126. Laurie Barkman | Author of The Business Transition Handbook

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to our personal development podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, we interview one of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and live better. In today's episode, we have the pleasure to interview interview Lori Barkman, author of The Business Transition Handbook. Lori, aka the Business Transition Sherpa, is a former CEO of a company that did $100 million in yearly revenue that was sold to a Fortune 50 company. She now provides strategic business transition planning with her firm Small.Big. Lori is a wife, mother, and adjunct professor of entrepreneurship at Carnegie Mellon University. She also hosts the award-winning podcast Succession Stories. In this episode, you'll learn all about Lori's book, hear some interesting succession stories, why it's important to build a company worth buying, and what you can do to set yourself up for a successful exit. Don't be like the majority who run out of time and options. Step ahead of the rest and get ready to learn and enjoy this incredible conversation with Lori Barkman. Lori Barkman, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy to have you today. How are you doing? How are you feeling?

Hey, Luke.

Hey, Nick.

I'm feeling great. Thank you so much for having me on Book Thinkers. You guys do such a great job of highlighting not only the books, but the author behind them, and I really appreciate that.

Yeah. Well, we are super excited to get into your book. We had the pleasure to spend a day with you filming some content with your book. So, We know it up and down, backwards and forwards. And I think this is gonna be a great interview. So kicking off, tell the audience a little bit about who you are and what you do.

I'm Lori Barkman. I'm the Business Transition Sherpa, and I work with business owners from transition to transaction, from creating value to letting go. There's a lot of work in between those words, but that's the process, that's the journey. And that's why I call myself a Sherpa, because this isn't a moment in time. This is, This is a movement of time and it's hard to do by yourself. You didn't build your business by yourself. You're not going to exit it by yourself or transition by yourself. You need to support it with people around you. And so that's who I am and what I do.

Is it true that 80% of business owners would like to stop working in their business? Is that a common statistic? Do people know that? I mean, it's kind of shocking to me.

It is a big number. You know, it's kind of shocking. You would think about that and it's a range of time. And it's, it's age and it's life stage. It's both things. And I think the pandemic accelerated it a bit. Let's face it, 100% of business owners are going to leave their company one day. Let's let that sink in. But it's true. You're either going to leave your company horizontally or vertically, but it's going to happen. The statistic that you just cited is from a couple of different surveys, and it used to be 7 to 10 years. And then, and then during the pandemic, we did a survey. The Value Builder System did a survey. of business owners and found that that number shifted in, that the timeframe shifted inward. And probably because many business owners have been through a number of crises, economic crises, and then there was the pandemic and they're tired. Baby boomers are in their 60s, 70s. Some people are in their 80s and we can chuckle and say, yeah, the folks in their 80s are probably gonna leave horizontally because they're just not gonna leave, right? The people who are thinking about a transition, so many of them say, yeah, I recognize that's important, yet they don't do anything about it. Less than 20% of business owners have a written transition plan. I'm a big advocate, and this is the big point in the book is, look, this is going to happen. Why not work on it? It's going to make your business a better business in the meantime. Doesn't mean you're selling tomorrow, but all the good work you're gonna do to make it attractive, transferable, and ready to sell is going to make you run a happier business, right? You're gonna be a happier business owner and create more value. So that's the premise. And if we write our goals down, there's been studies on this, we're more than 40% more likely to achieve those goals. But again, let's go back to the issue, which is most business owners, probably 9 out of 10, do not have a plan. If it's just in your head, is it really a plan? You can't share it, can't talk about it. You think about it, it weighs on you. And that's really the biggest issue is just, I don't know what I'm going to do with my business. I don't know who I'm gonna sell it to. I don't know if my kids wanna have it. Now, I don't know if anyone's gonna want it, whatever it is they're swirling in their head on it.

What I found so fascinating about your book, you know, we're a young company. Nick and I are both pretty young. And I was like, when I first read this, I was like, oh, business transition. I'm like, we're just getting started. But what was so fascinating to me is as I read through it, I realized, I was like, well, there's a lot of things that we're just not doing correctly, that we're not doing right, that we're not even thinking about yet. And it would do us a lot of good to just begin thinking about the exit, thinking about the transition. Because it can add a lot of value just to your bottom line. And I was so impressed with every chapter I read through as I built through the book. I was like, okay, we can do this, we could do this. I was pulling tons of stuff out. I have a whole notepad full of things that Nick and I are gonna work on implementing in our company now. So I think that a lot of our listeners, we have listeners from 18 to 35 that may be like, ah, you know, I'm not really there yet. This book is so valuable. for you because it's not just, oh, 60 years old and then start thinking about it. If you start thinking about it now, your business is going to be a lot more valuable. And I think that that was the big thing that this book opened my eyes to. So what was the process like? How did you get to writing about this topic? Like, why were you attracted to this over something else?

My background is that I was a CEO. I was an outside hire for a privately held company. It was a third-generation business. about a 125-year-old business. And the 3rd generation was the chair of the company and he was my boss. And this was a company that I thought I was gonna work at for, you know, another 20 years. I was super excited about that prospect. It was a very sizable company. It's about $1 billion. And so this is no small company and I was running one of the divisions of it. And lo and behold, our business went through a mergers and acquisitions process and we were acquired by a very large Global shipping company. And it was an exciting time to go through something like that. It was a difficult time because we couldn't take our foot off the gas. We had to all continue to run our business. And then, by the way, we're also gonna, you know, work on the due diligence requests that kept coming in and management meetings and all of these things. And I remember the day that the deal closed and our owner literally was leaving the building. Literally leaving. Like, the day it closed, the family was completely out, and he didn't want any fuss. He just wanted to leave. But we couldn't let that happen, you know. So we had everybody in the lobby and stair— the stairwell and in the lobby, and his wife was there, and we had a cake, and we were just— we were all clapping. It was very emotional. You know, he's a kind of a non-emotional guy, but he got a little emotional too. And literally it was Elvis is leaving the building, you know, it was kind of like that. And it was a really big moment. And then beyond that, how their family set themselves up for success afterwards with a family office and an investment in causes they care about, you know, so they set up 2 separate entities. And that just was so interesting to me. And this idea about succession, and then the show Succession came out. And that's for me, I started to stitch it all together. I started to learn more about exit planning. I started to learn more about business owners and the challenges they face. I've worked in startups and really big companies in my career. And it just became so interesting to me to think about what are these stories? What are the stories behind these companies that go through succession? I saw one of them up close, right? But there's so many more out there and so many in the public eye more recently, right? We can all think about Jeff Bezos and his transition and this concept of when you hand over the baton, what does the next generation do with it? Do they drop it? They throw it up in the air and catch it and like, woo, look what I did. Aren't I amazing? Or they just, they get it and they're like, oh shit, I don't know what to do with this. And I think there's answers all out there, right? So I launched a podcast right at the start of COVID Who knew, right? But it was an amazing time to start a show because I wanted to have conversations with people. And how do we have conversations during COVID Everybody was using video and audio as a mechanism to connect. And it ended up, the timing just ended up being really interesting from that perspective. So I launched the show 3 years ago, gathered up, at the time I wrote the book, I guess I had probably 120 interviews. And my initial idea was to share excerpts from the interviews and organize it and have it be an interesting read, kind of like Howard Stern's latest book. I read it. I thought it was really cool how he did these excerpts. And I thought, all right, that'll be, you know, and then I started working on it and I hated it. So halfway through, I did a bit of a pivot. And I was thinking of putting myself and eating my own dog food here, putting myself in the shoes of the reader. Begin with the end in mind. I advocate for that Stephen Covey quote a lot. And if I'm the reader and I'm reading this book, what am I gonna get out of it? So I decided that the positioning of the book, The Business Transition Handbook, is all about avoiding succession pitfalls. I don't want you to drop the baton. I don't want you to, you know, I don't want you to have the issues. Let's help you avoid all the challenges that I've heard about on the show. So how do we avoid succession pitfalls and create valuable exit options? So we're gonna build value. So how do we do that? So I like your point, Luke, that It could really be for anyone reading, you know, how to build a successful business one day that someone else might want to own. I appreciate that comment because you're right. That's a lot of feedback that I've gotten that this book isn't necessarily written for startups. It's not written for solopreneurs. It's written for, let's say, well-established companies. And doesn't matter what age you are as an owner, but it's intended for companies that are probably still growing, but having that mindset that one day there's gonna be a transitional shift. So no matter where you are with your business, I think you will learn something. I have a girlfriend who's in consulting and with a large consulting firm, and she read it and she said, I, you know, she's my good friend and, and she read it because she's my friend. But as she was going through it, she's taking notes and she's, she, she just loved it. She's like, oh my gosh, I can apply this even to my job, you know, in consulting because I understand the partners better. I understand better about what they're trying to do with the practice. So I think there's something for everyone in this book.

All right, I have a couple of quick fun questions. Number one, who is your favorite character in the HBO show Succession?

I think Roman is fantastic. His one-liners, his snarky attitude, his bravado that's really masking a deep insecurities. He's just this package of complication, and I think he's hilarious.

Yeah, I do too. I, I'm a Kendall Roy fan. I, I don't know, I kind of like the black sheep of the family type attitude that he played for a couple of seasons. And what an amazing show. What did you think of the very last episode?

I thought they did a fantastic job wrapping it all up. It didn't leave us hanging like Sopranos did. It buttoned it up nicely so that we know how it's gonna end, how the characters will move on.

Yeah. What an amazing show. And it kind of gives everybody something to think about if they haven't been through an acquisition and they don't really know what we're talking about. They can think a little bit about that show because everyone's seen it. I wanted to give some background context here too. So prior to BookThinkers, I was at a transportation management software company, and I was at that company through 2 acquisitions. The first acquisition was an M&A firm, sort of like a buy-and-hold firm out of Montreal, Canada, and I got to spend quite a bit of time in their offices. I was actually recruited to join the M&A team. I didn't go because I'd have to move to Canada, but it was a fast-paced environment. It was exciting. The idea of helping business owners transition out of their business once they're burnt out or once they set their eyes on a different And so, that world is big and it's powerful and it's exciting. And you're right, it's very messy for people who don't plan upfront, which was the case of the business that went through the transition that I was a part of. And so, I love this idea, like you said, of Stephen Covey, just beginning with the end in mind. So, what percentage of business owners, I guess you could look at somebody like me, who has no clue what they would want to do in the future? What percentage of business owners are like me? They're just kind of growing a business. They enjoy it. They're present with it, but they sort of shy away when you ask them, hey, what's the plan?

Like, it's a very high percentage. Yeah, most, most business owners do not build their company to sell. There are wonderful stories and examples of entrepreneurs that do build to sell and, and using the inspiration from John Worreloh's book for that reference. There are many people like yourself who say, you know, I'm just gonna get this started. We're gonna see where it goes. And then eventually they start to think, well, what could I do with it? So it's an interesting idea behind building a company that one day you could sell it to X or Y. It's more common, I think, Nick, in venture capital. That is way more common. So if I slice your question to call it Main Street companies or You know, and I say Main Street, that can be a couple of meanings. One is dollar sign, how big it is in revenue. It's usually under a million would be a Main Street business, but also the type of business. If you create a restaurant concept or a really cool barbershop concept, unless you franchise it, the growth probably isn't there and it maybe is more of a lifestyle business. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It just is what it is versus creating your business like it's an asset. and managing that asset to just like you would manage it as part of your portfolio. Are we diversified enough? Eventually the answer is gonna be no. When you first start, it's not a big percent of your total net worth, but over time it will be. So a lot of people who are funded by venture capitalists are thinking about the exit when they do the pitch deck to the investors. So it's a very interesting idea behind a privately held company not backed by outside investors thinking about an exit early on. It's way more common in education availability too, like in MBA schools when we're learning it from entrepreneurship classes. We're taught in those MBA schools about the exit. But on the everyday entrepreneur, I would say it's not that common because, and you could say, why is that? I mean, it's a good follow-up, Nick. Thanks for the question. No, I mean, there's a lot of reasons.

You're welcome.

No, there's a lot of reasons why you wouldn't, right? We're busy. It's hard to build a business and to think about the exit on top of that is difficult. But also we don't know what type of legacy we're building. Are we building this for our family? And we have intentions around that. And so then it's like, it's hard to think about, well, why would I let that go? So some of it's emotional and some of it's just practical.

Yeah.

And then, I mean, I feel like a few years ago there was this narrative that, okay, you could build and sell a business and then sit on the beach and drink mimosas all day or whatever the case is and you'd be happy. And nowadays I feel like, especially with the internet and everything, it's easier to stay involved with a business and people have this fear of becoming bored or regretting a sale. And so I know that, sorry, Luke, I'm hogging multiple questions in a row, but I know you have 4 things that you measure on a scale of 1 to 100 to know if owners are ready to sell a business. So I'm sure there are going to be some people listening today that are like, hmm, you know, maybe it's a parent or maybe it's a friend or maybe it's themselves. Is that person ready to sell the business? Like, how is that measurable?

Yeah, there's some, there's a diagnostic tool that I have called the business, uh, excuse me, the personal readiness, um, score, the pre-score. And it's available on my website and people are welcome to take it. And when they take it, we talk about what you said. There are 4 different pillars and scores we get as the questions are aligned to each of these 4 pillars. But I would say one of the biggest ones is the future vision. I had a client that scored a 0 on that one dimension. I talk about this in the book and it wasn't his real name. I think I gave him the name Don. And John scored a 0 on that dimension and was sort of upset by that. And I can understand why, because what it meant was the questions that he had answered, he just didn't have answers for them. He didn't know. And that's the whole point. Like, okay, well, that's all right. Let's work through this. Let's figure out what some of the, what some of the things are that are pulling you forward. So let's talk about that concept for a second. Pulling you forward. What's something that could pull you forward? Feels positive, right? When you're sort of excited that there's something pulling you forward. Let's go back to the example I shared about my former chairman of the company that sold. They are our company, right? So they, he, the family created the family office and this 501 foundation that they're investing in charities they care about. and causes they care about. That's exciting. That was exciting to keep the family unit together in a new way and set that up. And that's just one example. But there's other things we can think about, what roles we might play after we leave our company, things we might do, whether it's working on our health, whether it is travel, whether it is being full-time grandparents. Some people say, I want to punch out of corporate. I don't want to do that. Others say, I'd love to serve on boards. Whatever it is for you is the point. But if you don't have a plan and there's nothing pulling you forward, you could launch another company. Um, what, what are, where are we? We're either in the middle, which is, which is the danger zone. We're gonna come back to that in a second. Or there's something pushing us out, the sense of pushed out. And a push out, these push factors would be conceptually more negative things. Because it could be health, a health crisis for you or family member, your partner in the business. It could be a business crisis like the pandemic caused for some people. It could be a literal disaster. The building burns down, you know, that type of thing. Death is usually the most common challenge. Someone dies and the business is— it goes into a bit of a crisis. So push factors, there are, there are many of them. And what the data shows from, from some of the work out there is that the more pull factors we have, the more intention we have, the more involved we're going to be in the process. It does have a positive impact on your valuation. The negative things can have a more negative impact on your valuation. The ones in the middle tend to have no impact, and that would be like retirement. I want to retire. Well, that's a neutral in this, in this survey. And the watch out, as I mentioned, of the middle is when we do coast along. We're complacent in our companies. We are not reinvesting. We're not hiring people. I have a client where that happened. He has very loyal employees, which is wonderful. However, The top people are all his age and he wants to retire. Well, guess what? So are they. And what happens to the transferability of that team? It was a real challenge. And that's, I think, a, it's not a, not a good example because it's a bad situation, but it's a good example to illustrate the watch out. You know, 10 years ago, he could have done something about that. He could have looked at the demographics and said, oh, you know what, I am gonna make an investment here. I have to think about this eventually. And he didn't.

How can a business owner that's listening to this today, how can they prepare for the possibility of the negative of those push factors affecting their eventual transition? How can they like just start to get prepared for that?

Well, one of the big things that business owners can do is think about contingency planning. It's very uncomfortable to think about your death, but it's something that we do need to work through. And it's included as part of what I talk about with my clients when we talk about strategic business transition planning. Contingency planning should be part of that. So not only the exit of an intentional sale to a third party or to family, but this contingency idea of what happens if. What happens if you're incapacitated? What happens if you die? What happens to the company? And then once you open your mind to that, there's a number of things that you can do to help protect the business. And that's a good thing to do.

Yeah, I mean, I think people don't like to think about those things. It's like, You know, a couple years ago I was writing a will for my children, you know, at 20, 27, 20, 26. I think it was 26 when I did that. Jeez, 26 years old. I was thinking about writing a will, and it's like I had my brother, he's like, why are you doing that? You're 26 years old. Well, I was like, but what if I go outside and get in an accident? What if I, what if something happens? Like, I, like, I don't, I don't want them to be unprotected. I don't want them to be unsafe. I want to make sure that they are taken care of. when my eventual death happens. And I think it's something so common that people just don't want to think about, and we barely want to think about in our own lives. So thinking about that with our business is just, it's like another level to that that is so important. I'll also add, no, no, no, it's fine. You can go on. I'll also add, read this book because it's a great start too.

Yeah. And, you know, your point about being 26 and gee, that seems young. But let's go back to why you did it. You have kids, your son. That's why you did it. You have a business, you have employees, you have other shareholders. That's why you do it. So not only should you have a will because it's the right thing to do for your family, but also consider the tailspin it could put a company in if you don't. And I have a couple of clients right now that do not, and I'm really working hard with them to try to get that next steps in place. Just to go back to my client story, Don, who I mentioned in the book, he did pass away during my time working with him. I don't remember if I put that detail in the book. I don't think I did.

No.

And it was really sad. He died suddenly. I don't know any details about it. All I know is I was on vacation, and a mutual friend reached out and said, did you hear? And I said, no, I didn't. I'm Wow, this is devastating. She said, his wife, you know, her, his spouse is going to reach out to you if that's okay. And I said, okay. So they had already had the memorial and everything. I, again, I was, I was in, I was in Europe, so I wouldn't have been able to attend anyway. But when I was going back through my notes, I realized that I could have given a eulogy based on what he told me. Like it was that important, his business and how it was important to him. And basically the spouse's question was, what does he want to do with it? Does he want his son to have it? Does he want to sell it? She didn't know what his intentions were. And so she inherited it and then she was like, what do I do with it?

And sounds like the plot of Succession a little bit.

A little bit. Yeah. But that happens so often and it can cause such problems. There was a, I think it was a law firm. Here locally. One partner died, his shares went to his spouse. She wanted to get bought out. They could not agree on the value. It was a nightmare. And then I'm in a relatively small golf community, if you can kind of catch my vibe on that. And it sent a rift through the social environment. You were either Team A or Team B. You know, again, it can cause not only in the family, but it can cause social issues and business issues if there's, you know, these types of challenges after someone passes away. And not to mention the mourning period, like we just want to mourn, you know, and now we've got to think about— there's an episode on my show, actually, we talk about this. Jennifer Marriott came on my show. She has been through 2, I'll call it turnarounds related to the owner's death. One was her family. It was her aunt who died. And it can put— it put the business in a tailspin. So she saw that up close and personal. And then because of her experience, she was hired in as a CEO of a company that also was— and she's— I have her story in my book, I think, where we do talk about this. And she was hired in at this other company, not family related, to help when that CEO died. And, you know, that's not an easy thing, but she, she helped prevent that second company from going into bankruptcy.

Yeah, I tell you what, that's why it's so important to have a plan because, man, you just, you never know. And like, you know, we were talking about a little bit, but like you said, death, death happens, tragedy happens, and it's better to have a, have a plan outlined than, than to not have anything at all. So I appreciate you getting us, getting the wheels turning and getting us thinking about, about these things even early on in and Book Thinkers and our businesses. It's a great thing. I'm curious, what is, let's like shift just a little bit over to maybe like making companies valuable. Like what's one or two things that a business owner can do to increase the value of their, or maybe it's more like increasing the attractiveness of their business if they want to eventually sell it.

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Well, first off, it depends on the kind of business and what, and what it is doing, what industry it's in. But first and foremost on the value drivers are the financials. That's usually the first thing. Is the business over $1 million, over $2 million, over $5 million, over $10 million? We see an inflection point at $10 million and above because a business of that size, a larger size, is, is assumed to be less dependent on its owner. So owner dependency, regardless of what size business you have, Is really important because a new owner wants to know that that business can thrive without you. It's so counterintuitive as an entrepreneur and founder. It's like, I am the secret sauce. Look at me. No, you're not the secret sauce. You can't make it about you. It has to be about the business itself. And that means it's either any combination of these things, people, processes, tools, systems, right? What, what can we do so that if you are on vacation, you know, sales doesn't take a downturn? So one of the big circles around this topic for owner dependencies on the sales side, if you, the owner, are kind of the chief cook and bottle washer, uh, in a manufacturing setting, you're the, you're the one that knows how to kick the machine and get it starting to work again. Or in a photography business, you are the main photographer, you know, take a hard look at that. In the days of a young company, it's tough because we are, we need revenues to drive our ability to hire more people. And how do we scale? Do we have processes that are teachable or are you the owners, the only one who can do it? This story is real. This is an engineering company and the owner had just gotten back from a Hawaiian island where Elon Musk had a rocket and he flew out to help fix and tinker on this rocket and nobody else in this company knew how to do that. Okay, that's super cool, right? You're Superman, you fly out there and fix a rocket, but that's not really teachable, scalable, repeatable, right? Highly valuable, but not teachable and repeatable. So that's the watch out for an owner is first and foremost on the financial side. How big can your company get? What are those things that are going to enable you to have a business that can thrive without you? And eventually, you know, documenting your processes, whether it's via video like Loom or other tools, VidGuide, or just pen and paper, just writing things down, Google Docs, whatever it is that whatever you do can be teachable to someone else. That's probably where I would point the needle first.

It's a timely topic for the team of book thinkers because just a little bit of background story for you and for everybody because I think people kind of find The background stuff looks interesting sometimes. A year ago, our team was probably a fourth of the size as it is today, and there was a lot less money to hire for delegation. And so yeah, there is that battle. I just went through it. How do you outsource? How do you delegate? How do you optimize? How do you systematize? How, you know, at what point when money is coming in should you dedicate it to those types of things and remove yourself like I was as a bottleneck? I was flying out and filming content with authors. I was selling the content. I was doing book reviews. I was booking people on podcasts. Like, it was craziness. And I was talking with Luke a lot about this over the last year. It's like every little thing that I can outsource or delegate or at least create a system for an SOP, I've been really attempting to do that and buy back my time and invest it in other areas of the business. And I just went on my honeymoon and I think we realized that I'm still a major bottleneck in the sales department, that is for sure. So it happens, you know, Book Thinkers is still a very small business, but what you're saying is so timely and the advice that you have in your book around the 3 categories couldn't be more useful for somebody like me. And I think there probably are a lot of small-time, you know, solo entrepreneurs or small business owners that are listening today and This is a section of the book that's gonna be very valuable for them.

Oh, that's, that's, that's nice to hear. I, I think there are pieces of this book that everybody can relate to if you own your own business for sure.

So shifting a little bit, I'm curious, uh, you mentioned a little bit of a difficult transition with, um, one of your clients. Uh, what has been like the most difficult, difficult business transition you've been a part of and how did you overcome it? How did you over— help your client overcome it?

Well, I think the example I shared would be the one that I would want to talk about. The challenge in answering your question is that I wasn't able to help them overcome it. And I think that's kind of the underscore of this tale is that when we run out of time, we run out of options. And most likely they are going to have a liquidation. That's where they're headed. They're gonna close their doors and they're— but here's the thing that's very, very common. You know, we were talking about some statistics earlier. One of the other things that may surprise you and may surprise your listeners is that 8 out of 10 companies in the lower middle market that want to sell don't. So this is a common, common problem. My client that is sort of out of time is because he's retiring. He's not interested in selling anymore. We took it off the market. We had a buyer. The buyer was not a— I'm going to use the word ethical business person. He delayed the transaction to his benefit. Then he retraded on not only lease terms, but he retraded on the offer and he just kept dragging it out, dragging it out, which is a very— I just think his whole process was very unethical. So it wasn't entirely something I could control, right? Which is why I'm hesitating on your question to answer it. But that's the situation, is that unfortunately we can't just continue to keep it on the market because my client is definitely looking to retire.

Yeah. I think a big part of why I wanted to mention that is to just almost highlight, underline that point, which is you have to prepare. Because so many people, we go into these businesses and we're just like, you know, like you said, we're busy, we're building, we're building, we're building, we're building, we're building. And eventually we get to this point where it's like, okay, now we have to transition out. And if you're not prepared for that, the worst things can happen like that. Like, oh, you just have to liquidate and close down and get out. And then you may not have as much money as you would like for retirement and all those other little minutiae of problems that come up. So I just wanted to go back and highlight that a little bit. As far as I wanted to also talk about, we're coming up onto like 45 minutes, so maybe we'll start closing this down a little bit soon. But I wanted just to talk about you as an author and writing the book. How was that process? How did you— why did you want to write a book? Like, why was that the route that you wanted to take? And like, how was that whole process for you?

I think storytelling is really powerful. And sharing my own stories and sharing some clients, you know, masked without the real name stories and these stories from my show Succession Stories podcast. There was a lot of knowledge. There was a big body of knowledge, this corpus, right? This body of knowledge. And how do I ultimately share it? Every show that I do, every podcast that I do has a transcript. So I was starting out with this really wonderful, these wonderful insights. And it became this challenge that I took on to put it in a book because of a variety of reasons. One, I just, I sort of wanted to increase access to this content. Everybody can get so much wonderful content out there, right? We can get videos and we can get, but I hadn't seen a product like this organized the way I wanted to organize it. Which is a combination of things I wanted people, and that's why I called it a handbook for a reason. It's a book, and it, it's 200 pages, and it's pretty beefy. But I set it up so that you're gonna get know-how and knowledge, and you're gonna have stories and case studies that bring it to life. And then at the end of every chapter is a summary of takeaways and a little action planner. And I want you to mark it up. I want you to highlight it. I want you to bend the corners of the paper. It's an important thing to be able to read a book, and I know you guys do this when you read it, you're marking it up like crazy. I wanted to give people the space for that up front. I even tell them how to hack this book. Here it is, right? And I see you. Yeah, you've marked it up. And for my friends out there who like reading it on their Kindle, they can get the book, of course, in print, hardcover, softcover, whatever you prefer. But then I also have it on Kindle. And how do you mark it up on a Kindle? Well, you can't. So I created a digital accompaniment that people can download for free. And I really encourage everyone to do it, even if you have a book and you can get it from my website. And it's every exercise in the book is in this PDF.

It's long.

It's like 40 pages, but it's, you know, I did it this extra step because I care about the reader and ultimately it's the content. And you could read this book and add a couple of zeros to the value of your business. I mean, This is real information. It's not need to know, excuse me, it's not nice to know, it's need to know. You need to know these things and it's kind of a fun read and hopefully you feel like I'm kind of walking with you on your journey is how I wrote it and intended it.

One of our favorite authors, he's a recent guest on the podcast too, Alex Hormozi. He runs acquisition.com. Really interesting business. But what he does, what he tries to do is he gives the information, the secrets away for free, and then he sells the implementation of those secrets because they're not always so easy to implement. And so, I'd like to kind of wrap up a little bit, Lori, with having you tell everybody a little bit more about your business because there could be somebody in the audience today that says, okay, all of this is great. I'm going to read the book. But it sounds like an intimidating process. I don't want to hike the mountain alone. I need a Sherpa. And so what are the main services that you provide?

I provide business transition coaching and advising as well as M&A transactional services. On the pre-M&A, the getting ready side, I coach clients in a process that I've created, which is the strategic transition planning. And that's about 8 months of work together. And now it starts with different assessments and then goal setting. And we talk about what do we need to do to work on your business and not just in your business. And it ends with a written document, which is a strategic plan for your transition. And that sits alongside your business strategic plan. And for, for clients that what I do that work with, I stay on with them on a monthly basis after that to help hold them accountable. The biggest value that my clients get from working with me on the pre-M&A work and the getting ready, the transition work is the clarity and also the accountability. I help hold them accountable to a framework and a process and also my Rolodex. A lot of business owners, they don't know who to call. They don't, you know, they want they want to have a trusted advisor group around them. And so I help assemble that for the folks that are interested in growing through acquisition. They want to acquire companies. I am a certified mergers and acquisitions advisor with Stony Hill and I can work with them on business acquisitions. And then if and when they're ready to sell and we want to bring it to market, again, happy to work with folks on the sell side.

Engagement. Well, I tell you what, I love that. Thanks for, um, thanks for doing that for our listeners and letting them know. And I just want to mention too, because I, I think I told you this, but, uh, Nick just mentioned Alex Hormozi, so I'll bring it up too. This book is very similar to, um, the, the last book that he wrote, and I would say that it's even better because it goes into a lot more detail on how to actually add the value to your business, how to actually scale your business, build it. And like you give everything and you mentioned it, it's, this book is very much an implementation book. It's alive and you can write in it and you can do all the practices in it and all your action stuff that you have in it. It's great. So you did an awesome job on that. I'm glad that you thought about that when you're writing your book because I think so often like people write these books and then it's like, you know, okay, you know, we run into this problem all the time where it's like they write the book, you read the book, and then it's like, well, now what? What do I do? How do I actually implement this? And you're, you're just like, at the end of each chapter, it's like, here's how you implement this. Here's how you implement this. So I appreciate you putting the, putting the time, time into that. Nick, before I ask my final question, did you have anything else that you would like to ask?

No, it's a great first conversation and I look forward to the next episode, but There's so much to unpack and 45 minutes is so limiting, but I think that we got a great introduction to the book. And I think everybody who was on the fence, like, should I buy this? Is Lori a good fit for me? Should I follow her on social media? Like, that decision has been made, so I feel good about it.

Awesome. Okay, so Lori, the last question I'd like to ask is, is this. We know it's, it's actually really fitting too because, um, I start with you pass away. And all your, all your knowledge, everything that you've left behind disappears, every bit of it, but you can leave the world with one single piece of advice. What would it be?

Hmm. Have intentions. Have intentions and live those intentions.

I love that. Simple and succinct. It's true. Have intentions and live them. All right.

Well, Lori, uh, actually, let me add a, let me add a comment on that because this is one of my favorite subjects too. Lori, you'd be surprised how many people I meet and I ask, what are you reading? And they'll say, oh, I'm reading Can't Hurt Me, or I'm reading Atomic Habits. And I'll go, why? What's your intention for the book? And they'll go, what do you mean? So what are you trying to get out of it? Did you write down an intention before you started reading the book? Are you looking for 2 ways to improve your habits that you'll implement by next week? Like, what's the intention? And they'll go, I've never thought of that. Why are you reading the book? Well, I saw it on social media or a friend recommended it. And so it seems kind of funny and goofy when you ask a couple of questions and somebody doesn't have an intention for a book, but it's far more catastrophic if somebody doesn't have an intention for their business. And I would say similar percentages, 9 out of 10 readers don't have an intention for the book they're reading. 9 out of 10 business owners don't have an intention for the business they're running, which is scary and crazy. There's a lot of dollars attached to that. So just a fun little parallel there between the intention piece that you just mentioned.

Yeah, absolutely.

And before we say our final goodbye, for those who are listening, where can they find you? What can they do to learn more about you?

My website is thebusinesstransitionsherpa.com. And you can find my podcast there as well as my book and my speaking engagements. I also do keynote speaking and workshops and would love to connect with people about those. And of course, the coaching and M&A work that I do. And on LinkedIn, I love LinkedIn. You can connect with me there. You could follow me on social, my other socials. I am out there. But please do reach out if people have questions or they want to connect. And these assessments that I mentioned are on my website and available for people to get. as well as the digital download that I mentioned of the digital toolkit to go with the Business Transition Handbook. That little goodie is out there for them.

All right. Well, we appreciate your time so much. Thanks for coming on the show and have a great rest of your, rest of your day.

Awesome. Thanks so much, Luke. Nick, thank you. It was great to be with you.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. It would mean the world to us if you could write a review and share this episode with a few of your friends. I mean, these books truly have the power to change people's lives, and by reviewing or sharing our podcast, you're helping us make an impact. If you have any recommendations for future guests or any constructive feedback for us on how we can improve our show, Please feel free to submit a form on our website, www.bookthinkers.com, or send us a direct message on Instagram @bookthinkers. With that, I am signing off, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Don't forget, go read something.