Alec Hanson : How to Start and Grow Your Digital Presence as Lenders / Brokers / Realtors / Industry Leaders

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Neil Home Podcast. Today I have a good friend and a guy who I met, I think just on LinkedIn is where we met Alec Hanson of Loan Depot. And you've probably seen Alec everywhere because he's been putting out I don't know how many pieces of content you put out a day, but he's like me. He puts out a ton of content on all the platforms. So we hit it off a few months back. And I really like Alec because he has the same mindset of moving the industry forward. So he's putting out helpful content, bringing on valuable guests, putting out content, leading by example, which is what I'm trying to do as well. And so I appreciate you jumping on with me, Alec.

Yeah, dude, I love our conversation, man. This is super fun.

Yeah, big time. So just real quick, can you give us the 1 minute bio on yourself for people who don't know?

Yeah.

Heck yeah.

I got into this business because I asked my dad for a job when I was up at school in Berkeley and I shipped loan files in downtown Oakland. And then I sat on converted naval housing that was converted into condominiums and I took applications for a builder trying to figure out how to do loans. When I graduated, I started as a receptionist in a strip mall, making 90 bucks a loan doing HELOCs in 2004. And then I became a junior, like a production assistant, like a top producer. I learned the game. I was told to go out and get eight business cards from Realtors every day and then I could come back and do the rest of my job. And I ended up just falling in love with the industry. So I did a lot of loans through my career. I decided I would be an idiot and go into management, which is a whole nother podcast, but really blessed by this industry I'm finding myself. And I was a top 1% originator in Scotsman's Guide and all that stuff. I did 185 million in my best year and now I'm the divisional manager, whatever that means for the Pacific Southwest. Around eight states and everyone's having a great year, but we should crest that $6 billion mark this year, which I'm pumped on. But that's also saying it's snowing and I didn't cause that. So I'm just very blessed. But yeah, man, it's been fun getting into the digital space. I didn't get fully in to this space until literally a little over a year ago. I was just socially kind of in, not professionally in. And man, it's rad.

And that is a great point because it's amazing how fast. I mean, some people say a year is a long time, but for me, some not that long. Time flies. Anyways, think of what you can accomplish one year. I mean, think of the scale of communication you can accomplish on these platforms. It's truly amazing because like I said, without it we would have never met. How many people have you met over the last 12 months that you would have never, ever contacted or met with incredible relationships?

And it was this aha moment for me because in origination, going out to broker previews and open houses and networking events, I used to hear all the time, dude, Alec, I see you everywhere. And that's how I prospected agents and built relationships and showed up through consistency. And then this aha moment was like, oh my gosh, I have been blowing it like the same opportunities here online, like at scale, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, it's the same thing. I now get the chance to do the same thing. And it was a big, like wake up moment.

Yeah, big time. So one of the things I kind of, you know, try and do a lot of is get more into the dirt as far as tactics go because there's so much content out there now, which is at a high level.

Yeah.

And you know, I don't know who brought this term up. I think it was actually Gary Vee. It says clouds and dirt. Like we want to be have stuff in the clouds and have these big things that going on and the mindset and all this stuff. But also we want to get in the dirt, you know, as far as like what are we doing daily for our business. And so I've been kind of drawn more towards the dirt in the last few months only because I've had so much of the high level content, you know, and I don't know if I'm just tired of it, but I think a lot of other guys have said, yeah, I could do. I've even had comments to me like, I could do a little less of the high level stuff. Can we get into more like tactics and real things that's going on today?

Yeah, it's funny, some of my most popular content is literally like how to set up your camera. Yeah, I'm like, how to set up, like how do I get an intro? I'm like, I don't think you need that. But like it's super tactical. But like that's where I think, you know, I get off and talk about motivation and mindset and it's like snooze time. But like, I get up and talk about why your Zoom call sucks and how you're. And why you need to set this up. And everyone's like, yeah, yeah, give me that stuff, like how to use Canva. And I'm like, yeah, okay, we'll talk about Canva for a while. It's amazing.

And so, you know, if anybody's listening to this or watching this and they want to say, well, how do I start my podcast or how do I start my content strategy? I would say what we're doing right here is the first thing, like this Zoom account. I think I did Zoom Pro, but you could do Zoom free. Zoom Pro costs eight bucks, maybe a month. I don't know if anybody can spare $8 in the mortgage business right now, but. So this is a Zoom link I sent to Alec. We're on video. We have a little bit of a better camera and light setup, but you don't need that. You can literally put your webcam against with a light behind it. So I would just say that put the light behind your camera is basically the gist of. And that light could be the sun. There's this great thing behind me outside. Just put your shit right next to that window and you're good to go. And then you can get into like, okay, let's get a better camera, let's get some better audio, right? This is a hundred dollar headset on Amazon and it's crystal clear audio. If you listen to my podcast, someone's like, dude, how'd you get your audio? I'm like, I went to Amazon and bought a headset. This is a fucking mic. That's Logitech. Check it out. So it's very easy. And then you can get into the equipment stuff. So I really noticed that people start getting into like. I'm like, don't be the guy, the tennis guy who can't play the game, but he's got the best rackets and the ball machine and he's got all this stuff right?

Those Jordans aren't going to help you dunk if you're not practicing every day. You're so true, dude. People buy these thousand dollar setups and it just sits in the corner because it's way more important to start just filming yourself. And I put out a challenge to some of the people the other day where I was like, here's what I want you to do. I want you to get in your car in the morning, drive for 10 minutes, put the camera on the dash and just record yourself. Stream of consciousness talking. You don't have to post it, doesn't have to go anywhere. But I just need you to look to practice talking to this thing so that eventually when it's on a screen or you're on a, you're on a Zoom or you're with other people, you're not robotic, you're more relaxed and you've done it before. Put the reps in. And to your point, iPhones are killer cameras.

Oh my God, that is. I've replaced a lot of my DSLR videos with just this phone, this iPhone, this new iPhone or whatever. It's not the newest one, but it's the one with the different lenses on the outside is amazing, right? And I've just. The most important thing what I've found is if I shoot something with the GoPro or the DSLR, I have to then get it off the card, put it into the computer, edit it, and then post it. And you'd be shocked if I told you how much shit is on these things that I never got around to doing. I'm sure you, I mean, you wouldn't be shocked actually, because you deal with it, but there's so much stuff you just don't get around to editing. Now you remove all that friction with here because you can post directly from this. So you shoot it and you post it and it's. And then you're just done with the friction. So you know, you've got a phone, you've got a zoom account for, and you've got a mic, a basic mic, that's all you need. And then you can start your content strategy with this content that we're doing now, which I would call pillar content, you could cut your micros from there. So the two things that I asked our audience and also the network of people, which are both real estate and mortgage, and I asked them like, what are the two problems they're facing right now in, you know, what are we in the second half of 2020, heading to 2021. And the most the two things were how do I scale my business recruit? So how do I get help? And then the second thing was, you know, the common thing of like, what's the best way to do content strategy to grow all this, you know, is because they. I think what people are finding now is it's like you analogy earlier, it's snowing outside. We didn't make it snow, but like we're taking credit for these huge snowmen that we're building.

I'M going to take advantage, work hard. Right. Like the fish are swimming, so my poles in the water.

Yeah, so, but that doesn't. But then they're not doing any marketing anymore.

Correct?

They don't need to.

Right, but that's the problem, right, Neil? Everyone's so focused on the now that all the musculature and skillset and strategies they need for the future is not being worked on at all. And so they're just busy cranking away and there's going to be a lot of people whose head comes up and goes, wow, that was a good run. Where's my next deal? And all the skillset they needed to be effective in the future is not being built.

Yeah. So I was just thinking, and you probably having these conversations with your people as well, but where do you want to be at the end of this boom? Do you want to be tired and burnt out and like, yeah, you racked up some cash in the bank, or do you want to be in a better spot going forward? So I've been through a few of these booms and I always said, like, when we get the next one, I'm going to do it different. And then I would do it the same and fuck it all up. This time I'm doing it different. I promise myself I'm doing it. And what I'm doing different is I'm going to invest into things that people aren't investing in and I'm going to build things that people aren't. And so that is the marketing and that is people. Those are the two most important things I found, dude.

And you're going to see it too, Neil, when the water goes out, you're going to see the people that took the extra money, that took the extra blessing and reinvested it into skills and people and platform. And then you're going to see the people who invested into cars and crap and the people that invested in platform and people are going to be way ahead and so well positioned for the future and it's just going to be nuts. It's going to be so evident. So it's just one of those early warnings of like, please save your money, invest in yourself, invest in your platform. You're getting a windfall that most people never get in their careers. Man, what an opportunity to use that to your advantage.

Yeah, I mean, just looking at the last three kind of bull runs in this business, real estate, mortgage, this is by far the, the wildest, the biggest opportunity, I would say it's a generational opportunity we have in this industry for the next, you know, for. We've already been in it, but maybe the next 18 months or so to really, you know, do something big, if you do it right.

Dude, dude. I'll give you a good example. So in 2003, when I really started, there was a refi boom, a mega refi boom. It was on fire. And this was that. This is when subprime companies were around and call centers were making tons and tons and tons of cash. And I was young and naive and I got lucky with good mentors. But I was told to go talk to realtors every day and get cards while there's refi boom was happening. And a lot of my buddies who I met later in their careers, they were in the call center smashing refis. And so they didn't know any better either. And I got lucky and pushed out and went after realtors and turn around two, three years later, after the boom was settling, I had all these relationships with agents because I'd worked so hard building all this relationship with stuff. And I looked back and these guys had no relationship with agents. And it was like they now needed what I had. And I got lucky. It was dumb lucky with good mentorship and good guidance. But that's what's happening right now.

And for the real estate agents in the audience, I think that we talk about referral partners a lot as mortgage originators, but it's the same thing for real estate. I mean, attorneys, CPAs, your database. Are you reaching out to those people? Well, no, I'm so busy right now closing 10 escrows this month. Well, I can tell you this. If there's 5,000 agents in your community and you lean into your database, you're in the very, very small minority of people who are doing that right now because everyone's so busy stacking cash. So if you do that, it's going to pay huge returns. So I just look at this opportunity that we're in right now as a massive way to separate yourself from the competition, because you're going to do something that other people aren't willing to do. It's the same reason why if you go to the gym in the morning like I went this morning, there's three dudes there at 7, 6am Right? Everybody knows what to do, but nobody's doing it right. So it's not really that we're going to share any kind of groundbreaking things. It's just more like, can you get your head around the fact that you have to set aside a little bit of time to do this, and that's what's going to set you up. So one of the things you brought up was cash, like, blowing cash. And people will say I'm a hypocrite because I blow some money on a nice car and stuff. But I. That is after I did all this stuff. And then you can do those things. So people always see the result, but they don't see the 10 years of work that takes you to get to that result. Right. It's like the iceberg thing. You're just seeing the top.

Well, here's another funny anecdote. So I clearly remember 2003 parked out in front of one of the best producing agents in Orange county, one of the top realtors that I wanted to get to know. I wanted to get in their business. I saw they were the whale, and I was like, man, if I could just get that person's business, like, it would catapult my career, all this stuff. And I remember driving up and looking in the open house and having such call, reluctance, fear, insecurity. I have such a big fear of rejection. I was bullied growing up. I have a lot of insecurity in my life. And I literally drove away, bro. I parked the car, I turned it off. I'm trying to psych up, and I'm like, nope. And just pulled away. And so people think, like, well, I could never do what you're doing, so to speak, or get to that level. And I'm like, man, we all face the same stuff. Like, we all face the same stuff. Like, there's no magic confidence that somebody has. There's no magic. Like, I'm comfortable on camera. I was born that way. There's so much of this, like, we're all on this interesting, similar journey. And to your point, if you look at me or you now and what we're doing, you can't. We didn't just start doing this. It's a total journey. And it's crazy, though, how fast that for a year, I look back at a year of what's happened with this compounding of this game on digital, and it's been amazing. But you got to also put in the same kid that was 23 and terrified to drive into that realtor's house. I'm the same person. I'm just almost 40 now with a couple kids. But I still have those issues. I still hate. I still will never cold call loan officers to recruit them ever. I will not do it. I know people are like, you have to make these calls. I'm like, no, it's just not who I am. So I love your comment, dude. I agree. You can't just look at the peak of the iceberg. There's so much underneath that everyone's going through and getting challenged by.

Yeah. And everyone's talking about patience. Patience is not really fun to talk about, but it does take time to build this thing. But the thing is, I had an experience where now this last period of digital accelerates. So if you're impatient, this is great because this will go faster than anything else you've ever done if you just do it because it's like gas on a fire. You're not just talking one to one with that realtor. You're talking one to ten, and then eventually one to 100 and eventually one to a thousand. So as far as that confidence goes, when you were doing this. So people see you now, and I just assume that you are comfortable and you're great with all this stuff. But how was it when you first did it? Like, were you. Were you. Like, was it awkward or did you suck or, like, what's the deal?

It's terrible.

Okay?

It's terrible. Like everybody else, you know, I would lose my train of thought. I'd have to record the video 17 times because I would say something stupid halfway through, you know, And I wasn't. And I wasn't giving myself any grace for that. I was like, this has to be perfect. So I did it 700 times. Now I'm more comfortable going live because I don't have to, like, to your point, Neil, download it, you know, edit it, put it up. It's like, it's done, it's live, it's flushed, it's on the board. But, man, yeah, like, super problematic filming in the beginning. Super insecure filming in the beginning didn't have good audio. You know, several of my, like, stupid 100 videos challenge had terrible audio, and I still just posted it. Like, we're just going live. And so, you know, it's clearly a practice game. The more you practice, the better you get. And you can watch it. You can look back. I mean, you've probably looked back at some of your earlier videos and cringed a little bit. The same way I do. I was like, oh, man, I don't even think that way anymore.

Yeah, you do kind of evolve through the content. And people have said that to me. They've said, dude, great video. I've loved seeing the journey. I've loved seeing how much you improved. And so we're thinking, if I do this and I Suck. Everyone's gonna look down on me. So. A, you don't have much of an audience anyway, so don't worry about it.

That's what I was gonna say, dude. No one cares.

Yeah, there's only, like, you know, beginning. There's only a few people are gonna see. B, the algorithms are so brutal these days that if your content sucks, it's not gonna show it to very many people anyways. Right. Like, if nobody found any value in it, it's just gonna push it down so, you know, your mom and your sister will see it and they'll give you a heart. But as you get going, I found that more people will give you the positive feedback, and then that gives you the confidence, and then the confidence is what makes this whole thing work.

There is a hidden evil in this that I really hate. That happens for people that really step into this place for the first time. And that's when a friend or a family member or even a spouse says, why are you doing this? And they don't really understand it. And they give you that criticism because the random troll. There's no random trolls that come out of a bridge. When you first start and be like, you suck. That happens. That's not real. If you get really popular, it can happen. But in the beginning, what happens is the death is this one person who you love and respect who says, why are you doing this? This isn't you. They kind of try to put you back in the box. And there's a variety of reasons people do this. I'm not demonizing some spouse who said this to somebody, but I'm very familiar with it. I've seen it happen to friends, and they're like. And it's crippling when somebody you love pushes through. Gary Vee talks about all the time, like, your parents or someone shits on you while you're trying to involve yourself. You see the vision of this. You know, where digital's going. You decide to go in, and then somebody's like, why? And you just get kind of crippled. And so I do warn people, like, if you're going to play the game, you got to be ready to go through some adversity, potentially. I'm lucky I didn't have to deal with it, because my wife knows I'm a psychopath, and I'm going to do whatever I want no matter what, because I. That's how I got through bullying. I was just like. And I'm going, like, my way. Screw everybody.

I'm out.

And so with this platform, like, no one can hurt my feelings. My wife can be like, don't do that. I'd be like, sorry, it's going. But that does happen, man. I don't know if you experienced anything personally when you started diving into this full stream.

Yeah, I did. I had some people basically say that thing like, why are you spending so much time with this? It's not ROI positive. There's better use for your time. And then people reaching out within the business community or your. If you're a realtor, your other realtor buddies, or if you're a lender, other lenders, they'll be like, yeah, that guy does videos all the time. Maybe get back to closing some loans. Let's get back to the phones, man. You know, those videos are cool and all, but what are you doing for business? And I'm like, well, I'm doing all this plus my business. So you'll just wait and see. That's why I kept saying, like, wait and see. Cause I had confidence that it was going to work. Cause I had seen it working for other people. So I had confidence in it. But if you're not fully sold on it yet, I can understand those things could definitely derail you. Because nobody's get. You're not getting much in return. It takes a little bit of time for you to get some return. And then people are telling you that this is gonna be. They're shitting on it. And it's sometimes out of their own insecurity because they're not doing it, of course.

I mean, they got layers. But what people forget and they don't connect necessarily is exactly what prospecting agents, in my glory days of going, like, I wasn't getting loans. I wasn't even working on loans. I was walking into open houses. There was no loans there for me. There was no customers there for me. There was a realtor who didn't like me yet. And so you can argue like, well, that was fruitless. Like, you should stop doing that. I'm like, what are you talking about? That's how you build relationship. That's the consistency that builds trust. You translate that to the digital game. And that's the same thing. It's the same principles, like, yes, I'm not getting a recruit or a loan or solving a problem right now while I'm talking to you, Neil. I'm not. I have tons of problems I can go solve right now. What I'm doing is I'm building brand and influence and popularity and connection with people to achieve my goals that I signed up strategically to grow loan deep on the platform. It's like, hello, it's called prospecting. It's called marketing. If you stop this and go focus on loans, that's like the loan officer who stops originating to focus on their pipeline. And they turn around and they go, oh, I have no new loans. And people can't see it. They can't see that this is the same thing.

It's the same exact thing. And if you don't make the commitment, the little investments along the way, you ended up on this roller coaster of like, up and down, up and down, up and down. So I had my experience with my wife where she was telling me kind of like not saying it's that it's a waste of time, but just the, you know, passive aggressive way of saying that. Like, like, yeah. Like what? Yeah, and also like, we're so busy and then you're supposed to be with family and then you're, you're kind of preoccupied with some of the content stuff. Because this is in the beginning, you have to do this kind of in your off time or because you're so busy with your regular work. Right. So why are you changing your hobbies from like Netflix to now content? Right. And so they're like, they feel like they've kind of lost you there. And so I wish I would have had a conversation of like, look, here's why I'm doing this. This is where the market is heading. And if I don't do this, I really feel strongly that my business is going to deteriorate. And so I need help with recruiting, I need help with scaling my business, I need help with making sure I'm viable in a marketplace that's going online. Okay. This is what's going to solve it. And it takes time. So here's why I'm doing this. I never had that conversation. So then, you know, you get the bad feedback. So I would encourage people to tell people up front, like, here's what I'm going to be doing. And I'm going to go through probably a phase where it's going to seem worthless, but trust me, it's going to pay off.

Yep. 1,000%, dude. And sometimes people can't see it still, even after you explain it, but they don't believe it. But, you know, there's a. I just, I look around though. I'm like, there's so much proof that this works.

Yeah. And I'll tell the people listening to the rest right now. So every good thing that's happened to me, this Year. As far as, like, from a recruiting standpoint, from a relationship standpoint, from business standpoint, has happened because of content.

I can say that finding good support, finding new teammates.

I ran ads for years, can't find anybody. Okay. I call people, try and DM them through LinkedIn, no response. Or you get the worst people through these ads or through this kind of outreach. And then also I finally got quality people because it turned inbound. So this kind of brings us into our next thing, which was recruitment. I would say this. I get the recruiting stuff on LinkedIn. I get people reaching out with offers for their product or their service, for all that stuff every day.

It's the most annoying thing.

It's straight spam. I'm like, here's how you should sell and here's how you should recruit on LinkedIn. Stop selling and recruiting. That's how you should do it. Just stop.

I have people that send me messages. They're like, here's this cool net branch opportunity with all this money. And I'm like, did you even look at my title? You just blasted this out. It's so ignorant.

This just happened yesterday. It was this past weekend. So there was other mortgage, somebody similar position as you at a different mortgage company. They came onto LinkedIn and they comment on everybody's stuff. They're leaving comments, genuinely engaging with the community. I thought I posted something and they got a long comment from this individual that has no relation to what's in the post. Oh, like, it doesn't make sense what he commented. And I'm like, oh, shit. So this guy's using a bot or he's having some off, you know, some. Some offshore person va. Just leave comments because it's not him. This doesn't match. And I'm like, oh, my God. So now whatever you think you're doing, you're doing the exact opposite. Because now people like, dude, this guy's a spammy. He's leaving fake stuff. And so like, any hack you have that won't work, right? There's no work. No hack. There's no secret. There's no, like, bot that you can hire to do this shit for you, right? You just have to show people what's going on. So instead of, like, instead of fighting, if I want to show a hundred people why working with me would be awesome, me spamming all them and saying, hey, working here is amazing. Isn't going to work. No, I should just post content that shows what I'm doing and that it could be amazing for you.

It's like the loan officer posting their Yelp reviews. Okay. Glad you got a good Yelp review, bro. Like, I expect five star service, so you're not different than anybody else. Why don't you have like real life footage of what's going on in your life?

Would you ever post one that's not five stars, like one star. It's just people are numb to it, you know, so it's not gonna work. So from a recruiting standpoint, I would say what's worked for me is just to continue showing what you're doing, show success stories, show how you help people, even show some struggle, and just be trying, just be as real as you can. Because that is what people are going to connect with. And then what will happen is inevitably they're going to be at a crossroads in their career. A good person. They're going to be like, look, I'm not happy where I'm at, or I want to make a change because of X, Y or Z. And if you've built that equity with them, they'll reach out to you. Yep.

I mean, until there is a catastrophic technological leap that some mortgage company makes that makes competing against them, not even you can't compete against them anymore. Which has never happened in our industry, really. Except the only small glimpse we have on it in my history was Countrywide. They had some technological advances that pushed them ahead of competitors, allowed them to differentiate in a way that allowed them to win faster. But that hasn't happened in over a decade. And so the reality is, Neil, just like you said, people want to work with people that help them to become better, that they connect with. The environment matters. And people leave companies because of people all the time. And so if you're not showcasing who you are as a leader, who you are as a person, what your branch environment like and what your culture's like, that's like literally putting up a flame in the night. And everyone can see it and be like, wow, what's going on with Neil over there? It's my favorite part about watching your content is I'm like, dude, I can't wait to see another back secret view into Neil's new office. It looks incredible. I can't wait to see. Because you're building something cool and you're proud of it and it's self evident. And so of course people are going to be like, oh, dude, I dig this guy.

Yeah. And that's what it's been like. So what's strange is I'll give everybody kind of like a real life example because everyone Always wants proof these days, right? So I was on one night at home and somebody said something to me about how, Neil, you do a lot of videos. Do you guys close any business? Do you do much business? And so I was like, I get that comment every once in a while. So I just took my phone and just did a quick thing to the phone saying, hey, I get this comment a lot. Yes, we do a lot of business. I do my marketing in addition to my business. But let me just show you guys, because I never do this. Let me just show you what we've closed year to date, because it's really. I haven't even looked at it, and it's pretty shocking to me how much I've been able to accomplish and how awesome our team is. And I just showed my screen with my phone.

I remember that. I remember that.

The next morning, the very next morning, this gal who's working here right now said she opened her Facebook account and my video appeared in the top of the feedback in her feed. And she watched it and she's like, oh, something in there connected with her. Maybe, like, what? My story? Or maybe just the fact that we're getting. We're crushing it. Plus, we're doing marketing. And she DM'd me on the messenger platform for Facebook and said, can we talk? So right now, she came with three people to our organization, and it's a huge partnership that's going to be a great collaboration in the future. What if I didn't post that video that night? Thursday, Thursday night, what if I said, well, I got this thought in my head, but nobody's going to want to watch it and it's probably boring, so I'm not going to post it. The downside was that somebody keeps doing this with their thumb and they skip over it because it didn't apply and it's boring. The upside is massive.

Well, so, Neil, it's so funny. You ask any loan officer, should marketing be part of your business plan? And every loan officer's going to be like, absolutely, I have to market. I got to market to get business. And I'm like, great. So why are you crapping on content producers who are literally just marketing? That's what they're doing. They're marketing. And sure, it's contemporary, and so it has relevance and it has authenticity, and so it lands well and it works. But if I ask you, do you have a marketing plan for 2021? And they're like, yes. And I'm like, well, so do we. This is what Neil's marketing plan is this. I don't know how people can't connect the dots.

Yeah. Or can you hire someone to do this? Can you do this? No, that's a thought I have in my head randomly and then I share it. You cannot hire someone to do that for you. So if you're hiring bots or you're hiring a third party organization to produce content for you, it's not going to work. Because the content only works if people can relate to it, if it's relevant to them. And that's kind of how to come from your head. So you're just going to have to get your head around the fact that you have these thoughts every day. What if you shared a few of them and then after you start sharing them, you can get into the way of, okay, let's share them more effectively. But first let's just get. Let's get into the first step, which is just share it and then do it enough. So now it becomes of. Let's say she opened her phone an hour later.

Yeah.

The algorithm is such that by that time in the morning, there was a bunch of other people who posted. So it's just going to be these random hits. So the only way to connect is just to. Just to get way more at bats. Right? You need a ton of at bats because you're only going to connect every once in a while.

Dude, Again, when I would go out and visit the top agents, I didn't know if they had a title rep at the house or a junior assistant at the house. I got a ton of at bats where I walked in there and there was a title rep. I was like, crap. I was coming to meet, you know, Jimmy John, the best realtor there, and they're not even here. So it's the same thing with your content. You put, you push out a banger. I mean, we've joked about this in the past. Like, you think you have like a killer piece of messaging and you're like, this is gonna crush. And it's just crickets. And then like, what is that? Like, I had a good day today. And everyone's like, yeah, and that piece.

Like rockets out because it's real. So the other ones we produced, we're trying to get something and we appreciate things that maybe other people don't appreciate. That's the thing. Like, I, I would, I would make something really cool. And I'm like, this is, this looks dope. It's going to crush. And it. And it's sad. You're like, dude, I Wasted all this time. I didn't waste time, but I made this. I spent a lot of time on this, and it didn't work. So that's the one thing I've learned through putting out probably thousand pieces of content is that the stuff that. Where you just spoke a real genuine thought does the best and somehow the audience can tell.

Oh, yeah. That's why. And you've done a good job of this. But I'm actually curious for your thoughts on how you'd share it with people that are paying attention now. Overproduced content. Right. Because you made it. There's a distinction between improving the quality of your message through using tools so that your message lands better. Because we can all agree a microphone that sucks and you can't hear you, versus a microphone where you can hear you, your message is going to be received better versus overproduced content that looks so commercialized that people just tune it out. So where's the line there? How do you define it with somebody who's like, I'm just going to hire an agency to produce all this beautiful content and it's going to be scripted and amazing versus I'm going to film on my iPhone. It's going to be raw and authentic. It's an interesting dynamic.

Yeah. So I think I've maybe got a little bit of a crack the code moment of what's going to work as of right now, this day, 2020. And I make a list. Okay. So here's the list. Number one, audio. Number one. If you can't be heard, it's over. And punchy audio hits the viewer and listener in a certain way. That's got it. That has to be number one.

Yep.

Next is the message. Right. And you could say those are in. Those are two of the same thing at this. They share the number one spot, the message. And can you hear it?

No. I think you're right on audio, dude. You have the best message in the world. But if your mic sucks and it's garbled and no one can hear you, it doesn't matter what you're saying.

Yeah. So we've got number one, audio. Number two, the message. And then. Then after that is the video and the production quality. So. And everybody has it the other way around. They put the video quality on this pedestal and it is not. I'm telling you, I can tell you with 100% certainty it will not be the variable of success for your content strategy. It doesn't matter. And even beyond that is if you. If I attempted to make the Video quality worse, the video might perform better. Okay. Because they can relate. Like that's, that could be my shitty fucking Samsung Galaxy phone. I have two phones. I have a Samsung and a thing and I test them both. But that could be my phone that I could have made that on. So then I'm going to watch it.

Yep.

So you know, that's the, that's the key for that. And then the last thing I would say is to the way for this all to work. And you are a great example of this is the number of pieces of content. And that's where people struggle because in the beginning I would spend all week to make like two pieces of content. Now I'm to the point where like I'll do like 12 things in a week, maybe more. 20 things some weeks if I have time. And you're the same way. I see your stuff everywhere. So what would you say about this number of pieces of content and how important is that?

Yeah, I mean you, you hit the point earlier, which is you can spend all this time on this incredible three minute video, edit it, film it 16 times, get it dialed and no one's gonna see, no one could see it at all. And all of a sudden you're like, well that was supposed to make a big impact and no one saw it. That's like putting on your best suit, getting your best presentation ready, walking into the realtor's open house and they're not there. It doesn't matter how good you look, dude, no one's there to talk to. So then it becomes a game of consistency and showing up. And that's where your messaging and what you care about, what you're passionate about, any professional out there, you can repeat your message, you can share it in different vehicles, you can do audio and video and still shots and quotes and you can really share what you're passionate about. And as long as you're authentic and passionate, people aren't going to be like, I hate this person. And if they do hate you enough, that's already self selecting them out of your circle. That's great. You don't want them in your circle anyway. And so just having this like, I call it like the open hand technique, like put your message out there and let go of the expectation. Like let go. It's not going to go viral, it's not going to get picked up on Ellen, she's not going to retweet you. But if you're passionate and you care what you're saying, share it as often as you can. Because that's the game.

Yeah.

You show up once a day, it's like dating, man. You show up once a month, you're not progressing the relationship. If you show up once a month on social media and don't engage, post one video and ghost out, you're not going to have any relationships big time.

This is huge. So if the number one way to find success after you start putting out the right type of content is just getting more at bats and being consistent, then how do you stay consistent? And that seems to be to remove friction from the process of posting content. So the only way to remove friction from posting content is to take quality off the pedestal.

Yep.

So that's number one. And then do use a system. So your system could be you go straight from here, you go live, and then it goes straight out to the platform. You didn't even have a, you know, you didn't have that friction of having to edit it and post it. So you can create long form content and just post the entire thing. People will watch the parts they want to watch, they'll skip through and you'll be surprised. Like people will reach out to you and say, dude, I listened to the whole episode. I'm like, who? Who listened to Alec and Neil for an hour? There's three dudes that did. Yeah, that's great.

Awesome.

I mean, like there may be a hundred people that watch that listened for the first three minutes and then peaced out. That's fine too because we got some, you know, something out of that as well. But there's a few people that will listen to the whole thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah, you just. People have to take themselves less seriously.

Yeah, big time.

And going live is a great experiment because you get to watch people come in and out and that's like speaking on a stage and people are like leaving and coming back in. You know, it's like, it can be really like emotional. But you have to realize, like, you're not that important. Like to them, their day's important. Like maybe they got a phone call from that realtor finally or they have a deal blowing up or their kid fell down, you know, like let go. Like you're not that important. And then when you realize that, it frees you up to be even more like open and out there and sharing because I don't know, I found great freedom in the fact that I'm not very important. I don't know why that worked for me, but it worked for me.

That is huge. I say this all the time. We are not that. Why are we putting so much emphasis on ourselves? I had this thing in real life example, and it was that people are dying, celebrities are dying, public figures are dying. And even in those cases, we give them, I don't know, a couple minutes and then you're back to your day. That's how fast the world is moving. So everything moves at a rapid pace. Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like attention spans have gone down. People's ability to focus on one thing has gone down. So in that same environment, people do watch long form content, but it's on their own terms when they choose to. You can't force them to watch long form content. So what you can do is just hit them and keep posting, keep posting, keep posting. And then on the chance when somebody has a day where they're not slammed or they're at home and they catch the replay of the live and they're sitting on the couch and they have an hour to spend, then they'll consume it. But you won't know unless you have enough of them, enough pieces of content up there. So it's just that number of content or number of pieces of content is huge. And then kind of wrapping up. I just wanted to talk about this because you brought it up earlier. And it's a huge, huge thing I hear in people's reluctance to do any of this stuff, which they know is important. So a lot of people reach out. They're like, okay, Alec, Neal, I agree with you. Content's important. I need to make these investments.

You can start marketing.

I need to start doing it. I'm with you guys, okay? But I'm not doing it. And I've even had this experience with like people in my own family who are way more extroverted than me. I'm the nerd of the family. I'm the introvert. And they are the popular ones. They were the ones with all the friends in high school. I had like one friend, you know, and they, they are the ones who should be beating me in this, but I'm beating them in this. And I wondered what is that thing? So is it that they are so concerned with the quality or like, have you noticed that there's people that are really good extroverted people that are comfortable but they're not putting out any content or they refuse to take the phone and talk to the phone wrong. Why?

Oh, man. I think if we can answer that we should just quit our jobs and go around just giving people the pill and getting them off their ass. Because I think it's become so individualized and personalized. I have a really good friend who's the most charismatic guy in the world. Every time he shows up on video and actually leans in, it crushes because he's just this. Everyone loves this guy, everyone loves this person. And yet he's just got these barriers that bump him every now and then and keep him out of the space from going all in. And I don't know what will trigger it for people. But I do know this for me personally, when I was this just terrified, 23 year old, insecure kid in a Honda Civic with kind of okay hair and a crappy suit with shoulder pads and driving around to meet realtors, I was so terrified and so call reluctant. And the only thing that pushed me through this was I knew in my gut that building relationships with these agents was going to change my life. And it was the way forward. And I have to figure out how to do it it. And so my solve, Neil hysterically, was I stopped selling myself. I would literally just introduce myself. And then, in fact, one time I introduced myself and I didn't say I was a lender. And I got toured around the house like I was a buyer and I was like, well, I can't see that agent ever again. I'm ruining that. But I just stopped selling myself because now there was no sale, there was no rejection. I never asked you for anything, so you can't say no to me. You can't hurt my feelings. And so I kind of hacked my way through it. And of course, over six months, I built relationships. People knew my name. They're like, alec, good to see you, dude. I see you all the time. And it was like, yeah, yeah. And I got to the place where I could actually have a conversation like we're having, where I could say like, dude, why don't you use me Like I know. And then like, oh, I use Billy Joe. I've used him for 20 years. I'm like, okay, cool. I'm around if you need me. And you know, instead of starting with that, I knew right here that this was the way forward. And the same epiphany when I saw this space and I realized I'm not playing. This is. I need to play. Like, I know even though I'm an introvert and people always tease me and you're not an introvert. I'm like, yeah, I am. I'll go speak in front of a thousand people. And then I need a nap. Like, I'm not like pumped. Afterwards, I put all my energy Out. I go to a party and I'm exhausted. My dad goes to a party and he's getting more energy as the night goes on because he's getting fed. And so I just, you know, I know in my heart, like, this is the way forward. And that's why I know you're passionate about it, too. When I see people, I'm like, play. Play the game. Play the game. Because this is where the opportunity is. It's the gold rush, dude. The gold's out there. Go get it, man. Go get it.

Yeah, I will.

I don't know if they have the same burning understanding, if they're not rooted in the foundation, or if they're just fighting their own demons of insecurity that we all have. Because somebody said, you know, why are you doing that? You look stupid, and it hurt them.

Yep. I've yet to find a problem that that communication won't solve. Yeah, right. So if any, like, whatever. If you're watching or listening to this, whatever problems you're facing in your business or life, if you were able to communicate more to more people, it would solve that problem.

Yeah.

And to jump onto what Alec just said and any of the videos that have resulted in sales, so I've posted videos about programs about real estate. I've posted a video of just showing my new house. Somebody reached out and said, where's that house? And then two weeks later, they were looking at the models in the community, and then they bought the house. So just showing houses. But like, in any of these videos, talking about programs, talking about homes, talking about what I'm doing at work, I never have once said, give me a call. I'm your guy. 775555. Never done it one time. Okay, you don't have to do that. That will kill your content. Please cut that shit off the end of the video. You don't have to say it. It goes without saying, like, the business.

Card, where the back of the business card is, like, the greatest compliment I can receive is a referral from my friends and family. Like, stop it.

You beat a dead horse. So they know. I mean, you can educate people, what you do, of course. And make sure. And then further along, once you've had the relationship, the conversation Alec just said is important of like, yeah, why aren't we working together? Like, how do we. How do we do business together after you've already done that?

Maybe it's later. Maybe it's later. Maybe it's not now, which is cool. Maybe it's later.

Yeah.

I mean, again, that open palm of, like, the result is going to be what it's going to be like. You try to force the result to your point, Neil, by, like, hitting him at the end of this thing with a pitch and you're trying to force the result ends up giving you the opposite of what you're trying to achieve.

Yeah, I had this weird thing, and I don't know if the guy was doing this strategy or I'm thinking, because I genuinely think most people are good. I think that it just happened this way. But basically he started engaging with my content. We chatted offline a few times, shared content, just kind of came like buddies online.

Yeah, right, okay.

And then, you know, come to find out the dude runs an insurance agency nationally. And then at some point he's like, dude, I'd love to meet and talk about, like, how we could provide your clients with better service and blah, blah, blah. And I was totally open to the conversation because we had already. We already have the relationship going. Turns out he's actually really good at what he does. I know that because I'd seen 100 pieces of his content and then I was like, yeah, let's fucking talk. Like, it wasn't. There was no friction there. And then, yeah, it was awesome. But, like, everybody's leading with that. They're leading with, hey, I run a national agency. Love to do business with you. Can we jump on a Zoom call?

No.

The answer's always going to be no. And then you'll get a few yeses through some sort of math, but it's just. It's just a failing stretch.

Who wants that yes? That yes is a shitty yes. Yeah, you send out a hundred messages and you get three of those yeses. Those are terrible yeses.

Well, it's somebody who's pissed off with their current vendor or, you know, some. You just catch them at the right place, right time. So there's luck involved in that. Yeah, but I just can't base. I mean, if you're basing a strategy on luck, it's. It's, you know, I mean, luck pays a big part of this stuff, but that's just insane. So if people want to find you, Alec, on all these platforms, is it just your. Your handle is the same on all three?

Yeah, just the Google.

Just put your name in the Google machine.

That's why I laugh. Like, do you have business cards? I'm like, no. Like, no, I don't have a business card. You need help spelling my name? It's with a C, not an X. And then you. Then there. You're good. Like you're good. I have a mission in life to crush every other Alec Hansen on goog.

Take them down.

I'm glad I don't have like a very popular, like normal name.

Yeah, so google Alec Hansen and you'll find a plethora of content. You can Google me. Same thing. You'll find content and videos. I think you'll find videos of Neil and Alec if you google either one of us actually. Because incidentally, YouTube videos rank really high in Google searches. So maybe it's because they own YouTube, but yeah. So thanks so much for doing this, Alec and we will see everybody on the next episode.

Later, guys.

Hey everyone. Thanks so much for listening. Please share this podcast with anybody who may find it useful and if you haven't done so already, hit subscribe on whichever platform you're hearing this on. See you next time.