118. Kristen Butler | Author of The Comfort Zone

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure Today, I have the pleasure to interview Kristen Butler, author of The Comfort Zone. Kristen is an entrepreneur, a hugely successful influencer, blogger, social media expert with over 50 million people in her community that she founded in 2009 called The Power of Positivity. If you want to upgrade your life and mindset, go check it out. She is also a wife and mother, a nature enthusiast, and a bestselling author. We talk about how Kristen went from rock bottom and bedridden to a successful entrepreneur. Why the comfort zone has been misrepresented and how you can leverage it to live your best life. If you feel like you've always had to stretch yourself and stress yourself out to succeed, this episode will unlock your mind and show you there's a different and more comfortable way to succeed. Now get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Kristen Butler.

Kristen Butler, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. How are you feeling today?

I'm doing great. How are you, Nick? Thanks for having me.

Yeah, we are. We are very excited for today's conversation. So a little bit of background information for the Book Thinkers family. A couple of weeks ago, we got to spend some time with Kristen at her house filming some video content, getting to know her and her family a little bit better. So we are well versed in the concept of the comfort zone, and we have so much fun stuff to talk about. But before we dive into it, I'd love to have you introduce yourself to everybody. Pretend that the audience doesn't know anything about you, your book, your pages, etc.?

I am the founder of Power of Positivity. I'm a bestselling author. I will— by June, I'll have 3 books out, actually: 3-Minute Positivity Journal, The Comfort Zone, and then 3-Minute Happiness Journal. I'm a proud mom, and I love hiking in Asheville, North Carolina, where I live.

So, tell us a little bit about Power of Positivity. It's a massive community, over 50 million followers cumulatively. Do I have that correct?

Yes, 50 million followers, a little more. Yeah, for sure. We're growing every day still.

Yeah, that's amazing. I have so much to learn from you there. Can you tell us, when did you start Power of Positivity and how has it grown since then?

I started Power of Positivity 14 years ago, and it was just in my 800-square-foot home where I was at that time experiencing so many life transformations from rock bottom and Positive thinking and applying a positive lifestyle was really making such a difference for me that I was excited to start sharing it with the world through Power of Positivity. And I started it on Facebook. It was just a Facebook page to start.

And were all of those domains available right off the bat? Power of Positivity?

It was, actually, and someone had just let it expire. So I was like, oh, yeah. This is like my clue, you know. I had to check the domain first.

Yeah, that was a sign from the universe, I'd say, right there. Wow. When, um, when you started, were you expecting it to build into such a huge community? Or, I mean, was that the intent behind it, to build a huge community? Or did you, did you just want to share, um, the power of positivity?

You know, I have a social background, a social media background, and so I love social media, and it just When I create a community, it just happens to grow pretty quickly. But at that moment, it was just like I just wanted to share what I was experiencing and help other people who may have been in the same situation that I was in. So I didn't really focus on like growing it to this big, huge community. It was just like, I want to help people and also keep myself accountable for what I was doing. on a daily basis.

Yeah, I think that's such a good place to start, in service to others, you know. And I think so many people start, uh, Instagrams and social medias for the purpose of trying to bolster themselves up. And I think that you hit the nail on the head with the, I just wanted to serve others and help people that were in the same situation as me. It seems like the people that I've seen that actually have really big followings and grow are about helping other people. And I love, I love your energy and How you've just— I mean, when we were spending time with you, you could just tell that you're just such a genuine, wonderful person. And I'm so excited to dive into more concepts from your book and the comfort zone and all the misconceptions around that. It's going to be— this is going to be a great episode for sure. So what inspired you? You've written 3 books, you said, right? This and The Comfort Zone is your third?

Well, yeah, it was my second technically. I do have another sequel to the journal coming out in June. You just had to throw that in there, right?

That's awesome. That's great. Well, We're excited for that as well. The first— has it gotten easier as you've written books?

Oh yeah, totally. And, you know, when you do something, your confidence grows in that. If it's something you really love, it just feels easier than it might if you, you know, didn't have the skill set and the experience.

I'd love to know what was your experience with writing your first book and how difficult was it to get out? How long did it take you versus the last book that you've done?

Yeah, The Comfort Zone has taken the longest. 3-Minute Positivity Journal, I kind of made it like a part self-help book. It's 50 pages of like information and research and, you know, my story. And then the rest of it is 60 days of morning and evening entries, journal entries that take 3 minutes a day. And It literally only took me 6 months, 6 months of very focused attention. But it was like I already knew what to put inside because it was just how I changed my life. So, it was so easy to create it.

That's amazing. So, what— who is the target reader for this new book, The Comfort Zone? Not the book coming out in June, the next, the next journal, but this book right here, The Comfort Zone. Who is the target reader for the book?

I would say anyone who feels stuck with where they are and they want to make progress or change, or on the other hand, also someone who feels overworked and burnt out and they're just tired. So, um, I provide that solution in The Comfort Zone of how to take balanced action and prioritize yourself while going after your goals and dreams.

What does— can you give us an example of unbalanced action? Because I think most people are the target reader for this book. They are uncomfortable with their daily life. They want to make progress, but maybe they're making too big of strides. Like, what does that look like?

Yeah, I think, you know, working yourself to utter exhaustion is really like it because You can be passionate about something, but you know your own life force and internal energy and when you're done. And sometimes we're not listening to those cues and we just push harder and push through or think we haven't done enough, or if we just do a little bit more, maybe we'll make more progress. But oftentimes when we're tired, we are not very productive. And in that place, we're not really even making any progress. We're kind of spinning our tires.

Yeah, the first time that I ever learned about this concept of diminishing returns, that additional work into the funnel actually leads to less productivity, was in Greg McKeown's book Essentialism. And at that time, I had subscribed to the hustle culture that you needed to work 80 hours a week. Greg said to me, and it sort of slapped me in the face at the time, hey, additional work into the funnel is not producing more results. Wake up here. You could do focused work instead. And it's a similar concept to what you're talking about. So, what are some of the other downsides of the hustle culture, and why do you think it's so influential today for young professionals?

You know, I think the statistic today is 77% of people are stressed out. I think that was just last month. It's just so many people are living stressed out, like it's just common knowledge and it's something we're supposed to do. And Feeling stressed out and busy and then kind of bragging about that to define your own worth is, is to me like ludicrous. And so feeling, feeling stressed out is really key. If you're stressed out, take time for yourself, prioritize your well-being, connect with people you love, you know, get outside in nature, just Stop, take a nap, whatever it is for you. There's so many things you can do. But the hustle culture just continues to tell you, you know, just keep going, force yourself, push yourself. And it just doesn't work. It leads to burnout. And it's a reflection of America saying that 77% of people are stressed out. That's just insane to me. It's ridiculous, really.

Yeah, on one hand, it's a surprising statistic, but on the other, When you look around and you're a part of this world, it's really not that surprising. Everybody's stressed out. I remember I used to walk around and tell people this joke back when I was in the middle of hustling 24/7. I used to say, oh, a 40-hour job? I remember my first part-time gig. And it's like, come on, that's ridiculous that we're measuring productivity based on the number of hours that we're working. That will always lead to burnout. And it certainly did for me. So what was that aha moment for you, Kristen? Can you bring us back to that? When did you first Well, maybe if I stayed in my comfort zone and I operated from a place that was more aligned with what made me happy, I could actually make more progress in my life.

You know, that realization happened over time. And it started when I was at rock bottom. I was bedridden. I had pushed myself so far to the brink of depression, panic attacks, anxiety. I was so uncomfortable because I was constantly taking myself to my limits. And in that place, I finally had to stop. My body literally paralyzed me and stopped me. And I just thought, wow, I can either give up right now or I can just try something new. And I started to ask myself, what do you need? You know, what would be fun to do today? You know, who can you connect with? How can you take care of yourself? And I just started asking myself questions, and the answers started to come up, and I started acting on those answers. And the better I felt, the better I felt, the better I felt. And I realized that coming from this place of care and safety was just so powerful. And it could— I mean, it started to heal me. And as the years went on, I started to realize, like, by prioritizing comfort, I'm not only enjoying life, but I'm also in the flow, and I'm creating in amazing ways and from that flow. So it was just over time a realization. I think it wasn't right away, but by listening to that inner wisdom, it really gave me the answers.

Now, when we were with you, you talked a little bit about being kind of that classic overachiever. You worked the 80-hour weeks and you were doing the hustle culture too. Um, I think it would be so interesting if you could almost like bridge the gap for people because I know like with me, like it's really hard for me to get in the mindset that, oh, working, you know, 4 hours a day is enough because, you know, you're, you're productive and you've done things because I'm the kind of person that just needs to constantly go, go, go, go, go, go, go to feel like I'm worth anything, to feel like I'm doing anything. And a lot of times the actions that I'm taking aren't even really productive, but I'm doing something, so therefore I feel like it's— it's— I feel like I'm doing something that's worth something. So for people like me and others that are out there just doing a lot of busy work, how did you go from that? How did you— what was that internal shift that you made that took you from that overachiever mindset of I have to constantly be doing stuff to the mindset of, oh, I don't have to be working 80 hours a week. I can just work, you know, I can work within my comfort zone. How did you go from that place to where you are today?

Wow, that's a really great question. I think prioritizing self-care and taking care of my mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual well-being gave me solutions quicker. So I didn't have to work as much as I used to because I was in a better, more aligned place. And so Even now, if I can't figure something out pretty quick, I like to make quick decisions. Sometimes when I can't or have the solution come pretty quickly, I'll just go outside or, you know, do something I love because the answer will come to me instead of working longer or trying harder. I don't really like when things aren't working out because I know they could work easier. So I find how I can make that work for me. So when you start kind of letting this flow happen, and then when you feel the resistance, you're like, okay, you just kind of get to know yourself and know what your limit is, I think. And when you trust that, and everyone's different, you really start to get the right answers and give yourself permission to not work as much because you're like, I don't need to because I don't want to get to this place that takes me over the edge, whatever that is for you. You know, everyone is different.

There are probably a lot of people listening today that say, okay, I'm overweight, I'm under-earning, I'm not happy with the job that I'm in, the people around me, you know, I'm uncomfortable with how they treat me, my relationships aren't great. And they're wondering, like, what are some of the first steps to becoming more comfortable? Because it worked for you, Kristen, you've written this book about it. What are some of the first steps? What are some of the first ways that people can become more aware of what makes them happy and comfortable?

In the book, I, I have a lot of exercises and questions so that you can personally go within and find what that is for you. And like I said, asking what would be fun today, you know, what's fun for me might be different for what's fun for you, or what you feel passionate about to work on is going to be different for both of us. So finding out Where are my skill sets? What do I like to do? Where do I like to be? Where do I like to work? You know, just really questioning and going within. I think we don't stop enough and do that and have that self-awareness, because when we have that self-awareness, we don't have to listen to the directions and paths that others are trying to guide us on. We can say, I trust this path. This is my path, and this is the way that I want to go. So for me, I realized that, okay, I'm great at social media. I love working at home. Some people— my sister hates the computer. You know, she's like, oh my gosh, I'm a people person. I like going door to door. I would never go door to door. Everyone is different. So I think getting to know yourself and the things that you love to do, that's how you can create that own— your own internal flow, then your own schedule that you love. Because it's really about waking up and wanting to do what you do and loving it. And when you feel like that, you don't feel overworked. Even days that I might work longer or later, I love what I'm doing and it doesn't feel exhausting. Sometimes I actually feel more energized because it was something that I was passionate about. I hope that answers your question.

It does. It does. I know Luke's got a question too. I want to kind of wrap up this and maybe it'll put us down a rabbit hole. Who knows? But if 77% of people are stressed out, and if— I mean, virtually everybody I know, when they transition from school into the working world, they're working jobs that they don't necessarily enjoy, and they end up overworking themselves. I tend to think that that comes from a structural issue with our public education system, that we're teaching people to do work that they don't enjoy, and then we're judging them on it. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts of like where this concept of hustle culture stems from and ways to combat it, maybe.

Yeah, I think we're kind of born into a system that tells us what we need to do and what we need to know and never asks us what would be comfortable for us or what we want to do. And so when you're kind of born into that system, I mean, things are changing. There's, you know, different options for schooling and things like that, but Predominantly, our society kind of just tells you what you need to do, and you're kind of used to kind of being obedient and following suit. And so it takes some deep thinking and questioning of, do I even want to do this? You know, what do I want to do? How much do I want to work? Where is my worth and my value? And yeah, I think it definitely stems from just being part of the system and making a conscious, intentional effort to get out of that way of thinking and being. It's not always easy. For me, I always had an entrepreneurial spirit, and I always kind of went against the grain in a way, as far as work and things like that. So I, I don't know, I think some people do like that structure, and then some people don't. Everyone's different.

All right, I'll wrap up with this then. Sorry, Luke, to cut you off again. I'm just so curious, like, how are you taking that into account as a parent with the young kids. Luke is also a parent with young kids. He's taking an alternative path with them, which maybe he could share after I shut up and stop talking. But I'm curious, like, how are you taking that system that leads— that has a 77% success rate of leading to stress? How are you combating that or looking at that as a parent?

I ask my kids a lot of times things that they, they want to do or love to do. And I kind of watch, like, where are their passions and where are their skill sets? And I don't necessarily tell them what I think they should do. I just kind of like let them know, like, hey, you're really good at this. Or, you know, I notice you get so happy when you do this. My daughter is right now doing ventriloquism. Very rare number of people that do it. She's very skilled at it. She loves to entertain. And I just support them in the things that they want to do, at least let them try it and then encourage them and let them know that they can think outside of the box and they can do things differently and be who they really are and not what other people are telling them they should do or who they are. So I think just to answer your question, I just allow them to be who they are and embrace that personality and then use that. Because if we— we have the most time with them as parents, and so we get to kind of guide that the most. And I think school choices are also important too. There's a lot of different options for schooling today, which is amazing. I didn't have as many choices when I was a child. So there's so many different ways that we can embrace that.

I think it's so cool that we're here having a conversation about doing what you want. I, I tell people, I literally tell people this all the time, like, we live in such an amazing time in history that you can literally, you can make money doing whatever it is that you enjoy. Social media has given us the leverage to be able to do that. And I, I, I think it's, it's so cool because, you know, we used to— not even that long ago, you were born into a family and they may have been, you know, a blacksmith or whatever it was, a farmer, and you just did what your dad did and that was it. You didn't really have a choice. But it's so cool that we are able to now have the conversation that you, you don't have to sit here and do what everyone else is doing. You can just go down your own path. And I just think that's So exciting. I get really excited with my kids as well, just seeing their interests and kind of doing the same thing, like guiding them in a way that that aligns with who they are. My son, he's a really great. He's just an artist, man. The kid can draw like no other. I it always blows me away. He's six years old, but it's just, and I you know he's my son, so I'm a little biased. But it just blows me away because like when I was his age, I could barely do stick people, you know. And he's like sitting here doing these elaborate drawings and comic books and all this crazy stuff. So I just think it's so cool. cool that I can tell him, man, you could probably make money doing this, which is really cool because I don't even know if I could have, you know, my dad definitely couldn't have done that and I don't even know if I could have done that at a younger age. So it's really cool that we're here having this conversation about doing what you want, not what you have to do. And I think it's, that's just another thing in society that we just haven't adjusted to. Like we're still in this process of adjusting to this new world because it is so young that that, you know, probably in the last like 20 years that you can get on YouTube and be a lizard literally and make money doing that, getting tons of views. I literally know of a social media influencer that dresses up as a lizard and they apparently they get tons of views and make a lot of money doing that, which is just, again, just mind-blowing.

Yeah.

So going a little bit, maybe going a little bit deeper into, into, um, doing what you want, how can we start to reframe our mind, in your opinion, like our mind around how we look at the career path that we take? Like, what is, what is a way that we can reframe and kind of break free from the old norm? Do you have any advice around that for our listeners?

Yeah, for me, it was just kind of following what felt good and where I wanted to— when, when something didn't feel right, I was like, you know, for example, I was in journalism in college. And everyone said to me, well, You know, when you start, you always have to go to those like crime scenes or like a car accident or something, and that's the way you have to do it. That's how you start. Because I wanted to work for a magazine, I was like, oh, I want to be an editor for a magazine. And, you know, everyone would say, oh, you know, you have to work your way to the top. That doesn't work, you know. And that just never resonated with me. You know, people always have an opinion, and you can take that opinion or you can create your own opinion. And I think maybe some of my success has been because I'm I just create my own opinion sometimes, and I go with that. And that's okay because it's my life. And the times when things weren't working out for me, it was because I was listening and people pleasing and trying to do what other people were telling me would be best for me. And while they may have cared and wanted to guide me in a direction, it wasn't my path. And I think when you're not following your path, things aren't really working out so well sometimes. So trusting that you have a path And following that and listening to the cues. You know, it takes practice and it takes work, but it's so fun to me.

Fun. That is, that is the word. I, I tell you what, I have been following more things that are fun in my life, and life just becomes more enjoyable that way, you know? And you're exactly right. We follow so many of these preprogrammed things, and we listen to our parents' opinions, we listen to other— our friends' opinions and our siblings, all these people. that are telling us this one way of doing things. And from all the books I've read, from everything I've seen from successful people like you and others, I see that there's actually not this perfect path that you can follow. You can, you can just jump right past all the, you know, like you were saying, journaling, doing journalism and going to the car accidents. You don't have to do that. You can just skip that altogether if you want. There are different ways to do things. And I, and I love that. You talk about— this might be a good segue— you talk about in your book, you talk about this concept of the expanded self. I would love to know what that is. And maybe you can explain it to our listeners a little bit and just your thoughts around that and that whole concept.

So in the book, I talk about the expanded self. And essentially, some people may call that like your alter ego. But it's really to me, who you truly want to be, that next level version of you. And so I have created so many next level versions of myself, my expanded self. And even Marilyn Monroe, I share this in my book, she embraced her expanded self. And she was in a city and walking around with a friend. And no one knew who she was. She had sunglasses on. And all of a sudden, she said, hey, do you want to see it? Do you want to see, see it happen or something like that? You know? And he said, sure. All of a sudden she got into character Marilyn Monroe and everybody noticed it was her. You know, it doesn't have to be that dramatic, but essentially whoever it is that we want to be, we want to start being that person today through our habits. And so in the book, I talk about visualizing What does that person wear? What do they look like? Where do they live? What are they doing? Who are they around? Just kind of dreaming and sitting in that and savoring the feelings of all those emotions in that visualization. I mean, we did this as children. Why can't we continue to do it as adults? Because I found that this is one of the best and easiest ways to move from where you are to where you want to be is through the feelings of visualization. And You know, first it's the feelings, but then next it's the actions. So what does that person do, and how can I do that every day, just a little bit? You know, no pressure. You don't have to be perfect, but just implementing the habits of that person. For me, writing a book, I had to write more. I had to connect with other people who wrote books and could help. There's just so many ways that we can develop ourselves and Visualizing your expanded self is a very fun way, if you want to say, um, to do it.

So I love this subject. We were recently interviewing someone, Kristen, and she said that, uh, for a long time she ran an executive search company. So if somebody was hiring a COO for a division, they would hire her company to go out and interview a bunch of external candidates as well as some internal candidates. And what would happen with the internal candidates is they would visualize themselves getting this new role and they would start dressing differently, talking differently. They would start consuming different types of information. They became a different person. And if they didn't get the role, 9 times out of 10, they would leave because they had already assumed this new identity. They had already expanded themselves to fulfill this new type of role. And if they didn't get the position, they had to go achieve it somewhere else because that now they knew they were living under their potential. They knew they were capable of doing more. And I think that's what a book like yours can do for people. It can show them there are these visualization tools. And once you start to experience what it feels like, even from a distance, this new higher version of yourself, it's impossible to go back. Every morning when you get out of bed, you'll start to fulfill that role. With those actions that you talk about.

Yeah, perfect. You said that so well. And I love that, you know, that whole story, because once you get to that place, it's like you have the confidence and you have the skill set and the tools, and it's like, this is who I am. And so I love that you shared that. Thank you.

All right. I'll wrap up with a sad version of this story. So we were just with you a couple of weeks ago. On my way back, I had a layover in Charlotte. So from Charlotte back to Boston, I, I was sitting in an exit row seat. It was great. I had some extra legroom. They came over to me and said, hey, you're next in line status-wise to get upgraded to first. It doesn't look like this person's going to make it. Would you like to come up to first flying back home? So I said, yeah, of course. So I go up there and now I'm a first-class person. Okay. I walk past everybody. I'm feeling great. I'm feeling like a million bucks. I assume this new identity. I'm in first class. Then they come up to me 5 minutes later after serving a drink and everything, just water, but they come and they say, hey, actually, this person just ran up to the gate, we're gonna let them on. Sorry, you've got to go back to your other seat. Now I have to do this walk of shame all the way back to the back exit row where I was before, and I was perfectly happy. But then this new expanded self stepped in for 5 minutes, and now I was upset with the seat that I was originally happy with. So it's just a short, brief example of how fast your identity can change and your expectations can change.

I love that. So many people do say fly first class and you'll never— that's a perfect example, right? Oh my gosh.

I know it was tough. It was tough.

I see that so many times though. I love Alex Hormozi. He has this concept. It's pretty much the same thing, but it's be, do, have. And to become the person you want to become, you have to first be that person. So you have to, like you just said, you have to have the habits of that person. You have to act as that person would act. You have to dress as that person would dress, and then you have to do the things that they would do on a daily basis. For instance, if you want to become somebody that is in shape, you know, that means you don't eat junk food, you go to the gym, you're active. Like, you have to become that person, and then you have to do those things, and then the, the in-shape body, the weight loss, all of that stuff follows. And I think so many times, like, Like, we get— you know what, Nick, that was actually perfect because we get caught up in this new identity, right? And then things come at us, life comes at us and pushes us. Like, you know, you get tempted by that cookie and you eat that cookie and then you're defeated for a little while. So because you ate that cookie and gave in, obviously. But, um, I'm wondering, what is your— what is your advice to people that do that, get into that expanded self, they're doing the things, but then they, they have a major setback? Like, what do, what do they do? A lot of people, I know myself, there's been many times that I've just spiraled. I've spiraled down. You eat that cookie and it's like, oh, the whole day's ruined, so now I'm gonna binge eat and go down this, this horrible path. But what are your— what's your advice to people who keep getting pushed down?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that we do need to stop shaming ourselves, and that is one of the ways that we can really fall Backwards quickly is through shame that we're not doing enough, that we shouldn't have done that. And being in the moment and knowing if it happens and just being okay with it, and somehow in your mind saying, you know, you know, I guess in some way kind of making it okay, even if it's not, or that you did do enough. It depends on the situation. But as far as a cookie, don't shame yourself for the one cookie and know that, you know, it's not going to make a huge difference if. going to become your identity. You're not going to eat cookies every day. But just giving yourself permission to not be perfect because perfection can lead you backwards as well, always striving for perfection. You know, I like to do my best but know like, oh my gosh, I am definitely human and I make mistakes and that's okay. And being okay with that. Before, I used to beat myself up so much. And that was difficult, but it was easy to just give— start giving myself permission to just be human.

Yeah.

And I think that's part— that's part of the, you know, that's part of the comfort zone, right? It's like staying within, within who you are and not expanding too quickly and trying to be like— it's like, oh, you know, I'm out of shape and now I got to be in this, this in-shape person. So I'm going to do everything perfectly for the next however long. And we see that every year in January when people make the resolution to, to, to get healthy. And, you know, for a month they're doing everything that person should do, and then they realize, you know, the month in February that they cannot keep it up. It's unsustainable. So do you have— yes. What are your, what are your thoughts around keeping it, keeping that new person, that expanded self sustainable within who you are, within your comfort zone?

Yeah, growth is not a perfect process. And I think that's what people think that it looks like, because some of the best people make it look easy, you know, and their lives look perfect. So to— so you asked, how can we stay in our comfort zone and expand? So in the book, I share a process called acclimation. And it's really How we grow. And it's not a perfect process, but it's a process that will get you there if you stick with it. So it's 3 phases. The first phase feels unfamiliar and uncomfortable. You're trying something new, but it's something you want to do. And with practice and over time, you move to the second phase, which is familiar. You've started to do some of it and get used to it, and it's starting to come into your comfort zone. But you're still a little uncomfortable with it. And then the third phase, you're familiar and you're comfortable with it. That's when you've really kind of nailed something. It's part of your identity. It's, you know, it's— you're probably taking like habitual action in that area, whatever that is. And you've— you're in the flow when you're doing it. So if we can be gentle with ourselves and know that the growth process is not perfect and it's not 100% comfortable, we live in a world of duality, it just gives us permission to continue going, knowing that we're going to have ups and downs, but in a year, things are going to be completely different.

I'm curious, throughout your journey building this community and experiencing all the success that you've had over the last 10+ years, what percentage of the time have you been in your comfort zone? Hello, Book Thinkers family. A quick word from today's podcast sponsor. Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audiobooks ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, business, and my favorite, personal development. And as part of Audible's partnership with us, we're actually offering listeners a free 30-day trial. This trial includes 1 credit good for any premium selection titles you'd like on the whole platform. So that's pretty much any book, including the one we're talking about today. That book is yours to keep even after the trial is over. Now, this trial also includes access to Audible's Plus catalog of podcasts, audiobooks, guided wellness programs, and Audible Originals. You can listen all you want, no credits needed. Now, everyone on the Book Thinkers Instagram knows that I love physical paper books. There's nothing better than having a book in your hand, scribbling notes everywhere in the margins. I kind of tear those things up. But I've been completing an additional 20 to 30 books every single year using Audible by listening when I'm in the car, doing chores around the house, or while I'm on my morning walks or runs. You could take advantage of this free trial by clicking the link in today's show notes or going to www.bookthinkers.com/audibletrial. You will not regret it. Now back to today's episode.

Wow, that's a good question. I would say a lot of it, honestly. And I was using the acclimation process. So by using— knowing, like, when I first started doing podcasts, I'm like, okay, I'm not too crazy about doing these. It's a little uncomfortable and unfamiliar, but I'm going to learn, you know? And I just embraced that whole thing and knew I'm not going to show up perfect and it's not going to be me 100% on point. I just am going to do it. And I'm going through the phases, for example, like podcasting and public speaking, and I'm getting better and better and I'm getting more comfortable and it's coming into my comfort zone. So I feel like I'm in my comfort zone. I'm just expanding it often, writing this book, doing these podcasts, going on, you know, TV and radio and things like that. So it's I feel like I'm in my comfort zone all the time, but I'm definitely at the edge and growing often. If that answers your question.

It totally does. I've shared this example on the podcast a couple of times, so bear with me, anybody that's heard it before. But I went from extremely socially anxious and uncomfortable as a kid, a very poor communicator, to where I am today, which is somebody who's made a lot of progress, still a lot more progress to go. And I didn't do that by getting outside of my comfort zone every day. I did that by playing on that edge. And so for me, when I was in college, I had a door-to-door sales job. So it wasn't 10,000 interactions all at once, but it was 10,000 individual interactions on a smaller scale where I could improve and collect feedback and make changes. Every time I knocked on a door. Then I worked in some phone sales and I improved that ability to communicate and I became more comfortable with it over time. Then I took some public speaking classes in college. Then I took Toastmasters public speaking classes. All of that before I got on a stage or hosted a podcast. And so I did a lot of work behind the scenes flirting that line at the edge of my comfort zone. And as a result, I was able to grow. So when people reach out and they say, hey, I'd like to improve my ability to communicate, I don't say do all of this stuff tomorrow, but take a while and play with it and grow and experience a little bit of difficulty, but not too much that you burn out.

Yeah, I love that. And it's important that you share that because sometimes when you look at someone, you say, wow, they just must be really good at that. Oftentimes they're not. There's so much behind the scenes and this process that takes them to where they want to be. And if we can give ourselves permission to do that and take that time and take those actions very intentionally, we can get to exactly where we want to be.

Yeah. And that's why it's important that people like you who are successful and that we all want to be like write these books and open up the curtains and be vulnerable and share about those rock-bottom moments because it makes it seem more accessible for the average person. I don't like the gap between the ultra-successful and the average person because it seems like it's impossible to close, but it's really not. Everybody was an average person at some point or another.

Yeah, I think those bottom moments and the top moments, they just give you this perspective that you're like, wow, you know, this is how you bridge it. And when you share it, other people can realize, wow, I just need to kind of walk through the process.

It's certainly a process. I was going to give a little example of myself too. This podcast, for instance, you know, like, I am not like, this is not comfortable for me in a lot of ways, but I do love having conversations with people. I do love asking people questions. I am curious about people. So this is just a little more, a little bit more of a public way to do that. And when I first got on the podcast, I was like, I was so, so nervous, just so nervous. And I have a lot to improve still. I talk a little bit too fast. I ramble a little bit too much. But everyone that is listening to the podcast has seen my progression over time. I don't know how many I've done now, but however many I've done, I've gotten a lot better than I was at the beginning. Still have a long way to go, but it's a good example of that expanding from your comfort zone. Because again, there was that familiarity, there was that comfort in having conversations with people and asking people questions. I do that the time anyway. And then now it's just a little bit more public, which is okay. So I agree with both of you. Like, I love the, the opening up of the behind the scenes and seeing that, you know what, they're just a normal person. They started exactly where you started and they aren't where they want to be yet, but it's a slow process of growth. And I think it's cool to also just show people that like, hey, you know what, it is a process. I started back here and I know you're seeing social media, you're seeing all the highlights And you see me as this perfect person, but I'm not. And that's okay. Like, that's, that's where you need to start. You need to start somewhere. You need to start somewhere. And I'm always just encouraging people to do that, you know? So we're coming up on an hour here, and I, I just want to ask a few more questions around the book, and then maybe Nick can— we can, uh, start to wrap it up for Kristen. Um, so, you know, we have— you have so many awesome concepts in your book that we won't get to today, and that's okay. Uh, but the, the big thing that I wanted to ask about was, I guess it's around that we've, we've talked a little bit about that expanded self. Um, how can— what's something very like practical that somebody starting from that bottom point today, they're listening to this podcast, they're like, man, I'm never going to get to where Kristen is. What is something very practical that they can do to get themselves out of bed, to get themselves started?

Gratitude, as often as people talk about, is just number one for me. And I'll always say it because it's really what happened in that place. And I was so discouraged and wanted to give up. And then I realized, hey, I still have my breath. I'm laying in this bed. You know, I have a roof over my head. There are people who care about me. And that is at a very low point. But it can, it can help you on a bad day. You know, you're going to have, you know, bad moments, but it doesn't have to be a bad day if you can end it with, hey, what did go right? And then writing that or thinking about it or kind of savoring the feelings about what did go right, because you create such momentum with gratitude and it can carry you, you know, to have a better night's sleep, to into the next day, to have a better week, to have a better month, to have a better year. It's so simple and it's completely free and it— why not? It feels so good, like savoring in good moments. It's just so easy, but it really works.

What's your daily gratitude practice look like right now?

When I first started, you know, I was writing down 10 things every morning, you know, like everyone says, the experts say, right? I think Bob Proctor was like, write 10 things that you're grateful for, right? And at first I thought, I don't know about this. Like, is this really going to make a difference, you know, writing it down? But over time, It made such a difference, not just in my feeling, but then I started to see results in my life. And now I've been doing it well over a decade, really kind of making it just ingrained in my daily habits. And so I'll just wake up and just feel grateful. It's just kind of like an automatic thing, you know, when you have like just automatic habits that you just— that's what you do. So, you know, I'll just savor the feelings of, wow, it's a beautiful day. You know, I love the mountains. I'm going to get to start doing work that I love. And just get excited around that and feel really good about the things that are going right. It just sets the tone. It's just amazing.

Yeah.

And I've shared a couple of stories about myself today. I don't mean to hog the mic much, Kristen, but to share the importance of gratitude with everybody, I started by journaling 3 things that I was grateful for every single day in a notebook. And I did that when I first started. For a couple of years, pretty much every single day, and it mattered so much to me that now I have a bunch of gratitude-related tattoos. So I have the numbers one, two, and three on this wrist. Every single time I see those numbers, I think of gratitude. On the back of my wrist right here, I have agradecido, which is gratitude in Spanish, and it's also a tattoo that I got while traveling internationally, which reminds me of two different forms of gratitude. And I have a bunch of them all over my body, pretty much, because that's how much gratitude has helped my life. It's put me in this place where I feel much more stable. I have a solid foundation. And when a Lamborghini flies by me on the highway, I don't think, oh man, I wish I had that Lamborghini. Nowadays, I look at my own steering wheel and I go, so grateful that I have a car in the first place. And that's a— it sounds kind of airy-fairy and that I'm making that up, but I'm not. That's the default feeling that I've wired into my brain. And gratitude is so important, and I love that you brought that up.

Oh, wow. That's amazing. You got tattoos. That's— wow, that's taking it to the next level. You're like putting it in, you know, ingrained. I love that. No, it is that important. And, you know, sometimes people listen and they think, I don't know, it just sounds too easy or too woo-woo. But yeah, it is easy, and that's why it's so amazing. You don't have to spend a lot of money to feel good. Like, use your imagination. And then, like, and yeah, when you're looking at what someone else has, you're not, like, jealous. You don't even have jealous feelings because you're just so grateful for what you have. And you expand from that place. Like, if you do want something more, it's not from a place of jealousy or competition. It's like, this would be fun. Let's do that. I can do that, you know, or I want that. And it's just this huge positive ripple. I love that.

Yeah.

And I—

but Luke, before we wrap it up, because I want to go a few more minutes, there's a concept, Kristen, that we talked about at your house. And I'll see if I can do a good job articulating this because it was the first time I'd really heard somebody talk about it this way. And it's the concept that, like, you are not alone in the work that you were doing. We're kind of talking about, like, the muse, like that there's this creativity that exists out in the world and you can be a vessel for it to sort of flow through you. And you were saying that when you're doing this work, it's almost— or we were also talking about how it relates to The Secret, this concept of the law of attraction. And you were saying, well, you're also sort of doing God's work at the same time. And so I want to, I want to hear you talk a little bit more about that because I thought it was fascinating. And I've also thought about that conversation a couple times since we had it.

I completely was on board at one time. But now I like to think of it as co-creating. Because when you, you're manifesting, it feels just like you're, you're doing it on your own. It's all up to you. It's, it's your journey. But I like to think of it as co-creating. And it's just such a great shift for me, because I know that I'm not doing it alone. There's a path that I am walking that is safe That is for me, that is on my side, that is going to help me when I am tired or, you know, done, you know. And I can trust that path and know that it's not all up to me. There is a higher purpose, there's a greater plan. And I can also ask for creativity or ask for more energy or whatever, you know. It's like just being spiritually connected and then diving into that every day and using, you know, being a vessel for God and using that in my work is just so powerful because it gives me so much purpose. But it also gives me so much security and safety and positive energy. It's, you know, I'm sure you know what I mean. It's just hard to describe, but it feels like almost selfless, like the work that you're doing is selfless because you're just kind of being a channel almost of what is needed in the world. And I like to think of it that way so that it's not all on me every day that I have to do it all, wake up, and, you know, I'm only human. So I love that divine energy to help me out.

That's a beautiful way to put it. You're a channel. Yeah, I like that concept a lot, the co-creation. I thought about that conversation quite a few times too, and I've actually talked to my wife about And everything. And I think it does, it takes a lot of the pressure off of yourself and then it gives you that, that higher, higher purpose. Kind of going something, I guess next would be, have you achieved everything that you set out to achieve? And have you made it to that point that you're like, I've made it, I've arrived, I don't need to strive anymore, here I am, I don't want to go any further? Or do you feel like there's still a lot left for you to, to accomplish and achieve?

You know, I feel like I've just gotten started, and I hope that doesn't sound like I'm being, um, whatever the word would be. But, you know, 77% of people feel stressed. The world is just, you know, even though I feel good, other people don't. And there's so much work that needs to be done. There's so much poverty and mental health issues. And so, yeah, my work isn't done. You know, there's still more people to reach and help and serve. And so I won't be done until, You know, I— my husband had said like, well, when do you think you'll retire? And I'm like, when I'm dead? I don't know. I'm always gonna have a passion to do something. It's just me. That's just what's gonna be. And there's always gonna be, um, ways to help or ways to serve and time to relax too and enjoy this life and enjoy nature and enjoy this earth while I'm here. So I think that, no, I'll never just be at this one point. That would be so boring.

What are some of the things that you're focused on expanding right now? So flirting that line between comfort and discomfort, uh, what are some of the areas in your life that you're looking to grow in?

Currently, I am growing in amplifying my message and voice, you know, with the comfort zone. So doing media appearances, doing events, And, you know, connecting in a deeper, bigger way with my community.

I love that. I mean, it's a big community. Have you ever heard somebody say, oh, are you worried if you're getting 100 likes? You know, imagine speaking to a room full of 100 people. I can only imagine what that's like in terms of your monthly impressions. You're speaking to entire nations every single month through your content, which is really cool to think about.

Yeah, I try not to think so big like that, right? That's like, whoa, wow.

Yeah, I'm excited.

Definitely blows my mind.

I'm excited for you to get this message out there more because I think it's a very positive one. I think it's needed. I think that, you know, there is this period in time where the world started to strive and do more, especially in the United States, and maybe we overdid that. We need to kind of come back to equilibrium. And, and you're fighting the good fight as far as that's concerned. So I'm excited that you're put— you're, you're putting this message out there, you're talking about it, you're helping people like me and Luke articulate what we believed in a better, more digestible way. Because I think that we've always kind of felt you could do more with less, and that you don't need to burn out. And your book gives us a a way to express that better and recommend it to our audience, which is super cool.

Yeah, thank you. I just want to take positivity to the next level. So if we really want to redefine the words that we use, you know, comfort needs to be a comfortable thing, and we need to enjoy this journey and feel good about what we're doing. Like, why would we avoid comfort if we're working every day for it? Just seems like madness to me. So I want to help change that. And I think maybe people are keeping themselves from where they want to be because of their shame around comfort. So I want to break down those barriers for them and help them.

Out of curiosity, how many podcasts did it take for you to feel a little bit more confident? You know, you get on the first couple, you don't really know how this is going to go. You're not confident in your voice, whatever the case is, but you're flirting that line. You're expanding yourself. How many podcasts did it take Before you felt better?

Yeah, I think a few, doing them consistently. But also I did RTT with Marissa Peer, and that was because I was feeling like at a stuck place, like, wow, this is something I want to do, but maybe how can I actually harness this? And so going back into my subconscious and finding out that there was some limiting beliefs from when I was a child that I have never even thought about those memories before, but they were stuck in there and they were keeping me from you know, using my voice and articulating what I wanted and feeling good about it. And when we got those out of there, and then I used like an affirmation recording that I still listen to— I listened to before this podcast— it really changed things. Because at first when I started listening to it, I was like, wow, people want to hear what I have to say? I don't know about that. Maybe not. I'm not sure, you know. And now it's like, yes, people want to hear because it's going to help them and I want to help people. So Practice, yes. But if practice isn't working, you need to heal or find out where the block is, because we all have blocks, and we may not even be aware of them. So I'm all about clearing blocks and then moving forward. And when I have that stuck situation, I don't blame myself. I kind of go in and see like, hey, where's this hanging out that I can help?

You know? Yeah, I love that. We've had Marissa on the show before to talk a little bit about RTT, and she provides so much value. So rather than ask you to define it and give us a little bit more context. Just everybody go check that out. Yeah, Luke, I'll kick it back over to you.

Yeah, you know, Kristen, thank you so much for being on this show. It's been awesome learning from you. And I know this is going to help change a lot of lives for sure. I think it's so cool to see someone like you who has reached such a— to us, like such a high level of success. And I think to a lot of other people as well, well, um, to see that you can actually do that from your comfort zone. And that is such a cool, important message. And I, I— listen, I want to get this message out to as many people as possible because I think we do live in a society where it glorifies and glamorizes this burnout culture. And you know what, a lot of— I know a lot of people that have literally mental health disorders because of that whole culture. And I think it's, it's a great thing that you're doing. Kind of putting a different lens on it and showing people that, hey, you know what, you can, you can do what you want. You can have great, you can achieve greatness from that place of comfort. And that is so cool. So thank you so much for sharing that. I have one final question, Nick, if you want to do, if you don't have anything else, I'll, I can wrap it up with this one.

Yeah, maybe we'll have to do a part 2 to this conversation because there's so many other subjects that I wanted to talk about. But yeah, Luke, Luke always finishes out with this amazing question. So, I'm curious what your answer is going to be. All right.

I'm trying to get this more concise and simpler as I go. And maybe one day I'll get there. But the basic premise is, you know, you pass on and all the information that you've put out, your community goes away, everything is gone, your books, everything is gone. But you're allowed to leave the world with one simple singular piece of advice. What would it be?

Love life. I think that's where it comes down to, is just love life.

I think so too.

Yeah, you know what, we all, we all, we all can use more love in our life. I mean, and loving life too. I'm, uh, one more story. I'm out in Colorado right now, and I love it, love it, love it here. And I'm trying to cultivate more love, love of life in my own life. And, uh, coming out here was a big part of that. So So I've been here for the last about a month, and it's just been wonderful. So I'm going to get my family out here officially sometime this year, probably. But love life.

Yeah, do it. Bruce Lipton, he talks about the honeymoon effect, which I just totally love because he says those feelings on your honeymoon, you can have those every day in the work that you're doing and just whatever it is that you're passionate about. And that is just so powerful to me because the energy behind that really reflects And so you're feeling like you're loving it out there and you want to get your family out there and you're passionate and you're just creating so much positive energy in that, that just like, stay in that because that's cool.

Yeah, it is. And it's been, it's been really awesome just seeing the iterations of my life and how I went from this place of doing miserable work that I hated to this place of I'm doing work that I actually really love and I get up and I don't dread it. And it's so cool.

Good job, Nick.

Yeah, exactly.

Luke's been an amazing addition to the team and I, you know, we'll tell you this story and I guess we'll keep this in the podcast because I think it's important. But, you know, Luke reached out to me at one point as a member of the Book Thinkers community and just said, hey, I'm making pretty decent money, but I don't love the culture at the job that I'm working at. And so could we figure something out? And I said, well, you might have to take a step back and financial currency, but Luke was like, but I would take a big step forward in culture currency and comfort currency and all these other currencies that people don't necessarily think about. And that's been the result so far. It's been amazing. It's like, I'm so happy that Luke has a place that makes him feel happier. And that's been the word, that's been the theme of my last month is enjoying the passage of time. time, what variables do we have control over that lead to more joy and more comfort? They're synonyms in the way that we talk about them, Kristen.

Exactly.

So, I think about gratitude. I think about, you know, memento mori, sort of the limited time that we have on this planet. I think about the honeymoon effect, just making sure that you can feel that way every single day. I think about being aligned with, with my core values, which is one of the ways that I define the comfort zone. And yeah, it just leads to joy. It leads to just feeling good, and that's what matters.

Yes, well said. Perfect.

Enjoy the passage of time. All right, for those in the audience that want to learn a little bit more about you, your communities, your books, everything that you've got going on, where should they go? What should they do?

Yeah, I just launched positivekristin.com, and I'm so excited about it. It's a gorgeous website. You can connect with me on social media there. I've got all the buttons, and I've got a quiz to find out, are you in your comfort zone? So you can get on there, take it. It's free, and it can kind of give you good insight to where you are and where you can go.

I recommend taking the quiz, everybody. I took it, and I could definitely see the value there. So, Kristen, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I can't wait to continue to collaborate.

Yes. Thank you so much, both of you. I appreciate it.

Appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thank you.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives. and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something. Something.