348: The Happy Confident Company with Nadim Saad

I'm delighted to announce that the National Association for Primary Education has exclusively released a video from its Primary Education Summit: Visions for the Future. This video, recorded by me, Mark Taylor, and Al Kingsley, talks about creating digital strategies for schools. This video is available for you to watch now at educationonfire.com/blog, which I really hope gives you a taster of some of the amazing content that was available as part of that Primary Education Summit. That's educationonfire.com/blog. Hello, my name is Mark Taylor and welcome to the Education on Fire podcast. The place for creative and inspiring learning from around the world. Listen to teachers, parents, and mentors share how they are supporting children to live their best authentic life and are proving to be a guiding light to us all. Hello, welcome back to the Education on Fire podcast. Great to be back with you as always. My podcast host Captivate has just introduced a new virtual tip jar. Now they're doing this to help sort of indie small podcasts, not the ones that have got a sort of a celebrity host with millions and millions of downloads every week, but those of us that are able to sort of provide great value for you but don't have quite the same audiences from that point of view. But those that are really passionate about the show are able to give a small amount in terms of a tip. Just helps us keep this show growing and on a really positive foot. So if you'd like to donate any amount please go to educationonfire.com/support. Now today I'm chatting about The Happy Confident Company. Nadim Saad is a parenting coach and best-selling author who founded The Happy Confident Company to help children thrive by offering them the insights and tools they need to face life's challenges and become the best version of themselves. Nadim works with renowned therapists, teachers, and children, drawing from the latest research in child psychology and neuroscience to develop programs that have already changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of children families, and increasingly teachers. The Happy Confident Schools program has been running for 3 years with amazing results for the teaching staff and pupils. Developed with schools, teachers, and experts, and based on the latest research in the field of social emotional learning, the program requires no changes to the curriculum, and it's all based on 10-minute sessions per day. It is clinically proven that 10 minutes of well-being and mindfulness per day are transformative, leading to children feeling better, behaving better, and consequently reducing the burden and stress on teaching staff. So I really hope you find this a really interesting and supportive conversation about all things related to the Happy Confident Company. Hi, Nadim, thank you so much for joining us here on the Education on Fire podcast. It's always great to chat about something which has a real sort of child-focused idea of supporting children and also that ability to support the people that are part of their community, which of course parents are. So yeah, thanks so much for being here.

Thanks, Mark. Thanks for inviting me. I've heard some of your podcasts and I love what you do. And the fact you're a father to 3 like me as well, and it can be challenging at times. And more than a decade ago, I became a parenting expert because it was tough to be a parent.

Absolutely. So take us into that journey. How did that sort of, that kind of understanding and that sort of experience you have take you all the way to the point of sort of the Happy Confident Company?

So the short version is I disagreed with my wife on how to parent. She was a teacher, Montessori teacher, had a nursery, and all the parents would ask her for advice. And the thing is, she was also doing lots of things at home that she was saying differently to parents. So I realized that obviously emotionally it's not that easy. It's easy to give advice, but it's much harder to do it. And we disagreed for a few years. And thankfully, eventually— so I thought there was no science to parenting. And that if she wanted to give me parenting books, I said, oh, I don't have time, please give me an exact summary. And, you know, the typical MBA attitude, business, just, just show me at least. And then actually she ended up doing that. She ended up realizing that she could do better as well. So she trained as a parenting coach, and that transformed our lives. And then I did a big, big work on myself, and I realized, wow, how much I hadn't been impacted by my parents. So I decided to dedicate my life to this. And then after a few years of doing that, so we became really good at helping parents who had different parenting styles. Like I was the more authoritarian parent. Carol, my wife, was the more permissive parent. And we realized that actually 75% of parents experienced this and that more than 50% of disagreements are actually related to discipline. So we created a lot of tools to help parents just create new habits, you know, more— have a more harmonious family life. But we kept being asked by parents, oh, what about my children? What can you do for them? Say, come on, guys, you've got to do the hard work. Stop wanting your kids to be, you know, either through school or, or to be changed. Um, but with time, we realize actually there's so much science out there and has so many help things, so many ways we can help our children. And my aha moment was when my daughter went through a tough patch the middle one, super happy, very kind. And, you know, and one day she became quite difficult, mean to her sisters, to myself, and just thought, wow, where did this come from? And so I coached her. And she ended up admitting, I hate myself. I thought, wow, I'm the parenting coach who had, who was lucky enough to hear, to actually get this from her. But in many cases, if, you know, I would have potentially punished her if I didn't know better, would have punished her, told her it's not normal to act this way, and we would have ended up in someone who actually, a child who really has integrated that she's not a good person. So I realized there are so many tools we can develop for kids to help them be in touch with their emotions, use these feelings as a gateway to express themselves, to feel safe to express themselves. And so I decided, I've initially created programs for the kids in schools and in families. And in time, we created this whole school program. So because we realized that the most important thing is to help families, schools, and teachers, uh, and, and really create a systemic change. So that's why the, the latest development at the Happy Company is that we're launching our monthly subscription, which brings to the parents and families in general the science as well as the art of parenting. So all of the science that I realized that, which actually is quite similar to the science of leadership. So it's a lot about motivating people, it's about leading by example, it's about having tools to communicate effectively, but also the art of parenting, the art of listening to your child, understanding your child, how they're different, whether they have some condition. So helping parents really navigate that world from the place of science, as well as how can we be better parents knowing our children, because we're the only ones who know our children you know really well. And on top of this, activities for children to really teach them about what we call the 10 powers that goes from awareness, creativity, mindfulness, kindness and empathy, developing a growth mindset. So all the tools, the toolbox for them to face life challenges. And so mixing these two, we know that this is going to be transformational for families as well as schools because there are programs that are also based on the same things in schools. So that's what we've been working on. And it's so nice to see— well, no, it's nice. It's more than nice. It's so fulfilling to see the transformation that we're managing to bring to families and schools.

And in terms of that whole system in one place, in terms of a school program and a family program, is it better to have the two working together as like a community for the child, or do they work completely independently?

A great question. So the thing is they do work independently because we can't expect that every school in the country and every family in the country is going to access this. So we made it independent. But what's really great, particularly the best example is when schools integrate our program, they say it's the first time that the school staff, even not just the teachers but the whole staff, as well as the kids speak the same language, the language of feelings, the language of good communication. So it reduces bad behavior. There's a better attitude for learning. So that kind of having the same language and using the same tools. And I'll give you a very simple example. I was giving my first workshop when I was still testing this in schools. I was doing it as after-school club activities. We had an hour every week. And then this mom calls me and says, that's incredible what happened yesterday. My 8-year-old boy, I was getting quite angry and he looked at me, he said, Mom, you're getting quite anxious and angry. Maybe you should use a bit of PBS. And she's like, what's PBS? He tells her, well, it's pause, breathe, and smile. And so as you see how what he had learned at school, he was bringing it at home. And so what's great is when everything's integrated and they know PBS is people, you've got BFF for breathe, focus, and feel. You've got terms like neuroplasticity, interoception, mirror neurons that we're teaching kids from age 8 to 12, and they bring this at home. So it's much better if the parents are also aware of what this is, but it still can work independently.

And I think sometimes it is like you say, it's that learning from each other, isn't it? And I love it when children can then sort of enlighten parents at the same time because we're all on this sort of journey. Because like I say, there is no kind of workbook that's happening. And depending on your experience as a parent, it makes a big difference in terms of how you can bring that forward and sort of vice versa. So from your experience, you know, you said you've got 3 children. How is the knowledge that you now have impacted how you sort of interact with all 3 of your children? And how does that work differently? Because one thing I've sort of known as a parent certainly is the fact that everyone is different. So those conversations or the nuances of those conversations have to be quite well thought through.

You're so right. And that's what my biggest realization parenting was, that I also needed— I had, as a more third-hand parent, one of my struggles was empathy and compassion for my kids. So I would just have these expectations of them. And I realized that I can't have the same expectation for my children. As you just said, they're so different. And that's so beautiful, actually. But this is why it was understanding the science. Okay, this is what every parent is supposed to do, even parents with neurodiverse children. We actually all more or less have to do things that enable our children to be motivated, to have intrinsic motivation, to have— I can't go to all the details of how, but there's the basics of what we need to bring, actually address our children's needs. But then that's where what I call the art of parenting was realizing that obviously my dyslexic, slightly ADHD eldest daughter cannot be treated the same way. She's going to procrastinate, she's going to find it more difficult to read. And so I have to help her in a different way. But that's why I actually became an expert in confidence as well. And one of the— recently, actually, what's happened is she really struggled to read for so many years. She finally became passionate about reading. So the only stint of passion was when she read Harry Potter and then when she was about like 11, but then disappeared. And then she turned 15 and she started becoming passionate about romantic books, about romance. And initially I thought, well, okay, well, that's a bit of a lot of dopamine, a lot of a bit, but actually, well, it's great. She's finally reading. And she was really struggling with English and she really struggled with an English teacher she had. But just last month, her English teacher gave her back an essay and said, this is the best piece of narrative that I've read in 25 years of of being a teacher and completely transformed the relationship because she started gaining more confidence. She, she started enjoying it. So ultimately, for her, it was like everyone, it was finding really something that she really liked. And then it really managed to switch from, I'm not good at this, so a fixed mindset about this, to having a growth mindset. But that's having worked with her a lot with a lot of tools. So she gained confidence in a lot of things. But that piece of reading was still— and English was a struggle because ultimately she does have more difficulty than others. So adapting to our children. So having tools that work for everyone, that's what I always get asked is, "But come on, these tools can't work for everyone." I was like, "Yes, no, the tools work for everyone, but then you still have to adapt it because most of the tools are about listening to our children, observing them, giving them a sense of responsibility." So often asking them the question, how do you feel about this? Are you happy with this result? So instead of focusing on what we think about them, it's about really asking them where they are so that we can support them to get to the next level. They're comparing themselves to what they were yesterday rather than— we're not comparing them to others. We're just trying to get them to be the best they can in every moment compared to where they were. If that makes sense.

Absolutely. And that's one of the big things with the education system as it is at the moment, is that the, the whole thing is geared towards how they are with everyone else. Every school's, um, in a competition with every other school in terms of their Ofsted report, you know, all of the testings going on to make sure that you get the highest level that you do, which is important for yourself, but they're all kind of gearing it compared to their friends and, and other people. And so it's quite hard, isn't it, just to take that personal responsibility and realize you're on your own journey as opposed to trying to be better than the person sat You're so right.

You know, actually, I mean, I take this example all the time, so I'll say it briefly. I don't know, no one knows actually where this sentence started, but we're in a basically 19th century curriculum delivered by 20th century trained teachers to 21st century kids. And the kids, everything's evolving so much. And reality is, if you look at now how quickly it's evolving, ChatGPT, the AI engine that probably a lot of people have heard of, um, was in conversation with Reid Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn. And Reid Hoffman asked ChatGPT, what do you think are the key things that are necessary to improve the curriculum nowadays? And the answer was personalized education, obviously, was also access to resources because not everyone has access to the same resources. It was develop critical thinking and surprisingly from AI engine, develop social emotional learning because this is what's really important to humans. This is what helps them connect, communicate better. And that's ultimately, these things are exactly what we're trying to bring to the education system, particularly for the social emotional learning bit, but also the critical thinking, this toolbox for children. Is so important for them to become better human beings. And so personalized learning is now possible. We mustn't resist change. We just must adapt to it and make sure that we can manage, because it's not possible that children who are dyslexics, who have basically, or neurodiverse, can actually are taught the same way.

Absolutely. And in terms of your setup there, you mentioned your daughter there, sort of 15. What age are your other children?

13 and 11.

And so as you've sort of been on this journey, how sort of has your approach changed as, as they've got older and they've developed?

I love your questions. The main thing was I already mentioned the empathy and compassion when I didn't. So basically, as when my eldest was 4 and a half, that's where I had the big realization. I won't have time to share the story of— I call it the salad leaf. It's, it's basically a moment where just because of a salad leaf, I lost it towards my child and I realized, whoa, that can't happen again. Clearly I can't find better tools. I can't continue just hoping that the fear of me, basically I was using counting to 3, 1, 2, 3, and then at 3 I got so angry because all my authority was dependent on this. And so I realized, okay, I've got to do something different. That's when I got into parenting on the back of my wife getting into to it. And then what happened is I developed all these amazing tools, thanks to this science of parenting. And it worked really well. But what I was still missing was the empathy and compassion. And the key is, for me, it was a mindset change. And I use this a lot now in my coaching. It's help parents realize that we're all doing the best we can in every moment. So that's particularly applicable to children, they're all doing their best they can. So even with a teen now, obviously, that's where the teen years are quite difficult is having a teen just start shouting from nowhere or being disrespectful. And instead of going what I would've done is like, how dare you speak to me like this? And sometimes it does come out, but it's really like, wow, you are really triggered. You're really angry right now. I'm not going to deal with this. I know you're doing your best actually, but that's not good enough. I'm going to leave. We're going to have to talk about this. And then Then look at the tools of how we can do better, how we can help them not go into this fight or flight. Basically what happens is their prefrontal cortex, the logical part of the brain, shuts off and they end up in their primitive brain. So how do we help our kids regularly be in touch with their emotions so they don't go into flip their lid and into this fight, flight, or freeze mode? And if they do, how do we help them recover from it more quickly by reconnecting the left part of the brain to the right part of the brain? So essentially, in a nutshell, it's really more compassion. Well, they're doing the best they can. So if they're not doing well enough, it's not just because I'm a bad parent, because obviously we can go easily into guilt, but it's because maybe there are other things I haven't thought of yet that could support them. So it's all problem solving. The main thing about parenting, so it's compassion and then problem solving. Okay, is that okay? Do you think that's a good way to react or is that— And your kids, our kids, when they're outside of the act, they're actually super reasonable unless they're already in a fight, they already received too much control and they're really, but in general, most kids are super reasonable. Therefore, when they get them outside the act, they can find some incredible solutions to make sure that things don't happen again. So essentially as they grow, it's really, it's compassion and the problem-solving, the critical thinking skills that we want to develop in them.

And I think certainly a conversation I've had recently in our family is that sense that you're going to come up against this time and time again, whether it's in school, whether it's as a teenager, whether it's beyond that, you know, living on your own. These are conversations and thoughts and understandings that are going to be with you your entire life. So rather than thinking about these things as an issue, certainly in school, like you say, with the different systems in the 19th century, 20th century, 21st, as you explained. I quite like that, that kind of way of explaining how we're all showing up in education at different times by our thoughts and all of those things. If you get frustrated with it, if it's a problem, if you feel like you're being taught in a way which doesn't support you with your particular learning situation, then that's fine. Be frustrated. Do everything that is going to be a natural response. But like I say, then understand it. Then coming up with a way to talk about it, to explain, to have a conversation to try and make it different for you, because those skills are going to give you what you need the next time this comes up. And actually, the things may not come up again in the same way, because the way that you understand it and the way you deal with people going forward means that the atmosphere and the situations are going to be different as well.

You're so right. And what we're trying is really to open up teachers to this realization, because often the kids are not managing to have this conversation. If they're struggling, they feel They have a fear to really share this with their teachers or their parents per se. So bringing more safety to express, that's why the whole Feel It program, the social emotional learning program, which is from nursery all the way to year 8, so to 14 years of age, is such an important one because we are seeing kids really share things that they would have never done or find out or realize. A simple example because it's a short one, is a kid, 10-year-old kid hitting someone during lunchtime. And so goes to mental health lead's office and goes, so what happened? Obviously, so she takes a pack of feeling cards, which is a pack of feelings. And so this child obviously chooses angry, but then he also chooses embarrassed. And she goes, oh, why are you embarrassed? He said, well, I actually tripped on this kid's you know, leg, and that's why I kind of got really angry, embarrassed, and they're angry and then punched him. It's like, wow, that's treated in a very different way. So what, how can you deal with embarrassment next time without hitting someone? Because that's not helpful, that creates more of an issue. So all these simple things, but it opens up an incredible gateway to identify challenges and then be able to say, you know, both families and schools, a safe place to share without being afraid of being scolded or being called not being smart or not— it just really would change the system because we could be able to help children that are struggling and they're not opening up. Another great example is in our journals, we've got mindfulness journals that are used now by hundreds of schools. And so the kids know that the teachers are going to read them. They do them usually at recess. It's only 5 minutes basically, and they're asked 3 top things of the day or the different ways you felt today. But children actually in these are sharing things and it allows teachers to identify what we call the non-vocals or the internalizers, the one who are not sharing but they're struggling, but they would love to have someone who read it, who actually hear about it, but they don't know how to take it. So when it comes from this place of, hey, you're safe to share and then I can help you rather than shame you. And I'm not saying that. Teachers shame children, but children can feel shame in families or in schools, and it's really important to get rid of this, the fear and shame, and actually replace it with real support. And these kind of tools and the resources, things that they're really engaged with, are really essential for this. And that's what we're creating basically. It's a pack of resources that families and schools can really— well, the children relate to them and therefore they can use them in a very effective way to support children.

And I think that's the key thing, isn't it? It's the fact that what we want to do is we want to give teachers and parents the resources to step into their own learning, exactly like you did. Let's say you're on a journey, you realize that it's not working for you, or there's a problem, or there's a situation you can't quite get your head around, and you're looking for a solution. And so when you create this solution, it means that you can take action straight away. Or as this is the reason the podcast exists, it's the fact there'll be someone listening who goes, I'd like to bring something like this into, into my school, but I don't know how to go about it. I can't create a whole program. I'm not sure where to start. And what we're doing is just sharing that information. We're giving someone a starting point to kind of step into that, to find out more, to, to get involved in, into your world, for example, where you can then go in and actually support those people, which is, I think, such a fantastic way of being able to share the brilliant things that are going on rather than having to wait for the next CPD session or do it in that kind of formal setting. And that kind of goes around to the way the education system is and that personalized learning. People are finding out things that they can bring into their classroom, even if it's just a way of thinking, like I say, just understanding that empathy way, that kind of conversation you might have with a child, and also all the way through to, like I say, bringing in a whole program.

You're so right. What's happening is we're hearing from a lot of teachers and we totally have so much empathy for children. It's so overwhelming to be a teacher at this moment in time. So that's why we're doing You talk about CPD, we're doing a lot of CPD for teachers around mental health because we realize how important it is to give them some tools. What we're hearing is like teachers are really worried because they feel they have to be not just teachers but also counselors, therapists to kids and have so much admin and all of that. And so it's so important for them to have simple tools to not have to do a whole new you know, teaching resource that they've got access. That's why we created— so the 10 key life skills are actually delivered through a 10-week video program of only 8 minutes. So everything we do is in 10-minute chunks. So you can implement mental health in 10 minutes a day, which is every— thankfully, head teachers and teachers tell us, oh, that 10 minutes I can do. But if you tell them an hour, forget it. But 10 minutes I can do. And then we deliver these things in a very simple way. So the video program where Emma Willis is presenting to kids with a math professor with a lot of children also that other children can relate to. And what we're finding transformational is that the kids are telling us, "That's how I think. Oh my God, that's how I feel." But they haven't heard this from their peers because obviously at this age you don't really share that, you know, you're going through these struggles. So it's really important for the kids to realize that and for the teachers to have really simple things they can do without adding to their workload.

And in terms of, like you say, that delivery, are these things, they're all easily implemented by going to your website? Um, how does the sort of that sort of process work?

Yeah, it's incredibly easy. There's no teacher training required. Um, on the website that we've got HCM TV, so we have a whole school page and it explains all of that, the different programs, the journaling program, the HCM TV, Happy Company TV. Um, also we've got a mindfulness and meditation program where we help children get into a really good learning state through meditations and affirmations. So all of this is accessible easily. And that's what schools are loving is they've been, a lot of them, particularly since COVID have been thinking, how can I finally implement a good mental health strategy, a whole school program, something. And so we give them the tools from social emotional learning, simple 5 minutes a day, Journaling 5 minutes a day, you just— so easy to implement because the resources are there, the slides are there, there's nothing to learn other than deliver it to the kids. And what we love is when teachers come back and tell us, wow, I'm learning so much alongside my— the children, you know, the children I'm teaching. So this is so useful for my mental health too.

And I think for me that's a really key thing, isn't it? That ability to learn alongside. And I think sometimes there's a misconception there that actually that means that, you know, we're having a class, I don't know anything, you don't know anything, let's learn it together. And there's a lot of merit in that if you're learning something completely abstract. But of course, that's not often the case in schools inasmuch as, as a teacher, I'm a grown-up, and as a pupil, you're younger. So therefore, we're starting from a point of experience different, even if the knowledge difference isn't there. So what we're doing is we're creating an environment where we can both be on a journey which is in tandem, but not necessarily with the same outcomes. Because like you say, the takeaways that are going to be from the teacher's point of view are going to be different from the pupil's but it's still just as important in both ways.

So true. And actually, what you just said made me think, one of my realizations as a parent was, well, coming from a more authoritarian family, I reproduced the model and I thought I have to show my authority. And I realized that sometimes showing kids that actually we're learning together and it's okay, I'm failing as well, does not remove my authority. And that's the same for teachers. Some teachers particularly would We think, "Okay, I can't show the kids that I don't know that." But actually, you don't lose respect as a parent or as a teacher, you don't lose respect from the children when you show them that you can still also learn. On the contrary, you're leading by example by saying, "I know so much stuff," because they already know we know so much stuff. So instead of being afraid of losing that place of authority, it's much better if we come as learner alongside them. It's powerful. It's great for them. They feel even more connection and it works really well. So thanks for bringing this up because I think as parents and teachers, we tend to forget that aspect where particularly with the advent of the internet and all of that, children realize that often they know more than we do on some things. And so instead of looking like we're— it's like, oh, please teach me, tell me more about this, be curious about. And then they find that's where they often find their confidence. Is they realize, oh my God, I can even teach something to my parent, to my teacher, et cetera. And they feel really good about it. It does not mean that we undermine our authority by doing this.

Yeah. And I think to sort of go full circle a little bit, the way you sort of started, the idea of empathy, the idea of having an environment that you're creating, which is safe for your children to explore, to grow, to thrive, that's kind of the starting point because everything else goes from there. Saying this is the right way and the wrong way just takes you into that world of the education system, we talked about, it was developed like this because it's a couple of hundred years ago and that's what was needed then. And the same is true from a learning point of view as parents, and I think also within the sort of the modern classroom, you know, it is that sense of, you know, we can do this together as long as we have the environment, you know, there's respect there, there's understanding there, there's an idea that we're being respectful of everybody, both pupils to pupil as well as to the teachers, and respectful of the learning environment, you know, the fact that we can actually make this a situation that we can all benefit from. And I think that's what I was thinking really in terms of the idea of the experience of the teacher to compare to the pupil, because as the older people, we know we're setting this up because we have an understanding of what we're trying to achieve. But from that, you know, it really sort of starts to sprout all of this engagement and understanding and conversations that our pupils are then going to take forward and our children are going to take forward in a way, like you say, where they are more than happy to put their hand up or to have a conversation and say, can we find out more? Can I ask you this? Because they feel it's a safe environment to do so, rather than I know that you're expecting me to know all of this information already and I don't, so I'm just going to keep my head below the parapet.

It's so true. And that's two things that come to mind as you're saying this is one, our Feel It program, which is a social emotional learning bit. The first thing they do as a class is they do a charter called the Feel It Promise. And so they have to agree, one, that all feelings are okay. And to find strategies of how they can help each other out when children are feeling what we call the red feelings, which is unpleasant feelings and high energy, or the blue feelings, which are unpleasant feelings but low energy. And what we see is that incredible class, you know, basically how children do help each other out because suddenly instead of being, you know, outcasts or, you know, feeling excluded because a lot of other social-emotional learning tools like zones of regulation that a lot of schools use are actually behavioral methods that are really based on exclusion of the child if they're going into the wrong feelings. This is actually really about inclusion and thinking, well, actually I'm feeling this way, that doesn't mean I'm a bad person or I'm not okay. It's actually I need to shout out and I need to not express it, express it in a good way and so that I can get the support I need. And that's what happens. And they get the support also from the peers. So we're so prone for mentoring programs. We're trying to get every school that works with us also to have mentoring programs where, for example, 9-year-olds will help 6-year-olds. And that creates this atmosphere of inclusion, a bit what you were talking about. And yeah, so it's really creating that atmosphere. And particularly in the advent of ChatGPT, which is carrying so many teachers because people are wondering how we're going to ever now be able to assess children because ChatGPT can do it for us or other AI tools. It's just that because ChatGPT, that's what's really interesting with AI tools, the more people use it, the more it becomes intelligent. And therefore, because everyone's using ChatGPT, suddenly ChatGPT is the most incredible tool ever. And it's fascinating because it's learning so fast. But what's really important is instead of having the fear, the same as with the fear of children, is actually remove the fear from the system and say, okay, let's think together, how could we best use these tools? Because ChatGPT demonstrated live again with Reid Hoffman how it can personalize lessons for any type of student according to what they really like, knowing, because it can assess what they really like, what they're passionate about, and then bring lessons that really has more meaning for them. And that's, it's meaning that actually creates the best learning environment. So instead of being afraid of the tools, it's bring this meaning to the classroom through social emotional learning through new tools and will be so much better as a society.

I agree. I agree. And just as we sort of round off here, the ChatGPT is really interesting and I'm not an expert in this and I've not experimented with it lots. However, my feeling is that we already have Google and search engines and if you ask the right questions in there, you get a whole load of web pages that come up where you're just left to your own devices to find all sorts of things which may or may not be true. And all that the AI is now doing is it's doing all of that manual work for you and giving you those answers, having gone into everything and bringing it back out, which, like I say, is then more personalized and more user-friendly. The endgame is still the same. Do I believe this? Is it something I believe is true? Can I check it out? Can I ask better questions? But actually, like you say, your mindset about how you're using these things and how that's going to impact your life going forward is, like I say, well, it's probably a whole other podcast, but really, really important, I think, Because I think that the essence of what we're talking about, it's the same, it's just the tool is actually different. So, well, Adeem, thank you so much for chatting. It's been a fascinating conversation, and I'll be really interested actually to do maybe a live podcast if we can get some teachers and people that are using your resources to be able to sort of be on board and do some commenting in Q&A that way. I think that would be fascinating. So that might be something we can set up in the future. But just, just for now, tell people the website and where they can find out more about you and get involved.

Thanks, Mark. Yeah, definitely a great idea about the live podcast. We do this regularly, actually. We're also at the Festival of Education with some teachers who use our programs, the head teachers. And so it's a great thing to do. Absolutely. You can find us at www.happyconfident.com. So the company name is the Happy Confident Company. Just search in Google and it's the Happy Confident Schools program or the Happy Confident Club for the membership club that we're launching now for parents and families. So thanks a lot for this, Mark. I love your podcast and hope we can do more.

Fantastic. Yeah, keep up the great work in everything which is supporting children and through that community. As I always believe, it's about parents, it's about the teachers, it's about the environment that every child finds themselves in. So however we're helping that, then it's got to be a great step in the right direction. Yeah. So really appreciate your time today.

Great. Thanks, Mark.

Thank you for listening and being part of this wonderful community. With over 300 episodes, I've created 20 resources from guests that have been on the show to help you in your educational journey and those of you involved with young people. Just go to educationonfire.com and you can sign up on the homepage. Thanks for listening to the Education on Fire podcast. For more information of each episode and to get in touch, go to educationonfire.com. Education is not the filling of a pail but the lighting of a fire.