#106 Beyond Time Chamber | Nico De Paoli

Nico, you're a man of excellence. High standards. Things have changed a lot since we last recorded. You built the Bali Time Chamber. At that time, it was a guess, something that you took a chance on. A concept, a place that doesn't serve alcohol, that people are going to travel to and train. It seemed like a crazy idea at the time. It doesn't seem quite as crazy. You've got some more crazy ideas in your mind at the moment. But I want to start with the biggest change that most men in their twenties aren't really thinking about, and that's fatherhood. Talk to me a little bit about how it's been. Been a father so far.

Yeah, but, I mean, it's pretty new for me because my daughter is just seven months now, so it's been, I think, the most exciting experience I've ever lived. I think we were pretty. I think every father would say the same. But, yeah, first, thanks to you for Time Chamber, for everything. Because, like, we already said, maybe in previous podcasts, like, we had this whole idea also together. It wasn't me alone. It was. I was thinking about things, but you, like, kind of pushed me and I gave me the confidence to just say, yeah, let's try it out. So we, like, met.

Like, same with fatherhood or.

In fatherhood. I was already thinking about it, but I think you were a part of it also. I had many inspiration, but for sure, like, just, I would say, like, maybe five years ago, I was just thinking myself, okay, like, just never gonna have children. I think it's not worth it. Just in this mindset or stupid, like, new society mindset where, like, you think it's not a good enough world for them, and then you don't. You feel like it's just gonna be troubles and you're gonna lose your freedom and everything, and it's just completely stupid. But you need to meet other people that have some children. And you see they're not just. Just crazy. They're not just removing all your freedom and everything. And when you see all the people doing this, like, you just traveling around the world, three children, if you're like, okay, like, it's actually not really impossible, and it looks pretty fun. So. So then you just look more into it and then you get excited and then feel like, okay, yeah, I think this is going to be the. Yeah, the most exciting thing in the world. And I feel the only thing that really pushed me to do it is the feedback of fathers, like, more older people, like 40, 50, 60, that always had this insight of, like, if they knew they would have it younger. So when a lot of people that inspired me, they say this, I feel like, okay, maybe if, even If I. Not 100, sure or anything, I should start now and then and we'll see. I don't think there's something you can really regret anything.

So many men, when I talk, I always ask men. Now when I speak to someone new on a call and I speak to a lot of new people and I asked them, are you planning on a family? And a lot of them in their 30s are like, yeah, but not right now. You know, I need to do this, I need to do that. I need to be organized. What do you think about, like, the organizational aspect of it? Because you were just launching Bali Time Chamber, like, it wasn't super sure what was going to go on. Like that thing of I need to be in an economically strong position before I make this step. Like, well, what do you think about that now?

I just feel it's a bit stupid to think like this because it's mainly the opposite. I think it's going to be children that's going to make the things worth it and they're going to make you take another path. So maybe you kind of losing your time doing things that, okay, I need to do this, I need to have this business and everything. And if you had your children, maybe earlier you would just realize that maybe that's not where you want to go. Maybe there's other things that's more important. So. So the sooner you have them, I feel like the sooner you can take the right path. And even for the position, we. We just look at just the two, three generation restaurant behind us. Like, they were like many people, my families, they were just really, really poor. And they all had like 10, 11, 12 children. That was like this in part of my family. And it didn't. They never thought about just, oh, we need to have a better financial system and everything to have children. It's like the children were a part of this. They supporting everything. You have more people to work, more people to trust. So I think it's the opposite. It's like it's coming maybe from the family instead of coming from something from outside.

The. The woman can also be part of that. Yeah, you don't really need any money until you have a woman. It's kind of funny. And maybe some people will be triggered by that as well. But yeah, like the, the decision to be with a woman and move towards the family. How did that impact your business mind?

Yeah, even for the, for the Children. I think it's also a big part if you don't really have the wife, it's hard to maybe imagine children because you need to imagine like, like the mother of your children you want. That's maybe for me it was a big motivation is when you find someone really good that you trust, you feel like okay now I'm, I'm really in good position to do this. But in all aspects, yeah, for me like the big insights I had these past years was like family is the, the most important things. Even if sometimes we think all the priorities, we don't choose our family. Like we have other friends, everything. I feel like yeah, the wife, the children and all the people around is really important. That's what makes you do everything. For me if I didn't meet my wife I think I would just still train, still train, just have a, like a small business and just thinking about you know, just having better handstand push ups or things like this and just, just thinking about this and I feel like having a good wife that you can trust just make you think way bigger than just being strong physically. But you want to be strong in many other aspects of your life. And that's where I think he gets the life starts. I feel like the beginning is fun, you like rebuild yourself but we need to go to the next step to really enjoy. So yeah, if not it gets a bit boring. You just do the same thing all the time.

How do you think about training now?

Yeah, it's way, way different from a few years ago. It's definitely not my first priority. It's still something that's in me and I've trained for so long. I love it. I still enjoy every time I train but it's just not the same aspect that we discussed a lot about this. But it's not the same approach. You don't really want to chase numbers anymore. You chase more like the capabilities and the things that you feel like are more useful in your life. You know it's like grip strength thing like this like they, they just like makes more and more sense and like the endurance like to be able to just repeat something over the, the years like not thinking about, I can do like this amount of volume in five minutes but like how can I do something really, really good in the whole day and not feel the day after and keep doing this like walking like we did, cutting, cutting trees, things like this and feel good. Not having back pain, not having knee pain. A big part is about health I think. Yeah, it's more about health. Than performance, even if both are linked.

Yeah. So you want to keep those. See, you still want the one arm chin up and the handstand push up that you worked hard for. But now you don't have to work hard for them and you're not as motivated to get like 10 one arm chin ups and 20 handstand push ups.

Yeah.

Is it like.

Yeah, that's what like helped me to get out a bit of this because I had this, I had like five one arm chin ups, both arms and when I got them I was like, okay, so the next step is 10, like keep going. And, and when I thought about this I felt like not excited at all. I was just like, okay, I'm going to do more. When I'm ship. It's going to take a lot of energy because it's not going to be easy to go from 5 to 10. It's going to be a lot of commitment, sacrifice. And I feel like I'm not going to get like big rewards. Not really exciting. And when I think more about now what I'm doing, just like maintaining, I still can do one arm chin up cold, like just doing things. I feel capable, I feel good. But maybe there's other like more like mobility aspects and make sure I can handle like a big volume of work in my daily life and not get injured. I think there's something that motivates me more and just like thinking, taking more time for outside things like just not businesses but only family time, everything. I think that's something that fuels me like way more than before we were talking about.

I growing up hated doing work in the yard. My mother would ask for help with moving trees and plants and mulch like we have there, the piles of tree that we put through the machine. I never wanted to do that work when she asked me. Well, I've really enjoyed doing it here with you. Like we had some big days of it and it was fun. How's your experience of like that physical work compared to the gym now? Like when you've got a lot of stuff to do, you've bought a property here and there's, there's a lot of work to do.

Yeah. But I feel like that was the main goal from the beginning. It was like having capable body to express it in the daily life.

Yeah.

And you get so focused on everything you're doing, like to, you know, you have to improve your strength. So you take like movements like shoulder press, bench press, something like this. But then you, you forget about the main thing. That's like Being capable and not having restricted range of motion and things like this. And so for me, that was something I was working for for a long time. And maybe I got a bit lost also sometime too much in the numbers and everything where like the most important is this, is the capabilities and doing this, having the property and be. Be able to put the things that I worked on for a few years into. Into practice, like, make them work. Like when we did, like we put all the branches in the truck and we're jumping on it, and it's really hard to get the balance. So you put your hands everywhere. Like you have. You have to jump, you have to come back. You have to do it over and over. Sometimes you have to press really big things. You have to lift stones. And it's just so much fun. I think the fact that we worked on this, it makes this work really fun because we can test ourselves. It's. It's just way more fun than a barbell than. Than you feel like, oh, everything I work for makes sense now. You know, it's like you lifting things, you feel like it doesn't hurt. I know a lot of people, when they would lift this, they would have back pain. They will maybe use a machine or something, and I can just do it myself. And it's. It's so cool. And we can laugh about this. And I feel that this, what makes sense now. I think that's the. The path I want to take is be able to do more things like this.

That stone you moved near the. The fire pit, when you told me that you moved that on your own, there's like these, These stones that are like this wide, this high, this deep. There's no. It doesn't look like there's any chance one person could move it, but apparently they. You're able to slide it a bit too.

Yeah, that's the thing. Like, you don't need to lift it like a deadlift and carry it, but you can find ways. And I could like, just put a rope on the truck and just pull it and it would be easy, but it's less fun. And it's like, okay, like, I just want to see if I can really move it. And then you take a few time and if you fail, it's like, okay, that's pretty heavy. But if I take it here maybe, and then just give everything. You don't know the weights, but just give everything. You see, it's moving. It motivates you. And then you, when you do it, you had a really good pump. Like, you had, like, your. Your hands feels really strong, your back is pumped. Also, like, you. You feel good after this. So that's something I really enjoy.

Yeah, the. The evolution of the training system, it's kind of the opposite of the dense stuff that we both really loved for a period of time. And I've done a lot of work where it's really simple and you do the same thing over and over. The yard work is kind of the opposite, where you're never really hitting the same movement pattern too much, and you're. You're doing a lot of different stuff. Also been learning from the babies with their movement. We've been talking a lot, just, like, the stages that they're up to and the new things that they've done. Even in this six weeks here together, the babies have changed so much. Like, think about how much the average adult changes in six weeks and then how much. Like, my boy wasn't crawling. He was kind of doing an army crawl. Now he's crawling, he's walking. He can walk with holding one hand. Like, how much we can change in six weeks is astonishing. When you look at it through the lens of the baby, has it impacted you? I see you got some new equipment and things out there. Like, how's the baby movement journey impacted the way you think about training for yourself?

Yeah, I really like the. What you said with the Swiss ball. Like, you know, just doing this with ball to learn to. To stand up. Like. Like, sometimes this is a really cool thing because you. You really understand way deeper. And when I. I look at her also trying to stand. Now I'm just looking at her and thinking, okay, myself, if I want. If I was trying to stand up, like on a Swiss ball or something really hard, and I feel like, okay, I would be a bit scared also. Like, I would be pretty. It would be, like, pretty big thing. It would be intense. And then I think you feel way more what they. They experience because, you know, it's a bit scary. And sometimes you were, like, kind of impressed by the bravery they have sometimes, because you feel like they just going for it. And even if sometimes they fall, they know they can. They can fall. They. They cry a bit, but they. They do it again and they go and say, okay, I don't know if I would do the same with this. Useful. Yeah, so. So, yeah, it inspires a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like going to the trampoline park and testing yourself and, you know, like, maybe it's. This is gonna hurt. Like, maybe I'm gonna smash myself.

Like, They're.

They're living this multiple times a day, all through the day, like, and sometimes it's hard floors and.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it motivates a lot. Like, when I see this, I feel like, okay, maybe I should try to do something else. So I should try to, you know, like, train differently. And. But like you said, it's. We had this dense approach. You know, when it's really simple, you just do the same thing. So it's really cool to have a foundation. But that's the idea I have in mind. Now, I don't know exactly if it's really the right path to just do foundation and then express. So if there is a way to directly build your foundation through a system that's not really structured. I don't know if it's possible or not. But for sure, now the structure helps a lot because you can just repeat the movements because that's what they do. Also, children, like, they just repeat. Like, when they just learn to sit, they would just like, cross it, cross it, cross. They would just do exactly the same. But it's more by feeling like they don't have a structure. But for us, because it's something different, having the structure helps to, like, build something pretty strong. And then when you have. When you can really express it and that's where you can have more improvisation. I think it's also like the Edo Portal approach a bit. Like, you never really think about improvisation directly. Just, okay, you don't do anything, but you don't know anything. But just go and improvise. It's more like you build many steps, and when you reach a certain level, then you can improvise, then you can feel the thing. I think same for musician and everything. You learn the basics. When you're really good with the piano and everything, then you can let it go a bit, maybe out of the rules, find your way to do stuff. I think the same for training. You build something pretty strong. And when you have many things you can do, then you can play. But it's after. I think it's more.

Yeah.

Now we can do this when we just have a five, ten minutes to train. We kind of know what to do. We know the limits. We know how to not do too much. We know what's enough.

Yeah.

And it's hard to explain this. If a beginner, you explain that, okay, you have to do this rest, but keep one in reserve. And then you. It's just really hard to understand.

Yeah. At the same time, there's this thing going on in My mind of, like, I wasted a lot of time over the years thinking about, I need to, I need to squat more. You know, when I was deadlifting 210 kilos, I was like, I have to be deadlifting 220, you know, and then I would injure myself sometimes, like just going so hard at these. And I wonder now, like, now what's important to me is to be more like my, my baby boy and more like my 7 year old. I want to be able to just jump off stuff, jump out of the tree and not be scared. Like, I want to be able to climb the tree and not feel like an old man, that I value that much more. And I'm thinking more about what it's going to be like to be a grandfather. Like I'm, I'm really, for whatever reason, it's just the last month or few months, I've started to think a lot of what's it going to be like to be a grandfather and what do I want to be able to do? And for sure it's going to be fun to put a bar on my back, but, but if I can stand on the Swiss ball, if I can dance, if I can, like, I want to do things that are interactive with them and so they really understand what I'm doing when I'm balancing on something, even with the handstands, doing a forward roll. And when we juggle together, like this is tangible and it's interactive where when I go and go to the gym and go with the barbell, they're like, all right, that's gone. Like, you know, like it doesn't mean much to. Yeah, they see me fit and I get that example. But children want to be, they want to be played with, they want to be interacted with and they want fun. They, they're really wired for joy. And that's like a huge learning that I've had this year is, you know, watching the baby and thinking, this baby comes with the default programming. It hasn't been conditioned by cartoons or anything. And this, this guy knows how to have fun. Like, this guy knows how to love life. And everybody says it when they, you know, when they, when they seeing babies and people love holding babies and because they, I think we have that sense of like, this is the default programming of what a person can be. And some will say, you know, that it's, it's not our true nature or, but for me, this is like an insight into our true nature. And if that's our true nature and that's what he loves to do. Then what's it going? You know, maybe I should be learning from him. And that's what, that's what I'm exploring. And so far, I think it's. I think it's beautiful. I still want to play with the barber. I want to play with kettlebells, But I don't think I can go back to that mentality of, like, smashing myself for the sake of discipline or for the sake of suffering or like that Goggins type mentality. My boy doesn't have that, like, he trains hard every day. He's, you know, it's. It's instinctive for him. He's nine months old. He trains hard every day like Lily does. Three, four hours. Some risks, some falls, some reps. Always enough that the next day they can go at it again. I feel like there's such a powerful lesson in that that I don't. I don't know if anyone's training like this. Like, I don't know if this is really being thought about. And so maybe, hopefully this, this podcast will get some people thinking of, like, is it about suffering? You know, there's so many messages out there about suffering. But when you look at your baby, like, does it look like life is about suffering to you?

Yeah, I think that's a big thing you. You brought also that it made me think a lot about this, like, joy approach on everything. And for sure, like, you get this when you watch the babies because it's not like they have fun and they not doing anything. It's like they have fun, but they do maybe way more than you. They walking so much like they do a lot. And for sure, like, it makes sense. Like, even when I do things, when we, when we cutting trees and we just, we have fun, it's something cool to do. We know at the end of the, when we put all the branches, we're going to lift the truck and everything's going to fall down. It's going to be fun. We kind of. We want to put the things inside. And I feel like, is it not supposed to be like this also for, for training? Like, I think it's. It's more like maybe training needs to be. Needs to be more connected to our life and not this outside thing where now every. People, they just train, they have their job, so they're not moving, so they have to dedicate a few hours to go to the gym, drive, do the thing, come back. I think everything is just not connected at all. Like, your training is a different part of your life. And Then you do a job that maybe that doesn't also doesn't like or something and you're not doing things that work. So then when you come back home, you have a hobby, you have something that you, you can have joy and you can go on holiday. And I think everything is just separated. All the aspects of life are in different boxes and I feel like it's really weird. It should be everything in the same, in the same box. It should be just our life and we, we don't need to go training because we have an active lifestyle. Because you can always move, you can work on your. Instead of paying someone to do it, you learn to do it. You get more independent, you get more freedom, you move. You don't need to go to the gym. It's like every problems are getting solved by going this path. A bit like just becoming a bit more independent and just having a new perspective like this new perspective of joy and just connected to what life is meant for maybe.

And are you feeling like this with upgrading your place here? You've, you've done, you've taken toilets out since I've been here. You put new, new bathroom stuff in, you've done new kitchens, you've upgraded the, the garage, put a new floor in. Is, is that stuff that you, is that what you want to be doing or is that like saving you money from getting someone else in?

Yeah, it's not really about, I think saving money because have the chance to be okay with, with money now. So it's fine. It's more something I really wanted to experience and I think it's been really good so far. Like it helped me because that's something I had in mind and when I have something in mind, if I'm not doing it, I have some regrets. I don't know. Okay, what about if I did it, maybe it would be different. So I knew something was really important for me even as a father, to just learn to build stuff, just use my hands. I think it's a really useful skill to know as a father and understand things a bit more. I think when you understand how your house works, how the garden is working, how the flowers grow, how everything works around you, it just makes you way more conscious about how everything works. You feel more capable, you feel less anxious, I think because you know how things work. Like if you're in a room and many things are working around you and you don't have any idea of how everything is working for sure you're going to feel some anxiety and just a bit scared but when you understand things and when you actually do them, you understand that they're not that complicated. And this feeling of understanding things and doing things your own, I think that's what I want more in my life, just more control, know I can do all these things. So it was more like a philosophical approach on the walking, you know, like I want to do like, yeah, I know I want to know how to change the toilet, change the bathroom, change everything in my house. I know how the heating works, how the electrical works. And then I feel good, I feel okay. I just know how things work and I know how to explain them. If there is a problem, I know how to fix them. I think it's really good feeling that now we, we don't have like now the people, the only solutions they have is okay, I need, just need to work more so I get more money so I have people to solve my stuff. But it's always the same thing. Everything works with money. So every time you have to work more, you have to work more. And then at the end you just also the prices increase, everything technology increase. So you're always going to have to spend more money. So it's just like a never ending chasing thing. So I feel like going a bit backward and just trying to do things yourself helps, helps a lot with this.

How far do you want to take it with self sufficiency and we've been playing with ideas like where do you want to go?

Yeah, it's been a challenging thought we have about living without, without things that you cannot control, which if you cannot produce electricity yourself, maybe try not using electricity. If you cannot produce your gas, maybe don't, don't use gas. And it's quite challenging because you, you feel like it's just a few generations before they did it. The, they had candles in the, and they didn't have light, they didn't have switch. Everything was working pretty fine for them. They had a good life also they had a good product, they were eating pretty good. Why is it so scary to go there? So I don't know exactly what I'm going to do. I don't think I'm gonna do this tomorrow and just leave somewhere else or something. But it's something I'm thinking a lot and that I think I would go, go down this path. So I think it can get more serious in the next few years. We'll see. I just want to feel like I control things. The more you master things, the more you understand things around you, the more it feels really good to Just be independent. When you know nothing around you can break and you cannot fix it. And you don't rely on any energy that you cannot produce yourself. You don't even need money. Like you don't even need to. You say, like I need to work to pay the. To pay what? Like, if you have the land and you have all the energy, you don't need electricity, you don't need gas. Like that's a new life after. I think it's a new perspective. I think you have ideas that you would never have if you. If you wasn't in this situation. So I think it's worth trying the experiment just to, Just to see. I want to see my. What are going to be my thoughts, how I'm going to feel when I'm going to be in a house where I don't need anything. I don't even need money. I don't need to use money. That would be pretty epic.

Yeah. This experience of knowing there's nothing to fear from the perspective of food, from the perspective of shelter. I think the people who lived in these villages around here, they. I think they grew up like that. At some times in history, at some times there was war and there was concern of the people from over the hill, but it seems like there were times where they knew that the, the land was going to produce, that everybody had animals and that there wasn't much to fear. When you go to, we just went to Paris, we went to Louvre, we went to the opera. You don't build those things in a wartime. You don't build these absolutely magnificent buildings that are just so far beyond anything that's being built today. And you see sculpture after sculpture commemorating and celebrating the people who. This guy was a musician, this guy's a painter, this guy was an architect. And they built beautiful things that the people at that time valued so highly. And you're just thinking about it like, who were these people? What did they value? And where, where has that culture gone? Because there's no statues anymore of the person who built the most beautiful thing. And our music today is not beautiful. The modern music that everyone is. Listen. Listening to, that's, that's around. Objectively, it's, it's not. Doesn't do emotionally for you what, you know, that music was, that was in that opera hall. And that people had to sacrifice, or at least not sacrifice, but embrace the joy of practicing for four hours a day, for 10, 20 years, be this, be the student of someone else to make something so beautiful that it moves other people, that they wanted to be in this huge theater. And I feel like we've gone so far away. Like, the evidence is really clear there. If you look at the Louvre, at the different sculptures that were in the gardens of the palaces, they valued beauty. And you might say, well, yeah, that was only a certain part of society. But I think the people in the villages also valued beauty. I think it was part of the same kingdom. And maybe not everybody had the same size house, but everyone can have a beautiful mind and a beautiful heart. And the churches in these villages as well tell a story of beauty. And I don't, I don't think it's, it's, it's not so far away to, to experience that again. But as a 40 year old and seen the birth of the Internet and, and the, you know, the start of the smartphones, all of this stuff happened in my 20s and you know, late teens, 20s, 30s, like it's kind of at the start for you. It's not making life better. The more we dive into this stuff and I love, I love online business, I love connecting with people around the world, but the more we dive into the Internet, it's not making people better, it's not making life better, it's not making mental health better. So I know some people are going to be listening to you just thinking like, this guy's lost his, like he's, he wants to, you know, like no electricity, no money. That's impossible. But look at the evidence of what those people lived like in the 1700s, in the 1600s. And they want us to think they were all throwing their buckets of, into the street and it was terrible. But there's looks like there's significant evidence. Like you look at the architecture, you go to Gadan School just in Danzig, it's one of those old port cities and it's just so beautiful. And the buildings are like 1500 and something. Just look at the evidence. Like these people, they valued something. We can't build. We don't build these beautiful buildings anymore.

Yeah, I think the big thought is about the technology, like how we think every technology we have, we have more technology. So we're moving forward so we can do things quicker, so we have more things. So we feel like we're just moving forward. But is it actually moving forward? That's the big thing I'm thinking about is like, are you not losing way more things on the way than you are winning things? And I think that might be the case. Like, I think you, you losing things that are way more valuable for all the things that for sure you win, you win quicker. When you turn your washing machine, when you take your dishwasher, you go quicker. But are you not losing other things that way more valuable, like way more time, like way more freedom, your family, peace, less anxiety. All these things in your mind. Are you not like getting completely crazy just to get faster and it's just not. Not going anywhere. That's the big thing I'm thinking now. And I feel like same like we did. Sometimes I would take the chainsaw to cut the trees because it's just faster. We're moving forward the same. Like we do more in one day. So for sure it's cool, we do more. But same time every time I take the chainsaw makes a lot of noise. We cannot speak together. Sometimes it can break. It can cost some money. I have to put fuel, I have to use oil, I have to maintain it. It's. It's also a time to. To maintenance. And at the end of the day when we did just with the. The hand. The hand one, it was working fine. We. We were like for sure a bit, a bit slower. But wasn't it like way better? And for me it was just a way better experience. And at the end, are you cutting the trees and everything to just get the house the quicker or you just experiencing life and you want to have fun on the way also and just learn things? I just feel like I'm learning more when I do things slowly like this. Even if it is frustrating because we are used to just go fast. If it's really productive, I can do this and this also. It's good. But now I feel like it's the opposite. I feel like sometimes if I go slower, if we do a bit the old way and I know my hand so I can just sharpen it, I can use it forever, not gonna break, not need to put fuel. Like I can use it all day. I feel better, I feel more independent. And I think that's the what people were experiencing before. Because even you see like there is big architecture, there is big beautiful things, but it's still stone. You can still do it. You know, it's not like the buildings we have now. If you want to make a house now, how many materials are for insulation and everything that you don't have that you have to buy. Is it possible to make one yourself? But before you could make most of the things yourself. Even if you're not rich or anything, you could slowly. It takes time. Maybe you're just going to build one house in your whole life, but you're going to take time. It's going to be a really meaningful life that is going to be like how it's going to mean something and you may be going to get way more things on the way that you think you, you losing time or something like this. I think it's, it's completely new perspective and it's a bit scary also at.

The same time and encourages you to think more multi generationally as well. If you're going to dedicate your life to sculpture or to building a house from stone, you're not thinking, this is just for me. You're thinking this is for my children, for my grandchildren. I went to the butcher here in the town next door and the butcher was actually drunk and he was telling lots of jokes and he's, he, he's had a child that went to Australia and so he's telling us this and that. I think the reason he was drunk, there was a sadness in him. And he was seven generations of butchers who'd been in that town being the butchers, seven generations. And he was getting towards probably past retirement age. And his children, one was a lawyer, one was a teacher. I don't remember what the other one was. Yeah, but they've chosen a different path and the villagers are dying all around, all around Europe. And it's because of this rush of like, oh, everything is convenient in the cities. If I go and be in this little box and for sure, you know that, that generational perspective that had that butcher for seven generations and they, they know the meat and they know the community and they provide and they play their role. This for sure is, is being lost to a, to a system where, okay, everything is there in the supermarket and they can even deliver it to your door. But when you have no connection to the food anymore.

Yeah, yeah, you can see also with the land. That's what we said. Like most of the people, they sell their land. It's like family land they had in many generations. But just like now, the, the old men die and like nobody wants to do anything because there is work. You have to live there to maintain everything. And I feel like it's a shame because that's the real value. It's like this land, all this peace, like. But people, they just don't want to go there anymore because maybe the wi fi is not that strong and, and sometimes you smell a bit because there's some cows or some. And I feel like you, you just saw, you don't want this. So you go in the city so you can get a job, so you can get money. But at the end, in your mind, if you think about, okay, what do I, what am I gonna do if I have all this money and I'm doing all these things? Maybe you're gonna chase a lifetime.

You buy the best grass fed beef.

Yeah, exactly.

Could have had in the first place on your father's land.

And same. And you want a house in the countryside so you can take some rest and, and you're actually coming back to this life.

Yeah.

And I think it's just because you, it's like being brainwashed. Like you don't really know what you want anymore. You think you, you're chasing the right thing, but I think the good thing is just in front of your nose and it's just like the really simple things. And to see like these things is, yeah, it's really sad. I think like the butcher is just seeing that, okay, nobody wants this anymore. Feel a bit lonely. Everyone is leaving is the end. It's not great. Maybe it's only alcohol at that point. After.

Yeah. So what comes next? If someone's listening to this, I know there's a lot of men who want to be on land. And we started this villages thing. Part of the reason Bali Time chamber seemed like I really wanted to push the idea of like, maybe men can come here and get better. Because I've been helping, I mean, working with men and mentoring men my whole life in professional sports and then privately. But we already started this, that project in Vanuatu and I was telling you about, oh, this is what we're trying to do in Vanuatu on this little island. And, and I had already made an investment in Montenegro. Just before I arrived there, I was like, you know, this place is already cool like those other ones. We still got so much work to do. You so many men have this thought and, and a lot of guys would be listening to this going, yeah, yeah, but I need to pay the bills. Like, how am I going to do this? How am I going to get it? What I love about you is that you have the idea and then six months later, 12 months later, you've done it. You know, you did it with online coaching, online training. You built your own app. And it was a really cool app. We had lots of people from the network, you know, lots, lots of people jumped in and loved that app. And then. But you got to a point where you were like, yeah, I've done that. It's done. And you had a cool setup. Even when I first started talking to you, you had a pretty cool setup in France. And then one day you're just like, yeah, just, I'm selling everything, I'm going to Australia. I was like, oh, wow. Like you, you know, that looked like you put a lot of effort into setting that thing up. So you have these things where you build it, you experience it, and then you move to the next thing. How do you do that? Because that's what men listening to this were fired up about. Yeah, like I want what you're saying. I just don't know how to get it.

But I think, yeah, if I changed a lot of project around the after the years is because every time you're doing something on the way, if you really like want to achieve something, you learn something on the way. And usually when you learn something, then you have a new perspective, you understand a bit more. So you adjust the path. Like, you're not going to say, okay, I'm going to keep doing this because I said I started doing this. So now I'm not changing anymore. Even if you understand that maybe it's not exactly the right direction, maybe I can just take a slight shift and go somewhere even better and even better and even better. And. And for me it's been this all the time with the online thing, with the time chamber, just trying to find the thing that really works. And I feel like the thing that connect everything is always this, like looking for this freedom, being independent and just having more control, being less scared, having more like good products, eating good, like going back to a simple life. So for this, for the people who wants to do something like this, and they like this discussion, they like the perspective of, okay, I would like to go back to this. Also the land and quiet. I think a lot of people are tired of cities and everything. They see that everything is crazy in there. Like nothing makes any sense, but you have to payable everything, like you said. But if you really think about it, there is an easy way out. Like is not that complicated to go. It's more the other direction. When you want to go to the city and you get the job and you need to pay the bills, you need to have the money, it's more complicated. But going back, that's pretty easy. You can really rent a place to start really cheap in really nature just try to get some chicken. But the thing is, it's scary. You see, I just said, take some chicken. I think most of the people, I don't know how to do this. It's like it's so easy now. You have chatgpt. You have like all these things like you can just ask some questions like, okay, what do I do to take to keep chickens alive and how do I do this? And for sure it's not going to be perfect, but you're going to learn on the way. The only thing it takes is just some balls at the beginning. Some just like, okay, I'm going to try it out, I'm going to do it. And for sure, when you get out of your apartment where you don't know how anything works and it's first time you have an water problem in your house, something, it's going to be scary a bit. It's going to be some problems, but that's where the fun is going to be after. That's where everything is going to be cool and that's where you're going to have more ideas. That's what you're going to learn. And the fact that you're not going to learn something is going to make you want to learn more and then you're going to feel more excited and then the journey begins, I think. But it just starts by maybe just. There's many solutions, but just move somewhere. Try to just use less electricity. We did it here. Like we have electricity, we have gas, we have everything. But when it's dark we switch off the electricity. We just put the candles. We like the feeling. It's like a good vibes. The light is better for your eyes, you sleep better after. It's fun. Just start with this. Maybe just use less light, see how you feel. Maybe it's gonna make you feel like you want more and just step by step you can do. But going this way is way easier than going the, the other way. Like, like a, a farmer that want to make money in Dubai. That's going to be way, way more difficult than the opposite.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's true. All of mankind has been able to work out the, the countryside living thing. The city thing is, is pretty new and pretty abstract and objectively it's not working that well now. Yeah, so you, you built, you built your little, you set up in France and then you built an app, you built your Instagram account that was growing really fast for a while and then you just stopped building it because you weren't doing the app anymore. And you, you completely put that stuff on a side or you know, to, to build a Bali time chamber. Now you've got to the like you got to a point with Bali time chamber, you're not living there anymore. You've started a new project. You move like moving from one thing to the next. Do you. Do you get scared about making these, these next jumps? Because I think that's the biggest thing if we're going to try. And, you know, like, how do you deal with the thing of, like, okay, I just put all this effort into building this thing. I missed also that you made a really nice gym house in, in Bali as well. Like, you put a massive effort into it. It's beautiful in Changu. And then it's like, yeah, I'm selling it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good question, actually, because I didn't really think about this, but I don't really feel any. Like, I don't feel scared or like I'm not really looking at what I can lose, but I'm looking at what I can win. It's like I just feel so excited about what I can win. When I change projects, it's like, okay, yeah, everything is working good. Maybe this project is making good money, but it's just like we're having money and then we don't have really the lifestyle we want. Maybe I want more project. I want a different climate. I want to be able to have animals or other things. Then I'm only thinking about this. I'm thinking, okay, okay, if I get animals, I can do this. I can do this. And I'm not really thinking about, I don't know, maybe it wasn't worth it. So maybe I did this for nothing. No, it's like it's because I did this that now I can think like I think and now I can think different. And if I just stay stuck in this position just because I did it, then I'm not moving anymore. It's like I'm just staying in the same place. So, yeah, I don't know if it's just my, my way of thinking, but for me, it's pretty easy to just change project just because I'm looking at the things that I'm going to win. I'm looking at the thing. I'm excited about this. And that's why it needs to make a lot of sense for you. Because I'm not going to go on a project just to. For something fun or it needs to be really meaningful and something. It's a lot of thoughts. Something I think I'm doing. Way I was thinking, like, why am I doing these things that people feel like, oh, that's really complicated. How did you do? And I think one part is I'm thinking a lot about it. I think the hours of thinking about these projects, I think. I think way more than everyone on things. Sometimes, I don't know, like all day long I'm gonna think about. You say when we're here, I'm just thinking about how I can do a house with the cooking. I don't know how you say like cuisine Yarabo in France, the. The firewood, but just you can cook on it and you can like put the hot water also. You can do a lot of stuff with it.

Yeah, the old English word is like a larder. But I don't know if they always heat. I think they usually heat the. Some of the houses in England that I stayed in, they had it where you. You put the. The wood in the stove, then it heats, heats the water of the house. And you can also cook on it. I don't know the proper word, but I think everyone understands what you're talking about. Yeah, you're thinking about that a lot.

I'm thinking about this and then it's just all day I'm gonna try to make things and then at some point you think, oh, you change things. But it's like it's been hours and hours of thinking all the time, and then at some point it takes place. But some people, because they too busy, you know, they have other hobbies, they just have parties with friends, they have another job, they have other things to do that they maybe don't like one thing, they don't have time to think. And as I think, I think that just that's why when I did projects, usually I completely stopped the other one. That's what I did with Timechamber. I could have just kept my online course thing working. Could have been a bit of money, but I just want to keep my whole mind out of it so I can really think about one thing. That for me it was worth it. And he walked at the end. It's like maybe I lost a bit of money on just on one year I could have made some more money. But then I made way more with the other projects because I had my whole heart into it. And I was just thinking about this where if I had to think also at the same time to maintain my thing, okay, maybe I should do some posts here. Maybe then I just get confused in my mind and I cannot really give my heart to it. So I think it's this step by step, just give everything to the next thing. Maybe it's not the best way. You know, it's like going all in every time, every time, just Put it's not really all your eggs in the same basket because you have the other things.

But yeah, if you want to go backwards, you know that if you wanted to be online coach again, if you wanted to sell people programs, you could do that. You've already done it. I say that to men all the time. Like, you're, you're a qualified school teacher, but you want to go travel the world. Like, could you get work again if you went back as a school teacher? If the other thing doesn't work out? Like, the answer is almost always like, yeah, like I'm sure I could get the same position that I'm in now.

Yeah.

So then there's really nothing to be scared of because that position, like when I left working in professional rugby league, I was going to be a father. I was like, maybe my own business is going to work. It's like, worst case, I'm going to go back. Like, I just was successful with teams. I could get a job. I know I could get a job again if I wanted to go back to professional rugby. So you can always go back to that things. There's really not that much to be, to be fearful of. If you can buy yourself a month or six months or a year to test yourself with something else, you probably, you probably work it out.

Yeah, yeah. It's way more about skills because like every time you do something, it's not like we're gonna remove the. Your knowledge. Like you're gonna, you're gonna keep it with you so you get more knowledge and then you, you have it with you your whole life and then you can move on to the next thing where if you like scared of like losing this thing that actually you cannot, then you stay on this and then you just, you just never go anywhere. So I think like you said, you in some part it can be a good thing to, you know, you have this job of teacher maybe that you can do if you want, you can come back. But also at the same time, I like to just cut the thing, you know, it's like there is no way I'm gonna come back. So now I have to find a way. For me, it was this. When I am the first time I moved to Bali, I had zero income. I had nothing. I worked on the app for a year without having any income, just living on savings, just trying to get my expenses really low, checking everything to make sure I can make this up. So for sure the motivation was big. So it's like if it doesn't work, then I have to Find something again. And I don't know, I don't want to go back to anything. So then I moved to Bali when I knew it was the right environment for you. Because I've just been there like just for a camp. I've seen it was great. It was a lot of people training really hard. Good inspiration. I felt okay, there is. I need to be there for a while. And I moved there and the app, I launched it at the same time. So like basically if it wasn't working, I was pretty bad situation because I will be, I will be there without money, without anything and that would be bad. But the fact that I was there in a good environment and with the pressure to okay, like I'm going to make this work, like it needs to work. Because if not I don't have anything. Then he worked and for everything. It was like the same with the time chambers, like the time chamber. Nothing else just cuts everything, you know, you don't have anything and then you can, you can do it with your heart. I would not advise maybe everyone to do this to get everything. But maybe if you like this mindset you can help also.

And the app gave you the. The first time that you really felt like you have full freedom.

Like yeah.

What was that like when the app actually worked?

Yeah, it was a crazy feeling. I still remember it was the first time I would get some money without being employee. So that was the first time ever. Like because before I had jobs in gyms and I would just get the money out of this. But you, you give your time. And now I knew I would, I would have, I would put like way more time at the beginning than any job. You know, I would walk all the time on it because it was my thing. So if you look on the perspective on like money wise or you get. I wasn't paid really good for the hours I'm putting it. But the fact that I could work when I want that was changing everything. Because I knew if I want to take a two, three days doing something else, just clear my mind, I can do whatever I want, I can wake up what I want. And so this freedom, it was the first taste of this freedom and just having it was just a few K just to live per month. And I was, it was perfect. Like I think for a year or two it was like this and I was living the dream because I just could train all day and just do everything I wanted. It was the app like linked to my passion so I could just share what I was doing. So he will. It Was great for me. But then at some point you want to go to the next step and then you just feel like, I know training is not on the only thing you know, that's not one different things in my life. So like when your whole business depend on this and you feel like, okay, like I'm not gonna lie to people and just keep doing the training. The post. I just didn't feel like it. I just didn't feel like giving the same passion post and energy that I had before. If I don't have it, I just want to do something else. I don't want to lie and just fake. I'm. I'm still doing these programs and okay, buy it. And no, I was. I was saying, yeah, buy it, try it. Because I was doing it and I was so excited about it because I feel okay. He walks. He walks like look, I look. But if I'm not doing it anymore, I don't want to talk about it. If I'm not really into it. That's the main thing.

How did you grow the social media for Bali Time Chamber?

Yeah, there was a. It was just like playing with the. It was a lot of work also. People think he just blew up out of it. Did. But before. It was a lot of work and nothing worth working before. So he was just like playing with the, with the codes with Instagram, just like seeing what works. What. Not just. I tried like many different kind of posts. We did the camp with Luke when we did the documentary, we were posting three Instagram posts every day, trying different things. Nothing worked for the whole thing. A few months after, like, I was still trying to do things on my own. Never really worked. And to some point I found like a good formula. Like something that was working pretty consistently. Just okay, like I'm gonna walk into this and just doing everything myself until I was happy. Like a few videos make a million. So like, okay, like, oh, something is working. Did a bit more and. And maybe it's luck or so at some point, I don't know. But bit of luck, bit of work. And then he really blew up and just kept walking on the thing that was. That was working this formula. And he got to like one. A bit more than 1 million followers now. So was pretty quick. I don't know like many accounts that can do 1 million in just a year or something from zero. So it builds a lot of.

It's about a year, hey, between 0 and 1 million now it's like 1.2 or something.

Like.

But it's 18 months.

Yeah.

It's been over for a little while now.

Yeah. Yeah. I think something like this, and it helps build a lot of confidence because it seemed like you just build a new skill. Now I know I have this skill. I feel confident that if I had to do something and I wanted to also share the idea, I kind of know I can do it, I can do it again. It's not just, okay, I'm gonna lose it, and now it's gone. And it's another skill. It's not something I like. Things like, I did it for a while because I knew I had to do it because I wanted this project to work and everything. It's not something I enjoy to do it, but I enjoyed the way to find the solution. I think that's the main thing is, like, I. I like this, like, the chess approach. Like, you want to find how to win this thing, and you. You want to share this message. Everyone wants to do the same. So, like, how can I make my message heard by a lot of people? Try to find a solution. When you find it, you're really happy. Doesn't mean I want to do this my whole life. Like, people will say, like, okay, you found this. You really good with this. So maybe you make a job now you can sell a course on how to make this, and you make some money, and then you. It's like, I don't want to do this. I did it. Now I want to go to the next thing. Like, I don't want to. I don't want to keep talking about reels. I hate the reels. I just want to do something else.

Did you enjoy building the physical location of Bali time chamber?

Yeah, that's something I really enjoy. I think that's what also made me, like, want more out of this, because I did with all the people. Like, you cannot do everything yourself. Like, it's a big thing. Yeah. But you can actually take care of your house. So this was this main thing. This gave me the motivation. I looked a lot of what they did. I worked also with them a lot, and I felt kind of confident. You. You look and you say, okay, like, that's actually not that complicated to put this structure. Like, it was just this and this. Okay, I think I could do it again. And then you feel like, okay, now some. Now I want to try to. On something else. And maybe on my house, I'm just going to try some things. And now it makes me want to do even more. Like, I'm thinking about, yeah, I can do something sustainable, and I do everything Myself. And so it's a. It was the first step, I think, of going back to this life of more manual labor and things like this. Because being in the online hundred percent and traveling, you just realize, okay, there is some good things. There's a lot of bad things about it. Also, I just don't like the lifestyle. I'm not passionate about this. And just made me remember that where I come from, I liked to just, you know, be outside, just use my hands, build stuff, be creative. And. And when you see this, you just want to come back to this life. And that's what we did here. Just come back to France, try to build something. It could feel like going backward. And some people, they think, okay, like, going back there, it's like, and your family, like, how are you going to live with your family? And. But for me, it's like, big step forward. It's like bringing the family back together, building some things, going to the roots, but in a different way. So for me, it's the most exciting project.

People try to. When you told me time chamber, Bali, time chamber, I was like, oh, I think I was scared about COVID still. You know, we just. Still in that period, it wasn't fully finished, I don't think. And I was like, oh, I don't want to be locked up. And it sounds like something that closes you in now. It worked. So I could. I could say something like this about the brand. And everybody loves the brand. And I wasn't a Dragon Ball Z. I didn't know about Dragon Ball Z. It was a bit after my time watching cartoons. But did other people try and convince you maybe to have alcohol included or maybe to have junk food or, like.

Yeah, I mean, I think nobody told me that I was right on this thing. I think it's the opposite. They all said, like. And the fact, like, the big thing is not accepting women. It's like the thing is, like, it's like, I don't like, 50% of the people, they cannot come. So you. Why do you want to lose all these people? And. And, yeah, you could make something, you know, like, a bit more accessible with everyone. Even if you're not really training or something. Maybe you could. And it's basically just, okay, so do a hotel. Like everyone is doing. Say, that's exactly what I don't want to do. It's like doing a thing that everyone is doing. I want to try to create my own thing. And I knew that the only thing I could be good is something. I'm doing something. And what I'm doing is training, having a nice place, eating good, having like recoveries, just the best environment in nature because that's everything I loved. So I knew this would be a good thing if you told me to make a concept about something else, any other technology or concept or girls retreat or something like this. Like I don't know anything about this. Like I'm not gonna make a good girls retreat. Like someone can do it way better than me, I'm sure. But the thing I was doing, I felt pretty confident that I would be in a good position to make it good because that's the things I like this thing. I always looked, I always looked for the good gyms. I've trained in many, many gyms. So I knew how to design one. I knew how even for, for the food, I knew the food I wanted to put avoid all the, the crappy things. So I just fell. When you, you kind of link what you passionate at with the world, what you're doing is pretty easy because you know you're going to be better than average for sure. And if you walked on lots on something, you're going to be pretty good. So for me, yeah, a lot of people told me it was, it was wrong and still this, they say it like say oh you should make a same for the girls and do this. And it's like, yeah, but that's just not what I want to do. Like this is exactly what I did.

This.

Maybe you can do it, maybe you can do it better than me, but I'm not gonna do it.

Yeah, the first month it was like some guys from nine network, some guys from France from your network. It wasn't really. I don't know if it was even public, was it to. Was there anyone that wasn't part of either of our networks that came to. The first one?

No, the first one was more like.

A private kind of.

Yeah, it was like a test for me was most of the people I just, I just asked them privately. Like I just text the people I knew that would be a good fit. You want to come and we make a camp and I just found them like this. It's not even that much social media or anything. Yeah, I was trying social media starting but nobody was seeing the message. It was like a brand new account.

When did you know it was going to work?

Started working. I mean I knew it was going to work. Work means like just I would get my money back. I would had like the things good. I would be safe right after because I made the whole thing so I knew like, if, if we had like, I don't know, like 20, 30% occupancy, it would work. I could pay everything. I could manage the whole thing. I made like a lot of things really low cost. Like we have the sauna with firewood. We don't use too many electricity, but like, we made things. So it's pretty low. So I knew it would be able to run. But I think it was just maybe like, I don't know, five or six months after. I think it was like the end of the year, maybe like December or something when we had the first camp in June where it started to blow up. But I knew it was gonna work in my mind because I knew. I've seen the face of the people when they came. When they came. They were, whoa, like, this is just crazy. And all the people is the first thing they told me were in the camp, they were all coming. And I said like, this is something that would be like, that would be so much more expensive. Like, how do you do this with this price? And they were all like, pretty impressed with this. I was like, okay, okay. It's not just me. They also feel the thing. So I was pretty confident. Okay, I just need time. And I thought it would take maybe a few years to have consistent people coming. But because of social media, everything, it just happens quicker. But I think at some point I would have it done another way because it is a crazy place. Like, it's. It's beautiful, like the, the land, everything. I think that's what, what a lot of people are looking for, like, quiet, having like everything to. To train, to eat good, recover. That was my dream, that there was a thing. So I know many other people have this dream also in, in their mind. So I was pretty, pretty confident it's going to go up, but I wouldn't. Never thought that it would be this level, like having 100% full occupancy all year round. That was not even in my calculation. It wasn't anything like even the. I've seen like the best scenarios that I've written, like, all the things to make it run. The best thing is like not even half of what it's doing now. So it's like you work like way more than what I expected.

And it's really who you excluded, which is how you run the social media as well. It's like, we don't want vegans. It's not for women. It's not for guys who don't want to train. It's not for guys who Want to smoke. And it's like actually excluding more and more people. Not just half the market with women, but also the other 40, you know, 45 are also excluded.

Yeah.

And that's what's really made it special is, like, you only need 20 people at a time and the place is pumping, or 25, whatever the capacity is. I think that's important thing for, you know, like that. That thing of, okay, what am I not doing?

Yeah, exactly. I think that's the main problem with every business is, like, you see every. Even coach when they train, everything, every time they start training, they have a good thing. They're good at something. But they feel like, okay, like, if I want to get more people, I'm going to do, like, weight loss and I'm going to do this. And it's like, no, like, you're just doing everything like other. Other people are doing, and then you have nothing special. Then it's just same, like, everyone. Then you have to be really, really, really good. So, like, find a way so people want to do with you and not with the other ones. For me, it's like, there is. It works also because I have zero. I don't know how to say concurrence.

Competition.

Yeah, I have zero competition. Like, there is no other place like this.

That's what we wanted. Is there anyone yet?

No. No. For now. Still no. Like, not this kind of concept. Like, that's the thing. Like, I've seen a lot of people, they want to do it, but they always get scared. They always say, I want to do something like this, but it's gonna be a woman, and. And we're gonna offer this and. Yeah, you're gonna do a hotel.

Yeah, it's gonna be drinks and you can smoke.

Exactly. It's always like, okay, I'm gonna do it. But, like, everyone, it's like, yeah, but this is completely different. So, like, you don't understand why he worked. It worked because of this and for everything. Even if they have all the concept, it's always the same. Like, and it's just because you get scared. It's just. He's really just this. Because I was about to do this before. I was about to do just Airbnb. Okay. Like, that's the scary part. It's like, you feel like, okay, I don't want to take any risk, so I'm gonna make like, everyone. It's working. It's safe. But if you really want to do something different. Yeah, that's the thing. Like, if you want something that works way Better than others. You have to do something that's different than others. Like, you cannot just do the same and make it work better. So for me, it was like the whole thing is about this, but still when people, they know it, they're going to start something and they still going to fall into the trap of like, okay, I'm scared. So if I do this, I can touch more people and I can. You don't want more people. That's the thing. It's like, even for like four things, is 20% occupancy. So you do the calculation, but you just need a few hundred people that come and come again maybe every year, every two year, and it's full. So actually, why do I. Why do you want to talk about, like billions of people? Like, you can just talk to a few thousand. If you. If you talk well about a few thousand and they all come, you already have way too much. So I'm just seeing things like this. Yeah. Just being way more specific than just trying to talk to everyone.

I would like to be competition. You know, I'm working on being competition. We still have, we're still building. You know, it's. It's not as. Not the same cost, and I haven't managed the project as well, but we, you know, we're still building in Montenegro and we had great experiences there. We have a gym, we have a restaurant, but we have more to do. Before it's anything like the Bali Time Chamber, but I'm excited for a world where there's lots of Time Chamber type experiences and for others, I know other projects around the world, guys were building things, and I think if more of it can happen, that things are built around positive energy. It's a completely different culture that, that Bali Time Chamber is aimed towards. And also, you know what the things that I've been working on, you know, Linden, with the Vanuatu project and such like, that's what's exciting to me is like the flow on effect of what you're doing. And that's the thing that we always have when we're having these discussions. I'm always thinking about, okay, and how do we get this to multiply and how do we make one of these in. On. In every country where you're thinking, I want to do this thing to an amazing standard once and set an example for the world. And then once you've done it, you kind of like, okay, I did that. Now look at the next thing you're talking about. This, these next concepts. There's two that we touched on the One with the electricity and the money and like simplification of that. The other crazy concept that definitely can't work is to move in with your. Your family and your in laws with a new baby and like surely that's not going to work. And I think you had that same kind of feedback like what is it like to live with your. With your family and your in laws? I mean I kind of know because we've been here for the last six weeks.

But yeah.

What's. Were you scared at all? Like were you, were you concerned that maybe this is not gonna work? Maybe they're gonna fight with each other. Like maybe they're gonna drive me crazy.

The being with the family you mean? Yeah, yeah for sure. Same. It's a bit scary but I'm just so way more excited about. Yeah how we can be good than how he can be bad. Like I know for sure you can argue, you can his family. We all have a argument and just it's not perfect. But that's not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for the perfect environment where never want to argue or there is nothing's going to be bad. I'm not sometimes maybe it's going to happen. But as long as we are looking for solutions and we try to do the best and we are the family for me is important because we linked by the blood and we. For my part I mean I'm maybe lucky in my family. I know we all going to make efforts. We all gonna try to do some searching. Maybe we're not gonna be perfect but we're gonna try be some families they really not good with each other and doesn't work. But I know we had this luck and this thing also how I felt, I felt like we are pretty lucky. Like we have, I have my dad, I have my mom. Like some people they don't have. It's like there is a big value here. Like I want to spend more time, I want to bring something better here. And like you see like it worked really well. Like we. It's like closer than ever. Like we are like doing everything together. We have a lot of dinner like around the fire and things like this and it's really, really good energy. We had a lot of family coming. Like the fact that you start to do then other people wants to come also. So like parts of family that we didn't see for. For a long time then they started to come and we had time. So that's the energy I want and that's the main thing I want to do is it's not by trying to get to people to change, maybe that you have the most impact. Maybe it's just by doing it yourself. Like if you really represent the change, if you represent something strong, then people just by seeing it, then they, they want to become like you. They want to be part of something. So if I had to tell them, maybe to all my, the parts of my family I come join, we need to do this together. Like you need to, they would not maybe be happy about it or they wouldn't be excited. But the fact that we do it, we create it, we have the house now, it's working. We are happy. We're doing everything they feel, oh, it's pretty cool what they're doing. And now they want to come. And I feel like for the training programs, like all the businesses the same. Like when I was giving programs to my friends, they okay, like you trained. Like they were asking me, okay, like, how can I do this? They're giving them, okay, try to do this. Try to not party too much. Let's just try to do this together. They would just not do it. But now that they can see, okay, whoa. He can do one arm chin ups and pushes like, oh, yeah, maybe I want to train also now. You know, it's like you get inspired really, but when you see the results and you see this thing. So for me, just I'm not too motivated about like telling everyone to tell them what to do, but it's more like I'm going to do it and if you like it, you're going to join at some point and maybe it's going to be easier.

And what's, what's next for the, the family being here and what do you see as the future for evolution of this?

A lot of ways you can progress. Next thing I think would be the animals. I think I want to have more animals like chicken, goose, pig. We talking about a few things. Goats, we see how much we can manage. It's going to be a whole new experience. I've never had any animals like this. I had a few parts of my family they have. I think that's the next, the next step. The next step, I would say like in general is going to be around being independent and just doing more things yourself. So for sure, like for my big priority is just understanding and try to have more control on the energy we use and the food. I mean, food is an energy also, but I would say like the main energies in general is food, electricity, gas. I said fuel.

Yeah, like the Benzene or.

Yeah, yeah. Because you have the gas for the. For the home, but you have the fuel for the cars, everything. And for me, just like, how can we. Is it by producing it? Some you cannot, or is it by just removing them, Finding another way to live? I don't know. That's still the beginning of the process, but that's where. That's where I want to go. We had big thoughts about this. I think the main thing is about money, because money is a big thing. It's like for me, a big thing was I was to be free from money. And the first way to do it is make a lot of money. So when you have way more money, you don't think about money too much because you know you can just buy all the food you want. It's not gonna make too much difference. You don't check the price, you get the good quality. You. You get a step out of the money. When you have nothing, you have to count every penny. And that's something that I really hated when I was younger. It's like counting everything and being really scared. You know, you have, like, before it was like €10 more. It's like, it's just crazy. I'm not going to do it now. It's better, but it's still not where I want to be. So for me, it's like finding a way to remove money from the equation where you can really do your life without thinking about money at all. I don't know if it's possible, but that would be like the goal, like to try to get something close to a life where you would not think about money like you would you. You don't need to buy food. You can produce your thing. Your house doesn't need any energy that you. That you don't have. You have land already. It's in the family. Then you can just give it to your children after. That would be cool, but I just don't know how it's going to work yet.

Yeah, you can't always know fully. Yeah, you had that experience of the Nico that's scared about the money. And the Nico that was the university student thinking, what's life going to be? What's the next inner evolution that you see for yourself? Like, what does it give you if you get this next level? Say you've got the animals, you've got the. The electric, you know, the energy thing, sort of like, what's the inner journey that you're. That you're looking for?

That's a good question. It's Something that's really blurry. It's like. It's more towards spirituality, I think, but not in the way we. We use it usually. I think just something different. Just I think it's like everyone just like understanding the world, understanding universe, like how it's walking, why we here? Just this kind of questions. I wanna. Maybe I'm. We're never gonna answer them, but we can get a bit closer. So. And I feel like, for me, like removing this anxiety, this thing that just makes. Keep this like fear in my heart of losing something, you know, like the, the money, the. The energies, because we depend on so many things, it's like for sure you're gonna be scared. You're gonna have this fear in you your whole life. And if I could remove maybe not 100% of it, but most of most of it, I think we could reconnect with something else that now I cannot describe because I don't really know. But I feel like the path should be. This should be to more freedom. So if I can get out of this, of this fear of this, even if I don't have much, like nothing compared to how it was. But you, you feel so much better when you remove some fear of your heart. So you just want to keep doing it. And I just want to see how it's going to feel when. When you remove everything, when you feel really in peace, when you know how things are working. I think that's something I want to experience more and I think that's what's going to bring me the, the answers. But I think it's a really long journey. Like it's something that's going to take the whole life. The.

It sounds a little crazy to the. Maybe to the modern man who's just stuck in the, in the pressure and. But this is what's been going on through the ages. Like, that's what monks were doing and the people have been going and building a house in the country or on the hill, even as a farmer or even as, you know, not necessarily like a religious devotion that. That's been happening all through the ages, that people would simplify things to be able to experience something like that. Where I lived on Sark, there were a lot of people moved there to this little island between England and France. And they just were pursuing like, what. What's the truth of these things? The. There's also some of the books that I've been reading, the, the Magical Child book which I gifted you. Like, it's really what he's outlining, which is Interesting that we've also spoken about that you prefer not to read it from a book, but kind of arrive to your own philosophies a lot. And this, this book is pretty much saying a lot of what you're, you're saying that when you have a good relationship with your mother and then you have a good relationship with, with the land and then you go into fatherhood, then you can have this other experience of life. And he's saying that it naturally wants to unfold within you like the child naturally wants to bond to the mother. It's not something that you have to teach the child to do and the father, but especially the mother in the early phase. And then you want to bond to the earth where between seven and 14 you understand how to produce food and how to look after yourself. And this is kind of what you're looking to solve. And what I think so many men that I speak to that in their heart somewhere they know they want to solve this 7 to 14 year old problem. And then you can move on to having a family when you go through puberty and, and that in many cultures that is solved by 21 and it's not really a mystery of who the wife is going to be and if you're going to have children or not, that's already solved by the time you're 21 and then you have the rest of your life to continue. And he's kind of pointing at that there is this other evolution that will naturally unfold in the same way that we naturally want to bond to the mother, to the earth and to the, to the fatherhood experience. That there is a natural evolution that continues after that, but we don't get to experience it because we're so pushed with, with fear and anxiety and is everything you're describing is like I had to learn it from a book and through my mentor, you know, pushing me towards it. But 100% I, I'm, I'm feeling that this is true and I've get to live even while I've been here with you, the first couple of weeks I was kind of chilling and in the garden and like just having fun and being with the children. And then I decided to knuckle down on a new business that I'm launching and I'm not the same person. Like I feel it like if I'm on the phone for, you know, 10 hours in a day when I'm with you, it's not the same as if I've had one hour on the phone for the day. Or less. So I know what you're saying is I'm experiencing this as well. And.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's why. Also, the most important is to take actions every time. I think that's how we move really forward is just to. When we think about something, we just try it, try it quick. Like, just do something, because that's where you are in the situation where you leave it, that you can open your mind to other perspective. And if you wait in the same position and you try to, you know, like, see the whole world and try to discover everything, find the right thing without moving, it's. There's no way. It's impossible. Because the only way you can open these ideas, like open doors is just by going to the next one. Going to the next one. And. And for me is this. That's why I also, like, every time I have a project, I'm excited to be in it, because I know, like, the. It's really like entering a new chamber. Like, you have a. You have a room. You enter this room, and you know that when you're gonna be in this room, you're gonna see all those things that you cannot see outside of this room. So you want to move, like, room from room to another one to another one. And. And for sure, like, when you are in one, you have to give up on the other one. Like, you have to keep moving. So you. I feel like, yeah, having these ideas without changing the room is just impossible. It's just like, I think physically, like, mentally or something not possible. Like you. I would have never have this discussion with you right now if I was still, like, maybe in Bali, just doing with the same years, still father, still other thing. I would have never think the same that when I'm doing this. So it's really important, like, to, I think, chase this. This new environment, a new experience. The same like the children. It's always the same. It's like, that's what I see with my daughter. It's just like, she just always wants new things, you know, it needs to be. She just loved it. Like, when you play with the toy, like a few times. Okay. Like, I understand how it turns. I understand the sound it makes. Everything. Okay, now give me another one. I want to see something new. Because if they stay in the same position, they just stop learning. I. I think. I don't know much, but I think if a child that he would just, like, play in the same area and same thing all the time and never gets bored, that's a bit of a problem. I Think for sure. He needs to get bored, he needs to move, he needs to want something else. And sometimes he go, why is he crying? Like, he has everything. Like, look, I bought all these toys. Like he's just played like 10 days with them. Like he's done. You need to get a new space. Like be outside, be in another room. Just being in another room with the other things. And okay, there's something new I can learn. I can think differently. And I think that's how you, you build your brain.

Yeah, Eden loves watching me five ball juggle and play with the soccer ball. They're the two things his mouth opens, which is like parasympathetic, and you can just see it's going straight into his subconscious mind. The same way that a child would look at the iPad. That's what it looks like, you know, when you see the children that just switch off and watch it. Which we, we don't do at all with him. We didn't do it with our other two children. But it's that kind of thing of like this is going directly into the, into the subconscious, setting up the environment where the things that are going in are the things you want. Like, also, if you sit them outside, they've been playing outside with the, the slack line and the trees. And when they're just sitting and staring, this. They say this is the best time for them to consolidate their thoughts, that they meant to go through these, these phases. But yeah, the, the new thing, I, I can't help but feel like that's. That's us for life, Nico. Like that's how we're. It's like if it's there in the baby, it's there forever. Like we can look to the truth from the baby. And, and that's what I'm pointing at with this training system is like you can improve your balance for your whole life. For the baby, for sure. They want to improve their balance. Like, no doubt. But then people love surfing, people love skating, and, and they. Whatever way that you find that plays with your balance. Like, it was fun for us on the back of the truck where you're bouncing on the, on the, on the wood. It's like some kind of trampoline. But, you know, there's some risk you're to going to fall into all the thorns or fall off the truck, but you're playing that game when you're balancing and then you're alive and you're doing the, you're doing the thing. So we have this in the physical and it's really concrete and everyone can do it. And you feel terrible if you're stagnant physically, even if you're completing the same workout over and over. Maybe you look good in the mirror, but if you're not doing what the baby does.

Yeah.

But then also in business, like, you're continuing to do that. And then we're talking about it also in the kind of the spiritual, the internal journey, the family relationships thing. This is.

Yeah.

In each of these areas, continuing to find the next level. I love that we get to have this discussion. This is what I've set my life up around this. I had a month with J Top earlier this year. He's just released two of his books. He started a new business off the back of it and it was fun. He's good at the guitar. It was fun to have that experience with him playing guitar. We played some music with the children. I'm about to go to the place that you helped us set up in Bali. I've got Tim Frey and Jack Zuvalek come in. They're great business minds and I know that part of the influence now is always towards family. Like, you bring what you have. Right. So I bring what I have to that discussion. They're really good with money and with business, and I know that they're going to help me with that. What do you think about this thing that we're doing here? Because it's not what most men do. They don't just go and hang out for a month or. Or, you know, we did it. That's how Bali Time chamber started.

Right.

Like, I was like, can I come and. Can I come and stay? And we just parked ourselves right next to what was Bali time chamber for a few weeks. And we would usually meet up around lunchtime, do some training, stay for stakes. Usually it was like nighttime, trying to get home on the scooter in the dark, through the. Through the path and everything. Like this idea. Because you have it as well now. You have it with Florian and with Amin, and you had life before that as well, when you didn't really have these kind of experiences. Like, what's it like for you to. To have these adventures?

Yeah, I think that's the most important at the end is the really how you grow. I think every. I think everyone has something in mind. It's like, oh, if I. If I didn't do this trip, I would have never been the same, you know, like, we always felt this thing. Like you've just been a week in holiday somewhere, you've seen something different. You've seen a different culture, maybe something, and then it unlocks something in your mind, and then you come back and you're different and then something. So you feel like, how would be my life if I've never been there? It's like you'd have been a way less. I would like, understand way less things. And so the more you have these things for me, the more you go on adventure and you go to another one. It's just like learning and experiencing all the time. And that's what you do also with the whole family, for the children and they've been to, I don't know, like 20, 30, even maybe more countries, they know many culture, they know a lot of things. When they're going to have to take decisions for them, for the family, they know what they're going to do. You know, they've seen a lot of things. They know the kind of people they like. They know the kind of people they don't like. They know. They know a lot of things because they experience. They went there. It's not just looking a movie, looking a documentary on YouTube or you just going there. So for sure, like, the physical aspect I think is really, really important. Like we said, it's like even listening, this podcast is cool. It's open a new door. But if you don't, like, really go with someone that speaks like this, that thinks the same, and it's still going to be just a podcast, you know, it's still going to be just an idea and. And you're not going to make it become something way more powerful in the real life. And that was the main motivation for the time chamber. I think it was just like, okay, like, I'm just tired of all these screens and always saying, oh, yeah, we do this and then we never have a place to meet. So I'm just going to make this place, we're going to make this place and we're going to all meet there. And then it's going to be crazy because when we're there and we are 20 like us, and we all speak and we all say crazy things and we want to do this, and then he opens a lot of things. I think what happens with all the, the people there, like Jonathan, I was speaking a few days ago, he just came with the first event and now has his place in Greece and everything.

And you manual as well in Portugal.

Sometimes feel like, yeah, I don't know, maybe if I've never been there, I would have never have the idea. I would never do this. I think It's. It's really positive in general, like, what we are experiencing like this, all these discussions.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think, like you said also to say what you think before. Like, I think it's. It's a forever thing. I think it's going to be like this forever. That's really what I think. Because a lot of people, sometimes they tell me, like, yeah, is it going to be the good one? Like, is it going to be the last project? Like, are you going to stay here now? It's like, I don't know. It's like, it's like, I don't think so. I don't think it's going to. It's never going to be the last one because it's going to stay like this all the time. And for sure, it's a bit scary to think like this because you feel like every time you're doing something, it's not going to be the last. Every time we, I don't know, we get somewhere, it's like, okay, this is our place for life. Like, we. We're not gonna move anymore. And this thinking is just puts boundaries, like, too. Too much limits of, like, okay, it needs to be the good one. And then you're gonna try to convince yourself that it's. You worked for it. So it's the good one. So you prefer not even looking at other opportunities. You feel like, no, no, no, no, I know he's the good one. I need to stay here. Like, you know, you're scared of having something better after. So for me, I'm always thinking of, okay, like, that's the next step. This next step is going to give me the food for thoughts to have something that, I don't know that might be better the day I'm going to have it in my mind and I can really see it. Okay, I'm going to try, and I'm going to try it. And I don't really care about where it was before. Like, we need to, like, the children just, okay, I'm here now. It's fun. It's fun on this grass I played here, but I want to even go in something that's way more uncomfortable. Like, I want to experience, like, how it's the spiky stuff. Like, I want to see how it is. And that's why you. You have to move him.

They were buried under the bamboo there. At one stage, when we were chopping all the bamboo, the children were like, within the pile of all the bamboo that, that we chopped down. The. They just. Yeah, they Want the adventure all the time. I think that's. That's us. I think the way men are struggling. A lot of men are struggling mentally. Statistically, I think it's because of this that they're not getting to have these new experiences. And men are meant to be pushing the limits. And women choose the man because they know the man will push the limits. But then a lot of men will do what the woman wants, which the woman always wants. The security and the nesting and to be steady. And this is a stereotype, but it's. It's. It's pretty much true for. For most relationships.

That's really true. So that's like taking ownership and like being a leader also, I think in the family, like, I think the husband. That's how I see the. The role. And you see, like, with. Even with my wife, it's like you. When you propose something new, it's always scary. You know, it's like even now, imagine thinking about no electricity and things like this, like, whoa. But if you're confident, like, every. Every time we moved, like, we look back the years from where we met, every year has been a biggest improvement that we never thought about for the first time. So it was biggest improvement. Biggest. And every time, it was scary. Every time he was okay, we are good. We are in Canggu. It's like everything. The restaurants. We're gonna move to Mundok in the mountains, and there's nothing there. The place is not great, but we're gonna build something. It's scary. But at the end we had the time chamber and then we had to move. Oh, it's scary. We have everything here. Everything is really set up. Like, it's a bit stupid to move. We move. We have something even better now, and every time it's the same. So even if it's a bit scary, I think that's the. The husband also, the role is just to force her to move. Even if for sure, she has the nesting thing. She wanna. She want to be safe, and that's good. But she's going to bring the safety in the next thing. You just have to get the step and then she makes it. She makes it nice. And then you bring the new step. But if you stay at the right place and you. You don't bring this energy of, like, taking the risk. I think you miss a lot of things. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's part of the reason for a lot of divorce as well, is that the man is not excited for life anymore. The man is not exciting to the woman. If you don't take the man role role, then the woman kind of takes that role and then everything gets messed up. And this is, this is happening a lot. It kind of happened in, in my relationship like in, in some ways and you know, we had a big change in the dynamic and. But I think, I think that dynamic and it's, that's a good conversation, interesting conversation to have around the man woman dynamic. The one that. But everyone's kind of aware of that and I think it's really difficult for a man to have a full experience of life without finding their woman. And obviously the children part of it is a, is a huge adventure that you really can't understand unless you experience it. But the one that people don't really understand and don't really talk about very much is the connection of, of men to other men. And having some guys that you can rely on, I think this is something that can really help and work even if you don't yet have a wife and family, family as well, children. I see this with the young men that I work with in their early 20s when there's five of them that are supporting each other, growing their online business, growing their social media. They go and visiting each other. They, they love life so much. They still want a girlfriend. They still want. It's, it's not like the what on Bali time chamber account. People are saying oh, it's all for gays. Clearly it's not. This is not a gays conversation. But when you have some men who, who support each other and who are having fun together, can train together, eat together, it is like something that, and it's not in that Chilton Pierce book that I was talking about as well with those chapters of like you need your mother and then you need. I feel like it's, it's such a huge thing to have some, some men that you can rely on. And that's something that a lot of guys don't even have on the radar. They think that I'm going to solve it myself and you can even underestimate it. But when I look back it's like, well, yeah, I needed to spend that time. You know, I went and spent time with Ben Patrick in 2020 just before COVID like hit that stuff exploded in 2021 and, and Lucas was at that event in, in, in in Florida. Like when I look back it's like it's always that thing of like let's come together and it's more so like we do these four day events and we do like the stuff that's kind of like choreographed in a way, but when it's simply we're going to be in that same area for a month, for a few weeks, that's. That seems to be the most powerful thing. Like, you. You built it. And I'm sure there's so many stories to come out of that place that you're. It's not your style to want to collect all the testimonials and all the stories. Maybe some guys can message me because I get them. Occasionally people tell me what changed for them when they went to Bali. Time chamber. A lot of my friends have been. But yeah, I think that's. That's probably a good thing to finish this on is like, you can have this. You can, you can have that connection with other men if you build yourself and, and you, you chase a vision.

But yeah, I would say, like, that just made me think, like, if I, If I was only speaking with my wife, like, just. Just staying at home and just speaking with my wife, I would have never done all this because that's not her job, that's not her role to just push me to do all these things. She. To more like, make you feel good and have a good time. But the pushing thing, the challenge thing, come from other men, I think. And if I didn't have these discussions with other friends and you need like another. Another guy to challenge your ideas, it's more like, oh, yeah, you scared of doing this? Yeah. Do it. Yeah, try and just like, stupid game. But at the end of these stupid games, most of the time you do things that you are not capable of. And now you feel way more confident and you feel like, okay, like, you, I did this. And like, just because they pushed me. And for me, the ideas is the same. Like, if we didn't have all these discussions or anything, I would never think about all the stuff. I think I would slowly die. I would slowly just feel like, okay, maybe I just should be happy with what I have. We have. We have a pretty good situation. And that's true. We have a really great situation. Situation. But it doesn't mean he can get better. He can get more exciting. We can learn new things. I don't know. Someone that learns a lot of things, that knows a lot of things, he never get to a point like, okay, I know a lot of stuff. So now I stop learning. It's like I stop trying to read something or something. If he gets to this point, it's because he never stopped. Like, he always tried to learn something new. So that's the only way. And that's by having these discussions, I think, with the. With the other guy that pushes you in the time chamber. That's what we were thinking. It's like, I was staying many months, like, in the mountains and everything. I was thinking more safety. I was thinking Airbnb, okay, we're going to do something, and then a man come, get some ideas, train together, do some boxing, get some punches. And it's like, okay, let's just do something better. Let's just try better.

Yeah.

And that's how the cool things come.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't help but think that that's. That's how Europe got here. Like, always, like, looking, okay, what's the better way of doing this? A lot of people hate on Europe at the moment. Everyone's saying it's going to collapse. And. But you look around here and it's beautiful. And it was built by people who loved beautiful things and they weren't afraid to do the work. And there's other places around the world. It's not exclusive to Europe, friend. In the mountains of Peru, like you. You look at. I've been talking about, like, the. The system that helped the water to flow all down the mountains. Like, those people were thinking those. The people who built the cathedrals and built these massive buildings and. And we were talking about maybe they were healing buildings, like, the way they're all set up for the acoustics and the organs that they made. And we know about sound therapy and light therapy now. You know, maybe these things were different to what we. You know, people say they're also the free power. I don't know. But we. There's. There. There can be a shift in the way that we think about existence. And you don't have to look too far back to think they were thinking very, very differently. To us, when you build something that makes the water flow down the mountain from the top to the bottom, they weren't thinking about, oh, this is just my patch of land. I'm just going to build a big fence and have my three sheep, and everything's going to be like, they were working together to build something amazing. You look at those aqueducts that have been built, you know, across Europe to carry the water from one place to another. You see the water coming out of the mountainside somewhere in Montenegro, and you're like, where does this pipe come from?

Like, yeah, we need.

We need to find a way to get back to this mentality, whether it's in Europe or wherever it's Going to be. Yeah, that's the. The beautiful thing about the. These conversations, these connections. Everyone that goes to Bali Time chamber, everyone that's following that account, there's some part within us that. That wants this. And we're finding it. We're experiencing a little bit of it. But I think there's more. I think there's so much more. We're just starting to play with what can be possible.

Yeah, I think we looked at all the stuff, like you really need a brotherhood around you. You need some guys you can trust. I think that's the most important to start. I think we need to find these guys. And that gives you the motivation also to make this family. Because just being around guys like Time chamber is not for. It's not forever. It's not like you're going to live in a time chamber forever. You're going to be happy. Now there's just one cycle is a step to, to build yourself, to have new ideas, to, you know, grow. But then you want to have this. You want to get the good wife, you want to make children. You have a meaning for what you do, but you need to keep this relationship with the, with the guys. It's not, unfortunately, like, most of the time is just like our friends. Okay, now I stop my friends. I have the family now I stay here, don't talk with my friends anymore. And it's like you need this whole energy. Like, you need the man energy, you need the family, need the wife energy, need the children. And I think when you have all this, it's pretty. It's not easy. I'm not saying, oh, they're just pick. And you're gonna have the good ones. It's a lot of work, but I think it's all about energies. If you really swift switch your energy and you try to like, get to these good things and you, you spread this energy around, you're gonna attract also, like the. The right wife, the right friends. If you keep on just hanging out on the, on the dating platforms, on the nightclubs or just like any other activities or something, you just like, for sure you're not gonna attract anything. You're still in this thing. Like, you need maybe go away, go somewhere else, maybe go more in nature, go reconnect the thing, and it's gonna come to you, you. And at some point, like, I think that's the most important. Like get. Get the good friends getting the right wife for you make children. And I think you're gonna have everything in your head at this point. Like, you're gonna be in the, like we said, in the, in the right room to think after. But you need to, to be there, I think to get the right ideas and to not get brainwashed so easily by okay, buy this, get the nice car and get this and this chase money and, and just, you just get lost. And at some point you feel like, okay, maybe solution was at the beginning.

Yeah, if you, if you're thinking about just taking what you, what you think you need. You can't build Paris or Amsterdam with this mentality. You go to these big cities and it wasn't like everyone trying to take the best that they could. The waterways and everything. We talked about the tunnels. Like everyone knows there's a lot of tunnels. There's the whole city underneath the cities, maybe even around here between the churches. You're saying like older people are talking about it. You don't build a tunnel from one church to the next church on your own because you're thinking about yourself. So how do we, how do we build these massive cities of beautiful buildings and these huge waterways? Like a lot of these waterways are man made. Your father told me, I think he said there's, I forget the number now. 7, 000 miles or something of, of waterways in France.

Oh yeah, that's been handmade. I don't know exactly. What's another canal? Jim did the one. There's all the boats. I know he's been handmade from the start. Like it's just crazy. He's been. Yeah, it took a thousand. I don't know how many.

I think, I think he said there's 7000 miles in France and like 6000 miles in Amsterdam. In Holland, which is a small country, but you see it across England as well. It's like they built these canals to, to carry stuff. And they're thinking for many generations of like, okay, this is going to be an efficient way to move things around. That's the dream. Man is like, how do we get, how do I get myself to that mentality of to want to be in projects like that and to be part of a culture.

And that's the thing because like now we would think if we want to do bigger things, we would think about technology. We say like, okay, like we want to do this so we need a bigger machine, we need a bigger tractor, you know, to get all the things and we need this. But no, they did it like hundreds and hundreds of like years ago. And they, they did it way better, way bigger. And they had nothing. They didn't have all these tractors and petrol and all this stuff. So maybe, like, it's not about technology but more about communities. It's just having more people. Like we said, like, maybe when you chop the tree, if you get a chainsaw, you go faster, but if you are maybe 15, 20 people from the family walking together, you go way faster than a guy with a chainsaw. Like, you can get multiple things. Some are charging, some are cutting, some are doing other stuff. You just get things done way faster just because you have more people. But that's the main problem now. It's like we don't have all these people walking in the same direction, everyone fighting each other and just get the biggest tractor to do it, everything yourself. It just doesn't go anywhere.

Yeah, you're a builder, so you build houses all your life, but then you barely pay off your own house. You only need one house.

It's like the Amish.

Amish.

It's like the Amish, it's like they, they build the whole barn in one day just because they, they're going to come, they're going to be hundred and they all have a task to do, they're going to do everything. And in a day you have your barn. And that's the power of community. Like, you can get the biggest tractor and everything. They're not going to do it in one day, but they can.

One of the things that I. We other big idea that is here that I want to capture while I'm at this place in this time is the idea that during the time of the Mongol Empire, a woman could walk across the. Across Asia with a plate of gold on her head and not get touched. And people say what they will about the, the Mongolian empire and maybe, maybe they did it in a nasty way. I don't know. But what if, you know, what if that was going to be the future for, for our daughters? How many men are there that actually want that kind of world, you know, for, for their daughters? And if it was possible before, you know, I can't help but think that Amsterdam, that Paris, that, that there have been other times with another mentality where you didn't have to be so fearful of, you know, concerned for, for how the world is going to be, that your children were going to grow up here.

Yeah, it's like trustful society. This. That's what's like really missing now. You see, like all the places they, they slowly, they're slowly closing in the small space where you can get your bread. You know, you just go, you pick up you put the money like nobody's looking. Like, it's like just like the neighbors, they put this here, they put the bread out and they put the thing. You just come. But you have to trust that the guys are going to put the coin. And in Switzerland, in Austria, there's a lot. Like you have cheese in small fridges or something you can just really open. You pick it up, you could live with it and just don't pay. But they do it because everyone knows it's important to do this. If you start to lie, this thing is going to disappear. And that's what we experience now, everything disappear. And now we have things that are like, you cannot even smash with a hammer because they know, like everyone is smashing them and they protect everything. And, and then you have this whole environment where you see like it's, it's scary. Like it's not even a fridge open now anymore. Now it's blocked. Now it has chains and steel and, and you have to live with this now. And, and for sure, like that's not the place you want for, for you, for your daughters, for your children, for. But there's still some places like this just. It's just disappearing slowly.

The way you would take away the fear would be to assure for those who participate in society that like with the Amish, that they're going to have a house and they're going to have food and then like, what are you gonna. The last thing you want is to do the wrong thing by the community because that's, that's where you live and everyone knows each other and this is how it was built. This is how.

Yeah, accountability and justice. That's the thing with. Missed a lot, especially in France. Like now you can commit all the crimes, you're never going to have any problem. And I think that's also before, like if it was a crime, it was way, way harder on the crime. Like if someone would steal something, I think it would be executed on the, in the middle of the thing and nobody would do it anymore just because they, they know, like this is, this is wrong and this is really bad for society. And now we like kind of spy and try to find excuses, try to defend the people that make the crimes. And it's just totally wrong.

I saw two guys crash a Tesla when I was in Paris. Not this last time, but the one before, from the hotel room. They crashed into a bus terminal with a Tesla at maybe 6 o' clock in the morning. They like party night or something. They're still in a car the two guys get out of the car. They. They kind of like look, see if they've forgotten anything. They go walk away. They didn't seem worried at all. They come back, check the car again, have a look around again. There's other people like watching them. They. Then they walk off again like they didn't care at all. Like they obviously stole in the car and then they're just like checking to see if they forgot anything. Like there was hundreds of windows that were looking down there in the city.

They just didn't give, didn't care. Yeah, you see a lot of videos like this. You know, people like just robbing bikes and just not like cutting the chains, just taking the bike in like 2pm everyone, everyone walking around, just. They look, they see the guy is like just cutting the chain to get the bike. And some off recording, say okay, yeah, recording. You doesn't care. You know, he knows nothing's going to happen. He's going to. Going to take the bike and that's fine. I think that's the scariest things like when you see like societies falling apart is like. It's like crimes in the street right now. Anybody's doing anything, like this guy should be like, you know, like when you do this is. It's just, just not normal. If you start to be okay with this, the same what is going to be with your daughter. When it's going to be. When it's I.

It's a dark, it's a dark thing. It's a dark image. But at the same time you see the, the light of connection. And if there's, if the, if there's a reconnection and a connection. You can see it in the small villages of France. When I worked here with the rugby league team, the Catalan Dragons, what shocked me at the start when I worked with the players was how close they are to each other. It's like the culture of giving each other kisses is normal amongst men in France. The kisses on the cheek. But you could see that it wasn't just a cultural thing. They're really connected to each other. The bond between the men is much stronger. I think you've noticed this as well with having men come from all around the world to Bali time chamber. French men tend to have a stronger connection to each other.

It's true. It's true. How that's, that's something I was thinking also how now is everything is sexualized that like you don't really want to do anything. And how before I remember just in. In school, like in Rugby in soccer, I think like you had like a lot of hugs and just like you, you play you, you so happy. Like you. The. And it's like, it's like nothing close to be gay or anything. You know, it's like, it's just like you win a game, you're happy, you exchange and now it's just like. I know, yeah, you had a kiss on the cheek and it's gonna be always gay and you know, it's always a sexualized is. Everything is going to the, you know, to the dark side of everything. It's like even the, the good thing of just two men hugging each other because they want something, they work hard for something, they're happy, you share the energy and now it's just looking in a weird perspective and so it's like, it's just like really, really, really sad. Yeah.

So this is it. This is the, this is the game. Continue to build. Continue to look at what's next and make connections with other people who want to. Want to build stuff, connect families together. I think if we're doing this, this is what we can do. And my, my guess, my feeling is that there are millions of men out there and millions of families out there who want something like what we're talking about, but they're just not sure how to, how to connect, how to get, get going with it. But we've given, at least you've shared what, what's worked for you to, to get to where you are right now. And I know you're going to continue to build what you believe in most. And yeah, I think it's, it's great to, to hear new way of how you're thinking about things. I think it's quite a different conversation. Definitely better set up than the last time we did a podcast together. Yeah, I appreciate, you know, I appreciate the opportunity to come and live here with, with your family. I said I wanted to come and you're just like, yeah, we've got some space and it's been beautiful to have my children connect with, with your wife and with your parents and your in laws and you know, they experience this place as if it's their own. And that's, that's the thing that I'm, I love most. That's what I treasure most is that I have these opportunities now around the world and yeah, I look forward to coming back again with the bigger families and new adventures. Yeah, I appreciate all the work that you're doing and thanks for, yeah, thanks.

To you for coming. Like, for me it's a. It's like. It's a gift for you to come. Like, just take time to come here, like, speak, help me on the land, like, have all these things for me. I know every time is a big shift when we. We have discussions every time. So I feel really lucky, like, to have. To have this, like, people coming here is great. So I'm sure you're going to bring a lot of good things also with your projects. Vanuatu, Montenegro, all the things. I'm sure it's going to be good. And if there is a way to make things better, it must be this one. I think so, yeah. Just need to keep going.

Let's do it. Thanks, bro.