Boundaries vs Rules vs Defiance

Hey, everyone, it's Justin and it's Courtney. And welcome to Made for Mondays. We've changed our location, so we've gotten.

Like a few DM, DM, DMs. DMs. Loving the couch in the background. So we were like, okay, since this is the star of the show, let's just make it a part of the show.

And so we're here.

So it's Courtney, Justin, and the white couch.

And the white couch. More of a cream. Welcome to Made for Mondays. Really? More of our Christmas edition. We had an episode last week. We had audio issues and so I apologize for that. So our episode didn't come out, but we had a really good conversation then. Yeah, we were talking about like the likability trap. Right. And so. But no, today we're engaging with. Well, Courtney will tell us in a second, but it is almost Christmas time. And yeah, we're we from Christmas in my mind. And so with that to start off or I icebreaker today, what is your favorite Motown Christmas song? Oh.

Oh, my son is mouthing to me. Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. I just. I played that for him for the first time by the Temptations. Rudolph that like, you know, when it hits that classic Rudolph, I like that. But then I also love Santa Claus is Coming to Town. Yeah, that was a good one.

You know, church, I grew up so New Covenant, the male chorus would sing every Christmas. Every Christmas. And good old Deacon would get up there in my mind. And there was one guy who was a baritone. I can't remember his name, but he was a baritone. And he had that one verse.

So as I look around, all the people go crazy, crazy.

Oh, cuz the men are singing in church. That's why. So that's it. I don't know what your favorite in the comments, whether you're on YouTube or if you're watching this on Tik Tok, whatever it is. What is your favorite Motown Christmas song?

Shout Out Black Motown Christmas.

Before the mess and the drugs, before all of that. What's your favorite Motown Christmas song? Court, what are we talking about today? What's on your mind today?

So I was having conversation with a Sora who's a psychologist, and we were talking about how words are so overused in today's culture, especially in this generation, like the Gen Z, especially generation about like trauma and boundaries. Right. And I thought it would be really cool to talk about it here on the podcast, but more specifically, going down the line of boundaries. Right. So talking about boundaries versus rules versus defiance. And I don't think that we as a culture have adequately processed the difference, know the difference. And I think that some of these words that are buzzwords have become overused in today's like. And as a coach, the power boundaries in the power of trauma. And understanding your trauma is huge. But really, like, not judging people's trauma, but what really is trauma? What really is boundaries and how do we navigate through them? And I thought we could, like, talk about how these things have kind of come into our world, have messed up our working spaces, have messed up our relationships, but have also helped too, I think, in some ways when they're used correctly.

Yeah. You know, I believe that your worst enemy is your arrogance and your lack of control.

Yeah.

And so boundaries then become the antithesis to that. Right. So that if my arrogance literally building myself up bigger than what I really am. Because I think we need to have a healthy ego. But too much ego without compassion sweet leads to arrogance. Right. And I think there must be a level of control. And so the antithesis to that is then, like, you need boundaries. Right.

Yeah.

So I think it's. I think it's great. I think it's a. Draw your lines with a Sharpie. I think you draw that line with a Sharpie. Getting to what you said about trauma, I. I'm a big agreeance of that. I think we're throwing trauma around. Like, it's like everything is cringy and traumatic. Right. I mean, like, the wind blows and it's just like, I need to heal. Right. And then. But then you have people who are dealing with, like. Like, as a person who my job is, I'm with people in their hardest moments. Right?

Yeah.

That's job loss, person loss, money loss losing. Like just yesterday, I think I told you about, like, just my little. Just walking through the foyer as the pastor of my church, and it's like from this parent passes away. I'm losing this home to, like, I just lost my job and it's Christmas and I gotta get him talk about giving this. Deacon was there from another church who just lost their pastor and didn't know what to do. And Lizza came to us for help. And it's just all of those different pieces. There's actual trauma and then there's like, you feel inconvenience. Like, you know, like. And I think not just Gen Z, I think millennials. I think we're getting really comfortable in everything being dramatic. Like the wind blows and it's just. It triggered me. No, there's. I think I read this book Called Triggers. Shameless Plug. I think it should be my unpaid advertisement. There's a book read called Triggers this year, and it talks about, like, what actually triggers people and what actually should be qualified as a trigger, because a trigger, a real trigger, elicits, like, there's actually good triggers.

Yeah.

We don't engage. Not. We don't. I think we have to engage with those more. So it. Name it. That, like, there's moments that, like, Christmas right now for a lot of us is a good trigger.

Right.

I think Christmas for some of us might be a bad trigger.

Right.

But that triggers a. The response, the emotions that come from that trigger is then what then leads to whether or not that's reminding you of a negative experience, which could be traumatic. And that's, like, abuse and neglect and loss and shame, like, and, like, really, really negative experiences. But the wind blowing or your boss sending you a bad email is not traumatic. It's correction. It's inconveniencing. And I think we're not giving room to actual traumatic experiences because everything is trauma.

That's the thing. And so when I was speaking with her, so she's a psychologist at the Navy, right. And she gave this example of seeing clients who are younger, and it's just like, oh, I was yelled at, and I just was uncomfortable by that. Or I saw some things in the battlefield, or I was overseas, and I saw some things that just make me uncomfortable. Not saying that's discounting. Right? Like, that's your feelings, and that's great, and those are valid and should be processed as such. But comparing that to be the same trauma as somebody, like, falling out of a C5, cracking their back open, losing a limb, losing, like, their mind in really going through traumatic situations and things, that's trauma, right? That's real trauma. And kind of putting those in the right categories in our mind to be like, the services are completely different, 100% right. In doing that. And I think what you were saying, going back to that, I think finally, Millennials, as we've come up, I think we were the first generation to be like, okay, we. We hadn't really said anything in our childhood. Right? We don't say anything. We don't do much. And I think coming into adulthood, we are finally given the tools of language to, like, be like, okay, I don't think that was right. Or, like, wait a minute, what's happening here? Like, an adult world? Like, why isn't. Why can't we buy houses? Or, why. Why did our parents buy houses? And we can't at this age. What's going on? Why don't. Like, what's. I think we're finally. We had tools to use now to, like, give language to what has happened. And I'm not discounting anyone that has been through, like, traumatic events, like, through childhood, through abuse, through all of that, Right? But, like, hey, like, yeah, I'm a people pleaser. I don't think that's a traumatic event because, you know, my parent said that I was a great child, so then I was taught the tools of people pleasing because she kept saying I was a great child. I don't want to discount that. I don't want to discount your experience for people who really had, like, traumatic events, but the language of, like, wow. I think I learned some behaviors. I think I learned some things in my own personal experience that have led to why a lot of millennials are doing a lot of root work. And I think that's important to name it as such instead of trauma work. Some of us have had some really bad trauma in our lives, and don't discount that because it's important.

So one of the things I've learned is that you have to name the experience, right? So, like, like, for example, I. Yesterday, we were watching a show on Reggie White. We were watching a show on Reggie White. 30 for 30. If you haven't seen the documentary, it's great documentary to watch. And he was working tirelessly as an athlete, right? And he was working tirelessly as an athlete, and he was training tirelessly, and he was. And the thing is, I saw his body size, and he was 66280, right? And I am 66300, right? And when I played football at the time in high school, I was 6, 4, probably like 323, 25, right? Probably 330, actually. But 6, 4, 3, 30. And I was a big kid playing football, and it made me think of. I was like, man, I wish I had my work ethic now. I mean, then that I have now, right? That watching him was triggering. Not in a way that was like, trauma. It was like, man, dang. But then the healthy part of me watching that seven years ago would have been like, I'm terrible. My whole life is over. Looking at that now is like, whatever Cam wants to be in, I want him to know. Work ethic, right? Like, if you're really gonna do this, if you're gonna play the saxophone, if you're gonna play football, if you're gonna write, if you're gonna read, put everything into It. So you don't have any regrets later, right? Because that was a healthy trigger. That was like, now there's other spaces, but I want to name that. So, like, watching him was not. It wasn't like jealousy. But I think right now in our culture that have been like, this whole documentary is trauma because it's just reminding me of all my failures. No, it's a. It's a trigger. Wow. He is the same size I am given the same opportunities I was given and he was a millionaire and I'm not. Yeah, that's a healthy trigger to be like, how do I then. So healthy triggers are then. So then healthy triggers are then saying like, this either reminds me of a great experience or it's a learning opportunity. Whereas unhealthy triggers are the ones where it's like, no, it's reminding you of something unhealthy. Right. Told the story a couple weeks ago of my own father. Right. And so seeing him lay hands on someone that was like the same makeup as me, wearing a robe similar to me inside of a pulpit was just like, okay. It reminded me of like the 7 year old me and the 12 year old me and the yelling. And that was like, I need a pause. I. That was. That was a trigger to traumatic experiences of abuse and neglect. Right. I think that's the differences and I think. So we have to name our experiences, Right. And then be comfortable delineating between what's a learning experience, a learning opportunity. Like, I'm talking about Reggie White. That was a learning opportunity for me. Like, man, if I would have given work ethic, Lord knows what I've been. And I'm glad I have work ethic now. So it's not doubting myself, it's just honest and then saying, cool. So how do I ensure that no other situation comes in my life? Right. That happens again. It's a learning opportunity where there's others where it's like, hey, I need a therapist. Because I'm remembering all these things about my father that are just really kind of doing things to me. And I. Not only do I not want to do it to my son, but I'm not at a place to even like, lead him well, because I'm not over that. I think naming this to like, you're saying about the Navy, where it's just like the same way where the young lady is talking about like, hey, I was drowning in the water and every time I go to bed I see myself drowning. That's trauma.

Yeah.

Compared to like, the sergeant yelled at me Today. And I gotta go heal, you know?

Yeah. And I think that leads to the next thing, which I'm really excited to talk about. I think both as us being managers, it's really important to talk about. It's just boundaries, Right. So I'm going to give some definition. So boundaries. Boundaries are things that. That you will not do. A lot of times when we think about boundaries, we think that's what other people. I'm not going to allow other people to do that. Right. Important note, you can't control anybody, but who yourself. Anytime we tell somebody something they can't do, that is a rule. That's a rule. Okay? So I am not. You can't tell me what to do. That's a rule.

Right.

Boundaries are saying, this is what I won't do. Defiance is signing up for something or knowing that this is my responsibility to do and refusing to do it.

Yeah.

So case in point, you know, the holidays are coming up. You have family dinners, you have this, you have grandparents, you have all these things. So a boundary is, hey, I'm really going to be watching, like, my portions. I'm only going to eat when I'm hungry. I'm not gonna eat things that I don't want to eat. Right. Even if someone, like, pressures me to eat, I'm only going to eat what I feel like eating. Right. That's a boundary. A rule is you're not going to tell me what to eat. Right. And I think a lot of us are going into our households, and that becomes a point of conflict. Right? Hey, we're going home. Because now we have language, right? And now we have this. And, like, you're not Mom, I know you want me to eat, and I know you're happy to see us, but you're not going to tell me what to eat. You're not going to do this, you're not going to give my kids hugs. You're not going to do this, you're not going to do that. Right? Like, people don't take the rules. Nobody really likes rules that much, per se.

So what happens is people like people like myself. So with that, one of the things I'm still trying to reconcile and get over and you've been helpful to name it for me, is I'll beat myself up before letting anyone else beat me up. So then it's like, if I know you're going to bring in a bunch of rules, I'll just tear myself to shreds. So then you feel terrible about bringing these rules up, right? So, like, I'VE done that in my own church, where it's just like, I am the worst ever. I'm fat, I'm ugly, I'm stupid. I'm the worst person in the world. And, like, xyz and I'll just tear myself to shreds. And a year afterwards, like, I mean, geez. Like, oh, my God. And I think that's what happens. Like, even watching the SNL skit over the weekend with Kate McKinnon, and it was the mom and it was like, I'm the worst time ever. The worst one ever. She bought him, like, a car. I'm the worst one ever. I'm the worst one. I'm sorry. I'll just go jump in the fire right now. They're like, mom, oh, my God. Sorry. Like, but it's because that's protection. You're gonna accept my. Like, so it was interracial relationship. You're gonna accept my relationship? You're gonna accept this black guy in our home. You're gonna accept this dad? You're gonna accept this mom, you're gonna accept this. You're gonna. And it was just like, I'm the worst of the. I'm worse in the world. The worst. Oh, my God. No. Like, we didn't mean. And so I think. Yeah, there ha. I think. I think there has to be a naming. I think, okay. With all of that, we don't have the courage to be happy, so we put rules in other people. Cause I'm gonna invite you into my unhappiness. Right?

That's true.

And I'll tear myself down to invite you into my own happiness. Right. To get to what you're saying. I think there's no courage to, like, discern happiness. Because as you told me all the time, like, we have not done a very good job in our personal lives. It's not the scriptures. Personal lives of delineating between joy and happiness. So we don't have the courage to be happy. So then we're just doing everything to manage unhappiness.

Yeah. And so even so. Exactly. To manage that happiness. And now we have the tools and language. So. So here we are. You. We. Not we have our boundaries, then. But we're giving rules. A lot of people think we're giving boundaries, and we're giving rules. And that's the point of. Like, people don't understand my boundaries. No, people don't take kindly when you give them rules. Rules, people respect. Boundaries. People don't respect. Because do you respect if people give you, like, a thousand rules? Of, like, this is what you won't do to me. Like, no, this is why you have referees.

There's literally people hired to enforce the rules. And instead of us playing in the boundaries and playing by the rules, we make a place to stretch them. And there's people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in all of our sports.

And so now I want to go into. Exactly. Into defiance. Right? So using that same analogy. So now we're. We're still at a holiday dinner. Let's say you signed up or you were asked to make your famous sweet potatoes. Right? Your sweet potato casserole. I don't know. And you have a special recipe, and you said, yep, I'll gladly make the sweet potato casserole. And then maybe some things have happened and you're just like, oh, I don't believe in sweet potatoes anymore. Or, oh, I don't want to do that anymore. I don't like sweet potatoes anymore.

Or triggered.

I'm like, triggered by sweet potatoes. Now, given the history of sweet potatoes, I'm not going to do it.

My ancestors.

I'm not going to do it anymore. Right. And then you just don't come through. That wasn't a boundary. That was defiant.

That was defiance.

That was withholding, not. Not communicating in enough time and not. We can't say, oh, you didn't respect my boundary to know what I believe in. No communicating that I don't want to, hey, I'm not eating sweet potatoes anymore. Or, hey, I found a better recipe. Or, hey, this is. I just don't think that we should have this. So I did that. But just coming and not coming with what you signed up for. And we see this a lot in jobs, right? Like, I'm not going to complete this. I just feel like it's in your job description. It's what you are tasked to do, what you set out to do. It could be hard, and so you want to abandon the mission. But saying that I'm putting up a boundary, I'm not doing that because it makes me uncomfortable and it makes me stressed. Now that's defiance.

So do you think our struggle is that we don't have. Have a growth mindset?

For sure. I think that we're lazy as a culture. Like, I really want to put out a book about, like, the lazy, busy person. Like, we are always thinking of ways to get the maximum while doing the minimum.

I think we. Yeah. And I've been there. It wasn't until I wrote the book Necessary Endings and then wrestled with things in My own life, where I was like, I want to grow. I don't like realizing that there are people on YouTube or Instagram or TikTok that are making 40. Like case and not right. Have you heard him? The Twitch streamer makes $400,000 a month.

Wow.

Streaming. He has 81,000 subscribers that pay $5 a month for him to stream once a week. He said Nicki Minaj on there. He had offset on there. Like, there are people. There's money out there.

Yeah.

And so 81,000 people pay five, five dollars. There's money out there. But for some reason, we think that because we make 90,000 or because we make 120,000 or make 150,000 or 200,000. That you've made it.

Yeah.

Or 30,000 for some reason. Like, I've seen people that make it because they get. I got $30 an hour now, and it's like, you're still hourly with an event. Like, you're still hourly. Like, you're still hourly. Right. And. And. Or I rent now, and I got a new apartment, and I got two bedrooms or three bedrooms now. Apartment. I don't own anything. I'm just apartment. Right. And it's like, I got a coffee machine now, or I got a kid now. And it's. And it's this. This. We got this. This made it complex. And then socials have not helped. And neither. And honestly, neither have, like, churches, man. And not just church, but coaches and counselors and therapists, because we're all just trying to make it right. And how easy it is to. But to see people like Case and Aunt are out there. $400,000 a month.

Yeah.

Destroying another YouTuber that played football at UCF, got kicked out because he was all on social media. Is making more money as a YouTuber than NFL players are making. And so there's so much money out there. There's so much access. Like, there are, like, Will Smith after that, after the whole run in with Jaden, people were like, what's your opinion? And when he zoomed out and showed, like, the entire world. There's a book I finished reading this year, if you want to see the books, by the way, I read this year. I read 48 books this year.

Wow.

48 books.

I think I read eight. Maybe I'm trying to get.

That's my goal is 70. So Richie Norton, in his book Anti Time Management, his last chapter was probably the chapter I remember the most. And Richie Norton said in his last chapter a couple things. Number one, he said, don't let this book end. You don't reply anything the book. Because the whole thing of the book of James, like, don't be just readers of the word be doers. Then he said, the world doesn't revolve around you. He said, if you take. Change your map and if you take the world, the map of the world, then you. Normally we start the whole world where we live. So when I lived in Wisconsin, I remember in high school, go get the globe. And the first place you went to Wisconsin, boom. So the tilting of the world was on Wisconsin. When you realize that people that live in Southeast Asia, people that live in Africa, the world revolves around Africa, around Asia, right around Europe. With a change the map, there are 321 billion people in the world.

Yeah.

And we think we've made it because we got $30 an hour. We think we've made it because we got 60 grand a year and 90 grand a year. I think in order for. Not. I think in order. One of the areas of my life where I no longer was beholden to opinions or, like, you even mentioned, like, you know, I know this will go out, but, like, normally, church business meeting weeks, I'm, like, stressed out to heaven. Like, the whole world is over. I'm this. I'm like, literally ready to kill someone. I'm gonna, like, yeah. But this year I'm just like, I've been through enough this year in the last two years of my life that honestly, if the Lord don't do it, it ain't gonna get done.

Hey.

And so I. But it's one of those. Yeah, but it's those things where it's like, I just refuse to allow anything or anyone, right. To have more control or access. And I don't know, I guess I just.

I love that. I think it's the introduction of what you're saying of the value system, of what's out there. It's the growth mindset when you value what you have, right? So valuing what you have, you put boundaries around it, right? So, like, we value our home. So we have a fence around our home. We have a security system. We protect our home, right? Of saying this is what will happen if you enter in, right? Not telling you what you won't do, but if you enter in, these are the things that will happen to you. And I think that that's important to when you're discovering the value system. I think so many people are stuck in, like, jobs that just don't interest them at all. Like, jobs that don't interest Them I am. So I used to work at an organization, right. And unfortunately we lost our main funder in our organization and we had to shut down at towards the end of the year. So we're like, you know, full speed mode of shutting down. And it's really sad and it's unfortunate, but it really has like changed my growth in my mindset and put the values on what I will do and what I won't do. Right. Like I'm no longer in the space of my career and God has truly like honored that for me even when I wanted to compromise my own self or compromise my own value in own boundaries. But really looking out and saying like, these are the things I don't like or these are the things that I'm just not willing to compromise on at this stage in my career, right? Or things that I want or things that I don't want, or time of work that I don't want. And it's, it's when you submit those things to God, you win. Once you realize that God A is your boundary and your protection and that there's no one that could ever disrespect me or cross that boundary. That's one thing as a Christian and as a Christian person that navigates know with the gift of God and the Holy Spirit, no one can disrespect me or cross my boundary. Does that make sense? So I don't have to put up rules for you because now I know better. The next time you wasted my time, the first time, there will never be a next time. And so that is my boundary, right.

One of the areas I struggle is because of the seat that I sit in. There's like, there's the boundaries and then there's like the, the teaching and trying to be a bigger person. Right. And then I had to come to the realization, and this is more recent, probably in the last like three weeks. Three weeks where I stopped trying to be everyone's teacher because I'm not. That's Jesus, my responsibility. And it happened when I was in Milwaukee and I was unpacking this text to preach it and saw that Jesus literally says like, no, no, Paul was talking to the church. My job is to equip the saints, not do the work. So I'll equip you publicly because that's my goal. I'm a public sharer of the gospel.

Yeah.

And so the only place now that I equip people is talking about artificial intelligence. Now I'm really getting into augmented reality. Like I'll equip you and then teach you. Because that's where I teach my professoring. Like, when I teach my students, that's different. I'm here on the ground with you. I'm gonna help you proofread papers. I'm pretty. But in terms of, like, I had to free myself of that part of the burden of pastoral leadership. Like, no, I have to hire the right people whose responsibility is to hold your hand, right? But if you want to disrespect, like, even for me, I have boundaries. Very hard. Like, I'm very clear in my church. Like, I think over the top, almost. Like, you can talk about me all you want to. You can try to waste my time all you want to, but the moment you think you're gonna do it with, like, a couple of different people, my wife or my son, I'm a totally different human being. Like, cross.

So funny. If anybody thinks they have crossed me in any way, I'm done. They're like, please, please don't tell.

Please don't. And I'll always find out. And I have Matthew eight times.

Like, it's not me. Like, the Holy Spirit will always. The Holy Spirit will always tell him.

You say something about my wife, he.

Will have these feet dangling, like, because.

I'm very firm with that. Like, you talk about me all you want to, yell at me, call me all types of names, whatever. I'm used to it. I deal with it. Get it on a daily basis. Like, literally, I get it on comments a week daily. It is what it is. See that I'm in. But like you said before about boundaries. And so then, I don't know. I think it's just all things, but then also, we're building ourselves up and giving our energy to the right places. And so I think if there's nothing else you get from this, going into this year with a growth mindset, like, I want you to desire to grow. I think that's establishing values and your own personal vision and mission and not going into this year with, like, resolutions and stuff, because resolve is. I think we can talk about that maybe next week. But resolve is a monumental thing to go in with. Resolve is not. I'm going to work out at the gym. Going in, the resolve is saying, this is what is going to occur in my life that I can control. And this is not even, like, the God factor. Right? And I think that there's a huge difference between, like, going into resolve with resolve cross compared to going into a year with, like, this is what I believe I can accomplish. And this is what I sense God is calling me to do. And so may you go into this year with a different mindset. Like, if nothing else, just a mindset of growth and possibility. That's not. I'm going to do the same thing. Because what happens is so often just like, just statistics show everybody's gonna go to the gym in January and they're gonna lose those subscriptions by March. Right? And so that's why even at our church, we're doing things for like three months at a time. No. Because that's when habits are gonna be changed every 12 weeks.

Yeah, I saw something and I think that's what we can end on that too about some things. But I saw something where it's like a lot of times when we look at our year, right? And we take a look at it, we only. Only look at is our year successful or not? About what happened in the past month. What happened is hope everything is on December. Instead of looking at a trajectory of the whole year. Like, wow, you got a new job, you got a new house, you did this, you got into a new relationship, you got married, you guys this. But it happened in January, you lost weight. But it happened in January, you know, so we forget, we never look at things as a part of a whole and very little. So we put on the weight of, this was a terrible year because it happened in the last quarter instead of saying, no, I actually had a well rounded hair and I had to do that for myself personally, I'm like, wow, I went places in the world that I've never been before. I had the time of my life with my family. Yes, some disappointing things have happened to me, some growth opportunities have happened to me. But the sum of a whole, I am still alive and surviving. And I think going to the new year, just some things is one. Like what we talked about. Outline your values. What is it that you value? Not just like, yes, you value yourself, but what is it about you? What is it exactly that you value that you really want to protect, right? Because that's what tells what your boundaries are. That's it, right? Like these are my boundaries, right? And then determine, remember, boundaries are what you will do, right? So, hey, if I feel disrespected, I won't come back.

That's it.

Not, you will not disrespect me. Now, some things do require rules, right? Like some things do not walk on my grass. Simple, right? Like that's a rule, right? But who, who honors that rule?

Really?

Nobody. But some things do require rules. And so identifying and highlighting that in your life based on what you value and based on that, what is a rule versus what is a boundary. And then where in your life have you been defying, right? Are you sitting in your job refusing to do the work because you've lost passion and you lost value? So now you're in a seat of defiance, right? You know that's in your job description. You know that's what you're supposed to do, but you don't want to do it. And that is defiance. That's not a boundary. And defiance is what gets a lot of us in trouble, right? It's not trauma. It's defiance, right? And that's okay because now you're starting to see yourself, you're growing and in this amazing spot to be in, because you're growing and you're saying, I no longer what I once valued, I no longer want to do that anymore. That's it, right? So never want to be in a spot of defiance, but a spot of continued value, continued boundaries, right? And going forth, right? And then naming what is the root work, right? Why do I respond the way that I responded? Did I react instead of responding? Is this actually a trigger? Is it circumstantial and my hormones going through the roof? What is happening? Am I hungry? Am I sleepy? What is this? And actually putting things adequately in doing that work to be holistic, better people. I think just we all are tired as a people, and I should really put out a book called the Lazy Girl's Guide or the Lazy Person's Guide to Just Doing Work better. Because it's possible to do. To do what you value. Because what it is, is you're not lazy. You just value things differently, right?

Hold on.

No, you're not lazy. You're not lazy.

I can think of I. That that's a whole another.

The value system is different.

The value system.

What you want was, you know what? You're lazy.

In a sec, we could spend a whole time on that.

Because lazy Justin is the antithesis of lazy. He once he likes something, but if you don't like it, I would say that's not. You're lazy in home design.

That's not lazy. There's a difference between liking something and laziness. There's a huge.

There's a huge difference. But I'm saying for things that you are called to, we're gonna agree to disagree.

No, that's not a. Laziness is not a change value system. Because now that's this. That's the same Logic that goes into, like, your boss sending you a bad email, being trauma. Like. No, that's the same. No, there's a difference. I understand not liking something and then not giving energy towards it. There's another thing that when you're doing a job and you just don't do it right. There's another thing when you're doing something and it's expected because you don't value it anymore. Yeah. So then quit.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. You don't. Your value system has changed. You don't value it, so you don't want to put in the work.

Now this becomes more of a deontological ethics question.

Okay. And you put that absolute minimum on it. I didn't say lazy does not have repercussions or does not have consequences. Laziness does. My mom says this quote all the time. She calls me. She calls me your laziness. And then she used to call me out all the time in high school and she was like, courtney, laziness will kill you. It will. It really will. I never said laziness didn't have consequences. I never said that laziness is a value either. I said that there's things that in your life where you. If you've noticed that you've been lazy in. You need to discover why and do the root work.

I can give you that.

Yeah.

So awesome. Make memories before you become one. That's why next year. Thank you guys for joining us for Made for Mondays. I pray that something was said today that will push you to own your Mondays building. Mondays own you. Don't forget, if you are interested in coaching, go to capacity today. The link is in the show notes and follow our blog as well. Capacity today and engage with us. Don't forget to follow us online on socials. I'm at MrJ, Lester Courtney is at Courtney Marilester.

Courtney M. Lester, Courtney, Mlester.

And we'd love to connect with you guys online. And don't forget to follow our two our fun stuff online where my son and I do a lot of fun things at Brown Dad Boy Adventures on TikTok and Brown Dad Brown boy adventures on YouTube. All right, so anyway, have an amazing week and have a great holiday season. Look forward to seeing you next week as we continue to own our weeks and don't let our weeks own us. So God bless you guys. See you.