29. Differential learning, 20 in 40 strength, archetypes

All right, gentlemen, so juggling session there. You're welcome to continue, but give me some thoughts on what. What did you go through in that last 20, 30 minutes? What did you experience mentally, physically, technically?

So what I experienced is it was very far away to the four balls. Now my mind is like, it's coming also, like, I'm with the four different. Like two different balls. And after the few drills, basic drills, I could sense more sensitivity in the weight of both. So my. My mind was a little bit sharper, like in the.

In the.

In what I was juggling. I sweat a lot in the body. Like a little cardio. I don't know why, but like, yeah, like, if I was like, wrestling or something.

Was saying that his brain was sweating.

Yeah. Right.

It's amazing. It's amazing. It's like going back to school in a different way. I was. I was sweating a lot in the. In the body and. But it's. It's great. I. I couldn't do the fingertips. I was a little bit, like, retarded at first, but then it came naturally. And also in the end, it's like the more you are relaxed in your mind. Like when you said, don't go too power. Like, just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And a relaxed mind also helps to give you more time.

Yeah. Sometimes if you're coaching someone on this and you just say, just don't, don't. Don't worry about the catches. Don't try and catch them. Just make sure you throw. That can also take some of the stress away because naturally you tend to chase for the catch. But when you're getting a little bit paralyzed of like, I don't know, there's too much here for me to do. I know exactly the feeling that you're talking about. If you're just like, okay, I just need to worry about the throws and then after the catches and when. When this. This can also help a lot.

Yeah, absolutely.

Marcel and I did a session stuff.

Yeah.

Two, three days ago.

Yeah. Maybe you can. You can tell the story a bit of. Come closer to this one.

No.

I've been practicing my five ball since. Since I went to Vanuatu with Kigi and is when I kind of started doing it. And yeah, most. I've just been doing the five ball flash and. And the three ball flash and. And maybe some clapping in between, but I would always stick to that one drill for a while and try to get it and struggle with it. And yeah, like, wasn't really making very fast progress and I was getting frustrated and Was getting harder to stay consistent because I'm like, oh, feels like I'm not moving anywhere. But I was like, oh, yeah, just. Just muscle through it like it's gonna happen. But the four ball took me like four months. Two months. Two months on the four ball. So I was like, maybe this is gonna take me how long? Maybe half a year. Maybe a year, who knows? But that. Then I came here and I was doing my usual drills at the gym. And then Keegan came through and he started giving me all of these cues to, like, basically everything we went through today, but more aimed towards the five ball. And then the next day, or was maybe the day after the session, I started just playing with it myself. And suddenly I broke through like that first initial five throw. The first five throws. And I was able to keep the pattern going for the second circle. I was like, whoa. I just surprised myself incredibly. And yeah, it was just after one session with Keegan just like made more progress in the last two months. So, yeah, this definitely works. And I'm sure you guys felt the same during this session. I was like, halfway through, my brain was getting overwhelmed. I'm like, wow. I'm like, it's getting harder and harder to focus on this.

I was picking up on Joe's.

I think it was.

You just stand there like this, sitting there like this, and it's. It started doing.

And then.

But the rockets. Is it. Or did you hit something? Or did it just do it on its own?

No, I was just standing like this. Created a thumbs up.

Interesting. But yeah, this, it's. It might seem like we were just goofing around them, but this is actually the best way to progress. Every 10 seconds change. Keep the brain awake. You don't stick with any drill long enough to really master the drill. But the point isn't to master the drill. The point is to progress overall. And the point was really today about getting you ready to do a better four ball. And Augusto straight away had a better breakthrough with his four ball. This call was for Augusto. We were talking, thinking about being the number one athlete in New Athlete. I think Augusto has the. The potential to be number one in the list. And I told him that. So he said, look, I need to work on my juggling. So I said, okay, let's. Let's jump on. And it's. Yeah, it might seem like that wasn't a four ball session because we only did a little bit at the end on the four ball. But I guarantee if he does that, that style of session three, four more times he's going to already see a breakthrough on the four ball. And. And even from what you're saying there, Augusto, like, you can already see, okay, I see the path now. Like, that's, that's the main thing that we need to know is like, okay, I see where this is going. And for you, Joe, like, you're feeling like you're a little bit stuck with, like, okay, I'm at this point, I've been doing this for a little while. Get better at everything that we just showed you, and you won't be stuck at that point, I can guarantee it. And then all of those little ones that I showed you, you know, you can get better at them because they're already getting better within like 10, 20 seconds. And you would like trying to keep up on the fly. I get it that it's not as easy through zoom and watching the screens and everything, but even just in that struggle like that, it pushes your base up to then be able to get that next thing. So juggling itself is really easy. All you're doing is this. But it's true, the physics of it is a very simple thing. Why is it difficult then to progress from 3 to 4 to 5 to 6? It's because of the stacking. It's just like there's too much going on at the same time. So you have to keep giving yourself too much going on with the easy ones. That's why we did so much one ball work and, you know, doing this other stuff, it's like just practice stacking too much into your easy stuff. And then when you go to the hard stuff, it's not so hard. Also, when you do your hard stuff that you can almost do, go way harder than it already. Augusto, I want you to start on the five, four. Let's do that right now. Do you have five or not?

I don't have five.

I don't have. Go to the kitchen. Go to the kitchen.

Get the lemon.

Find something orange, lemon, lime. I don't know. Probably not a glass bottle, but something.

I have a potato.

Potato is perfect. Potato is perfect. Juggling dog. Let's do five. Has everyone got five there? Who else has got five? Go to the kitchen if you need to. We need five. I want seven. Honestly, like, I think you, you should have seven balls. If you don't have seven balls, jump on Amazon after the call today.

If not, you can cut two balls off you.

And.

Jose is talking about testicular growth, so. But yeah, once it's a one, it's a one time job. If you do that, then it's. So we just want to get five throws. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Doesn't matter about the catch. All I want from you is five throws. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. If you catch one, fantastic. If you don't catch any fantastic. Once you can throw five throws, then I want you to throw them to the opposite foot. So my orange ones are going to go this side, my white ones are going to go this side. And see with myself.

We'Re gonna go.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The orange one started here and they finished there. I don't know if you could see.

I catch only one.

Okay. One is better than zero now. Do.

You?

Yeah. One, two, three, four. All we need to do is throw it. Don't worry about anything else. Two, two. He's got two. Yeah, that's. That's fine, Joe. That's. Don't. Don't shake your head. If you threw the balls, you won. How many?

It doesn't throw two at once, right?

How many? 47 year old early retiree entrepreneurs are battling with this today in the world. It's a blessing, bro. One, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. Yeah. Yeah. But we don't want it to be as much like the four ball. We want to go back to more like a three ball mentality. Think of it like three ball thrown to the opposite side. Start like your three ball. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. Nice. One, two, three, four, five. Make sure the fifth one goes up as well. Throw them a bit higher. Hit the roof. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Nice. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 1, 2, 3, four, five. You can also practice it without throwing them. Just move your hands to the rhythm. One, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. Yep. Faster. Hey. Very nice, Augusto. Very nice. You're in the game. You're a 5, 4 juggler now. 100. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Yeah. Nicholas, I want you to get five with a clap. Marcel. Five with a clap. 1, 2, 3, four, five. Clap before the balls hit the ground. Yeah. Nice. Edwin. Eden. Same game for Edwin. Go back to four for me, Joe, for a minute. Just so we. Just so we get recalibrated. Go back to four for me for a minute. And we're going to go 1, 2, 3, 4. But they're going to go to the opposite side. Doesn't matter if we catch it. 1, 2, 3, 4. 1, 2, 3, four. Everyone could go back to this. 1, 2 claps. 1, 2, 3, Four. 1, 2, 3, FOUR. 2 claps. 3 claps. 4 claps. 800 claps. Four ball, cross with a clap. Four ball, cross with a clap. Who's the first to get it? Four ball, cross with a clap. Okay, Marcel, got it. Marcel got it. Anyone else? Four ball, cross with a clap. Evan's in the game. Show me this one, Joe. Hey, there we go. There we go. That's nice. You feel that? Feel how you. You bit back. More in control there. Boom, boom, boom. Yes, yes, yes. Just the throws, Joe, not the catches.

Are we crossing?

Yeah, we're crossing. I want you to throw a little bit higher and just the throws. Don't worry about the catches. A little bit higher, just the throws. One, two, three. Boom. One, two, three, four. Tell yourself. One, two, three, four. Hands. Just focus on the throws. Throw, throw, throw, throw, throw, throw, throw. All right, all right. 1, 2, 3, 4. Yeah. Faster hands. Yeah. Practice without actually letting the ball go so you can go faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Faster hands. Nicholas.

A muscle activation problem at some point, like a power problem.

More power. Cleans. Nice. It's, it's, it's the overload, Joe. It's like the system is overloaded and so you just don't get the velocity.

Yeah, it's just, just overload.

It's not, it's not your speed. If you take the elements out of it, you can go fast. It's just because there's too much going on at the same time. The wires get jab. All right, so we need. Yeah. Consecutive four ball, cross, clap. Four ball, cross clap. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. How many, how many in a row can we get? Oh, hey, kicks. Yes. Yeah.

So I had, without. I. I had the five in the air and I got to catch a three. That was my record free. I don't know how I did it, but it was like tomorrow, tomorrow will be five.

I think maybe later today.

Like the potato corner.

But I got three.

Cook this potato. That's the secret. Peel the potato and then, then it's gonna be perfect.

Okay? Okay. So I have people awaiting me in the gym.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. Well done.

It was amazing. Kicks. Amazing, amazing, amazing coaching with this stuff. I thank you.

Welcome, welcome. It's the same for all the stuff, though. This is how we can help each other when you do the same thing for the floor Acro, you know, so we can have a live experience of it as well. The follow along videos are good and we should use them, but there's more energy here and there's even more energy when we get together. We're going to have an event in Bali. We're going to have. We've booked out the Bali Time Chamber for a private event in February. I haven't announced it yet, but 9th to the 19th. I've got Bali Time Chamber as a private, private venue.

So I would, I would love to, to be there. Like how many days?

Yeah, there's going to be a two day event and then there's going to be a week long stay. But we're also. There's also another, another announcement coming as well around, around that. So.

Yeah, definitely is be able to be there and maybe spend as much time as I can. So send any news and any possibilities that are out there.

Yeah, we have to do some special deals for the, for the top five athletes as well. So we make it a bit spicier to get amongst the top. It's more fun when you're better at stuff. Right? Like it's better to be better and push the standards. And you know, it's great having Marcel here because he's so far ahead of me on the acrobatics that it's like it's crazy for me to, to see him. But also I get to help him with, with some of the ball stuff. And you know, this is the beauty of it. We. We each have our thing. When Edwin finally reconnect with Edwin, we're going to do good wrestling and you know, basketball with Nicholas and everyone has the thing, right. So this is the beauty of it.

Amazing. Marcel. I will be doing the, the med ball backflip and I think it's amazing to put a ground movement and medball back flip sleeps and together. Amazing.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And this. I started to jujitsu like a month ago. I'm going like three times a week. Amazing stuff. So there's a new journey for me. But coordination with these things I think is. It's amazing. It remembers me a lot of about piano because you have to put a temple here and another tempo here and your body gets stiff until you release the tension and you maybe you can go boom. And here. So. And I was thinking about older people how, how much benefit can.

With this simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I love the, the one ball can be fun for anybody though. You can make it fun even for the best acrobat. They throw it up in the air, they have to do two backflips, then they catch it. You know, for everybody. There's a level where it's, where it's super engaging. You do like ice skating drills, 360 jump while the ball's in the air, like, everyone can have fun. Tennis ball. You bounce the tennis ball, but between each bounce you have to do a spin. It's. It can get. There's no. It's never too easy. It just lacks creativity. If you think it's too easy. One ball. But yeah, it really does help. Like your one ball helps with two ball. Your one ball helps your five ball. Like, it's, it's all connected. So building the bigger base is a beautiful thing. And I think that's what the floor acro stuff is like building a much better base that when you go into aerial acrobatics, you're. You have a lot less fear of the floor because. Yeah, you have to reacquaint with the floor. So. Yeah. But yeah, you better get to your, your client and get, get, get on with the day. There. You got a tennis ball there, Nicholas, you got. Nice touch. If that's a tennis ball.

Yeah.

Bye, everybody. Thank you. Hope to see you soon.

Oh, yeah, the soft ones. See you soon. Augusto. Welcome. Yeah, if that was a tennis ball, that's a tennis ball. It's great, but. Yeah, it's still good, but it's not the same.

I have been playing with this, like from last year.

Yeah, like.

Yeah. Going with the feet and control the ball.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you play a lot of football as well? Yes, I still play. Yeah. Yeah. Is it more football or more basketball?

I think I'm playing more basketball.

Really?

That's my strong point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I interrupted Marcel to. Yeah, I have the same ball. I bought the same ball the other day, size four of mine. I. I think I interrupted myself to start everybody on the five ball juggling. But it was, it was good that maybe. Do you have anything else you want to add there?

Just make a differential and you can apply it to any other ball sport as well. That's what we were just talking over, over lunch today, that all of these, you know, techniques, we talk about the juggling. But if you want to get better at shooting your soccer ball or shooting the basketball, it applies to all of the ball sports. The same techniques just make more going on and change the variation of where you place the foot when you're kicking and where you kick the ball and how you kick the ball and the speed of the ball and where you aim with the ball. My second endeavor, I want to get the. I want to be the good bowler. I want to be the professional acrobat, but I also want to be a very good bowler. And I. And I feel those two. I feel like those two are connecting a lot. Like talking to a lot of the soccer players that come, I can really start to see that connection more and more and more. And yeah, for myself, the balls is something I have been avoiding since my childhood. So something I need to work on the most, I think.

Great to hear, brother.

I'm also practicing my food juggling, lady.

I want to lead on the Maradona seven score leaderboard.

Very good. Which is your primary area, Joe, would you say. Which of which have you worked hardest on out of the. Have you seen the seven archetypes there?

I don't think I. You mean like beats balls?

I've reflavored that to give it a bit more connection and brought the force into it as well. So the balance guy became acrobatics because the third element of balance was the air. To balance in the air, which was like trampoline and tumbling and stuff. The first archetype is the acrobat. The second archetype is the baller, all the balls. The third archetype is the combat dancer, which is the beats one. And then the next ones are the force ones. So we have the enduro, which is the endurance athlete. Have the fastest. The speed athlete. Have the giant, which is more the strength athlete, person who loves to lift. And then the seventh one is like the health yogi. So it's all the health techniques and the mind and optimizing the digestion and the breath and all of these things. So they're the seven archetypes.

Which.

Which would you say is your. Is your biggest strength at the moment?

Yeah, the one I'm exploring really hard right now is probably the acro. The acrobatic one. Yeah. Although I did. I did kind of hurt my AC joint on Saturday. It's a like a level one type of injury. So I think it'll be better in a couple weeks. So, you know, a little pause from some of the. From handstand work and stuff, but I've been doing a lot of handstands of continuing to work on the back flip. Just really working hard on, like getting a good back bridge splits in good position and then working into, you know, I want to be able to do a key up a Macau, you know, a handspring. Those will be things that I sort of work on next, but I. I'm like exploring those because I think that they pretty well capture a bunch of stuff that old people generally can't do and young people generally sort of naturally gravitate toward. And so When I think about like how I want to like turn myself into a younger body or live longer and etc, that's one of the paths that I've been like really exploring a lot lately. The other one might be just not that I have like a huge diverse. But I'm like really focusing a lot on like mindset and purpose. So I've been, I've been posting them on, on insta most of my sessions. But every day I want to do one expansion workout which is kind of like everything that's not strength or cardio, and then one base workout which is strength or cardio, one of each a day, at least five minutes, but probably more of journaling where I'm like really trying to force my brain. Just like juggling. Like you can feel your brain drain when you're doing this. When you sit down to write 10 ideas down on paper. Like by the time you're on your sixth idea, like your brain's like, oh my God, this is hard. But then you wake up the next day, it's after you sleep, right? So like using, using motion to create a milieu of neuroplasticity, then jumping on that with journaling exercises that install sort of a new operating system. And I think that's like kind of the one, two punch for like using the body as the entry point for like changing the brain and the mindset, you know, expanding life. So I'm just kind of calling it doing that for 100 days, calling it the longevity 100. I'm just kind of executing on it and trying to post as much as I can about it right now. That's, that's basically what I'm doing.

Love it. Yeah. Yeah, I would. 100. The acrobatics is very youthful. There's no, no two ways if you can do the acrobatic stuff. It looks like a young person.

If, if. I mean, it forces me as well to, if I do it right, to spend time doing durability stuff, right? Working on my hands, making sure they, they don't get hurt, working on my feet, getting my toes and my ankles strong. That is the type of stuff you don't really see in a backflip. But it's like you got to spend a lot of time doing that. Right. And I kind of stole your, your word expansion. And I don't know, kind of twisted it a little bit, but you know, you know where it's coming from. And I even call it expansion journaling.

Nice. It's a good word. What, what did you pick up There, Edvin.

I mean, I'm hitting my best five balls in months. I think I have, like, my high score would be a bit better. My personal best, but almost there. Like, on multiple throws.

Yeah.

And we didn't do much five ball at all. No, it was mostly from the, I think, crossover four ball as well as three ball. That one.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, I think I'm. I'm ready to create some Brazilian Jitsu players as well. I think it's fine. We need to get the better system to these guys because they're breaking and they're not expanding as quickly as they could be.

Yeah, yeah. Gosto is like a month in there, so that's. It's a good time to. And he. He's really into all the prep stuff for it as well, so I think that's. Yeah, it's a good, good one. What's. What's your best, do you think, Edwin, on the 5?

I'm not sure, but I did throw all of them and then throw all of them again and a couple more. Yeah, yeah. Almost through them all three times, I think.

Yeah. Yeah.

But you guys, you had an experience with Jiu jitsu and in the village, right?

We've been. We've been wrestling a little bit lately. We've had a couple little play rounds. I was just talking in SEMA last couple of days, he was talking about getting the push hands going as a. More of a ubiquitous thing. Like, that's a good entry point for wrestling. And he. Mark Bell just posted the push hands actually on his. On his. I think he posted on his ig. It's on SEMA story a couple days ago. But, yeah, it's good. It's good to get. It's. You know, it's one of the areas and finding just. It's just finding. Finding entry points, and it all feeds together well. Like, the doing more of the Swiss ball stuff makes me feel more comfortable for the wrestle in some ways of, like, just tumbling off the Swiss ball lots of times, trying to do different, you know, flips and stuff on the ball. And some of the one arm, chin up stuff I've been doing as well. Like, feels like it's good for my, like, my tenons and whatnot. Yeah, it all. It all fits together. So I'm. I'm definitely looking forward to doing more of the wrestling stuff and taking more guidance around that.

Random thought kicks on Jiu Jitsu. Like, I feel like if. If you could eradicate injuries from Jiu Jitsu, it'd be an amazing you know, brain stimuli, you know, in longevity sport, right. The. I think one of the most common injuries is the kimura, right? The, you know, the arm lock behind, the shoulder separation. I feel like there's a ton that can and should be done for Jiu jitsu athletes, where if basketball was all about the knee, the shoulder could be a huge thing. For jiu jitsu athletes, there's just so many people who are just like, walk. Especially guys my age who can barely move their shoulders because they've been doing Jiu jitsu for a while, and it's limiting their Jiu Jitsu. Do you know what I mean?

Send me their numbers. I can help.

What's that?

Send me their numbers. I can help. Joe sent me. Not like.

Actually just like, figuring out whatever that the range stuff is for the. For the rotations as well as just the sort of range back here and the rotation back here where it separates. If you could do the equivalent of the ATG split squat, but in the. In the compromised range of motion so that you could take this Kimura, not that you should play in any Kimuras in deep range because they're so dangerous, but if you could get people to, you know, same thing like arm bars are. They just don't happen as much, but they do if. If you could, like, get people to do whatever the equivalent is for the Nordic, for the bicep, so that when they. People do play in arm bars quite a bit, and they sort of try to work through it and stuff like that. If you could really get this. This tendon way more durable, it'd be, like, really interesting, I think, for. Definitely for elderly jiu jitsu people like me, but also like competitive jiu jitsu people who actually try to escape real arm bars. Right. Which is not advised for hobbyists, but they do it in competition. You know, just. Just random thoughts that were in my head at one point that. Feel free to steal those thoughts and do anything with them.

These are good ideas, I think, for the. For the elbow, like, for the arm bars, like, the equivalent of like a tib raise would be like, working the, like, ulnar deviation like that one, because even though the arm bar is kind of straight, it goes on the ulnar, like the UCL here.

Yep.

So just getting a pump in there. Like a massive.

Get a pump in there.

Yeah. So I'd use a band and. Or just a. Like a hammer or something like that, and just get the pump in there. Really short range.

Yeah.

They're working towards long range like that. And also because you see a lot of arm wrestlers. If people arm wrestle, like the weak point is going to be here, like the golfer's elbow. And that's kind of what happens as well in here. Even though this is like bicep territory, it's also going to be when you try to rotate out of it, like a hitchhiker or something, it's going to go on these tendon here.

Right.

So I think, and I've heard people like arthritis in hand as well, like wrists from wrist locks. So I think like tapping into all the muscles below the elbow is like a massive like untapped area. That could make a big difference.

Agreed, Agreed. Yeah, you could get, if you could do. Okay, so if you could do like, you know, that forearm pump, that thing that you were talking about work, and then combine that with something that really gets this extended like a Nordic, right? And then start putting weight into it, serious weight into this like, or you know, slowly adding weight right in this end range. Maybe putting something here to protect an actual hyperextension for really getting it like in that hyperextension range to start carrying some weight and focus there. Those two that you know, compressed plus that end range I think could create some really interesting adaptations like ATG does for the knee.

I, I'd say Smith curl, like incline curl arms behind. Because in like then some of the gnarliest armbar braids will be in the shoulder. And the pec, like you have a pec tear from the, from the arm bar, not necessarily just the elbow, but the pec as well. So the more range you have here, it's going to contribute a bit to not having the elbow. Elbow break.

Yeah, those are really good. The Smith curls. I agree.

Yeah, I think they're both, both are going to be valuable. I think like having that arm forcefully locked out like on a preacher curl, like what you're showing there, Joe, I think also makes, makes a lot of sense. I, I also think there's a, there's a big market for a non competitive style of wrestling or something that doesn't end in tap outs and like, because the reality is like most men aren't actually considering having a fight to the death on the street with somebody. And it's like, it's interesting to consider, but it's like it's not that relevant. And probably 90 of the guys that go and I get that there's a competition side and it's like it's got its lineage and these samurais used to kick out of each other or whatever, wherever it all started but there's like, there's so much, like, benefit to come from wrestling that if wrestling for play came back into society, like, it would be a huge thing. Like, puppies wrestle and they're not trying to break each other's joints. It's like, it's in our nature and to rep, to be able to wrestle with someone and know how to do it without it ending in a. I won, you lost. Like, there's, there's a place for that as well.

Yeah, my, my brain light up because I just had these mats put in and it's basically, I just want it to be kind of like my own private secret grappling club. But that's. I haven't even formulated it the way you said it, but I. Basically what I want is I want only guys who are here to like, move well with each other. Yeah. Wrestle, grapple, etc, but we're not trying to kill each other. We're not trying to, you know, crank subs on each other. There's no, like, hardos in here at all. And we're just coming here to like, turn it into a movement laboratory where wrestling is an ingredient of it. Right?

Yeah. Then it's like, like a capoeira for, for wrestling is what's needed. A capoeira is how you kick the shit out of somebody to a beat and, and never, like, rarely is the actual contact. That's. Something along those lines is like, needs to become a thing. And I, I suggested to all the, all the hard ass BJJ guys a year or two ago, I started a group for it in Instagram and like, try to get them to, to rally around the idea. I think it's still there. It popped up for me today when I was like, searching my groups, like wrestle, play or something.

How did you put it? Like, what's the, the. The one liner or the zinger? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. What's. It's. Yeah, I don't know. It's a combination. All those things I was just saying. But it's. Yeah, it's in our nature to wrestle, but it doesn't have to end with like, as soon as it's like dominance, that, that can be a time to reset, you know? Like, that's, that's how puppies wrestle. It's like, okay, yeah, I got you to a point. But it's. Yeah, it's. It's like no fun if, if the, if, if the big dog just kicks the shit out of the little dog, like the little dog doesn't develop properly. Like it's, it's, it's literally against our nature to completely oppress the smaller one, which as a parent or as an older brother or whatever, it's like finding, like challenging them to the level that they can be challenged at and then the game's gonna naturally level up by challenging each other. Yeah, it's not necessarily instinctive. Like I'm trying to find it with boxing as well. Like it's, it's kind of, it's challenging actually to box without trying to smack the other person or get smacked but still learn and like get a feeling for it. But yeah, there's, there's something big in, in figuring out how to do that. And yeah, I'm not, I'm not quite sure yet, but it can be done. I'm sure.

I'd say I'm like, I'm along the journey and I, I do have some stuff, but I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for.

I think the push hands is pretty much, you know, it's, it's a good start because the push hands is like, even the way NCMA was describing it on his story yesterday or the day before, like, see if I can find it. It was on Mark Bells as well. He's basically saying like, you're not even really trying to push the other person off their balance. It's, it's just like experiencing yourself and each other and challenging each other, but you're not actually looking for a win. Yeah, I don't think it's on there. It's just on his story. Yeah, because yeah, you can, it's like when you juggle, like when you juggle, you're, you're trying to. You part when you partner jug with someone else, like someone's going to be better and the other person's going to be not as good. Like that's just the nature of it. Like, no, you never evenly matched. So the person who's better is trying to keep the other person in the game and the person who's not as good is challenging the person who's better with less good throws. So both are getting stimulation and you try and keep the balls in the air like that. That's the, the game. So the game of the wrestling becomes to continue the wrestle and find out what positions you can get to and still play on. Like, yeah, like with keep ups in soccer as well. Like you can develop your soccer skills a lot when you're playing keep ups with somebody and you k k kicking the ball up in the Air. And the goal is, like, to keep the ball going. It's not, you know, you're not trying to beat the other person. You're trying to give him a pass that they can't keep up. But then in some ways, you can try and test the other person as well. And it's like playing on the edge of that can be really fun. We did it a bunch with tennis Last in Byron Bay. We're playing this tennis game with like, no. No net and no court, and you're hitting the ball back and forward, and then you're trying to find the edge of the. For the other person. And we played for like half an hour at a time, just continuous tennis, like, back and forth, no court, no net. And, and, but you, you're challenging each other. Like, you're hitting it as hard as you think the other person can handle to hit it back to you, and you're, like, hitting it as far away from them as you think they can handle. And it's, it's super fun. It's actually more fun than trying to play tennis, like, where it's like, okay, point, point. Go and pick the balls up all the time.

Like that, you know, like the analogy that when you're scuba diving, your partner's always watching out for you and your equipment, vice versa. What if, like, it's just a new philosophy in the training academy where when you're rolling, your job is to make sure that the other person gets just the right amount of challenge and gets the, you know, give them the space to work. Give them. Yeah. Drill to do with whatever. But, like, have. Make sure you have back and forth, offense and defense, you know, etc. And that's, I mean, that's generally how it is when, When I roll with a really good black belt. Like, they, they don't see me as a threat or anything like that. So they're. They are. And they're. They are instructive in nature. So they are, like, giving me space. I'll work on a move, they'll say, that's good. And then boom. And then they'll counter with something and then we'll back. We'll rewind a step and I'll say, hey, what should I have done there? You know, and. But, like, what if it could always be that way. Even when you're with your, you know.

Yeah.

With your training partner.

Yeah. You don't always have to stop to talk. Or you can, you can talk about after or depends. But also, like, the black belt can put himself in more challenging positions. Like that can be part of the game. And it's, it's like, it's not just about you getting them what they need. It's also like keep making it harder for yourself. Like, don't just dominate because you can dominate. Like put yourself in a, in a trickier position or like, if you're really comfortable boxing off the, you know, orthodox and go, go southpaw for a little bit or like practice it more square stance, if you're used to a more lateral stance, like you can make the game harder for yourself. You know, make a rule for yourself that you're going to keep your feet a bit closer together and then like it's going to be harder for you to. So you can, it's both ways, you know, for yourself and for them. Like, yeah, if the juggling gets really easy or the tennis gets really easy, like I'll start throwing in a squat in between or throwing a spin or like trying to do, yeah, trying to do my dance. Feet in between the ball going back and forward and you know what I mean? So. And then I don't want to mess it up so much that I ruin the game for them, but I want to keep it interesting enough for me as well. While they might be struggling to do the three ball jugglers between two people, but for me, like, I'm playing around with one eye, I'm doing one hand, I'm swapping the hands in between, you know, like, so I'm doing something different to them. But we both have fun. You know, that's the, that's the way it can go as well. And I think, yeah, I think it can be the same within the wrestle, the boxing and whatnot. But yeah, it's languaging. All this stuff is like, it's part of the, part of the challenge, part of the philosophy. Some people would say it's just gay or, you know, whatever. Like, you know, we're, we're, we're here to kill. Like it'll be eaten. But it's not really like that with your own tribesmen. Like when they were sword fighting back in the day, like they don't just get their swords out and. All right, let's practice. Whoever doesn't die today is the, is the one who won the practice. Like, you have to, you have to find that middle ground. Like that's how you develop. But yeah, because of like the break in community and village spirit and all that stuff, like you don't really give a as much if the other guy survives for the next session because like he's not really on your trib like he was back in the old days where you were practicing. Because if the guys from over the hill come, like, you need to have your swords working, so you practice every day with your buddies and you, you know, you see your parents doing it from when you're a child and you grow up with the sword. And then like all of this stuff is like lost. From how we think about sports, I think a lot about these, like, village games. And you look up like the old Swiss village games and stuff they had in India. And like they, they were doing this in a way. Like, that's kind of what boxing is like. It's the gentleman's sport. You put these big gloves on and you, you have all these different rules, so you get the reflexes sharp and you toughen people up, but you don't kill each other. That's kind of what it was. And then now it's going more and more towards mma. And there's other variations of it. There's the slap fighting and stuff. It's kind of like the degeneration of culture from classical music down to the modern stuff. It's. The same thing is happening with these arts in a way. Yeah. Even for myself, it's. It's a gradual shift to not just want to kill the other person in whatever, like in soccer as well.

This idea of reciprocity. So like giving and taking, I mean, it's. You'd call it slow rolling, I guess.

It doesn't have to be like, it doesn't have to necessarily be slow, no flow rolling.

So it's like I give you, you take, and then I'll take something. I'm not sure if it's like the, the times I've developed the most is when I haven't given anything, I haven't gotten anything. But we've made the game so that if the other person's way better, you confine it to like, you constrain it, so it's not the whole game, so it's easier. And then you make it like you constrain it so that one person, the person who's more technically developed has a harder task or more constrained. So even though they don't have to give you anything for you to win sometimes, and then to win sometimes, it's not there. They can't really dominate you completely.

Yeah.

And then that kind of takes away also this competitive, like I have to totally dominate you every time because every single class you're going to be losing no matter how good you are like you're setting up the game so you are going to lose sometimes and then you got, you're getting like 50 wins, 50 losses every 10 minutes. Then that kind of builds it into the, to the culture.

Yeah, but yeah, it can also. There's also something that's not quite as much about the win loss thing as well that, that, that can exist that it's like we're learning here, we're getting better. If this was life and death or if it comes, I'm going to be better prepared because I'm doing this. But we're not, we're not experiencing this, this same win loss thing. Like it's, you can do it with boxing where you have to touch the other person's glove. So you're like you, you're, you're trying to throw the jab at the same time. So you're looking for synchronicity but at the same time you're, you're like trying to do actual boxing moves. And then you try and both. Like if you see the other person jab, then you go for it at the same time. Like it's an example of a game where if it was someone's head, you, you would, you would still be getting better at finding someone's head. And like you're doing a lot of the things that go with boxing, but like these, these kind of things can exist where it's like you win, you're, you're winning together in that sense. With the, with the jab game. It's not, it's not the only way to do it. And it doesn't all have to be non competitive, but I think having, figuring out some more of that is, is useful as well. Like, like capoeira. You know, capoeira is a real thing. It's all around the world and people like it. And it does, it is a preparation for combat. Like that's what it started as and it's what it still is. Is it the best system for kicking the. Out of someone? Like. No, but is it like. Yeah, that's, that's. I think what, what we're playing with, it's almost like you could be doing like, it's almost like a mix between circus or dance and wrestling. You know, where you were, you, you see some of these drills they do for conditioning where they're carrying each other around and lifting over and whatever. Like you could do some of that kind of stuff where it's, you're almost like you've got to turn yourselves into a human wheel and you're getting a lot of body awareness and, and you're learning to leverage and you, you know, you're, you're toughening up, you're getting conditioning. I'm sure you, you do, you, you know, you've done a lot more of this stuff than me, Edwin, but there's this. Yeah, there's something to it. And there's no. For every person now that's doing bjj, there's, there's probably one or two that decided not to because they sick of being bashed up. Like, so there's, there's like a bigger and bigger market for something that gives you the physical outcome and conditioning and you get the contact and you get like some challenge. But if you could decrease, yeah, like Joe's saying, decrease the injury risk by 90, like you would have something interesting.

And to be, to be fair, it's like, it's a lot of the culture of the, of the gym. Meaning, like there's, there's gyms that are all 22 year old dudes who are trying to compete and they're having competition style roles and they are just hammering the crap out of each other. And there's other gyms that are hobbyist gyms and you know, the average age is like 38, you know, and it's much more gentlemanly and collegial and you know, flow rolls and drilling and, and just exploring the art, you know, I just want to like, live mostly in that world because of, you know, and if, if I was 22, I, I'd probably be interested in a little bit harsher of a, of a modality, you know.

Yeah, it might be fun to do it from time to time, but you want to have the other thing to do most of the year. And then every now and then you go like, all right, like let's, let's, you know, take the gloves off or let's, you know, let's just go hard at it for a while. Like it could happen. But yeah, the, it's the nature of the rules in the sport though, Joe, that it's gonna like, if, if the end game is to submit, then it's different. If that's not the, the end game, you know, it doesn't have to be the end game. Like even American style wrestling, like, it's not submissions. So like even sumo wrestling and Trudeau and like, they're all different than what the end game is. So it doesn't, it's not inherently that the end game has to be. The other person says, don't, don't break my joint, don't kill me.

I think taking the submission out is the biggest thing you can do to eliminate injuries. Because if there's a clear goal where the other person can't choose not to lose you like, there's a clear point where you win. It's like judo. I get you on your back, like I throw you on your back, I win. You can't just say, no, I haven't lost left yet, let's continue. It's like I know that I've won so I can let go. I'm like, yeah, the game's over. I achieved the goal that I intended to achieve because I know a place where there all are a bunch of like 18 to 22 year olds who are. Or not they're older as well and they're going hard, sparring two hours a day, like straight. Yeah, straight up. And they are, they have a couple of world champions and they're injuring. Their injury rate is super low. But the only thing they do is far. They do different situations. They constrain it to start with more muscular, less very movement variability in the beginning. So they don't even warm up. And they have less injuries than any other place I've been to. Like we constrain it so it's very muscular at the beginning. They're getting super warm within the first couple of minutes without wasting any time. And then they're doing things with more variants. Like people are in there like really trying their hardest to win. If you look at them, you think they're trying to kill each other. But I think they've got like a recipe for the culture as well. Like the kind of work they do breeds the culture of like taking care of each other. And also like a lot of it is taking out. Like not a lot of the games are to submission. It's like I have to achieve this goal, I have to put you in this position with these conditions fulfilled. If I do so I win and then we start it over and of course and then we switch top and bottom. So bottom player is going to have a harder time probably in most of the games. So if there's a more skilled player and he's on the bottom, he's gonna be. He's gonna be losing as well.

Yeah. Who is that, that you.

That you're referring to?

So that's standard jujitsu and cool. So have you ever heard of Greg Saggers?

I think I have. Is that const based stuff?

Yeah, exactly. He's like leading everything. I was there last year and it was you. You think he's like making stuff up, but. It's way different.

Son r.

But like ecological dynamics. So that's also differential learning and. But they're not doing any drills, so it's different. I think the reason they were having any injuries at all was their physical preparation. So if they had a system for health and range, like stretch strength, like, they'd be. Might be good.

I think.

We need to. We need to have a go at this. Edwin. I've been trying to get someone to have a go at it. Like, let's have a go at it together of getting. Getting the, you know, setting up the game and it'll evolve as we go. If you want to do it.

I think it's just me.

Sorry, I just. Connection issue. I gotta jump, guys. Oh, one other thing. Observation from today, Keegan, was I did, like, the energy of the group and kind of when I looked over and I saw like, Edvin was like, juggling with five balls when I was like. Like, my brain just kind of saw. Oh, like he's it. It sort of inspired me more than just like, seeing a guy on Instagram because, like, seeing people in, like, your perceived tribe doing things makes you want to stretch and reach for it more.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we should do. I think we should do a lot more of this. I think we need to build it. Build it in. It's just. Yeah. How. How we commit to it and whatnot. But it was great. We had like 10, 12 on. It was just like fully impromptu. Put the link up and. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was good for me too. Like, I was challenged with my. With my skills as well. And yes, enjoy the. Enjoy the coaching and yeah, it'll be fun to do it with other stuff as well. Cool.

Love it. Have a great day.

Talk soon. I'm going to jump as well.

Yep. See you guys.