Tom Ferry - Marketing Strategy for 2020 and Beyond

What's up, guys? Welcome to the Neil Home Podcast. I'm here with Tom Ferry. Thank you so much for doing this, Tom.

Hey, man, thanks. Appreciate it.

Yeah. So, you know, on my audience, everyone's familiar with your content. Just, you know, you guys, you've been doing a ton of stuff for the past several years.

Yes.

And just putting out so much valuable information. So I really appreciate what you do for the real estate and lending community.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for everybody that, I don't know, connect with me. I'd love to. Love to connect with you.

Yes. So based on that, I just want to get right into some of the topics, just because I think everyone's attention span has gone from this to this to this, and people just want to know what can help them. So I've noticed so many in our industry know, they see us, they see you, they see the experts telling them what they need to do, but for some reason, it's like the tiniest fraction take action on any of the digital content and these type of strategies.

Do you know why?

Well, that's why I want to ask you. It can't be just laziness. Is it mindset? Is it burnout? Is it. What is it that's keeping people okay?

So those are all really more effects. If you look at. The effects are like, I'm an alcoholic. Effects are, I don't market myself. Effects are, I'm afraid to make phone calls. I always look at, like, what's the cause? Right? So the cause for a lot of people is lack of awareness, Right. Should I really do this? Lack of goals. Like, really meaningful goals. I don't mean goals like, oh, one day I want to drive a nice car. I mean, like, meaningful goals that, like, you don't need an alarm clock to get out of bed and get going. But the real killers of people's performance is the addiction to the opinions of other people. Like, that's what stops more people from doing, like. Like, every agent knows this. Like, why do you not consistently knock on doors? Because what if the one person that answers says something that potentially could ruin your life in a nanosecond, which we know never actually happens, but that's what stops us, right? We don't put out content because what if I don't get enough hearts and likes and shares, Right? And what if nobody likes my stuff? What if I sound bad? Right? As an example, like, it's all of that that kills people's performance. The other one is the addiction to worry. Right? Like, we as a society, I just Signed on as executive producer for a film with some friends of mine that I'm just. I'm very ambit about, Neil. Like, do you have kids? Okay, so the film is going to be called Anxious Nation, and it's about the crisis we have today amongst young kids, right? And truthfully, young kids into their teens, into their 20s, 30s, 40s, that have a tremendous amount of anxiety. They're so fearful, in a state of worry all the time. They absolutely do nothing and they isolate themselves, right? So there's a whole, you know, a whole film around that, and it's. It starts at like three or four years old, right? And progresses all the way through. So addiction to worry, but a big one for a lot of people, too, is the addiction to the past. Like, so much of my work is acknowledging, like, who am I dealing with? Someone who's in a startup phase of their business. So they're new, right? So they're like, tell me what I gotta do, coach. Or the growth phase, right? Where they're like, okay, how do I maximize the dollars? How do I scale? How do I hire somebody new? How do I outsource? Should I get my own videographer? It's a different set of questions, right? The cash cow, I'm killing it. How do I invest my money? What do I do? Are there ways for me to red my taxes? Right? But the big part of our industry right now, yours and mind fall under a category called fading winners. Now, these are you three years ago, right? Admittedly, in our sidebar conversation, right, where you stopped innovating, you stopped looking at the future technology and saying, I can't do that. I'm not comfortable with that. Like, you know, it's not my thing. Video is not my thing. Voice is my thing. Writing isn't my thing. And I'm like, are people your thing? Like, this is just the new medium, right? But like, but the addiction to the past, the way we've always done it, right? You know, you see, even today, like on Inman Dating, our podcast, Moment here, the article is written about, like, hey, what's the. You know, what's sort of your side of the story on pocket listings? Should they all be inside the mls? Should they not be, right? Blah, blah, blah. Is this just an attack on Compass or is this. And it's. The people that are on the side of everything should be. They're the one. Well, this is how it's always been.

Yes.

Addicted to the past, right? So I look at those things and say, what are they faced with? Is it just the lack of self awareness, lack of ambition, lack of meaningful goals. Or is it one of these addictions that's actually stopping them from performing? And the good news is, like any other addiction, all of these essentially there's a cure for.

Yes.

Right. So that's, I think that's really the body of my work. Like, it comes across like how to do open houses. You know what I mean? How you should geographic farm, how to get more listings. But where I really want to get to people is in all this stuff and having them remove those barriers because then everything is possible.

Yeah. The tactics have become a commodity. Right. Everybody's got the tactics.

Sure.

You can Google it.

Sure. Exactly.

So how to implement, how to actually put this stuff out there.

Well, how to get out of your own damn way.

Yeah, that's what I noticed. Like, we have so much information to share.

Yeah.

But people are just a ghost. I mean, they don't exist. Yeah. And it's sad because they are extremely knowledgeable, trustworthy people on both sides and they are letting the big brands do the talking and they're staying silent.

That's a. I mean, in today's day and age that I would argue that anybody listening, like, you don't sell houses, you sell trust.

Yeah.

You don't. You don't sell loans, you sell trust. Right. And today there are just so many proven ways to scale your trust. Like in the old days, it was hand to hand combat, one at a time, face to face. And today, like I argue with people like, you go on Instagram and you shoot a little video and you talk about, hey, I was in the middle of this real estate transaction. This happened. That happened. Here's how I solved it. Kind of like a case study, basically. Like, what million dollar listing is every freaking week? And you give your example of it and people like, yeah, but I only got like 300 hearts or 300 views. My response is, in the old days, you had to go, hi, Neal, Tom Ferry. Let me tell you a story.

Yes.

Hi, Courtney. Let me tell you, like, you had to do it that way. Now I can scale it through all these platforms. It's a mistake not to be doing it.

Yeah. And people have said to us, like, well, you guys are messing around with these videos. That's a cool hobby. You know, I'm going to get back to the phones and it's not to say that the cold calling doesn't work, but what I've noticed is in today's age, like, people aren't picking up the phone as much unless they Know you. Unless there's some trust there already. So how do we bridge that gap of not being considered spam? You know what I mean?

So here's the thing. Ready? Like, I don't. If you create, and I know we're going to get into this, but if you create enough content, you're never cold calling. You with me. Like you're never, you're never cold calling. Especially when you're talking about like being the hyperlocal expert in your marketplace. There's, there's methods now or software called like GEO fencing, where you could literally say, I'm going to put a, a digital fence around my geographic farm. Now it's expensive, but the price will go down. But it exists today where literally I have clients that are putting a fence around FBO's private aviation locations that are near like there where they do business. It basically means that everybody that affords a private jet. Right. Or is even buying ours every time they get on their phone, they're gonna see his ads. Now once you then reach out to them, you're not cold calling. Cause they're like, oh, you're that. I've seen you. Like every time I get on an airplane, I see you. That's the world we live in today. And then you make phone calls.

Yes.

You with me?

Yep.

And then you make phone calls. It's always. And then you make phone calls. Because if you don't make phone calls, you're not in business.

Correct. Yeah. So the ROI of the content is actually zero. If you don't put in the work afterwards. I would say like when we post the video.

Yeah.

Our work has just begun. Yeah, like that you've just started. Because now you need to distribute that. Now you need to connect with people afterwards.

Yes. And I wouldn't argue like there's a lot of videos that are produced that create tremendous roi. Like one of my clients, Tim Smith, recently sold a, he listed a house for 45 million. We did a over the top video on it called Teach Me how to Duffy. They ended up getting two offers on the property and closed the property at 35 million.

Yeah, I saw that.

Right. Both, both clients were like, yeah, I saw the video, I'd like to see the house.

So that created direct result that would.

That'S about as direct as it gets now. Now obviously they like the product, blah, blah, blah. Like in the old days, like so I've been like super early on YouTube, like 2007 was my first channel. 2009 is when I really like reshaped my Strategy. In the old days, I would tell my clients, look, you're just trying to as much content as possible. So when people search Google's own by, you know, YouTube, owned reverse, Google owns YouTube, like, it's gonna impact the algorithm eventually. So you're not gonna get any ROI, like in 2009, 10, 11, 12, 13. But those of us that did it are now experiencing such massive benefit because of that. It's bananas. Today you can shoot a piece of content and you can get results instantaneously.

Yeah.

Hey, are you curious about the value of your home? Hey, have you looked at Zillow's estimate on your. On your home value recently? Have you had any thoughts of selling in the next, you know, two months, three months, four months? If so, let's have a conversation.

Correct?

Right. You can shoot that video down Instagram and get responses.

Yes, right. I mean, the other night I did that too. I just looked at the phone, said, hey, just want to let you know that rates have been great. They're just starting to creep up. If you guys haven't thought about refinancing, you probably want to check it out now. And you go to sleep, you wake up to DMs, deals in the DM. You know what I mean? There are people, hey, could you check me out? Or hey. And it's not really a sales thing, but you were just more of informing the audience and then they reach out to you.

So I have a client who did this. What would you do with an extra $300 a month? Like, that was the headline. What would you do with an extra $300 a month? So if your loan today is $400,000 and your payment is X, and you're like, but it was the hook of the headline. What would you do with an extra $300 a month? Just like, for a while, like on the real estate side, it was like, is China destroying your dreams of homeownership?

Yeah, right.

Because the tariffs and all that stuff, like reactionary great headlines with a little video, produce killer results big time.

So at the summit, you know, you talked about how our industry loves the boogeyman, right?

Yes.

You know, everybody's scared what's going to happen. And people get into this, like, fearful mindset.

Sure.

So the thing that kind of struck connected with me was you said, undisruptible. How to make yourself undisruptible. Yes. So of those topics that you discussed for, you know, lengthy talk, what's like the one or two most important things that people can do to make themselves Undisruptible.

So it's usually context specific. There's actually eight things and you saw that I took my time going through the eight. And again like for the person watching or listening, you got to identify like, are you in startup mode? Because there's two or three that are really important to someone in startup. Are you in growth? There's two or three that are really important to growth and scaling. There's one or two for the cash cow, seven for the fading winner.

Yeah. And I think that that's what I noticed that is the biggest piece of the audience is the fading 100% or like the coasting complacent person or.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you know what it is? You know, the fading winner usually is it's a 10 plus year veteran in the business who's exceptional with clients. Right. Like nobody could deal doctor like them, like they will do whatever it takes. Their capacity to care is second to none. It's like Mother Teresa and they do loans and they sell real estate. But where they completely miss Mark is on marketing and lead generation in a modern world. Right. And that's why they fall into that fading winner category. So in answer to your question, I think it all starts from the very first one where I said to you, look, this is your business. Right. And that sounds so cliche. Cause we've all been like, we've all heard a million talks on run it like a business. But what I said to people was, look, this is your business. This is more than just some recognition or some deals and dollars. This is what about your family? Like, can you stop doing this? Like, can you go back to your kids tonight and say, hey, you know what, mom, mom or dad, whoever I am in this, in this deal, Like I'm just not into it right now. So, so basically I'm going to tell you no. For every holiday coming up, I'm going to tell you no, we can't afford it. No, we can't do this. No, we can't. And I try and get them to like emotionally associate to that. Like, like, you know, you're, it's not that you're not making your phone calls. What you're saying is my phone calls are harder than me telling my kids you're not worth it.

Yeah.

Because that's what they're really doing. You with me?

Yes.

Then when you look at like the boogeyman in our industry, I'm very mindful to say I've been around for a long time. Like let's, let's just go through, like, the current industry stuff, right? So back in the 80s, ReMax shows up and says 100% commission. And everybody on the residential real estate broker side said, they're the devil, right? Then they weren't. They just became another brand and another option, right? But the industry loves to attack something that's new, something that's different, right? Someone that has a better voice. And really all it is is in many cases, those companies weren't paying attention to growing trends. They became too big to adjust to, like, what was the cultural norm at the time? What really mattered to people. So it was ReMax. And then if you really pay attention, you remember, like, when hfs, which we now know as realogy, went and bought everybody, right? And suddenly they became the boogeyman, because suddenly they owned everything, right? And the truth was, a lot of those broker owners were saying, well, why didn't they buy me? I want that big fat check. Then Keller Williams, right? And you just, you go right on Keller Williams. Now Compass, then Redfin, then Zillow, then this. The reality is, look, business is innovation and marketing. That's all it is. It's innovation and marketing. Now for us, we're not in manufacturing, so it's not build stuff, sell stuff. You with me? I acknowledge that if you're in the manufacturing business, but in our world, it's innovation. And so the second you stop innovating, you become irrelevant to your potential buyers and sellers and worse, your own customers. So when I was saying, hey, this is your business, it was really like a flag in the ground. Like, you gotta get real, because it's either gonna get really tough for you or it's gonna get really fun for you. And if it's really tough, it means you're in a fixed mindset. You're not interested in innovation. You're angry about the things that are happening. You'd rather spend your time being angry than figuring something out. My joke is like, hey, guys, do me a favor, go to your phone, go to Facebook, find the live button, right? And now they all laugh, right? But, like, I'm like, if you want to live in this world today, you got to hit the live button. Because otherwise, Facebook, the algorithm is horrible for just text or photos. It only is about live. But that's today, and that's only been around for three years. What's it going to be next? When that happens? Are you going to say, this is my business? I don't care how the playing field is shifting. I. I'm going to find my way in. It Because I'm committed to serving my clients.

Yes.

I'm committed to helping more people, because that's where my heart is. So that was kind of the point.

Yeah. And I think once people get their head around, this is actually more effective.

Yeah.

And this is actually scalable.

Yes.

The old ways are becoming, you know, very difficult to reach people.

Yeah. Less scalable.

Yeah. And, you know, like, you know, I think of this to the innovation and this pressure is a gift because it's forcing people like myself, it's forcing these people to step up.

You know what it is, guys? It's the industry. Your clients and the competition are simply taking a spotlight and they're putting it right on your face. And what it does, it shows all your blemishes, your weaknesses, your blots, your wrinkles, et cetera. Metaphorically, in your business. But here's the deal. It's doing it to everybody, right? It's. It. You did it to somebody else in your marketplace. You. You just did it to everybody in your marketplace. When you went hard on content creation, as you went from 8. 8 loans a month to 30 or 40 loans a month, that means someone else isn't doing more loans.

Correct.

You with me?

Yeah. Because the overall pie didn't grow.

Exactly. So somebody right now is going, well, it's just not fair because, you know, Neil creates all this content. He wants to help all these agents, you know.

Yes.

Right. That's literally what they say. Right. So this is your business. Do something about it.

And that is. You just bring up a really good point. So the pie isn't growing? No.

Heck no.

So people are taking. So what I think has happened is you're starting to see the effects of this finally. You know, you could have put your head in the sand for a while, but now what happens is you're losing a deal or two here. You're losing opportunity for sure. You're losing a few at bats every month. And because of that, like, if you only have eight or ten deals, when I lose four, I'm. I'm screwed.

Yeah.

I mean, so. Yeah, but If I have 30 or 40 and I lose a couple to Zillow or I lose a couple to Redfin, it doesn't matter because you increase the top of your funnel.

Yeah. Where's most of your audience?

They're in Reno. In Reno, Las Vegas and Northern California.

Okay, so, so basically, you are in the pathway of destruction.

Correct.

You with me? You are in the pathway of ibuyer. Not just Zillow. Everybody. Right. Everybody's playing in this space, and there's like 49 companies popping up every 14 days. Because everybody's realized this is probably a pretty good idea, right? And ease and convenience over profit is what we're seeing. So I coach a lot of clients down in the Phoenix marketplace as an example, one of the early ibuyer locations. And look, I'm not dogging these companies. I mean, I don't go to American Airlines and say at the counter, hey, I'd like to fly someplace. I'm going to give you my email address. Could you follow up and send me some messages and maybe we can sort this out? Yes, because that was real estate lead generation 101 for the last two decades. Right now it is push a button, magic happens. So our clients, the ones that are really savvy, that are in those buy box price points, three bedroom, two bath, rents for 1500 dollars a month, that kind of stuff, what they're discovering is if they're not putting out in their marketing today. Ready? I give you four offers when you meet with me, including a traditional list price. Then here's what you know, here's what offer PAV will do. Here's what you know. Bing, bing, bing, open door, Zillow.

You address it right up front.

And you have to market it that way if you're in the path of destruction. And I say those words in a loving but direct way. If you think, if you have the audacity to say, my clients won't do that, you're done. You're done.

Well, we've just seen in Las Vegas where, you know, went from zero people choosing Zillow Direct, what is it called? Instant offer, whatever that is. Right. So to 500 people choosing it, 100%, you know, and then you have off, you have offer pad, offer pad, open door. Yeah.

And 89 more right behind it. But here's, here's the key distinction. I'm not saying it's the end of the world. So our clients are saying, hey, Neil, here's like, here's, here's what Zillow is going to offer you. Here's what Offer Path is going to give you. And here's what you know, Opendoor is going to give you. And here's my traditional retail price. Right. In one case study, one of my clients, he goes on a lot of listing appointments. 29% of his sellers said, I'll take one of those prices instead.

Yes, you with me?

Then he has the right to either take it to one of those companies and do a deal with them. Direct, which that's available, right. Or he says, great, at that price, I'll buy it. Yeah, you with me? But the mistake that we make, my friends, and this is so I'm diverting a little bit, but answering the question sort of indirectly, what the mistake that I see over and over again, 31 years of doing this is you've got your secret sauce. You've got that thing that you do at the presentation that wins you the business. Well, the bummer is, as you mentioned earlier, you're not going on and up at bats anymore because everyone else has figured out whatever the secret sauce is. Tell the customer.

Yes.

Market it. Make it. Your degree of separation. I've been around for a long time. There's, you know, we buy ugly houses. If the home doesn't sell in 90 days, I buy it. Right. We're seeing television and radio ads coming back right now as a way to get those customers to react and respond. And they are. The point is, whatever is your best hook, you need to get it into your marketing. Don't wait. Because if you're not getting the at bats and you're not even getting the chance. You with me? That's scary. And that's, that's what's happening in a lot of these marketplaces now.

Yeah. And you know what happens is like the customer will, I think they would prefer to deal with the local expert. One thousand ten.

Right. Thousand percent. They're inviting the local expert out to say what, what Zillow gonna do? What's you know, what's the ibuyer price?

And but in the absence of that, they are picking the brands because that's the only thing that they see, you know, so if, if those brands dominate the places where the consumer's attention is YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, you know, and just all things digital. Yeah, yeah. And you're just seeing it over and over and over. Then they're just who you're going to think of, you know, and then you click that button because you didn't see anything else from anybody else locally, you know, and I think it's, it's like people aren't, people are scared of them, but you have to be a choice as well. Just like you're saying.

Right? Yeah. So at the summit I actually talked about this. I said, hey guys, I'm going to reveal for the first time like what my secret sauce was. And I'm sharing because obviously I'm pushing hard and I haven't since 2009 to get my clients to scale trust through doing video Right? And, you know, we've seen a massive evolution. And it's not like the mortgage space where it's like you and three others, right? And there's 600,000 loan officers. I mean, there's, you know, in the real estate space, there's definitely a movement now that it's catching fire. Now it's like it's not just, Are you creating content? Do you have your own videographer? Do you do high quality? Do you do micro moments? Like, you know what I mean? Are you, like, you really paying attention? The thing I said, everybody was, the whole game is trust. So how do you scale trust? Like, that's the question. How do you scale trust? And what I figured out early on was it was frequency, first and foremost, creates familiarity. So the more frequently I'm in front of you, the more you familiar, the more familiar you become. So think about it like in the old days. Like my parents watched Johnny Carson, right? And maybe I watched Jay Leno, right? Or whatever. Like somebody watches some bombastic knucklehead on any news channel you can think of. Whatever political way you follow, there's a guy or gal that you're like, whatever she says it's worth, right? Right? You wanna know why? Frequency, Frequency, frequency, frequency. You see her over and over and over and over. And even when she or he calls it wrong, you're like, I'm gonna give her a pass. Cause you can't be right all the time. Frequency creates familiarity. Familiarity plus authenticity and relevancy. That's the secret sauce. Authenticity is. You shoot the video in your car with your hat on coming out of the gym, and you're like, just wanna say to you guys how grateful I am. Or, hey, I was in the gym person. And this is what they said. And I thought it was really insightful and I wanted to share it with you. Do you know what I mean?

Yes.

And. And you're like. You answer all your questions on Instagram stories. And my answer was, of course, all you have to do is read them because there's a misspelling in every single one of you.

Need a translator.

Sometimes I can't spell your if my life depended on it. Or I just have fat thumbs. So it's like, Y I O R U R something, right? Like, Courtney's on my team and she's laughing that. That formula frequency, right? Just like in direct mail, just like in your geographic farms. Creates familiarity. You're now on the consideration set. That's the key. You're now on the consideration because I've seen Neil so many times. Ready? But then Neil's real. Like, his kids are sometimes in the videos. And, like, I see him on the soccer field. Like, you become more human. You with me. Versus these celebrities that we think can do nothing wrong.

You with me.

But then that last one is relevancy. Is this person bringing me something of value, whether it's today or in the future. And remember, real estate consumers only move every 10 years. Right. What do you do with tremendous confidence, by the way, once every 10 years? Let me give you the answer. Nothing. Nothing. But now they go to their phone or they go, hey, Siri, what's the. I'm gonna turn Siri off before it starts responding. But, like, like, that's the world today. So whoever creates the most content follows that pattern. And the thing that I want you to stress right now is it's not too late. It's not too late. Start immediately. Start.

Yeah, I think I started in 2018. It was wide open. Right. So now 2019, there's plenty of time, and you touched on something really important there. And I think that's the little bit of a danger when you show the video and it's an overproduced music video, and people think, like, that's a great piece of content. I could never do that. You don't need to do that if you don't want to. I mean, that's a great piece in your. In your chest of content, for sure. But the consistency is what I've noticed works the best because it's just that it's. It's one after another.

Yes.

You know, there's going to be a ton of competitors in your. In everybody's marketplace that are going to put out some content.

Yep.

But who's going to do 100 pieces of content?

Bingo.

Right. And that's the one who's going to.

Play the long game.

Correct.

So let's. Okay, let's move away from content just for a second. Can we just talk about something that is really it? Like, I look at, like, the secret sauce. Like, if I could, like, wave a magic wand over all of our clients, yours and mine, it would be. It's not just content creation, but it's actually responding. It's actually engaging. Like, I see a lot of people that just, like, they just think they're the shit. You know what I mean? Like, they're just too cool for school. And, like, so they shoot these. You know, here's me in front of a jet that I don't own, and I'm not gonna fly on Right. You know what I mean? But like there was one there and I wanted to take a photo. Like not that kind of stuff. Right. Like the real authentic you, if you have a large capacity for care, which clearly you do, and I know I do like that. That is my superpower is you go back and you respond and you comment and you engage with your community. That's where you build the relationships. That's where you get the listing in 10 years. Because you answered a question today, not for them, but for their mother in law who's like seven states over. And you know, because you put on all this content, you're like, hey, what do you recommend for ABC? 1, 2, 3. And you're like, look, I would recommend ABC, but let me do a little research, let me get back to you. And you actually follow up with an DM them and say, hey, make sure you're aware of abc. And by the way, here's two good agents in that marketplace that I've done business with. Right. And like that didn't. And you didn't even ask for a referral fee, Right. You just did it because that's the right thing to do. One of our great clients said it best at our summit on one of the breakout sessions on Instagram. She said, so picture this. You create a piece of content, right? And you're like, you know, hey, here I have my open house, or hey, this would be with my family, or it's Halloween or like what, you know, whatever it is. And then like seven people go, oh my God, cute outfit. Or wow, that's totally great. Oh, I'm so happy for you. Looks like you're having fun. So basically they were, they, they did this to you, right? Say to me, oh my God, you look great.

Oh my God, you look great. Yeah. You're ghosting me. Yeah.

And that's you. Basically you just walked out of the frame, right? Like they said, oh my God, how's it going? And you're like, I'm too busy for you.

Yeah. I would argue not replying to comments is like somebody texting you that. And just exactly. You would never do that in any other area. People don't understand that.

I think people don't. And then they don't prioritize it. Like, you know, people say to me, well, you know, like, you know, do you have somebody that helps you do all that? So I'm like, read all my answers. Like, you know, it's bananas. Like I can't spell anything and I just do heart emojis. And right but at least I do something. But when they ask me a big question, I give them a very meaningful, thoughtful answer. And even sometimes I'll just send them a private message and say, hey, that question was a little too intimate. I thought I'd share it with you, you know, privately, like. Or, hey, where you at? How can I help you? With me. Go deeper. Helping people with zero intention of ever doing business. And you'll do more business than you could possibly imagine.

That is the unlock.

Yeah, it's massive. It's massive. But nobody wants to do it because everybody wants, you know, they want thin thighs in 30 days or less without diet and exercise.

Yes.

Doesn't work.

Yeah. And your schedule is insane, right?

Yeah.

Like, you're finding time to do this. So it's about what, Like. Yeah, everybody could say, I don't have time. That is the worst excuse I hear from everybody is like, I don't have time for that.

Yeah.

Oh, you know, I don't.

You. You. You may choose to not make time for that.

Yes.

I don't know. Listen, I told you, like, hey, I have a dentist appointment at 2 o'. Clock. So I posted, hey, got a question? Because I'm gonna sit there for an hour getting drilled on. And like, you know, my dentist, who follows me on social and has asked me questions, he's gonna laugh because I'm gonna sit there and do an hour with the Q and A. And then, you know, in between breaks and, you know, meetings and everything else, I'll just stop, check, answer questions, engage. Like, these are my people. These are my friends. Right. These are my clients. These are people that, like, I'm, like, I have this, like, desire to help them move forward if they're willing to ask me a question or make a comment. My mom raised me. Right. I'll just say that.

Yeah. And that human element, that relatability, for me, I've noticed just on the ground, you know, in this. On the front line. That has been the close.

Yeah.

So it's. The information's there.

Yeah.

The. The Q and A's are there.

Yeah.

And then the post with the kids, the post about my meal this morning.

Yeah.

Starts a conversation that leads to the business in two weeks or in two months or whatever.

You're doing keto also. I do. Right.

But they had to have known you prior to that, and they had to know that you were credible prior to that. Then they see the relatable thing, and it's like, that closes.

Frequency, familiarity, authenticity, relevancy.

Yeah. So people think like, this is too far fetched. Like it actually works. It will work tomorrow if you do it, you know, 100%. People just don't get that.

Yeah, it may not work tomorrow. You may have to do it for a week or a month, but that's okay. My client, Christoph Chu, big shout out to him. He started shooting videos with me in 2009 when I launched my second channel.

Yeah, I saw my bombbomb rehumanized. Right.

He went four years before he got any business and he was doing a video a week on YouTube. Now back then we did like flip video cameras and no editing, total ghetto style. But then the first call he got, he basically ended up doing three deals from it, like $22 million in volume.

Holy shit.

He called me and said, okay, it works. Yeah, now he gets basically, I don't know, 3, 4 come list me calls a month. And with his price point in Beverly Hills, it's bananas.

Yes. And yeah, and by saying it'll work tomorrow, I mean it will connect with people tomorrow. I mean I turn to a business result. Yes, but you know, that's the, that's the story.

You'll bring value and connect with people.

Correct. So shifting gears a little bit according to nar, like we noticed this came out recently. Like consumers opinion of real estate agents and mortgage people is near an all time or at an all time low, would you agree? Like have you seen the same studies?

I mean, you know, of course I look at all that stuff and it's not a shocker.

Yeah, but how do we change that narrative? Or how do you, how does an individual change that narrative within their marketplace?

So if you have a personality and you deliver and scale value the way we're talking about right now with Neil and I, like that's one approach to do it. The other thing is, look, I mean I know a lot of attorneys and some are really good people and some people like you want to shoot like, sorry, I just say that on a podcast. Like I don't actually want to shoot them. In case you're wondering. Please don't send me a letter. But you know what I mean, there's good and bad in everything. Like if everybody was perfect, then it would be horrible. There's eight bazillion reviews written about agents on like Zillow or Yelp or Google, et cetera. And like the vast majority of them are positive. But you know, there's like 10 million sides every year in the US and we're not getting 10 million new reviews. You with me on this? Like every Single year. So look, how do you do something about it? I think you sweep in front of your own doorstep first. You take care of your own database first. You make sure you have everybody's email, cell phone, that you're in regular communication with the people that you know like and trust and vice versa. You do that. Then you go to your geographic farm. Then it's how you show up at all your open houses. Then it's your speed to lead with all your online lead generation. It's playing the long form with all your nurturing campaigns. Control the controllables.

Yes.

You with me? Because I can't. You know somebody in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who doesn't like real estate coaches? Like, who cares?

Yeah.

You with me?

That person.

Anyways. And there's like four bazillion real estate agents in California. I don't work with all of them. Here's the other thing. You ready? If people don't hate you, if people don't hate on you, if you don't have any negative comments, you're not doing enough. You're not on anybody's radar. Like, be like. I actually shared this with a buddy of mine recently. We're talking about on a podcast. A friend of mine, Chris said, I know bands. He's a very famous film guy, right? Like, makes a lot of films. And he says that literally. Like, he'll create a. Like a music video for a band. And they have like 30 fake accounts where they go on there. The band and their team go on there and say, stupidest song ever. Total sellouts. These guys are lame. And you know what it does? It fires up the algorithm. Hating actually now is important in my marketing strategy.

That is good.

Yes. Please hate on some of my comment. It would mean the world to me.

Yeah, you always see that one in the whole thread of the guy, you know?

Yes. Well, no. What happens is your base goes. No, that's bs. Neil's the man. We love you. Right. But all that really does is it makes the algorithm really sing.

Yes.

Like, that's the game.

So before you try and save the world, save your own world.

Clean in front of your own door, clean your own room, is what I say to my boys. Then clean your house. Right? Then clean your street. Like, you always start with what you can control.

Correct. In that, like, with so much focus on putting out content, Getting the customer, reaching the client.

Yeah.

Getting the deal. Right. What about customer experience? Like, what. What can you say to the people? Like, how important is that? And how big will that. How big of a Role would that play going forward? Because that's a big an issue that people are just kind of like they're trolling, ignoring, because they're so focused on just getting the client. Once they got them, it's like, get them to the finish line any way possible. Yeah. And you imagine this guy getting to the finish line abused, you know, beaten up, bruised, and then there's no thought put into the future business. I feel like a lot of people, industry are just so focused on that, making that sale and moving on.

Yeah. So it's funny. So a buddy of mine, Tiffany Bova, is. She worked for Salesforce or still works with Salesforce. She was one of the Gartner, like, rockstar consultants for like a decade and a half. Like, she's a brilliant business strategist. Like, brilliant. And in her book Growth iq, she talks a lot about customer experience everybody's been talking about. The book that I tell everybody to read is. Go back and read the book. The Experience Economy. Right, The Experience Economy. And I don't know the author's name. I apologize. If you're watching this book for me, written, I want to say, like, maybe late 90s, early 2000s, basically, here's what they said, like a commodity. Something like a real estate transaction, a loan, like it or not. Right? Because there's so many. Right. You know, it's a commodity. Right? Even if. Yeah. It's a product. Houses are a product. But he said, think about it like this. Like, why would somebody walk into Starbucks and pay $5.45 when it really only cost them, like, you know, really 14 cents if you did it at your house? And the answer was the experience, Right. Like some people would. If you're on the east coast, you go to Dunkin Donuts, right? It's the same thing. Right. But you're gonna pay a little bit less. But you're going there because you want the experience. Going into Starbucks made you feel cooler. Walking around with that cup made cooler. You're right? Standing out in front of their cafe, you were like, yeah, you know, like, you're. You're hot because you're drinking a triple makalaka, wakalula, whatever, right? And, like, I like coffee, but I personally think Starbucks coffee is horrible, right? I want, like, if I'm gonna drink it, I want jet fuel. You know what I mean?

Yes.

But the deal is this. What they tapped into was, here's this commodity called coffee that forever we were seeing ads like, you know, Roger never had a second cup of coffee. You know, like, remember that Folgers, I think it was. Right now it's like, how do I get the Starbucks gold card? How do I go to the Starbucks experience room and take my coffee drinking to the next level? They just created a better experience. So I would tell you, read that book, then go back and read the Disney way. I'm gonna go old school with you. Read the book the Disney way, where basically they map out like, hey, this is how E ticket rides began. This is what we were trying to figure out. This is why Monday schools began. Like, there was a time when Disneyland was closed on Monday. Did you know that? And then they're like, hey, how can we create more revenue? Well, what if we did something just for kids, just for like schools and because they were trying to fill a need. You with me. So long answer is read more. And then tactically, what I will tell you is if you put yourself in the position of the buyer or the seller, I just closed, literally just got a text like, hey, we just closed on a deal, right? The agents that represented me, clients of ours, right, they kept me so informed along the way that even though in a 30 day window, the deal felt like it was gonna die 16 times with me, a typical real estate transaction, right? Escrow, but they kept me so informed and engaged that at moments like when my wife and I would say, screw it, we don't have to buy this, like, who cares? Like, just move on. Yeah, it was like, it was like they were always right there saying, I got your back. Don't worry, we're gonna get over the finish line. We're gonna celebrate together. Two days ago, I'm doing my, you know, having my anniversary bottle of champagne shows up, you know, because loan docs were also showing up to where I was on vacation for two days, right? So, like, these little touch points make such a great experience. I would argue that the vast majority of people watching this. That's not your issue. Your issue is we meet, we fall in love, we have sex, we raise a family, and that's all in 45 days. You with me?

Yes.

And then I never see from you again. I never hear from you again. I would argue that everybody should be thinking, in 2020, what is my experience economy plan for all of my database, right, for the next 18 months because the world is attacking them here with low price crazy offers. And if you don't do something to keep that experience alive, it's over. Throw more holiday parties, throw more events. Not everybody's going to show up. It doesn't matter. Find your tribe and then activate your tribe every single month. Right. Like that's to me, like it's, it's the other end of the transaction. Transaction where I see so many people failing, especially on the mortgage side.

Yes.

Not you, Neil, but you know what I mean. Because it's so transactional on the mortgage side. Right. We're on the housing side. It's like emotional and I'm buying it. Oh my God. And then we're moving and that's hard. And you know what I mean? So obviously if you're an agent, if you have a moving truck, that helps. If you have all the handyman that that person would need. Like all that stuff that you would close on at the kitchen table, you need to putting in your marketing and you need to operationalize all that stuff. So it's not like, hey, what should we do for Tom and Kathy? But it's 17 days before the closing, right?

Yes.

We always get to that moment and contingencies are being removed, yada yada. And 17 cupcakes show up at my office and it says this is my favorite time of the transaction. The final 17 days where behind the scenes I fight like mad to close out this transaction and try not and bother you with the 7 million tiny details that are causing me to pull my hair out. I'm going to have one of these. Here's 17 for you. Here's to a successful closing. And it goes out every single time you're 17 days out.

That's awesome.

Operationalize the experience. Don't leave it a chance.

Yeah. And that's why you get the Repeat business correct.

100%. It's a part of it. It's a part of it.

And you know, like the, the content also falls into that too because you can also stay in touch with these people through that.

For sure.

After the transaction closes, those people become network. Part of your tribe, your network line.

Yeah.

And one thing I noticed people ignore or they just like, you know, is that it's. It's years out. Right. And just one thing I implemented that I started seeing results from is just a year out. Sending out a gift basket for sure. One year anniversary. Right.

And versus the everyone sends them something when they first close.

Yeah.

Or their house is surrounded by boxes and they don't care.

And the mortgage side, it's really bad. I think like probably 98% never speak to the client again. It is bad, you know, because you close. And many times on the mortgage side it is a rough go. It's turbulent. You know, you're asking for things that people don't want to give you 100%, it's not fun. Like, you know, you guys on the real estate side get the good parts of many times emotional parts.

I do, I do. And the insurance companies and I mean, it's. It's all. Listen, every transaction is hard and every escrow is a good escrow.

Yes.

Because every closing is a great closing at every price point.

Yeah. But every mortgage is not a smooth mortgage process. Right. It's a.

It's. How about no mortgage is a smooth.

Well, once. Once a while you get lucky. Right. But for the most part, it is.

Yeah.

It is a rough process and there's going to be some bumps, right?

Yeah. Yes.

But this experience thing I've noticed on the mortgage side is really important just because that is going to be why somebody thinks of this whole transaction. So I think we're in it together. Real estate agent, lender. And if the lender did a shitty job, it kind of stains the whole circle 100%, you know, so, you know, I think it's like, who you work with matters on both sides.

Oh, okay. You're talking that 1,000%. Right. Like, it's. It's your team from your attorney. Right. If you're on the East Coast. Right. Like closing your transactions. Your mortgage partner. Right. We don't have vendors. I hate that word.

Yeah.

He's my vendor. I'm like, what? He's my partner. Like, we do a lot of business together. We help each other. Right. So it's surrounding yourself with that team, like, that's the whole game. Right. Because it makes, you know, this is a hard business on your own. You with me. And you can't close a single transaction on your own. You need all those people like the other experiences. What are you doing as the agent sitting in the middle in your mind of the transaction to really nurture all these relationships. So when you're in a fox. And you will be in a foxhole soon. Right. Like we all are, that, you know, Neil's got your back. Right. You know that, you know, Sarah, your title reps got your back. That, you know the TC is gonna go out of the way because, you know, you've been there for Billy and you sent him a note on his birthday and his kid's birthday. Like, it's. How do you nurture those relationships? Because, hello, that's the whole game.

Correct. And not to mention, it's more fun to play in a team anyway.

Right? For sure.

For sure. And kind of like wrapping up the last Kind of thing that I noticed that you focus on a lot and is these Monday mindset things, videos, you know, and the mindset and, you know, I get a lot of pushback sometimes of people saying that's just fluff and it's a distraction and this and that. But it is, it is very.

That's very banker, right?

Yeah, yeah. Like, especially on our side on the industry, they're like, they would never talk.

We don't want to be motivated.

Yes. They would never even, like, it's never even a topic at, at many of the conferences. Right. It's all about the wrong topics. Many times we're talking about the wrong things because people don't even necessarily consider this. So why do you focus so much on mindset? And why is that something that you've kind of pioneered a lot in the industry?

I think it's a way for me to honor my mentors, the men and women that impacted my life. A lot of what I'm doing when I'm in that moment about to shoot a mindset Monday. Tristan, who's right here, who helps me all the time with this, by the way.

The Times Square ones were awesome. I really like that one.

Yeah, right. And then we were just recently in Palm Desert, so, like, that's the thing. Like, it's wherever we are. Like, let's just shoot some content, right? So for me, like Neil, I'm channeling Bill Mitchell, who was, you know, up until the time he passed away, was probably my longest standing mentor. Or Mike Vance or Teresa Jabbour. Like, these just these men and women that have touched me in a way that, that they gave me a gift through a metaphor, a story, an example, and I'm just honoring them by passing that on. And look, whether it's Monday, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday, whatever day, like, everybody could use a little push now and then. So, you know, we put out five original pieces of content every single week. And I actually just like kind of challenged my team that I would now want to go to like, 15 pieces of original content every single week. And we put out obviously more than five, but like five original pieces and then some micro pieces, but I want to go to like 15 and then the micro with me. Like, I want to really push because the algorithms are changing, right? You got to really pay attention to, you know, what's hot, what's not, and how do you best sort of work the platform that you're on. But at the end of the day, it's, look, my mentors are always there for me when I Would call and say, hey, you know what, man? I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Or just, you know, like, Kath and I just argued about something or this deal just went sideways. And, you know, back then I could just pick up the phone and call them. Right. You know, rotary. Or push. Right. Or text. So this is just my way of hopefully being that helpful voice of reason for, you know, my tribe.

Yes. And I think it definitely works for those, especially Monday. It seems to hit them at the right spot.

Sure.

Monday, 9am when you see that.

Right in the week. Yeah.

And I think that you're right, the consistency of that, because I'm seeing it every day, every time you do it. So it's, you know, a lot of times it's beating the algorithm by just being consistent this time every week, you know, and putting that out there.

I will tell you, YouTube, we were at like 30,000 subscribers, and we grew in, basically call it a year and a half, maybe two years to 330,000 subscribers. And the only difference was putting out one piece of content every day.

That's awesome.

Like, that was it. Like that was that. That was the hack that all of a sudden now, like, you know, YouTube, and we're, you know, I think we have the largest base sort of amongst my competitors. Right. Just means it's because we just use what we knew, like put out content every single day. That makes YouTube happy. Right. Boom.

Great, man. So, guys out there, if you are in the mortgage space, real estate space, which is pretty much all of the audience, I think you've definitely heard some great tactics today from Tom. These are things that, like, I didn't even think about. So I think there's incredible value in this episode. And just to realize, like, all this competition is actually a gift. You can use it to take that next step. I had zero content a year ago, and now I have a ton of content. It seems like a big task to start from nothing. But don't let that fear of starting at zero keep you from doing it, because once you get going, it's actually pretty easy to do, and I think you'll have fun with it. So thanks so much for doing this, Tom.

Yeah, appreciate it, Neil. Thanks so much. And hey, guys, have an awesome finish to 2019, assuming that's when this is coming out. And hey, 2020 is going to be an extreme, extraordinary year. Right? You got to be focused on your clients and focused on growth because there's going to be so much opportunity and interest rates are going to go to 2 wow.

Interesting prediction.

Just saying. Let me know when it happens.

Thanks, Tom.

Thanks Neil. Appreciate it.

Hey everyone, thanks so much for listening. Please share this podcast with anybody who may find it useful, and if you haven't done so already, hit subscribe on whichever platform you're hearing this on. See you next time.