26. Programming New Athlete | Skill, speed, stamina, strength & stretch

Yeah. So thinking about programming for new athlete and how to get the best out of yourself athletically, like this is what in essence the program is, is just there to give you something to measure against and, and some clearer direction than if you were to be just purely instinctive when you go to the gym. I think there's more and more to be said for being purely instinctive when you go to the gym. If you look at the example of parkour, you could see that extreme levels of performance can be arrived to just by turning up and having fun and being instinctive about wanting to progress. And if you're in a culture where things are progressing and you're around other people who have energy, then this, I think, can. I mean, it's proven to work. And in many ways I'm moving more towards this intuition of, you know, intuitively not injuring yourself is something that. I've been thinking quite a lot about how children kind of play on the edge. My little boy at the moment, I've got the blurred background thing on, but he's. He's walking off the edge of things a lot at the moment. Yesterday he walked off a platform about 3 meters higher and he left his foot on the platform as he came off. So he basically cartwheeled off the top of the platform and I caught him on the way down, but it wouldn't have been a nice landing if he didn't. He just climbed up a ladder first thing in the morning before his mother was up. This is an example, like just him just wanting to have the experience of launching himself off the Hyatt, but when I'm not going to catch him, there's no chance that he would do that. Like he, he's clearly is aware that, okay, I only do this because he's standing there. And we've done this stuff before when we play here in the gym. There's like a specific height where he walks off it and he's fine about walking off it. And then if I go an inch higher, like, he doesn't walk off it. He knows instinctively, like, I'm probably just going to fall down. I can't really get off that. It's a bit above waist height for him, the height that he walks off instinctively at the moment. And he hasn't really learned to jump yet. Like he's. He's trying to, but it doesn't, doesn't quite work with getting both feet yet. So there is something big to be said to. For the intuitive side of programming, and I think it is underrated. I know it's underrated, undervalued, underestimated. As long as the underpinning is that the athlete wants to win or that you want to win, that you want to improve, then there's a lot of value in being intuitive of like, yeah, today's not the day to. To push super hard or today I can stay in the gym for an extra hour. If having some metrics to go with that is also valuable. If you're taking your morning heart rate, if you're measuring grip strength, some metrics can give you some feedback of like, not just personal opinion on what's going on. If you haven't read the how to skate 10k, has anyone read the how to skate 10k guide? He broke the world record in the. In the 10k skate. He also won the 5k and his training was really, really interesting. It wasn't conjugate. He did it in blocks around the year and I think it makes sense to use those blocks for that outcome, which was highly lactic. Sporting event that you don't want to train like that year round. Doesn't make sense to train like that year round. It's very hard to train like that year round. And he chose not to. And he. He broke the world record very methodically. Yeah. Neil's fan something. And yeah, it's a really good. It's a really good book to think about training, planning and using metrics by taking morning heart rate. I do morning heart rate and control pause. Is anyone using the morning health metrics at the moment? Does anyone do them on their own or in the app? I take my weight every morning and then the control pause and the heart rate and they give me some data. So if you. If I. If I'm pushing really hard and I'm feeling like I think I'm pushing really hard, but there's no change in the physical metrics. Like, chances are I'm not actually really pushing that hard or if I want to tell myself like, yeah, I'm handling this training amazingly, everything's great, but my heart rate's up by 10 beats a minute in the morning. Like, there's some physiology to say, yeah, like, you're excited about this, but your body's telling you something different. Um, so this is a key tool for programming. We used heart rate variability with The Roosters in 201414 that the heart rate variability testing is different to heart rate itself. It's measuring the variance between beats and there's lots of different qualities that can be measured. There's lots of different systems of Using it different types of software. But the that metric is a good one measure. It's an index of aging. It's an index of stress. It was developed by the space programs to be able to understand the health of people in space or under stress at least. So this is kind of your foundation. I like the grip test for neurological output. So you just basically, if you think of the brain and the spine as being putting electrical force to the muscles, if that signal to the, to the muscles is getting less, then there's something not great going on and it can get confused or mixed by fatigue in the forearms. If you train the forearms specifically and the grip test goes down well, yeah, like that muscle is just fatigued, but if you're not smashing the grip specifically, then it's pretty reliable. And yeah, we tested it every session in 2013, every weight session and before every game. And we saw very consistent data over the year. Number of times when players trended down by 10 kilos, they got injured. Sometimes they're training down by like 15 kilos and they'd been through a lot of stress of like playing specifically around the representative football. When they had like the went away, they played with another team. It was a really big deal for them and then they got injured. This was, this was like really, really powerful tool. Our biggest day of the year was the day before the, the game before the grand final. Grand final day was just a tiny bit underneath that. But we saw even like with the game day scores over the year, the, the players were more neurologically prepared later in the year than they were at the start. Part of this is just psychology of like, do you, do you want to train today? Like if your measure is low, like it might be that you're under aroused, you're under interested in performing well that day. But that's also interesting data for you day to day and for a professional team. And yeah, like the, they were most aroused on the biggest days and they won. And that's a good sign. And if, if we had have seen like this massive trend of like, okay, they're getting better through the year and then bigger games, they're getting more excited. And then one of the, they were down and like it would have been a good sign of like, maybe we, we trained too much this week or maybe they, the players are just taking it too lightly. But the coach wanted to know these numbers and I would share them with him. So yeah, I would encourage you to start using the, the health tracking. Like if you're serious about athletic performance for yourself or As a coach encouraging people to track, I'm a fan of tracking body weight every day as well. Most people are either too fat or don't have enough muscle for the thing that they need to do. Like that's the, the nature of it. For performance there's a certain level of too fat where it's just you don't get to do the thing like you can't be a sprinter with 15 body fat at an elite level and, and this thing is always there whether we like it or not. There's a certain level of muscle mass that's required for different positions. In rugby, every sport has its physical buy in. So if you're moving, if you want to change, then it's better to measure. That's basically, that's why we have so many metrics in the app and attract a lot of metrics with the players. But these are some of the, the base physiological ones. Then in terms of the actual program, what does it look like for a professional athlete? If you look at a rugby player or a soccer player, they got to do an hour to an hour and a half of skills training and then they're going to do 20 to 30 to 40 minutes of weight training. They might do 10 minutes maximum, 20 minutes of speed twice a week. Yeah, Rugby, soccer, this kind of context, basketball, tennis player, you know, they're doing three hours of skills work a day. Maybe. Yeah, maybe half an hour, maybe an hour in the gym. Emmanuel could speak to us more to the, to the golf side of things, but it's normal in the sporting world that skills is the majority of your training in a sport like parkour. It's, it's a mix. But I guess most of the skill, most of the work that you're doing is not going to be right on the edge of your physical capacity like you, you should be doing maybe 80% of the moves that you do. You, you. It's not like everything you've got physically like maximal jump I would say would, would make more sense. I don't know if that's like that in the culture. I'm sure it varies from group to group, time to time, ages, et cetera, but there's a lot of submaximal stuff that you can do. If you look at sprinters, how much sub maximal work are they doing? Like most of the work they're doing is drills, warmup, medicine ball throws and then they do like six big efforts for the session. So it still ends up being the same thing. Of like force is about 20% of the training volume maybe like 30, 40% slow strength over the week is. Yeah, somewhere around like that. Maybe like 10, 20% of the training volume. It's, it's hard to give it that percentage because you could say it's just like the amount of time that you're doing it. But the cost of slow strength is super high as well. Like usually making an athlete grind for 20 to 40 seconds of super heavy work during the training week. You can completely them for the week, maybe for the week ahead for the game on the weekend. Like, okay, we're going to do max deadlifts. You're going to lift this weight. Okay, yeah, you almost got it. Go again. Okay, yeah, you know, let's. Maybe it's a bit heavy. Let's take 8 kilos off and do it again. Like you do that with an athlete, the very big chance they're going to get injured. Very big chance they're going to, they're going to be rubbish. Some won't be. Some are more robust. But like grinding on an athlete's nervous system with really heavy slow strength stuff on the weights, on the movements where you can lift a lot of weight. If you grind hard on the bicep curls, it doesn't really matter that much. Why is that? It's because even though the brain is sending maximal signal to that muscle, there's only so much electricity that can go down that path to that one muscle. It's like if we practice like maximal, take it to the extreme right, maximal finger squeeze, huge nervous arousal. You can do that. You might damage your finger tendon if you go too, too crazy. But you can't fatigue your nervous system because it's not a big enough receptor of the energy that's coming out of your neurological system. Whereas if you're doing a deadlift, that's why bench presses are a good exercise, according to Charlie Francis, for sprinters. He loved bench press and he had, you know, one of the fastest sprinters of, of, of the time, of Ben, you know, Ben Johnson. Maybe he was just as fast as the guys. Now, like they say that the tracks have changed and such. Regardless, he used bench press as a neurological priming exercise. Because you can put so much of your neurological force into a bench press. You can contract the whole body. There's a massive weight compared to standing press. You will get more fatigued off a bench press neurologically than off a standing press. So you can max out the standing press, grind the out of the rep and you won't feel the same level of fatigue the day after or later in the day, as with the bench press and then deadlift again, like even more. Some people say that you can grind more on squats and it doesn't mess you up too much. But my experience is that you, you fatigue a lot with the squats as well. So this makes more sense to me and it's a big idea in the world at the moment because how much, how much skills training is the average athlete doing? The people who are fit, how much skill training do they do per week? Yeah, like zero. Like it's. If they get the shoes done up then, then they pass their skill work for the week. But a lot of people are opting out of shoelaces because it's just too much skill work for them. They go in Velcro, they're going slip ons because it's too much effort to do the laces these days. It doesn't make any sense in the athletic world. It doesn't make any sense from the child perspective. It doesn't make any sense. I'm glad I got one there. Manuel. Imagine a child who only wanted to work strengths. The child would be insane. Like it doesn't, it doesn't exist in the, in the child world. It's all skills and the strength is just a byproduct of playing ninja warrior games and swinging and whatever. Like their strength work is only play and skills. So we need to think of it as a supplement and, and as a, as a small part of, of what we're doing. If there's injuries, then like spending more time on force as we get older makes more sense to bring energy into the muscles, bring flow into the body and it's. Yeah, it plays its part. But from, from my perspective, like if, if we're, we're talking about these ratios like Anthony's there on the call with the WEC ratio of like 4 to 1, unilateral to bilateral, they sort of talk about this, this ratio. I've been thinking about that with skills as well. I'm probably doing something similar with Skills. I'm like four part skills, one part strength is about what my training weeks are at the moment. But for people who consider themselves time poor, it's a good poverty to get out of. But if you, if you only have half an hour a day to train, then I think like maybe one to one makes, makes some sense. Skills to, to force. But Moving more towards 4 to 1 as you have the opportunity to do that. Yesterday I probably did four hours of soccer. I did soccer for an hour and Then I did tennis for an hour. I did basketball and then I did lots of just different. I did ropes and Swiss ball and, and like no real fatigue from it. Good fun in the zone, you know, music on playing and I played, played with Eden going across the blocks and everything. So this is a bit of an overview programming the skills. It doesn't make sense to put more than five minutes into the same kind of drill. I messaged Wolfgang Schulhorn yesterday manual. I've been thinking about reaching out to him since I first heard about his work. But I emailed him last night, yesterday afternoon with a few questions and just you know saying that I really appreciate his work in the. Wolfgang Schulhorn's work. In that last lecture that Neil's shared. It's in the comments of that video that he shared about biomechanics. Did anyone check it out? I have to put the link up. Did anyone check out that the end of biomechanics lecture that Niels Nuremberg put up. It's pretty, pretty cool. That woman who did that lecture is a horse trainer and robotics like software programmer. So she's coming at skill development from the area of robotics and programming through computers which is a really interesting perspective and then horses which is another super interesting perspective. Often to find the best like looking at people who are coming at it from a different angle is really, really powerful. But Wolfgang commented in the thing of like yeah, you know I was the first one to, to share this 20 years ago. All this other stuff that's come after, you know, in science you go back to the first person who said it and give them credit and, and he put his own lecture up there. It's a really good lecture. It's about an hour and a half long and it's a good overview. But then the questions that come in at the end show the people who don't understand what he's talking about. Point was in that lecture there's research about brain states and getting deep into flow state. So the maps of the brain energy, the energy waves that are coming from the brain. You have delta theta, alpha, beta waves I guess the, the gamma is, is the fastest, the fastest wave but you get more of the theta waves like slower waves, alpha waves and, and theta waves. When someone's able to relax into high skilled movement. So adults get more the ability to use beta brain waves. Children like Eden doesn't have the ability to have these beta really fast brain waves. So you can't get the frazzled brain of watching too much TikTok kind of like Hyper, hyper brain thing. His brain just doesn't go that fast yet. He's always in a deep meditative state as far as, like the rate of the brain, like frequencies, neurological firing. Does everyone know about that, that side of things? It's something that Schulhorn's speaking about. Bruce Lipton speaks about it quite a lot with reprogramming the brain. Like if you get into reprogramming the subconscious mind, what Liam was talking about on Friday's call, it's important to relax into that stuff. And Bob Proctor gave us a custom meditation in his voice that had my name in it at the high ticket event of his that I went to. So it was a lot about, okay, being able to relax and slow the brain waves to then be able to get into thinking about who you really want to be and programming your mind in the direction you want to go in the. The interesting thing is that with skill training, he's showing that you can get into this really deep brain state of slower brain waves. And the best example they have in their research is with skipping. So they do 10 second intervals of skipping and every 10 seconds they change what they're doing and within three minutes they were getting into this deep brain state. And the same, you're saying like the same brain state can be achieved in half an hour with running through, relaxing into running, but you can only run for. What are you saying? Lecture. You can only run for half an hour, you know, so many times. But three minutes of skipping you can do multiple times a day. I found that really interesting and that was one of the questions that I asked him. Like, with skipping you have like quite high frequency of actions, so there's multiple actions per second and then you're changing the drill every 10 seconds. So you've. And you've got this dual tasking which Jorge spoke about in his neurogym lecture. Really powerful one as well, if you missed it. A lot of the guys have listened back to the recording of the neurogym lecture. It was like three, three or four lectures ago. Calls ago. Yeah, this. Every 10 seconds plus dual tasking. Dual tasking is, is one of the most important things for improving, for brain building and for like creating this change in brain state. So when you're jumping the rope, you have to jump, but you also have to move the hands and then you're also like starting to do different foot patterns or turning. So it becomes dual. There's like more than one task going on at the same time. So when we do our other skills, it Makes sense to Change every, every 10 seconds. Like it's a good general rule of like change every 10 seconds. But if it's not as high frequency as skipping, then I don't think we're going to get the same brain results. So to make soccer that high frequency, you have to stand really close to the wall or have multiple balls. Like we sometimes do it here with like two or three balls between two people or like three balls between three. So then you kind of like there's a, there's a lot going on, there's a lot of input and you keep yourself moving with the juggling you can you getting that multiple actions per second, like high frequency. When I'm training with the, the rackets and the tennis stuff, I'm doing a lot of stuff like 1 meter from the wall. But then I'll, I'll work back as well like 3, 4 meters from the wall. I think as soon as you slow down the frequency of the actions, you're not going to get that brain state is my guess. I want to talk to him more about that and explore it more. So then, yeah, when we're programming our skills work, going for that ultra density of the inputs. So in the new athlete program, in the overall template that I've put together, you have three different movements that you do each day and it works on a three day cycle. So you, you do them, you do the series 1, series 2, series 3 and then you do series 1, series 2, series three again. So that, that's your week of skills training. And then if you have another day like I had yesterday, just whatever, whatever you want more stuff. Or, or not. If someone's training three days a week, they'll just do 1, 2, 3. The Schulhan Schulhorn again, like his research is showing that it's better to have days off and stuff, which is kind of crazy as well because all the high skill sports they practice every day and I'm really curious of what can happen with that. Maybe just if it's basketball and you want to practice, if you, maybe you put a big emphasis on dribbling one day and then a big emphasis on passing the next day and then a big emphasis on shooting the next day kind of thing like where you're still training the skill every day. But yeah, more, more questions, more thinking to do with that. I'm curious of how it'll be for me with or you know, and for everyone. If you're a beginner, I'm sure it's going to work fine to 1 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. But yeah, I'm wondering if to pick up the five ball juggling and even handstands like I've had great results with every day. Right. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens with that style and then yeah, with the. So with the programs are set up like this with the skills first. I also like the skills first because you switch on the brain and you know, you set the mood for the session. I also like it because it has the least physical buy in. So if you're feeling a bit stiff or sore, then you get everything moving first. And yeah, for me it is also first priority. It's the most important thing long term. And so yeah, it's the first piece and then the second piece is like a strength flow. I kind of got this idea from Coach wooden, who's a PICP level 5, like level 5 in the Poliquin system. Champion powerlifter. He's presented for us a few times. He's got a gym in Manchester in England. He's Polish coach, very thoughtful guy, very spiritual. He trains for about 40 minutes to an hour before he does his A lift. So in the Poliquin system of programming, the A series is, you know, your big lift for the day, your squats or if you're doing like power cleans or snatches, that would be your first lift of the day. That would be your A series. Poloquin didn't really do like general physical preparation in the way that others did. Like he spoke about strongman and there was a book about strongman and stuff, which is a good gpp, general physical preparation. But yeah, it wasn't really there so much. But then when I heard Coach Wooden be like, yeah, like I prep everything that's going to be involved in the big lift. I'll do like some sets on all the key areas to get the body going ready for that. And it doesn't. You don't go to fatigue. You're not trying to like train the thing to the end point, but you're trying to get it ready. So he'll do his rotator cuffs and stuff. Before he would do bench press, he would do like some trap 3 raises or some power raises, these kinds of things. And it makes sense to me to, yeah, to, to do this work. It also goes with what Ben Patrick speaks about of having his best dunks after the game. So the game would be first and then his best dunks would come, come after that.

Right.

It's against the traditional. The traditional paradigm is like start with plyometrics start with your maximum strength stuff. Even in the west side method they first did the, the max lift and then they went into the repetition method stuff. So it was always programmed at the start of their sessions. But my guess is that Louis and probably the other guys like turn up before, get themselves ready and it's on them to do that themselves, their responsibility and then into it. Matt Wenning, who trained west side barbell. Matt Winning is a really well respected strength coach, is a good one to check out if you, if you want to improve your strength knowledge. He used to train. I think you were talking to me about it, Kev. Hey, yeah, winning warm up. There you go. Yarns Jan, put it in the box as we're speaking as well. But he was trained in the west side system and he was doing like effectively. He's doing like west side repetition method before he does his heavy stuff like the sets of 20 and stuff like that's west side thrown through higher. West side is, is known for going higher repetitions on the assistance work than most other systems. Most systems don't go into the super high rep work. Louis loves like five minute sets and stuff. For MMA fighters he loved super high repetitions even though he did a sport that was just about one repetition and he was all about your one repetition needs to be great. Like in rugby you get one shot at making the hit. If you, if you make the hit good, but you don't, there's no second rep the next time you do it. It's a different position, different situation. So he was a big fan of singles and talking to athlete like that. I'm a huge fan of singles as well. Like my program revolved around singles at the Roosters and I've done a lot of them over the time. I love doing the, you know, 10d1, 5d1. So point is there's then that 10 minute after the skills, then you've got a 10 minute block of like strength flow in the programs. So this could be a Swiss ball flow, this could be a barbell flow, this could be soft acrobatics, this could be even like clubs and that kind of stuff. It could be with a dumbbell, it could be with the sandbag, but you pretty much move continuously for 5 minutes, for 10 minutes and get yourself ready for whatever the major lift is going to be that you're going to do there. The more I train and the more I think about this stuff, the less I am a fan of rest periods. I think that it just doesn't make any Sense to be sitting around programming gaps between things with assistance work and stuff. Like it doesn't make any sense. We cut the space out between max effort sets with dense and it's, it's good, it works. Louis Simmons again, like if you haven't seen his documentary on Netflix, I don't know if it's still on Netflix, but there's west side versus the world. You know, dive in on Louis Simmons. If you're a strength coach, if you're a coach, if you're interested in force, Louis Simmons is the man. He's number one. He's the godfather of force. His. He only had long rest periods between three sets a week. The rest of the time you keep, keep moving. The time where you got a rest period was after you did your 95% set, before you did your 100, 102% set. And then if you did another set then you get another rest period. But like there's, there's only rest between these, before these maximal lifts. And there were only three maximal lifts on upper body for the week and three maximum lifts for lower body. Like three total repetitions per week of super heavy. There were singles and you did super heavy single, so you got one to three heavy singles. Everything else was under 90, which is really not, not that hard on the nervous system. Everything else was high tempo. When they were doing their speed work on the other days it was pretty much on the minute. If you watch his videos and stuff, when they're doing their banded bench press and their banded squats, which is their other main lifting day. So they had two maximal strength days, one for upper body, one for lower body. And they're two speed days, which is one for upper body, one for lower body. And then they did repetition method every day. Repetition method was about keeping the size on and about preparing the muscles and the structure to be better for those next max maximum days. So wherever the weakness was in their max, they would do all their repetition stuff around that. So yeah, doing the, doing these flows, you target your weaknesses, you keep moving, you hit a lot of different positions, you use a lot of off center loading with the differential strength. The first time I've actually seen differential strength was in that presentation that I was just talking to you about though. I'll put the link up for it, but it's, it's in the comments of that biomechanics lecture which has been posted. Maybe someone wants to post a link here for those that are on live. But you can see someone doing differential bench press in there and what they Found with the study was that they got the same strength results with using 60 loading as using 80%. So 60 using differential was. Got the results of 80% using non differential. But you got to get so much more resilience out of the differential stuff. And a lot of people have played around with this idea over the years, but it's not never really caught on. Like no one's doing it on Instagram that I can see the idea of the off center loading and yeah like lifting the weight outside of normal realms. Like people do it as a joke sometimes in like viral content. But yeah, it's like there is research on it that it decreased the injury rate of a basketball team. They had their injury rates from the previous year and then the injury rate was halved the next year by using differential strength training. And the bench press video, which is in the clip I was talking about, like he's moving it off center, lower on the body, letting one side come down. Like he's pressing it all over the place basically. And Niels did the same thing with his squats. He put an example of it up in the chat. This fits very well into that flow block before your main lift. I'm not saying you have to do your main lift like that and I'm not going that far just yet, but loading in different ways, changing the stance, changing the hand position, getting out of the center with a bit lighter load makes, makes a ton of sense. And yeah, I've been training like that with Tamir as well and it's fantastic. Like it feels great. You feel really prepared then and then you go into your main force effort for the day. I'm a big fan of the one lift per day. Dan John had a program one lift per day. It was yeah, seven day, six day cycle. And he would run it for like three weeks just doing one lift per day. And he saw that a lot of people hit their best all time strength numbers within three weeks by just doing one lift per day and focusing on that lift. Doing between 5 minutes and 20 minutes on your main lift makes sense. Slight variations between sets also makes sense. So when Louis Simmons was doing the bench press day, they would use three grips and then they would use other little variations from week to week as well. So on their max effort day in the heavy press ahead of his squat, they never repeated the same, they didn't repeat the same lift. They might do a different lift all year round, like every, every week a different lift. And that's, that's how I'm, I sort of did that at the Roosters, in, in the sense of one week we would snatch and the next week we would front squat, the next week we would back squat and we kept changing the main lift. People talk, people told me I was crazy like that. Like we're going to get more injuries because of it because it's too much stress on the body to change the main lift. But we use the least number of players compared to any, any team and we won the championship and we set an all time record for zero scorelines for opposing teams. Like maybe it was dangerous and maybe it did increase the risk and I was just freaking lucky. I don't know. Maybe because we did squats, you know, made, I made everyone rest in the, in the deep squat. Maybe because I made everyone work on their pancake, maybe that's why I didn't break them. Even though we did the riskiest type of strength training according to the experts. But yeah, I'm a big fan of changing the lift in some way from week to week. Shulem talks about in a sport you never get the same action twice. There's always a difference in the situation. Even if you do, even if you're like, oh, the gymnastics bar is exactly the same and I'm trying to do exactly the same thing, it's still always a bit different. And attempting to just do the same reps over and over again, it doesn't make that much sense, especially for, for a new athlete or for someone who wants to be more ready for chaos and is thinking about strength training for life and for multiple sports. Like doing, making slight variations in the repetition type by, you know, moving the hands around, moving, changing the body position, using different types of loading. Yeah, especially like using different repetition types. I think is, is the best way to go differential more so even than like the way they're doing the bench press. Like I think more about like playing with the tempos and stuff is something that I've played with a lot of like doing the drop catch repetitions and elastic styles and, and those, those elements. But yeah, and then the, the last piece I have at the moment, well, we have 1, 1 jump per day. So having a style of jump for the day and just doing like three to five jumps as a minimum every day, maybe like 20, 25 at the most, but a little bit of jumping every day. I wish I would have put that into my system like 20 years ago just, just to do a little bit of jumping every day. Like Marcel saw how awkward I was about jumping to the precision jumps and just like feeling like, such a big deal to jump and land on a target. Because it's been so long since I did it, you feel like an old person. So, yeah, having having a few jumps in there every day. I haven't actually put that into the app yet, the jumps part, but I, I mentioned it in the slack, and then with the stretching, I've put together three days of stretching as well. I'm a big fan of giant sets for the stretching. So giant sets are a bodybuilding technique popularized by Milos Sachev. Charles Poliquin kind of popularized him. He used lots of different movements for the same muscle group in bodybuilding to get better results. So a lot of bodybuilders would do tons of sets and, like, the same exercise over and over. Milos used more variety of exercises. So he would do 10 exercises back to back with about 10 seconds between them, so not much rest. A lot of different exercises, same themes keep popping up all over the place. And then he would go like, they would do one of these giant sets, and then he might do five of them as the session, which is like crazy, crazy amounts of volume when he was doing generally like 10 to 20 repetitions per exercise. So you would do like 200 reps and then rest a few minutes and then do another 200 reps and then rest a few minutes and then do another 200 reps and then rest a few minutes and then do another 200 reps. They were doing sometimes like, five sets of this on legs. Like, you're just like, smashing leg press and then smashing squats and then smashing knee extensions and smashing lunges and then going back and doing again like. It was a brutal, brutal hypertrophy method. But what I found is that for stretching, it's, it's, it's. It's a, It's a better method. It's a great method, I think, for stretching rather than doing, like, a lot of sets of the same lines of force for the fascia and all that. That I don't think you want to be hitting the same lines of force all the time, tissue lines, which is the same idea that we're talking about with differential strength, but going more differential with the flexibility, hitting different lines of force, and then using. When you use different mobility exercises for the posterior chain. Like, it feels very different when you do a hamstring stretch and you do, like, the one with the leg up to the front, it feels completely different to if you bend forward from standing, which also feels completely different to if you lay down on your back and lift your legs over behind your head. They're all posterior chain stretches, they all stretch the hamstrings but they feel completely different because they're different lines of fascia pull. So yeah, I think this is like, this is the way that I've set the mobility stuff up. The first one is just like more body weight. The second one will be more strength like with loaded stretches and the third one will be more like ballistic and speed more towards the Marinovic style stretching stuff. But yeah, this, this is sort of where we've come to with the new athlete template. And yeah, it's, it's laid out in the app. You can see it in programs. There's more to go in there in terms of like the follow along videos for you guys to be able to like see it and watch it, what I'm actually talking about. But most of you would know most of the stuff. Welcome to ask any questions if you, if you're checking it out. And then as far as like week to week and month to month, the main thing is to have variation. And yeah, each month it changes in terms of the, the main skills for the month. So it's on a three month cycle. So there's 27 skills, there's nine key skills each month, three months of those skills, but you could easily have significantly more than that as well. If you're training for a specific sport, I would still recommend doing it like this as the base and then do your extra hour of specific sport on top of that. If you're a tennis player, you still do 15 minutes of new athlete skills each day. You do mobility stuff, you do your strength stuff. Yeah, this is, this is how it's set up. It's set up for the time pour, like to be able to do it all in half an hour if you need to. Or like really it's like 45 minutes. Then if you put in the jumps and the stretch and a little bit of time around the strength stuff it's like 45 to an hour which is good. But for you as coaches, I would love to see you putting in an extra hour or two on top of that. More skills more probably taking your time a little bit more with the strength stuff. And then yeah, the other piece that I didn't mention would be like custom 5 to 10 minute protocols around injuries as well or issues in the body. And yeah, within that that would be kind of like your, your range training, atg, poliquin assistance stuff like more targeted strength work for specific injuries or areas you want to bring up. If you have Injuries or if, like, force is really your focus, if you're a strength power athlete, then like setting up a custom extra 10, 20 minutes around. That would also make sense. But yeah, which still. You could still get it done in under an hour. And yeah, this is. This is the big idea. There's a few comments I saw coming in. I was just getting into rhythms. I just kept it rolling. But, yeah, what. What questions are coming up here? What did you learn? If you want to share something that you learned into the comments or something that you're going to do some more research on, I know there's a lot of different references. They probably best to watch it back a couple times, go and look up the stuff, ask questions.

Do you think there's day when you're talking about the oscillation, right. And then you got, say, a certain speed that you're talking about with the football and then you got the rope. I was curious about, like, say if you put in an external oscillation of, say, binaural beats or something, and you're entraining yourself while you're doing an activity. Have you looked like much into that effect?

Yeah, that's something I want to talk with Wolfgang more about. There's definitely something with the music and no one's really talking about it. There's a whole product, I think, an industry in customizing music to go with training to get the kind of brain states and waves that you want. I've been listening to classical quite often lately while I'm training, loving it. Yes. I was pumping the classical while I was doing my skills. And yeah, I really enjoy it. I love the way the brain makes the. Makes it. It always sets the mood, sets an energy. I train. I trained to Incubus for the first time in a long time. I could train to rock music that I used to listen to when in my late teens, early twenties. Make Yourself album, if you. If you're checking it out, it's a. One of their earlier ones, is much better than the later stuff, but it's. It's different. Like, it was fun and it was kind of. I could feel like the thoughts that are coming up and the way my mind is going. The energy that goes with wasn't as expansive and. And I started having, like, bigger ideas about everything and, like, the energy is just different. When I went to Tchaikovsky, I went to after that, Symphony Number five. Spotify. Yeah. I want to go deeper in this. I think it's huge, Kev. But the movement itself is a very powerful brain tool. I think it's probably the most powerful. But music is huge and undervalued. Underestimated. Light probably fits into that equation as well. You go and watch the sunrise and it does something to you. You know that music's doing something to you. You know the sunrise is doing something to you. You know that movement's doing something to you. So finding the ways to, to optimize it and makes. Makes some sense. It feels different training outside compared to training inside. For sure. Yeah.

Even on that point, there's oscillation with the circadian rhythm with the oscillation within that's a bit slower because the circadian cycles all day still oscillating with a rhythm. It's just the rhythm is a bit slower whereas training's a bit faster. And then same with the. There's a guy that I saw and he was making programming to do with muscle types and then whatever muscle type you were training, he would have the music towards that muscle type. And I was like, I've never seen anyone ever think about that. And then I was like, that's super interesting. So he took Pollock in, he took the fiber type training and then aligned music to that fiber type, which I thought was, you know, pretty cool.

Yeah, I wonder what, what kind of music he was, you know, what, what was he doing with it?

I, I don't, I don't know exact like type of music, but I think it was like jenning down to like vibration and like what that elicits for someone. Like I'm pretty sure, you know, if you're doing like a, a 10 second eccentric on a, on a squat for multiple reps, maybe it's gonna be different than you know, you pump in a spe. The Louis Simmons style. And then actually there's another question there with like I was reading with the Magical Child and he was talking about like mental retardation is due to not having enough new stimuli for a baby. And then the effect with differential learning. Do you see that as you were re igniting that growth that you would have got at an earlier stage of growth that like there's always a continuous process of expansion?

Yeah, yeah. Wolfgang Shawhorn's saying it a lot that you can still get. There's neuroplasticities there until the 90s and we should, we should work on it at any stage. I wonder how much of that whole cascade of development like Magical Child, it's, it's very sequential that it's meant to happen at that stage and you can't really get back to it if it doesn't happen at that stage in development. That's what I, I'm understanding from John Pierce's work. But yeah, I, I think that's one of the biggest ideas that's neglected in sports right now is everyone says you should do gymnastics as a child. No one's getting their athletes doing gymnastics. There's bits of cartwheels and stuff in some programs. Wrestling 100, they're doing gymnastics. They're doing acrobatics, especially some places more than others. But yeah, there was a, the place next to Dagestan. There was a video that popped up the other day. They were doing acrobatics with their 6 and 8 year olds. Wrestlers. I'd never heard of that in Ganesh. It's called I never even heard of Ingamesh. It's the state next to Dagestan. And Georgia's just there as well. Georgia has great wrestlers. But yeah, they're doing gymnastics. We need to, we need to be doing that at every age and we should, we should keep progressing it. If you have a trampoline, if you have a Swiss ball, whether it's just on the floor, like there's always, there's always a way to do it. I don't. Yeah, it's never too late. Like, it's never too late. Especially dancing as well. Like dancing's huge one. You can just get, you can get into it through flow rope and then skipping ropes as well. Starting to get more into like the footwork of skipping ropes. Still. We still haven't really dived into the agilithm stuff. I've shared it a couple of times. Manuel shared it with me. It's a Japanese footwork system. It's kind of like speed ladders, but then to music and with more complexity. Yeah, we need to, we need to get into these fundamentals if we miss them as children because we grew up in a culture that Irish dancing isn't a thing as much in Ireland as it used to be. Like every, every culture had it before and everyone in the village did the thing, thing that we lifted stones and we danced because like that's what you did at the village festivals and you grew up seeing it and people played the guitar every night. Like the genius was built into the village and, and, and that was the village culture and everyone did it and you know, we missed out on that. Switzerland had the, the stone throwing and stone lifting and like the wrestling. You can see the Swiss, the Swiss ancient sports and the music that went with it, the dancing that went with it. Everyone was in on it. It wasn't like today of like, choose which kind of thing you don't opt out of your village. Like, there's no option to that. And it's very dangerous at that time to go wandering the landscape and just try and turn up to someone else's village or a different language group or whatever. Like, that's why the Marco Polo story is so powerful. Heading out, just hoping you don't get killed. Like, What? Talk about the three to four tasks there, Anthony with the rope. Like, how do you think about the different tasks he's coming back over?

Yeah, so at any given time, I'm at least doing two. So whether that's focusing on changing the eyesight or changing the footwork and not actually focusing on the rope itself. So the rope is always your one, because that's like, if you think about a 4 to 1 ratio, it's always that one. So then it's like, okay, thinking about all the other things that you can apply outside of that. And that becomes a. Almost a meditative task in itself because you're not actually thinking about flowing the rope at all. You're thinking about, I look over here or I need to move my foot over here. So you're thinking about these different positions in space which then drops you down into that state, that meditative state, because. And then you might think about. You might have. So a lot of the time I've got Bob Proctor in the background, or I'll have someone talking. So I'm focused on that whilst changing position, whilst then thinking about hand position and foot position. And then simultaneously there might be a bird or something in the distance. So then I'm focused on that. So that's this constant change, but you're not actually thinking about flying the rope. That's just happening. So then you've got all this different stimulus going on in different directions. And I think by doing that, the actual skill work is ingraining in that. That higher brain state, you know, because it is very meditative at that point. You're not actually thinking, oh, where do I go with the rope? And you're focused on the rope. You think. Yeah, you're just delving into all these other. You might be thinking about philosophy or something, but the rope's just spinning, you.

Know, do you change patterns instinctively a lot with that, or do you find yourself doing the same, like, pattern more?

So the one. Yeah, the way that I've done it with that system is that it's. It's not focused on patterns, it's like, the patterns sort of come to you as you move. So if you focus on, like, changing your eye position and you look in a certain direction rather than thinking, oh, I'm going to do a throw, it's like, okay, if I look over there, how do I then get my hand to follow where my eyes have gone? So then you create a throwing action just by your hand following the direction while the rope spinning. So you have to self organize to get to that different position. So there's obviously the fundamentals, like the basic patterns and stuff like that. But then once you, you can get those directions and basic patterns, like, you can just start to explore based off of changing the input rather than thinking about the pattern. Yeah, like, if I move my foot to the right and I turn and I pivot, now I have to self organize with the rope to change direction that way.

Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Also talks about, like most athletes, you need to get them out of bed. Was the way he, he described it in the Q A thing yesterday is like, what he's saying is like, if you want to put a child to sleep, you read in the book that they've, you've already read to them 20 times, so there's nothing new there. So the brain can go to sleep so you can relax and you can switch off. So that's how most athletes want to train. They want to do the same thing that they've always done so that their brain can relax, they can switch off and just chill. But he's saying you need to get the athlete out of bed, so you need to keep giving them the challenge that's like, oh, fuck, like I'm stimulated here. There's no way I'm going to sleep. Like, for the child, if you change the story, then they're all of a sudden, they're like, what's, what's going on? What's going to happen next? So that's the, that's what he's talking about. And I feel like sometimes with the rope that I just do the same pattern too much. I like doing the same thing. And I'm like, sometimes, yeah, need to get myself out of bed. I do that with the, the footwork. But, yeah, just thinking about, like, more places to go with it, I guess, to keep that freshness. And then same with all the skills. Like, it's easy to fall into the groove of like, you know, what did I, what I really challenge myself with today or this week with the juggling or with the handstands or.

Yeah, I try to approach everything like you would have seen on past calls, like, whenever I'm training, I'm trying to never do as much as possible. It happens, you know, but as much as possible, doing different and trying to explore because, like, at some point, you hit gold each day, you know, like, throughout the week. But, yeah, that as far as the rope goes, like, that's why people get bored, and then they get. They go off of it for, like, months at a time. Like, I never get bored with it, man. Like, every day is a new thing. It's awesome. And then I. Then I go, okay, because it's not about the rope. It's about the way that I'm doing it. I can apply that to everything after that throughout the day. So each day is a new adventure.

What about for you, Marcel? You've been deep on the rope as well. Your deepest love is the parkour and flips. Do you find yourself going away from it at all? And, like, what are your thoughts about the challenge and the dual tasking?

Yeah, I think with all of the skills, they just become not fun if you're doing the same thing over and over, and it just becomes less and less engaging. And then for me especially, it's harder to make myself and go and do it. Easier to skip a session if I'm not bringing anything new or not have a new idea of new things I want to try. So, yeah, it goes with all of the skills, and for me, it's with the strength training as well. Like, if I have a very rigid program and I just, like, want to just increase. Increase the weight or increase the reps every session from week on week. Always find myself falling off after, like, week three or week four because it just becomes so boring, and I don't want to do it. So in a way, like, going after the sessions intuitively is something that I enjoy the most when I'm training is always changing, changing the session up a little bit. Always trying something bit new, something bit different is. Yeah, I think that just makes the training more fun for life as well. Definitely had that with the rope in, like, the last maybe six months that I haven't really been exploring it a lot. Haven't been looking into much other rope stuff and haven't been training it a lot myself because I've been focusing on all the other skills. And then every time I picked up the rope, I kind of just did what I knew and just stopped being fun.

But.

Yeah, I think thinking about the footwork with the rope, and I was thinking a lot about what you said that you can get most of the benefits of the rope with the basic patterns. So I've been training that yesterday a lot with the, with the rope, but just, just, just going with the overhand and the underhand and trying to bring all these variations. And I found all three follow along for the, for the course with the rope and 12. Trying to introduce these variations. And it was a fresh breath into my practice as well.

When are the best sessions, best strength sessions, best skill sessions? What's the immediate answer that comes to you of which are the best sessions.

Best sessions? But I'm in a like, sort of a flow state, like a meditative state of like maybe one thing, like maybe the juggling was, was working really well. And then I get really inspired. I feel like really strong. I want to try the handstands and, and then getting really strong on the handstands. And it kind of flows into all of these other, other moves that then spiral afterwards. And often the best, the best session for me is when I don't have a set plan for the session, when I maybe have like a rough direction of what I want to be training, but I kind of keep it very loose and jump into the session and just have fun with my body and, and, and feel what feels good. It's a. Hard to sort of put on paper or put into words.

Yeah.

What about you guys?

For me, it's always, always with, with someone else. You know, when you're with the skill stuff, it's like playing back and forth with the, with the tennis, with the soccer. Like, Lucas and I played Thomas's. Tom's been living with, with Lucas, their, their best, best buddies in Switzerland. I had about, I don't know, maybe like 90 minutes playing soccer with Lucas here in the gym the other day and just always changing the game. This and that little tennis game, juggling, you know, counting up the numbers and yeah, for me, I love it when it's just like, goes on and on and just doing different stuff. Had a session like sitting on the floor with the table tennis rackets with Pranav while. And Tamir and yeah, juggling the table tennis ball between us. And there was no rules, no real outcome. Like a lot of time we didn't even speak and just like following each other's lead and just playing around with stuff. And for me, I love that. And it's almost the same thing with the weightlifting. Sometimes it's more directed by its nature. But yeah, we had some really nice sessions where it's like snatch and we just keep putting more weight on the bar and just. Yeah, just playing around with it. We did it. Yes. The few days ago with the jerk behind the neck. Jerks and like it's. Yeah, for me it's always like the. With someone else. Last year we trained sandbags, a few big sessions and like wrestling with the 100 kilo bag. And it's. It's like I. I still remember the session because it's like the group dynamic comes around the thing. For me, that's the best. Just the vibe of the thing and like, yeah, we're going for more. We're jumping higher, whatever it is. You see, like the skill levels going up and the force is going up and doing a little bit more than what you think you would normally do. That's, That's. I love that. I also love practicing skills on my own sometimes. Like with. Just with the music and going for a long time. But the best. Yeah, the best is the. When the group energy is there. I think the best way to get.

That, you go, yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Yeah.

I didn't think of it before when you asked, but now just hearing that from you is I always have the best sessions when I have people around me. And that goes back back to parkour, especially, like hardly ever. I would have a amazing session on my own, but when we were in a group or just with one or two close friends, like, it would always be good fun and inspiring each other into new movements that I wouldn't normally do otherwise. And whenever I trained on my own, it would be more like grinding movements and trying to get a technique down and the reps in.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a bit of the nature of the sport of like kind of daring each other to try the next thing. But the weight training can also be like that. It's sort of. It's good, I think as long as you're not only maximally lifting, grinding on the nervous system, then it doesn't really work that well to kind of dare yourself into the next thing. But when it's speed movements and jumps and weightlifting skills, Riley would know it with footy. Like, all the. Hardly any footy boys can really train that well on their own because they're so used to being always with the team. And it's the nature of footy. Like, you need teammates, you need someone to wrestle against, someone to tackle. But then the gym, you always have that buzz as well of everyone else there and your training partner. Especially if the program's set up well. Then there's. You get so Much energy in the room. Yeah. I don't know if you want to touch on that, Rals, because you. You've maybe done more training on your own than most footy players, I would imagine.

Even now in the off season, like, I've been spending most afternoons just kicking the soccer ball against this wall. It's different, it's fun. But I do miss the environment aspect of passing the footy to another player or stepping to someone. There's so much you can do in my sport that requires, like, someone else through tackling, passing, or even if you're kicking goals. But then again, doing all this other stuff, it's going to help me as an athlete, so I enjoy it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think most footy players don't understand how much they could improve their game on their own or just with one other person. Like, I think it's underdone you think about how much time basketball players spend playing one on one. But, you know, some little kids do it with footy in a way, like, you know, run at me or whatever, like playing with that. But most footy players have a lot of footy players haven't done that much work like that. Maybe they did it as a young person with their father or with their brother or something. But there's.

I. I see it at school as well, where there might be like, five meters of concrete and the kids are playing 2v2 footy. I miss that. I join in sometimes. But. Yeah, yeah, you don't have that at training. You got an open pitch.

Yeah, yeah. You need that. That density of skills. You think about with basketball, how many times they touch the ball. Has everyone seen those. That Peyton Pritchard clip of him dribbling the basketball. Look up Peyton Pritchard dribbling. He's. He's getting like five touches of the ball per second. And you're going to have better hands when you're having more and more contact with the ball. Like, most footy players are only touching the ball. I don't know, you know, 400 times a week or 300 times a week. Like, how many times in a training session does it. Yeah, I don't know how many it is. It'd be interesting to actually start it out. But in basketball, 100, they're touching it like, five times, 10 times, 50 times more per session. And then they always go do like two, three hours of their own skill work on top of whatever the team is. Who does that in footy? Like, it's not part of the culture. But I'm pretty Sure. Cleary's done more of it than anyone else. Like growing up as it being at the footy field and having to be there while his dad was there and, and whatever. Like, I don't know how his childhood was, but I'm sure it was a lot of that. Like I had a bit of it. But yeah, yeah, he's known for being the last one off the field and all that stuff as well. And it's, it's, yeah, it's going to continue to go that way. I asked Wolfgang about the Japanese, his take on the Japanese sports as well. He's, I've heard him talk about it with Japanese martial arts. He doesn't like the way they, they drill and he says like they're overly drill compared to the Chinese. But if you, the more I look into it, the, I'm still going deeper. Like the Japanese, they, they specialize in a sport. They choose one sport and they, they don't mess around with other stuff, but then they train it more different than other cultures with that sport. So they use like a bigger variety of drills. Like they took on, they took not parkour. Marcel. But skateboarding, like us has dominated skateboarding and with a, with a few other Western countries, like since skateboarding started to be a thing. I think it was like around the 80s, right. Like 70s 80s, they started skating the pools in California and all that story of like the skate dogs and everything. Now Japan took on skateboarding and they just, they dominate it. Like the guy bro that won the Olympics. But now there's, there's heaps of great Japanese skaters and it's because they do the same as with the kendama. Like they, they, they practice, they're more dedicated to practice and they use specific variation. But they, they. Yeah, their way of doing things, you can see it popping up in like all the sports. You see how they're doing baseball and how they're doing long distance running. You, like, you watch the high school videos and you can see, okay, yeah, well if they applied that to skating, that's why they're winning. Like the, they're very systematic with identifying like the key capacities that are required and then just getting those capacities up specifically, which I don't think is done very well. I know it's not done very well in rugby. I don't think it's done very well in soccer. Like, obviously there's examples in parts where someone's doing it well or components. But their overall philosophy of skill development in, in Japan is producing more outliers. The boxer that's is still undefeated, is rated in one of the top five boxers in the world today. Had another win the other day. Absolutely dominated a guy who was meant to be the big threat. And yeah, he's changing his stance a lot. And just you just see these elements of skill development, stuff that it's not. Not spoken about, not being done. If you look up how the Japanese are throwing and some it's influenced by work and stuff as well. But these, like, I've shared a bunch of times, the kaza Jav and they're doing a bunch of workshops now. You look at this battery of drills that they're doing for throwing and then you look at the western stuff for like, I want to throw a baseball really hard. And the western stuff is like squat bench, deadlift and throw the ball. And the Japanese stuff is like 800 drills from every joint in the body. It's like, which. Which one's going to produce the most longevity and the best results? The highest paid player in the world is Japanese. They keep winning the junior championships, they won the international championships. So we're wanting to arrive to like, better philosophies of things. So it's not just about hard work. Hard work's always going to be a thing. And I think they're probably best in the hard work, the Japanese dedication, but then there's also the methods and the philosophies.

Oh, sorry, you go.

I know if you've talked. Go for it, it's all good.

No, I was just gonna say, Keith, have you done like intervals with the rope and strength training? Like in between, like doing the dense method or whatever, but like as you rest, using different variations of rope in between the sets.

I haven't. No. Have you?

Yeah, just with weights, like, nothing specific, but just for the feeling. I find that when you do that, you're more aware of your body more consistently. So then when you go to the bar or you go to the. Whatever the weight is, you've got a general sense of more awareness as you go to it. So there's that bigger sense of safety in the movement when you're doing it. That's what I found anyway. I don't like it. It'd be interesting for you to explore with like doing the barbell work and stuff like that there in the gym. See if you notice the difference.

Yeah, you do it like every second minute. Yeah, the dense, like do one minute, rope flow one, and then on the next minute do the strength thing or just during the gaps.

Like, oh, if it was like, if it was like, not really heavy singles, but, you know, singles. It's just like. Or even doubles. And then for your recovery, just doing like one pattern or doing every opposite minute would work.

Yeah, yeah. No, you could definitely put it in. You're just only going to get like 30 seconds or so of rope. But yeah, that's. I'm just curious about how you're thinking about it. Yeah, I'll have a play with it.

Well, it's just because you've always got that. That's the only thing with the rope is like, it's the one tool that's always like feeding back through to your spine, back through to the rope again and going through the body, whereas everything else you're like expressing out through the tool.

Yep, Yep. Give it a shot, Kev.

Yeah. Just on the point of variance, you know. Well, I don't know if it's the same, but it's an observation. Is that like, you'd have less dexterity with the lower limbs than you would upper limbs. So then variance for upper limbs especially, at least it seems in rehab as well, like you'd want way more different variances like shoulder movements and ranges for someone to be training. True. In the rehab stages, then you can kind of dumb it down if it's like a knee. Right. But the thing, the thing is, is.

Like.

It'S more like a cultural question about this of like, is there. What cultures do you know that haven't trained a lot of lower body work that seems like that would be the equivalent of over body dexterity, if that makes sense. So basically have the abilities of upper body, but their lower body dominant of like capabilities. And I know it's probably dances and boxers, but just in case. It's a whole culture.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, soccer as well. But I know Poliquin said that and I, I think it comes. I think it comes a lot from working with track and working with bobsled and stuff like luge. And if you work with really simple sports where it's just about producing a ton of force in a straight line, you know, then it makes more sense. But I think you missed the, the fate and everything. And you know, he said, choose the elastic athlete. Like, so he kind of gave up on developing elastic ability. He had some plyometrics in his system in the level three. I think they did turtle jumps and stuff. But it's not really, you know, what he was doing. I think he knew that it had some value. But he, he loved strength, he loved muscle, he loved slow lifting and so yeah, that's what he did. He also loved weightlifting, but yeah, like it was all kind of secondary and he would bring in other coaches and, but yeah, I think that the, the lower body complexity, I think it's underdone. I think hitting the different angles and different lines of force. Tim Sheaf made a good, interesting video about it that like, the ATG stuff was interesting to him and he was getting some results with it. But it wasn't really until he started pushing the knee, like more towards the inside and more towards the outside on the step ups that he got the result that he wanted. And even using Poliquin, Peterson and Patrick step ups, it's kind of like bringing more variety into the picture. And then, Yeah, I, I, we have more nerve endings in the feet than anywhere outside of the brain. The feet are meant to be able to adapt instantly to tough terrains. If you think about it like when it's life or death, it's not going to be paved. The world wasn't paved until recently. So the feet had to be the smartest part of the body to adapt to whatever's going on. Because if you tripped and fell, you died. If you broke your ankle, you died. Like, it's been really important to have really smart feet and ankles and that run up the leg. But yeah, modern methods haven't emphasized that. Marinovic method, by far the biggest emphasis on the feet. Weck is talking about it and playing with it. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't think his tools are as good as the rest of the stuff that he does for, like the complexity element. There's definitely complexity in standing on the Swiss ball. But. Yeah, I don't know. Cultures, like all the dance in the cultures and just life was, life was complex for the lower leg, so you didn't need it as much in the culture because you're going to be carrying wood and water up and down the mountain. And the mountain was a donkey path with stones all over the place and nothing was really paved or if it was paved, it was paved in the old cobblestones way, which is still more variation with the cobblestones. It's an uneven surface. So even when it was paved, it wasn't flat like concrete and.

Yeah, and then with the Renovich, like, are you mainly like integrating that as, like just kind of the, like as you were saying there, like an hour before, 15 minutes before the, the other, like four. So work like you using that as kind of like a primer of like getting things up and ready or how are you kind of using it.

Yeah, but I don't think about it as much like that anymore as like people talk about, oh, you do juggle between strength sets or you do it as a warm up or primer or. But to me now it is the main thing as much as the strength. Like, it's more of the main thing than the strength. To me at the moment. Like, I'm less interested in what my maximal bench or deadlift or squat is like. I know it has its place and I'm aware that I'm kind of like swinging away from it just in a personal trend in the way I swing with things and I know I'll swing back to it a bit more to some extent. But, like, if I had to choose between doing all the skill stuff that I'm doing or doing the force, I would choose the skills. Like for the rest of my life. If I could only choose one, I would choose the skills because I would probably be just as, almost as good with the force if I was doing like, like parkour and stuff with upper body landings and gymnastic turning on one hand handstand walking. Like, I'm gonna be strong. Where you go the other way and you only do gym, which is what I did for 20 years, and you end up retard. Like, you can't do anything. Like, like it's. If you've got to choose one, choose skill. So which is the primer? Like, I get it that you're a young man. It's not that long since you played rugby. You don't have this sensation of like, oh, my training. You know, I messed up, I can't play with my son now. Like, it's, it's, it's a big wake up call when you've spent your life in the gym and then you realize that you're a retard. Like so. But yeah, the. That was the Marinovic Flow, that podcast that we've both been looking at. Sometimes he talks about, like, sessions are two hours long. You do slant board and then you do pipes and then you do the little wobbly board things, then you skip, then you do the ball work, the Swiss ball work, and then you go do the machines for the Force. I think that's pretty much the flow of how sessions ran in the Moonovich system. And yeah, like around, around two hours long. But you're not going to be fully, you're not going to be drained from that stuff. Like it's all energizing up until even their strength work is more like energizing. Because it's plyometric. Did you see the one that he did talking about the Schroeder system, talking about the Adam Archuleta? It's a. It's a good podcast if you check it out, I think the Nervous System podcast. He did a review of the Archuleta and he's like, yeah, this is what Marinovic was doing, but just using standard gym equipment, because that's a lot of the problem with the Marinavic stuff for most people is like, well, I don't have these tools, therefore, how do I do something that looks something like this? And Schroeder pretty much just changed the repetition types to make it more athletic. There's, like, jumping and landing and going, like, faster with the barbell. So rather than progressing in load, you progress in force. This is one of the biggest ideas, I mean, lately is the force velocity curve that everyone talks about in the strength training world. And when you study exercise science, you go to workshops. There's this idea that you need time to be able to produce more force. So peak force is after like two, two or three seconds when you're pushing, pushing maximally against something. But it's not actually true. Like, the highest forces are in that fraction of a second at the start. That's when the highest forces are produced. Like, if I. If I have to push slowly against the bar, then, yeah, peak force is going to be after one or two seconds. But if I just have to put as much force as I can into the bar and it only has to be for a fraction of a second, I'm going to punch the bar, like, and I can push as hard as I want into the bar with my fists. It's going to be uncomfortable, but it's not going to be like, if I punch the bar because the force is way higher when I punch the bar. So the force velocity curve thing, a bit of a myth. Like, if. If you want to train high force, it's going to be instantaneous. And that's what, you know, Dak performance. That's what Jay Schroeder. That's what Marinovic, like, they are the peak forces is in really short. Like, if you're interested in force, Kev, it's in that really short stuff. You train the longer stuff to change the structure and, like, to get the size that you want. But I've also been thinking about, like, I was talking to this with Mikolai when he was down here. He's just jumped in. He's from. From Poland, came down here with Paul. They got Gyms in Poland. But how much sense does it make to try and tear down the whole structure every week with a ton of eccentric loading? Like it's a powerful tool and doing it 12 weeks of the year like Poliquin did makes sense. But you do these other styles of training and you don't get this massive systemic inflammation and guess what, like you feel better, you can do more skills stuff. This is less strain on the body, less hormonal stress on the body. You don't need to be doing this like, let's tear the whole system down and put on a ton of size all year round for 10 years when you're not actually putting on any size anyway. Like, yeah, there's only so much size you're going to put on and most people don't need that much size or more size. Even if you do want to train for maximum hypertrophy, like you can get some decent results from that, from those other types of reps as well. And yeah, it's not being very well explored or spoken about of like Archuleta wasn't losing a ton of size once he focused on, you know, more higher forced variations of the lifts. But yeah, the highest forces are going to be in those instantaneous like dropping and catching the weight, etc.

Yeah, I mean go is an example of someone that is, that is exerting absolutely tremendous amount of force. But like the musculature is like people might go, he's lacking lack of musculature but the thing is like he's so powerful like if you look at them. So yeah, I get what you mean by force. It's not all in the mostly aesthetic looking thing.

You can't produce the amount of force when you, they say with the triple jump of that like it has to be 15 times body weight force going into the, into the structures. Like that's the only way you could get down. Like no one can handle 17 times body weight squats or deadlifts or anything. So it has to be this fascial system, white stuff, you know, tendons that are doing the job on that the muscles are playing their part. When you push the muscle strength up you, you do go further on the triple jump and, and all these things. Like it's not to say muscles are useless, but the peak forces are in the, in that instantaneous force. And yeah, I appreciate you getting in and doing all the jumps in the app. I, I did a bunch of, I did the triple jumps the other day here, but I'd seen that you'd done them Ages ago. And it's like, yeah, I just should have been doing this stuff a lot earlier. I'm so glad that I'm able to do it again. And it feels good. It's not bothering my back, it's not bothering anything. And yeah, like, I'm getting to a younger position with this system. Like, it's so much better. New athlete is so much better than any way I've trained in the past. And it's, it's continually evolving. I'm always going to be learning. I was speaking to someone yesterday who he just met with investors the other day. So he's an investor in the States and his daughter is a child prodigy tennis player. She's looking to compete on the world stage in the next, you know, seven years. But to be great at tennis, you need to be strongly dedicated to it for a good 10 years, 12 years before you become an adult to be any chance. And, and I've been talking to him about this system and how he thinks about training and that he's like, you know, this is so far ahead of any coach that you can find out there to have these thoughts and these conversations, you know, like, why, why isn't this out there? I was like, well, it's only been since March that I've really been focused on this. Like before that I was doing on common success, helping guys, you know, focusing on businesses for people, like this is a better way to help people have businesses is be the best by a long way. Yeah, and before that it was like the ATG paradigm and like that piece is really important, but it's only a piece. And I always knew that. I'm glad that I helped that piece get out to the world. But he's meeting with another investment banker, another investor in May, and that in that Investor has like 500 million liquid. So he's probably got a billion plus in assets and he's got four children. He's really into soccer. He's going to watch the World Cup. That's why they're going to catch up when he's watching the World Cup. This, this is the best athletic technology. Like there's people who are doing components of it and they're implementing with athletes better and they're getting better results by using specific components of the things we're talking about and being really good with those specific components. But if I go and take control of a rugby team or a soccer team and I have a bigger paradigm and I work on areas that they don't work on yet, my team wins. So this, this happened with the storm, Melbourne storm in Australian Rugby League, where they started to wrestle before the other teams. And for years they had a competitive advantage because they wrestled and everyone else didn't. And so they won and they were doing other things as well. They had a good strength thing and they were cheating in salary cap and whatever reason, but they were like such a dominant team. And there's like, there's so many. There's, there's like multiple areas within this where you get to be way better than other coaches. And if you work with athletes, like, you get to give them advantage that they have against other. It's like, it's like cheating. There's, there's an athlete. Hugo Sanchez was a Mexican soccer player who's the only one to really get out of Mexico and dominate in Europe. He's still the best Mexican soccer player in history. I think it was in the 80s maybe that he went to, to Europe and played and he scored a bunch of goals and he was like winning the goal scorer of the year. He was cheating. How was he cheating? He trained as a gymnast for like, he changed seriously as a gymnast, as a young athlete, and he scored all his goals in the air. He just made everyone else look like, you know, Teletubbies on Valium, as Charles Poliquin used to say was what soccer players look like. He made everyone else look hopeless because he was, he was a gymnast and so he had a massive awareness in the air. Anthony Minichello, you'd know Riley, he's a fullback in the Australian League. Played for a number of years. Bit undersized for his position, but he trained as a trampolinist and they called him the Cat. They called him the Cat because he always landed on his feet. Like he, no matter what position he got into, he could find his way back to the floor. He cheated. He was a trampolinist as a young athlete, so then he had a huge advantage over everybody else in body awareness and he built a career out of that and he built a whole life out of that, that competitive advantage. No one's looking to apply that systemic competitive advantage. Lomanchenko took years off, one or two years off from boxing with his father to take on Ukrainian dancing. You look at Ukrainian dancing, it's, it's mental. It's so far ahead of anything that's being done in the sporting world. Their body awareness and their elasticity, like they're way ahead of sprinters and, and, and every sport. And it was because it was, it was cultural to survive. Like Slavic dances, it's, it means that you don't. The Germans don't come over the hill and wipe out your race. Like that's why you have Slavic dancing. And the Germans had their own system of that and the Irish had their own system of that. And now there's no freaking system. And look what's happening. It doesn't matter whether you dance with the green dress on or the red dress on or whatever for the ladies and you know, whether it's the four kilo stone or the eight kilo stone that you're throwing, or whether it's the Indian club or the Russian club or the tools don't matter, but the culture matters. And that's what we're building. We're building something. The most proven thing all the cultures have known. This sport doesn't know it. You need it for community, you need it for the soul. You need to win the medals. Combining. I want my vision is that Wolfgang unsolved him as well. But Wolfgang Schulhorn will be a consultant for new athlete and help us to do this skill stuff on the next level and have that next level scientific credibility to what we're doing and also get someone like this $500 million is German manual investor like, yeah, let's, like, let's do something with the, with the soccer world and the golf world and the tennis world. And so I just, I need to get to a decent enough level and we need to get to each of us as coaches, as athletes, as leaders in this, get to a decent level in all of these sports as well as have this athletic underpinning. And let's see what happens. Maybe we can't do, maybe it doesn't really work, but my guess is that it does. And my guess is that we can. And I know that we can. I know that it works. I'm so much better at tennis. A month after speaking to this man and talking to him about his, his girl who wants to win the most Grand Slams in history, I see it as my responsibility to be able to converse with him. I need to be playing tennis and I'm not going and playing at the courts all the time. And I need to still work on how I'm setting up my own life. But yesterday I played tennis for an hour and most days I play here and I'm playing against the wall, I'm volleying, I'm hitting my shots. It's a better way. If CrossFit gyms were set up like that, it would have done a better thing for society because it Would have flown more into children and elderly. The CrossFit doesn't suit them that well. They do a good job of it. It's a fantastic movement. But, but skills are first. Skills are the best. If you're fast and you're skillful, you're going to be okay in the gym. You've all seen those athletes, they've never done anything in the gym. They're strong, they're super fast, they're super skillful. And then they just go and outlift everyone in the gym on their first day on certain lifts, not necessarily on squats because it's like the bracing and all that stuff. But be this fast, skillful one and the force will be all right. Be the forceful one. Without the skills and the speed, you're, you're useless. You're a liability. Anyone want to add some thoughts in here? Wrapping it up, manual jumping back in, Do your training. What do you got, Kev?

Yeah, there seems to be like a like this whole procession effect where like you as you're say as an individual, go on your own own journey but by proxy of you getting better and so you turn up to event, you're a better person to play with and be with in that environment. So then the actual level of procession that goes on there, meaning like the cascade effect of cause you improved, you effect affects orders by proxy multiplies out like as a, you know, 10 to the power of 10. Right. And then same with the skill development that you're saying. It's like the more that you're weaving this net, like your consciousness or whatever, it's rather your skill base and then you throw that skill based net out into any situation. You, you're the person more flexibility to adapt to that. So by proxy with you having more kind of nodes in the network, you're gonna turn up as a better player or better adapter than the person that doesn't have those tools. So it's like there's so many leeways here that's not one dimensional, just training that it's cross dimensional across like multiple, multiple domains of life. Because like more than likely, you know, health, wealth, relationship, whatever it might be, it's all going to improve. But I think definitely what you're saying here you can kind of think of like, because people might have that environment that the environment that they get exposure to within a village and you turn up as, oh, I've been doing all this work and all these other people are doing this work and you all come together. That multiplication effect kind of probably brings A lot more meaning. But yeah, after what you're saying, it kind of like reopens my eyes to the importance of this. And one of the things that you said in your other videos was like the ratio effect of four to one. Like do four skills for everyone. Maybe exercise that you do. I just say, yeah, I think you're on the money. Yeah, I gotta change my training. So yeah, that's just closing thoughts.

Yeah. Even with your speed force element, Kev, like train more skillfully with the barbell towards weightlifting stuff and do get into more speed related like sprint drills, complex sprint drills. Like treat that as your skill if you're really interested in force and running fast and like I know you, you know, you've enjoyed that stuff in the past. That's maybe your vision with what you're doing. Like get into the Wolfgang Schulhorn sprint type stuff and be able to do all the different sprint drills with amazing form technique. Like that will play into your strength gains well and like it's. You can tailor it towards where your real interest. L. If. Yeah. But just getting into the, a little bit into the language of others. Like what I'm doing with the tennis is not like that I'm going to be amazing at tennis but it's like I'm in their language enough that they can, they can understand that I relate to them and there's a mutual respect. Like that's the thing that I want from the tennis. It's not the delusion that I'm going to be the world's best player after 50. Like maybe, maybe like maybe I'll go deeper at some point specifically. But I just want to speak their language and be able to converse. Like that's what. And it's a respecting I think as well to if I want to speak to soccer players, like I need to be able to do at least a thousand alternate foot juggles and like otherwise I think I find it disrespectful for a strength coach to like have no touch for their sport. Not disrespect. It's not necessarily disrespectful but it's like it puts a barrier that doesn't need to be there. And I, it's just not in my paradigm of how we should relate to athletes.

If you're providing solutions for those people as well. It's like you, you understand it a lot more than someone that would come into that not understanding it at all. You know.

Yeah. 100. You can't. Yeah. You understand it better.

And.

And then if you're better than them at everything else. That also, if you've gone far enough to be like respectable in what they're doing, but then they can see that you're better than them at every other physical ability, then it's like, okay, well maybe I should listen to this person a little bit more. That's my goal for you guys as coaches. You're better than them at everything else. You're better than the rugby player at soccer, tennis, golf, weightlifting, sprinting. They're better than your rugby. But you at least have some feeling for, for what's involved in that as well. And you know that you can pick things up and you, I think that's, that's, that's coaches that are going to have a, an impact on the world. Get there together. Like, you go, Anthony.

I was gonna say that's pretty much what Kevin's saying there. Like if you get the best at whatever it is you're bringing to the table and, or also these other skills as well, like that multiplication of what you can bring to the table for what someone else might be missing because you can pinpoint it so fast or see something that no one else can see in whatever that movement is. Like with rope, I can, I can spend two seconds with someone and adjust a couple of things and get them moving very quickly. Same with you. With all the years of what you've done, it's like if everyone gets so good at particular things in their own niche, plus the skills, like, and then you all get together, it's just, it's game changer.

Yeah. We need to do some of these calls being practical. We need to do more of these calls being practical so there's opportunity for that. And like we're not. Everyone's going to have big weaknesses. That's fine. Everyone's got strengths as well. And like that being open to that, to exposing yourself is a big, big part of like why good stuff happens. But yeah, we need to, we're all the limit on each other and like the more anyone goes ahead in any area, that's always an invitation to others of like, okay, well that's possible. It happened back in the day with juggling. Like we were three ball juggling and I started to, I, I was four ball juggling and I played a little bit with five and then some of the other guys took the five ball juggling on more seriously. Those were like gym owners in Brisbane and we were having the events and then all of a sudden like these, they were five ball juggling and getting like 50 plus throws. And I was at like five or 10 throws. I was like, man, I gotta, I gotta get in the game here. Like, I can't be getting left behind so far. And you know that, that pushed the whole standard up. Then other guys would come to their first event and everyone was five ball juggling and they were like, oh, like, so they would go super hard at it. And like, the standards were a lot higher in my community in 2017, 18 than they've ever been since. Like, some of the ATG standards are higher, but yeah, in, in a way it's always limited and everyone's always rolling their ankles and it's like, you know, there's something wrong with, there's missing pieces. Like, but we like when we only need like 20, 30 guys to really get into this and push and communicate around that and it's going to create a wave that is like nothing else. It's like CrossFit was a wave and it was, it was Glassman and he had. Ido Portal got involved in the early stage. Coach Summer was involved at the early stage. Rob Wolf was involved at the early stage of CrossFit. And Manuel might know some other people. Scott Hagness, who had CrossFit, Portland, I think was the fifth CrossFit, he was in real movement, super smart coach, still doing really good stuff with CrossFit athletes. But there was, you know, there were 10, 20 smart coaches that were involved in CrossFit in the early days and Glassman had enough vision and things to push it. But most people don't know that Greg Glassman started CrossFit, like even when CrossFit was huge, like no one knew who he was. And it doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't. It's not about any of us from my perspective, like the, we need a new paradigm of athletic development. And like this is a, this is a strong paradigm and it needs the first people to do it for then other people to be able to do it. If you look at the early CrossFit Games events, I think CrossFit had been around for six years or more before the first Games, was it, I think was a while anyway. And then they had their first games up at the ranch, which we've kind of got the ranch here and, and there was, you know, compared to the modern CrossFit athletes, like, they were terrible, but they started the wave. Like they pushed the thing forward of like, hey, what about this? And now it still goes. And CrossFit, you can sort of see where the wave goes now with CrossFit. Like if you like it, cool, if you don't like it, cool. But it's not really going to go anywhere else from what I can see. But yeah, now the, the, like this is a wave worth pushing. The ATG wave was worth pushing. It's. Yeah, it's just that's what I've started, the Slack group and I'm like, I'm basically giving anyone who wants a business a business with this. Like no one. I've never heard of an affiliate program where it's 60% to the partner. It doesn't really make business sense to do that. Your business cost of business is usually like 30 to 40% just with team and advertising and you know, everything. Like you can't really make 60% affiliates work. Doesn't work like that. Network marketing, the most they ever do is, is 50%. But the reason I'm doing it is like I want partners who want to build this thing with me. I'm giving you a business. Let's just, let's be extremely athletic and let's see what we can do. And then you have your high end service on top of that. I understand that for most people getting 100 people into your affiliate business is a huge challenge. For me it's not a challenge at all. I've done it a number of times. It's fucking easy. And then you've got four grand a month. Passive income, not passive income, but you know, income. And then you're at a higher level of freedom. But I can teach you how to do that. I can show you how to do that. Get 100 people in using the program within the next 12 months plus have your high ticket offer and then spend time with each other. Run live events in your local city, lead your city. You know, go and speak to the sports, go and speak to athletes. This is, this is the vision and honest, I haven't even said a lot of this stuff yet. Like this is the first time I'm saying it but I've been thinking about it and planning it in various ways. But we, we can create a wave with this that changes the way sport is done. And if we can change the way sport is done, we can change a lot of things. And it's, yeah, it's not about golf and tennis and basketball and soccer and volleyball. Like these are the kind of the main sports I think we should all have a reasonable base in just in respect to the sporting world. But then it goes into creativity and the artistic side of it as well. The freestyle soccer and the freestyle tennis and all that stuff, like, it's beyond. Beyond boundaries and borders. But speaking to the mainstream language as well as the circus kind of element of it is. Hasn't been done, but it has to happen. What do you got for us, Jonas? You get us a couple of words in between sets or are you on the clock? Nice, nice. Presses, snatch, press.

Hey, guys, you're listening. Listening in all morning. I love what you're saying. I'm really keen of getting started and getting your help with all this. The slack group you're talking about. You have done it before, like getting men together and starting communities. I haven't in that sense. So I need help. Forget rolling.

Yeah.

And I'm like in my town. I'm going around now in different sport and like talking and teaching my kind of way of training. And I haven't like, showed so much on it on Instagram or. I haven't like, reach out to clubs or athletes. It's the mouth. So people hear about me and it's getting. Starting to get traction. So it feels like I'm. We. We in new athlete are into something. The big thing is how could I take this to my sprinters? My athletes that I met meet every day. And. And the thing you said about.

You.

Need to like, put on your brain. Athlete wants to do what they are used to do. And. And even me, I do the cattle swings I've done in some years now. And. And I do the kicking in the beginning I've been doing for a year. So I need to, like, get time to do new things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense, Jonas. So you could end up like, supporting all of the major sports in your town and like seeing the tennis player and the soccer team and they're like, this is going to work for everyone in a way that. That other stuff hasn't worked and doesn't make a lot of the reason sports reject the. The gym and the traditional stuff is because they. They intuitively know it's not. It's too incomplete. Like, there's too much missing and so they stay away from it. Like a lot of sprinters wanting to stay out of the weight room too much. Like, it's smart because they. They know, like, they do too much and it's. It's gonna mess it all up. But if you give them something that actually works that's in harmony with the intuition. Like deep. On a deep level, they know, like, this is working and this is gonna. You know, it's making a difference. Like, it's. Yeah, it's exciting to think of having. And then ideally you start to get the athletes from all the different sports interacting with each other and the coaches and like this, this can be really fun and really powerful and like, when they see, okay, these ones are so much better in their reflexes and okay, these ones are so much better in their ankles and okay, these ones are so much better at whatever, That's the best way. That's the best way to teach the athlete. Right. Like, you've done it a little bit with bringing the sprinter along to the global and.

Yeah, absolutely. And then, yeah, one other thing that I tried last week that you used to like, talk more about when we were in Ancom. It's like when you have the price, think of double it. And there was a handball team reaching out to me, asking for help and I felt, yeah, I can do that for like €300, but I'm going to try to take 800. And it went, yeah, of course. So the mindset, like, many coaches like, are not used to take pay and, and so, so that was a big self thing for me, that asking for that kind of money and, and that it went along.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going through a big thing with that as well at the moment. Jonas of like, this thing works, it's going to be worth More than 100 million, you know, in, in the next year or two. Like this just by the nature of the project, if it's working as an app and, and there's 100 coaches, like, it's going to be, you know, it might be worth a billion within the next four years if it's like, if it goes reasonably well and it rolls out like. And that's a funny thing to think about, you know, like, because I'm used to working for whatever, like guys are paying me two grand to work together for the year or, you know, 10 grand it was before. But it's a good, it's. It doesn't matter about that stuff. It just matters about the mission. But, but putting the price. Yeah, it helps to put the prices up and realize like, okay, people are happy to do this. It makes sense to them as well. Wolfgang Schulhorn. Kev is the, He's a skill. He's a biomechanist and skill expert is the one that I've been speaking about. He's the found, like the, the differential learning guy. It's Wolfgang Schulhorn. So he worked with sprinters, he worked with throwers, he's worked with gymnasts, he's worked with martial artists, he worked with his top Soccer coach. He's the. The current England manager is like, he personally mentored him. The England soccer manager. Yeah.

Well, on that note, for Jonas and what you were saying there about the mission, it's funny, Buffalo Minister was saying that in his materials, like, with the whole procession effect, like, just focus on you being the bee, you fulfilling the function, and then by proxy of you having an intention that this is all going to work out. And you're continually say, authoring the vision that you have. And if you are altering that vision and you are doing what you're doing, that intention will bring the evolution of the fruits that you want. It's not the. It's not that you focus on the money, it's that if you focus on the vision and the experiences of. Basically, because money is just conduit to an experience and it focus on the experience, that's what the body and heart understand. So you're going to be more resonant to that outcome. And yeah, it's like the more. The more that I've went into this Chilton piercing, it's like they say, like, don't have certain people in the room in the first hour that the baby is born because the. The fields are so strong. So then I was like saying, like, if your mirror neurons are bonding with things that don't support you in getting to where you want to go, well, you better get rid of them because obviously you're bonding to those fields as well. And if you're bonding to the field of, oh, lack of money, then you're going to bond to that field. So, yeah, that's just food for thought with this topic.

Yeah, but on the athletic level as well, Kev, it's like that who's in the room and the bonding, like, in the. In the first hour, you've got, like a really strong window. But then we've. We're putting years and years back to back of who's in our lives and what the influences are and what's normal. And, like, normal now is really, really low compared to the villages. If there were. If you were a culture wherever you are, like in the Swiss mountains in Ireland, in the German mountains, there was the dancing, there was the stone lifting, there was the stone throwing, there was maybe the wrestling. And everybody did it. And the music as well, the beats, everybody did it. And so there was. There was no. Like, it wasn't an option to not be in at all. Like, maybe the odd person was, but, like, that was the culture. And everyone was picking up the heavy stones, like, in Kari's culture in Iceland, you couldn't marry unless you could lift a certain stone. But, but everyone was lifting the stones, so it wasn't like such a big deal because it's like a lot of the guys could lift the stone, but now, no, no one can lift the freaking stone. So, like, we've normalized such low standards that it's, it's like it, it's, it's gonna take a lot of us to, to shift the normal again within our own minds and within each other's minds. Of like, okay, he's doing this and that's normal for him. He's doing that and that's normal. The CrossFit's done a good job of that with like some really heavy lifting stuff and being able to get through a lot of training volume. Like, they, as a culture, they shifted the norms and a lot of people outside of that culture just put a wall up of like, no, that's CrossFit. That's. I'm not going to look at that. I've been looking at it since the start. It's, it's interesting. It's good. I had some of the top CrossFit athletes in Australia came into training camps at my house and, you know, we spent time together like, but we need, we need to create that same wave. And I'm, I'm curious. Like, you can't even know what that wave looks like when people start to really embrace these elements. And there's a lot of work to do to systemize it to make it more user friendly for people to be able to experience it and learn it quickly and understand the philosophy. And I get it that it's not built at the moment. The tech is terrible compared to what it's going to be. And the clarity of how to do all the stuff is not there. But there's a way of building. Since March this year, we've come a long, long way since March this year. The clarity of what it is, the book, where the app sat. It's not where it needs to be. It's, it's not like. But if we had $500 million behind what we were doing, like this guy's got laying around his bank account as he cruises the world in a boat. Like, we could do a lot with 500 million. So let's just get 500 million. Like, what's going to happen if you put 500 million behind this? Advertising, facilities, sponsorships. But you actually don't need to need that. Like, that's the thing you think about. Okay, what would we do if we had that 500 million? We do this, we do this, we do this. And you figure out like 90% of what you can do with that 500 million you can just do now anyway. It doesn't actually take any money. It just takes the decision of, like, be the person who's got infinite resources behind them because you're kind of already there in a lot of ways or in more ways than you realize.

Yeah, it's funny that.

It's like you.

There's always a seat of potential that you have that is within you, and it's only for you to realize the potential. So it's like this emergent or possible reality or possible thing for you is just laying dormant. Like it's waiting for you to be realized. And then as you said there, it's like, it's, it's. It's actually literally all there. But the prerequisite to fulfilling the thing is the nodes in the network leveling up. So then by proxy that when it is international, people actually have a guide to go to because, you know, people are so, you know, guided by, oh, who the leader. The, that kind of, you know, world kind of hero journey phase. Okay, who. Who's the person that I can look to, to emulate for this arc that I want to go through in this journey of athleticness. And then the more that are there, you know, the better.

Every, Every sport, every locality, every city, like, we need leaders in, in every. So that people identify with that niche of like, okay, yeah, there's someone in my city, there's someone in my sport, you know, who's working really seriously with this. Like, it's really important to have that. You could see it a lot with atg, like, yeah, is there anyone who's into golf? And he'd be like, no, like, it's the same stuff. Like, it's the same body. It's like, no, no, they really do want to see someone who's into golf. And, and, but it does make sense as well. Like, because you. It doesn't. Like, there are universal elements to especially like with range training and stuff like, but. And with new athlete. But you, you need the specific coach who knows the sport, the sport really well. Like, and when you get into the differential learning, like you. It still takes a great coach to like judge the differences. Like you. Probably anyone can make a better training session using differential. You can go into a sport you can roughly work out, like, yeah, let's do some of this stuff that's kind of different. But then if you're trying to make the best manual, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Like, I think you still need detailed perspective on the sport to make the right type of differences and guide someone towards like their next level. I think the untrained eye is not going to break a lot of world records by bringing differential training to a, you know, to a sport. What do you think?

Yeah, I think this is a really interesting thought, especially as I've been working in different sports, like in a lot of different sports which a lot of strength and conditioning coaches haven't usually like, a lot of, like in Germany, a lot of strength and conditioning coaches stick to one sport and then they specialize on that. So to me what I find is it's good if you understand that sport, but, well, basically it comes down to understanding movement and biomechanics and like if, and that's why I think good, great coach needs to have a lot of self experience because from self experience you can, you have a big transfer of like you observe a sport that maybe you have never done. But if you have a feeling, okay, what's the demand of that sport? What? Like, I don't know. I, I've, I see a lot of sports that I've never really done myself, but I have a really good feeling, okay, at what? Like with golf players. Sometimes when I worked with golf coaches, I could give golf players better coaching cues than the golf coaches because the golf coaches, they use the cues they always relied on. But I look at it like differently and I kind of feel into the movement and then I realize, okay, yeah, it's a lot about learning where to apply pressure, timing and things like that. And that's why this, this broad approach of new athlete project. I mean for me this is the way because, and it's interesting in, in the language is again very interesting here. Like in the German language, we don't have a strength and condition coach. We call it athletic trainer, which if, if you use it in English language, this is something different. But I always thought like athletic training in German is much, has a much broader approach than like strength and conditioning. This already puts the focus so narrow that that's why this culture developed.

Yeah.

And because for, because the, the sports, sports is such a big entertainment industry in the US and it's like one of the biggest industries. That's why it kind of went all over the world. But I think now we're coming back to, to the basic that like athletic training is not just strength and conditioning. And, and also now we if right now I'm, I'm leaning heavy into motor learning because I think like what, what a lot of the sports world does at the moment makes worse athletes than we could be, we, we lose a lot of potential because, and that's why you have to understand how we learn. And, and I don't know, I think it makes sense to me that you can like specialize on one sport, but it's again, you have to understand sports from a broader perspective and it's more about understanding movement. And then also in sports where you. In team sports it's understanding. Yeah. Team psychology, it's a, it's a lot of other stuff you have to understand to be a really great coach. And, and. I find it also interesting that like in marketing you always say you have to specialize to, to. And we have kind of overdone the specializing that we lose like our abilities to be a good generalist and to look at the whole picture. And I think like from a training standpoint, like build a well rounded athlete. Takes, takes. You need to be able to take a lot of perspectives and then you have to realize, okay, and that's probably the specialization in each sport. Then you have to understand in which sports, which perspective have a little more load than others.

Yeah, that'd be interesting to dive deeper into. Yeah, the, the core idea that you're saying there that like maybe the new athlete coach is actually going to be a better skills coach than the existing coaches in that sport because you bring different cues, you bring different perspective. And I, it's true. And I kind of felt like that in rugby and I felt a bit arrogant because I never really played that much rugby myself. But I knew I was better at coaching the players to be better rugby players than the coaches. And in many areas because I come from a hockey background and you had to work on your individual game a lot. And I could just see, well, this guy can do that and you can't do it. So I'm going to show you what he can do. Like, and obviously that's, that's good if I can get you to do what he can do. And it works really well for him. Like it's going to make you a better player. And like that's another. Coaches weren't really addressing that kind of stuff because it was more about the strategy and just drilling stuff. And so yeah, there, there is a real chance but the, the main reason I'm saying like be okay at the sport and be put forth as like someone who works with that sport is, is More just because that's the culture of sports. There's so much culture in a sport of like, if someone's never swung a golf club, it's really hard to listen to them talk about like swinging golf club, even though they probably should. And maybe we can shift the world a little bit in that direction, but the other, the other way I think needs to happen as well. Like us building a bridge back towards the sporting world of like, yeah, hey, we're not, we're not, you know, dismissing the specificity of everything that you've done over the years. You know? You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's almost like more of a act of goodwill as well as like, but, but, but it's good for coaches to feel like, for, for a young coach as well if you're coming into new athlete. Like I want them to feel, feel tennis, feel golf, feel, feel, you know, all of these different sports. And I think, because I think it's a great learning tool to understand force, to understand the body, to understand rotation. Like you, they're tools in themselves. Just like learning to snatch and learning to bench press and squat. Like it's, it's the same thing. When you learn table tennis. It's like, okay, yeah, it's really light, but you still have to go fast. But then if you, you know, it's like every, every sport has its flavors and its nuance in the same way that the different movements in the gym do. Like, treated like that. Yeah, you need to get 25 hours of golf done and at the end of that, like you're in a better place than if you didn't. Yeah, yeah. I think it's good for the coach as well because otherwise they really don't understand. Like, yeah, you can get a sawback from swinging the club really hard and like it does feel like a big whoosh when you swing that thing as hard as you can. Like if you haven't felt it, you don't really know. You think, you think you know, like just because of the force properties and blah, blah. But there's a, there's a nuance to it. Like no one can. Paul used to say it with the Michelin five star, three star restaurants. Like, yeah, like I'll go to the restaurant, I'll have the meal and then I'll come back and tell you about it. Like doesn't, doesn't work like that, you know, like I'll go and I'll go and travel the world and have this experience and then I'll come back And I'll tell you everything about it. Then you'll know. There's only so much I can tell you. There's like, you gotta go, let's go travel the world together, you know, let's go to the restaurant, let's have the meal.

Yeah, true. Absolutely true. And then it's like, I mean, if I, in every sport that I came into.

Yeah.

If I compare what I knew at the, the beginning and what I knew after five years of coaching in the sport. Yeah, of course, it's a big difference.

Yeah. Yeah. So you could probably accelerate that learning. Did you play much of the. Did you put yourself into the skill much? Yeah.

Dependent on, on how much time I had. Yeah. I mean, yeah, for me, I like, because when I was young, I did modern pentadalon and because I did fencing, shooting, running, swimming, horse riding. I mean, I'm used to like, learn and absorb motor skills rather quickly. And I mean, still today, for my age, I'm, I'm still a fast learner.

It's.

It's just something I've done all of my life that I tried sports and pretty much got fast into the technique and, and stuff. And I like, my way was, I was always watching the, the, the athletes I worked with or I looked at the best athletes. And then I, like, in my mind, it's always like, I question always, okay, how does it feel like to do that? And then I try to get into this feeling, I'm a big feeling guy, where I think, okay, if something doesn't work, it mainly doesn't work because I don't have the feeling. Like in gymnastics, when I did gymnastics at university, it was like whenever something worked, I knew, okay, that's the feeling, that's the timing, that's where you have to put the force and that's where you have to know where in the room you're actually moving. And if you don't have that feeling, it's like if you want to do a backflip.

Yeah.

The reason why you can't do it is most of the time because at some point in that movement, you don't have the feeling where you should be or where you should apply force or where you should move. And that's why I think the skill work is a process where with every skill, you learn that in many, many variations. And that's how you should bring up children. Give them as much or as many experiences as possible, and then they become faster motor learners. I think.

I think drumming, drumming is the super skill that children should learn. I Know your boy's doing it, but Stephen Cox, do you see Stephen Cox posted about it on Instagram? He's a drummer as well. Yeah, it's. It's like a super learning thing. Yeah.

I mean, my, My son play started playing the drums when he was 5 and he's. He turns 14 now and it's just, it's so amazing what like drumming, what he learns from a motor standpoint, but also like relaxing and like the tension. And tension. Relaxing relaxation that he learned through that. He, he. I mean, like, as a kid, he was very similar to me when I was a kid. Like, I used to have too much tension for a lot of stuff I used to like. But he learned that much faster than I did to relax. And to. That being fast is a matter of being able to relax. It's fascinating. What, like the drums. Just amazing.

Tap dancing. Tap dancing would be like drumming for the legs, Kev. Thinking about the upper lower body. If you could set up the different sounds, then that's kind of how it goes. And yeah, soccer players are going to be better if they do that. You know, people who need fast hands. Handball players are going to be better if they drum. Like, there's, there's a, Especially like, if you had to make a. If you had to make someone great really fast, what's a pomegranate? You've got to get them there faster. If you think about manual, like, if, if we're going to mentor hundreds of coaches over the next few years to place them in all the Olympic sports around the world and all the team sports, if we need to fast track these coaches, getting them to do the sport is going to be part of that education as well as, like, understanding all these other components that we're talking about. If you, if, if you had. Have been encouraged or supported to just spend more time on the hockey stick when you first went to field hockey, like, you're saying that you were much More knowledgeable after 5 years than you were at the start. Like, you could. I think that curve could be accelerated by just giving you the exposure. Not embarrassing you, not challenging you of, like. But, you know, like, just, just, just do it. Just. No, no stress, but just carry the hockey stick around with you when you're at the training field and just goof around and like, yeah, you're not going to be. Look like everyone else and that's okay, but I think you would, you would get that learning curve faster. You know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely.

It's just all the ego stuff and the, like, People don't understand it. They would judge you. And like, it goes both ways, that the learning is blocked because of cultural, you know, cultural things. Of. But yeah, for, For.

Yeah, I mean that too, in that way. That's how a university should be.

Yeah.

Like in, in if you study exercise or sports science or whatever, you should have two or three hours every morning. Like with skill, work in different. Different sports.

Exactly. That's. That's why we need new athlete university. And just like, for the coaches. Okay, you need to do this every day. Submit your videos. We can see the leaderboards. We can see them progressing. Like, how fast the coach is going to progress like that. If they're doing the three hours of practical plus three hours of theory a day, they can still go and work at the supermarket or drive Uber. And within three years, four years, they're going to be phenomenal. Like, relative to. Especially if the standards. Like, I saw someone did their masters and they're like, they're quite proud of their masters. He did it a few years ago. He's a good coach. He's been in real movement and stuff. He's got it in his bio where he did his masters. So I clicked like, okay, let's look at the program. And on the program page on Instagram, they're doing weightlifting. Like, oh, great. They're doing weightlifting. Nobody has more than 30 kilos on the bar. They're masters athletes in weightlifting. And everything is like, full retard level. You can tell. Like, some of the technique looks okay, but it's like, hey, this is like a weekend workshop. Like, this is two days in. This is not Masters. Like, this is what you're saying. Like, we're five years in here and you. And you're dealing with like, the empty bar. It's like, come on. Like, what are we doing? Like, CrossFit. That doesn't happen. You go to CrossFit gym for two weeks, you're. You're better than them because that culture is so far ahead. It's not like that program is just normal. And it's cool that they're doing something practical, but it's like, what are we doing? Like this. We can do this so much better, but where's the option? Where's the school at the moment? I don't know anyone who's doing it. You know, like, you can go to the Chinese weightlifting school thing, but then there's no one who's got the, like, teach it all. Like, let's. So. So we have to create it. You know, we did a Decent job of it with real movement. But I, I didn't have the big vision at that time and there was like other barriers. I didn't care about trying to change sport at that time. I was just helping people set up gyms and helping trainers to make some money. And now we have this great team. Like just even on this call, you know, we've got you. Emanuel has got lots of experience at the top. Jonas is working with top athletes. Kevin's compete at a high level. Marcel's a phenomenal parkour athlete trying to be a Red Bull at Mikolai. Learned the backflip in his first session here in Poland. He's a good basketball player. He's got a good gym there in Poland. He gets all this stuff with the skills. He's a real fast learner. Riley's playing semi professional rugby league. He's been in the top teams, you know, all the way through his juniors. Super open. Slavi, I don't really know your story. Dom is, is a magician and he's got phenomenal dexterity. He's a super athlete as well. He's picking everything up really fast. And he's a videographer, which is a key skill for, you know, what we're doing here. Luca Lucas, who's staying here with me as a videographer, like, that's a big part of the journey now as well, is like turning it into a little documentary and, you know, putting it Netflix style. People understanding the transformations. Like, already we just. Who's on this call? Like, we've got enough power here to, to make a dent. Like there's. There's at least 10 times this, 20 times this in the rest of the network networks over the years.

So, Keith Ross question, how do I go all in on this like this? Like, as a, as an athlete, you know, I'm. We can talk about coach and everything, but as an athlete, I'm looking at this at a different path as well. Like training all this skill work. Like, I've just been playing with this ball for so long. Like, no, no athlete does that every afternoon, you know. Yeah, like, I'm definitely open towards it all because at the end of that season I just had like, I was getting bored of footy. Imagine if I had all the different jump ropes and everything like that as well, you know. So. Yeah, yeah, it's just a thought. Right now I'm hearing what you're saying. Like, you know, I've been around with you since what, 2016 or something. I've seen this mission go and I'm Just like, this is where I can see it as an athlete now. I was like, what can be next? If I can give myself another year or two, going full on.

Yeah.

At a different way, different system, then there I go. Yeah, I could make it, but at the end of the day I just want to be a better human athlete as well.

Yeah, there's things that are outside of your control with that. There's things that are inside and you know, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But the, the thing of going all in, you'll never regret and, and like for sure you're going to get better at a bunch of stuff in the process and you know, God's plan, like maybe you end up being the best coach or you know, having. You don't know where it goes. Like maybe the destiny is that you score, you know, you break a record for try scored in four years from now. Or maybe it's something else. You know, maybe you change the whole game of rugby league and. But you're not going to regret going all in. Like, that's the encouragement is like, it's hard to value your own journey enough to go all in on yourself. And like it's still the thing for me every day of like, I'm sure to some people it looks like I'm crazy obsessed and I'm doing so much, but to me, I know I can do a lot more, I can be a lot better, I can progress faster and I'm trying to set the environment up around me to be better because I know that I'm a limitation on you guys because, you know, you look at me and you think, well, he can do that. The further I go, the further everyone else thinks, oh maybe. And same with like, Jonas is feeding me energy around weightlifting, Kevin's feeding me energy around jumping. Like you asking me this question, you know, it's, this is the, this is the thing. So that is a big piece of it is like being more connected to other people who are going super hard and treasuring and forging those connections with Kev, with Jonas, like they're great people for you because they're strength power athletes. Like that's part of setting different standards for yourself. Yeah. Like as a footy player, it's a lot about being able to produce a lot, a lot, you know, produce more force. Faster is still a key thing. Taking that further is a big thing. So you know, we need to up your up your abilities with that improving your like dancing foot speed coordination. We're just looking for. Yeah. See It, Tom wasn't planning to go two and a half hours, but it's just the way it's flowed out. You, you're looking, you're looking for, you know, in, in all the crazy stuff. You're looking for like 50 to 100 improvement. So you get twice as good as a juggler, twice as good as a soccer player, you know, twice as good as an acrobat. And then you're looking for that to give you 1% as a, as a rugby player. So you've got to go 100 in a different area to get maybe 1% on the field and maybe you get 2% and then that's, that's phenomenal. And, and if you can be 5% better than everyone else in your position, like you're, you go down as, as a legend. So you, you look into be. You're looking for the, like, where can we find. It's, it's a stereotypical thing of like the 1 percenters, but like, this is actually a method for finding these percentages here and there and there. And so we've got to look for like, what are all the key capacities in rugby league? So you need to like one of the key capacities, like in contact that you're, that you're dominant in contact. So how do you, how do we improve your contact by, you know, to make you 1% better than the best player at your height and weight position. Like what, what can be the components that go into that? So weightlifting is part of that, but then smashing your body against something else is part of that as well. If you think about like, what boxes do with, with sparring, you know, they're always hitting the pads and in 40 you do a bit of it like hitting the bag, but you don't do that much of it relatively. If we really wanted to improve that element of your game, if that was a key element that you wanted to be better at, then we could probably do that stuff better and for maybe for more volume, maybe with more variation, different types of bags that you're hitting. So there's some that are like pretty hard that like really shock your body and some that are really soft that you can fully like, launch yourself into. You see how like, we start to think about like, what, what makes you, you know, beyond. But I mean, doing three hours of skill work a day is if you can afford it. You know, that's an obvious thing. Like get your hands to, to a much higher level, be decent at basketball, be decent juggling. But then, yeah, be on the footy. Ball a lot. Carry the footy ball with you wherever you go. Like Bernardino said it, like, you have to be at one with the ball. Like the ball is just an extension of your body. Andrew Johns was the most like that, you know. You know, Keri was, was more like that. People who play who aren't halves feel like they don't have the right to be like that in footy. And it's silly because everyone can be a quarterback in rugby league and only some players think of themselves as being the quarterback. That's the seed. You know what I mean? I've been thinking for a long time, like, there's going to be a prop in some stage in the game. There's going to be a prop who has the skills of a, of a halfback. There's going to be a second role that has the skills of a halfback. And it's.

Yeah, this year, this year I felt that, that I was just on the outcast. Like, I've got this step, palm chain of direction that used to be all in my game. This year I didn't really use it. And when it was showed, they're like, whoa, where's this been? It's like, well, it's been here. Like I'm doing it, you know, so, yeah, I can see where this is heading. So I'm getting excited.

It starts with the vision. Like, that's what I mean. We said it on the Friday call. Doesn't cost anything to have a big vision. Like, there's, there's no cost involved. If you're saying, like, I want to, you know, redefine the way athletes prepare for rugby league, like through my own example, it doesn't cost you anything to have that vision. Of course, someone could say, well, you can't do that. You're silly, blah, blah, blah. But why would you, like, why would you not have that vision? If you look at how I'm living, like, it's not possible to have multiple locations around the world and your children don't go to school and you get to train every day and you work with, with top coaches in all different sports. Like, there's no way that's possible. But then now I'm doing it. So now you can't say it's not possible. So for you at the moment, like, you don't have to tell everyone your vision, but you, you need to have a big vision. Like, you need to have. The bigger your vision is, the easier it is to work with you. The easier it is for, like, because your subconscious mind is Then going to be working in harmony with the kind of the way I'm thinking about this and the way, you know, the highest expression could be. You get what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't cost you anything to have the vision and then you don't. It's a mystery of how far it can go. But if you're not aiming for the best, like I said it with Jonas, it was like you wanted to have, like, competitive Swedish sprinters or whatever. Like what? Like, why would you aim for that? Like, aim to have the fastest athlete of all time? Like, what doesn't cost you anything to have the vision? You're going to be going to the track every day. So why do you aim for the bottom? Like, does that. Is that logical? But we all fall into it by our environment, by people around us, by, you know, by whatever. Like how we grew up, brought up. But then we start to expect better from each other here. Of like, well, yeah, you know, you said you're doing that thing. You're doing that thing. Like, where's your three hours of training? Like, how much better did you get at this this week? And. And we start to perform, build that positive feedback loop for each other. We just. Yeah, we expect something that would be completely ludicrous outside of this network. You know what I mean? But, yeah, you're kicking the ball against the wall there on your own. You're not going to get it good as fast as if you go and spend half an hour with Sebque in Sydney, drive yourself down there, say, hey, can we go from. With the soccer ball for half an hour? When you show me some stuff, you'll get so much better. You come back and practice that you're like, hey, we're going to practice again in a month from now. You'll progress so much faster with your soccer by doing that than just working out yourself. And if you're participating in the leaderboards and you see, okay, yeah, Dara just did. I think he did 4,000 touches on his alternate kicks. It starts to recalibrate. Like, okay, well, yeah. And then you start to be the leader in something and everyone's looking at you for like, okay. And you're bringing innovative ideas forward. See you, Kev. So spend some time with the vision for it. Have. Have a bit more of a look at what we've got there. And yeah, let's, like, let's. Let's map it out. There's a. There's a document there in. In new athlete in the back. Like, new. New rugby athlete. We can start to flesh that out properly. But you can be, like, leading that with me. I'm always going to have suggestions for you. If you're bringing me energy, if you're bringing me questions, like, yeah.

Cool, I appreciate it. That's a lot there.

Yeah, listen, listen back again. Write some stuff down and, yeah, we'll keep discussing it. I love that I got ahead.

Yeah, thanks.

Jump out, too. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, team. Enjoy the rest of your session there. Jonas, good to have you on. Nikolai. Slavi. Thanks for coming. Talk soon.