121. Gunnar Andri | Author of Message from The Middle of Nowhere

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors. As a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. This week, Book Thinkers founder Nicholas Hutchinson sits down in Iceland with Icelandic author and businessman Gunnar Andri. For over 25 years, Gunnar has been a key player in the business of sales in Iceland, specializing in personal development. Today's conversation is about the follow-up to Gunnar's first book, Message from the Middle of Nowhere. It's called Message from the Hidden People. Gunnar will explain how he decided to make his follow-up book a fictional adventure novel about some of the amazing folklore and history of Iceland. While still weaving in his personal development message. Join Nick and Gunnar as they discuss some of the fantastic stories and locations of Iceland. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Gunnar Andrí.

Gunnar, welcome to The Book Thinker's Life-Changing Books Podcast, man. How are you feeling today?

Fantastic. Thank you, Nick. Yeah.

So a little bit of backstory for everybody. Gunnar's been on the podcast before. During our first episode, we talked about Message from the Middle of Nowhere. which is Icelandic Viking Philosophy for Conquering the Challenges of Business and Life. And so that was recently. What was that, over the summer?

Yeah, last summer. Not a long time ago.

Not a long time ago. And so I found myself in Iceland again because this place is beautiful. And I thought, you know what, I know Gunnar has his next book finished already. And since I'm in Iceland, I've got to interview him about it. Tell everybody a little bit about it. So that's what we're here to talk about today.

Yes, what do you want to know?

Well, first off, let's tell everybody a little bit about who you are in case they didn't listen to the first episode, and then we can dive into the next book. So why don't you introduce yourself to everybody?

Yes, like you say, my name is Gunnar Andri Thorisson, in Icelandic Thorisson. I'm an author, speaker. I've been doing that here in Iceland for over 25 years, 26 years now. Yeah, entrepreneur. I'm in business. And what can I say? I have one daughter. She's grown up. She lives in Stockholm. And that's it.

And what's a quick summary of the first book for everybody? What could they— what can they expect to learn if they decide to read this, Message from the Middle of Nowhere?

You know, learn a lot of things about Iceland. And I use my life story to bring the message in the book. And what they will learn and realize that one of the most important things in life is persistence. So they will learn a lot about Iceland and also get, I think, great message from the Iceland way of thinking.

I like the Iceland way of thinking. So I have heard rumors of this next book. I know that you finished it. I know it is a little bit different, so why don't you tell everybody What is the title of the next book?

The title is similar, but it's Message from the Hidden People.

Message from the Hidden People.

Yeah.

What is the message from the hidden people?

They are many, and really, we can say to simplify this, is that goes into, you know, a lot of things about attitude, a lot of things about knowledge and how important it is, a lot of things about persistence. A lot of things about, you know, don't give up. But it's a book about mainly hope. We can say that.

It's a book about hope.

Yeah.

Now, your first book, Message from the Middle of Nowhere, was nonfiction, right? So it detailed your journey growing up, a lot of the sales strategies about persistence and hope using your life as an example. What's different about the next book?

It's totally different because it's a novel and this is a story. This is the adventure. And I mix now into it not the true stories from my life, but I mix into it all kinds of folk stories from elves, from trolls, from monsters, from ghosts, and all kinds of stories that people used to believe in the old days here. And the stories are crazy. Maybe you want to ask me about and tell some stories? I'm not sure. if I want to do that, but, you know, they are quite crazy.

Well, let's talk a little bit about Iceland because one of the reasons that I love traveling here so much is that it's so different than the United States. You know, people here, it seems like some people still do believe in elves and trolls and ghosts and all of these types of things. Why do you think that is? Why is it a part of the culture?

For many reasons because we have Only few hours light in the wintertime, only 4 hours. And we used to tell stories and we can see elves and trolls in any corner on any hills. But even if you don't believe in elves in Iceland, you will never put your tent on someplace that people say elves live there and they will be angry. You will never take the chance, even if you don't believe in them. You know, your car will maybe explode, you know. So you don't take that chance.

Yeah, there was an example in your first book about the house that you grew up on, on Elf Hill Road.

Yeah.

And the construction equipment. Can you tell that story?

Yes, actually, they were planning to have the road Álfarsvegur, that means Elf Hill Road, the street I live. And there was always so many problems going on when they was trying to build this road. So it ended up that they made the house How do you say it?

A detour.

Yeah, detour, yeah. Around the hill, and I named the street Elf Hill Road because people believed that elves lived there. And actually, in my new book, this Elf Hill is part of the story also.

Makes an appearance.

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. So what other types of— what do you call them? Folklore, mystical beings? What other types of characters do you have? Humans, but you have elves. What else?

All kinds of monsters.

All kinds of monsters.

I have monsters also in the book, and ghosts, and trolls, and all kinds of mystical species, you know, that lives in the Heiden world.

Yeah, what I love about— I mean, we will keep talking about this because I think it's so cool. What I love about Iceland is that there's a big culture around reading. I think Iceland Your country is the most literate country on the planet, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So reads the most books per capita.

Yeah, per capita. Yeah, that's actually crazy. Yeah, we read a lot. And I've heard that 1 of every 10 Icelanders have published some book or something.

Oh, really?

Yeah, it's something crazy number like that.

Yeah. But how many have published 2 books? Not that many.

Not that many. But some people have published 10, 15, even 30, 40.

But when you are growing up and you live outside of the city and there is not a lot of daylight, right, you grow up reading books and telling stories. Is that kind of what it was like for you?

Yes, and also in the Christmas time, we call it Jólabókarflóð. We have a special name for it that means book avalanche.

Book avalanche.

Book avalanche in the Christmas time because we give so many books for Christmas gift. And we read still a lot, but not the same as much as we used to. But we are big readers. And I think my books are structured in the storytelling because of, you know, maybe it's in my genes, I don't know. But we are so used to, you know, read stories and tell stories. That's just part of our nation, our culture.

Read stories, tell stories. Yeah, I really like that. Going all the way back to the earlier days of Icelandic history, I know that back in the 9th century, there were some monks that lived on the island.

Yeah, you have heard about that?

I have heard about that. So does that play a role in your story? You know, did these types of people encounter the elves and the trolls and stuff like that in Icelandic folklore?

Yes, most people, many people know that Iceland was settled by Vikings in around 870. But what many people don't know is That was probably monks living here in Iceland before that. And there's a lot of things that back this up, this story. For example, there's an island in east part of Iceland, it's called Papey. At this island, there's 2 hills. One is Church of Elf, and one is the castle, is the House of Elves. And the story says that Back 1,000 years ago or so, there was a secret script there hiding in this castle, the Elf Church. Probably just the rumor that these monks was the first people to know about it because they was a little bit spiritual and they had the grab of this secret message, yes. from the elf. And nobody had found this. In 1978, there was a young guy that wanted to try to find this secret manuscript to be better in life and business and all kinds of things. And he went on a trip to try to find it with his grandfather and grandmother. And that's the story.

That's the story of this next book?

Yeah, I made this all up. But not the hill. The Kastalli, it means the castle, and the Embui is the name of the church. I think it was like that, yes.

Uh-huh.

So I can promise you one thing. When you read the book, you will ask yourself, is this really a true story or not? Or did this really happen or not? Is he making it up, or is it really some old Icelandic stories because they are so crazy?

Yeah, no, I love that about all of these stories in Icelandic folklore. It sounds like a lot of them are very hard to believe, but it also feels like, in a way, they're all true as well.

Yeah. It's hard to pick one story from another to tell about, but I think it's the best way to just say that, you know, the stories are so crazy. It's like sometimes in real life, you know, like when you're watching movies that are based on true stories, that you think, can this really be? Was it like that? And this is a true story? No, they are making it up. And same goes like you will read the book, Message from the Hidden People, that is this true or not? So it's, yeah, if you understand.

It happened to us the other night.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, when we went to dinner.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, you should tell that story to everybody.

Yeah, life can be strange and many people will maybe think that this is not true, but you witness this. So, yeah, we went to this restaurant and I have already booked the table and it was quite crowded in there and I have never been to this restaurant. And I said, and I have never said before, I said, yes, I want to have the president table. And the guy look at me, what?

What?

What do you mean? Yeah, like the president table, you know, probably it's in the corner. I had no clue. I had never been there. I always have that table. And this was my first time at the restaurant. And he said, and looked at me, excuse me, you cannot have this table because the president is sitting on it. And it was true. The president, Vigdis Finnbogdottir, the first female president in the world, was sitting at the table. So, This just happened.

Yeah, and what was even stranger about that story is that we had different plans.

Yeah.

But unfortunately, we had to reroute them. We had to delay them.

Yeah.

Because of some work stuff, and so you chose this new restaurant.

Yeah.

And the reservation was moved.

Yeah.

And then the president was just sitting at the table. And so, yeah, she was the president from 1980 until 1996, right? The first female president.

Yes. That's true.

In a democratic country?

Yes.

Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

Yeah. And my book, Message from the Hidden People, is also— there's a lot of strange stories similar to this also. And this new book have a lot of things to do also with luck. You will question it when you read the book. Is luck something that I can create by myself? Or what is luck? You know, I go also into that.

Yeah, well, luck has been a subject of conversation over the last couple of days while we've been hanging out as well. When did you become interested in the subject of luck?

I don't know, many years ago, because so many people, they have been telling me that you are so lucky, you have good karma or something. I don't know what it is, but I believe that you can help with the luck. You can create even the luck. Depends on, you know, if you're open-minded, you're willing to try out something new, you know. It's not just luck that we are sitting here together, you know. Nick, you were the first contact on Instagram about the book. So, was that luck? I don't know. Lottery is maybe luck, but, you know, you can create your luck if you do certain things in a certain way, I think.

Yeah, no, I think so too. And even with the lottery, which is totally random, if I buy 2 tickets instead of 1, I'm doubling my luck, right?

Yeah. But—

You still won't win. Yeah.

I'm not a big believer that— I have not this lucky mentality. I don't have that. But still, you can create your own luck.

Yeah. So tell me about the process of writing this book. I mean, you go from nonfiction about your own life to creating a novel? Was that a scary process?

Nick, this is a fantastic question. First, when I wanted to write a book, it never came up to my mind to write a novel because I was not ready for it. And I wanted to bring message from Iceland. And, you know, the only way I thought it was possible when I wrote Message from the Middle of Nowhere was to use my own life to do it. But after I finished this book, and I start thinking, I want to do similar book, but in a really different way. It sounds a little bit like yin and yang, but then I just start to think about it. And I was always thinking about how can I do it? And how can I mix again all kinds of Icelandic with some message? So the only way now was to write a novel. So, In the COVID I took a special tour around Iceland with a van, a motorhome. And in this trip, I had all kinds of strange things. The weather was sometimes really bad. There's a lot of things that happened in this trip because it was so windy. I had to sleep in the car in the middle of nowhere near to Vatnajökull, the glacier. And I used this trip to build up the story. So, yeah, so it was a lot of, how do you say, preparing myself for the stories. It just did not happen over the night. But when I have structured the main story because of this trip, and when I start writing the book, it took not so long time. I was overflowed. It was crazy. And I really was thinking many times, who is writing this book? Because I was looking at the my computer. And I was so surprised. Where did this come from? And always the story went to, you know, from this— you know, I was starting here, and I had no clue where I was going. I had only, you know, next stop, next visit will be some elves in this part of Iceland. And in this part of Iceland, we'll even talk about some old Vikings. So, I will talk about the monster here in east part of Iceland, this crazy story, but it was like someone else was writing the book. That was really strange.

Yeah, you know, that's interesting. We were talking a little bit about the author Steven Pressfield, who I was with last week in Malibu, and he believes in something called the muse. So in the beginning of the book The Odyssey, there's this— it's called the Invocation of the Muse, and it's basically this affirmation to the world, to the gods, to say, hey, use me as a vessel to create something great.

Yeah, I felt that way. It was crazy. I was so surprised, and I was thinking, how could I do that? How did I come with this idea? Where did it come from? So it was never writing blocks, it was writing overflow. And that's why I have started The sequel of this book, Message from the Hidden People. And the work title is The Secrets from the Hidden People, the next one.

How many different characters did you develop for this next book?

I've not counted them. At least, I'm not sure, maybe around 20, 20 characters. And all the characters, I can build a book around them. Because I went so deep into building the characters. You know, his name is Møkkur. It does not mean only Møkkur. He is named Møkkur Kløkka. That means Møkkur the Clock. One elf. So, to give you a little bit sneak peek into the next story, next book after this book is— maybe he will talk about time management. I'm not promising that, but to give you a little bit clue.

Yeah. So there's like a little bit of a— there's still a personal development aspect to the novels that you're writing.

Absolutely. Totally. I use these elves and trolls and monsters to tell the stories, to bring the message. And so this is a 100% personal development book, for sure. But I've never heard about personal development book like this that talk in every chapter about something really mystical, really secrets, rumors, folk stories, nothing like that.

Yeah, and I remember in your first book you talk about— when did you start reading personal development? You were like 14 years old or something?

11 years old.

11 years old.

Wow. After my mother died, I started. My first book was— I think I told you that in the last podcast— it was The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale. That was the first personal book I was reading. And since then, now for more than 40 years, I have been reading personal development books and also a lot of folk stories. That was my favorite when I was a child. And that helps me also a lot now when I'm writing this book that I have been reading all the old folk stories Iceland have, I think, most of them. So I knew the story because I had been reading them and also because I had grown up with my grandmother and grandfather and they were always telling me stories. So I was just also raised by that. So that makes a big part of this book. I mean, it did not take me so long time to write it, but it took my whole life to prepare me for this book. I can say that.

Yeah, so you are uniquely qualified to write it because There are not so many other people who are as versed in personal development, but also Icelandic folklore.

Yeah, yeah. So this is actually— I'm using that. It's really funny part when you say it, and it's so true because I was reading personal development book very young, not because of good reason, because my mother died. I was building myself up, and I was also reading a folk story. I have not been reading so much of crime stories or that kind of story, Novels like that, but I have been reading a lot of adventure stories that happens here, especially in Iceland.

Yeah, I got to take a nice look at your bookshelves last night.

Yeah.

You like to read and underline and highlight and go through books multiple times.

Multiple times, yeah.

Yeah. Where did you learn that?

I have no clue. I have done this for many, many, many years, and I have no clue where I learned it. That's so long time since I started. And also I did in Notio, many times in the back end of the book, I write when I started and when I finished it. So I can take a lot of books and find, ah, I was last time reading this in 2012.

Yeah, I actually do that same thing.

Okay.

Yeah, so sometimes I'll— I do it on the front cover. Sometimes I'll open up the book and I'll see, okay, I read it in February of 2017. I read it in March of You know, 2019, and I can see each time.

Yeah, it's fantastic. And the reason it's so good to underline, then, you know, for example, if you need the motivation, you need to pump up your energy or something, you just go take 5, 6 great books, you just open up and you read only what you have underlined, and it's like you have, how do you say, vitamin—

An IV.

Yeah.

Yeah, just inject it right into your bloodstream.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was trying to say that. Thank you.

Well, speaking of language, English is not your first language, but you're very good with English.

Thank you very much. I used to be terrible, but it's really strange. It's really easy for me to read in English, but I'm not used to speak English. So it's a good—

It's good practice.

Good practice for me, I think.

So you, I think you actually write your books in Icelandic, right? And then they get translated?

Yeah, I write it in Icelandic and then it's editing and translate it. And actually I have dyslexia, you know, so—

Dyslexia.

Dyslexia, yeah. So the text can be a little bit, you know, I have to go over and over and over again, you know.

Well, that's— it's amazing that you've read so many books and you've now written multiple books with dyslexia.

Yeah, yeah. That's why it's really important for me to read every day. I feel it if I don't read it for even a week, my reading speed goes down. So I have to read every day.

How much time do you spend reading every day?

Usually 1 hour.

1 hour a day?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, I know one thing with you is if you're going to do something, you're going to do it the right way. You're going to go all in.

Yeah, I only know that.

Yeah.

That's how I— work best. You are pregnant or not. You are not almost pregnant. You have to go all in.

I love it. All right, we'll take a quick break.

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So Gunnar, you told me that the book happens in 1978. Why is that?

There's many reasons for it. For example, in 1978, there was no mobile phone at that time. And also, the roads in Iceland was not as good as they are today. So many things will happen in this adventure trip that they are trying to find these secrets, the script from the hidden people. So that was also really good. And also, you know, I write the book, when you read it, you will see it also as a picture, like on a big screen. So, people have been asking me many times, could this be actually a movie or, you know, some TV series? And absolutely. And I write it in many ways also because of that from the beginning. And the road was not the same. There was a lot of all kinds of danger. For example, in the nature here in Iceland. Now we have done some things to be more safe, for example. So, I could not say and tell the story in the same way and make the story as much exciting for the reader if it happened today. So, that is one of the reasons, yeah. And also, I wanted to make up this atmosphere, you know, what he was listening when he was driving, what kind of music was going on, you know. You know, the whole picture. Yeah. So, that gave me a lot of things that I was able to do by storytelling because no phones, bad roads, and something like that. If that explains a little bit about it.

Yeah, it does. Iceland, we talked about all of the elves and trolls and monsters and things like that, but it also has crazy weather and a crazy landscape. You know, this is a— country that I like to visit because you see crazy waterfalls and geysers and volcanoes.

Yeah.

You know, the other day I was at a lagoon in the hot water, so I was in a hot spring, but it was snowing on my face.

Yeah.

And where else in the world can that kind of stuff happen? So it's just a magical place, and it makes sense that you're able to come up with this story.

Yeah, it's really magic. Yeah, absolutely. I'm really excited, Nick, about this.

Yeah. No, me too. Me too. So, in the writing process, it sounds like you have a lot of detail, like what music was on the radio and things like that. I mean, I don't know if a lot of authors go into that level of detail. So why'd you choose to do that?

For example, I chose even the song was playing on the radio. I just named maybe The song and nothing more. If you know the song, maybe, and many of them, of course, are from 1975, '76, '77, and '78. And if you know this song, even if you're much younger, you will make some pictures in your mind. So this book is really much about you using your imagination when you're reading it. And I put a lot of trust in the readers to see the total picture. So, that's one of the parts of— to make the picture sharper, to make the atmosphere, you know. And just, I took a lot of hours just to find maybe one song that has to be at this moment, you know. I spent a lot of time in research, really much. It's much more time in research than in writing.

Yeah. So more research than your first book?

Yeah, because that was based on my life story. So that's, you know, I just have to, you know, think about how was it, my life story. And it was totally different when I was writing A Message from the Middle of Nowhere. I have to think about my life, and sometimes it was not so much pleasurable because And it's wound up, if I can say so, a lot of things, and it was not always joy. But to make the story better, I have to be honest. But when I have a novel, I have to go really much into research.

Yeah, you told me the other day that you've been doing sales training for 25-plus years.

Yes.

And you've only been writing for a couple of years, but if you had to give one up, you'd give up the sales training and you would stick with the writing.

Yeah, true, because I love it. I love it. And my dream was if I can write a lot of books that can help people, both give them education and entertainment, maybe even in the same time. Because if you get entertainment and you learn in the same time, Best of both. If I could do that and nobody knows my name, nobody knows who I am, I'm really fine by that.

Yeah.

I really love writing. Even if I still love holding a seminar here in Iceland, and it's never happened, not once for 26 years, not once that I thought, oh, I'm thinking about quitting this, or do something else, and I don't like it. No, it's never happened. I always love it.

So, even though this is a novel, your goal is to teach people and entertain people at the same time.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, blow up your mind. That's my goal with the book, that you will be, you know, this mind-blowing, you know, what is this? Is this true? Is it not true? At the same time, you get some message from all kinds of creatures, the elf, and maybe the main person in the book will find this secret, hidden script. But we will find out.

Yeah, what is the secret?

Yeah, that's the secret. That's the secret. What is the secret? I will not tell you that here. But, you know, maybe there are many. I'm not going to spoil it.

For everybody listening today, when is this book going to come out?

This year, 2023. I have finished it, you know, but still I'm taking a little bit closer look into it. I'm making a little bit sharper there some characters. For me, it doesn't matter if it comes out after 3 months, 6 months, even 9 months. It will not be published until I'm 100% satisfied, and it's really hard to satisfy me about when I'm writing and doing my stuff. So, if people are curious, I encourage you to— all people to go to my website, GunnarAndri.com, and put your name on the email list. And if you want to know about when it's published, You will get email for sure, or follow me on Instagram. You will know it before everybody else.

I know that your target reader for the first book was maybe a young professional who was also curious in Iceland. Is it the same target reader for this next book?

I was really specific in the message from Middle of Nowhere. You're right, Nick. I was thinking about young entrepreneur curious about Iceland. And from maybe 23 to 35, something around that. What surprised me, like I've told you before, that so many other people older are reading the book and loving the book, but now it's much wider. I think people even that don't read personal development book will love it and gain— I will sneak to them also can create good message because they like to read maybe adventure books, something crazy. My goal is that when you finish the chapter, you have to start reading the next chapter. It's like you finish watching some movie and the movie ends, the episode ends, and you have to watch the next one. Because I built the book in a similar way, I believe. I'm not going to say that the book is for everyone, but, you know, it's for a much bigger audience, really much, much, much bigger.

Yeah, I like that. There's a saying that I'm familiar with, which is sell them what they want to be sold, but give them what they really need.

Yeah, right.

So you're selling them an adventure book, but you're really giving them personal development information.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, true.

Are there, are there any books that you've read before that gave you an outline for this one that gave you an idea? Like, do you read any adventure books that have personal development lessons?

No, not one. I have— nobody have pointed out that, yeah, this book is similar. Here is some trolls and elves and monsters and, you know, and here is the bringing of the message and avalanches and eruptions going on and ghosts and monks. I've never found any book just even close to be a little bit similar.

Yeah, it's funny. People probably think of Iceland and they go, yeah, okay, eruptions. But last time I was here, we flew over a semi-active volcano that erupted again. And then even while I was here during this trip, there's an eruption warning near the airport. So imagine if that Imagine if a volcano starts spewing lava near the airport. I'd have to stay in Iceland.

That can happen. And actually now there's a lot of earthquakes going on. When we are talking right now, there's a lot of earthquakes going on. So it's highly likely that there's going to be eruption soon. It's not the question if it's going to be eruption, it's just when. So we always live with this threat, and we have really many active volcanoes. And they also, volcanoes, make some part in the story, message from the hidden people, yes.

Okay, nice. How long does the story take to unfold? I mean, does it all happen in 1978 in the course of a week?

This is actually a good question. It happens about— we can say this is actually a trip around Iceland. So if you're curious about Iceland, and if you read the book, If you have planned to go around Iceland, that will be really good fun for you. So, the book happens— the main story is in about 10 days or so, 10, 12. So, if you take the whole spectrum, it's maybe 1 year or so, the total. But the main story is 10 days, this trip that they try to find this secret script.

Is the main character based on you?

No.

No?

Maybe.

Maybe.

Maybe. No, no, I use my friends. I use people where I can see on a coffee house, everywhere. And I put it in the character of the elves and the trolls. And of course, maybe something from me, maybe— because I'm writing it, it must come something from me. But, you know, but I don't build the character of myself as the character of the person. But, you know, but I use actually the location where I used to live on Alfhild. The character is actually living there also in the book. Yeah, so I use a lot of things from my life, but, you know, I change everything.

Yeah. Well, I think everybody's got a good understanding of what this next book can be like, and they can go to your website if they want to learn a little bit more.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, or your Instagram. Good. So we'll have all of that in the show notes. Maybe we could talk a little bit more about Iceland and why I like traveling here, just so that some people in the audience can get a good understanding of why they should visit.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's only about a 4-hour flight from Boston, which that surprises a lot of people. It's not very far away. Yeah, Iceland is— it actually sits on 2 tectonic plates.

Yes.

Right? So part of it is the North American plate, like where the United States is, but part of it is the Eurasia plate.

Yeah.

So Iceland belongs to Europe, right?

Yes. Actually, that is also one of the reasons the title of message from the middle of nowhere, because we are actually in the middle of nowhere in Iceland.

Yeah.

The other day with Rachel, I did a snorkeling excursion where you actually swim In freezing water, yeah, and it's it's actually glacier water, so it's crystal clear. It's been filtered through the earth, and it was a beautiful experience. But that's what they told us: is they said you are you're between two tectonic plates. Yes, there's about six kilometers of space here, and so it's it's Iceland, but it's technically not anything because it's uncharted territory. Yeah, it's the middle of nowhere.

It's middle of nowhere. You're so right.

And that's what's so cool about Iceland is there's just so many strange things about it. You know, like you could be between tectonic plates that are separating and you can go swimming.

Yeah.

You know, where else in the world can that happen?

And also it's really well known here in Iceland, and you have experienced, you can having sun, after 5 minutes you have rain, after 5 minutes you have snowing.

Yes.

Yeah. And then suddenly, big wind.

Yeah, we've been lucky though. We've had really nice weather so far.

Yeah. So we are so used to this in Iceland, and that's why we have to, you know, think, yeah, we are going to do it. We are going to north part of Iceland if the weather allows us to do it. So we always have to think about that, you know, that's part of our life.

Last time I was here, I took a couple of road trips. I didn't do all the way around Iceland, maybe after reading Your book, I will.

I think you will really want to do it.

Yeah.

I'm sure about it, even.

They call it the Ring Road, right?

Ring Road, yeah, so the whole story is also the Ring Road.

Yeah, and there's obviously, we've mentioned some waterfalls and volcanoes, but last time I also went to the black sand beach.

Yeah, there's a lot of things that happen in Message from the Hidden People at that place.

Yeah.

He found some lucky stones there.

Yeah, and I remember you told me that, and Rachel said that last time she was here, she took a little lucky stone.

Yeah, so I already have, you know, when he was here last time, that was, you know, part of the story, yeah.

Yeah, so I think maybe over the next couple of days or maybe next time I visit, I will have to go back to the black sand beach and take a lucky stone.

Take 2. Take 2. Take at least one lucky stone and one stone that you will be really happy that you took and also really disappointed.

Okay. What does that mean?

You have to read the book to find out. I'm not going to spoil it by why, because now you're curious. And that's one of the things I do in the book. I make you real curious. So you want to know more. You want to read more. You want to go to the next chapter. I will not tell you. Everything's, you know... So, you have to figure it out. You have to find it out. Why is he going to be really disappointed and glad at the same time? Do you know? Is it something that comes to your mind, Nick, when I say that? You will be really happy about you took the stone and also really disappointed?

I don't know. I remember we've talked about this before, and maybe I had an idea or two, but I... You know, I don't know.

No, that's—

It reminds me of, uh, the story in the Bible of, of Adam and Eve with, uh, the snake and the, you know, the apple. And, uh, it's like sometimes the more you know, the less you know. You know, it's like it's a good thing to know everything about the world, but that means there's positive and there's negative, right? Like there's, there's the positive things in life, but there's also the pain and the sorrow. And so You know, you get exposed to both of them. You'll be happy about it and you'll be sad about it.

Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about here in this case, but good try.

Yeah. No, I'm excited to learn a little bit more about it. All right, cool. Anything else that you want to share with the listeners today?

No, I think we are fine. I'm just really happy to have you here in Iceland once again, and I probably will come very soon. It seems like you like Iceland and Rachel, she likes Iceland, so I am really happy to have you here.

Yeah, really good food, really great people, really fun sights to see. I hope that more members of the BookThinkers family visit Iceland and share their photos with both of us on Instagram and pick up a copy of your first book and then your second book when it comes out as well.

Maybe I will publish them both together. I don't know.

Ah, interesting.

Yeah, we will see. It's going really well writing the sequel, do I say sequel?

The third book?

Third book, yeah.

And do you have a title for that one?

Secret from the Hidden People is the working title.

Okay, nice.

Maybe that's the script. Maybe not. Maybe—

We'll see.

Yeah, we will see.

All right, cheers. Great conversation, Gunnar. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.

That is a wrap.

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