Interview with Nadim Saad – Part 2

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With its 2 juicy beef patties, 3 slices of melted cheese, and tangy Big Arch sauce, the Big Arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop. The Big Arch, the most McDonald's McDonald's burger yet, for a limited time. Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. This is episode 81, and today's episode is part 2 of my interview with Nadine Saad, the parenting and relationship coach and the founder of the Happy Confident Company and author of over 7 bestselling books. We will share the rest of the life skills that we should be teaching all of our children, part of our top 10, and the give this week will be the other half. So we gave you 5 away last time, and this week you'll get the other 5. So you'll get the full list of the 10 life skills that Nadine will explain just perfectly. So you can head over to the free resource library, drmaryann.com/library, where you'll find the link to download the resource. All you need to do is pop in your email address and you'll get instant access not only to this week's resource but all the other free resources across all my podcast episodes. As ever, if you have enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you could follow and review this podcast so that others can find us and we can spread the love. So until next time, here's Nadim, part 2.

Then you've got the power of resilience. Huge one, because ultimately if we, if all our children could bounce back and learn that, you know, they always have the tools to bounce back from anything, they would just go on and try everything. So that's the power of resilience, is showing them that, you know, they already have the tools with a The initial 5 powers, they really have a lot to deal with any challenge. And therefore they can take on any challenge in life and know how to bounce back. And we teach them how to develop more resilience, which is, as I've mentioned several times, actually to go through frustrations, through difficult times, and recover from these because that's where resilience is taught. That's where you really build resilience. And so we show them a graph, which is amazing, which is called the resilience graph. Anyway, I can't show it today, but it's a really powerful tool. Then the 7th power is the power of creativity. And that's for all the ones who have— the more than 80, 90 million people who have seen Ken Robinson's TED Talk. He says, he shows how schools kill creativity, unfortunately, and everything's black and white. So we teach children, as I said earlier, that creativity is something you learn You can learn, and it's both a gift you get from your birth but also something you can develop, because neuroplasticity also applies to creativity. And so it's not just about the arts and about drawing, it's about being creative and curious in every part of your life. And even with a math problem, with the way you play football, all of that, it's not fixed. There's not just one way. And that helps them have a complete connect a lot more with their right brain and be a lot more in touch with themselves and their whole, you know, have a more holistic approach to things. The 8th power—

And it stops the labeling as well, doesn't it, Nadim? It stops them labeling. It's that, but it's also that it stops them labeling themselves as I'm not a creative because whether it's a cultural thing, whether it's societal, we tend to assume that creativity is to do with arts. And actually a mathematician can be incredibly creative. It's about problem-solving, it's about ideas. It's not just what you physically put on a piece of paper or on a piece of fabric or on a wall.

So true. Thanks for pointing that out, because I, I have the best example is actually me. Actually, I had a growth mindset for most things, but a total fixed mindset, my creativity and art. I thought I can't draw, I can't sing, and I'm not creative. It took me years to realize, okay, I wrote books, I created more than 6 companies. I, I actually now obviously launch pretty creative products with my team, but I participate creatively to finally realize, oh my God, I'm hyper creative and I love it. And this is part of the part of my work that I love the most. So how could I tell myself for years, as you just mentioned, you know, that I wasn't creative? So it's so important from a young age, if we're talking 8 to 11 year olds, to teach children what creativity is and that they stop the labeling, as you just said. Absolutely, absolutely. So the 8th power is the power of mindfulness. And I already, for people who know mindfulness, they'll probably think, well, I mean, they can see that a lot of the powers already relate to mindfulness because interoception and power of optimism, power of interoception are already become, you know, about identifying our thoughts, identify our feelings. That's pure mindfulness as well. But in this episode, and when we teach mindfulness, it's really much more about being in the present moment, learning that where you put your energy and your thoughts, actually your energy goes. And therefore it's really, it's about not regretting the past and not worrying about the future and that the present moment is so important. So that's where we teach a lot of the amazing breathing techniques that I could, are difficult to share obviously on the podcast, but simple things that can really change people's life. Actually, let me share one that I only learned a year or two ago and that is so powerful and it can be explained on the podcast because it can completely change people's, basically, I'm not gonna go into the whole sympathetic system, parasympathetic system and what, but our parasympathetic system essentially is our more calm state. The sympathetic system is when we're more excited and we could go in fight or flight, we're in our sympathetic system. To actually reconnect to our parasympathetic and become calmer, a very simple technique is called the psychological sigh. And it's been developed by the Huberman Lab. Well, basically, you may know the amazing podcasts from Andrew Huberman, Stanford professor. And so they realized that people sigh. You know, we have it typically, we go, ah, we sigh. You know, it's a quite regular thing that we do naturally. But they actually identify how to use that sigh to reconnect with their parasympathetic system and to become calmer in literally 30 seconds. Instead of just going, "Sigh," you actually take 2 quick breaths, then stop at the top just for a couple of 2-3 seconds, and then do the sigh. So let's do it again. So breathe through the nose. 2 breaths, quick breaths, stop, and then release. And with just doing this 2 or 3 times, wow, the effect is so fast. So children can use this, and adults when you get annoyed at your children, or children when they are in exam. So actually, when I tell my children in exams to use it, they go, "Yeah, sure, I can stop in the middle of an exam and go—" And I tell them, okay, I teach them another breathing technique for that, but definitely before the exam, definitely do that. So you actually, you're in a good mindset. So a lot of these, we teach them the breathing technique, we teach them the mindfulness is just about potentially just going to garden and listening for 5 minutes. It doesn't have to be about deep meditation, et cetera, which is harder for them. What we also developed, meditations based on hypnosis to allow children to reconnect with their best self. And so these are guided meditations and that's easier for kids to do. So that's the power of mindfulness. Then we go into the 9th, the power of compassion. So kindness and empathy and realizing that with kindness, kindness has a ripple effect. Actually, the best way to make ourselves happy is to be kind because when we're kind, we release oxytocin in our body, the love hormone, and serotonin, really positive hormones, and it makes us happy. So when we're kind to others, and then guess what happens? They also develop serotonin and oxytocin and they feel good, and then they also want to become kinder to others. So kindness has a ripple effect and it's a science, you know, it's scientifically based. And children love this because it's just, they want to be kind actually. And often when they're not kind, it's just because they're going through challenges. So reconnecting them with this innate kindness many of them have is great. And then empathy, we teach them they've got mirror neurons that actually as a species, we are wired for empathy. It's just that often we shut it off. And actually these mirror neurons can— so the mirror neurons are basically the fact that often we see someone do something or feel something, we'll do the same. So it could be an action. So we can actually learn by just seeing. So for example, Tiger Woods, he became this incredible golfer because he watched his dad. Practiced golf for years before he ever touched a golf club. With the mirror neurons, he just literally incorporated everything. Same for everything. And with the feelings as well. That's why we cry when we see someone crying, or well, unless we shut it off, interestingly. So we teach children that it's okay to actually be empathetic. And finally, the big one, the power of acceptance. And when you do a lot of personal development work, you realize that ultimately it all leads to acceptance. Because it's— but it's the 3 keys to acceptance of ourselves. So we teach kids to accept themselves, but that we're all unique and we can go through different parts. And it's about— when I mentioned my 8-year-old child not liking this angry part, well, it's about accepting that she's got this angry part, accepting all parts of ourselves. It's also about accepting others and the fact that we're all unique and everyone's different and that we may have different opinions, think differently, and it's okay. And finally, it's about the power of what is, realizing that the more we're against an event and we're frustrated by the event and the more it affects us and the less we're actually capable of dealing with it. So accepting what is and instead As we said, seeing the other parent mistakes, all of that. Basically, we use all the powers to accept and to deal with anything that comes our way. And that's— so that's the wrap-up of really accepting.

Yeah, they're so great, and that it teaches this kind of rounded individual, because I think so often we get caught up in parenting the child and doing what we need to in that moment that we forget that fundamentally this child is— we're almost— I sort of take this view that we're custodians of our children for a period of time until they become adults. And then, you know, our role is to then send them off into the world to become these happy, confident individuals that then create their own world. And what I love about those 10 is that actually it's not about playing the short game. It is about playing the long game for the adult that we're then sort of helping facilitate and grow into this capable individual that then is off into the world and making their own choices and making those sorts of decisions. Is that how you envisaged it when you were pulling it together?

You've really absolutely hit the nail on its head. It's about becoming a better human being, and therefore becoming a human being is actually something that you learn if you learn it earlier on, and that's all about prevention. I mean, everything we do is about prevention because what we realize is obviously with adolescence, with the hormones changing, with the, and a lot of people don't know, but actually also our brain rewires. So we lose a lot of our neurons, our synapses, et cetera, because the brain basically ditches what's not necessary. So it's really important that we ideally before adolescence, we realize what is important because then our brain rewires for the best. So when we learn these things early on, we can then apply and practice them and they become second nature. So at adolescence, where it becomes harder, we already have the tools to deal with that, with this more difficult moment. And then we grow to be better human beings, to better relate with ourselves so that we can better relate to others as well. So that's exactly what we're trying to teach children, is to be a well-rounded human being. From a completely holistic approach. And the 10 powers do not precede— we've got also the power of sleep, we've got the power of movement. So these are, but these are actually skills that they're not the life skills as in from the brain side of things. That's why we limit to 10 powers in our program. Yeah.

And that's crucial because the idea is then what we're then doing is preparing a whole generation with all of the knowledge and the skills so that when they become parents, and I know it's hard to believe with our children, when our children are these tiny little bundles that they will at some point, if they choose— not all will choose— but if they choose to become parents, then actually they're equipped from that conception in terms of knowing that bit. Nadeem, I want to take you back to something that you said around the— because I think this is really crucial around the message sort of that we're getting out to parents who are listening to this episode, who will be thinking, I completely buy into what you're saying, but maybe they're struggling to put some of these things in place. So, you know, a lot of what you said around the psychology is very much in terms of parenting can be related to leaderships. And in lots of ways, books will talk about us being the CEO of our own companies, which is our families, and we create the culture within those. But one of the things that I think as parents that we're not always great at, and I will admit that I am not, I've had to really really work on this. I'm naturally quite a bossy person. I like to take command. I like to be solution-focused. Is this notion of listening. It's such a crucial skill because if we listen to our children, we hear what they say and we create space for them to practice using their voice. Because we can teach children to use their voice, but if we don't truly listen, then what they say goes on unacknowledged, and I think then leads to these clashes with teens later who don't have conversations with us because we fundamentally don't listen. How do we practice and cultivate this, this power, true power of listening, listening to actually take the information on, but without listening with our response already in our head?

Well, thanks for addressing one of the things I feel most guilty of. Because, for example, my— it is so true. And I have a— so I'm going to start with a negative about what I still sometimes do, is my 10-year-old child is quite chatty. So I'm the lucky one who still has someone who's come, you know, often it's not— I don't have to ask her, how was school today? She'll start sharing. And often, because it'll be a moment where I'm still in my work mode, I'm trying to come into— but often I'll hear with half an ear. With a half ear, or whatever the expression is. And I realized, and with time I realized, well, actually she's now— and often I'll sometimes take my phone and just go, yeah, I'm listening to you. Oh my God. So now I've got basically— I'm the dad who basically is always on his phone and who's never listening. And it's very difficult to now change that perspective. But what I like, what I think is important for parents to realize, is less time but quality time, and really focused with with good listening is much better than lots of time where we're not actually listening, we're not really interacting. And that is so crucial. So instead of feeling guilty of not spending enough time, it's actually more important to spend the quality time. And in this case, as you said, deep listening is so important because within—

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There are actually always nuggets in what she's sharing. If you just dig a little bit more, you suddenly realize that something happened in maybe a friendship or something. So it's so important to have this. And one of the things that, that I realized, the most valuable thing is, for example, journaling from an early age. So when they have a structured journal, that's why we launched our Happy Confident Me mindfulness and gratitude journals. It's the best moment in the evening. It's an amazing moment where everyone's winding down and the kids love to share. But if they don't have structured journaling, it's much harder. You ask them questions, they don't relate. When you ask them, what are the different ways you felt today? And they circle it and then they go, oh, actually I felt worried at that point and I felt frustrated or angry. And it's like, oh, and they start sharing and you discover a whole world. That you didn't realize. And also what they're grateful for. So important to rewire their brain. We use the 3 wishes of positive psychology. Basically, when you express 3 wishes, you just rewire your brain for positivity. In just a week, you're already happier, you sleep better, you have less anxiety. We've got more than 3,000 reviews on Amazon of people who say, you know, in less than a week or 2, this has already completely changed my child. So it's this conversation, really Useful conversations are so important. And ideally we need, it's great to have resources to trigger them. So feel-it cards, mindfulness journals. So it's not about our products, it's any product out there that can really help engage because often kids will, if you ask them, how do you feel? They don't always know. Or how you felt today? They won't always, yeah. So it's really helpful to use some resources, some support. And then comes the when you have a problem and that you really mentioned, it's so easy to go into solution mode. Seriously, go, "Oh yeah, oh, you should do that." Like many parents will do that. And that's where you've got to bite your lips and realize, my God, the most important thing I can do for my child is to get them to solve their own problems, to have the solutions rather than always say, you know, rather, "Oh, my mom would do that." It's like, "Oh, what am I supposed to do now?" And so the listening technique in this case is really what we call active listening. So rephrase. So your child is sharing something, an issue. You'll go, okay, oh, that seems to have affected you, or that may have made you sad or angry or frustrated or whatever. Try. And the good thing is, because you're kind of questioning, they'll correct you, particularly when they have the language of feelings and emotional literacy. They thought correctly and say, no, actually, that's how I felt. Like, okay. And then instead of saying, oh, well, what did you, you know, what you I hope you did this or something, which would come from me like, oh, you surely you did this. You just ask, so what did you do? And sometimes they haven't done something. And that's where instead of going, oh, you have to do this next time, you just go, so what are you going to do about it? The key question is, what are you going to do about it? Suddenly you've got put this problem back onto their, you know, on their shoulders. And when they haven't in practice and they haven't trained, they'll often go, well, I don't know, kind of looking at you, particularly if you've been the sort solution finder, they'll just go, "Well, I don't know. You're supposed to tell me." And that's where you're going to go, "Well, no, actually, you know, you're not going to be with me all the time. And at some point you're going to find your own solution." So, and that's where you ask them, "Would you like me to give you ideas?" Yeah. And that's where you can give them, you can give them 2 or 3 choices, 2 or 3 ideas. And ideally the first one is a pretty bad one. Even if it's a funny one, for example, you know, "Oh, maybe you could just hit your friend because you got you who said that. And they'll look at you like, kind of, what, what are you saying? But it's important that they— because the particularly younger children will tend to pick the first solution. So it's important that the first solution is not the best one.

I love that.

That's so incredible. And then you go with the second or third. And then you— what's important, you don't say, so which one did you choose? You'll actually ideally say, "Well, good luck with this." And that's where they— obviously you'll be biting your tongue, always wanting them to share what happened, what happened. But it'll come. So ideally, of course you can ask, but don't be too insistent of wanting to know, because that's where some children who are more internalizers, they'll shut down, because they don't want too much curiosity. They want to share on their terms when they're ready. And that's why with internalizers, it's great to have a resource like a Feel It Pack, which is basically our Feel It cards where you ask children, what are you feeling, how you'd like to feel. And as they say how they're feeling, a lot of things come out. Or the journals or other resources that helps them express themselves. And that's what will come out. And hopefully you'll realize that they apply what they thought. And if they didn't, it's okay because just by going through the solutions, It helped them be more in control of that issue and feel that they're responsible, and it just disappears. It's not a traumatic event for them because it's all about— trauma is not about the event itself, it's about the interpretation that we have of an event. And unfortunately, small things can be traumatic to children. I only recently discovered that I felt at 13, I felt completely rejected by my first— it wasn't even a girlfriend— my first kiss. And I, and I still carried it in my body. I had to do some emotional release on that. It was fascinating. I was like, oh my God, we really need to teach children all of these things, because then we carry rejection from an early age without even realizing it. So it, it seemed like such a small event. I didn't realize, you know, we just stopped kissing one day, and it's just— but actually I felt it like rejection. So anyway, I'm not—

And I think you raise a really important thing. I think that comes up with parenting as well quite often is that— is this notion of it doesn't matter how we view that situation, whether it's traumatic for our child or not, whether it's insignificant or not that their friend didn't ask them to a sleepover, or that they didn't choose them as a partner for an activity at school. It's how our child interprets the event and the significance of that event that leads to whether it's trauma or whether it's not. You know, they talk about trauma with a capital T and a cap or a little t, but whatever we want to label it, it's how our child experiences that. And it's really important around listening, which is why I think that's such a crucial— and I'll put my hand up, I am not always really great. It's something I have to work on. Yeah. But it is this: the more we actively listen, the more we create that the more that we are conscious and intentional of, I'm putting my phone down for the next 5 minutes, I'm going to be 100% present for my child. If we don't do that, then we don't pick up that for our child, not being picked as the partner for their friend in the class activity has significantly impacted how they feel about themselves. Absolutely.

And it's not to make parents feel guilty here because it's always that describe balance of parental guilt is useful because it makes us do something about it. But it's important to not go from guilt into shame or into feeling powerless and, oh my God, all the mistakes I made, because you could always do better. And actually, our children are— our brains are malleable. Our children are, you know, everyone is forgiving. But we have to just, as you just said, once we realize it's not about our perspective and convincing our children that it wasn't that bad, that we're going to help them. It's actually about realizing how bad it can be for them and then help them see that in a different perspective. I love— I was listening to a podcast and Thomas Hubl was saying something. He's a big spiritual teacher. He's saying something so simple, and you relate to that because obviously we're both very big about feelings. But one that I hadn't often addressed this way was fear. Because I know how to address several, a lot of emotions now, but fear, I never saw it this way. Actually, when I ask people in my audiences, 100% will answer, so what do you do when your child comes and says, oh, I'm afraid of something, and you don't even see anything? The most natural reaction is like, oh, but don't be afraid, there's nothing to be afraid of. Because obviously we don't see anything to be afraid of, so why would we? So we're just reassuring the child. The thing is, it's crazy to think that, but it's the reality, is the child will then think, "Oh, I'm not supposed to feel that way. I'm not okay." Every time we deny our child a specific feeling, that's what they think, unfortunately. And we can't help. Just imagine telling the child instead, "Oh, you're feeling afraid. Come here," and just giving them a small hug. So, already releasing oxytocin. So helping them rewire, basically retraining their mind, their whole body around this. And then we can reassure the child. We've acknowledged that they felt scared, whether we, you know, whether we like it or not. And we think, oh, come on, I want to toughen them up. We don't toughen them up by just saying, oh, there's nothing to be afraid of. Come on, just hide this fear. And I'm talking from a perspective that affects me so much because I never felt fear in my life. So every time, every So it's interesting because you think, oh, amazing. Why would you want to feel fear? Because I basically would start projects, never be afraid of anything, can speak to audiences of thousands, not afraid, supposedly. But now that I've read Deep Work, I realize actually there is fear. I just shut it off constantly. And the problem of shutting off fear is that then I'm not actually connected to my intuition. And I'm not— sometimes I do things without while being completely aware of them. Or for example, speaking too fast and I'm in my— like I'm doing now. So it's really stay connected. And for children particularly. So it's keeping this awareness in this body-mind connection is so important. And that's what allows our children. So feeling our feelings in every moment and just acknowledging them and realize that they're okay. I just need to manage them. And manage, you know, my— it's just, wow, so empowering. And so that's what we hopefully can bring to children and this whole new generation. Yeah.

And I think this notion that any feeling that we have is legitimate, we can feel anything and it's okay to experience that. So obviously, clearly some like fear and anxiety, we don't want to experience as they're not comfortable feelings, but it's— that's it. They're all, all right to experience. What we're helping children is make different choices as a result of those emotions, ones that are the most adaptive to them in that moment. Exactly.

And in many ways, because they learn the power of optimism, they're all built on each other because they're, they're learning all about that, then they're going to feel less anxiety and less and less overwhelmed and less everything, less anger. But it takes time. So instead of wanting to just convince a child that they shouldn't be feeling that, which we often do, because we're also uncomfortable with these feelings. So we don't want our children to feel that because we don't like that either. And instead of that, by acknowledging and realizing that it's going to take a bit of time to help them get out of it, so, but they, but keep faith that, you know, you can help your child be less anxious, be less overwhelmed, etc. But it's going to have to be using some techniques and a bit more time rather than just telling them they're not supposed to feel that way. Yeah.

And I think those 10 skills are things that actually, as parents, as I, as you were going through them, I was busily writing them down, in lots of ways are almost a template for us as parents to be able to be one looking through and looking at that, my power of my resilience, the power of my empathy, the power of my introspection. And on that note, I'm going to put you on the spot again, Nadim. I will ask you, as a parent, we're all a work in progress. We have got days where we're, we think we are absolutely nailing and acing the whole parenting gig. And then the next day we feel like we're just You know, what, what, why was I even allowed to have children? But for you, what are the— or maybe it's just me— for you, what are the things, if you, there were, if you could sum 3 things up that you do for yourself as a parent to try and ground you in those 10 areas, what do you do that, that work most of the time to help you? Wow.

Please send me the questions next time. So the 3 things, definitely anticipation. So, so being, so being more realistic about what my children can and can't do. So it being, so it helps me be better prepared. So for example, you mentioned, you know, different age groups. So having a child disrespect me, you know, having no speaking, it's really difficult for me It comes also from my culture, from my dad. I— it's— even if I remind my brain, it's, it's just unacceptable. So helping myself realize, you know what, it's, it's age-appropriate. They're going to— in some cases, they're really going to be disrespectful. And if I react super strongly, I'm actually doing the exact opposite. I'm teaching them that it's okay to be disrespectful. So the change of mindset— so to constantly realize that it's my mindset, it is my— often my upbringing that is giving me this belief. It helps me a lot because then I can just look at it more calmly and say, okay, that's not okay. You cannot speak to me like this, but I see that you're super angry or you're super frustrated. Let's deal with this later. Or I actually, literally, they learned. So the same way I rewind. So that's a very useful one for me. Sometimes I rewind because suddenly I react in a way I realize, okay, I'm not going to get anything right now because I really see the opposition in front of me. So I rewind and then do it differently. And I teach them to rewind as well. So if they've been disrespectful, I tell them, oh, you may want to rewind. And then they'll actually, more often than not, they'll, even though they're, you know, teens and they obviously, they are in resistance mode, they will do it differently. And so more respectfully, and then we can have a proper conversation. So it's really the belief So mindset, realizing that they're doing the best they can in every moment with the knowledge and tools they have. And therefore, instead of me thinking, oh, they're horrible children right now, it's like, oh, wow, they're an angry teen who's not managing their emotions. So this change of mindset really helps me. And I have to admit, that's where you say what I do regularly. It's because I have to remember, remind myself all the time. So that's why it's a self-care routine to go, okay, one second. For example, something's happened and they're not going to be happy. I'd better be prepared for, but they're doing the best they can right now. And the best I can is to help them go through this in a different way. So that's a big one. The rewind is that I just mentioned is a big one of, but sorry, it's not part of the 10 powers. So this change of mindset is really because of catching my belief. So the other one is really the feeling, the power of interception is something, the reason every thought, Several therapists have told me that obviously I'm writing what I'm writing because I'm the one who needs this the most, because this is the reality. And the power of interception is something that hasn't come easily to me because I shut off my feelings for many, many years. And so I need to regularly practice, remember that actually even if it's not a big feeling, because I tend to shut them off, when I feel something, it's important that I use my Feel It cards because when I think— oh, well, when I think, you see, I just said it. When I think, what am I feeling? It's difficult for me to connect to these feelings. I'm not 100% sure. And sometimes I feel like, oh my God, I can't feel my feelings again. So I go into this inner bully of like, oh no, again I can't feel my feeling. And that's why I use my Feel It cards because then with using cards instead of just trying to think about the feelings, you use a different part of your brain. And therefore I can actually just pick 3 or 4 cards and I realize that's what I'm feeling. And so doing this more regularly than I used to really helps because it's important. Because once you acknowledge your feelings, you're not— your own feelings, you're not pushing them under the carpet, then it doesn't come out. Because the more you suppress feelings, then the more they're going to come out at some point. So actually it's important to regularly get this out. So I think that's the really important thing that I do for self-care. And then the third is definitely more stillness. So, you know, it doesn't have to be always meditation. It can be meditation, but it can also be just a walk in the park and being still and not constantly be thinking. Because just these 10, 15 minutes really helped like to ground myself and to then not be as hyper as you've seen on this podcast. I have a lot of passion.

I was literally just gonna say that, Nadim. It's not hyper. It's, there's so much passion, and I think that's why, you know, I just love, like, you know, I could talk to you for hours, that there's so much passion behind what you do. There's an acknowledgement and a self-awareness, and I'm so, so grateful that you've taken time out to talk to us. And what we will make sure that we share all of the links to the Happy Confident Company's resources, which are phenomenal, because I just think that giving children tools, and it's about having things that they can touch, that they can play, that they can download things in with the right prompts are so crucial. And for all children, whether they're the ones that sit and ponder over things or whether they're the ones that come out and blurt out everything that's happened during the day, it's just having those sort of tools to hand is just so amazing. So Nadim, I want to thank you so much. I think there are so many other things that we didn't get to talk about. So I think we'll have to have you back on to have another conversation. But I'm so grateful. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Marianne. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for all your great contribution too. And I want to mention something, the HTM TV, so which is our Happy Company TV program, describing the 10 skills with Emma Willis presenting it, is actually currently free for schools, and therefore it'd be amazing if any teachers listening to this or parents who want to see this in their school just contact us on contact@happyconfident.com and they'll be able to access the program for free for a certain limited period. But we want this to be accessible for everyone and to help children. So they'll learn the 10 powers and it's dedicated for children 8 to 11, so year 4 to year 6. So thanks a lot.

Oh my God, that's amazing. We will make sure that we, for those of you listening, for that in the free resource library. We will share the links so that you can go straight to that because that's such an incredible thing that you're doing, and for parents and schools to be able to access it for free is amazing. Thank you, Nadine.

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