100. Evan Carmichael: Author of Momentum

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. It's a big day. Welcome to our 100th episode. Today we have the pleasure to interview one of our favorite authors, Evan Carmichael. Evan is a special guest for so many reasons, and one of those reasons is that he was our very first guest and told us that when we made it to our 100th episode, he wanted to be our 100th interview. And because of him and you, we made it. Evan is a mentor, a great friend, Author, entrepreneur, and his book Built to Serve has literally changed our lives. His book has shown us what's possible when you discover your purpose and what you value in life. This conversation is truly an inspiring one and proves that if you stick to something and trust the process, amazing things can happen. We have talked to some huge names and have made incredible connections because of this podcast. By the way, if you want to start a podcast or turn your podcast into a business, This episode will bring some immense value for you. Also, don't forget to check out Evan's newest book release, Momentum. It's every bit as valuable as his last one. Now, I want to take a moment to thank you, our Book Thinkers family, for inspiring us, encouraging us to keep going, and changing lives with us. Without you, this would not have been possible. You guys rock. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible 100th conversation with Evan Carmichael.

Mr. Evan Carmichael, welcome to episode 100.

Is it really?

It is 100.

Let's go, Nick! That's amazing, dude. I'm so— dude, I'm so proud of you. I'm so excited for everything you've done from like episode 1 to then You've had some huge names, like the biggest names in the industry for authors to come on. Have you, like, could you imagine 5 years ago that you'd be talking to Ryan Holiday and Robin Sharma and like all these people on your show?

As a result of you.

Wow. I mean, it really is.

You gave me the initiative to start the podcast and you were also episode number 1. So.

I'm like half of 1%. I'll own my half of 1%, but you went and did 100 episodes, right? And you did the outreach. So I've told lots of people to go start podcasts and stuff, and most people don't do anything, and you did. Anyway, every time I see you pop up my feed, they're like, let's go, Nick. Come on, man. I'm so excited.

Well, let me ask you a question, and this isn't tooting my own horn. I'm just genuinely curious. You're episode number 1 for a lot of people, and I'm sure you offer, hey, I'm happy to be episode 100 as well, which is what you did for me. How often does that happen?

Okay, so I don't do that for everybody.

Oh, okay.

I don't tell everybody, hey, I'll be episode number 100 for you, episode number 500 for In a day like today where it's just like all-day interviews, I might do it for half of a person. Like every 2 weeks I might do it for 1 person. So that's not like a— let's say like, I love this person, I want to come back. And my team hates it when I do it because we have such a backlog of interviews and like trying to fit the calendars. Like again for this person, just like, okay, like, yes, I want to be on Nick's show again, make it happen. So yeah, maybe 1 in, in how many would I do in a day? Like 1 in 15, I would say around 2 or around 3 or whatever. 'Cause we're doing episode 250 again, right? So we gotta, we'll put that in the books already.

250 and shifty. All right, we're in there.

And then a lot of people never, never continue, right? I mean, now you're, you've built up enough momentum that you'll, you'll probably get to 250 a lot, but at 1, Most people don't. Some people don't even post episode 1, and a lot of people never get to 100 because they get to episode 5 or whatever, and then the overthinking and everything else pops back in and they don't do it. So, and honestly, I mostly forget about it, you know, like I don't remember who I said yes to. I just kind of trust that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, okay, good, good, good. Yeah. Tell Sandra and we'll do it again. You, I remember, you're, you know, that's different, but most people I don't remember. What I said. So I hope they do and I hope they continue.

Well, something that you told me in episode number 1 of this podcast was, and I don't know if it was on air or off air, but you told me, use my name if you want to go after somebody, see if they follow me. And if they do, or we've interacted in some way, shape, or form, I've created content for them, whatever the case is, use my name. Maybe it moves the needle 1%. And I call that borrowing credibility. I borrow Evan Carmichael's credibility all the time. And thankfully, you're so fruitful with it, you're willing to give it away. But that's moved the needle more times than you would think. And so, you'll have to take your 1% credit on a couple dozen of those as well.

All right. Well, I said half of 1%, but I'll take, I'll go 1%. Fine. I'll take the 1%. But that's something that I think a lot of people don't think about. I mean, I say it to give people permission because my name means nothing to most people, but to some people might be the difference maker. And especially when you're starting a new show, some people care just about how big your audience is and what the numbers are. But on a new show, like you don't have anything yet. And some people just care about who else has been on the show because like if I've been on your show, then that does, that's basically the due diligence or the research for other, some other people to say yes. Okay. If I've said yes, then I'll do it. Like some people will just do that because, and now you've got other people. Yeah, like Ryan and Robin and like other people. Now you have enough names to go get whoever you want basically, which is, it's like, it's amazing. But anybody, like you can just do that for anybody who has a podcast out there, any guests that you've had, you can say I've had this guest on my show. And again, look at who is following them and there might be somebody in there that moves the needle too. So anyway, I love the, I love the like, To see where it's come, that it's like episode 100 and you've done so many and also you've done so many big names along the way. You're not just picking some startup author every single time, like the easy names to get. Yeah.

Well, you know what, you know what I'll do? I'm sure you do this all the time too, but let's say I'm going after somebody, I'll click to their Instagram profile and because they follow everybody that I've interviewed, I'll just click who they follow and it shows the mutual people right there. So if I'm reaching out and somebody follows you, Grant Cardone and Robin Sharma, then I can say, hey, I'd love to have you on the show. We've interviewed authors like Evan Carmichael, Robin Sharma, and Grant Cardone. We think you'd be a great fit to come and promote your book. Here's a link to schedule. Boom.

Yeah.

And the familiarity that they have with me, like you just said, you bypass the due diligence because it was just done in the referencing of those names. That's a way that I haven't articulated it before, but it's really cool to think about it like that.

Yeah. Well, most, most the, and like the higher up you go in terms of access to people, the, the more they get offered to go on shows. And anybody doing outreach, if you reach out to somebody and say, hey, will you be on my show? They're getting pitched like Ryan Holiday and Robin Sharma and Grant Cardone are getting pitched tons of times about being on people's shows. They don't want to do the research to look into you because if they had to look at even for 10 minutes on each person, that's, that's like an entire day to look at, all the people who are pitching them on podcasts because everybody has a podcast. But if you say these 3 people have been on it and those names mean something, it's like, oh, okay. Yeah, cool. And listen, it doesn't only have to be big names. Like now you're in a really fortunate position that you've had for what you do for the nonfiction experts, authors. Like now you have so many names to be able to pull from. But at the beginning, if people want to try to get names on, like if somebody got you on their podcast, And then they came to me and they said, hey, we had Nick from Book Thinkers on the show. I'm much more likely to say yes because Nick said yes. And getting Nick is a lot easier than getting other people. Not that, not meaning to offend or anything, but like there's people, if you want to get me on my, on your show, look at who I follow. And if you got Nick and you got like 2 other people, it's like, oh, they all said yes. And it's an easier yes to say. They're like, okay, I might ping Nick to say, hey Nick, how was, how was This Angela person who interviewed you, she legit? It's like, oh yeah, yeah, it was a blast. Okay, cool. And then I'm not looking at your show, I'm not looking at Instagram, I'm not looking at anything else. And like, because Nick said yes, I'm going to say yes and let's go.

Yeah. And you know what that is, is trust is transitive. If you trust me and I trust this person, the likelihood that you'll just trust them goes up. Yeah. And so trust is transitive. And I think that when you borrow credibility and you build a platform like this, you can just, I don't know, you're pouring fuel on the fire. Especially when you can reference 5 or 10 people in somebody's circle. It's a pretty cool way to do it.

Yeah, the show has to like, had to be good, right? Like if you, if you tell me that Angela is great and then I go on Angela's show and it sucks, right? It's like, oh man, Nick, Jesus. Okay, I'm not listening to that guy again for references, right? So like you're pulling, it works both ways. If it's a great conversation with Angela, then Nick is celebrated as like, hey, Nick is like a good talent finder. And if it sucks, like, okay, I'm not going to listen to Nick as much the next time around. So, you're building up the reputation for yourself by picking, you know, the shows that you go on to.

Well, I'll tell you what, I just would like to take a moment and express how grateful I am for you. And even if you haven't thought about it much, you've been such a great mentor for me, to me, encouraging me to start this podcast and to take other leaps of faith over the years that we've known each other. I mean, you reached out to me via DM with one of those videos that you talk about in this book where every morning you'll send out a couple of them and you said, Hey, I'd like to send you a copy of my new book or something like that. And I said, wow, a verified guy named Evan Carmichael is reaching out to me. Look at this YouTube profile he has. How special am I? And it made me feel like a million bucks. And you believed in me. And now, you know what's cool is I get to do that for other people now.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's amazing how that works. And so your belief in me has led to my belief in a lot of other people. And I mean, thousands of lives have changed because of the book recommendations and stuff. So I mean, it's fun to see the butterfly effect.

Yeah. I mean, and that's the, like, how do I pick? Who do I say yes to? It's much more of a vibe thing where it's like, I, that's always the goal that in saying yes to come on Nick's show and in saying yes to coming on episode 100 and 250, it's like, I love Nick for some reason. We've never even met in person. You know, it's just been like Zoom calls and Instagram messages. Like, I love Nick for whatever reason. He puts off a great vibe. And I honestly, it's like I want him to continue. A lot of times it's just like, I really want this person to continue. And a lot of people quit too soon on their thing because at the beginning, you think about back to episode 1, how much you've learned from like what questions to ask and how to be more comfortable in front of the camera. Like you've learned so much. And so at the beginning, when you suck at the thing, like everybody sucks at the thing, to give them To give a good person hope and momentum and belief, like that's a difference maker that may help them continue for another 6 months instead of 6 weeks. And in that 6 months, maybe they have the shift that then allows them to keep going. And then the hope becomes like, yes, Nick is such a great guy. If I can pour a little bit into him, the 1% that then he then pours into millions of people that I'm never going to meet, like that's what, that's amazing. That makes me so happy.

Yeah, what you just said reminds me of something I've definitely learned over the last couple of years, which is that success and failure are the same road. It's just you have to push through a little bit farther. You have to drive a little bit longer. You have to dodge a few more obstacles and then you'll find that success. And so what you're saying is you believe in people, you give them the ability to stick on that road a little bit longer and maybe they'll get through that final obstacle that allows them to see what sort of opportunity lies in front of them. And that's really cool. That you do that. And I mean, you've certainly done it for me.

Yeah. And like, the more you do it and the more you start to see, like, you'll start to get hooked on it too. Like, at the beginning, I didn't do it as much as I do now. But then when you do a little bit, like when you pour belief into one person and then a year later or 6 months later or whatever, they come back and they say, dude, like, I took your advice and look what I made. And then they give you all the credit. You're going to do the same thing. It's like, nah, like, I'm 1%. Like, you did the work. But when you see that, it's so fun to see it come back in 6 months or a year or whatever, to see their growth that it just makes you want to go and find more people to do the same thing with because it doesn't take that much time. Like how much time did I actually invest into your podcast? Not a lot. Like it's, it's an hour, 2 hours. I don't know what we spent.

Well, we had to actually redo episode number 1 because I messed up on something. So it was like 2 hours maybe. Sure.

But like 2 hours, how many years ago was that? You know, not that long. I mean, it's a— I— we haven't— we've been in touch, but it's not like we're chatting every day. And that had a huge impact to be able to shift somebody's life in an hour or 25 minutes or 15 minutes, like to know that you can do that. And it's then they have the ripple effect or butterfly effect. The more that you see that come back, the more it just makes you want to keep doing it.

Yeah. Recently I was filming a podcast in person with somebody and I was wrapping up the cords after kind of frantically on the microphones and he said, hey, slow down, be in the present moment, focus on this, give it your best, and watch how that boils out to the rest of your life. And I think what you've done for me is you've been in the present moment. And when we interact, you're present with it, you're doing your best, like those little videos that you send out to people. You're giving them the belief and it shows like, wow, Evan's actually present. He cares. He's taking the time to send these messages. And now I do that for other people.

Nice.

And they'll respond and say, hey, this is the first video response I've ever received. How cool is that? Thank you so much. Didn't think you'd respond. I'm sure You get that all the time. And yeah, it's just, I don't know, it's fun.

It's how I built my Instagram is at the beginning I didn't have any followers. I didn't promote it on my YouTube. I didn't put on my email or whatever. I just, I like building on the platform. And every weekend when Nina, my wife, would go shopping, I'd be like sitting there in the Costco parking lot and I would start by looking at who followed me recently and I'd make a quick video like sitting in the car. Hey Nick, hey, I saw you followed me. Thank you so much. Hope you have a great weekend. Believe. Send. Hey Susan, it's like something. And then when I ran out of people who followed me, I go to people who commented. And when I ran out of people who comment, because at the beginning you don't have that many that you can hit everybody. And then it was people who liked my posts and I would just send these messages and it takes like 8 seconds, 10 seconds. Doesn't take that long. And the smile that it brings to people's faces that like, oh my gosh, this person who I follow said something nice to me. Like, it speaks to how like starved we are for connection and recognition and validation. But you can use that hopefully in a positive way that, hey, my little 10-second message to you then inspired you to go send 1,000 messages to other people. It's one of the most important parts of my day is every morning I'll wake up, we'll go for a walk, and I'll send messages to people. And it just reminds me, it connects me to the work because having 3.5 million subscribers or whatever that is, like, I don't know what that means. I can't taste it. It doesn't feel tangible. It's, yes, it's a big number, but a big number doesn't get me super excited. But knowing that, like, I touched one person's life, knowing that one person is like so happy that I sent a quick little video message, it's like, yeah, let's go. Like, that actually feeds you to want to go off and crush the day.

And you've, you've grown a lot over the last few years since our initial discussions. Did I read in here that you've got a team of 40 now?

Yeah, 43. I always get the number wrong. I don't even know what like people do. I was saying I had a team of 20 for a while and then Nina, my wife who runs all the operations, like, you know, we're like at 40 people. I was like, oh really? What does everybody do? And when she like lays out the job roles, like, oh yeah, okay, okay. That makes a lot of sense because we got the, you got the main channel and then we got the researchers and the editors and the thumbnail split testers and then our Russian channel with almost a million subscribers and our Spanish channel with a million subscribers and then my software company and then the agencies we've built. And it's like, oh yeah, okay, if I think about it, that makes sense. So even for, I think 43, maybe it's higher, I don't know, but I don't really pay attention to stuff like that. Nina, I mean, I'm thankful to have Nina to help me run all of that stuff. And what I tell people is Nina runs the Navy and I run the Navy SEALs. So I'm always working on these little small, like fast-moving operations, like in and out. Let's go get something done quickly. And if it turns into something, then it— then I hand it over to Nina and she runs it and then it's ongoing and she's building a navy. So she's got like tons of people to work with and I'm only working with like 5 people at a time on different things. So from my perspective, it's like, well, yeah, I have 5 people who work with me. Like, oh no, but oh yeah, yeah, there's the whole navy over there doing everything else.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, when we first started talking, Book Thinkers was kind of 2 partners. Now it's 1 partner, but we're a full-time team of 4 and we've grown a lot. Yeah, we're— revenue is up, we're servicing people in an amazing way, providing so much more value. And a lot of our recurring clients actually came from the podcast, people that I had interviewed and then sort of reached back out after I built a relationship with. And so it's been an excellent tool. This this podcast has been an excellent tool for building relationships and building trust with people and starting that conversation, which has been, again, is thanks to you. And so yeah, that we're sort of leveraging the momentum right now too.

I love it. What's the biggest thing that you sell?

Hello, Book Thinkers family. A quick word from today's podcast sponsor. Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audiobooks ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, business, and my favorite, personal development. And as part of Audible's partnership with us, we're actually offering listeners a free 30-day trial. This trial includes 1 credit good for any premium selection titles you'd like on the whole platform. So that's pretty much any book, including the one talking about today. That book is yours to keep even after the trial is over. Now, this trial also includes access to Audible's Plus catalog of podcasts, audiobooks, guided wellness programs, and Audible Originals. You can listen all you want, no credits needed. Now, everyone on the Book Thinkers Instagram knows that I love physical paper books. There's nothing better than having a book in your hand, scribbling notes everywhere in the margins. I kind of tear those things up. But I've been completing an additional 20 to 30 books every single year using Audible by listening when I'm in the car, doing chores around the house, or while I'm on my morning walks or runs. You could take advantage of this free trial by clicking the link in today's show notes or going to www.bookthinkers.com/audibletrial. You will not regret it. Now back to today's episode. Video production services. So we'll help somebody turn their book into 50 to 100 pieces of short-form content for Reels, TikTok Shorts, that type of thing. Got it.

And the main customers are authors or publishing houses or what?

Authors with a complementary product or service that's higher ticket, like coaching, consulting, speaking, business, whatever.

Got it. And so, I mean, I've been on this, my 20 2022, 2023, big tip for people doing podcasts is use it as biz dev because a lot of times people quit on their show because they're not making money.

Mm-hmm.

Because it's them trying to, like, it's imagine Nick solo again doing everything himself, trying to do book reviews, trying to post and like, ah, I gotta make a podcast and it's not working and no views. And so people quit. But if you can, if it's making money for you, you're much more likely to stay on it. So Think of it not just in terms of authors to bring on or customers to bring on, but potential biz dev guests. So hitting authors is one at a time and hopefully they refer business and everything to you, but also referral partners like book agents, anybody else who's involved in the marketing of a book, people building websites or people who are doing the copy edits for books. Like all those people are dealing with authors all the time. Have them as a guest on the show. to tell their story about working with authors and you don't care how well that video does performance-wise on YouTube or anywhere else. You built a relationship with somebody who can introduce you to 100 authors instead of working one at a time.

I mean, that was going to be one of my, one of my questions today, Evan, was what would you start to focus on if you were in my shoes? And that actually reminds me of a quote that you had in here that I wanted to read real quick. You said something along the lines of, Okay, here it is. It's a quote from the introduction. It says, understand that your fear, your fear of failure isn't actually you being afraid of failing. It's you being afraid of failing in front of people. And it's that potential judgment that holds us back. And so I still get stuck sometimes on the size of the guest profile and are they connected? Will they promote the content? But at the end of the day, that doesn't necessarily drive revenue. It's having people on, like using the podcast as a BDR opportunity. I mean, that's so cool. I'm so happy that you brought that up.

Yeah. And listen, I know you want to promote the book and it's great. I just want to help you.

No, no, no.

It's much more fun than talking about momentum. But like, here's the thing. So one, I would have a biz dev show, like how often do you put out these episodes?

Once every week or 2. It's not consistent anymore.

Okay. Well, it's also like, it's not consistent because it's not the number one revenue driver. Sure. But if it was, if every time you went and did a show, it's generating like lots of leads for you, now it's all of a sudden consistent. So it's like, how do we make it consistent? So one is, I would have, I would have one episode, one of the 3 episodes is biz dev with somebody in the industry who might refer clients to you. Agents, editors, people who are doing the graphics for the covers, lawyers in the space, anybody who is talking, not people who do marketing because that's a competitive, like anybody else who does their social accounts, whatever. You don't want to talk to them because they're not going to refer you business. But anybody around the author who is doing it, you want them to know you because that lit agent can give you 100 authors potentially. And if you were talking to a lit agent every week on your show or every 2 weeks on your show, You know, by the end of the next year, you've got 25 lit agents that you just talked to. Like, you're going to get a lot of business as a result of that, right? Then you clip content, post to your IG, and tag them every month in the little clips that you're putting up. So you're staying top of mind with them as well. Most people only focus on the launch. This episode comes out, you tag me, I share it.

Cool.

The best part is not the launch, it's every month. So what I do is we have a list of 90 people for, for 90 days of the people that I've interviewed that I want to stay in touch with because I suck at following up with people and I just forget it. So, but like Tony Robbins and Peter Diamandis and Robin Sharma and Ryan Holiday and Deepak Chopra and like all the people I've had on my show too. And like the first is Tony Robbins Day and then the second, like January 1st is Tony Robbins Day, right? And we clip him and we share even though the interview might be 3 years old, right? We did this with Peter Diamandis, was on my show in 2019. And I clipped it and put it to my Instagram and tagged him. And he messages me back. He's like, hey, Evan, we should like, I'm doing my YouTube channel. And we start talking YouTube strategies, even though I haven't talked to him in like 3 years, right? So it's the ongoing, because it feeds the relationship. So you have your 90-day. If you're smaller, you can do 30 days, like the 30 most important people. And then the third of every month is that person day. So if you did that with agents and publishers and all the people around, then you're staying in touch with them without following up every month or every quarter so that you're staying top of mind. So that's one, that's a show that you need to put off for people in the industry and they're going to tank compared to having Grant Cardone on your channel, but it's to build relationships. And then we're creating micro content every month or every quarter tagging them. And it's the same content, like the same clip you posted. We do 2 clips. So, we'll post the same clip twice a year.

Twice a year.

Yep. Nobody remembers. They don't remember that you posted the same clip 3 months ago. Like, they have so much that's happened in the past 6 months. I mean, they don't remember the same clip and you're making a clip not of you, you're in it, but it's them talking. You're edifying them, making them look good, right? The second thing is I would make sure that in every episode with potential clients that you bring up what you do. Like, does Grant Cardone Ryan Holiday and Robin Sharma know that you have a video production agency for authors?

No, they don't.

That's a problem because that could convert the clients for you. So here's how you do it. They're on to promote a book. I actually did this with Dean Graziosi. So Dean is promoting, was promoting his new book, Underdog Advantage. You probably know it. Yeah, I didn't know what year it was. Fun book. I love Dean. And I was, that was the first time I was meeting him, was an Instagram Live. We're talking about the book and we knew of each other and stuff, but we'd never one-on-one connected. This is maybe 2018, 2019, I don't know. 11 minutes into the interview, I asked him, hey, what are you doing on your YouTube, Dean? So the first 11 minutes we're talking about the book Underdog Advantage. How are you an underdog? Why did you write this book? Why now? Like all of the author questions you ask. 11 minutes in, I say, hey Dean, what are you doing on your YouTube channel? He's like, dude, nothing. Like, our YouTube sucks.

We need help.

Cool. And then that led to a call that led to me meeting him in Arizona, me speaking. I was speaking at his event that, you know, got paid 5 figures to speak at. I was the only guest speaker besides Eric Thomas to be at this event. And it led to a lot of amazing things because at the 11-minute mark, I asked him, what are you doing on YouTube? So if you ask Grant Cardone halfway through the interview, Something like this, like, hey Grant, one of the things that we specialize in is helping authors clip content and post to social media to help promote their books because most authors really, really suck at promoting their books. And so we'll go in and film somebody and that and turn that into 100 pieces of content for their social media accounts. How do you think about promoting your book across social?

I can't believe I've never asked that in 99 episodes. Right?

And like, listen, I'm a dumbass for not recommending it to you earlier. So now we're here, but whatever, like, don't look back. We're looking forward. But like, do these people— so having a Grant or a Robin or Evan or whoever, they're all potential clients for you. So the first show is referral partners for you. The second one is potential clients, but the clients have to know what you do. Because I think of you as a guy who does a podcast, right? Like, they're not spending a ton of time researching you. So Grant's going to come on and say, okay, this guy's interviewed Robin and Evan. I'll go on. Cool. Talk about my— 10x book or whatever. Awesome. Does he know that you have a service? You know, maybe, maybe he hires you, maybe he doesn't, but at least he knows that you do this as a service that then may lead to him hiring you as a client or him referring somebody to you. And it's asked in such a way, if you— I don't remember what I said, but you can rewind it and use the same phrasing. Like, you're asking in such a way that you're still asking a question. You're not selling them on anything. You're asking for their opinion on something. And maybe they say, oh, we have it all dialed in. And here's what we do.

Cool.

Or maybe they say, oh my God, I have no idea what I'm doing. We never clip anything. Like my team sucks at this and I wish I had somebody to help me. It's like, well, hey Grant, listen, we could talk afterwards because this is like what we are kick-ass at, right? And then you keep moving on with the interview. So it's a, it's a, like, it's not a sales pitch, but they at least should know that you have a business and that it's not just about having a podcast. Yeah, 1,000%.

And even when people that aspire to be like Grant Cardone listen to that episode, they'll learn about the services. And in a natural way rather than like inserting a podcast ad in the middle that says, hey, authors looking to be like Grant Cardone, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's so cool.

Okay.

So 1/3 biz dev in the industry, bring up what I do during the podcast episode. What else do you have for me in the next 3 minutes?

Well, not, not bring up—

Ask them what they're doing. Yeah.

Yeah. Like you bring up what you do, but in a way that then brings value still to the audience. Like if I said that to Grant, Hey, so here, Grant, what, I mean, again, you're talking for 15 minutes of his book and whatever he's trying to promote, which you have to, right? And genuine questions. And you've read the book and you've done the research and you ask, you're not just like, why did you write this book? Like you're, you actually do the work, which is refreshing because most people don't put in the work, right? And then again, you're saying, hey, well, what Grant, what we specialize in is helping authors take their books and turn them into hundreds of social media content to help promote the book because most authors really struggled with the book marketing because then they have to come on to podcasts like this, which takes up a lot of their time, which they don't want to always invest into the ongoing. So we'll take an interview like this and clip it to 200 clips. Like, how do you think through your book marketing strategy? And maybe he picks the bait and talks about it. Maybe he talks about something completely different, you know, but we're framing the conversation so at least he knows what we do. The audience know what we do and it's a possibility To land the client. And if you did that every time, you might pick up 15, 20, 25% of people. What's Ryan Holiday doing for his books? I don't know. Maybe he needs somebody. You could be that guy. Hmm.

Maybe. We've got to do one sooner than 250, Evan, or I got to rush to 250.

Well, there you go. If you're doing all these industry podcasts, you're going to get there a lot faster.

Easy money. Yeah. Well, Evan, I mean, this, Oh, go ahead.

No, I mean, I know, I know we gotta go, but like, that's how you turn a— for anybody listening to, you turn a podcast into a business. So like, it's tremendous that you, you have these relationships. And in looking back, it's not to beat ourselves up, but it's like you had all these amazing guests. It's awesome. Like, how much more credibility do you have now moving forward? And now we can use it to be more strategic about using it to grow our business. And it's my bad too for never really asking, hey, what do you sell, Nick? So we've done it now. We're here and let's go make next year the best year of all time for book thinkers.

Absolutely. All right, we'll wrap up. For people that want to learn more about you and your new book, as well as Built to Serve, by the way, which is one of my top 5 most recommended books of all time, it totally changed my life. So guys, check that out. But where should people go? What should they do?

Momentum. Thank you, man. I think the only thing most people are missing is Momentum. Amazon, Easiest spot. Check it out and let me know what you think.

All right. Super cool. Evan, a million thank yous. I appreciate your time, every single second of it, and I look forward to connecting soon.

Much love, man. Thank you.

All right. Bye. That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers, Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.