Um, but I was like, I gotta do it because these are the people that I believe will fix my problem. And I then went forward and like still missed that $5,000 today, Monica. Yeah. Still, I still think about it. Like it's sad. I missed that 5 grand, but I'm like, well, I got so much out of it. Like, I mean, we had, like we recovered maybe 20,000 emails and we've led to so much additional funding. Like we've had all of our books have had the most funding this year that they've ever had in that series. We did a new series launch for almost $13,000, which we've never been able to do before. Most that we've done for a new series of novels is $11,000. So like, we've gotten— like, we did $10,000 more than the Cthulhu launch. We did $5,000 more almost than the last Godsverse launch. We did $1,000 more than our last new series launch. Just everything has gone up. And we also had that same thing with, uh, with the last year as well. So it's been that the investment was painful to make, but I saw what the other option was, which was staying stagnant or going backwards. And I decided that there's no way I could do that. There was no way I could do that piece of it. So I had to spend that $5,000 because I needed the problem to be fixed. And this was the easiest, fastest way for it to be fixed. And for a mastermind, like, you might have been spinning your wheels for 5 years.

I don't know, like 2 years, 1 year. Yeah, even 1 year of spinning your wheels, it's like you want your $2,500 back. Like, I want my year back. Like, that's how I think about it. It's like, man, or I want the next 2 years of my life back, like bonus, because I spent $2,500 because I know And you know, too, Russell, that like, yeah, you plan your year wrong and you do end up spinning your wheels for like a couple of years. Like, it's not—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the books you launch, the books you put on that plan, if they don't hit, then like, oof, I had 2016 like that. But I also am getting LASIK in like a couple of weeks. And like the doctor said, like, this is going to change your life. And I'm like, Okay, I don't believe you because I can't even imagine a world where there's not blurriness when I take off my glasses. Like, I— and I mean, like, I can't see anything when I take my glasses off. So like, I can't even imagine how my life will change. And so— and part of that is, but I'm still paying the whatever, $6,000 or however much it's like $6,000, $7,000 to do the procedure. Yeah, I'm, I'm paying that money because like I have a— I'm taking a leap of faith that like they're right. Even I can't— I literally can't see it. I have no way to see like what is happening because I've been living this way for 30 years. I just, I, I, uh, I trust my doctor, my optometrist who sent me to these people And these people like convinced me that like they were the right people to deal with this, partially because I trust my optometrist because I've been there for so long. And they said, this is what you need to do. And I just literally been taking a leap of faith that like they are right, that this is the thing. And so it comes back to like, do you think Monica and I are the right people to teach you? And if you do, even if you don't think you're going to see, even if you can't imagine how your life will change, you just have to trust that when we say come to the mastermind, like that, you're— that we're right. Like, we— like, they know, they've seen 70,000 procedures or whatever they've done. Like, they know how lives change. I don't know because I'm one person. And like, in the same way, we've seen how lives change from the advice that we give or that we've gathered for other people. And so you just have to take that leap of faith. If we're the right people for you, if we're the right— if you think we're the right people, this never might never happen again, and it's never going to happen probably at this smallest scale for this price. So you just have to take it on faith that it's going to happen. And I'm a science guy, so saying that is like tough. But even in science, there are leaps of faith to get to the place that you need to do.

Yeah, I'm like super woo-woo. So if someone's like, yes, energetically this will be good for you, I'm like, great. But I mean, I mean, so I'll add to that, you know, like, it is a leap of faith, but I think like your body is so good at telling you the truth about something. So like um, you can kind of do like a heart check, a gut check, um, and see like, you know, is this where, um, life is taking me? Like, is it, is it taking me closer to these people or further away from these people? And honestly, we're— I mean, I think we're good with either. Like, we don't, we don't care. Like, we don't want you really near us if like you don't want to be near us. Like, yeah, because like you're not gonna— then you're not gonna like do anything, and then you're gonna like ruin our, our numbers and like, yeah, kind of. Um, but yeah, like, like I, I just think that, uh, you know, you can tell from, you can tell from your heart and your gut, like, is this, is this a safe leap of faith or is this like, I, I mean, I think the thing to, to worry about is like, is my ego like telling me to do this? When it's not actually good for me. And like, for the most part, you can really check your heart and your gut to figure out like, is this ego or is this like, is this like a pretty peaceful decision? Like the people, the people who work with us longer term, like they're like, they're very peaceful about the money piece of it, if that makes sense. Because they know like they're supposed to be working with us. So then the money, you know, of course, like, like nobody wants to spend any money. Like, if I could get everything for free, of course I would. But like, um, they're peaceful with the money piece because they're like, yeah, like, this is, you know, like, this is money well spent, basically.

Yeah. And I'll tell you, I did, I did everything I could to get that, that, that, that my mailing list back on track. Did everything I could before I paid that money, like for free. And like, I'm very good at email marketing. So like, I knew all of the tricks and all of the things that you can do. And like, I made sure everything— and I was like, eventually I was like, I, I can't get there on my own. I need somebody to do it for me. And so part of it is like, but, and like, part of it was like the person came along at the right time with the right price, with the right product. But part of it was like, I was running from a thing towards a thing, and I knew that, that this person could cut time off of that journey. You meant— you mentioned, um, getting a year of my life back, and I love that because I've always said, how much is a year of your life worth? Like, that is the big question for my nonfiction. And like, if I could give you one year of that, not of your life back, like, how much would that be worth? Like, looking back, like, how much would— I can tell you way more than that $100,000 those 10 years were worth of me struggling and feeling terrible and feeling miserable and feeling like I was a failure. Like, like, so much of that was like way worth— like, if someone's like the $100,000, way worse than the $100,000. So like, part of it is like I was running away from those things without running towards anything. So you have to— like, there's two pieces for me. There's like, okay, what am I running away from? Like, what feelings am I running away from? And then where am I walking towards? And how can someone cut time off of that journey because they've been there before? And to me, that's the big— like, that's the biggie. I'm not as woo-woo as, uh, as Monica, but honestly, over time I've become more woo-woo because like there's just some things that are true that I can't explain. Like, I can't explain the, like, gut feeling thing that, like, this is the person to do with the— to do the thing, so I'm just gonna give them money. I don't understand why it works. I don't. But, like, generally, like, I found that except in minor things, when I listen to my gut and my heart and my head, like, it, it works more than when I rationalize get everything out. Like, I just listen to the gut and it generally takes me where I need to go. And I mean, you would think that over time doing more science-based stuff, like, I would get more sciency, but like, I become much less sciency because there's just some things you can't explain. And that, like, this is the person to guide me to the next step, like, that is— and then going all in on them Like, I can't explain why it works, but it does. Like, I think it's the faith or the, like, you're submitting to something.

I don't know. But yeah, no, I think it's a, it really is just like a different system of logic, I feel. Cause like, why, like, isn't it crazy to think like, I'm going to ignore like all the signs in my body and just like base my decision on a spreadsheet instead? Like, that's not, that's actually like, there is an insanity to that when you think about it. So I do think it's, you know, and you should have a spreadsheet. Like we do spreadsheets. I mean, like we literally have like a whole thing in our Kickstarter thing about budget. Like we both have spreadsheets that we personally use. Like I show people like my huge spreadsheet, but you know, I think there's also that piece of it that there is a logical system to like the good feelings that you get about somebody or the bad feelings that you get about somebody or something as well. And you should, like, it's worth trusting those. Um, you can trust yourself as well as like a spreadsheet or like, you know, because like the other thing is like the spreadsheet was built by you. So like, you know, you can like, you can have made a mistake in the spreadsheet too.

Um, yeah, absolutely.

About like how you organized it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 100%. So those are our 5 things. Um, whether you join us in our mastermind or, or you don't, um, I hope you'll take our courses or read our books and then, and, and that they guide you forward. And I hope you find somebody who can help guide you forward and cut time off of that journey because, um, it's really so important. Like, if I could go back, the one thing I would tell myself is like, do like more mastermind do more like network things, like do more things that will connect you to the people you wanna be connected with because you are the sum of the 5 people you hang around. And that seems so annoying when I used to hear it, but like those are the people that will drive you, those are the people that will help you, those are the people that will push you forward, those are the people that will help you realize your dreams. Getting a better— I don't want to call them better class because like that's not true, but like getting people that are more aligned with where you want to go closer to you, um, is a good thing. And you should plan to do it. You should plan to come to 20 Books. You should plan to at least say hello to us if you— even if you're not gonna do our Mastermind, we're not going to be like, oh, you didn't choose to do the Mastermind. So we're not like that.

Um, uh, yes, come say hi to us at 20 Books. And we love to chat with you.

Yeah, absolutely. Or any of the conferences that we're going to be at soon. And I hope this helped you with your overall decision of your mastermind. If you do really want to go join our mastermind, there are 2 spots left, 3 spots.

Yeah, there— well, there are officially 3 spots left, but we do have 3 people interested in those 3 spots. And so they— those spots are going to fill like very soon, I think. Yeah, um, I, I don't— they may even fill before the end of the Kickstarter campaign, um, which ends next week. And the discount on the $1,000 off, that ends, um, let me look, on Tuesday, right? Yeah, I think it ends on Tuesday. So Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Yeah, I think it ends— I think it might end Monday night, actually. So, um, definitely check that out on Monday because I can't tell because it says like It just says like 3 days to go and we're recording this on Friday.

So yeah, I'm probably pretty sure. Yeah. So you have basically the weekend to think about it, but like, you know, it's going to be $3,500 next week and, and that's, that's a lot more than $2,500. So if your gut's telling you to do it, like, this is the time to go and like and pledge and, and go to go wide, grow wide dot com forward slash Kickstarter. It's the $2,500 option. And again, you get a year in the incubator, $1,200, access to the accelerator, that's $800, and all of the books, that's $500. That's literally $2,500 of stuff. And then you also get to come to this really cool one-day event for us. So I hope we'll see you there, 20 books and behind the backer wall.

All right, see you later.

Bye.